Tourism Commission

CITY OF CHARLESTON TOURISM COMMISSION August 23, 2017 A meeting of the City of Charleston Tourism Commission was held this date at City Hall, Council Chamber, 80 Broad Street. Notice of this meeting was sent to all local news media. PRESENT Mr. Robert Seidler, Chair, Mrs. Elizabeth Alston, Mrs. Elizabeth Bradham, Mr. Alphonso Brown, Mrs. Lorraine Evans, Mr. Barry Kalinsky, Mr. Ernest Long, Mr. James Saboe, Mr. Richard Stello and Councilmember Gary White, Jr. STAFF: Ms. Davida Allen, Manager, Arts and History Commission/ Tourism Commission, Mr. Tim Domin, Esq, Clawson and Staubes, LLC, Mr. Dan Riccio, Director, City of Charleston Department of Livability and Tourism, Mr. Robert Somerville, Assistant Director, City of Charleston Department of Traffic and Transportation, and Mrs. Amy Southerland, Tourism and Special Events Manager, City of Charleston Department of Livability and Tourism. The meeting was opened with a moment of silence. Approval of Minutes- June 28, 2017 Mrs. Bradham said at the last meeting when she asked if the City had any lawsuits against it involving some of the carriage incidents, Mr. Riccio said no, it’s not possible to sue the City. She noted it’s easy to go the Clerk of Court’s calendar and there is at least one lawsuit against the City. It is currently in mediation. The main defendants are Charleston Carriage Works and the City of Charleston. This suit is currently at an impasse and was in mediation at the last Commission meeting. The City has been and is being sued by people who had been in carriage accidents. Mr. Long moved for approval of the minutes. Mr. Saboe seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously. City Attorney - Tim Domin, Esq. Mr. Domin said he had no business to report Citizen Input Mr. Kurt Taylor of the Charleston Animal Society said on July 25 – 26, they had a visit by Dr. Jane Ivey, who is PhD. equine specialist of the University of Tennessee. They have been discussing the idea of a prospective study of the animals and their environment. She visited them and went away with a much better understanding of the scope of the area where the tours happen, the layout of the medallion station for the animals and things of that nature. The carriage operators were very gracious to allow her to come in and talk to them about their operations. She was very enthusiastic about the possibility that they will one day agree on the conduct of such a study. She enjoyed the visit very much. He said he had copies of her report that he will leave with Chair Seidler. Chair Seidler said Dr. Ivey struck him as someone who has grown up in the equine industry. He said they visited all 5 carriage operations. All of the carriage operators were very gracious. There was a lot of in depth conversation. They were talking the same language about feed, watering and temperatures. He learned a lot about manure control and said that was positive first step. He thanked Mr. Taylor for the copies of the report. COMMITTEE REPORTS Tourism/Livability Report - Mrs. Amy Southerland Mrs. Southerland said the Pilot Program received first reading by City Council and will receive second and final reading at the next City Council meeting.  City of Charleston Tourism Commission August 23, 2017 Page 2 The caution stickers for the carriages were ordered but there were some issues with the adhesive. They were sent back and they should be getting a replacement shipment soon. In reference to the Pilot Program, new medallions have been ordered and should be in soon. Mrs. Southerland distributed the statistics for the Bus Permits and Carriage Tours for June and July of 2016 and 2017. There was an increase in bus permits over last year for the month of June but a decrease in July. For both June and July this year there is a decrease in carriages. 1. Enforcement and City Image a. Code Enforcement – Mr. Dan Riccio, Director, Livability and Tourism Mr. Riccio said an issue was raised regarding the new ordinance pertaining to the readings and the heat index temperature. This has been the first summer that the ordinance has been enacted and actually in play. Overall they were satisfied with the ordinance but he noticed some issues with the readings to allow the carriages to return to the street. It’s 4 consecutive readings of 95° and above or a heat index of 110° or above. The reason it went to 4 readings through the Committee was that when the initial readings of the temperature came in it would be very unstable. The theory was that the 4 consecutive readings would stabilize and it did. The other theory called for 2 consecutive readings to return the carriages to the street. He didn’t think that is working and said they will review it. It might be as simple as requiring 4 readings to put the carriages on the street as it is to remove them from the street. Last week they took the 2 consecutive readings below 95° but by the time the carriages were allowed to resume operations the temperature went back up to 95° and that started the process all over again. Had they had the 4 consecutive readings below 95° in place it would have stabilized within that 45- minute period thus allowing them to keep the carriages off the street longer until the temperature dropped below 95°. He said he will review it at staff level and will keep the Commission updated. He thinks that the 2 consecutive readings to return carriages to the street should be raised to 4 consecutive readings. Chair Seidler asked Mr. Riccio if he anticipated getting any input from those who are impacted by this. Mr. Riccio said lowering the heat index is probably the most priority in changing in this ordinance. The methods they were using were a compromise with the industry, the City and the people on the Committee. He didn’t know if they would have to go that far, that in depth or that intense with the Committee. He thinks it would be more conducive if they evaluate it and show new evidence that it’s better to go to 4 consecutive readings instead of 2 and go from there. Mrs. Alston asked if the two stations where the temperature readings were still in effect. Mr. Riccio said the station on Calhoun Street is no longer exists. It wasn’t measuring accurately. The primary thermometer they use is at the Doubletree Hotel. The secondary thermometer is located at the Dock Street Theater. Mrs. Alston asked if the readings vary. Mr. Riccio said prior to the ordinance change the primary location was the Dock Street Theater. That reading always measured lower. That led to the decision to using the Doubletree Hotel as the hotter temperature to err on the side of the process. When the Committee was formed it was their suggestion to change the location because it always averaged the higher temperature faster. Mr. Brown questioned the impact of closing down the industry when the temperature goes up. He asked if the Commission allowed the industry to increase the number of carriages to make up the quota that was lost. Mr. Riccio said they do not. He noted that so far this year the weather has been mild. They closed them down on Wednesday, July 5. Before he ordered the return to the street because the temperature lowered, the industry decided to stop. Thursday, August 17 was the tipping point that led him to reevaluate the 2 consecutive readings because that was the day they closed them down twice due to the inconsistent temperature readings.  City of Charleston Tourism Commission August 23, 2017 Page 3 Mr. Brown concluded the carriage industry had not said anything about begin compensated for the lost quotas. Mr. Riccio responded the total amount of time lost in the 2 days, unless they voluntarily suspended their operations, was about 3 hours. Mrs. Evans asked if there was any discussion about moving the thermometers down to the street level. Mr. Riccio said that decision would be made by the City’s Information Technology (IT) Department. They handle the location of the thermometer, contacts with the vendor and whoever wants to synchronize with WeatherBug. This is issue is not dead in the water. He hopes to engage in conversation with them to address the concern about the location. There are reasons why we have someone to speak on behalf of internet technology and they can explain why we have to place the thermometer in those locations. In response to a question by Mrs. Evans, Mr. Riccio remarked he could ask Lin Beets, IT Project Manager, to attend the next Commission meeting. He felt there is a good system in place in the ordinance where the industry has to monitor the horses when the ambient temperature reaches 85°. They don’t wait until it is 95°. The staff can look at the industry’s logs to view internal temperatures, rest breaks and pasture breaks for the horses. He was aware of the concerns about the way the industry has the overseeing of all the paper trails as it is frustrating for staff as well. It is one more thing they are examining. Mr. Riccio said they have a lot of work to do with this ordinance and a lot of changes so things will work smoothly. They have looked at record keeping and the responsibility of record keeping through the companies. Last week staff discussed recommending some type of ordinance where they have to submit that information weekly to get a better monitoring system. The ordinance states staff can go there and ask to see the records but there is a lot of work involved in comparing records to other records without taking them. Mrs. Evans questioned the amount of objection to putting the thermometer on the street where the horses function. Mr. Riccio responded IT said through the contract with WeatherBug this is the only feasible location at that height to place the thermometer. He noted the WeatherBug is used throughout the US by multiple government agencies and weather services. It is a validated and dependable system. Chair Seidler asked Mr. Riccio as he began to formulate changes and ideas around managing a cumbersome regulation, would it be appropriate to bring some of those ideas to the Quality of Life Subcommittee so the Commission could get a sense of what is being proposed in terms of changes. Mr. Riccio said yes. The first plan is to meet administratively, see what the options are and go to the next step. He felt while the ordinance is a good ordinance his only concern is the 2 consecutive readings to allow the carriages to return to the street. Mr. Kalinsky asked during the 3 occasions of removing the carriages off the street was there any push back from the carriage drivers. Mr. Riccio said yes. Mr. Kalinsky asked Mr. Riccio to elaborate on the readings. Mr. Riccio said the concern was the amount of time it took to put the horses back in service. Mr. Kalinsky suggested considering a mandatory cooling off period. Mr. Riccio said if he had four consecutive readings to send the horses back to the street he thought they could figure it out. The horses would have a cooling down period and they still have to maintain their horses even though they are not in the street. He understood Mr. Kalinsky’s line of thought but he thinks it will be a simple fix. Quality of Life Subcommittee – Mr. Ernest Long, Chair  City of Charleston Tourism Commission August 23, 2017 Page 4 Mr. Long said he had no report. Routes, Parking and Touring Rules Subcommittee – Robert Seidler, Interim Chair Chair Seidler said while they haven’t met since the last Commission meeting, the item they discussed the most was the proposal by Jeffrey Hill. Mr. Hill was operating Gullah, Gullah Tours and was looking for more visibility working in and out of the Market area. The subcommittee discussed some means to help him do so. Since the last meeting Mr. Hill met with Mr. Somerville, who was able to determine there were a are passenger loading zones couple of parking spaces in and around the Market area where he can drop off or pickup customers. Some tour operators are currently and legally using them now. So there is an opportunity for Mr. Hill to at least travel through the Market to pick up or drop off. The other component of Mr. Hill’s request was a ticket location in the Market area. Chair Seidler said he spoke with Mr. Hill, Anna Harp of the Planning Department, Chuck Richards of Business License, and Barry Newton, manager of the City Market. Mr. Hill’s preference would be to operate out of City Market. There are clear restrictions in the lease agreement that operates the City Market. There is a question about selling tickets in the Market. It is a product market and not a ticket market. It is not so much attraction tickets but preventing or managing timeshare sales. They are also full and oversubscribed so there is not a lot of access available on a consistent basis in the Market. There are situations where people don’t show up and there is a movement by which people get on a waiting list and move up. That wouldn’t give Mr. Hill a consistent point of sale in the Market area. Chair Seidler said he learned from Palmetto carriage that most of their ticket sales are done before the customer gets there. Over half of their ticket sales are by phone or internet. He discussed that with Mr. Hill and he was receptive of it and finding cooperative ticket sales. Mr. Hill has met with John Lavern of Bulldog Tours. Mr. Lavern said while they are both in the tour business they are not competitive. Mr. Lavern is strictly walking tours. There are also options for Mr. Hill to find ticket locations. If he acquires private property with a lease of a year or more it would receive approval. One of the things they talked about was trying to find in the system a ticket location in the Market. That currently exists. Many of the carriage operators were already doing that. Mr. Hill is encouraged that there is access to the Market area and there are a couple of ways to sell tickets in the Market area. He is not entirely satisfied with his exposure in the Visitor Reception Transportation Center but Chair Seidler said he has discussed this with him. Mrs. Evans asked if Mr. Hill has a website. Chair Seidler said he does. Mr. Hill also uses Facebook and Instagram. He is aware that that should be his focus. Tommy Doyle of Palmetto Carriage offered to speak with Mr. Hill about how they manage their ticket sales. Mrs. Alston asked when would the next subcommittee meeting be held. Chair Seidler said it will be after September 9. He will schedule a subcommittee meeting as soon as he gets a better feeling for what the options are. Tour Guide Committee – Mr. Alphonso Brown, Chair Mr. Brown said they discussed the tour guide manual. The old tour guide manual from the 1970s had very little Black history in it. The tour guide test at that time also had nothing about Black history. The new tour guide manual reprinted in 2011 still has very little about Black history. The test is unfair to someone like him who conducts a Black history tour. They can’t seriously discuss this until the case that is pending is over. The subcommittee suggested they correct the situation by using a flash drive and make changes to the manual as soon as the case is over to be fair. They also discussed the recertification for the tour guides. Tour guides have to go through a recertification process every three years. The study programs are very good. People go to them whether they needed the recertification or not. Mrs. Alston said the City of Charleston contracted the Historic Charleston Foundation to oversee the publication of the material. It would be up to that organization to make corrections to the book.  City of Charleston Tourism Commission August 23, 2017 Page 5 Chair Seidler noted it was said in the subcommittee meeting prior to the Commission meeting that if there was ever a time to increase the coverage of the Black community and its contributions to Charleston now would be the time. New Business Ms. Allen introduced Ashley Welsh, a long time tour guide, who has a walking tour company. Ms. Welsh would like to add an all-electric carriage company to her company. The information the Commission members received in a packet meets the requirements of the ordinance. The theme vehicles with everything considered were made prior to 1963. Ms. Welsh is open to changing the vehicle to meet the requirements of whatever the Commission deems fit to be put on the street. Mr. Domin asked Ms. Welsh if this is a private passenger only vehicle. Ms. Welsh said it will be 9 seats along with the driver so it will be smaller. The chassis is that of a registered automobile. It is standard total electric. Mr. Domin concluded that the definition of private passenger automobile is a standard family passenger automobile including a station wagon. It’s not a van or truck sort of vehicle. He asked Ms. Welsh for a description of the vehicle. Ms. Welsh said the size of the vehicle and the dimensions of the vehicle will be that of the Chevy Suburban so you’re not looking at a tour vehicle that’s for 15-passengers but a smaller version of that. It’s not going to be a tour vehicle. It will be along the lines of a Suburban. Mr. Domin asked if this is going to complied with all South Carolina laws for vehicle. Ms. Welsh said yes. They have to have defrost on the windows and it has that. The seats have lap belts. They do not have to have air conditioning but they will have blowers. Chair Seidler concluded Ms. Welsh would be taking a classic car and converting it to electric. Ms. Welsh said no. The original vehicle is technically a 1900 brass era that has been modified to a post 1964 style shown in the information distributed to the Commission. Everything will be new. They are not going with anything that has been used on another vehicle. It will be built from the ground up with a new chassis and other materials. Mrs. Evans surmised they were going to build a car. Ms. Welsh said they have one built but it is like a 1900 style so they have to change it to emulate a vintage car. They are set up in Savannah. They contracted with the manufacturer in Detroit to design it. They have a proprietary who has all the facts for the powertrain and the electrical components. She noted there are balance and weight issues that you have to go with so you have a chassis that is measured to keep in compliance. Mrs. Bradham remarked the man who built the ones in Detroit essentially can convert an existing wagon to this type of vehicle for about $14,000.  City of Charleston Tourism Commission August 23, 2017 Page 6 Chair Seidler asked if this is along these lines and is this more along the lines Ms. Welsh might considering. Ms. Welsh said yes and they can do that as well if that would be preferred. Mr. Riccio asked if this is going to be closed in. Ms. Welsh said no. It is an open air vehicle convertible top. Mr. Riccio questioned how she is going give a tour. Ms. Welsh said they will be facing forward. They are much smaller, can talk louder and they are not dealing with 16 people. Mr. Riccio asked Ms. Welsh if she was going to use any amplification system and he asked Mr. Domin would this fit the guidelines of the ordinance for a theme vehicle. In response to Mr. Riccio’s question, Ms. Welsh said if it was a carriage, yes. Mrs. Evans questioned why Ms. Welsh couldn’t use a system like they do on the bus tours. Ms. Welsh said if style is an issue they think that’s problematic and will interrupt the quality of the tour. Mr. Domin said in looking at the theme vehicle, it can’t resemble something manufactured prior to 1963 as a theme vehicle. He asked Mr. Riccio if this was consistent with what he understood about it. Mr. Riccio said yes. He noted his first thought was the amplification. He wasn’t against it. He was saying not to go too far into something that you can’t back out of because (1) you can’t use an amplifier or speaker box on that type of vehicle, and (2) the vehicle type falls under the category of theme vehicles. Ms. Welsh said her proposal is for the 1964 Packard style/ Rolls Royce style body. She thinks it classy and nostalgic. She wasn’t here to disparage the carriage tours. The people who worked there were her friends. She wanted to offer something that is different and unique. They were not monopolizing on their business. The first electric carriage was a converted carriage. Mr. Domin said the 1964 vehicle does not seem to meet the definition of a theme vehicle in that regard as long as it’s a street vehicle it would seeming comply with the current vehicle standard. Councilmember White said the whole premise around the theme vehicle is to insure that Charleston doesn’t look like Disney World. In reality, if you open Pandora’s box with one and you’re successful, there will be 50 on the street within a week and a half. Although it may not meet the letter of the law from a theme vehicle standpoint, he would not support something like this on the streets of Charleston. If she wanted to do a smaller bus that was electric that fit the parameters of what the bus tours do, if the eco component is what’s important to her, he would be more inclined to support it. But going with something that sort of stands out, and he believes it’s a sort of a slippery slope to starting to make the city look too much like a theme park, he didn’t think he would have an interest in supporting it. Ms. Welsh said there are open air electric buses are that look like a golf cart or a shuttle but to her that looks like they are going from the parking lot to Disneyworld versus this is Charleston. Councilmember White said a number of people over the years came forth with a lot of different ideas that such as tug tubs and the bicycle bar, both of which the Commission passed on and they ended up in New Orleans and Savannah. To ensure they are maintaining the charm and character of the city, they had to be very careful getting too far ahead themselves and the premise of the theme vehicle is to eliminate that. While the electric carriage may meet the letter of the law, it needs to also meet the intent. The intent is to ensure we don’t find ourselves looking like Disneyworld. Chair Seidler said when the vehicle becomes the marketing tool he thinks that is the slippery slope. Ms. Welsh concluded if she bought a 2018 Town Car and made it larger that would be acceptable. She asked if would be OK if it’s a convertible.  City of Charleston Tourism Commission August 23, 2017 Page 7 Mr. Domin said assuming the vehicle is either a passenger or a vehicle of a family passenger type, including a station wagon, not a truck or a van. In response to a question by Mr. Brown regarding if the Commission would be held liable in a lawsuit for not allowing Ms. Welsh to business, Mr. Domin said there’s not a general lawsuit category for stopping someone from doing business. If the Commission has reasonable criteria and they find in a fair manner, then they are allowed to do that. Since these criteria has been in place for quite some time he would say Mr. Brown should not give much consideration to being sued in a lawsuit over these criteria. He suggested they follow the ordinance. In reference to Councilmember White’s comments, Mrs. Bradham commented there’s isn’t anything more anachronistic than people driving around carriages, which are an eighteenth century conveyance. She felt this vehicle is much more 21st century in all aspects than what we have on the streets now. She thinks this is the wave of the future and not to worry about Disneyland as that ship has already sailed given the horse carriages are on the street. Ms. Welsh thanked the Commission for their time. Mr. Brown asked if the Commission approves it could they regulate it like the vehicles on the highway are regulated. Mr. Domin assumed if they are passing it as a private passenger vehicle, they are deciding it’s not a theme vehicle. He said that’s tricky in that it’s partially a legal determination but they are coming before the Commission for a certificate of appropriateness and approval. Responding to Chair Seidler’s remark that a theme vehicle’s threshold is 1964 or later, Mr. Domin said that’s not the only threshold. He said that because if that was only a regular vehicle. Ms. Welsh was correct when she said she could get a 2017 Suburban and get into a touring vehicle of some type. A theme vehicle also “… displays a subject or topic of discourse over artistic representation, possesses a theme park-like experience, or is manufactured prior to 1963 or any replica thereof but not limited to trolley, stagecoaches, double-decker buses or replicas thereof.” It’s not just 1963. If it has what they consider a theme park appearance, that would be prohibited as a theme vehicle. In response to a comment by Chair Seidler, Ms. Allen said you’re want permission to tour and it would be considered your personal vehicle, one could just get a placard to place inside the vehicle, and not necessarily a certificate of appropriateness where you would place a sticker on the back of your vehicle to where you would be leaving out of a certain place to pick up your customers. Chair Seidler asked if this would operate out of the Visitor Center. Ms. Allen said no. Councilmember White surmised this would be a new category. Ms. Allen said no. This would be your personal vehicle. It’s not a certificate of appropriateness. Councilmember White said if we allow for it, it doesn’t go toward that allocation. Ms. Allen said yes. Councilmember White concluded this does become a new group of touring vehicles. Ms. Allen said yes. Mr. Domin asked to anyone’s knowledge, was there anyone doing private passenger vehicle tours. Ms. Allen said yes. There are about 4 or 5 individuals. She added many uber drivers are wanting to become tour guides so they can use their personal vehicles to transport and give tours. Mrs. Alston said the only difference with this application would be vintage car concept or the non- gas consumption. Ms. Allen said yes, it being electric and considered a theme vehicle. Mr. Kalinsky said he has seen cars like this that are available for hire. He said it’s a private passenger vehicle that someone has some kind of limousine license for it. He questioned how would this be different.  City of Charleston Tourism Commission August 23, 2017 Page 8 Councilmember White said it was giving tours versus not giving tours. Ms. Allen concurred. Mr. Kalinsky said this is available for hire right now so why would it be in violation of the law or statute to have someone with an accredited tour guide riding along the streets of Charleston. He said he could hire a tour guide to take him in his car and give him a tour. Ms. Evans added it’s the same way you would hire a walking tour guide. Chair Seidler said that was occurring now where people were doing motorized tours. It’s just in their private Lincolns or Cadillacs. He said Ms. Welsh’s twist is a more vintage look to the vehicle and it’s going to be electric. Mr. Domin said the question is what regulation will we have. There is virtually no regulation of private passenger owned vehicle tours. Chapter 29, Article 4, Division 2 – Private Passenger Automobiles states there are no route limitations on private passenger vehicles, insurance is required and passenger loading and parking areas only need to comply with the ordinance of the City in terms of statute regulating general traffic with the provisions of Article 6 in Chapter 29. Chair Seidler added Section 29-93 states “No certificate of appropriateness shall be required for private passenger automobiles.” Mr. Domin said there is perhaps an intent when they talk about private passenger automobiles they are talking about a normal vehicle that someone purchased or late model. This is a vehicle that is standard vehicle. You know it complies with all the safety requirements of a vehicle. There is nothing to prevent someone from building a car of their own and getting it certified. He was not certain if that was meant when is said “private passenger vehicle” of an ordinary passenger type. He said to him the question is it really a private passenger vehicle or is it a theme vehicle. Mrs. Bradham left the meeting at 6:04 p.m. Responding to a question regarding the definition of a theme vehicle, Mr. Domin cited Section 29- 2. Definitions -Theme Vehicles: “Theme vehicles shall mean any motorized vehicle which displays a subject or topic of discourse or of artistic representation, possesses a theme park-like appearance, or is manufactured prior to 1963 or any replica thereof including but not limited to trolleys, stagecoaches, double-decker buses or replicas thereof.” Mr. Domin said a lot of these that were shown in the package of an electric coach would seemingly be by definition a theme vehicle as well as some of these earlier replicas would be theme vehicles by definition. You have to determine whether this is a true private passenger automobile. He then cited the definition for private passenger automobile: “Private passenger automobile shall mean a standard family passenger automobile, including a station wagon, used for the purpose of touring, and shall not include a van, panel truck or other vehicle.” Is this a standard family passenger automobile is really the question. He was not certain he knew what this is. It’s something that looks like a Rolls Royce. It’s not made by Rolls Royce. It’s just a Rolls Royce style. Ms. Walsh said that was correct. That’s really why she got a 1966 with an electric powertrain. Mr. Domin said could it be 1966 if you put in an electric powertrain. He said the standard criteria is if it’s a standard passenger family vehicle. He added if they weren’t comfortable with it, they could study it further. Councilmember White said talking about the intent is the important part. The ordinance intends to eliminate or be clear as to what they want or don’t want on the street. The intent is a standard family vehicle like they have in their driveway. He didn’t think anyone had one of those vehicles in their driveway. He said if they were trying to figure out in their minds what’s the test to determine a standard family vehicle ask themselves if they knew anyone who owned one of those or anything in the packet. The answer is probably no or if they do it’s been something that’s bought in probably a sort of a collection. It’s not intended to be a true standard family useful vehicle. In his  City of Charleston Tourism Commission August 23, 2017 Page 9 mind, everything that has been identified is a theme vehicle but he thinks the intent to do something electric and eco –friendly is great if you can find some way to do it within the parameters of the standard family vehicle. Mrs. Alston called for the question. Chair Seidler said the motion would be to accept this vehicle for Ashley Welsh to operate a tour vehicle. Mr. Domin asked that any motion has to be subject to a disclosure of all the information about the manufacturer, understand what kind of vehicle this really is and whether it meets that definition of the private passenger automobile. He was thinking about safety issues and what things might be required and found in a standard passenger automobile versus what might be found in this kind of vehicle. He wanted to make certain that if the Commission is inclined to pass it that there is still that early review. He also wanted to make certain that when they get the specs it is something the Legal Department would consider being a private passenger automobile. Mrs. Alston said she would be satisfied with that legal perspective based on the legality so it won’t come back to bite them. She moved for deferral until the Commission receives legal advice on information about the specifications and that it can be determined it’s a private passenger vehicle. Mrs. Evans seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously. Chair Seidler said Mr. Long will schedule a meeting when they receive some information from Mr. Riccio’s office for Quality of Life Subcommittee. Mr. Kalinsky said he spent a lot of time downtown and was concerned about security. There are many homeless people who are very aggressive in the downtown area. He asked to have someone from the police department or livability to let them know what can be done about that. Chair Seidler suggested contacting Lt. King in reference to Mr. Kalinsky’s request. The Quality of Life Subcommittee will meet before the next Commission meeting to discuss what’s going to come out of Mr. Riccio’s office. A Routes, Parking and Touring Rules Subcommittee will be held when they get more information on Jeffrey Hill’s proposal before the next Commission meeting. There being no further business to discuss, the meeting was adjourned at 6:12 p.m. Marcia L. Grant Council Secretary