Ad Hoc Facilities Committee
Regular MeetingGreen Bay, WI · November 15, 2022
Minutes
MINUTES OF THE AD HOC FACILITIES
COMMITTEE
TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 15, 2022, 11:00 AM
Room 310
A. ROLL CALL.
Present: Brian Johnson, Eric Genrich, Garritt Bader, Chet Lamers, Paul Martzke, Ian Griffiths, Jesse
Sharp (arrived late at 11:07am)
Also present: Assistant City Engineer-Special Projects Trista Hobbs, Police Chief Chris Davis, Finance
Director Diana Ellenbecker, Municipal Judge Jonathan Gigot, Chief of Operations Joe Faulds and
Assistant Finance Director Pam Manley
B. APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA.
Moved by Paul Martzke, seconded by Ald. Brian Johnson to amend the agenda to reflect the correct
date on the approval of minutes.
Motion Passed.
Yes- Eric Genrich, Brian Johnson, Garritt Bader, Chet Lamers, Ian Griffiths, Paul Martzke
Moved by Mayor Eric Genrich, seconded by Ian Griffiths to approve as amended.
Motion Passed.
Yes- Eric Genrich, Brian Johnson, Garritt Bader, Chet Lamers, Ian Griffiths, Paul Martzke
C. APPROVAL OF MINUTES.
1. Approval of the Ad Hoc Facilities Committee minutes from the February 21, 2022 meeting.
Moved by Paul Martzke, seconded by Garritt Bader to approve the minutes from the February 21,
2022 meeting.
Motion Passed.
Yes- Eric Genrich, Brian Johnson, Garritt Bader, Chet Lamers, Ian Griffiths, Paul Martzke
D. REGULAR BUSINESS.
1. Consideration with possible action the review of the Facilities Assessment Updates for City Hall,
Municipal Court, Police Station, and Fire Station #1.
Moved by Mayor Eric Genrich, seconded by Board Member Jesse Sharp to direct Finance staff to
work with BSA on the total cost of the deficient and critical needs listed in the report.
Motion Passed.
Yes- Eric Genrich, Brian Johnson, Jesse Sharp, Garritt Bader, Chet Lamers, Paul Martzke, No- None,
Abstain- Ian Griffiths.
Moved by Garritt Bader, seconded by Board Member Jesse Sharp to proceed with BSA for a flow
review not to exceed $30,000 and direct staff to find funding or bring it back to the Finance
Committee.
Motion Passed.
Yes- Eric Genrich, Brian Johnson, Jesse Sharp, Garritt Bader, Chet Lamers, Paul Martzke, No- None,
Abstain- Ian Griffiths.
E. ADJOURNMENT.
Moved by Garritt Bader, seconded by Mayor Eric Genrich to adjourn.
Motion Passed.
Yes- Eric Genrich, Brian Johnson, Jesse Sharp, Garritt Bader, Chet Lamers, Ian Griffiths, Paul
Martzke, No- None, Abstain- None.
F. VERBATIM MINUTES.
- [Pam] It should be good.
- Okay. All set?
- Yes.
- Okay. All right. We'll call this meeting to order, the Ad Hoc Facilities Committee at 11:03 AM. Roll
call. I don't have a list of all the members, so if I could just have everybody go around the table and
say your name.
- Sure. Ian Griffiths, Berners Schober Associates.
- Paul Martzke.
- Garritt Bader.
- Chet Lamers.
- Eric Genrich.
- And Brian Johnson. Alder Galvin is excused, and I believe Jesse will be arriving shortly.
- [Diana] Mm hm.
- I would entertain a motion to approve the agenda.
- So moved.
- Second.
- Motion by-
- Discussion? There's a typo in the agenda.
- [Diana] Okay.
- We're looking at C1 is Approval of the Committee Minutes from the February 21st, 2022 meeting.
- Okay. I'll second that amendment. Any discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor say aye?
- [Committee Members] Aye.
- Opposed? Motion carries. Back to the original motion, which we have Genrich and then Griffith?
- Griffiths.
- Right, with an S. Yep. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor say aye?
- [Committee Members] Aye.
- Opposed? Motion carries. Item C, Approval of Minutes. Any discussion? Otherwise we'll ask for a
motion.
- So moved.
- Second.
- A motion by Martzke, second by Bader. Any discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor say aye?
- [Committee Members] Aye.
- Opposed? Motion carries. Item D, Regular Business. Item number one, consideration with possible
action on review the facilities assessment updates for City Hall, Municipal Court, Police Station, and
Fire Station Number 1. I'm gonna bring up just the first item that the Mayor and I spoke about
yesterday. And I think we both were under the assumption that Fire Station 3 was also gonna be
included. And so it sounds like there was maybe a miscommunication on that, it wasn't reflected in
the minutes, but sort of this assumption that it was happening. So Ian, I'm just gonna ask you, what
would it take, maybe even broadly, more for the committee. One, do we need an assessment of Fire
Station 3? And then if so, how quickly could we turn that around? And the reason I ask the question,
do we need it? And I'm just gonna give a little bit of background info on this. The City Council has
pretty much already authorized using ARPA funds to do a report on site selection for a new fire
station. We've also set a million dollars aside with that same ARPA bucket for land acquisition and
maybe some other consulting costs that go along with that.
- Yep.
- So if Council is kind of already operating under the assumption that we're building a fire station, do
we need to do an assessment of-
- Three is which one?
- Three is West High School?
- Shawano Avenue, yeah.
- Okay.
- Yeah.
- I don't know of what's been done there, if anything, in the last five to seven years. We had the
report from seven years ago. I don't recall us doing any work there. So if it is, it's probably pretty
minor. So I'm guessing there's no significant update on that. But I can double check, but.
- Yeah.
- It's not gonna take a lot.
- Yeah, there seems to be a consensus amongst Council that that station has exhausted its useful life
and it's being replaced. And that's why I asked. Do we even waste the money and time to do the
report? And I'm certainly open to committee feedback on that.
- Why don't I take a look and just see if there's anything in our files that has been an update to it that
might warrant an updated thing. But if not, then we'll-
- Okay. Yeah, and there's, what we're trying to accomplish I think with this committee is a couple of
things. One is of course facility existing condition report and then understanding what our costs are
and what we need to be bonding for the next maybe three to five years as part of our capital
improvement plan. But then the other piece is if in fact a new facility is warranted in any of these
instances, that we can account for that too.
- Yep.
- But when you look at something like Police Department, for example, it needs a new roof whether
you're using it for a different purpose or not.
- Right.
- So that piece to me is just kind of a little bit of a different assessment. And I would look at Station 3
the same way. If it's gonna be torn down, that's one thing, but if it's gonna be repurposed and it needs
a new roof, it needs a new roof. You're not losing the value.
- Okay. So you're gonna check into, Ian, how long it would take to do that?
- Give me by the end of the week and I can get you an assessment by the end of the week.
- Okay.
- Great.
- Okay, so with that sort of elephant out of the room, how do you guys want to proceed with this?
Just kind of take up report by report? That'd be the most efficient way. In which case then we'll start
with, we'll start with City Hall. Hi, Jesse, how are you?
- Sorry I'm late.
- What's that? Anyone interested in it?
- Trista, would you just be able to give an overview of the assessments?
- Sure.
- Just kind of walk us through.
- Do you want to come up here, or would you be more comfortable. Up to you guys?
- Yeah, maybe just at the table.
- Maybe, Trista, for the benefit of the whole committee, just introduce yourself and your role.
- All right. My name is Trista Hobbs. I'm Assistant City Engineer for the Special Projects Group, here
in DPW. What my small group does is we oversee capital improvements projects for all of the other
departments, as well as we oversee our bridges, parking ramps, and the city's requirements at
Lambeau Field. So I work a lot with Berners Schober on a lot of our facilities upgrades. My initial
overview of these is for not just these four buildings, but all of our city facilities, and primarily with
HVAC upgrades. And I think that was pretty evident in these four reports. And that's a substantial
cost. Aside from what's in these reports, the one thing I did want to say that these reports do and
don't do is that what these reports do is it gives you a snapshot in time of what those facilities are
right now, with their current use, their current layout, the current structure. What it doesn't do is
take into, and it's no fault of BSA, 'cause that's not what they were asked to do, but what it doesn't
do is it doesn't take into account space needs or regulatory, outside of building code, any regulatory
requirements that may be expenditures for the departments.
- Okay. Appreciate that. I know we have Chief Davis here. And I go to that space needs assessment,
and I don't know, Mayor, City Hall probably hasn't fundamentally changed too much. Fire station, we
know what their needs are. But I wonder, Chief Davis, could you perhaps maybe speak to space
needs? 'Cause we've got obviously the technical reports here on what repairs need, but could you
speak to space needs a little bit?
- Sure. And in our organization, the current facility really does not meet our space needs. We have
adapted it over the years to get as close as we can, but we have issues with women's locker room
space in particular. We do have some evidence storage issues because we have an offsite facility that
we're in the process of trying to find a replacement for. But really it's not, we suffer from two
problems when it comes to space. It's the lack of enough space just for the number of people we
have using the facility, and the way space is allocated in the building, if that makes sense. Modern
police facilities, you try to have common areas for people to kind of congregate in and have that
natural talking about cases or neighborhood problems or those kind of things among employees.
Also, you want to try to have some public space, which we really don't have. We have adapted a
room on the second floor of our facility that serves as a kind of community room sometimes, which
creates problems because now we have to bring people into the secure area of the building. It
violates rules for criminal justice information systems. And we've been graded down on our audits
sometimes for that because of that. We have units that are teams of people who are spread out
physically throughout the building. So for example, my operations commander has an office on the
second floor, next door to one of his captains, but his other captain is on a different floor in a
different part of the building. So we have people spread out that normally you would want to try to
have together. It really just, so it's both of those issues with our facility, if that makes sense.
- Mm hm.
- Okay.
- And the thing that, I think those are comments are all really well made. The thing that jumped out
to me, though, when looking at the Police Station needs assessment was in comparison to a new
public safety building, how small these costs are, $1.2 million, that might actually include some of the
work that's being done on the roof right now. So that number might actually be a bit lower. I think
it's been a disservice in some respects to the Police Department to have this huge public safety
discussion ongoing and not enough attention being paid for the quality of the existing structure. And
so I would just, I'd love to hear the committee's thoughts on that, reaction to the assessment itself,
and just generally speaking, what people think about identifying especially what those critical needs
are within the next one to three years and just taking care of them, and then also making space for
this discussion about how we can better purpose the facility that we have right now.
- Mm hm.
- Yeah, and I, to piggy back on that, Mayor, I know that's been, I've had a little bit of angst about
approving some of these significant requests for City Hall in particular for similar reasons. I wanted to
kind of go through this process and understand, gosh, if we're gonna stick $10 million into City Hall,
is there another option?
- Mm hm.
- And especially if you were to, in a hypothetical scenario, I have a developer take this building over
and renovate it. Are we kind of throwing good money after a bad purpose if it's gonna be used
differently? Not to say that that would be the end game, but right now I think at this point it's
understanding all options and what makes the most sense for the City of Green Bay. And I think this
report really helps us start that.
- Well, it gives you a starting point as to what your immediate needs are. Things that should have
been addressed over time. And I realize that the city's under budget concerns and discussions and
that's what been happening for years, and that's why we're in this position. So kudos to the city for
taking a look at this holistically and saying what should we do? Instead of just band-aiding and not
band-aiding.
- Does anybody have the information on the study that was done for the Police Station that was
commissioned a couple of years ago? And I don't think that was-
- Right.
- Yeah, given to us. Do we know the size of the new facility that was recommended and what their
probable cost was at that time?
- Wasn't that probable cost like around $50 million?
- I thought it was 35, is the number I had in my head.
- I had sixties.
- Yeah.
- It was a big number, I remember that. It might be 50 now though.
- That was about five years ago at this point I think.
- What might be more important is, is just the number of square feet that they recommended for a
new facility. Because one way of looking at this is simply saying the current condition report that we
have for the Police Department says that they need $1.2 million in facility upgrades and that current
facility is 42,000 square feet plus the garage. So you could extrapolate what a new facility would cost.
But if it's the new facility is budgeted to be a much larger building, we need to kind of know what that
is to make that comparison.
- Yeah.
- [Garritt] That 1.2 million does not include any cost of expansion, correct?
- No.
- That's purely-
- It's purely maintenance.
- [Garritt] Making the existing facility.
- That's correct.
- [Garritt] So I think, in the context of what we talked about, that's probably, it's a good number to
know, but it's not probably inclusive of everything that the Chief just discussed what ideally would be
desired.
- Yeah, I think timing's an important discussion of what we're here to do as well. So if we could say,
look, it's not practical for us to consider a new police station for five years, I'm making that up.
- Mm hm.
- What are the repairs we should do in the next five years then, and how can we put together the
plan for everything? I think that's ultimately what I'd like to see, not necessarily today, but out of this
committee, is to be able to make a really informed recommendation to full council about when things
happen and then what should happen in the interim.
- [Diana] I believe in the packet back in February, we did have all the Bray Architects' information,
and then they're the ones who had come and done the space needs of analysis for the police station
and to get some site selection. So I could go back and try to look at that. It's our February packet. It
was a very big one also. That included the Bray information, so we could research that again.
- Yeah. And the other thing that's gonna get kind of directed back to this committee as well, that sort
of site selector for the fire station. I did make a request that that report come back to this
committee. So as we start thinking about Stations 1 and 3, and what you do with that, I think the
intent of the Fire Department is to want to merge those two stations into that new station so the
administration will become part of Station 3. Unfortunately, because of, I don't want to say
unfortunate, but there were certain members of council that kind of wanted to really accelerate that
discussion. I would've preferred to have been able to at least contemplate what does a merged
department look like from a facility perspective? I just didn't get the sense that that was gonna be an
option. So I share that with you because, of course, that report is happening right now, and will be
back at this committee when it's done.
- [Garritt] What's the timing on that?
- I don't know if we've got a recent update from Chief Litton, but I know it's ongoing right now. They
were sharing some GIS information from our IT Department with the consultant. So I would imagine
within the next month or so.
- Then she'll be-
- Or hopefully so.
- Yeah.
- Mm hm.
- Is it safe to assume that the Fire Department's plans are separate from City Hall, Police
Department, Municipal Court?
- Well, I don't think that was initially the intent. And that's what I mean, I think, there was a majority
of council that kind of put the cart before the horse and said, you know what, we've already made the
decision we're getting a new fire station, and immediately jumped to how are we gonna pay for it?
And we're gonna order this report and we're gonna go buy the site. I really wanted this committee to
have the opportunity to assess our existing facilities and then make a recommendation. But that's just
the order it's happening. So, politics.
- [Diana] Alder Johnson, I do have the reports from back in February, the ones that were actually
completed in 2017. So if you want some that information, I have it. But.
- Do you have the-
- [Diana] They originally said that the current, the existing facility, original construction, 1968,
approximately 55,500 square feet, in two stories plus a basement. Existing site, it's two acres, about
140 stalls. And what they were looking for was they were looking to go, the building area, they
wanted 135,000 square feet, with a 80,000 square foot footprint on first floor. This acreage of course
stayed the same. And at that time they were looking at cost of 34.4 to 38,000 and that was without
acquisition costs.
- Hm.
- Really.
- They do, 34 to 38 million without acquisition costs.
- Two and a half times the square footage. Is that right?
- [Diana] Yes, at over 55,000 they were looking to go to a building area of 135, with a 80,000 square
foot.
- I'll bet you there's indoor parking.
- Did that assume that the existing building was kept or is that the existing building was discarded?
- [Diana] That was not assuming the same building.
- And the only thing that I would say in response to that, and I think Director Ellenbecker can
probably reinforce this, but the Finance Department was not included in those discussions back then.
So it was really sort of a blue sky process, in the sense of like in an ideal world, what could our police
station look like? Not given our fiscal constraints, what should our police station look like? And so I
think it's the latter process that we really want to have this time around.
- [Garritt] Well, and quite frankly, whether the existing building can be reused at all? And if it can,
that totally changes the nature of looking at needs versus layout versus how much you have to build
new versus how much you can renovate. The cost could be notably lower than that.
- And just to confirm what the Mayor said, I think what happened, and this was in 2017, and I think
the day they knocked on my door saying, "Hey, we found a site, can I have a million dollars to buy a
site for a public safety building?" I'm like, "What are we doing and where are you gonna pay for the
building? You want $40 million?" So it did kind of get stalled out at that point. And like I said, I think it
was the team that said what they wanted but at that point they had not provided the Finance team
and figured out how we were gonna pay for it.
- Which is kind of why we reset this committee in the way that we did, to bring in more perspectives
and more city departments.
- [Garritt] So am I fair, in assuming, that when we first started doing this, the thought really was that
police station was kind of driving the whole discussion here, right? Like that was the most critical
urgent unit?
- Police and the $10 million that was estimated by the Parks Department for City Hall maintenance,
Those two things. But then we added Fire-
- We're talking, were you asking about?
- February.
- Okay.
- Yeah. But then we added fire, recognizing that there were some imminent needs there as well. And
that's, I think, where we're still at, is Police, Fire Station 1, Station 3, and then really Municipal Court
is in this conversation too, because if there's a consolidation opportunity, particularly in the existing
site, of the Police Department, Muni Court, it made sense to kind of lump them into this discussion.
- What is the utilization of City Hall, in terms of the amount of square footage you have versus the
amount of City Hall that's utilized? Is it 100%?
- I would say it's the vast majority, with the exception of fourth floor, which is where IT Department
is located, and there's also a dance room. That is used for some programming but not consistently.
We're also in the process of scanning a bunch of documents that are currently stored on fourth
floor. So there will be additional square footage opened up once that project is completed. So it's
essentially every floor with the exception of four.
- Maybe 80%.
- Yeah.
- Mm hm. And even then you think about, the city is in a rare situation where we're actually growing
compared to others.
- Right.
- So if you start to think about, okay, 50 years from now, what are our needs? So how do we even
begin... and Ian, I'm looking at you in particular, as someone who kind of does this for a living.
- Mm hm.
- Do you have any thoughts or suggestions on how you crack this egg?
- I think you do need to have a utilization study of your existing buildings and how are they utilized?
'Cause that is gonna inform you. This is the tangible piece, right?
- Mm hm.
- You need air into the room, you have to meet code, all of the stuff that you have to do. Does it
have to be in this building? Is the building appropriate for its needs today? The building is solid. It's
built.
- [Garritt] Are you talking about City Hall?
- Yeah.
- It's City Hall, all right.
- A lot of the buildings that you have, Building 57 has served the city very well. But is that how we do
business today? That's the question I think for all of these facilities, is how do we do business today
and can we do business for tomorrow in yesterday's facilities?
- Mm hm. And I think that same question applies to Chief, and I think that question is,, in a sense,
already been answered for Fire.
- Right.
- So I don't think we necessarily have to worry about that until the report comes back. But in the
meantime, how do we handle City Hall and the Police Department?
- And what do people think of really just addressing all the critical needs that are highlighted in this
report? I don't have all of them right in front of me here, but just scrolling through them when the
report was made available to us and then scrolling through some of it again today, it's not a very
daunting number, just in that critical needs column. Right?
- Yeah. And I think there's gonna have to be critical needs that are met, because even in the best case
scenario, you could be looking how many years out, right? Five years out to pull together a large scale
project, if that's what's warranted.
- If you're gonna put a new mechanical system in your building or a new electrical system in your
building, you're gonna want to utilize it for as long as you can to get that return on investment,
obviously.
- Mm hm.
- What you have right now has served you very well, but if the panel downstairs decides to blow a
significant breaker tomorrow, you might not have power for weeks. You're kinda living on the edge
of, it may not be imminent today, but by tomorrow afternoon it may be. So I think there are things
that need to be looked at, what are immediate but what might be immediate, and then how large is
that? Because there's no point in spending, the updates to the mechanical systems for City Hall if you
choose not to be in the building five years from now. 'Cause whatever the building becomes probably
won't need that same mechanical system.
- Mm hm.
- In my opinion, I would think some sort of study or discussion needs to happen with understanding
the current needs as has been outlined, how that ties into, I think hearing that and looking at this, you
clearly do an addition of some kind. I don't think it means though that you couldn't reuse the existing
building in some fashion. Do you put money in the bathrooms all at, the thing right now of,
bathrooms move, if the bathrooms get expanded to a new part of the building where you're
incorporating both male female counterparts and that sort of thing. That's why I would hesitate doing
that now. But, to the degree that that review could be done sooner rather than later, to the Mayor's
point, this is not a daunting number. If you can put pencil to paper, though, on what that addition cost
likely is, and then have your whole Police Department range on it, that part to me seems like a very
easy part to address and get going on sooner rather than later.
- I don't know, in the Bray report, how much conversation there was around new versus existing or
what the request of Bray was at the time. I'm just scrolling through the piece trying to refresh myself
from February. There's-
- It seems very idealistic.
- Yeah, right. I mean it's, this would be great.
- Right.
- Yeah.
- But how we gonna get there? And do we really need to be there? Is this what Green Bay needs?
- And to maybe kind of throw another thing into this discussion to complicate it, but obviously we
have departments right now that are submitting their capital improvement plans for consideration
when we go through the next bonding cycle and there are some things in there where we're gonna
have to make decisions. I know there are a number of things related to City Hall. I know, Chief,
you've got some things in there related to locker room renovations. Do we renovate the locker
rooms in the next bonding cycle or do we wait and figure some of this out? So I want to make sure
that we're not spending money that's just gonna get ripped out.
- Right.
- [Garritt] If we were to, just to put these guys on the spot here for a second, if we were to say
today, yes, okay, a revised study and sit down with police personnel and the chief to say, "What
square footage wise is needed today?" And then to figure out how that's incorporated with the
current envelope in a new addition. Here on November 15th, what would be a timeframe to do that,
to have a result back, and have something that's actionable again?
- 90 days at least. I think if you sit down with each of the departments to get a real sense as to what's
working and what's not, from their perspective. We know what it is from our perspective. By the
time you get that, do some schematic layouts, to say okay yeah we need x number of square feet
addition and we need to house this many vehicles, we need to increase the size of the lot by taking
over the next city block or we can fit it within the perimeter of what we have. I think there are
elements of that. Once we have that, then getting a number to associate with it isn't gonna take a
tremendous amount of time, but it'll probably take all of 90 days to come back with a thorough
enough report that everybody's comfortable and we don't have just kind of pie in the sky. Which I
think is what you're asking, I think.
- Yeah. I'd like to see that. I don't know if there are funds reserved already to be able to do
something like that. And I don't know what the cost would be. But in terms of the timing to at least
sit down, and the Chief, I think brought it up best when he said flow. And that's what, none of us I
think really talked about the flow of the existing and then flow of what the new would be, and what
needs to be in what part, functionally, close together to work? But that, kind of said like that, I think
would tell us that answer. I think we'd be surprised by the relatively low number.
- Mm hm. I think City Hall flow is a really important conversation too. And and how do we interface
with our residents, our customers, to create a positive experience for them? Because I don't know
that exists right now. And it's just because of the design.
- Mm hm. Right.
- So Diana, I'm gonna ask you a question, because we were using I think some old borrowed money
to do this report. What kind of a balance do we have left on that?
- [Diana] Just looking at it right now, I believe we borrowed 40,000. We had ended up spending
about 6,000 on that and leaving us with a balance, I think when we met last time there was about
34,000. If I'm not mist-
- [Pam] I don't think you have the second. There were two invoices.
- [Diana] Okay, then there was 13,000 I know came through from BSA. And then you're saying there
was additional expenses, Pam, are you seeing?
- [Pam] I want to say the report, this was 25.
- [Diana] Okay. I remember Steve saying something about 16 and then 7,388. So in total this was a
24,000, this information was 24,000. We had a balance I think of 34 and change. I would say at this
point money's still available without going anywhere else. We have just over $10,000 available yet to
do some additional study.
- So Ian, without putting you on the spot, if you had to ballpark estimate what a space needs would
be for City Hall and Police Department, which I think are our two primary needs?
- Probably 25 to 30.
- Okay. And the reason that matters is because obviously we'll need to find another, let's say 20,000,
to be safe. Diana, is there any place where we would have 20,000 that we could pull from that
wouldn't require us to find, maybe we've got maybe some leftover contingency for this year yet? Do
we have, is there any like contractual service budgets that might have some availability? I really prefer
not to go to ARPA if we've got funds available elsewhere.
- [Diana] Yeah, 'cause you're right, it should verify, yes. It's right around 10,000 that's available
without any other questions, we could spend that money. Contingency...
- [Pam] Possible fund balance.
- [Diana] Fund balance of, in the 416, which is where this originally was funded out of.
- Bottom line is can we find that 20? And then is there a way that we can do it at the staff level or are
we gonna have to go seek additional authorization from council?
- [Diana] If you grab it from Contingency, it would be an authorization through council. If there was-
- But do we have existing accounts?
- [Diana] If we could find a fund balance that would have been a remaining balance about 10,000, that
would not need the same kind of authorization. It would be under our procurement thresholds.
- What's the procurement threshold? Isn't it 25?
- [Diana] Typically for a spend, yes.
- Okay, so anything above 25 we'll have to get council authorization. I'm just, to Garritt's point, I'm
trying to piece together the timing in my mind of when we can get this report initiated versus when
we can get it back. So if we're over 25 we've gotta get council approval.
- As I said, without putting me on the spot.
- Yeah, understood. Understood.
- What you're saying is 25 is a great number.
- Yeah, I'm pretty well-
- Yeah, I'm putting him on the spot, help him.
- Yeah, we have the plans of your existing facilities. So we have the report. We have a general
assessment. We know what the square footages are that we've assigned to some of these things. So
taking that and saying, okay, we need new locker facilities or new bathrooms or more offices. We
have some good info that we can build off. So I don't know if there was anything additional from Bray
that wasn't in the packet from back in February or if that was the extent of everything that they
produced?
- [Diana] I think there were two or three presentations that were produced that were given back
then to some committee level, and they would've been all included in that packet from, that we
included back in February.
- Okay.
- Diana, what's the timing of the bond request?
- [Diana] At this point it will be, we were looking to start bringing back the 2023 bonding request
either the end of this year or early in 2023, that we would start talking and start really looking at the
five years, since at this point we're not able to take any more items probably off of that list and put it
into operational. If anything there might be some operational that'll go back onto our bonding list.
- Okay.
- [Diana] So we're looking end of December really or push out until January.
- And the reason I ask, of course, is I think critical needs on this report that we can meet, like I'm
comfortable moving with and forward with bonding, but if there are things on this, even if they are a
critical need on this list, but it's possible that this space study could turn that upside down-
- Mm hm.
- Mm hm.
- I don't feel as comfortable moving forward with those in capital improvement plan. I'd rather wait a
year. But obviously wanting to make sure that we're not creating a risky situation for our facilities.
- [Diana] There is more work, but there's never a reason why, we can always go for a second
bonding in the year.
- Sure.
- [Diana] It's just a little extra work, a little extra initial cost for the bonding. But that doesn't, if we're
not ready, it's better to not bond for something that we're not ready for.
- Right.
- [Diana] We can always consider a second pass, if we need it.
- And just some things that come to mind, like locker room renovations, I'd rather a little bit more
time. I think of some of the HVAC systems, I'd rather have a little more time.
- [Diana] The reason why, the earlier we try to move it forward is so that the DPW can get their
street construction and then some of the Park projects, that they know that they have their money,
they can move forward for 2023 programs. So if this wasn't ready, we could always consider another
bond later in the year.
- Is the bond request just for '23 or it multi-year?
- [Diana] Right now we currently do one year. We have a five year capital improvement plan that's
been starting to, year after year, we kind of seeing the same information. And so it's been a five year,
we sort of look at five years, but when we put the actual bond request in, it's just for whatever we
need for that year. So it would be money that we would get in spring of 2023 for projects to
hopefully get done in '23 or '24.
- I guess the other thing is, as you're talking some of these mechanical projects as well as electrical,
getting product?
- Right.
- We can design now, but-
- We need three to five years anyway?
- Yeah, right.
- You could bond for it but if you don't have your bond request till spring, the idea that that work's
gonna go into place in '23 is probably not gonna happen. You need air handling units and things with
long lead times.
- Sure, yeah.
- We've made obligations, though, that I want that to be a habit but we've made obligations to that
bond request on other items, just to get the orders placed.
- Yeah.
- Yeah. Judge, is it Gigot?
- Mm hm.
- Ah, look at that. We gotta get you on the news more so everybody knows how to pronounce that.
- [Jonathan] The less I as a judge am gonna be doing that, the better.
- We're kind of leaving you out of this discussion, and it's not intentional. If we think about space
needs of your facility. Admittedly, I think the whole reason Muni Court's been brought into this is
because if we want your land.
- [Jonathan] Right.
- I don't want to leave you out of the space needs discussion if it needs to happen. How are you
doing in space?
- [Jonathan] So spatially, we're pretty good. We've downsized our staff over the years. So we actually,
probably, in some ways maybe even have a little too much space, just 'cause we have several, I would
say three empty cubicles, for example. I think the courtroom itself is a good size. The one thing that I
would note is if every single person that had a citation and a court date showed up on their court
date, we would be overrun. We would be completely overflowing with people. Fortunately that
doesn't happen, because the court appearances are usually not mandatory. But for what we get, it's a
good space. And then the adjoining area, sort of that lobby, since we have gone back to having
juvenile pretrials in person, where Attorney Maes is actually coming down to the courthouse and
holding those pretrials, that space has actually been getting kind of filled up with people waiting. So
we would really need, basically what we need is chambers, probably a courtroom of a similar size, and
that sort of waiting area or some sort of area off of the courtroom, because that's where juveniles
wait when they're waiting for their court date or their hearing, since those are all confidential
hearings, as well as probably in that area, one or two offices if you will, one for the prosecutor, and
then it's just nice to have kind of an additional office if an attorney and client need to meet, where it
can be private, things like that. And then kind of some administrative office areas. It feels like there's a
decent amount of dead space in the court. I'm talking wide hallways, just kind of that type of stuff. But
spatially that sort of top floor of the Municipal Court building is pretty decent for what we need.
Maybe could downsize a little bit, but I wouldn't too, too much.
- And I don't think we'd downsize so much as to recognize that if one of the scenarios played out that
we want your land and we're gonna demo the building and incorporate you somewhere else.
- [Jonathan] Yeah.
- I think that's probably the time to have that discussion. If it's, hey, we're just gonna leave you alone
and we're not touching your land, then I think, it doesn't sound like you need many modifications if
any.
- [Jonathan] No. So I guess, yeah, and my point kind of is, ultimately, our building is fine for what we
need it for. If you're going to kind of take that over and maybe expand the Police Department, which
I totally understand, there's really two restrictions for the Municipal Court. The first is you can't be in
a tavern. And the second is we really need to be distinct from the Police Department, so that when
people come into the Municipal Court, they're not walking through the hallway of a police
department and thinking, "Well, this is already, I've already lost because they're connected."
- Sure.
- [Jonathan] So those are kind of the two main things to just keep in mind. I don't think the tavern
thing will be an issue. But it is in the statute.
- Is that like statute?
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
- [Jonathan] I imagine that was a problem maybe in the early 1900s or something.
- Is that next to the one that says you can't have your camel downtown on Sundays?
- [Jonathan] It's probably right around there. And the only other thing I would bring up is, I'm sure
Chief Davis would maybe agree with me is, it would probably be nice if GBPD had a workout facility
that wasn't directly underneath the courtroom.
- You betcha.
- [Jonathan] But those are kind of the main things for us.
- Okay. So is there like a general consensus or agreement that space needs as necessary is the next
step?
- [Garritt] And you would tie Municipal Court into that?
- Well it doesn't seem like, they have such limited needs. Again, it doesn't seem like that would-
- I think what we would do is we'd look at the Police Department first and kinda get a sense as to
what the needs are there and then make a determination from that as to how big the site would need
to be. And then kind of from that make a determination of we need to relocate or incorporate or
somehow parcel some of that together. I think there certainly can be, the idea of some shared
services, whether it be through City Hall or Police or Fire, or by the same token I know there are
restrictions around what that intends too. So yeah.
- Can I ask a different question, and forgive me if I'm way outta order, but if I tally up the four needs
assessments that were done, I'm coming up with a number of like 11.34 million in repairs on the high
end.
- Okay.
- And my experience in building new buildings for the technologies, if you go and meet with your
departments, you'll get a space program that is existing plus. And I don't fault the people you're
asking, that's the reality of saying, how could you make your area work better? So my question is,
what would a new building, to replicate one-to-one the square footage that currently is allocated
cost? And if we just start with that number, oftentimes what I like to do is kind of drop some zeros
off and say if you turned 11.3 million into 113,000, would you spend $113,000 on a $400,000 house
or are you looking for a new house? And you can get really caught up in the minutia. The second
thing that I would ask is, at the end of the day, what number can the city's budget hold and what will
the constituents agree to support? If that number is anything over 20 million, good luck, it's not gonna
happen. Or if that number is no, I think we have the capacity to be able to borrow and show good
faith as to why we're gonna spend this money in lieu of. And then I think about the fact that look
around and with remote work and so many other changes, there's probably some used buildings
within the city that meet 75, 80% of the needs that don't necessarily need $11 million to make them
functional. So the one that I'll call, and case in point, Brown County Sheriff's Department, what I read
was a 2011, $5 million to buy S&L Motors. What a perfect adaptive reuse, even normalized to today's
dollars and with inflation, you're talking six, 7 million. Are there buildings within our city that make
more sense to invest good dollars in? And will the development community embrace being able to
acquire a vacant building or the land that the City Hall was on? Another one I look at is, I grew up
born and raised in Kaukuana. Their city hall and fire station together was 19 million bucks. In today's
dollars, that's somewhere in the neighborhood of $25 million. And I understand the city of Green
Bay, substantially larger than Kaukuana, but if you go look at their facility, they built what they
needed, not what everybody wanted, not what everybody thought they needed, and they had to
make some concessions. But they ended up with a pretty nice building at the end of the day. So when
I hear needs numbers that say just one element of our program is gonna be $40 million, I'm calling,
that's utopia. That's somebody's idea of everything they ever wanted and then some. But if we start
with some of the pieces that are right at the end of our noses, I think we'll end up making better
decisions. Then you go into, and say, we did some real estate looking and there are a few buildings
that meet the footprint of 40,000 square feet or whatever the combined, and we actually like some of
their locations better than City Hall. The last little comment that I'll make, and then I'll be quiet and
ask people to respond is, if we don't want to invest $11 million into City Hall, what private developer
is ever gonna want to do the same? It would figure it would-
- Yeah.
- Unless you can come up with a performer that says this as housing is gonna be so much more
beneficial that I can afford to stick in $11 million, is anybody in the private side of the world gonna
want to spend that type of money in this building?
- Garritt?
- Or is the first 11 million better off going towards the 25 million new building?
- Right.
- Right.
- Exactly.
- And that's kind of the question I've been asking. If you're gonna put 10 million into repair, do you
want that to be in a new building? Which goes back to do we have the space that we need?
- Mm hm.
- Yeah.
- So you, some really great questions though.
- So Chet, you and I are on the same page. And when I looked at City Hall, Fire Station Number 1,
Municipal Court, Police Station, the current square footage is about 175,000 square feet, rough
numbers. You've got 10 to 12 million in repairs teed up right now. If you take that current square
footage on a one-to-one replacement, it's gonna be $60 to 70 million of new building.
- Okay.
- That doesn't count FF&E. It doesn't account for moving expenses. It doesn't account for land
acquisition. So you're somewhere between 60 and, I don't know, throw out a big number?
- 90?
- $90 million in new buildings. We take the fire station kind of off the table, 'cause it feels like that's
already headed down its own path. It feels like the big concern we have is Police and what they're
doing. I agree with the utopia of the $35 million thing that is twice the square footage they're
currently in. So if you bring that back down to what's let's functional, what's reasonable, I don't think
you're maybe spending that kind of money and now it gets a little bit closer to is $12 million in
maintenance really the best thing?
- Can I even maybe add onto that, Paul, if you look at Police, it seems to be the good example. We've
got the maintenance needs, but if we say, hey, we've still got these additional space needs, maybe a
$10 million renovation or an addition or something like that can solve those space needs versus an
entirely new facility. I don't know.
- I don't think it's for us to make these statements, but I don't see the climate right now supporting a
$75 million new combined City Hall, Police Department, Municipal Court project.
- Diana, I'm not sure. I don't even know that we have that kind of capacity?
- Technically we do.
- Yeah.
- But to Paul's point-
- Yeah, you're right, we're-
- Not without destroying our bond rating, though, right?
- 'Cause we're only at, what, 40 odd percent?
- [Diana] We're definitely under our debt capacity per the state.
- Yeah.
- Mm hm.
- [Diana] But again, of course, obviously, whatever you borrow, you do have to pay back, right?
- Right.
- [Diana] And so that would be a large increase to our debt payments.
- And we can't just ignore Fire. If they are gonna go forward with combining 1 and 3 on a new site,
they're gonna spend $10 million on that project.
- Oh absolutely.
- So that's going right to your...
- Mm hm.
- Right.
- They got to the table first.
- Right.
- Yeah.
- Sorry, Chief.
- And none of that is-
- Is for certain.
- Is a done deal. Right?
- Yeah.
- We've allocated a million dollars-
- Understood.
- As Alder Johnson said, for that sort of site acquisition study and some engineering costs and things
like that. We have not moved forward with that decision as a council. One thing that I just wanted to
come back to quickly, maybe in a different way, is maybe ask our Finance Department to come to the
Finance Committee with a summary of the, and I forget to mention the deficient columns, but this,
it's essentially the deficient and the critical priority column, and just to see what that amount is, how
it compares to our existing CIP. And also, to Ian's point, if there's anything in here that is really a long
term investment that would make sense for us to do. There didn't seem to be too many of those out
there. But air unit housing is one for both, It looked like Muni Court and PD for sure. And I don't
know exactly what that is or what that means. Is that something that you would not want to do if you
were going to be reconfiguring the building or selling the building?
- Yeah, it depends, right, on, are you gonna change some of the elements of the HVAC system and
keep changing, keep changing, keep changing, keep changing? Or are you gonna say, okay, we just
need to gut this system and redo it? Are you gonna take this one bite at a time and just take forever
or are you gonna commit to doing that? And I think that's getting back to some of the questions here
is, is now the time to make the commitment? Or do we have to do a better job of identifying what
our immediate needs are and what we're planning for the next 10, 15 years in terms of how we're
going to tackle these issues that are only gonna get worse? So there's an ongoing maintenance piece
that needs to occur. And we just did something similar for YMCA up in Door County where they
knew they had significant items that hadn't been addressed for many years and they needed a plan
that really said, okay, this is what the plan's gonna be for the next 15 years. This is how we're gonna
spread it out. These things are critical and this is the plan for what we're gonna address every year
and we need to get architectural services and we need to get construction services in place for those
things to happen.
- [Garritt] Is that a Sturgeon Bay facility?
- Yeah.
- That one needs some work. Yeah.
- Okay.
- So it's certainly, it's possible to take this and format it in a manner that is, okay, this is how we're
gonna eat the elephant.
- Mm hm. Okay.
- I'm a bean counter, so I think about this as what's the net that cost when you get done? So I've
heard us talk about what needs to be done now, and that kind of doesn't change, but the operational
expenses associated with an older building, it's got to be higher than the operational expenses,
ongoing expenses of a newer building. And so when you think about the time value of all those
expenses over time, and I would assume that you would want to think about this as a 20 year, 30
year investment. When you get out of that and doing that analysis. So on one side you have the
making the changes that you need to make and then the ongoing expenses associated with older
buildings on the one side, and the expansion of those facilities on that side to new facilities, you're
gonna end up with a net cost or a net savings, probably a net cost. And you're gonna have to ask the
question, is it worth the additional net cost associated with that in order to get these new things that
I want? Better shared spaces for the Police Department and other things like that? So in my mind that
has to be, when you come to the table with here are our options, you also have to come to the table
with, and this is what you're gonna have to pay for it. And it is not gonna be exact. It's going to be
rough.
- Going back to the earlier discussion about the needs analysis, I put down needs versus flow in the
context of the Chief's comments. If we were able to do that and approve that for, you were
suggesting City Hall as well, correct? I'm more focused on the Police Department personally, and if
you tie Muni Court into that it's more-
- Yeah, and disclaimer, the reason I wanted to bring City Hall into this, again, was recognizing there's
10 million of repairs, and if Police Department was gonna build a new facility, do you build them
together? Is that an option to contemplate?
- So I'm might against that, and I don't know, I won't put words in Ian's mouth, but that range,
roughly, you were talking about, was for both facilities or per facility? That sort of cost?
- No, I think you could do a lot, because we need to get an understanding of what those shared
facilities could be. It may well be, utilization of a room like this could be you use on multiple front by
the Police Department and or City Hall.
- Mm hm.
- So yeah, there's depth, the more you look at it, the more overlap you'll see and the more
efficiencies there will be. So once you start doing the report, I think, the concern that I have is the, in
this report from Bray, they did look at a fair amount of land options. If we take that off the table, then
I think your $25,000, you can do a fair amount with that. But if you are gonna try looking throughout
the city and existing buildings and all of that, in addition to the assessment, that takes a lot of leg
work.
- [Garritt] Well, and I don't know that we need that. And here's a good point based on what you just
said, and I want to make a comment on what Chet said too is, there's a unique opportunity here to
look at this property in a different way or to consider what we have down at the Police/Muni Court,
that almost the whole block right there, minus a little piano key that the EDRC has there. What I
didn't like about that past report from Bray was that it simply looked like they went to a GIS
program, put in what is larger than 20 acres, and all this stuff spit out that we would never, where we
would never ever put a building.
- Right.
- [Garritt] I would respectfully disagree with Chet on one point is that, sure the county got a great
deal buying the old S&L Motors to do that. That is the absolute worst place for that facility. Real
estate wise, it should not be there. So when you look at where this building's located, where the
Police Department's located, they're both tax exempt right now. To be able to reuse tax exempt and
not take taxable off, or the odd thought of, do you make this property taxable and take a TIF created
value on this property over 27 years, that's a lot of money.
- Mm hm.
- [Garritt] So I don't think we should waste time at all trying to find properties all over the place. We
know, I think, what we have, and we have some good footprints here. I would rather focus on the
needs. What physical building square footage is needed? Does it fit in something we have right now?
Or do you build adjacent to what we have? That could tie in land next door to something for Fire or
for however a Muni Court would be repurposed or reincorporated without the cost of land, without
taking taxable land off, and with maybe making not a taxable land taxable.
- Diana, not to get into the weeds, but when you think about the bond term for a capital project like
the building, what kind of term do you typically get on that?
- [Diana] If it, I will have to verify the information I got from Jonathan from ours, but if it doesn't have
a public safety feature, it's a 10 year term bond, and if it has a public safety feature, it's a 20 year term,
which was surprising information 'cause we-.
- So if we were to bond for just City Hall, we'd have a 10 year term. But if we combine City Hall with
Police, we can get a 20 year term?
- [Diana] I can verify that when I do this. I will go back and verify, 'cause I asked him twice-
- What was the logic to that?
- It's an exempt-
- Is there a law tied to that?
- It's the State Legislature, Ian.
- [Garritt] People like us fear it.
- [Diana] Right. It's an exempt bonding. And I'm not sure that is why, why the purpose of, why that is
why it is.
- So we can just build the world's biggest police station, put City Hall in.
- Right.
- And bond for 20 years.
- [Diana] Immediately, Ehlers, who's our financial advisors, they didn't come back, they have a way
where, as soon as you take it out in this type of bonding and you can turn around and then refinance
it and then you can take it over for 20 years. So they've worked through this with other
municipalities. Like they have a work around.
- Yeah, right.
- [Diana] But the immediate is 10 years if it does not have a public safety feature, which really limits it,
because I would want to take it out for 20 years. Like you said, the useful life is gonna be 20 plus
years on a building, whether it's an expansion and or a new purchase. You would hope you could
take it out for a longer period of time.
- Well, tradition, I mean, I understand bonds probably give you a slightly different rate, but is it
municipalities do traditional finance? I know we talked about that at one point with the Shipyard,
pursuing that path. And it's not important to answer that today. The reason I'm asking the question, I
was just understanding, to Paul's point here, what is the, if it's a $60 million building, we probably
know it's an nonstarter. But also, what is the capacity for debt service? Because that term, obviously,
influences that dialogue. And then not just the capacity, but what's the appetite? Which is probably
more important. We know we have the capacity.
- If you would like to read, let me real quick read from Ehlers, he says, "One, for municipal building
with no public safety component, the city can issue GO, General Obligation debt for up to 10 years.
For a municipal building with public safety component, the city can issue GO debt for a term of up to
10 years, for the administration portion of the building, and up to 20 years for the fire and police
portion of the building. We would need the engineer to provide a breakdown of the square footage."
So no matter what, the administrative’ s only 10%. "Or in either case, we can issue interim financing,
which is called a short term note or ban, to finance the entire building and then refinance a ban for a
20 year refunding. This is the common way of doing it and this gives us the most flexibility." So
they've found ways to work around it. But for anything administrative, City Hall, I'm not sure Muni
Court might be considered administrative also. Maybe it's a public safety issue, but typically they're
categorized as a function under, our accounting, they're considered administrative. That would mean
it would be a 10 year is the way currently it's set up, without finding a work around.
- Okay. Thank you. And when we do the repairs, what's the term on that? So if we've got 10 million
of repairs that we're gonna do, 10 million in repairs, what would the term of that bond be? Or is that
a note?
- [Diana] Typically repairs on our building is typically 10 years. Unless the useful life is longer than 10
years, then you could probably go down that path. But typically our bond counsel will come back and
tell us where it would fall. But I would guess it's still gonna be 10 years for the repair.
- Thank you. A quick question for Judge, sort of a random one, but is there any issue with
theoretically co-locating the Council Chambers and Municipal Court?
- [Jonathan] No. I don't think there would be a restriction on that. Actually, I think that's how a
number of municipalities end up doing it, especially the smaller ones.
- A similar space, right.
- Yeah, exactly.
- Okay.
- And that was, in addition to that I was kind of contemplating what if, what floor?
- Mm hm.
- Right, if you need-
- To get more use out of the land.
- If you need that land over there, couldn't Muni Court come here?
- Right.
- Yeah.
- To me it's just get all options on the table right now. Right?
- Yeah, right.
- Okay, so I go back to, is the next step still the space needs analysis?
- I think that's really important to conduct. But I do want to take a look at that deficient and critical
priority list, if that makes sense. And just kind of get that to Finance Committee and Council with the
understanding that we don't want to do any of these big ticket items if they are long term
investments that could potentially conflict with future use.
- Yep.
- But if they're just things we need to do for staff safety.
- And you could work on that with staff, right?
- Yeah.
- And BSA, and kind of make that recommendation.
- Yeah, I would assume so.
- Yeah.
- Okay.
- So essentially your criteria there is, I'm gonna do it either way, I'm getting. So I just need to identify
those things which kind of meets that criteria.
- Right.
- And then things that could be swayed by my decision on which direction I'm gonna go, I might pause
those.
- Yeah.
- The other thing I would suggest, because if you do a new facility, hypothetically, you're still three,
four, five years out. So I would also add items that are at risk of critical failure in the short term.
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
- So high risk, critical failure in the items.
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
- [Garritt] So again, but that study would be for Police and City Hall, together, right?
- Yes. I think so.
- Space needs .
- Correct.
- Yeah.
- And then Muni Court would get added later if...
- Yeah.
- There's not a tremendous number of spaces.
- Yeah.
- It's not gonna...
- [Garritt] But that's worth verifying, just the needs that were discussed, correct, on what does that
equate into the square foot, to your earlier point, to throw that on a fourth floor? I'm not saying we
have to, to know what you have left over.
- I think Judge kind of answered it in a way for us. He's saying that you've got adequate space in that
building now, so you just use that as your worst case scenario.
- [Garritt] Take that number right now.
- You need 12,000 square feet, or actually six, roughly, to accommodate wherever you go in the
future.
- So that's what, half of a floor here?
- Yeah, I think we're 10?
- 10, 11, something like that.
- Yeah.
- [Garritt] First floor, 13,300, floors two through six, 13,433.
- Yeah. In theory, half of a floor could accommodate Muni Court.
- [Jonathan] Yeah, 'cause that whole basement at the court is the workout facility for law
enforcement. We don't even, the only time we would use it is if one of us wanted to go and work
out.
- That hasn't happened yet?
- [Jonathan] Nope.
- That's where you say snap.
- And have you used the shower?
- [Jonathan] No. Oh, that's the other thing-
- Apparently council thinks that's a-
- [Jonathan] I do not need it. If we're gonna do any remodeling or moving the Municipal Court, I don't
think we need to install another shower.
- The other thing about future judges probably.
- So Diana, do you, I want to go back to the space needs funding.
- [Diana] Mm hm.
- Do we have a place we can do that? Or do we need to, do you need time to figure that out? Or do
we need to go to Council?
- [Diana] Well, I would assume the request could go together to BSA, but in the short term, we have
10,000 we don't have to ask anything about. Whether or not they could get one facility started, get
us a better estimate, and then, I don't know, which would you think is a higher priority, the Police or
the City Hall, and then we can, meanwhile, try to find another funding source. But that way we can
kind of get a couple of things moving forward at the same time. One could actually be almost
requested at this point, get that in the hopper, and they can't do really both at the same time, I would
assume.
- Sure. Which one can you get done for 10,000 or less?
- I hear you.
- So maybe...
- So I have a contact at the Center for Public Safety that we've collaborated with in the past. My
thought is to maybe reach out to him and maybe get him in as part of that assessment so that we, we
can do an assessment, but we've gotta sit there and analyze what current trends are and does this
make sense? He may be able to get us to the goal line faster at a less cost. Let me put a call out to
him and see where he is at with how he may be able assist us in this.
- Okay.
- So they do this all over the country.
- Sure. And on the City Hall side, and I, gosh, I remember I was at the Main Street Conference, in
Kansas City and we did a visit to Lee's Summit, which is nearby there, and we went to their City Hall,
and they were talking about how they had this reputation of being a very business friendly community
and that kind of got reversed. And what they learned was that City Hall wasn't customer facing
anymore. And they went so far as to take that report and they built a new City Hall that was more
customer facing and all of a sudden they became known as this real friendly place to be again.
- Sure.
- It's just amazing how the way you design your space and the way the public interacts with it can
change perceptions overnight. And that experience continually goes through my mind when I think
about City Hall and how we can change that experience. Because I do think, and this is not to the
detriment of anyone that works here, but I just, I think the design of this space doesn't make it very
conducive and friendly to outsiders.
- It's institutional.
- Yeah.
- It is.
- Yeah.
- The previous City Hall was far more decorative, far more kind of civic. And then when this building
was done, the mindset at the time was efficiency. Right?
- Right.
- How efficient can we make this? And how don't we want these costs? And it served that purpose
very well. But the purpose of it being inviting, it didn't.
- Right.
- Right.
- It's the case in point.
- Mm hm.
- I agree with everything the three of you just said. But let me ask this question. If you could hire the
happiest person in the city of Green Bay and put that person at the desk downstairs on first floor at
that salary, what does that do for your image and your interaction with the city? Right now you walk
into an empty hallway with an empty desk.
- Mm hm.
- Yeah.
- You've been waiting half an hour, and appointment says, go upstairs to DPW-
- If you hire world's best greeter, what's that compared to the millions of dollars we're talking about?
- Sure.
- I think that's for sure a part of it. Right? I think of the services that people most frequently use or
need. If you want to pay a parking ticket, sure, you can have a receptionist there that directs you to
where you need to go. Or you can just pay your parking ticket on the first floor.
- Right.
- And not have to wander City Hall to figure out where you're going for it. So to me it's, again, how
we use City Hall and are we designed to appropriately receive that.
- [Garritt] There are many departments on the first floor that don't automatically need to be on the
first floor.
- [Diana] We agree.
- [Garritt] If you took a room like this on the first floor versus the way it's utilized right now-
- [Diana] Yeah, currently our Assessor's Office, Purchasing, and Finance is all on the first floor. What
else?
- Payroll.
- [Diana] And payroll. And those are all departments that would not need to be on the first floor.
Clerks, where they take, where the public walks in, that certainly should be there.
- Yeah, and part of it could just be an organizational realignment, right? Should the Clerk's Office, for
example, collect parking ticket fees? I don't know. But it's something to just, I think, just to reimagine
how we use it to create a more efficient system. And I think part of it could be personnel and staffing.
Part of it could be structural. Okay.
- [Garritt] I want to throw a quick number out there. Just 'cause somebody, this is a, just a point to
ponder. Nothing to act on, but you'd asked earlier, I think you'd rhetorically asked or who said it? If
we're not gonna spend $10 or 11 million on this building, who is? So 96,000 square feet City Hall, and
I looked this up quick to confirm. So that's, roughly, you're 100 bucks a foot, $10 million rounded.
Over at a great building I'm doing across the river, about $135 a square foot. So you think about
improvement costs, you're not terribly far off there. Assuming floor's two through six are 13,000 feet
per floor, you can do 12 apartments per floor. Six apartments total. An average 1,100 bucks a month
of rent gives you about 800 grand a year. It's about an eight cap on $10 million of going in on this
project. Just again, don't necessarily think that you couldn't repurpose this building in a different way
that would then become taxable if the decision was made to tie this into a public safety center. It's
not crazy.
- Did you just volunteer?
- [Garritt] No. But it is not crazy. So know that you have options. I think we have a lot of options on
the table. I think the biggest element for us is you may almost have too many options. But there are
things that are possible in many ways uniquely here with the dirt here and the dirt four blocks south
that could tie together a lot of different things that we're discussing.
- It seems to me, before we narrow options, we need to know what our needs are.
- [Garritt] That's why I think pure building square footage, what purely space building square footage
is needed? And then you can figure out with what you have right now or what you need to add onto.
I don't think we need more a land that we have now.
- Again over there we have two story building. Here we have a five story building. What could be on
that site? Could it be a five story building if it's needed? Can we build the density of downtown up a
little bit.
- It's pretty flat.
- Mm hm.
- Yeah. And I think that's the other piece of the equation. You take two sites, hypothetically
consolidate them to one, you go up and now you've got a site here or there, wherever, that can be
taxed and you're less footprint, if you will, off the tax rolls. But you're also doing what's appropriate
for a downtown. And I think that the city needs to be a catalyst for those types of investments.
- [Garritt] Have you thought that this building could maybe generate somewhere, 150 grand of
property tax revenue, if you threw it back on the tax rolls, and you do a new TID here, and you
collect that 150 grand directly for 20 some years? It's real money.
- Well it reduces or offsets the debt service on a new building, so it affects or impacts the financial
calculation.
- But the other thing I'm thinking about it, I'm in Garritt's camp. I think that you could adapt to reuse
this building and probably meet your needs in a new city hall and not be too far apart when you think
about what this building could bring in terms of value. The thing that I think would be also helpful is
getting more realistic, actual today costs, on new buildings. Because we've got a couple that are under
our nose. They're just getting a little bit, they're starting to get old. It doesn't seem like 2016 is that
long ago, but it is when you look at it. So again, I go back to City Hall in Kaukauna, 85,000 square
feet, that's not that much smaller than this building. And I would argue some of the efficiencies are
that you're not stacking things on top of each other. So the one restroom facility that could serve the
equivalent of one on every floor. But that was a $9 million project in 2016. Let's double that. And
you're still not in the $40 to 50 million. I was part of the Notre Dame of De Pere School. 87,000
square foot building, 27 million. They had to tear down a building, but built a three story school on an
existing site no bigger than this. Again, that's, kids have only been there three years. But at the end of
the day, that's great. You can do all the needs assessment in the world. What will the taxpayers vote
to approve? And I think right now it's actually a detriment, because you have so many projects at the
same time. I think your conservative voting base will support a police station if it's for the right
reasons. Maybe you take that problem off the table first, and you say, you know what, it's a bad look,
bad optic in times right now where people are struggling, inflation's high, to invest in City Hall. But
we probably could get our constituents to, for the right reasons, support an investment in law
enforcement. Maybe I'm calling it wrong. And I think there is a benefit to not having that in the same
building as your City Hall. I think there can be a barrier that's put out there. Not rightful, but the
same reason you don't want court inside of a police station. So my philosophy might be to pick this
apart a little bit and kind of go to the end first. Do we have the bonding capacity to invest x million
dollars and could we get people to say yes if that was an investment exclusively in the police services?
Now I got some vacant real estate here that allows some growth in other departments. Is that the
best use of that? Maybe not. Has the Police Station got any value outside of here? I don't know. I
think you're gonna run into, every time you look at $11 million of repair to repair a building that
doesn't get you anything different than you had, other than it was neglected for 20 years. Nobody's
fault today. It's just the reality of what happened. An investment wasn't prioritized in keeping the
building healthy. It was prioritized in what the needs were in every other department. And now
you've got $11 million looking at you in the face and you're saying, "I sure would like to spend that
$11 million in something that's gonna get me something I don't have today.
- Right.
- Yeah.
- I think you could figure a way to fit City Hall in a $30 million building. And if that is 100,000 square
feet of your 175 that you referenced, then the other pieces are much smaller than that. I couldn't find
them on each report. I was trying to find the square footage, and maybe it was in some of our
previous packet.
- [Garritt] Of all the different buildings?
- Yeah.
- [Garritt] Both individual towards the-
- Yeah. And some, the spaces are quite different too. We have a fair amount of garage space, right?
It's not the same type of construction that an office probably is.
- Mm hm.
- So we have to look at what proportions of what types of buildings we need for what types of
purposes. So that's gonna have a factor. I just pulled up the cost index on here for a building that was
in 2016. If that index was 118 at that point, it's 177 today. So what you built in 2016 for 100, just use
the numbers as millions, for 118 million it would cost you 177 million today.
- But it's not double.
- No.
- And that's my point. It cost them 9 million. If you double it, you're at 18, and you're at a building the
size of City Hall.
- Mm hm.
- Yeah.
- I'm yeah, right.
- I realize construction has gone up. You probably have a book of projects that you can share, if we
built this building and-
- All our projects are on budget. But I don't know that we can go to the point where it is double
quadrupled. There are, again, if you look at what was built for 27 million for an elementary school,
you have no high base basis. You have no like-
- Right. Low cost basis.
- Low cost basis.
- Right.
- And I think with with, if you knew you could get the commitment to do that, that's when you kick in
these space assessments and figure out what do we need and what size does this need to be? But in
that case, they tore down a building. There was no reuse in revenue. If what Garritt's talking about,
this building has some ability to become part of the puzzle to offset, that'd be really cool.
- Right.
- And another small factor, in terms of offset, I think about like if you had a new facility, and I've seen
this in other cities, in fact, Garritt and I, when we were in Richmond, Virginia, saw this in their city
hall. They had a restaurant on the ground floor that paid rent. So all of a sudden you get a building
with a lot of people in it that would probably support that restaurant alone. Now you've got 5,000 a
month in rent. 60,000 a year times 20 years. It adds up.
- [Garritt] And a rooftop deck.
- And a rooftop deck.
- Yes.
- It's pretty nice.
- Their City Hall was also, what, 20 stories tall?
- [Garritt] Something like that.
- And Richmond's not that big. Anyway. It's the state capital.
- [Garritt] So next step is a study, right?
- Yep.
- [Garritt] Needs assessment.
- And needs versus what we have and how can we...
- So I don't know that I'm in alignment on that. We've got studies that had to be refreshed to do
another study. I understand it's important to know what you need. But if it ends up on a shelf and it's
now the third study conducted of what City Hall needs, and we still aren't solving the problem of
what can we afford and get approved, why do we have the study?
- [Garritt] I think that's a fair question. But I'm almost at this point, throw out the Bray study from
years ago. I put very little weight on that in terms of I wish, for right now to talk to the current chief
and the current personnel and say, "Here's what we need today." I think from a pure building square
footage, and that's why I put flow analysis, what needs to flow into something? I think it's not just a
study for a study. 'Cause I'm with you on that. Nobody needs that. But this I think will actually answer
what those studies did not, which is really, functionally, what do you need to be by each other and
how do you build that or how do you renovate to allow for that within a footprint you have?
- But do we need to hire somebody to ask our staff what they need?
- [Garritt] Well, if we're talking the range of which has been discussed here, I don't see that as being
crazy to spend on it. I really don't.
- Okay, so hear me out. We pay 25 grand and we get this study, and we're all back in this room. Now
we have a study that tells us what we need, and we're right back to the same question of, "Whew,
this is overwhelming, because if we take 175 bucks a square foot, we're talking about a 70 million
project." What have we gained, if we don't think we can actually get $70 million approved by anybody
in the City of Green Bay?
- [Garritt] I think I'd find out first and foremost, how much physical space does the Police
Department need for operations and how is this building being utilized right now? If this building's at
less than an 80% efficiency factor, then I think it starts the discussion of, do you meld some things
together where you're maybe not spending that kind of money?
- Yeah. I get your point completely. The challenge becomes is, if you're doing an analysis of what
could be, which is what Bray did, right? What could be? Those are some pretty significant numbers.
And we're sitting here saying, well, that's never likely gonna happen. Like nobody's gonna get behind
that. What is the real number? We haven't identified what that real, the number in reality could be.
And I think that's what would help us in this case, to say, "Okay, given that, we need to stay put, we
need to invest in the buildings that we have." Or "Man, maybe that's not such a good idea."
- Mm hm.
- So the first study you're saying is, you defined it as what could be, and I think what you're
advocating for is what should be?
- What's reality?
- Yeah. Right.
- And so if we can define what should be, now you have a footprint in which you can do some
analysis on. And can I reuse this space? Can I not reuse this space? But it does seem like there are
other things we can be doing at the same time. What is the value of repurposing? Maybe that's getting
too cart before the horse, but what's the value of repurposing the building. That probably is getting
the cart for the horse though.
- [Garritt] At least in regards to the police station, I think you could see really quickly, which again,
the flow part of it, what can work within the existing footprint, what would you have to build new
additional-wise there? I think we'll be surprised by a relatively low number, I do. But short of knowing
that, I don't know if we'll ever have that answer.
- And when the Bray study was done, that was kind of done in a silo. I think it was Police and Fire.
Right? You didn't have your Finance Director in there. So that's why, to Garritt's point, I think it's
really hard to put a lot of confidence in it.
- Right.
- They probably did what they were asked to do, but it wasn't necessarily something that council
would've been willing to support at the time. Part of the purpose of this committee, of course I'm on
this, Alder Galvin is on this as well, even though he's absent today. So it was to make sure that there
were some decision makers in the room that could say, "Hold up, there's no appetite for that." Or,
"Okay, this is worth contemplating."
- Mm hm.
- Yeah. Having been involved in a number of space studies, unless you're telling your outfit to go in
with the objective to reduce space by 15%. I would not be shocked when you come out of asking the
users what they want, with existing times something.
- Can you give them the guideline, not exactly what you said, but nothing larger than what we have
right now. The footprint has to be the same or smaller?
- But does that address the need?
- Right.
- Right, that's the question is, you can force the hand and say, "Well, we built it for 30 million, but it
doesn't serve it purpose." But what I'm saying-
- It's a balance.
- Sure.
- But, I get what you're saying. If you ask them, I had a client that we did a weight training center for.
And he laid out all of the equipment, and I said, "That looks like big equipment." He said, "Yeah, I put
it to 1.25 on the copier and made those things bigger so that I could get more space." Well that's not
helpful. Right? Right. That's not helpful. So we need to know, if they have 50 vehicles that they need
to park and they're all standard cars, then we know how much space that takes. If they're all larger
vehicles we know what space that takes. How many need to be inside, how many do you want inside?
Right?
- Right.
- Those are two different questions. And I think if we approach it like, what can we do realistically?
And if we are realistic about this, it has a realistic chance of happening. And I think that's what we're
trying to get to, is some reality.
- Where does that counterbalance come from though? So when we're doing this study, and you're
asking people what do they want? Where is the counterbalance to say it's not a candy store. There's
gotta be some constraints around that. I know how that works at Schneider. I'm not sure how that
works in this situation.
- How does it work there?
- Well, you have finance people involved and... There's a back and forth.
- Right.
- Between, okay, I heard you say you wanted this, now talk me through why that's a good thing for us
to do? And some of it's like, to your point, it's like, no, I'm not gonna add any more heads. I know
you think you need heads, so I'm not gonna add more heads to this part. We're gonna figure out how
to make it work. And until what's coming out of people's eyes, you don't add any heads. And you
have to, later on you do. But there's a counterbalance to the well, we say the commercial side of the
business side, once versus what the finance folks come back and say, that doesn't make sense, and let
me show you why.
- So Jesse, I would answer that by saying I think the counterbalance is this committee.
- Okay.
- And that's why Diana's here and Pam is here. That's why I've asked other department heads to be a
part of this when it's necessary.
- And I can definitely fill that a part of this committee. But when you do the space study and you go
talk to the people about their spaces, where is the counterbalance?
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
- Yeah. The thing that also is a credit to us is that all of the buildings that we would be looking at to
do comparisons for are all public entities and have an obligation to share data. So the only argument
that you're really gonna win is you're operating the Police Department out of this many square feet
today. You can't deny that it. It's not the best model. It's not the best practice, it's not what
everybody wants. But it is functioning in this square footage. Now go find four or five police stations
that people would tell you, "Our new police station really is working great." What's the square
footage? How many calls do they average? And you start to compare that and the data will tell you
the story. A different way of getting it than going and asking somebody, what do you want? If I went
and asked my wife and kids what kind of a house they wanted, the square footage of the house would
be different than what we could actually afford. And not because they're bad people, but because I've
asked.
- Sure.
- So that's a good point. Benchmarking is always a nice way of get understanding where you should
be.
- Right, which is why I think the Department of Public Safety contact that I have would have that
baseline data for other municipalities. And they can say, okay, 100,000 people, this many calls, this is
the size of the department, but it doesn't include these things. It doesn't include city-owned function
or it does include city-owned function.
- This is where Galvin's almost kind of useful too. He's a retired police officer, recently retired. And
he's also on city council. So he's gotta understand the finance side of it.
- Right.
- And he to be like, "Ah, you don't really need that training room." And I've seen him do that many,
many times.
- And again, the data's out there. And I'd like to validate this, but if we're calling the City Hall 85,000
square feet, they say they have 49 employees. I don't know how many employees report to this
building every day. Is it 149? Is it-
- How many we got, Joe?
- It's closer to 200.
- Mm hm.
- And I don't know what departments are in Kaukauna that aren't in this building, but vice versa. But I
think you start to be able to substantiate your need if you look at what's already out there, plus you
have some ability to kinda say what was invested in those communities. A different way of solving the
problem. But I absolutely agree, and I'm not a finance person, but knowing what you have the capacity
to actually afford is really almost the first step of the problem. And knowing what you could generate
with the assets you already own.
- In the context of a space needs analysis, does the, I would assume you would need like full fledged
architectural studies to really drill down on the layout. But can you take a look at, because it seems
to me that it's not the most efficient use of space at PD. In the context of the study, can somebody
go in there and be like, at a high level, you could do a lot more with this space than you are doing
now.
- Yeah, I think you have to at some point say we need to do a schematic layout and say, okay, these
are all of your admin services, they go together. This is storage that is or isn't onsite or offsite. Is it
downstairs in a basement type facility or does it need to be accessible? How secure is it? Does it
need to be in the core of the building, not on the outside? There's all kinds of discussions that go on
relative to, so you have to have some sense. The problem is you start to get down a rabbit hole really
fast and you've gotta avoid going down that rabbit hole and look at it objectively and say, okay, in
general terms, this is how it is.
- And that's something different too that we're comparing 1.2 million in maintenance for the Police
Station versus a new building versus what I think everybody's kind of insinuating is maybe there's just
an addition and a remodel, well that's gonna land somewhere in the middle. So now that very quickly
is like, holy cow, are we gonna spend 15 million on a remodel of a aging facility and is it still right? Is it
the flow?
- Is it right enough?
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
- Right.
- At that point, we're agonizing when we're spending 1.2 million in maintenance on a building we
might not want to keep. Really, now we're gonna spend 10 or 12 million to remodel it and add on?
- I'm not agonizing that much over that number, just to sort of be the most frugal one in the room or
in the discussion, in a sense, I feel like we can make that building work. They've been making it work
for years and years and decades. So if we can make it clean and safe and appealing for employees, I'm
okay with that.
- But I don't know if we know what that number is yet.
- Well, we have a, it's not too far away from $1.2 million.
- Well, I don't know that. My understanding of the 1.2 is it's really just maintenance and things of that
nature.
- [Garritt] I think that 1.2 addressed the female bathrooms.
- Does it address that?
- No, I don't think so.
- Right, that's my point.
- [Garritt] The public accessibility piece to where they can't be and evidence storage.
- You're gonna pile on, let's just say for the sake of argument, a couple more million dollars worth of
remodeling that they need for their efficiencies, flow, those things.
- Yeah, I'll tell you, some of those things are already in the CIP. The bid for the fence came back, it
was a half a million dollars to put a fence up for security around the squad cars. Locker rooms I think
were around a half a million.
- Okay.
- So you're starting to add up now. And those aren't maintenance things. Those are, we need to-
- Functional.
- Yeah, those are renovations.
- There's some bathrooms in here though.
- What's in there for the bathrooms is like code deficiencies. It's not a remodel.
- Okay.
- It is all strictly making it code compliant or addressing aesthetic issues that need to be addressed for
various reasons. And what's driving some of those decisions is you think, we pick on locker room
renovation, but there's more female officers today than there were 40 years ago. So those needs are
certainly there and the demand on the facility has changed.
- Well, and I would call attention specific to a public safety building. Good luck trying to renovate one
while you keep them functional. You'd have a fighting chance of doing that at City Hall, but it would
be much easier thinking about a new footprint for a Police or Fire Station than at the commencement
of its construction they move into. But shutting down the locker rooms is one thing, but shutting the
locker rooms, having to do a massive renovation, and keeping a police station functional seems like a
pretty unreasonable thing. Having a new police station to be able to move people from City Hall into
the old one temporarily while you renovate this building, much more feasible.
- I agree, it's more challenging, but it's not impossible on the start. We do work at St. Vincent's and
St. Mary's, new surgery rooms, they're doing surgery in the room next door. There are ways of doing
that. Yeah, it costs money. It costs 'cause you gotta blank off the duct work. There are things and
procedures that need to happen to make that work. Yeah, certainly it's easier to build fresh, move
and then back fill. Yeah.
- I think you got two questions in front of you. One is, do you go forward with a study for uses? And
the other one, to your point is, how do we go about defining what it is that the city can afford? I
don't think that these things are mutually exclusive. I think you can do both of them at the same time.
So I think it comes down to that, is are we gonna go forward with the understanding how the spaces
need to be used? I think that that seems like a reasonable step. But I'm not sure what the next step
would be when it comes down to understanding what we can actually afford. And that's gonna be a
constraint, right? We know we need to do something, and we're gonna be constrained by what it is,
the space that we have defined that we need to use. That's one constraint. And the other constraint
that we're gonna be constrained by is what is the, how much can we spend and actually get back? And
there's gonna be a lot of options there, but it'll set some parameters around and it won't look like the
first study.
- And I wonder if there's a way to reverse engineer that working with Ehlers, and what I mean by that
is to say, Hey, what is the impact on our bond rating? And if I'm thinking about this incorrectly, just
say so. What is the impact? Because, to the Mayor's point, we can bond a lot of money yet. But it's,
what is the impact of bonding that money?
- Well, and it is a trade off between your operating and expenses and the capital expense that you're
gonna have into the future that you to-
- Right, and so we can start to piece that together.
- Yeah, but you gotta play out.
- Right, so if we can say there's a round number, we can take on a million dollars of debt. Okay, but a
million dollars of debt actually gets us one and a half million because we're gonna bring in taxes from
this site, we're gonna bring in savings on maintenance.
- Yeah.
- You know what I mean? So we can at least, but if we know what the payment out is that we can
absorb, I think it helps us start to reverse engineer some of that.
- It'll define very quickly what your possibilities are.
- Yeah.
- And maybe even if it's a tiered thing, and I don't know if it would shake up that way, but a million
dollars has this impact, two million has that impact. So that we can start to weigh the pros and cons
of that impact, and is it worth taking on or not?
- [Garritt] It sounds like you're making a motion.
- Well I think there are two things, again, that have to be decided today that could be in one motion.
And in one of course would be the space needs study, if that's a necessity. I think we can just direct
Diana to start coming up with some of that information. But the other piece are the critical needs.
And then to the Mayor's point, if we send this over to Finance Committee, I think we'll put that into
a motion as well, to send this over to Finance Committee to make decisions about those immediate
needs.
- That still has to be defined, what, so we have immediate, and I think, what was it, immediate and?
- It's deficient-
- Deficient and critical?
- Mm hm.
- Mm hm.
- So we have deficient and critical, it's even amongst that category, there was a need to define what
must be done now and what potentially could be dependent on a future decision about what we do
with the other buildings.
- Yeah.
- Mm hm.
- Yeah, and I think staff, I'm counting on staff working with BSA to be able to make that
recommendation.
- And then does that have to come back here or do we-
- No, I think that goes to Finance, because they'll have the binding authority to make those financial
impact decisions.
- I think that sounds very, I'm totally on board with that.
- And we can separate that into two motions. We can combine it into one. But if everybody's not on
board with the space needs, it probably makes sense to host that motion separately.
- Well, I would we make the motion to direct Finance staff to work with BSA on the deficient needs
and the critical needs, and bring that forward to the Finance Committee for discussion and possible
action.
- Okay.
- Second.
- A motion by Mayor Genrich. A second by Jesse there. Is there any further discussion on that
motion? Seeing none, all those in favor say aye?
- [Committee Members] Aye.
- Opposed?
- I'll abstain from that.
- Okay. So that motion carries, with one abstention. So then we're back to the other point, which is
the space needs study.
- I think it's, in my mind it's very difficult, and I'm not the building person or the real estate person,
but it's very difficult to understand how to go forward if I don't have a better understanding of the
use of the current spaces. And so I feel like that's just like one of those key things that we need to
understand.
- [Garritt] Like looking at it as more as a flow analysis rather than a need study. 'Cause I think it's fair,
everything that Chet brought up before, the joke about how big of a house would you need, very
true. But I think we heard the major things today the Chief talked about, to understand those major
items in the context of current envelope, I think is very important, especially for that building.
- Well and could you very quickly have a better understanding of Police's needs? If you took the Bray
study, there has to be some square footages outlined by department.
- Yep.
- And you are comparing that to the current facility square footage, and then you're just saying, okay,
well they had-
- Triple this, double that?
- Yeah. Is that really accurate or not? And maybe you're coming up with the in-between square
footage of what they really need at Police as opposed to the, so now all of a sudden you've
pinpointed is there an addition over here on this site? You've narrowed it down.
- And I would say, I don't know that you're trying to get the porridge just right. I think the
benchmarking remark that you made earlier in the reference that you made to a colleague in that
space probably has the best ability to say this is really, within about this range is really where you
want hit. Maybe Bray's way over here, and we're up here.
- I agree. 'Cause the benchmarking is things that actually got done.
- Right.
- Someone finally put into action and got the support to make it happen.
- Yeah.
- The other thing that I think about is, you don't need to conduct a big study to say, okay, I'm about
to go sell this to our community. So tell me what you're going to be able to do with this new process
flow? And you'll watch either the ideas, "I saw at one time" or "This has huge merit."
- Right. Being the finance guy, I would lead with numbers and then talking, talk about the flow.
- Right.
- But later, but it's gotta come in, it's gotta come down, it's gotta make financial sense.
- Mm hm.
- Right.
- But what I'm saying is, we're justifying needing space based off of this is what we are gonna be able
to do with it. And if you can't even support that argument, then you are likely gonna have a hard time
justifying the space, number one. And number two, figuring how to pay for the space.
- [Garritt] I would hope it'd be the other way around. This is where I would put a lot of faith in what
would come back in this review. I think the word study is bad right now, but review is, let's see the
current envelope, where are the mechanicals and where the plumbing lines, physically, what could
blob where they're wanting it to be? And then what does not fit in the current envelope? That way
you kind of know it's not really a, we're not building a playground. Here's what you could fit in here
based on where all those existing mechanicals and lines are and here's what you would have to
consider doing off to a side . That way if you can take space that right now is being used for
something, but this is where you build out two brand new sets of bathrooms, 'cause it's where the
lines are. Great then what shifts and squeezes because of that? And where do we run out of space?
And that's what you're building. I think that's the goal here is not to give a free rein, but what do you
squeeze out. If we can do that, if that can be put into a motion, that's what I would make a motion to
do.
- Okay. I'm gonna give you an opportunity to articulate that.
- [Garritt] Motion to proceed with BSA for a review of, a flow review, not to exceed, was it 30,000,
was that the high end?
- And I guess to direct staff to either find the funding or bring it to Finance if additional funding is
required.
- Yes. Does that makes sense.
- So that is the motion. Is there a second?
- Second.
- Okay. Jesse seconded. Any...
- Well a point of discussion would be, is that review for which buildings? Is it just City Hall and Police?
- I think from what we've heard before is that City Hall's included in with that. So yes, I think you do
City Hall, Police Department. I think you also have the background of Muni Court in that thought
process to, at least applying that square footage that we talked about.
- I didn't hear big needs from Muni Court.
- Right.
- And again, it sounds like there is some work with Fire going on a little bit separately. So then we're
really just City Hall and the Police.
- Yeah, I think we're focused on that until that report from Fire is done.
- Yes.
- And then that report will come back here.
- Yeah.
- Mm hm.
- So this I would say gives us a path forward on the City Hall and Police. Without it, I don't know
what else we would we do.
- I understand your point about the flow. I would just also like to emphasize that the need to
understand the benchmarking across other communities, to get to the, what do people actually build
and what works?
- [Garritt] Is that part of what you were mentioning? I'm sorry.
- Yeah.
- [Garritt] Contacting that one individual?
- Yeah. I'm gonna reach out to him. And get a sense as to where he's at. And I'm wondering if part of
this isn't him spending a couple of days here and really just maybe having elements of this committee
as part of that discussion too. So it fully meets the needs of this committee when it comes back. And
we're not spending dollars, but really answering the questions. And I think he has the knowledge,
based off of all the other stuff that he's done in this field, that we can say, okay. I think the other thing
is like, is there a different way to skin this cat? Is there a whole different financing piece? Is there a
whole different development piece? Does the city have to borrow the money? Or is it a public
private partnership? Or is it something completely different? I have no idea.
- I'm not opposed to that. And we've talked about this, even with the Fire Station. We've seen that in
other communities where they have the fire station, the condos are up above. So I'm definitely not
opposed to that, but I think for us to even get to that level.
- Right.
- What do we actually need?
- I think the benchmarking isn't gonna be that hard to do, and I think it's gonna be very telling. So the
gentleman that said, there's 200 people that report here, that would tell you that unless the city is
four times less efficient than the City of Kaukauna, either the departments that they're comparing to
aren't the same. So I can see going to the surrounding communities and saying, okay, Bellevue, how
how large is your this, this, this, your fire station, and your city, your municipal building, and what
services are housed within there? Okay, move on, go to another four or five neighboring
communities. And it starts to tell the story of these are buildings that exist, these are models of
buildings that seem to be functioning appropriately. And right off the gate, it kind of is confirming
what we're now hearing when we interview the Police Chief, and coming back with a space needs
that might be 1.5 times what we currently have. Well that actually aligns perfectly with what we
found in the neighboring municipalities.
- Yeah. Right.
- So they're not-
- It reinforces it as opposed to-
- Yeah.
- Yeah. They're not being egregious and asking for something and that, I want to make sure that I say
this at the table, 'cause never my point of bringing up the opposition, to me, if you can get past some
internal constructive criticism, the chance of the project actually growing legs and moving forward
gets better. If you can pass the threshold of financing and figuring out what's reasonable to afford.
- You'll never get an argument from me for being financially prudent about how we proceed.
- And just in terms of benchmarking, this isn't a huge point, but neighboring communities not always
the most relevant. I think looking at Appleton, Eau Claire, La Crosse, Kenosha, Racine, communities
of like size are probably better fits than a Bellevue.
- I would agree. Because you could also make the statement, you have some urban resources that
they are not addressing in a suburban environment.
- Sure. Right.
- Totally support that. Yeah, but you also don't have, you're not serving this population in the way
that we are. Which is why we have this branch that doesn't show up in your org chart.
- Mm hm.
- You have in, certainly in a benchmark, you would have to be cognizant of, well, how old is that
facility that you're benchmarking against? And what is the growth projection for what you need in the
future?
- Sure.
- So there's a little bit of-
- Oh yeah, for sure. There's no point using a municipality that's going to be building a new city hall in
five years when that's their benchmark now. So, obviously, they need to be relevant to the case that's
being made. But I agree, I think if you can get that benchmarking and you can find that path and the
logic behind it, then it starts to make sense, and so, okay. No other police department has all 48
vehicles under cover.
- Right.
- But maybe they're in a different climate. And so what does that mean for us?
- Right.
- Mm hm.
- So we have a motion active on the table. We're in the discussion point.
- And a second.
- Okay.
- Okay, so any more discussion on that specific motion? All those in favor say aye?
- [Committee Members] Aye.
- Opposed?
- I'm gonna abstain.
- Yep. So that motion carries with one abstention. Is there any other motions? Any other discussion?
- [Garritt] Motion to adjourn.
- Oh, I have one.
- Yes.
- What would be hugely helpful for me as a committee member is can we get the current floor plans
for these, any building that was conducted in the study? Just a stapled PDF or some, I have not, I'm
guilty of having stepped foot in some of the buildings we're talking about.
- I think the plans are in the original reports.
- Okay.
- I know we have them.
- Would it be helpful if, for the committee, if we had a tour of the two buildings?
- Oh, yeah.
- Absolutely.
- Absolutely.
- Absolutely.
- Absolutely.
- Yeah. Okay, so Diana, are you the staff liaison for this group?
- [Diana] Yes, I can help-
- Okay. Could you help facilitate that? Thank you. And maybe throw Muni Court on there too, just
because it's next door.
- Yeah.
- Close, and easy to knock out.
- Mm hm.
- Okay. And let me, as I said, let me reach out to my contact and see if he can't be here as part of
that as well. So that you guys have access to him. And whatever you share your thoughts on.
- That'd be great.
- That would be awesome.
- That's a really good idea.
- Yeah.
- Yeah. No, that's a great idea.
- Yeah.
- Great. Okay. Anything else? Otherwise I think we had a motion to adjourn.
- Yes.
- Somebody did that?
- Second.
- Second by Mayor Genrich. Those in favor say aye?
- [Committee Members] Aye.
- Opposed? Motion carries. All right. Thank you, everybody, for your time.
- Thank you.
- Thank you.
- It's a good discussion today.
- We'll see you both tomorrow.
- No, that's a really good discussion. And not something we're capable of doing in.
Agenda
AGENDA OF THE AD HOC FACILITIES
COMMITTEE
TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 15, 2022, 11:00 AM
Room 310
A. Roll Call.
B. Approval of the Agenda.
C. Approval of Minutes.
1. Approval of the Ad Hoc Facilities Committee minutes from the February 21, 2022 meeting.
D. Regular Business.
1. Consideration with possible action the review of the Facilities Assessment Updates for City
Hall, Municipal Court, Police Station, and Fire Station #1.
E. Adjournment.
1) THIS MEETING IS RECORDED: THE VIDEO OF THIS MEETING AND MINUTES ARE AVAILABLE ONLINE
AT www.greenbaywi.gov
2) ACCESSIBILITY: Any person wishing to attend who requires special accommodation because of a disability,
should contact the City Safety Manager at 920-448-3125 at least 48 hours before the scheduled meeting time so
that arrangements can be made.
3) QUORUM: Please take notice that a majority or quorum of the Common Council will attend this Ad Hoc
Facilities Committee meeting and will constitute a meeting of the Common Council for purposes of discussion
and information gathering relative to this agenda.
4) QUORUM: Please take notice that a majority or quorum of the Finance Committee will attend this Ad Hoc
Facilities Committee meeting and will constitute a meeting of the Finance Committee for purposes of discussion
and information gathering relative to this agenda.
5) REPRESENTATION: The party requesting the communication, or their representative, should be present at this
meeting.
Agenda of the Ad Hoc Facilities Committee
November 15, 2022
Page 1
Packet
AGENDA OF THE AD HOC FACILITIES
COMMITTEE
TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 15, 2022, 11:00 AM
Room 310
A. Roll Call.
B. Approval of the Agenda.
C. Approval of Minutes.
1. Approval of the Ad Hoc Facilities Committee minutes from the February 21, 2022 meeting.
D. Regular Business.
1. Consideration with possible action the review of the Facilities Assessment Updates for City
Hall, Municipal Court, Police Station, and Fire Station #1.
E. Adjournment.
1) THIS MEETING IS RECORDED: THE VIDEO OF THIS MEETING AND MINUTES ARE AVAILABLE ONLINE
AT www.greenbaywi.gov
2) ACCESSIBILITY: Any person wishing to attend who requires special accommodation because of a disability,
should contact the City Safety Manager at 920-448-3125 at least 48 hours before the scheduled meeting time so
that arrangements can be made.
3) QUORUM: Please take notice that a majority or quorum of the Common Council will attend this Ad Hoc
Facilities Committee meeting and will constitute a meeting of the Common Council for purposes of discussion
and information gathering relative to this agenda.
4) QUORUM: Please take notice that a majority or quorum of the Finance Committee will attend this Ad Hoc
Facilities Committee meeting and will constitute a meeting of the Finance Committee for purposes of discussion
and information gathering relative to this agenda.
5) REPRESENTATION: The party requesting the communication, or their representative, should be present at this
meeting.
Agenda of the Ad Hoc Facilities Committee
November 15, 2022
Page 1
MINUTES OF THE AD HOC FACILITIES
COMMITTEE
MONDAY, FEBRUARY 21, 2022, 10:00 AM
Virtual Meeting. Public may join via Zoom.
A. ZOOM MEETING INFORMATION.
1. This item contains Zoom information, instructions, and a link to the Virtual Comment Form.
B. ROLL CALL.
Present: Eric Genrich, Barbara Dorff, Brian Johnson, Jesse Sharp, Garritt Bader, Chet Lamers, Ian
Griffiths, Paul Martzke.
Also present: Finance Director Diana Ellenbecker, Public Works Director Steve Grenier, Parks
Director Dan Ditscheit, Assistant City Attorney Lindsay Mather, Chief of Operations Joe Faulds,
Police Chief Chris Davis and others.
C. APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA.
Moved by Ald. Brian Johnson, seconded by Ald. Barbara Dorff to approve the agenda.
Motion Passed.
Yes- Eric Genrich, Barbara Dorff, Brian Johnson, Jesse Sharp, Garritt Bader, Chet Lamers, Ian
Griffiths, Paul Martzke
Moved by Ald. Brian Johnson, seconded by Ald. Barbara Dorff to reconsider the agenda.
Motion Passed.
Yes- Eric Genrich, Barbara Dorff, Brian Johnson, Jesse Sharp, Garritt Bader, Chet Lamers, Ian
Griffiths, Paul Martzke
Moved by Ald. Brian Johnson, seconded by Chet Lamers to to move Item #1 & #2 of Regular
Business to the bottom of the agenda..
Motion Passed.
Yes- Eric Genrich, Brian Johnson, Jesse Sharp, Garritt Bader, Chet Lamers, Ian Griffiths, Paul Martzke
Moved by Garritt Bader, seconded by Ald. Brian Johnson to approve the amended agenda.
Motion Passed.
Yes- Eric Genrich, Brian Johnson, Jesse Sharp, Garritt Bader, Chet Lamers, Ian Griffiths, Paul Martzke
D. REGULAR BUSINESS.
1. Consideration with possible action to appoint a Chair.
Moved by Ian Griffiths, seconded by Garritt Bader to approve Brian Johnson as Chair.
Motion Passed.
Yes- Eric Genrich, Brian Johnson, Jesse Sharp, Garritt Bader, Chet Lamers, Ian Griffiths, Paul Martzke
2. Consideration with possible action to appoint a Vice Chair.
Moved by Ald. Brian Johnson, seconded by Ian Griffiths to approve Paul Martzke as Vice Chair.
Motion Passed.
Yes- Eric Genrich, Brian Johnson, Jesse Sharp, Garritt Bader, Chet Lamers, Ian Griffiths, Paul Martzke
3. Communication by Ald. Johnson approved by Common Council on 6-1-2021 to approve the
creation of an ad-hoc committee to assess the feasibility and necessity of a unified municipal building
to include city hall, police, fire and municipal court and for the Committee to include appointees as
selected by the Mayor with a least two city council members, a Mayors office representative, 4-5
community members and appropriate City department heads and to report out to Finance
Committee.
Moved by Ald. Brian Johnson, seconded by Paul Martzke to receive and place on file.
Motion Passed.
Yes- Eric Genrich, Brian Johnson, Jesse Sharp, Garritt Bader, Chet Lamers, Ian Griffiths, Paul Martzke
4. Overview of the Berners Schober 2015 evaluation of City-owned facilities by Director of Public
Works.
Moved by Ald. Brian Johnson, seconded by Paul Martzke to receive and place on file.
Motion Passed.
Yes- Eric Genrich, Brian Johnson, Jesse Sharp, Garritt Bader, Chet Lamers, Ian Griffiths, Paul Martzke
5. Overview of the current status of City Hall by Parks Director.
Moved by Ald. Brian Johnson, seconded by Garritt Bader to receive and place on file.
Motion Passed.
Yes- Eric Genrich, Brian Johnson, Jesse Sharp, Garritt Bader, Chet Lamers, Ian Griffiths, Paul Martzke
6. Overview of Bray Architects presentations.
Moved by Ald. Brian Johnson, seconded by Garritt Bader to receive and place on file.
Motion Passed.
Yes- Eric Genrich, Brian Johnson, Jesse Sharp, Garritt Bader, Chet Lamers, Ian Griffiths, Paul Martzke
7. Consideration with possible action the use of the remaining 2018 bonded money for Public Safety
building analysis of $34,361.60.
Moved by Paul Martzke, seconded by Garritt Bader to dedicate funds to update the studies related
to the City Hall, Police, Fire and Municipal Court buildings as well as review the operational costs of
these buildings.
Motion Passed.
Yes- Eric Genrich, Brian Johnson, Jesse Sharp, Garritt Bader, Chet Lamers, Ian Griffiths, Paul Martzke
8. Determine next meeting date.
Moved by Ald. Brian Johnson, seconded by Garritt Bader to receive and place on file.
Motion Passed.
Yes- Eric Genrich, Brian Johnson, Jesse Sharp, Garritt Bader, Chet Lamers, Ian Griffiths, Paul Martzke
E. ADJOURNMENT.
Moved by Ald. Brian Johnson, seconded by Ian Griffiths to adjourn.
Motion Passed.
Yes- Eric Genrich, Brian Johnson, Jesse Sharp, Garritt Bader, Chet Lamers, Ian Griffiths, Paul Martzke
F. VERBATIM MINUTES.
- I will call to order the meeting of the Ad-Hoc Facilities Committee for Monday, February 21st, 2022. I believe
we have six members present, but I'll do a roll call. Mayor Genrich is here, Ian Griffiths.
- Here.
- Paul Martzke.
- Here.
- Alder Barb Dorff.
- Here.
- Alder Brian Johnson.
- Here.
- Garritt Bader.
- Here.
- Jesse Sharp. And then Chet is also not here, but we'll keep the roll open, hoping that they join us shortly. I
will entertain a motion to approve the agenda.
- So moved.
- So moved.
- Motion to approve-
- Seconded.
- Motion to approve the agenda made by Alder Johnson, seconded by Alder Dorff, all in favor, signify by saying
aye.
- Aye.
- Aye.
- Aye.
- Aye.
- Opposed nay? The ayes have it, and the agenda has been approved. Now onto regular business, and before
we get into the items, just wanna thank you all for joining us, especially our citizen members. We've got a tall
order and promise a lot of weighty questions to attend to, so really appreciate our citizen attendance and the
expertise that all of you bring to bear on some of these questions. So looking forward to a good discussion
over the coming months, hopefully to bring forward some recommendations, both to our Finance Committee,
as well as our common council. Also wanna- And looks like we have Chet joining us, so appreciate that.
Thanks all also to our alders for their attendance and Alder Johnson for bringing this item, item number three
forward, and then really that's the reason why we're here. We've kind of expanded the scope a bit to capture
what Alder Johnson was trying to accomplish there, in item three, just understanding that we have a lot of
facility needs across the city and felt like it made a lot of sense to expand the scope a bit, but also to capture
the idea behind the alder's communication. I think there are a number of people in City Hall, including
Director Grenier, for example, who have thought that it would make sense actually to have a facilities manager
working for the City of Green Bay, I believe Alder Johnson has made similar point. I've had similar thoughts
and so just don't want to overly narrow the scope of this discussion, we wanna capture the most important
item in front of us, which is that item three, but wanna encourage folks on the committee to think broadly
about what we think our needs are as a community, both as an organization and sort of the footprint that we
occupy here in the City of Green Bay. So again, thanks to everyone for attending, we do have just about
everyone on board here, but I think before we get to the first item there, maybe we can go around for some
introductions. I don't know that we all know one another. So I'm mayor Eric Genrich, really glad to be part of
this committee, and then I'll just kick things over to Ian Griffiths and maybe he can pass the baton from there.
- Ian Griffiths, Berners-Schober Associates, architects, engineers here in Green Bay been around since, not
myself, but the company since 1898, been involved with the city for many of those years. And actually part of
the packet that you see in front of you of the thousand pages came out of our office, so very familiar with the
Green Bay city facilities. Over to you, Paul.
- Thank you, Ian, Paul Martzke, I'm President of Green Bay based Immel Construction, been working in Green
Bay for about the last 25 years. In a past life I was actually the design architect for two facilities for the City of
Green Bay, the Municipal Court and Fire Station number four and Immel consistently bids and hopes to
construct facility projects for the city. So very much interested in what we're about to try and do here. I also
am the Vice Chair of the city's Landmarks Commission, which deals with historic preservation efforts. So thank
you, I'll turn it over to, how about Garritt Bader?
- Good morning, Garritt Bader, GB Real Estate Investments. My hope on being on this is to lend a little bit of
real estate voice to some decision making that may be made where facilities should be located and how it
makes sense, not only for that facility, but maybe even ones that would be moved or used differently as a
result of this process, so look forward to being involved And I think things have shifted now, so let's go over
to Brian, I guess. I dunno if you guys want to, but.
- Sure, Brian Johnson, Alderman for the near West Side in pending the outcome of the April 5th election, that
district, District 9, would also include, what's an affectionately referred to as the Sliver on the River on the
East Side. So roughly, a big chunk of the downtown area and then my full-time job, Executive Director of. So
wide variety of backgrounds and experience, including small business ownerships, some real estate stuff. So
with that, I guess, actually Alder Dorff, if you don't mind, I'm gonna refer to Jesse Sharp who just joined the
call.
- I apologize for joining late. So I work for Schneider National, I lead up the shared financial services, been in
Green Bay for a little over 20 years, and I know a few of you personally, so I'm glad to be here.
- He doesn't know the rules, he has to pick the next person.
- That was unfair.
- I didn't hear that part, so I joined.
- And you don't even know who's left, so I'm left and I think Chet is left.
- Right, go ahead, Barb.
- Okay, I'm Alder Barbara Dorff and I was appointed by Mayor Schmitt to the original Ad-hoc Facilities
Commission. And then recently by Mayor Genrich, to this Ad-Hoc Facilities Commission. I don't wanna throw
a gears here, but Alder Johnson and I are both on finance. Do we constitute a negative quorum?
- That's a fair question. I don't know if Attorney Bungert is with us this morning.
- [Man] I can go find out Mayor, I'll be right back.
- Okay, I'll continue then. And so I represent District 1, far, far, far East side, a very large land wise, the largest
district. Used to be the Executive Director of Pupil Services for Green Bay Area Public Schools, in charge of
school security and all kinds of other things. And I work with the school security, I guess, throughout the State
of Wisconsin, in addition to doing my alder work. Thanks.
- Thanks Alder, and then I think our only remaining member is Chet Lamers, go ahead Chet.
- Good morning, everyone, my name is Chet Lamers, I currently work at NWTC in the role of Director of
Facilities. I've been doing that for about 12 years, so my back background is in both architecture and urban
planning. I helped to lead the technical college about five years ago through a major expansion referendum that
included all different sectors, transportation, college of business, acquisition of property that we had previously
rented. So I'm very excited to have been asked to be on the committee and glad to help move this project
forward if that's the end conclusion. Good morning, everyone.
- Thanks for joining us Chet and thanks again, to everybody who's participated. 'Cause I think we all
understand given those introductions, we're really blessed with a bunch of expertise offered by our citizen
membership as well as our alders, so really appreciate the participation. So given the introductions that we, I
think we can move along to an item one under regular business consideration with possible action to appoint a
Chair. So I would-
- Mayor would you wanna approve the agenda first?
- We did.
- Okay, I apologize, thank you.
- Yep, no problem. So if there's anyone who's interested in serving as Chair, you can nominate yourself, or if
you've asked somebody to do that, I would entertain those nominations as well.
- And everybody jump at once, huh?
- Right, and we could certainly have a discussion about what that would entail. If people have questions about
the responsibilities of a Chair for a body like this.
- Mayor, my question would be, would it be best for the city to have whomever is the Chair possibly also be a
resident of the City of Green Bay, which I am not, but I just bring that to the table, is there an advantage to
thinking about it that way?
- Yeah, that's a good question. Obviously, with your role at NWTC, on the kind of the professional side of
things, you have a big presence in the City of Green Bay. I don't know that that you'd be excluded from serving
as Chair because your residence is outside of it, but certainly a good question.
- Mayor could someone, whether it's you or someone else maybe speak to, I think the alders here probably
have a strong understanding of what Chairs typically do, but maybe for the benefit of others, just kinda talk
about scope of responsibility.
- Yeah, absolutely, it's a good question. You know, first and foremost, the Chair's responsibility is to run the
meeting. So to have some familiarity with Robert's rules, would be helpful, but that's not a necessary
prerequisite, it's a pretty simple process, especially at the committee level. But that's the primary responsibility,
in addition to that, the Chair would work with Diana as our finance director to put together our agendas prior
to our meetings. So those would be the big responsibilities, ultimately, if this committee moves forward with
some recommendations for the city that the Chair's in favor of, it would be helpful to have them involved in
some of the advocacy work as well. But would defer to both Alders Johnson and Alder Dorff, if you have
other details.
- Yeah, and I think you kind of hit on the head, right? To me, I think the workload is not substantially more as
the Chair, it's really more of that parliamentarian, type of responsibility as sort of the gut feel that I had and I
just wanted to verify that.
- I think Garritt hit on great, but I'm not gonna nominate anyone.
- He just turned his camera on, so that's what I would.
- And I was gonna say Chet's asking about residents sounded like a not it called me, but anyway. Can I make a
suggestion that maybe I know we approved the agenda, can we maybe move these two items to the end and
let everyone have a feel for what we really need to talk about and then see if the on itself at the end?
- Yeah, I think that's-
- Can I have a motion to reconsider the agenda?
- Second.
- Okay, motion has been made by Alder Johnson, seconded by Alder Dorff to reconsider the agenda. All in
favor will signify by saying aye.
- [Panelists] Aye.
- Opposed nay? The ayes have it, the agenda's before us.
- Then I would motion to amend the agenda.
- Oh, sorry.
- Yeah, I'm just trying to pull Mr. Bader there suggested two items and I'm pulling up the agenda, I don't know
what those two were.
- We can put item one and two at the foot of the calendar?
- Okay, so yeah, we'll put those right at the end. That's the motion.
- Alder Johnson has made a motion to amend the agenda, to put items one and two of regular business at the
bottom of the agenda, is there a second?
- I can second.
- Seconded by Mr. Lamers. All in favor will signify by saying aye.
- [Panelists] Aye.
- Opposed nay? The ayes have it and the agenda has been amended. Entertain a motion to approve the agenda
as amended.
- Motion to approve.
- Second.
- Motion to approve the agenda as amended by Mr. Bader, seconded by Alder Johnson, all in favor signify by
saying, aye.
- [Panelists] Aye.
- Opposed nay? The ayes have it. And that has been approved. So onto item three under regular business. And
this is the communication that I was referencing earlier, I'll just read through it so that everybody has an
understanding of one of the reasons that we're here. So communication by Alder Johnson approved by
common council on 6-1-2021 to approve the creation of an ad-hoc committee to assess the feasibility and
necessity of a unified municipal building to include City Hall, police, fire, and municipal court, and for the
committee to include appointees as selected by the Mayor with at least two City Council members. A mayor's
office representative, four to five community members and appropriate city department heads, and to report
out . This was your communication Alder Johnson, do you have any additional comments?
- Yeah, I'll just give a little bit of context, thank you, Mayor for that. So what really kind of started this for me
was taking a look, City Council started doing a five year capital improvement plan. So rather than just looking
at bonding requests, one year at a time, we were taking a look at five years at a time and what was potentially
coming down the pike so that we could kind of better manage some of those expectations. And when the five
year capital improvement plan came out, looking at the Parks Department, so for those not familiar, the Parks
Department does oversee City Hall. And so there was I believe and I'm sure Director Ditscheit will talk about
this when he gives his overview. But I believe there were about $10 million worth of bonding requests for
repairs to City Hall. And so recognizing that the Police Department has also had some conversations about a
public safety building as Alder Dorff alluded to, she had served on a committee on that in the past as well. I
think I saw it as an opportunity for us to have a holistic conversation about, hey, what if we combined the
police department or public safety building with City Hall, use that $10 million, leverage that in a slightly
different way while still meeting our overall long-term facility needs. So I appreciate that the mayor and staff,
have all also considered some of our other facilities, not in the communication, I think that's a smart approach.
It's a good time for us to even talk about staffing such as the facility manager, could that perhaps be a
recommendation if it makes sense to come out of this body as well. But from my understanding, having talked
to the previous Chief of Staff, Celine Jeffries, talking to Director Ellenbecker, and others, that there historically
has not been a group of all represented department heads around this topic are certainly not in a public forum.
So I just think it was a good opportunity for us to try this one more time, but bringing all of the needed
experts to the table, including representatives from the public. So that was kind of the impetus behind this.
- Thanks Alder appreciate that background. And I do see, we have Attorney Mather here, who's probably
gonna give us some unfortunate news related to quorum. So Attorney Mather, go ahead.
- Well with an introduction like that. Good morning, everyone. Yes, so I did consult with Claire Silverman at
the League of Wisconsin Municipalities, just to double-check. But because there are issues that may end up
before the Finance Committee at a future date, and there is an issue on this particular agenda that does
specifically relate to the use of funds, which obviously would fall within the Finance Committee's purview.
There is an issue with a negative quorum if we have two finance committee members here. So I would suggest
that you defer by seniority and so-
- Oh no, no, please don't, please don't suggest that. Let me just say, first of all, I am so sorry that I didn't catch
this before, because it was when the Mayor this morning said the word finance that it just impacted on my
brain. So I was on the other Ad-Hoc Committee, this one was Alder Johnson's, I know I'm senior here, but
Alder Johnson, do you want to be on this committee? I guess that's just what I think is fair, I don't know.
- Well, could it maybe even a point of order for Attorney Mather on this as well, is the issue because of item
number seven, related to the finance committee decision. And if that is the case, is it possible for just one of us
to abstain from that vote?
- So it's not a matter of just not voting on the issue, it's actually even discussing the issue together.
- Shit, I was hoping I could just stay on as a member, nonvoting member, I was gonna offer that, but now, I
can't even discuss it?
- But we do that with every other committee. How is this different?
- Just maybe not as a named member, I mean, I guess to get around it, we could appoint another alder instead.
And I need to apologize 'cause I'm the one that made the appointments. And so just felt given Alder Dorff's
background and expertise, it made sense to have her along with Alder Johnson. Director Grenier seeking
recognition?
- Thank you, Assistant City Attorney Mather, we do have the standard language at the end of the agenda,
indicating that please take notice that a majority or quorum of the common council will attend this ad hoc
committee and will constitute a meeting of the common council for purposes of discussion and information
gathering relative to the agenda. Could we amend that statement to simply also include the finance committee
by name at future meetings, thereby avoiding this?
- Good question.
- I think Steve missed his calling as an attorney.
- Please don't suggest that to him Alder. Let me actually look into that, I don't wanna give you a definite
answer right now, I need to look at that language a little bit more closely, but that's definitely something that I
can look into, I just don't wanna give you a straight yes or no right now without looking into it a little bit more.
- I believe we may have used that on similar types of issues in the past 'cause the intent is to make sure that we
are providing public notice, that we may have a group that could be constituting, a quorum of either the
common council or the committee in providing proper public. It's not that it's prohibited, we need to be able
to provide proper public notice, which we may not have done for this meeting. But again, I think we have used
that language or some derivative there of on prior similar types of issues in order to get the city protected.
- Alder Dorff.
- And then to be safe, could I just please abstain from all votes today? I mean, I'm sorry, I made some motions
and such, but see if Alder Johnson and I go and join improvement services, which we do and we talk and we
give our opinions and you know what, there's six of us there, we're a negative quorum for counsel when six
people are there. So I would be happy to just pull back from my vote today with that help Attorney Mather?
- So that language, that Director Grenier just pointed out at the end of the agenda that actually addresses the
circumstance where two of you may attend another standing committee and there may be six of you, so then
there's a negative quorum. But it's a little bit different here because you guys happen to be on the same
standing committee. And unfortunately, so up until now, you weren't aware that there was a quorum issue. So
now that you've been made aware of, really the only way to... Are you guys gonna lose quorum if one of them
leaves? I think really the only way to address it for today is for one of you to leave this meeting. 'Cause as I
said before, just discussing any of the items, is a problem as far as open meetings goes.
- Okay, but I shouldn't have to leave 'cause any other alder could just join the meeting. I shouldn't discuss, I
shouldn't say a word, but I shouldn't have to leave. 'Cause I could turn off my video, but I am an alder, I'm
allowed to come to this meeting.
- Except that we have this negative quorum issue.
- But as a voting member, yep, or just take me off right now and I'll be part of the committee and come to
every meeting, vote me off the island. I'm still gonna give my expertise and my experience to this committee.
But you can vote me off the island right now and I'll just stay, then I'm okay.
- I understand what you're saying, I don't have a great answer for you right at this moment. I am certainly going
to look at the language that Director Grenier pointed out and figure out if there is a way that we can modify
that to apply to the various standing committees. That's a very good point that the circumstance may arise
anytime to people of the same standing committee attend any other standing committee or non-standing
committee for that matter. So it's definitely something that I'm going to look into, however, at this moment,
regardless of what I find out, that language isn't on the agenda. So at this moment, there's not anything that we
can do to modify that. So I'm not saying in perpetuity, I'm just saying for today.
- Am I allowed to listen, but not be on as myself? Am I allowed to listen to what goes on today, so I have a
grasp in case I am on it again? Am I allowed to listen?
- I would recommend that you leave, the meeting is being recorded so you can watch it later.
- Okay, I'll watch it later. See ya.
- Thanks, Alder Dorff, apologies for the complication here.
- That's okay, I brought it up.
- Yeah, glad you did. You obviously wanna be doing things the right way, so appreciate that.
- Thank you.
- And hopefully we'll see you at the next meeting in a different capacity or maybe in the same one, if we can
get the language right.
- And I'll try, I will listen to this meeting before the next meeting, thank you.
- Thanks Alderman. Chief Faulds.
- I just wanna make sure we're clear on this, Attorney Mather, the language about the quorum is at the bottom
of the agenda, right? Am I seeing that correctly? Okay, so I thought maybe you thought it was not there. Right,
we're good.
- No, it's there, but it specifies just common council, it doesn't directly address any individual committee. And
that's the issue that we have here is that both alders are on the Finance Committee.
- Gotcha.
- Thank you.
- Yeah.
- All right, well, a lot of parliamentary fun, especially for our citizen members today, apologies for that. Any
additional discussion on item three on Alder Johnson's communication? Any questions for him or thoughts that
others wanna share?
- Mayor, I just wanna be in compliance, I guess, if Alder exiting the meeting because of that, do we have to
reconsider anything that she's motioned or seconded?
- Yeah, that's probably a fair question. Director Ellenbecker do you have her recorded on any of those votes? I
can't recall.
- Yes, I believe that she helped approve the agenda. I believe Alder Johnson made the motion and Alder Dorff
seconded the agenda.
- Okay, but actually that was the original agenda, but then we reconsidered it and actually the reconsideration
was Garritt Bader and Brian Johnson.
- Okay, so we should be okay?
- I think so.
- Okay, thanks and thanks for that question, Alder Johnson. Any more discussion on item three?
- A motion to receive and place on file.
- Entertain a second.
- Second.
- Second.
- Alder Johnson makes a motion to receive and place on file item D three, that was seconded by Mr. Martzke.
All in favor, signify by saying, aye.
- [Panelists] Aye.
- Nay? The ayes have it, and we are onto item four, over view of the Berners Schober 2015 evaluation of city
owned facilities by Director of Public Works, Steve Grenier. Director Grenier.
- Okay, thank you. Back in 2014, Department of Public Works had a number of projects at our East and West
facilities and needed to prioritize those facility needs. So we sought bonding money through the, I believe 2014
bond issue, to complete a facilities evaluation for our East and West side garages. As we were preparing the
scope for that, received outreach, I think we contact police fire parks who have the majority of the other city
owned facilities, identified what we were doing, and it was later determined that the funding we had sought
was enough to get a comprehensive building evaluation for all city owned facilities. So we contracted with
Berners Schober Associates, who's been a longtime partner of the city to complete a facilities evaluation on all
city facilities. Copies of those reports that were completed in 2015 by Berners Schober Associates are
included as part of the packet. And as you can see what BSA looked at was a variety of different activities, such
as the electrical system, mechanical system, structural building envelope. The intent was to provide low,
medium, and high priority repairs that needed to be completed. And since the original preparation of those
documents in 2015, all departments have been using those documents as a guide for completing both
maintenance and capital repair projects on their facilities. A couple of years ago, the finance department began
development of a forward-looking five year capital improvements program and departments have been
forwarding projects that were developed out of the Berners Schober billing evaluation studies as part to their
capital improvement program. But what we don't have, we still have each department kinda operating
independently of each other, submitting individual projects. It has long been the position of the Department of
Public Works that a facilities management division needs to exist under city government that can prioritize the
building needs across a variety of different buildings, citywide, and would have the responsibility and oversight
for both maintenance and capital projects.
- Any comments from the committee or questions for Director Grenier? Understanding this is a very lengthy
document and we weren't expecting everyone to have read it before our first meeting.
- Mayor is this intended to be the basis for everything going forward? Not to say you should throw the baby
out with the bath water, but is this the foundation of what we're gonna be starting from?
- Well, I think at least from my point of view, it made sense to present all this to the committee. One
discussion that I was interested in having at this meeting, maybe down the line, was a question of Director
Grenier and others in the city, whether or not there are areas of this analysis that are in need and real need of
updating? There's some big gaps in what's been presented or if we still feel pretty confident in the information
that's been provided. So that's kinda way that I was looking at things.
- Was that a question Mayor?
- Yeah.
- I don't know if Mr. Bader wants a respond at all, but on that point, I would ask that question of you Director
Grenier if you have any kind of broad thoughts on the document.
- I think the document is still valid. If we look at the document and check the boxes as it were for projects that
have been completed since the document was published. However, given the fact that we last completed the
document in 2015, that is seven years, I would suggest that the document be revisited and updated.
- I think the main reason why I asked was for everyone on this committee to understand, or maybe at least
appreciate, is the focus largely police fire possible, City Hall building, or is it looking holistic at many of the
other facilities that were just referenced that Steve talked about that obviously would not be in such a facility
like that. Are there two focuses or how are we gonna be prioritizing our time in this committee?
- Yeah, I think from at least from my point of view, we want that focus to be on the original communication,
certainly. But if this is an opportunity to take another look at this analysis and make sure that we have
everything covered and updated. Like Director Grenier said, seven years is a long time, especially in this world,
especially given some of the changes that we've seen recently with supply chain challenges and other things. So
I would also invite, Mr. Griffiths, and sort, Mr. Martzke to weigh in on some of those questions and what they
think about the validity of this document and what you think maybe, some of the biggest weaknesses might be
given its age.
- Yes, certainly it was a snapshot in time. It was the facilities as they were seven years ago, for those items that
may have been, for example, five years past their useful life at that point are now five plus seven years past
their useful life. And so some of those issues that were identified as maybe tolerable, maybe more pressing
today. And so I think as the city looks to upgrade their buildings, I think it does need to be done in a
comprehensive manner. This is an individual building by building analysis, it is not a citywide analysis of
potential chess moves within it. And so I think the basis of the commission and for what's been put forth is
more of the chess move piece. But I see this document as a foundational document to kind of address the
magnitude of what is needed at each of these facilities, whether that's a facility that's either gonna be acquired
or a facility that's gonna be removed from the list, or what the operational costs are in some of these as well,
because not only are these maintenance items and ongoing costs, but we should also be considering what the
longterm operational costs of these facilities are as well. And that type of information is not what was
commissioned in this document and is not included in that. If that provides a little insight into it?
- Yeah, that's very helpful. Any others have comments or questions?
- Ian, from your perspective, when you look at something like this, is it easier to modify this report?
- I would say it's probably easier to modify, my guess is that as we go through this, it would be, I'm not sure
the magnitude of the items that have been dealt with that were high priority. If maybe just a quick analysis of
that would maybe steer me one way or another, but my gut reaction would be that there was a tremendous
amount of legwork that was done for this document, visiting each building with mechanical engineers, electrical
engineers, plumbing, fire protection, as well as architectural and structural. So to have that all revisited would
be a challenge or it's certainly possible, but that's a lot of leg work.
- And really, again, one of the original reasons why I asked was trying to understand a timeframe for what
results are expected of us and by when to perform certain actions. Ian just brought up a good point, which is
what facilities are moving versus which ones aren't. There may be many that need work, the focus of this is a
little bit more, again, selfishly kinda real estate play of what needs to move maybe to different locations, i.e,
police department, possible fire combination, that sort of thing. There's more the focus of this committee
versus some of those other facilities on the spreadsheet we saw which all maybe need work, but aren't
something that would move from the land on which they're currently residing.
- Yeah, certainly some of those buildings are park shelters and less consequential buildings. And it's likely that
those haven't changed a whole lot, but I certainly know like sixth floor, City Hall was remodeled in the last
couple of years. And so there are changes there, but I also know that there are infrastructure elements at City
Hall that addresses yet. So maybe we take the largest parts and pieces of these chess pieces and kind of define
which buildings are higher priority. And maybe that scope of work could be a little smaller and a little faster.
- Good thoughts. Others with questions or comments on this item?
- Whether it's now Mayor or later, I would make a motion at some point that the focus of the committee be
geared towards those major buildings or the ones that have the potential to move or largely relocate here at
some point.
- Yeah, and I don't know if, and we have item seven here, which relates to the funding, that's at our disposal,
arguably supplemented with other funds, whether they be federal or internal to the city. But I think we could
have that discussion down at item seven, but I'm open to the discussion right now as well. Okay, so not seeing
other comments here, I think it would make sense to maybe move along at this time to a presentation item
five, which is an overview of the current status of City Hall by our Parks Director, Dan Ditscheit.
- , action just to dispense of the previous item, just move to receive and place on file.
- Yep, very well, we have a second for that?
- Second.
- Alder Johnson makes motion to receive and place on file item four, seconded by Mr. Martzke. All in favor
signify by saying aye.
- [Panelists] Aye.
- Opposed nay?
- The ayes have it, Director Ditscheit.
- Yeah, so if you look at the agenda packet pages 969 to 974, that focus is a little bit more on City Hall, and the
report that BSA did in 2015 as it relates to City Hall. And then the very last page on 974 is a more detailed
analysis of that report that we've done recently with more detailed budgetary estimates of some of that work
along with a proposed phasing plan. So to step back a little bit in that report, what it states is that the majority
of the electrical and mechanical and roof are very old. So the building was built in the 1950s, those elements
have not been replaced since, other than probably the roof has been replaced in that timeline but the major
electrical components and mechanical components have not been replaced. The only thing that's been done in
City Hall with major renovations is we replaced the elevators a few years ago and we did a major renovation
to the sixth floor. The renovation to the sixth floor was more kind of office space restructuring and cosmetics
improvements. It wasn't looking at the HVAC in any great detail or electrical. So we're at the point right now
where it's an old building with very old mechanical and electrical systems where it's to the point where we
really have to start making some decisions as a city, what do we wanna do with those? A lot of these
components cannot be replaced anymore, we've been repairing them year to year as needed, but if we have
any major catastrophes to either the mechanical or electrical, I think it's fair to say that City Hall would be
down for months, potentially, depending on what happens, 'cause these fixes they're not cheap fixes, and by
the time you bid out the work and order the materials and do the installation, it'd be problematic to run City
Hall. So some of the bigger issues that need to be done is roof replacement. That in that report from 2015 said
it should be replaced in three to five years, it hasn't been replaced yet. If you look at that last page of proposed
fixes, you can see that that's kind of in year two and it's shown as $810,000 to replace that roof. The other
major need is replacing electrical. So right now, much of the electrical doesn't meet current code, and so we
can't replace like for like. We'd have to do everything different from how it is now, if we have a major failure.
So right now the transformers are in the basement and one of the utility rooms. By code those transformers
have to be outside of City Hall and show a cost there of 1.5 million to upgrade the electrical. So not only does
that move the transformers to outside of City Hall, but it also upgrades our power system infrastructure so
that we can support our key emergency servers. So if the power goes down, we're able to a retain service for
emergency situations as far as our servers go. In addition, that would also be replacing our diesel generator,
which is years old, so right now that generator is ancient. And then finally we would replace all of the main
panels and subpanels in the basement along with all the disconnects, which is those would also be replaced. So
it's a lot of work that would be done, and it's a large cost of 1.5 million. Now, if we do plan for this, we can
make these changes with very little disturbance to City Hall operations. So if you plan for it, you can phase it in
such a way that we could keep City Hall open the majority of the time and still . But if you have a catastrophic
failure, there's no way to phase that in, in any structured approach. And then the bigger expenses though, are
all the mechanical expenses. And this would be the HVAC systems, the water boilers, the air units, anything
like that. All of our units, as I mentioned, are original to the 1950s. It's hard to find replacement parts on the
equipment we have and when they do fail, which it's a matter of time when it's going to fail, we can't replace
like for like in these systems either, 'cause what we have right now does not meet current code. And so we
have to do things very differently when we're replacing these systems. So one of the biggest code issues with
the HVAC is the central portion of City Hall, which is a lot of the hallway space and also some of our interior
office spaces that don't face the windows. None of those have air ducts, and so that does not meet current
code, so there's no air returns, there's no venting in any of those buildings, and it's just currently reliant upon
air circulation underneath the doors or when the doors are open, and that's how you have the filtration of the
air system. And that just doesn't meet code now, so as part of this, one of the larger expenses is creating a big
air duct throughout all six floors of City Hall where you can get proper ventilation to the entire building in all
of the spaces. And then in addition, the boilers are currently in the basement, what's being proposed here is
those would go on the roof in a new utility penthouse expansion. So utility work or I'm sorry, HVAC and
mechanical work is roughly $5 million based on these current estimates that you see in here. And so what we
did recently is we worked with BSA to fine-tune the report from 2015. So we're pretty confident in the scope
of work for the electrical upgrades. We show that in kinda year one of 1.5 million, but we would have to do
additional exploration and engineering to design the mechanical systems. But we did a report in 2000 and we
worked with BSA to kind of refine the scope of work to what you see here, but we're not really set with the
final engineering of the mechanical and HVAC systems, but we are pretty set on the trickle modifications that
would need to be made. So like I said, just to summarize real quickly, everything's very old in this building, it's
out of date and it doesn't meet code. And it's just a matter of time when these facilities are going to fail. And if
we plan for the replacements in a structured approach, we can do it with very little disruption. If we don't plan
for it, it could be pretty severe if we have a problem.
- Thanks Director, questions or comments related to Director Ditscheit's presentation.
- Director D, do you know how many total square feet City Hall is, or maybe Ian, you might know that
number?
- That's probably in the report, Paul, if you've read it.
- And I don't know that off the top of my head.
- I don't either actually, we can get the square footages that's easy, we can get a breakdown of every building.
- Paul for rough estimates, I think it's about 13,000 square feet per floor, I was playing with that this morning,
so roughly multiply by six, not including your basement, of course, your HVAC penthouse.
- Now I do have just one more thing to add, and that is other renovations within City Hall. So throughout the
years, various different departments have requested different renovations on their floors. And those
renovations are not really taken into account in this current estimate of 6.5 million in repairs. So some of 'em
are going to have to be considered sooner than later. So Director Grenier can probably speak to this, but
probably the most important one that needs to be addressed sooner than later is some renovations to the
third floor. So right now all of the computer cabling really needs to be replaced on the third floor. And I
believe that estimate's around $100,000 but I don't know, I'd have to check that for sure. That's because we
have so many computer systems that need a lot of power. So right now it's very inadequate as far as our
computer service on the third floor. In addition, they're running out of usable off staff office space. So there's a
desire to renovate that meeting room in the third floor room 310 into additional office space for public works
employees. So that really is a renovation we should be considering sooner than later, but then there's a lot of
other renovations that different floors have requests. And if you look at that last page on 974, I just listed a
few of kinda the bigger ticket items as potentials but we haven't put any cost to those renovations and we
haven't set any priorities to those renovations because I think we really do need to focus on the electrical and
mechanical changes before we do some of these other large ticket renovations to the various floors.
- And Dan, are you in interested in me showing the screen or you think that's fine?
- Yeah, I mean, if you have a report open up, otherwise I have that page 974 open on my screen where I could
share that if you want.
- Yeah, I have it open.
- Okay.
- I guess just as a point of followup, the dollars that are in the report from 2015 were reflective of pricing at
that time, and doesn't reflect the current bidding environment or current cost and availability of material.
Certainly things like roofing and other things have gone up substantially and just finding people to do the work,
let alone, being able to afford the work to have it done is a significant issue.
- Yeah, and in fact, these estimates that you see in front of you on this page, these were done last year, so it
doesn't really reflect current bidding processes. So it is a lot more expensive now when we're bidding out
work than it even was last year is what we're finding out.
- Correct.
- So the total cost, as you see there is $6.5 million for electrical, mechanical and roof replacements, and doing
all of those repairs and renovations in a five year window. Obviously those that number is gonna go up year to
year and we'd have to modify those numbers accordingly. But if you scroll down a little bit, Diana, I just wanna
point out some of those other renovations that have been discussed. And these are not an all-encompassing
list of renovations, these are kind of some of the bigger ticket items that have been discussed. So talked
already about the third floor renovations regarding public works needs. On the second floor, there's an
interest to install a dedicated women's restroom because the council chamber is there. Right now there's a
men's room, but there is not a women's room. So right now for the women's room, there's a single stall
unisex bathroom on the other side of the hallway and that is currently the women's room, which isn't
desirable for large City Council meetings. And then a couple other ones is there's a desire to potentially
consider moving some of the services on the first floor, up to the fourth floor. We have a large area of the
fourth floor that is vacant right now in office space, and so there's a desire to potentially move the assessor's
office, finance department and purchasing department into that vacant office space. Obviously we'd have to do
major renovation to the fourth floor to accommodate that, but then what that does, is it frees up a lot of
room on the first floor. And by doing that, you could possibly move Muni Court into the first floor and create
a large meeting room so that people don't have to go on the elevators to just come to a standard meeting. I
don't think the intent is to move City Council to the first floor, but it could be just for any sort of large public
meeting, could then meet on the first floor of City Hall instead of having to go to other parts of the building.
So those are some of the bigger ticket items, but there's a lot of small renovations that various departments
have asked for. And they're real needs, just things are old.
- Hey, Dan, you referenced those six floor renovations a few years back, do you any idea what those cost and
is that just a very rough guideline for what different floors, but maybe need, even if it's more cosmetic and not
so much operational.
- So when the renovation of the sixth floor was done, it was about a million dollars for the renovation. I don't
think that included the architectural work, I think that was the cost for the renovations, but that was three,
four or five years ago. And I'm sure that number has gone up drastically since then. The other thing I wanna
point out with the roof is we do have a lot of leaks in that roof. And I think the year that they did those
renovations to the sixth floor shortly thereafter, they had a lot of ceiling panels that had a lot of water stains
from leaks in the roof. So we have repaired many of those water leaks, but per the report in 2015, that roof, it
should have been replaced already, it's beyond its expected life expectancy. And so we do really have to make
that a high priority so that we don't cause structural damage to that roof structure.
- I guess I would just interject here, if I can. I think it emphasizes the importance of the order in which things
are done and the need to look comprehensively at this. Certainly the roof needs to be replaced, but if one of
the options for the mechanical systems is to put the mechanical systems on the roof, which comes first? And
what is that investment in that? And is one investment worth it? If that is a bigger chess movement in play, and
I mean, certainly the items then that you brought forth regarding the electrical systems and a potential
catastrophic failure are very real, the potential for that is high. And if it does, you have to design those systems,
you have to procure those systems and you have to get 'em installed, and that's not gonna be easy in terms of
timeline and the effect on City Hall, so certainly those are key items.
- Yeah, and in the first year, what we proposed in our CIP initially was to replace the electrical and then hire
an engineer to design the mechanical, and then we had the roof replacement the following year. And that way
we could design the mechanical, figure out how large of a penthouse structure we needed and actually take
that into account when we replace the roof, so we're not replacing the roof twice.
- And I would just add to that, Ian, something that when we were contemplating this during the bond request
last year, I'm a big believer in let's get all options on the table before we start narrowing down what the right
decision is. And so if there is a hypothetical situation where we say what a new facility is really, what's in the
best interest of the taxpayer, what would happen with the existing City Hall, and obviously that would likely
come with a different use. So when you start looking at this electrical upgrade, is that the same process, no
matter what the use is, or do things get altered a little bit, so just trying to kind of have that conversation as
well.
- Yeah, absolutely. I mean, certainly if that building was, I don't know, turned into apartments or a different use,
it would have a different electrical load and you may well do the HVAC in a different manner. So yeah, these
are large scale decisions that should be addressed and identified, so that the investment that is made is a valid
investment and will see some sort of return on it. If those systems haven't been replaced in 50 years, 60 years,
then replacing them now only for the building to be a different use five years from now and have to be
modified again, doesn't make any sense either.
- And on that point, if we were to authorize additional analysis and maybe heightened analysis of some of these
key buildings, is it possible to really get a good handle on the feasibility of conversion or the marketability if the
building is converted to a different use, is that something that's done commonly or a process that you're
familiar with and open to any members?
- From my perspective, I'd say it's a perfect candidate for an RFP out to the broader real estate development
community, here you go. Here's the building that we have it for the right proposal, $1 it's yours, and let that
other group largely do all the work that Ian was just referencing as maybe needed for that desired use.
- Yeah, I agree. I think part of the question becomes what is the timeline for a larger, broader picture and what
are the timelines for need? I think those are key decisions that, I mean, if it's five years from now, you know
what I mean? Design of a major municipal facility takes a lot of time and it's not something that wants to be
rushed, it needs to be well thought through. And just like City Hall, a building that lasted or has lasted to this
point 50, 60, 70 years. That's a good investment for the City of Green Bay for a building that has had very little
investment in it since the day it was done. And so there's longevity there, there's also an aspect of sustainability
within that, that it can be argued that I think that longevity is the best form of sustainability. So all of the
embodied energy, all of those pieces that go into the construction of a building of that magnitude should be
part of the picture as well.
- No, man, not to further complicate the discussion, but I think there needs to be an operational discussion as
well. And Dan, you talked about some potential modifications to City Hall and I like that we're thinking that
way, what could that potentially look like? And I think to broaden that scope a little bit, that if you are a user, a
resident of our community coming to City Hall, how do you create a good user experience in taking into
account what percentage of people come to City Hall for what purpose and how can you redesign that layout
in a way that creates a good customer experience? And how could that potentially look in the existing facility
versus a new one? So I think that operational piece is really important as well, once we look beyond just the
facility needs.
- No, I would certainly agree with that, in addition though, I would also note that the nature of the way that
work is done has changed pretty dramatically in the last two years as well. I mean, we're much more in-person
than an organization kinda doing similar work in the private sector probably is right now, but still we're able to
do a lot more remotely or are doing many more things remotely than we were pre-pandemic. So I think just in
terms of operational questions that probably factors into.
- Yeah, this meeting's a great example of it.
- I was just going to add something that might be of interest. I was born and raised in the City of Kaukauna,
and about maybe half a decade ago, they made the decision to raise several of their existing buildings in favor
of building new. I was just trying to do some web searching to see what that project cost. Obviously smaller
city, employees to try to house, but that project from my familiarity only really was a success because you
were able to do something before you moved staff, and then you had the time to address some of these very
difficult projects in existing buildings. So just might be something that would be worth looking at in terms of
what their total cost was, 'cause it included a new fire station as part of a second phase to that project.
- But I think that's the heart of why we're meeting here, 'cause looking Dan, the information you had, let's say
that number is really six and a half for urgent stuff and with current bidding and cost and all that, let's just say
that's maybe seven and a half now. If you were to take your roughly a million dollars per floor and even say
that's a million and a half for the same reasons, you're easily pushing north of 15 million to address and
modernized City Hall. And at roughly 13,000 square feet of floor, Paul chime in, if you got a better number,
but you apply any cost per square foot on that, you're starting to get pretty close where your mind can
conceive the benefits of building new.
- When you add that... Sorry, Paul, go ahead.
- I was just gonna say that you've gotta study this item six for the replacement of the police station. And I think
they valued that at about 35 million couple years ago when that study was completed. I mean, for the sake of
discussion, I would just say double the number if you're gonna combine the facility. So you're looking yet a
bonding request north of 75 million to do everything that's talked about. I think that's just off the cuff numbers
of what you're really looking at.
- Yeah, and I think the merits of that, if you know that you need to invest that money either way whether it's
in a unified building or otherwise, But then you look at City Hall and if you can bring that back onto the tax
roles, through a private development by unifying the building, that's kind of the other piece that I've been
thinking about.
- And then I'll add onto that, Brian, with the idea of Dan, what is your annual capital improvement project
looking out 10 years? Because that's easy to forget about, there's a lot of, of money that's gonna just continue
to have to be spent on a building. Not to say a brand new building has no ongoing operational cost, but it does
reset the clock for at least a decade or two. And then the other thing that was going into my mind, and again,
forgive me, I don't spend my days totally in public municipal government, but what other needs could the
existing site for the City Hall help with the City of Green Bay? Does it become a site for housing assistance or
some other public need that that location serves itself well for? As Garritt suggested, you might find out
through private development, what could be successful there as well.
- I think this has been a really good discussion, any other thoughts or questions on this one? Okay, I entertain a
motion to receive and place on file.
- So moved.
- Second.
- A motion has been made by Alder Johnson to receive and place on file. This item, the overview of the
current status of City Hall by our Parks Director, that was seconded by Mr. Bader, all in favor, signify by
saying, aye.
- [Panelists] Aye.
- Opposed nay? The ayes have it, onto item six, overview of Bray Architect’s presentations. Director,
Ellenbecker, were you able to provide any kind of an overview of what was done here or?
- No, it's included in the packet and I do not have any representatives who are on the former group. Happens
to be on page 978 of the packet, but back then there was a time the Steering Committee, that really Alder
Lamers Chief of Staff, Celestine Jeffreys was on it. We had a captain and a commander from the Police
Department, and we had a assistant fire chief on the team and also the judge from the Muni Court. And at that
point they really went through, at that point, they used Bray Architects and just really went out and really did a
spatial needs analysis, kind of if they could really have everything they wanted really kind of they went and
looked at it. So again, this was back in '16 and '17 and they just really started the process of what it is, if they
could have what they wanted, this is what they wanted, this is what they would need. And then they also went
as far as trying to maybe find some locations within the City of Green Bay. What really put this one at pause
was unfortunately, as they were moving forward, we weren't really at that point, we weren't at a point where
we could start, we hadn't been planning to start building a public safety building so it really kind of got put on
hold. We really didn't have the money to buy the lot at the time that they had recommended, and so it really
kinda got put on hold. And so again, of course it was a funding thing that really slowed this one down, really
hadn't been moving forward without thinking about the funding to go with. So I don't have much more to say
on this, other than, like I said, there were two different presentations that went into the Finance Committee.
And so I just attached the two documents, so you can kinda see what they were thinking at that point. There
was a thought of maybe pleas, possibly fire administration, and then that was in, kind of out and then maybe
whether or not Muni Court could be in and out. And so it was really something they were thinking about at, in
'16 and '17.
- Right, well, thanks for that overview. And just to reiterate some of what Director Ellenbecker has said, and
to reinforce what Alder Johnson said earlier, there's a lot of good work that was done by this group, but the
key gap was that financing piece. And so I think it was maybe the first CIP that I was involved in, had to go to
Finance Committee and say, hey, I'm not real comfortable just slotting this in given the fact that we don't have
a good way to necessarily pay for this. And given what Mr. Martzke just said with the ballpark estimate of
we're looking at 75 million plus, I think that really has to be a key point of the discussion of this committee is
working with others or some other outfit with our finance team to identify a really solid financial path to
incorporate these upgrades or renovations or complete reimagining’s of how we do things with city
government, because as it stands, I think everybody understands, municipal finance is a difficult concern these
days. And when you're trying to factor in all of these additional costs, that's a real challenge for us. And then
another thing, just to note of that prior discussion, the terminology has been public safety building, going back
four or five years, whenever this discussion got going. I think it makes sense to reevaluate whether or not, we
actually would benefit from combined police and fire in one facility. There's been recent discussion with Chief
Litton and others within fire indicates that it might actually make more sense to include fire administration
adjacent to a new firehouse, which is certainly needed on the near west side of town. I think that's fire station
three, that's a beautiful old historic structure, but not that well designed for modern firefighting necessarily.
And then kind of connected to that, I would love to have a better understanding of how marketable that fire
station would be for private development in addition to Fire Station 1, which currently houses just the fire
administration. So just some thoughts on that prior work. Any additional?
- It would seem that there are some very complex financial analysis on the trade-offs between decisions that
need to be done. I'm wondering, has anything like that been done to date? So as we think about build versus
renovate, and then the ongoing expenses associated with each one of those, do we have any idea what that
looks like?
- Director Ellenbecker.
- No, to date that has not been done.
- Okay.
- I think Jesse brings up a good point because if the idea is to possibly combine or bring together certain
elements whatever those are, could that number that Paul talked about before, be different? If you're already
combining something in, and it's a marginal, extra cost, a certain combination, but maybe not the rack rate that
you would have with standalone facilities.
- Yeah, certainly there's an efficiency when you're bringing in one service to a building to affect multiple
essentially tenants within that. So, yeah, I think there's an operational efficiency as well. I mean, and I think the
other piece that should be looked at is what are the utility costs for some of these buildings? I mean, maybe
City Halls, utility costs are not as high because it's not delivering the amount of air to each of the spaces that it
needs to, or it may be the fact that there is no insulation in the outside wall, that it is an uncomfortable
building to be in because all heat is escaping out the windows or at the wall. So I think, there's a whole other
included in the study that was done by our office in 2015. That was purely the parts and pieces, and it doesn't
address the operational piece of that. And I think that is a huge factor, vision, as this comes together, that can't
be just left to one side that needs to be part of the analysis.
- Diana, I'm curious 'cause the Mayor brought it up, referring some of this to Ellis for analysis as well. I mean, if
this group were to move forward and able to get some numbers around here's the cost to construct, here's
the cost to renovate, you kinda create multiple scenarios. Does Ellis do that type of analysis where they can
say, here are the different public financing mechanisms you have and here's the outcome that makes the most
sense. For example, if you put some of these properties back on the tax roll, that's new increment, you could
create a TID and borrow against that, some of it could be levy supported. There's some value left to
opportunity zones, although that may not be there by the time you can put a shovel in the ground around
unless Congress acts. But my point is that there are options there, right? You could have a private developer
build something and lease where we have an option to purchase. I'm just kinda curious if that's the type of
analysis that Ellis can do for us?
- Yes, it has. Yes, I believe, we would certainly get a scope of services if we were gonna go out to contract
with them. However, at a very, very high level for the last two years, I have been telling them as we work
through debt and levy limits that we have this public safety building or municipal building, whatever we wanna
call it, it's on the horizon, it needs something that we need to consider. And so that is certainly something that
they can do, they would look at, they've made recommendations they know 'cause as they look at our debt
structure, they also look at when are kids gonna close or what other kind of new funding sources you have
and they would be able to structure something out. Again, I mean that would be we have to have more tax
increment coming in so that we could pay for the larger debt service. I mean that would be the preferred way
to pay for a large building as this. So I would at this point, yes, and I believe that is a service they've already
offered up, but I certainly can reach out to them after this meeting and again, give them if they could just even
gimme like not a quota, maybe some kind of some background on what kind of services they do offer, I
certainly can get that. But at this point I do believe that that's something that they would be very interested in
since they already work with our current debt, they already know our current budgeting, our current
equalized value, levy limits. I think they certainly would be able to help us out for this process.
- Thank you.
- And I would be particularly interested in the difference between the capital investment that would be needed
versus the ongoing operational expenses of those older buildings. And to Alderman Johnson's point, the
potential offsets that could be out there when you transition from one building to another.
- Any other discussion on this item? Alder Johnson?
- No, I was just gonna move to receive and place in file if there's no other questions.
- Motion to receive and place on file made by Alder Johnson.
- Second.
- Seconded by Mr. Bader, all in favor will signify by saying aye.
- [Panelists] Aye. have it. And now we're down to item seven, consideration with possible action for the use of
the remaining 2018 bonded money for public safety building in $34,361.60. So wanted to put this on the
agenda as our only potential action item, principally so that the Ad-Hoc Facilities Committee was aware of
these resources that have kind of been left over from that 2018 analysis of a public safety building. I don't
know that this would cover the entirety of an updated analysis of what we were thinking earlier. And as I said
previously, I think there is the potential to supplement this with American Rescue Plan Act knowledge, if that's
the intent of this committee and the intent of council. This is a clear organizational need and we do have a
significant pot of money that's dedicated for those kinds of investigations and purposes. So interested in just
having a discussion about how we could put these resources to use and or potentially supplementing it with
additional dollars.
- So my gut tells me that there really wouldn't be an action we take today, as you alluded to mayor and maybe
a hold is appropriate, just so that we know and understand that funding is there. I think the first step would be
building out some type of scope of an RFP in terms of what we really wanna see.
- Right, I think, one potential action would be to refer this item to staff and directing them to bring back some
elements of a financial strategy as we were just discussing as well as an analysis that speaks to some of those
operational needs, as well as significant capital costs that we're talking about.
- So I could certainly support a referral. I'm just trying to think obviously if the intent is to come back to the
next meeting with staff's recommendation and then the committee here could kinda weigh in on that
recommendation, provide additional input.
- That's what I was thinking, yes.
- Okay, okay.
- Any other comments from committee members on that question or potential action?
- Yeah, what was going through my mind is, again, from an outsider's perspective, the fact that today's packet is
almost a thousand pages long shows that we do, when I say we, the city has commission studies to understand
the scope and the extent of the project. But I think I agree with Alderman Johnson's concept of let's lay out a
roadmap so that we don't continue to just spin our wheels and we end up just knowing what's wrong with our
buildings and maybe not having a way to put it into any meaningful action. And that please understand that
comment is not intended to be negative towards any one person, but there is a little bit of, it seems to me like
the problem gets to be so large and there's just such a complex solution, it stagnates. So I would support
asking staff, okay, what are our bonding options or what are our options for what we could maybe afford and
some unique thoughts on structure. But then I would also go down the path of, and maybe what are the pieces
of the strategy that need to get put out. And maybe it's a couple of RFPs, one on the financial side and the
other one that could be on kind of a master planning side.
- I propose maybe a real overly simple goal for next time, which is if, back to my earlier comments of trying to
understand what does this committee want to achieve, and what's our focus be? It seems like the focus should
really be City Hall, police facility, fire facility, and whether those are all combined or separate or partly
combined or whatever. I would love to know that A, that's what we think we should be focusing our time on.
And then B, for next time, the respect of overseers of those efforts in the past to at least give us a brief
executive summary, if you will, of here's what we've done so far, here's what would need to be re-reviewed or
restudied. And then we can analyze that next time and say here's our three buckets, here's where we need to
go from where we've been. I think long before we even talk about what our different financing vehicles, that's
obviously important, but I like to first know where we're really starting from. And I would take the value, the
opinion of those folks very seriously.
- Yeah, I think that a good point, although, especially with regard to the police station, not a whole heck of a
lot has been done. So there's not that much information to share on that front, fire administration would be a
similar answer, the municipal court sort of status quo. We've heard from our Parks Director on City Hall, so
that's my only point on that front.
- Do we know from place and fire, if the needs have marketably changed or the physical conditions have
notably noted, what am I trying to say? And really deteriorated most of my speech here since the most recent
reports were done?
- I would just say generally the police station is in rough shape, in need of some significant upgrades. Chief
Davis can certainly . Definitely need some new carpet on the second floor, that was my most recent
observation, but Chief Davis feel free.
- Yeah, I mean, obviously it hasn't gotten any better. I haven't seen this report, so I don't know how to
compare what we have now, but I would just say there's a couple issues where that have probably gotten
worse. One is structural, the roof, for example, we've gotta spend almost $200,000 now repairing the roof.
And it all has to be replaced because there are 80 to a hundred spots, so it's actually cheaper to replace it than
it would be to patch all those. But the other thing for our facility that we've noticed that I think has changed
probably since this report, because just in the last few years, we've started in the profession to rethink what
we use our facilities for. This facility definitely represents like a 1960s way of thinking about police facilities.
There's no community space in it, no connection to other things. I think there is a trend and a good one, in my
opinion of co-locating police facilities with things like parks or affordable housing developments or things like
that to integrate 'em into the community better rather than making them this kind of standoffish thing that's on
its own. Hopefully that's helpful to the discussion.
- Yep.
- Curious if others have additional thoughts, obviously I think the easiest motion here is to refer to staff and
then we can bring back maybe a few different options for the committee to mull over.
- Are you looking for a motion for something right now?
- Yeah, if someone's interested in offering one, yeah.
- I guess a motion got set a moment ago to have this committee's focus centered on those primary facilities,
City Hall, police, fire, and have an executive summary or brief report, whatever, back by next time we meet
that says, here are the existing reports, were they reviewed and what is the next steps from those reports.
- Eric can I suggest you amend your motion to include the Municipal Court as well?
- Absolutely, so amended.
- And like I said, that certainly makes sense to me. You could sort of say, that's what we did here, that's my
only concern is it doesn't seem to me that this is really moving the ball too much forward. I mean, we can
work within that and maybe offer a few proactive items related to that scope, but that's my only comment.
- Well, and maybe to what Dan talked about earlier, City Hall, maybe there's not much need that regard other
than some updating a cost for certain things that Ian had talked about earlier in the meeting. Fire to your
comments before Mayor, maybe there's not a lot needed there, but with police, what the chief just said, maybe
that's is that the one item that takes maybe a little more immediate refreshing or another look to see exactly
what is desired compared to the Bray analysis?
- Yeah, I don't think it would take that much to look at those buildings and identify what's been done, what
hasn't been done and put some increased costs to those. I think that would at least give us a starting point
that, okay, this is reflective of today, and not reflective of 2015, and from there we can make decisions. I think
the financial analysis piece is a big part of this, this is great discussion, but if there's no way to finance this, then
that's gonna be a challenge.
- And beyond just financing it, you might be able to finance it, but maybe you shouldn't finance it. Maybe you
should never ever, just because you can finance, it doesn't mean you should.
- Sure, absolutely.
- But yeah, I think that there's been a lot of really good points about why you may want to do one option or
the other, but I think to fully understand the decision, you need to understand what are the cost trade-offs of
one decision versus the other. And it doesn't have to be perfect, but we gotta get in the ballpark.
- Absolutely. Other thoughts on that motion. Okay, Mr. Bader made that, do you wanna restate that, Mr.
Bader, just so we have it?
- Sure, to focus this committee's scope on the primary billings of City Hall, police, fire, and municipal court,
and to receive back a brief summary of where the most recent reports was needed next, whether refinements
to some of those numbers are needed, so we know our base scope of each building for the next meeting.
- Okay, and are you that's broad enough to encompass a potential financial analysis or some of those questions
that Alder Johnson and Director Ellenbecker and others had gotten into?
- Well, my gut says no only because if the idea of possible combining could happen, we were saying, and you
have cost savings from combining different facilities, can we even know what you can combine if you don't
know, in a case of specifically fire, the Chief's comments just a moment ago, how that looks like. So if you
would need say roughly 80,000 square feet of new City Hall using current square footages, is the cost per
square foot to build that more 250 versus 350, if you're gonna combine with something, I don't know what
you can estimate that right now until we have a better idea on what the individual needs for those uses are,
and then what could be combined.
- Well, you do know your cost right now and an estimate of what those repairs would be in the future. You
can put estimates just like you just did right now, 250 to 350 on understanding what the expense would be for
the alternative.
- I guess I would suggest that maybe that'd be a separate motion, then, the financing part of things, if the
physical needs is one part, is then the financial capacity possibilities a second, maybe that would include current
utilities that came up before current utility usage, current operating expenses data.
- Yeah, I mean, this kind of a legalistic question. We've got one item here that has consideration with possible
action. So I think we'd probably need to kind of encompass what we're trying to do with one motion related
to this item.
- So the motion is also for staff to present the utility operation financing estimates that think both Jesse and Ian
and some respect Paul had referenced, I'm fine with that . I feel like the motion is growing here, but somebody
held pair down what they would like-
- Yeah, I think from a parliamentary perspective, I think the Mayor's right. You have one agenda item, so you
have one opportunity really to have one motion that captures everything. And so what I would recommend is
a motion that refers this to staff and then bullet point, each item that you want staff to work on.
- Can I ask a question of item seven, or is that item stating that there's 34,000 in remaining funds to be used
from the 2018?
- Correct.
- So that's not a lot of money, but it might be enough to get the respective consultants to go back and do a
quick review of the documents they've already given us and provide us that update. You have Bray that did the
police study, it might be as simple as saying you did this in 2018, what do you feel the dollar amounts are in
2022 or '23. If we narrow down the scope to the four buildings that Garritt mentioned in his proposed
motion, that might be enough money to ask Berners Schober to simply go back and review those four
buildings and update that portion of the facility study, so you bring that up to date, and then you'd have the
groundwork of understanding that the four existing facilities need X amount of items and the recommendation
for a new police facility is X amount of dollars.
- Yeah, I like the sound of that.
- I concur.
- Well, now, whether or not you could get those respective consultants to update their stuff with that amount
of money, I guess that would be the first step. And I don't know if the city's procurement process requires
them to go out for an RFP or because you've already engaged those still technically be under contract,
whatever, not sure how you facilitate that discussion, but.
- Yeah, that's a good question. I don't know, Director Ellenbecker, if you have any thoughts on that at all, or
the motion that proposed.
- Just to answer your last point, I believe because we've already had them as we've already contracted, and this
would be an update and be as architectural service. I don't believe we'd have to go for RFP, of course, I'll check
with my procurement manager, but I think that that would be. And again, also to talk to Paul's point, yeah,
again, 34,000 is not a lot of money legally available, that was really set aside by the council at one point to look
at a public safety building analysis at that point. So again, it's not a lot, but it's money that's here, it's ready, it
can be spent, it gives you a little bit of as a team to help move forward something. And then if we need more
funding, as the Mayor said, maybe we go on tap our ARPA funds, but that certainly sounds like something that
we would be able to go forward and reach back out to Berners Schober to update those, at least those four
buildings.
- Well, Director Ellenbecker, correct me if I'm wrong, but we could just forward that as a sole source request,
right? And because if, I mean, quite frankly, if you were to take BSA's report here and give it to any other,
they're gonna want to verify, validate they're redoing the whole study at that point anyway.
- Yep.
- Correct.
- Okay. The other question I guess I would have is, well, a point I would make is I would think you'd wanna
hold back on ARPA funds until we have a sense of better direction, simply because if the way that we're
headed is to an eventual RFP that discusses a potential replacement of these facilities, that's a bigger
undertaking with obviously some additional consultant dollars needed. And then the last thing I guess I would
ask is simply, is it a easy task to somehow create a projection or provide this committee with the information
on what the city's bonding capacity could look like for a major capital project? If we say that this is a $50
million project or a hundred dollar project or whatever those numbers are, can that be very quickly calculated
so that we even know that there is capacity in the future to do this, because I think that would then help us
frame the , if we only know that we have 50 million to work with, then potentially the project has to be
looked at in a different way, whether it's a private sector partnership or some other financing, or maybe it's
just scaled back.
- Well, that's a good question. I mean, one of the short answers is from a statutory perspective, we almost
certainly have capacity to borrow, the kind of sums that we've talked about, whether or not that's a wise
financial decision is really what we need to get into, but Director Ellenbecker, if you have any additional
thoughts.
- No, and again, I think I would prefer to defer that over to Ellis and again, yes, look at our depth capacity, look
at the long term, how many years could you bond this for? I mean, 'cause the useful life of building obviously
should be, we might be able to bond this out for 40 years. So they would be able to help stagger that all out
and give us better answers.
- Yeah, I'd concur with that. I think as not been in the finance piece of it and knowing what the capacities of the
city are, any narrowing down of that would be helpful for me just to have a sense of magnitude and perspective
on it, that would be very useful to frame these discussions going forward and how we might approach 'em.
- Great, so I think what I heard from Mr. Martzke was a motion to dedicate that remaining balance of
$34,361.60 to an update of the overviews that were presented today, is that correct?
- Specific to the four buildings that we mentioned previously, City Hall police...
- So technically, do you want me to withdraw my motion and let Paul's motion stand on the floor?
- Yeah, I don't think there was a second for your motion Garritt, so if you felt comfortable with Paul's motion,
you could second it.
- Sure, I'll second Paul's motion.
- Additional discussion on that?
- I continue to agree with Ms. Ellenbecker's comment though about getting some analysis done on the
operations side and I'm comfortable with it not, necessarily being at this juncture, but I think that's a very wise
thought because where my mind goes to, is if we know the capacity is there after some initial financial analytics
are done, it starts to drive conversations about significant operation savings that you just can't even think
about right now. A reception area that can direct you to three different locations in a building that currently
you'd need three separate reception folks in three separate locations, snow removal services, it goes on and
on. Obviously there's some additional impacts that happen when you consolidate locations together. But I
think we may be surprised when we start to think about just the redundancy that we have to operate again, of
no fault of anybody, it's just the reality of having disconnected services.
- Right, I think that's well said. Other comments on the motion? Seeing none all in favor will signify by saying
aye.
- [Panelists] Aye.
- Opposed nay? And I'm sorry, Mr. Griffiths. Just thought it might be appropriate to make that . Fantastic, so
the ayes have it, that motion is successful and then we've got, determining our next meeting date, roughly
speaking, is this a decent time for people?
- How often is it anticipated that we need to, or want to meet?
- I mean, I would imagine we're gonna try to get back together as soon as possible, when these updates are
ready. I think we're probably looking at a little bit of a time out here for a month or two or maybe more
before that could be prepared, but I would defer to the experts on the call too, if they have an understanding
of how quickly we could get back.
- I guess I can chime in on the architectural engineering side of things. I think if we had the opportunity to sit
down with the public works and parks department to go through what has, and hasn't been done in some of
these buildings, as well as the police and fire, then I think we could pretty quickly update those numbers and
identify things that have changed in that document. I don't think it would take that much time and I think it can
be done pretty economically.
- Okay, so not a super concrete answer for you, Mr. Bader, but I don't anticipate it being an every couple
week kind of affair, especially right now, as we're gathering information.
- I think if we had a month now, you'd have more sufficient time to get our portion of the work done if that's
the way it goes. And I, again, I don't own the finance piece of what that timeline might look like, but on the
architectural engineering side, I would feel very comfortable within a month that we could get that update
information out.
- Okay, and that's certainly what we could target from a scheduling point of view. We don't necessarily have to
designate a particular time right now. I can ask Terry from my office to help coordinate our next meeting time.
Just wanted to get a sense for whether or not, Monday mid morning is good, or if somebody really had .
- So long as it's around the 10 o'clock time, that's good, otherwise I have all of our weekly scheduling for staff
and kind of our corporate meetings, first thing on a Monday. So if the first two hours can be kept open, that'd
be great, and 10 o'clock onwards, I'm good.
- Okay.
- I would, second that meeting time is being pretty favorable.
- Moving back in half an hour. Go ahead.
- Thank you, same with me though. It may be better on not a Monday just from getting the week going, but I
can be flexible as well, if this is a good time for everyone else to meet.
- I was just gonna say 10:30 is a little bit better for me, but I can do 10.
- Okay. All right, so I think we got a sense for what works for the committee. I'd entertain a motion to receive
and place on file.
- So moved.
- Second.
- Motion to receive and place on file and item eight was made by Alder Johnson and seconded by Mr. Bader.
All in favor, signify by saying, aye.
- Aye.
- Opposed nay? The ayes have it and now we need a Chair. Any volunteers?
- Those crickets are back.
- And I mean, it goes without saying that I'd be have happy to serve as Chair, if that's what you all are most
comfortable with. Alder Johnson, obviously, is familiar with parliamentary procedure, could definitely do the
job for us as well. So whatever that is, is fine.
- I'm gonna respectfully take myself out of the running, I got this little public market project that I'm through
the goodness of being a board member, helping to guide and that's a limited bandwidth to do my formal life, so
I will not be part of that.
- I guess I would be in same position where I'd rather focus time and energy and effort onto some of the
thinking about it, as opposed to the running of it.
- I mean, if nobody else wants to do it, I mean, I would volunteer if it's just handling the parliamentary piece
and engaging with staff a little bit, but if someone else from the committee preferred to take on that role, I
would certainly defer as well. Turns out I'm not chairing any other committees at the moment, so it kinda...
- Sounds like Alder Johnson's looking for a nomination.
- I so nominate.
- Second.
- Mr. Griffiths nominates Alder Johnson to serve as Chair of our Ad-Hoc Facilities Committee, that was
seconded by Mr. Bader. All in favor will signify by saying aye.
- [Panelists] Aye.
- Opposed nay? The ayes have it and then a successful Vice Chair. Really don't have to do anything if Brian
skips town on us.
- I can take on the role of Vice Chair.
- All right, there we go.
- I nominate Paul.
- Alder Johnson nominates Mr. Martzke, seconded by Mr. Griffiths. Any discussion? All in favor, signify by
saying aye.
- [Panelists] Aye.
- Opposed nay?
- The ayes have it. Adjournment, motion to adjourn? Motion to adjourn made by Alder Johnson, seconded by
Mr. Griffiths all in favor, signify by saying aye.
- [Panelists] Aye.
- Opposed nay. The ayes have it, we're adjourned, thanks everybody sincerely for the discussion today, I think
it was really valuable. Thank you.
Report to the
Ad Hoc Facilities Committee
of the City of Green Bay
MEETING DATE
November 15, 2022
AGENDA ITEM # D.1
Consideration with possible action the review of the Facilities Assessment Updates for City Hall, Municipal
Court, Police Station, and Fire Station #1.
BACKGROUND
RECOMMENDATION
FISCAL IMPACT
ATTACHMENTS
1. CityHall_Updated 11.7.2022
2. FireStation1
3. MunicipalCourt
4. PoliceStation
100 North Jefferson Street, Green Bay, Wisconsin 54301-5026
greenbaywi.gov
City of Green Bay
Green Bay, WI
City Hall
Comm. No. 22CGB12.00
September 30, 2022
310 Pine St. Green Bay, WI 54301 | P:920-432-4865 | www.bernersschober.com
City of Green Bay
City Hall
Facility Assessment
City of Green Bay | Green Bay, WI
Comm. No. 22CGB12.00
table of contents
summary ................................................................................................................................................................................................... 1
summary chart........................................................................................................................................................................................ 2
architectural exterior ........................................................................................................................................................................... 4
Building description ............................................................................................................................................................... 4
Building envelope ................................................................................................................................................................... 4
Chart .......................................................................................................................................................................................... 4
Photos ........................................................................................................................................................................................ 5
architectural interior ............................................................................................................................................................................ 7
Building description ............................................................................................................................................................... 7
Interior conditions .................................................................................................................................................................. 7
Chart .......................................................................................................................................................................................... 9
Photos ........................................................................................................................................................................................ 10
code compliance and accessibility ................................................................................................................................................. 16
Building data ............................................................................................................................................................................. 16
Summary of code compliance/life safety.......................................................................................................................... 16
Summary of accessibility/ADA compliance...................................................................................................................... 16
Chart ............................................................................................................................................................................................ 18
Photos ......................................................................................................................................................................................... 19
structural ................................................................................................................................................................................................. 21
Summary ................................................................................................................................................................................... 21
Chart .......................................................................................................................................................................................... 21
Photos ........................................................................................................................................................................................ 22
plumbing ................................................................................................................................................................................................... 23
Summary .................................................................................................................................................................................... 23
Chart ............................................................................................................................................................................................ 23
Photos ......................................................................................................................................................................................... 25
fire protection ......................................................................................................................................................................................... 33
Summary .................................................................................................................................................................................... 33
Chart ............................................................................................................................................................................................ 33
Photos ......................................................................................................................................................................................... 34
mechanical ............................................................................................................................................................................................... 37
HVAC systems ......................................................................................................................................................................... 37
Summary .................................................................................................................................................................................... 37
Chart ............................................................................................................................................................................................ 38
Photos ......................................................................................................................................................................................... 44
electrical.................................................................................................................................................................................................... 50
Summary .................................................................................................................................................................................... 50
Chart............................................................................................................................................................................................ 51
photos ......................................................................................................................................................................................... 52
City Hall
Parks Department
Summary
report description
An assessment of City Hall was conducted in 2015 by Berners Schober which reviewed the condition of the
building’s architectural, structural, mechanical, plumbing and electrical elements. This report, done in the summer
of 2022, is an update to the previous assessment. Each building was re-surveyed by trade and the reports
updated. Below are brief summaries of the changes to the building in the intervening 7 years.
architectural
Exterior building elements have not changed significantly since the previous assessment. The roof of the building
and penthouse are in need of replacement. Single pane windows are recommended for replacement.
Interior finishes were reviewed with an emphasis on those which were damaged or in poor condition. The elevators
have been replaced since the previous assessment. The 6th Floor was renovated during the past 7 years, including
the staff break room which provided accessible sink and counter areas.
code/accessibility
The Wisconsin building code has been updated since the last assessment to referencing the 2015 International
Building Code (IBC). The 2015 IBC references the 2009 ICC A117.1 Accessible and Usable Buildings and Facilities
code. The 2010 ADA Standards remain in effect since the previous assessment. Major building elements, such as
the stair and elevator shafts, are unchanged. Notes from the 2009 assessment related to fire ratings still apply but
were not reiterated.
Since the 2015 assessment, some of the accessible elements have been corrected. A chart is included in this
report section that documents compliant and non-compliant elements of the accessible toilet rooms. Drinking
fountains with water bottle fillers have been installed on all floors except the basement.
structure
Structural elements have exhibited little change since the previous assessment.
plumbing
Water heater was replaced with a new electric unit. Previous unit was gas-fired.
fire protection
There has been no change to the fire protection system since the last assessment, with the exception of alterations
to address remodeled areas.
mechanical
No major changes/updates to the mechanical systems have been made since the last evaluation. Duct systems
were modified to serve the renovated space. The boiler tubes have been refurbished, which will extend the life
expectancy of the steam boilers.
electrical
No major changes/updates to the electrical systems have been made since the last evaluation. Some additional
interior lighting has been upgraded to LED.
2022 Page 1
City Hall
Summary of Priority Items
ITEM DEFICIENT (d) CRITICAL HIGH PRIORITY (hp) COST ESTIMATE
Immediate PRIORITY (cp) Replace in 3-5 years
Replacement Replace in 1-2
years
City Hall
architectural-ext Roof replacement $750,000
architectural-ext Tuck Pointing $5,000
Exterior window
architectural-ext
replacement $563,200
Floors-Composite
architectural-int
tile at basement TBD
Exterior metal door
architectural-int and frame (long &
short term) $200 – $6,000
code Accessible route $400 – $1,000
Storm/clearwater
plumbing
system $40,000
plumbing Valves $5,000
plumbing Insulation $20,000
plumbing Eyewash(es) $5,000
Therm. mixing valve
plumbing
(TMV) $7,500
Backflow
plumbing
prevention $500
plumbing Elevator sump pit $500
Fire pump
fire protection
Fire pump controller $55,000
Jockey pump
fire protection Jockey pump
controller $10,000
fire protection Standpipe system $65,000
HVAC - AHU-1 Housing $520,000
HVAC Air intake $incl
HVAC Coils $incl
HVAC Insulation $incl
Mechanical room duct
HVAC
work $incl
Distribution duct
HVAC
work $1,252,000
HVAC Induction terminals $3,380,000
HVAC - AHU-2 Housing $210,000
HVAC Coils $incl
HVAC Ductwork $incl
HVAC Insulation $incl
HVAC - 3 Housing $210,000
HVAC Coils $incl
2022 Page 2
bernersschober.com 920.432.4865
310 Pine Street | Green Bay, WI 54301
HVAC Duct work $incl
HVAC Insulation $incl
HVAC - 4 Housing $210,000
HVAC Air intake $ incl
HVAC Coils $ incl
HVAC Fan $ incl
HVAC controls $ incl
HVAC Ductwork $ incl
HVAC Insulation $ incl
HVAC - 5 Housing $ 30,000
HVAC Coils $ incl
HVAC Filter $ incl
HVAC Exhaust fans $40,000
HVAC Exhaust Ductwork $50,000
HVAC Boilers $350,000
HVAC Pipe insulation $26,000
HVAC Room terminal units $65,000
HVAC Mechanical room $11,000
HVAC Boiler room $13,000
HVAC DDC control $50,000
Branch panel, mixed
electrical
loads $18,000
Update/replace fire
electrical
alarm devices $500,000
Seal fire alarm
electrical
penetrations $5,000
City Hall Total $8,467,700 – $8,474,700
2022 Page 3
City Hall
Parks Department
Architectural-Exterior
architecture
building description
The existing city hall building was constructed in 1956. The six-story structure has an exterior consisting of granite
panels and face brick masonry with a precast concrete wall cap. There is mechanical penthouse on the roof that is
also constructed of face brick and has a pre-cast concrete cap. This building holds several City of Green Bay
Department offices as well as the City Council Chambers.
building envelope
roof
The existing roof is a rubber membrane covered with a pea sized ballast system. It was recommended in our
previous study in 2015 that the roof needed replacement in its entirety. This replacement work would also the
removal all of the copper flashings on the current roof. The roof of the existing mechanical penthouse should be
replaced along with all damaged pre-cast concrete copings as these two roofs are the same age and condition.
The existing roof is 11,170 sf with 500’ of flashing and trim. The Mechanical Penthouse roof is
2,430 sf and has 250’ of flashing that would be replaced.
exterior walls
The exterior of the building is clad on the first floor with granite panels. These panels are in very good condition for
a building of this age. The upper five stories are clad with a cream-colored face brick. From observance at the
ground level most of the brick appears to be in good condition. The building could be power washed to clean the
streaking from window ledges above. There are more than likely a few areas in which tuck pointing might be
required but were not visible from the ground.
The window wells to the east have some rust staining below the grating and could be part of a maintenance
cleaning program to maintain the exterior condition of the building. There is a hollow metal door and frame at the
bottom of the stair leading to the window well area that is very rusted and should be considered for replacement.
exterior windows and doors
The exterior doors are wide style aluminum doors with single pane glass and are in good condition. The operation,
pulls, power assist system and closers are all in good working order.
The exterior windows are aluminum framed casement windows with single pane uninsulated glass panels. The
interior of these windows has a secondary sliding, single-pane glass panel. These windows are not thermally
broken, and the glass provides little or no insulation value to the building. In addition, there are numerous locations
on the upper floors that are show signs of water damage at the jambs, which will get worse over time. It is highly
recommended that all the windows should be replaced with a thermally broken frame with insulated low-E glass.
legend
Deficient – Critical Priority – High Priority – Fair –
Compliant/
D Immediate CP Replace HP Replace F Replace C Adequate N New N/A Not Applicable
Replacement in 1-2 years in 3-5 years in 6-10 years
architectural elements grade budget cost notes comments
exterior elements
Roof condition HP $ 750,000 A1 Complete replacement
Exterior facade condition HP $ 5,000 A2 Tuck pointing masonry
Exterior window replacement HP $ 563,200 A3 Replace exterior windows
2022 Page 4
City Hall
Parks Department
Architectural-Exterior
notes:
A1. Remove and replace both mechanical penthouse roof and 6th floor roof including replacement of copper
flashing with stainless steel and all damaged pre-cast concrete wall caps.
A2. Tuck point existing main building and mechanical penthouse.
A3. Replace all 256 windows (various sizes) at the exterior, patch interior jambs and repaint all window
jambs.
Existing roof Existing roof
Mechanical penthouse - tuck pointing Mechanical penthouse - tuck pointing
2022 Page 5
City Hall
Parks Department
Architectural-Exterior
Penthouse pre-cast coping replacement Replace exterior windows
Rust on window well walls Rusted door to window well
Rust on window well walls
2022 Page 6
City Hall
Parks Department
Architectural-Interior
architecture
building description
City Hall is a brick and granite clad structure dating from 1956.
interior conditions
The following are updated condition notes from the previous assessment conducted in 2015.
basement
Floors
• 9” composite tile in print shop area has cracked and missing tile at multiple locations throughout the space.
Staff reports that a previous asbestos survey found asbestos in the adhesive for the tiles, but not the tiles
themselves. Areas of missing or damaged tile should be addressed in order to prevent old adhesive from
becoming airborne.
Walls
• Chipped paint at lower portion of corridor walls and handrails in mechanical room.
Doors and frames
• Paint at frames is worn and chipped in multiple locations.
• Metal door from boiler room to exterior is rusted at sill. Weatherstripping is missing at door. Daylight visible
at door perimeter.
first floor
Floors
• Carpet at high traffic areas (legal suite, reception areas) is showing wear.
Walls
• Sealant at perimeter of wall-hung lavatory in single-user toilet room is smeared on wall/not consistent.
• Former wall locations and other patches in walls of open office are visible due to different wall texture
and/or paint sheen.
Ceilings
• Minor chip in ceiling panel at office with brown wall.
second floor
Walls
• Paint has chipped at gypsum board outside corners.
third floor
Floors
• Multiple chips in vinyl tiles, specifically at room with printer and interior corridor.
Walls
• Paint has chipped at gypsum board outside corners.
• Bent louver blades at wall under window.
Doors
• Scratches in finish of wood door at storage rooms.
Ceilings
• Inconsistent gaps in perforated spline ceiling tiles.
• Uneven gaps between perimeter trim and spline ceiling tiles, likely due to cupping of the ceiling tiles.
2022 Page 7
City Hall
Parks Department
Architectural-Interior
fourth floor
Floors
• Athletic flooring is shifting, causing gaps between floor tiles.
• Older athletic flooring with interlocking edges has de-laminating surface at several tiles.
• Bubbled carpet at NE office. Long-term condition. Carpet is worn at traffic areas.
Walls
• Chipped paint at metal door frames.
• Missing cover at light switch.
Doors and windows
• Chipped paint at metal door frames.
• Window jambs behind interior clear panel are deteriorated or broken at some windows. Possibly due to
moisture build-up between panel and exterior single-pane windows. Typically occurs on south and west-
facing windows.
Ceilings
• Missing light fixture at internal corridor of unused space.
• Loose spline ceiling tiles at several areas of unused space.
• Water-stained ceiling panel at room outside of IT space. Adjacent window head has either unmatched paint
or patched area.
fifth floor
Walls
• Square gap in wall at intersection of marble panels, plaster wall, and rubber base (Human Resources lobby
area)
Doors
• Scratched wood finish at door wood frame (Human Resources area).
Casework
• Gap in plastic laminate countertop.
• Crack and de-laminated area of plastic laminate countertop at wall corner intersection.
sixth floor
Walls
• Paint has started to peel from surface of glazed ceramic block in single-user toilet room.
penthouse
Walls
• Brick on interior southwest wall is effervescing. This appears to be due to a deteriorated roof edge
condition on the exterior portion of the penthouse at this location.
• Efflorescence under windowsill at east wall.
2022 Page 8
City Hall
Parks Department
Architectural-Interior
legend
Deficient – Critical Priority – High Priority – Fair –
Compliant/
D Immediate CP Replace HP Replace F Replace C Adequate N New N/A Not Applicable
Replacement in 1-2 years in 3-5 years in 6-10 years
architectural elements grade budget cost notes comments
floors
Cost determined by
Composite tile at basement HP $$ A1
abatement consultant
Carpet F A2
Vinyl composite tile at 3rd floor F Replace chipped tiles.
A3,
Athletic flooring F
A4
walls
Chipped paint at corners C A5
Sealant at wall-hung lavatory F A6
Walls – miscellaneous C A7
Brick at penthouse F A8
doors and frames
Wood doors C/F A9
Interior metal doors and frames C A10
$200 (short term)
Exterior metal door and frame HP A11
$5K-$6K (long term)
casework
Casework F $300 - $800 A12
ceilings
General maintenance to
Ceiling tiles and panels C
replace and secure tiles.
notes:
A1. Consult with abatement professionals on how to best replace chipped or missing tile in areas where tile
is encapsulating probable asbestos containing material (ACM) in the adhesive.
A2. Broadloom carpet at first and fourth floors (and other areas) is worn but serviceable. Recommend
planning for carpet tile for future replacement to better facilitate updates to worn areas only.
A3. Provide new adhesive to secure tiles where gap has formed in athletic flooring.
A4. Replace interlocking tiles which have de-laminated surfaces. (Verify if attic stock is on hand.)
A5. Touch-up paint as needed throughout building. Consider corner guards at high-traffic areas.
2022 Page 9
City Hall
Parks Department
Architectural-Interior
A6. Remove existing sealant at perimeter of lavatory. Patch paint if necessary and re-apply sealant.
A7. Maintenance staff: correct bent metal louver blade; replace missing switch cover; in-fill gap at wall in
Human Resources (wood or gypsum board patch and paint).
A8. Clean effervescence off brick in penthouse and monitor for reoccurrence after exterior conditions are
corrected.
A9. Lightly sand and re-finish scratched wood doors and wood frames.
A10. Touch-up chipped paint at interior doors and frames as needed.
A11. Short-term recommendation: replace weatherstripping at perimeter of exterior door. Sand rusted
surfaces and apply rust-inhibiting paint. Long-term recommendation: plan for replacement of door and
frame.
A12. Provide clear sealant at gap in plastic laminate. Recommend replacing cracked and de-laminated
surface. If matching laminate is available, installer may be able to remove just damaged portion.
Basement
Chipped floor tile Chipped paint
2022 Page 10
City Hall
Parks Department
Architectural-Interior
Chipped paint at wall Missing weatherstripping at rusted door
First floor
Worn carpet – legal area Excessive sealant at lavatory
Ripped carpet seam Visible wall patches
2022 Page 11
City Hall
Parks Department
Architectural-Interior
Small chip in ceiling panel 2nd & 3rd floors: typical chipped paint at exterior corner
Third floor
Chipped floor tiles Bent louver blades
Scratched wood door Typical spline ceiling issues
2022 Page 12
City Hall
Parks Department
Architectural-Interior
Fourth floor
Gap in rubber floor tile De-laminated interlocking floor tiles
Bubbled carpet at NE office Chipped paint at HM frames
Typical spline ceiling issues Missing light fixture
2022 Page 13
City Hall
Parks Department
Architectural-Interior
Damaged ceiling tile – adjacent to IT room
Fifth floor
Plastic laminate gap Cracked, damaged plastic laminate
Fill gap in wall Scratched wood finish
2022 Page 14
City Hall
Parks Department
Architectural-Interior
Sixth floor
Peeling paint from glazed block
Penthouse
Effervescence on west wall Effervescence on east wall
2022 Page 15
City Hall
Parks Department
Code & Accessibility
code compliance and accessibility
building data
code references based on 2015 IBC
Basement: 14,021 SF
First Floor: 13,349 SF
Year(s) Constructed 1955 (date on building 1956) Gross Area Floors two - six: 13,433 SF
Penthouse: 2,346 SF
Total: 96,881 SF
The WI building code at the time of construction and additions would have placed
Occupancy Classification the building under Chapter 54 Factory, Office, Mercantile occupancy category.
(Chapter 3 of IBC)
Current code would place it under B Business.
Construction Type
Construction Type I-B (2-hour concrete beams, columns & floor slabs, 1-hour roof)
(Chapter 6 IBC)
summary of code compliance/life safety
The Green Bay City Hall complied with the building code, as adopted by Wisconsin, at the time it was constructed.
If a future modification or renovation is undertaken, any items/areas modified or updated would need to be brought
into compliance with the current code. Additional modifications may be triggered, depending on the scope of work.
Careful review of code should be done prior to any renovation project to identify other mandated upgrades.
This assessment will identify items that have changed or are identified differently from the previous assessment in
2015. Updates to the existing facility that are required will be noted as such. Others will be noted for reference
when planning future renovations.
egress
Two means of egress area available from all areas of the occupied floors of the building. The penthouse has a
single means of egress, which is allowable for its area and use.
stairs, ramps and shafts
Currently, stair shafts are designated for up or down movement only, to minimize potential spread of Covid 19
between occupants. In the case of a fire or emergency, either stair shaft is available for use.
handrails and guardrails
There is no change to this aspect of the building from the previous assessment. Handrail extensions past the
lowest tread are not present but grandfathered in as compliant when built. These are not a significant safety
hazard. Note that the recommendation for additional guards on the rails at open sides of stairs is still pertinent. The
openings between guards are over 12” wide. While grandfathered in as compliant at time of construction, these
openings would not comply with current code requirements for openings of less than 4”.
summary of accessibility/ADA compliance
ADA standards
The Americans with Disabilities Act places establishes an additional level of requirements on public and
commercial facilities in terms of accessibility. Unlike a building code, it is a federal law which requires continual
compliance, regardless of when a building was built. Accessibility items noted in this report fall under this category
and should thus be addressed in a timely manner.
In addition, Wisconsin has adopted the 2015 suite of International Building Codes (IBC). Chapter 11 of the IBC
directs that “buildings and facilities shall be designed and constructed to be accessible in accordance with this
code and ICC A117.1-09.” This codifies most of the same accessibility standards as those found in the ADA.
2022 Page 16
City Hall
Parks Department
Code & Accessibility
accessible route
Drinking fountains with water bottle fillers have been installed at most floors. Extensions to the wall or other
obstructions have been provided to ensure that the drinking fountains do not protrude more than the allowable 4”
from the corridor wall.
The City Council room has a two-level platform at the front of the room, which is not accessible. While there would
be space for a ramp to the lower level, there is not space to the upper platform unless some of the lower seated
spaces were removed. The second floor Committee Room has a similar single-level platform.
The fifth-floor accessible toilet room has a table in place which impedes on the clear floor space for the toilet
fixture.
The light switch for the first-floor accessible toilet room is not in the room, but in the passageway leading to the
toilet room.
doors
Most doors used by the public and staff have been converted to either lever handles or push/pull hardware, both of
which are accessible. Some doors still have knob hardware, which is not accessible. Doors observed with knobs
were either not required to be accessible or were not the sole entrance to a usable room.
casework
A portion of each reception desk in various offices is at accessible height for those in wheelchairs.
plumbing fixtures and grab bars
Drinking fountains with water bottle fillers have been installed in public corridors. For full accessibility to standing
height people, cups are provided at the drinking fountain in the second-floor corridor, near the City Council
Chambers.
The sixth-floor staff break room has been provided with a sink that has forward-approach accessibility. Lavatories
are at accessible height, but do not provide pipe protection to areas below.
All toilets in accessible toilet rooms are below the minimum accessible height. Some of these fixtures have been
provided with height extenders to offer a seat height that is closer to (but not at) accessible height.
Toilet room on third floor has a grab bar mounted to an access panel. It was not verified whether this supports the
required amount of weight for compliance. (ADA 609.8 requires grab bars to support a vertical or horizontal force
of 250 lbs.)
A vertical grab bar is required at all accessible toilets per ICC A117.1 604.5.1. These bars were not present. (See
image below.)
2022 Page 17
City Hall
Parks Department
Code & Accessibility
The chart below summarizes accessible elements in each of the accessible toilet rooms. ADA/ICC A117.1 ranges are
noted at the top of the chart for reference. Heights not in compliance are highlighted yellow.
Floor/room toilet seat grab bar heights lavatory rim notes
height height
ADA / ICC A117.1 17” to 19” 33” to 36” 34” maximum
ICC A117.1 Min. 18” 33” to 36” 34” maximum Code required heights
1st - Women/Accessible 16 ¼” 33 ¼” 33 ½” 32 ¼” Light switch is in corridor.
2nd – Accessible 20 ¼” 34 ¾” 36 ½” 33 ½”
3rd – Accessible 15 ½” 35 1/8” 33 1/8” 33 7/8”
4th – Accessible 15 ¾” 34 3/8” 32 ¼” 33 1/8”
5th - Accessible 16 3/8” 34 3/16” 34 3/16” 33 ¼”
6th - Accessible 16 ¾” 34 ½” 34 3/8” 33 ¼”
legend
Deficient – Critical Priority – High Priority –
Fair – Compliant/
Immediate Replace Replace New Not Applicable
D Replacement CP in 1-2 years HP in 3-5 years F Replace C Adequate N NA
in 6-10 years
architectural elements grade budget cost notes comments
Code compliance / Life safety
Egress and Safety C
Stairs, ramps and shafts C
Handrails/guardrails F CA1
Accessibility / ADA compliance
Accessible route HP $400 – $1,000 CA2
CA3
Clear floor space F
CA4
Doors F CA5
Casework C
Plumbing: lavatories F CA6
Plumbing: toilets F CA7
Grab bars F CA8
notes:
CA1. Recommend in-fill panels at inner sides of stair tower guards to meet current codes and prevent objects over
4” from passing through.
CA2. Provide permanent or portable ramps to allow accessibility to raised platform levels of City Council
Chambers and Committee Room.
CA3. Light switch for first floor accessible toilet room should be relocated to inside of the room.
2022 Page 18
City Hall
Parks Department
Code & Accessibility
CA4. Relocate table in fifth floor accessible toilet room if persons with accessibility needs work on this floor.
CA5. As part of continuing maintenance program, continue to replace knob handles with lever handles.
CA6. Provide pipe protection. See Plumbing section of report for additional information.
CA7. Begin program to replace toilets in accessible toilet rooms to provide fixtures that meet seat height
requirements. See Plumbing section of report for additional recommendations.
CA8. Re-mount grab bar in fourth floor toilet room to compliant height.
Large openings in open side of stair rails Lack of handrail extension past lowest tread
Council platform not accessible Committee room platform not accessible
2022 Page 19
City Hall
Parks Department
Code & Accessibility
Drinking cups provided at water fountain Sink with front-approach accessibility
Knob handle on door Typical lever handled door
3rd floor: grab bar mounted on panel 5th floor: Typical missing vertical grab bar
2022 Page 20
City Hall
Parks Department
Structural
structural system
summary
The structure consists of cast-in-place concrete floor slabs, beams, and columns bearing on a concrete
foundation system.
legend
Deficient – Critical Priority – High Priority –
Fair – Compliant/
Immediate Replace Replace New Not Applicable
D Replacement CP in 1-2 years HP in 3-5 years F Replace C Adequate N NA
in 6-10 years
budget
structural elements grade notes comments
cost
Year 1956 (Berners-Schober Comm. No. 2020)
structure type
Cast-in-place concrete foundation/basement
Foundations C walls bearing on individual spread or continuous
strip footings.
Floor is typically a 4” concrete slab on grade with
Basement C S1 6x6 - 10/10 welded wire mesh reinforcing. 5” slab
in boiler room.
3” concrete/terrazzo topping over a combination
of 4” solid one-way slabs and 4” +2”, 6” +2”, and
First floor C
10”+2” tile & joist slabs supported by cast-in-place
concrete beams and columns.
3” concrete/terrazzo topping over a combination
of 4” solid one-way slabs and 4” +2”and 6” +2”
Second floor C S2
tile & joist slabs supported by cast-in-place
concrete beams and columns.
3” concrete/terrazzo topping over a combination
Third, fourth, fifth, and of 4” solid one-way slabs and 4” +2” tile & joist
C
sixth floors slabs supported by cast-in-place concrete beams
and columns.
Combination of 4” or 5” solid one-way slabs and
4” +2” tile & joist slabs supported by cast-in-place
Roof/penthouse floor C S3
concrete beams and columns. 3” concrete
topping in penthouse.
6” +2” tile & joist slabs supported on load-bearing
Penthouse roof C
masonry walls.
building risk category NA Risk Category II.
Construction Type I-B (2-hour concrete beams,
construction type NA
columns & floor slabs, 1-hour roof)
vertical expandability NA None.
typical column
NA N/A
spacing
overall structural The existing building is structurally sound with no
C
condition significant deficiencies noted.
2022 Page 21
City Hall
Parks Department
Structural
notes:
S1. There is minor shrinkage cracking in the concrete slab on grade in the basement at various locations. The
cracking is not a cause for structural concern at this time.
S2. There is some minor settlement cracking in the glazed tile walls near the corners of the stairwells.
However, the tile is non-load bearing, and no remedial action is recommended at this time.
S3. In addition to the recommended masonry repairs identified in the Architectural section, there is some
expansion cracking in the face brick near the outside corners of the penthouse. It is not impairing the
structural function of the walls, so no remedial action is immediately necessary. However, these cracks
should be routed and sealed whenever the recommended repairs are performed.
Shrinkage cracks in basement slab Settlement cracks in glazed tile walls of stairs
(Note S1) (Note S2)
Expansion cracking of brick penthouse
(Note S3)
2022 Page 22
City Hall
Parks Department
Plumbing
plumbing systems
summary
City Hall was constructed in 1956. The original piping is in fair condition and can be replaced as needed. Insulation
could be added to the hot water piping for energy savings. Thermostatic mixing valves (TMV’s) should be added to
correct code issues. Eyewashes require tempered water – add TMV’s.
Building is served by interior roof drains on the main roof and serving the Penthouse roof. There is no secondary
drainage for the building.
Plumbing fixtures are older, flush valve(s) which could be updated to conserve water. Each floor has a dedicated
ADA compliant toilet room. Building utilities in general appear adequate.
legend
Deficient – Critical Priority – High Priority – Fair –
Compliant/
D Immediate CP Replace HP Replace F Replace C Adequate N New N/A Not Applicable
Replacement in 1-2 years in 3-5 years in 6-10 years
budget
plumbing systems grade notes comments
cost
Water piping condition F P1 Copper piping
Sanitary piping condition F P2 PVC & cast iron
Storm/clearwater system D $40,000 P3 Cast iron, roof drains, no secondary
Valves HP $5,000 P4 Gate & ball
Domestic water service C P5 4” main – combined w/FP
Insulation HP $20,000 P6 Add insulation
See
Code issues D P7 TMV, backflow prevention
below
equipment
Electric unit replaced since last
Domestic water heater F P8
assessment
Recirculation pump(s) F P9 Grundfos
Water softener F P10 (2) Diamond units
Eyewash(es) D $5,000 P11 Add TMV’s
Therm. mixing valve (TMV) D $7,500 P12 Add TMV (code issue)
Drain tile, sanitary sump/pump(s) F $500 P13 Submersible, Simplex
Plumbing fixtures F P14
Backflow prevention D $500 P15 Add vacuum breaker(s) on hose connection
“Shop” air compressor NA
Elevator sump pit HP $15,000 P16 No pit or pump installed
Chilled Water Unit F P17 For drinking fountains
2022 Page 23
City Hall
Parks Department
Plumbing
budget
plumbing systems grade notes comments
cost
exterior
Storm Drainage, Roof Drains F See P3 P18 No secondary drainage
Utilities F P19 4” water main, 4” sanitary sewer
notes:
P1. Water piping is copper, soldered joints. Original main is galvanized piping. Fair condition. Piping is
missing insulation in some areas.
P2. Original sanitary is cast iron, hub & spigot and threaded galvanized. Piping from the later remodeling(s) is
cast iron no-hub or PVC.
Recommendation: replace sanitary waste/vent piping with new PVC as required.
P3. Storm system has interior roof drains on the main roof. The Penthouse roof discharges over the roof
edge, onto the main roof below - no roof drain(s) or scuppers. As a result, the rainwater is deteriorating
the concrete and brick below the roof edge. No secondary overflow roof drainage system is installed.
Storm piping within the building is not insulated.
Note: Secondary drainage needs to be addressed per code and the Penthouse roof needs roof drains or
scuppers installed for proper drainage. Existing roof drains should be replaced in the next roofing
project, as they are in poor condition.
P4. Older valves are gate, newer valves are ball and butterfly. Several older valves are leaking, as evidenced
by the pail(s) in basement hanging below the valve(s) that are leaking.
P5. Building is served by a 4” water main. Domestic main is 3” with a 2” meter set and 3-valve bypass. There
is also a separate 3” water main with booster pump that serves the building’s standpipe system.
P6. Water piping is insulated with glass fiber and/or elastomeric insulation. Insulation is missing in some
areas. Insulation could be added for energy savings and to prevent condensation.
P7. Code issues: No thermostatic mixing valve (TMV) at the water heater. Add TMV per code. Eyewashes
require tempered water – install TMV’s. Add hose end vacuum breakers to all faucets with hose
connections.
P8. Water heater is a electric AO Smith model LTE-80D 200, 208/240V, 5500/5500 dual watt, 80-gallon
unit. [previous WH in yr 2014 was gas fired} Add TMV to the water heater piping. Set temperature to max.
110-115 degrees F. - per code.
P9. Recirculation pump is Grundfos model #UP26-99, ¾” connection.
P10. Water softener is a Diamond duplex residential unit with brine tank. Units serve the boiler feed only.
P11. Eyewashes require tempered water. Install TMV’s to each unit.
P12. Add TMV at water heater. Set temperature to 110-115 degrees F. (max. temperature allowed per code.)
P13. Draintile sump/pump is Simplex submersible. Sanitary sump pump, previously a Duplex, is now Simplex.
Pump serves basement fixtures only. Piping is galvanized and PVC. Sumps should have a high-water
alarm installed.
2022 Page 24
City Hall
Parks Department
Plumbing
P14. Each floor has a dedicated ADA compliant toilet room with a wall-hung WC (water closet), sensor control
flush valve. Lavatory is wall-hung with electronic sensor faucet. Lavatory should have safety covers
installed per ADA requirements. Men’s/women’s public toilet rooms have wall-hung WC’s with concealed
flush valves. Lavatory is wall-hung with sensor faucet; urinal is floor mounted with electronic flush valve.
Piping is concealed in pipe chase behind fixtures. Each floor has a new EWC (electric water cooler) with
ADA accessible bottle filler. Chiller in the basement could be removed, since it was set-up for the original
vitreous drinking fountains-see note P17. Some floors have breakroom stainless steel sink(s) with lever
control faucet. Basement has a few janitors’ sinks and a prefab shower stall. Exterior: several non-freeze
sill faucets.
Recommendation: replace existing 3.5 gpf water closets with 1.6 gpf fixtures as required. Install safety
covers at lavatory p-trap and water stops, especially at the ADA toilet rooms.
P15. Basement: Watts 909, ¾” RPZ backflow preventer for the boilers. Penthouse: Watts 9d for the AHU’s.
Install hose end vacuum breakers on all hose threaded connections. Vending machine water connection
should have a Watts SD3 in-line vacuum breaker installed per code.
P16. No sump pit/pump installed in the elevator shaft. Pump would be required by today’s code but is
grandfathered in as compliant since the building was constructed in 1956. Pump/sump should be added
if there are water issues in the elevator shaft. Route pump discharge to the closest storm sewer.
P17. There is a Filtrine chiller in the basement with a dedicated piping system that serves the drinking fountain
in the basement and the newer electric water coolers on each floor. Presently the chiller is serving
electric water coolers that already have a cooler on them. If the last remaining drinking fountain in the
basement was replaced, the chiller unit in the basement could be removed.
P18. The upper Penthouse does not have roof drainage, rainwater discharges over the roof edge to drains on
the main roof. This discharge pattern is deteriorating the concrete and brick walls of the Penthouse. The
main building roof has interior cast iron roof drains, that are in poor condition and should be replaced.
There is no secondary overflow roof drainage system installed, which would be required by today’s
code. Areaways have a drain(s) installed, which connects to the drain tile system for discharge. West
entrance canopies discharge to grade, over the roof flashing edge.
P19. Building is served by a 4” water main, 3” for domestic water and 3” boosted main for the fire protection
standpipe system. Sanitary sewer is 6” routed to Walnut Street. Several 6” storm sewers routes to Walnut
and Jefferson Streets. Parking lots have interior catch basin(s). The north parking lots pitch west to catch
basins located at the drives. The east parking lot pitches south to catch basins and a curb inlet.
Storm and water piping Cast iron vent piping
2022 Page 25
City Hall
Parks Department
Plumbing
Vent, water piping in penthouse Expansion joint (4th floor) toilet chase
Flush valve in toilet chase Piping in toilet chase – typical
2” water meter, 4” water main Sanitary vent piping
2022 Page 26
City Hall
Parks Department
Plumbing
Chiller for drinking fountain(s) Leaking valve(s)
Electric water heater Water softeners-duplex
HWR recirculation pump Eyewash – boiler room
2022 Page 27
City Hall
Parks Department
Plumbing
Eyewash – penthouse Drain tile, sanitary sump/pump
Pump discharge piping WC – ADA (typical per floor)
Lavatory – ADA (typical per floor) WC – public toilet room
2022 Page 28
City Hall
Parks Department
Plumbing
Lavatory – public toilet room Urinal – men’s public
Electric water cooler – typical corridor Dual electric water cooler(s)
Toilet room – 2nd floor Drinking fountain - basement
2022 Page 29
City Hall
Parks Department
Plumbing
Janitors’ sink – boiler room Clean-up sink
Break room sink Break room sink
Kitchen sink – 6th floor RPZ backflow preventer
2022 Page 30
City Hall
Parks Department
Plumbing
Roof drain Penthouse roof
Canopy roof(s)
Area well – east face Area well drain
2022 Page 31
City Hall
Parks Department
Plumbing
Parking lot - north Parking lot - east
2022 Page 32
City Hall
Parks Department
Fire Protection
fire protection systems
summary
City hall was built in 1955 and had a standpipe system and fire pump installed at that time. The fire pump serves
only the standpipe system, no sprinkler system is installed in the building.
Based on its condition the fire pump appears to be the original pump. The fire pump is showing signs of severe
corrosion and leaking and is not located within its own rated enclosure as required by the current edition of NFPA
20. If the fire pump is replaced it will required to be brought up to the current adopted standards.
The standpipe system is a Class II system, which includes 1 ½” hose valves. The 2015Edition of the IFC requires that
a Class III Standpipe system, which includes both 1 ½” and 2 ½” hose valves, be installed in all buildings with a floor
height higher than 30’ above the level of access. It also requires that the valves be located within exit stairways.
The existing hose valves are located in the corridor on each floor, adjacent to the stairwells.
legend
Deficient – Critical Priority – High Priority – Fair –
Compliant/
D Immediate CP Replace HP Replace F Replace C Adequate N New N/A Not Applicable
Replacement in 1-2 years in 3-5 years in 6-10 years
budget
fire protection grade notes comments
cost
Water service C FP1 6” Water service
Backflow prevention C FP2 3” Watts double check valve
Fire pump HP $55,000 FP3 Fairbanks Morse
Fire pump controller HP See pump FP3
Jockey pump HP $10,000 FP3 No jockey pump at fire pump
Jockey pump controller HP See pump FP3
Wet pipe sprinkler system NA FP4
Sprinkler heads NA
Percent of building unit sprinkled 0% Not sprinklered
Fire suppression system C FP5 IT room
Standpipe system D $65,000 FP6 1 ½” hose valves
notes:
FP1. A 6” water main enters the building in the basement mechanical room on the south side of the building. The
main is reduced to a 3” main before passing through the backflow preventer.
FP2. A 3” Watts Model 709 double check valve backflow preventer protects the domestic water supply from
contamination by the standpipe system. The isolation valves on the backflow preventer are locked in the
open position but are not electronically monitored. The standpipe system has a 3” check valve inline from
the FDC (fire department connection) that is located on the south wall of the building.
Note: the FDC should have an alarm bell installed above it - to identify location.
2022 Page 33
City Hall
Parks Department
Fire Protection
FP3. Based on its condition the fire pump is believed to be the original fire pump installed in 1955 although it
appears to have been relocated at some point in time. No nameplate was found on the fire pump, but the
test card attached to the piping indicates that it is a 200 GPM 40 PSI fire pump. The fire pump does not have
a jockey pump installed that is required to maintain pressure in the system.
The fire pump is in poor condition; it is leaking and shows signs of severe corrosion. The pump, located in
the mechanical room, is not in a dedicated two-hour enclosure. The current installation meets the installation
standards when the pump was installed, but any changes or updates to the fire pump system will be required
to meet the current adopted standards. NFPA 20 2013 Edition requires that a fire pump in a non-sprinkled
building shall be separated from the rest of the building by two-hour construction. Upgrading the fire pump
will also require adding jockey pump and controller.
However, NFPA 14 allows for the installation of manual Wet Standpipe Systems in non-high-rise buildings if
the local AHJ finds that installation acceptable. This means that an upgrade of the standpipe system to meet
today’s codes could result in the removal of the fire pump, pending the AHJ’s approval.
FP4. IFC 2015 Edition requires that in buildings, where the floor level of the highest story is higher than 30 feet
above the level of access, a Class III Standpipe System be installed in the building. A Class III Standpipe
consists of both 1 ½” hose valve and a 2 ½” hose valve. This building is equipped only with a Class II system
consisting of 1 ½” hose valves. IFC 2015 Edition also requires that hose valves on a Class III system be
located within every required stairway. The existing hose valves are located in the corridor, not within the
stairway. As stated in FP3, an upgrade of the standpipe system to a Class III system would allow for the
installation of a semi-automatic system.
In the penthouse cables and wires are zip tied to the standpipe piping, nothing is allowed to be attached to
the fire protection piping.
FP5. The IT room (4th floor) has a Ansul Halon 1301 fire suppression system and nozzle installed in the room. The
system is controlled by a AutoPulse Z-10 agent release control panel.
FP6. The existing standpipe system is a 1 ½” system. The current standard requires 2 ½” hose valves on the
system. IFC 2015 also requires that hose valves on the standpipe system be installed in every required exit
stairway. The valves are currently installed in the corridor on each floor. Upgrading the standpipe system
would involve installing new risers in each stairway and new hose valves on each intermediate landing.
Backflow preventer Fire pump
2022 Page 34
City Hall
Parks Department
Fire Protection
FDC check valve Cable attached to standpipe
Hose valve cabinet Ansul Halon 1301 – IT room
Halon control panel – IT room Valve cabinet - basement
2022 Page 35
City Hall
Parks Department
Fire Protection
Hose valve – penthouse Fire dept. connection
2022 Page 36
City Hall
Parks Department
HVAC Systems
HVAC systems
summary
The building was constructed in 1956 and has undergone numerous renovation projects affecting the HVAC
systems. The boilers are original to the building’s construction. The refractory is inspected and maintained each
year. The boiler controls and burners have been upgraded and/or replaced. The boilers were retubed and should
have another 15-20 years of useful life. The steam system serves air unit heating coils and steam-to-water heat
exchangers that provide hot water to the building’s heating units. The penthouse heating system was replaced
years ago and remains in fair condition. The pumps appear to be in fair condition. The basement heating system
pump was replaced years ago as well and is in fair condition. The basement system is not insulated.
The main building ventilation system is a built-up high pressure induction air unit located in the mechanical
penthouse. The unit is original to the building’s construction, but the major components have been replaced. The
coils continue to show signs of deterioration and will require increased maintenance until they fail. This air unit
serves induction units located under each window. The induction units are original to the building’s construction.
The unit’s drain pans are deteriorating and on occasion become plugged, causing overflows into the building’s
envelope cavity. There are no filters on the units which allows the coils to become dirty/plugged and not perform
adequately. The units are served by a two-pipe system which allows either heating or cooling of the entire building.
A two-pipe system was a cost-effective way of providing heating and cooling at the time of construction, however it
leads to temperature fluctuations on opposite sides of the building in the spring and fall. The occupants will
typically be more uncomfortable than with a four-pipe system.
There are three additional air units. One air unit is dedicated to the basement, one dedicated to the council
chambers, and one dedicated to interior spaces on the upper floor. The units are original to the building’s
construction, but the major components have been replaced. The cooling coils are continuing to deteriorate and
will require increased maintenance until they fail.
A water-cooled air unit is located in a closet on first floor and serves the reception desk and a room on second
floor. The unit requires replacement, or the space should be served off a larger central system. Occupant
dissatisfaction with the unit’s operation has led the staff to simply turn the unit off.
The chiller was replaced in 2008 and the cooling tower in 2011. The pumps have also been replaced. The piping, in
general, is in fair condition. Pipe insulation is missing or has deteriorated around the air unit coils and is causing
rust and deterioration of the piping. The lack of insulation at the induction unit coils allows condensation to form
and drip into the building’s envelope cavity.
Four main exhaust fans serve the building’s exhaust ventilation requirements. The fans are in poor condition, and
the ducts, mostly original to the building, are dirty and leak. Exhaust ventilation is reduced significantly at the lower
levels. A fan, that previously served a blueprint machine, is believed to still be abandoned in the areaway. The fan
is powered with the manual on/off/auto switch located in a break room.
There are rooms throughout the building that are occupied and not ventilated. The corridors throughout the
building are used as plenums to transfer the air from the outer offices to the return grilles located in the corridors or
to the interior toilet rooms. The printing department, located in the basement, has cooling, ventilation, and humidity
issues associated with being connected to the single zone air unit #4.
The IT department cooling unit was installed approximately 13 years ago (per staff) to provide additional air
conditioning to this department. No major issues with the unit’s operation were noted. Floor and ceiling tiles have
been modified/removed which short circuits the air flow throughout the room and allows infiltration from adjacent
spaces.
The building controls are primarily pneumatic with some DDC control added to the air units, chiller, and boiler
systems to provide some central monitoring. Air compressors are located in the boiler room.
2022 Page 37
City Hall
Parks Department
HVAC Systems
legend
Deficient – Critical Priority – High Priority – Fair –
Compliant/
D Immediate CP Replace HP Replace F Replace C Adequate N New N/A Not Applicable
Replacement in 1-2 years in 3-5 years in 6-10 years
budget
HVAC systems grade notes comments
cost
AHU-1 Original 1956.
Housing HP $520,000 H1 Upstream of coils in fair condition.
Air intake D (incl.) H1 Outside air dampers are shut.
Steam, Chilled water. Chilled water coil
Coils CP (incl.) H1
casing is deteriorating.
Fan HP 20000 CFM, 50HP
Filters HP 30%
Pneumatic actuators, some DDC
Controls HP
interface.
Insulation missing at some ductwork.
Minor damage to insulation throughout
Insulation HP (incl.) H1
penthouse. Cooling coil piping is in poor
condition.
Original except where replaced during
projects. The main exit corridor is used as
Mechanical room ductwork D (incl.) H1
a return plenum on each floor. No
economizer.
No fire dampers at the floor penetrations.
Distribution ductwork HP $1,252,000 H1
Shafts are not fire rated/protected.
Exterior room comfort
Most units original to building. Two-pipe
system. Thermal issues throughout
Induction terminals HP $3.38M H2
building. No filters on unit. Deteriorating
drain pans.
AHU-2 Original 1956
Housing HP $210,000 H3 Rusting around the coils.
Air intake D
From AHU-1
Coils HP (incl.) H3 Chilled water coil casing is deteriorating.
Fan F 4800 CFM, 3 HP
Filters F 30% (From AHU-1)
Pneumatic actuators, some DDC
Controls F
interface.
Original except where replaced during
Ductwork D (incl.) H3 projects. The corridor is used as a return
plenum. No economizer.
2022 Page 38
City Hall
Parks Department
HVAC Systems
budget
HVAC systems grade notes comments
cost
Insulation missing at some ductwork.
Insulation HP (incl.) H3 Chilled water insulation is in poor
condition.
AHU-3 Original 1956
Housing HP $210,000 H4 Rusting around the coils.
Air intake D
From AHU-1
Coils HP (incl.) H4 Chilled water coil casing is deteriorating.
Fan F 2000 CFM, 1 HP
Filters F 30% (From AHU-1)
Pneumatic actuators, some DDC
Controls F
interface.
Original except where replaced during
Ductwork D (incl.) projects. The corridor is used as a
plenum. No economizer.
Insulation missing at some ductwork.
Insulation HP (incl.) H4 Chilled water insulation is in poor
condition.
AHU-4 Original 1956
Upsize the replacement unit to serve the
Housing HP $210,000 H5
entire basement.
Air intake HP (incl.) H5
Steam and chilled water. Chilled water
Coils HP (incl.) H5
coil added later, downstream of unit.
Fan HP (incl.) H5 1700 CFM, 1/2 HP
Filters C 30%
Pneumatic actuators, some DDC
Controls HP (incl.) H5
interface.
Ductwork has been revised and
extended to serve mainly the copy room
Ductwork D (incl.) H5
and some office area. The corridor is
used as a return plenum. No economizer.
Exposed duct. Outside air duct did not
Insulation HP (incl.) H5
appear to be insulated.
AHU-5
Unit is turned off due to staff
Housing D $30,000 H6
dissatisfaction.
City water cooled. Recommend 1.5-ton air
Coils CP (incl.) H6
cooled condensing unit.
Filter HP (incl.) H6 20%
2022 Page 39
City Hall
Parks Department
HVAC Systems
budget
HVAC systems grade notes comments
cost
Chiller/cooling tower H7
Chiller C Installed 2008, 160 tons, R134A
Cooling tower C Installed 2011
320 GPM, 10 HP(CT) and 480 GPM, 10
Pumps C
HP(CWS)
Insulation C Some damaged areas.
Data room cooling units H7
Approximately 13 years old. No issues
Housing F
indicated by staff.
Condensing units F
exhaust fans
Four centrifugal fans. Consider
General exhaust HP $40,000 H8 replacement with a single unit. Exhaust
fan and ductwork is needed in basement.
Mostly original. Minimal replacement
during renovation projects. Lint/dust is
Exhaust ductwork HP $50,000 H8 coating the grilles and ductwork.
Recommend cleaning, sealing, and
rebalance.
heating system
Original boilers. Controls and Burners are
Boilers HP $350,000 H9 upgraded. Refractory ok (per staff). 15,180
EDR, 15 PSI steam.
(2) 0.5 HP boiler feed pumps.
Pumps C (2) 10 HP secondary pumps (330 GPM)
Fractional HP basement Pump (16 GPM)
Converters F
Piping F
Penthouse seasonal water pumps are not
insulated for pumping cold water. No
Pipe insulation CP $26,000 H9 insulation on basement steam to water
converter. Original insulation is
deteriorating.
Older Units. Zone thermostat controls
Room terminal units HP $65,000 H10
units in multiple rooms. Thermal issues.
mechanical room ventilation
Refrigerant leak sensor installed. Fan
appears to be adequately sized.
Mechanical room HP $11,000 H11
Recommend control improvement for
ventilation to control space temperature.
Combustion intake at high louver, not
Boiler room D $13,000 H11
ducted to structure above or to floor.
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HVAC Systems
budget
HVAC systems grade notes comments
cost
controls H12
Air compressor C Two Simplex 2 HP units with extra tank.
Original pneumatics. Replace with low
Room control F voltage DDC during mechanical
improvement projects.
Upgrade required with major mechanical
DDC control HP $50,000 H12
replacement project. Installed 2002.
notes:
H1. AHU-1 is a built-up unit. The intake and filters also serve AHU-2 and AHU-3. The intake dampers are
closed. A contractor told staff that the leakage through the damper provides 5% outside air which is
approximately 1,250 CFM. The building exhaust is approximately 4 times greater which indicates the
building is under a constant negative pressure. It is recommended to balance the system to provide the
additional outside air, achieve a positively pressurized building, and improve the indoor air quality.
The air unit housing has continued to deteriorate. Some upstream components are in fair condition while
the coil areas are more deteriorated. The major components have been maintained and upgraded to
keep the unit operational well beyond the unit’s expected useful life. The unit’s coils will require
increased maintenance until they fail. There is no return fan or relief air damper on this unit to allow the
unit to economize and take advantage of moderate weather conditions. This unit utilizes the buildings
exit corridors as plenums which is no longer allowed by code as it creates a safety hazard in a fire
emergency. The ductwork floor penetrations did not appear to be protected at each floor. It is
recommended to replace this air unit and reconfigure the duct systems to provide an economizer and
protect penetrations between floors.
The distribution supply ductwork is located in the outer walls between sets of induction terminals. The
return ductwork is located in a centralized shaft. The high priority (HP) grade is given to allow this item’s
estimated cost to be grouped into the building cost summary but with continued maintenance the unit
should remain functional for another 10 years. New building codes would require fire dampers at each
floor and the duct shafts to be 2-hr rated. Although installation of fire dampers and rated shafts will
improve building and occupant safety, the existing building code does not require it for an equipment
replacement project. Renovation projects which modify the shaft, ductwork, or equipment will require the
shafts to be upgraded.
H2. The building’s exterior rooms are served by induction units under each window. These units are served
by a two-pipe system which provides either hot or chilled water. The inability to heat and cool rooms
individually leads to overheating and overcooling of rooms in the spring and fall. To aid in manually
manipulating the units, staff has provided adjustable deflector panels on the windowsills to allow the
occupants to deflect the air into the room or to cover the sill outlet and minimize the amount of air
coming from the unit.
The unit’s drain pans continue to deteriorate and on occasion plug, which then overflows into the
building’s envelope. There are no filters on these units which allows lint to plug the unit’s coil. Staff
cleans the coils when a unit’s cover plate is removed for maintenance. The induction unit is poorly
ducted to the sill grille which allows air to be immediately recirculated into the induction unit. In addition,
the induction unit’s intake is extremely small compared to new units and this restricts its ability to induce
more air and allow greater air exchanges within the rooms. Pipe insulation has, in general, been removed
to maintain the induction units and control valves. Condensation forms on the bare pipe and it drips into
the envelope wall.
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HVAC Systems
The recommendation is to replace and upgrade the induction unit system. The budget offered in the
legend above will replace the induction units with a four-pipe system. Alternates to this type of system
include variable refrigerant flow and a ducted VAV system. The budget for these systems increases to
4.7 million. Each system type has advantages and disadvantages in regard to energy efficiency, ceiling
type, occupant disruption, and thermal comfort. It is recommended to review each system type and how
it affects the building occupants prior to budgeting for this project.
H3. AHU-2 is original to the building and serves the interior spaces on the upper two floors. The unit has
been maintained and the major components have been replaced to keep the unit operational well past
its expected useful life. The unit housing is continuing to deteriorate around the coils. Pipe insulation is
missing, and condensation is deteriorating the piping and valve components. This unit utilizes the
buildings exit corridors as plenums which is no longer allowed by code as it creates a safety hazard in a
fire emergency. It is recommended to replace this air unit, add an economizer, and revise the ductwork
serving the floors. Recommend replacing this air unit simultaneously with the other penthouse units.
H4. AHU-3 is original to the building. The unit has been maintained and the major components have been
replaced to keep the unit operational well past its expected useful life. The unit housing continues to
deteriorate around the coils. Pipe insulation is missing, and condensation is deteriorating the piping and
valve components. This unit utilizes the buildings exit corridors as plenums which is no longer allowed by
code as it creates a safety hazard in a fire emergency. It is recommended to replace this air unit
simultaneously with the other penthouse units and consider omitting this unit if a variable refrigerant flow
system is utilized as indicated in H1 above.
H5. AHU-4, located in the basement, is primarily meant to serve the copy room although the duct main has
been tapped to serve some office space. The unit was originally heating only but a cooling coil has been
added downstream to provide air conditioning. The ductwork did not appear to be insulated. The unit
uses the main basement corridor as a plenum to return the air. There are multiple spaces that are
occupied that are not ventilated. The print shop area has temperature and humidity issues through most
of the year. This unit is in fair condition but is well past its expected useful life. It is too small to serve the
entire basement area. A project to replace the air unit, revise the duct system and properly ventilate the
basement rooms is recommended.
H6. AHU-5 is a water-cooled unit serving the welcome desk on first floor and a room on second floor. The
staff has this unit turned off due to the occupants’ dissatisfaction with its operation. Recommend
replacing this unit with a blower coil and a 1.5-ton condensing unit. For additional room comfort reheat
coils could be added in subsequent projects to allow individual room control. A variable refrigerant flow
system as indicated above would allow this unit to be omitted.
H7. The chiller, cooling tower, and IT department cooling unit have all been replaced within the last 13 years.
Staff did not indicate issues with any of the units’ operations.
H8. The office building exhaust system is served by multiple centrifugal fans. Dust and lint build-up is
prevalent at toilet room grilles and in the ductwork. Air flow within the lower-level rooms is diminished
and can be attributed to older leaky ductwork combined with the dirtying of the systems. Fire dampers at
the floor penetrations were not readily visible and may not exist. Duct cleaning, taping and sealing, and
air balancing are recommended. Multiple exhaust fans can be replaced with a single exhaust fan as
these fans primarily serve toilet rooms which are required to be ventilated when the building is occupied.
A side wall propeller fan installed in the basement recirculates air between the room and the corridor.
This fan is recommended to be removed and/or ducted to meet code. Recommend improving the
basement ventilation including the expansion/renovation of the existing exhaust system.
H9. The boilers are original to the building’s construction. The refractory is inspected annually and is repaired
as needed. The boilers were retubed since last evaluation and this will extend the expected life of the
internal components for another 15-20 years. The boiler burners and controls have been replaced and
upgraded over the years. The high priority (HP) grade is given to allow this item’s estimated cost to be
2022 Page 42
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HVAC Systems
grouped into the building cost summary. With continued maintenance the unit should remain functional
for another 10-15 years. However high efficiency hot water boilers or convertors will be needed if the
building undergoes major renovations to improve the indoor air quality and comfort. These are steam
boilers that serve three air unit steam coils and two steam to water heat exchangers. Originally, the
boilers served an absorption chiller, which has since been removed. The air units have very little steam
load. The current steam load is primarily the steam to water converter serving the hot water used in the
induction terminals. It is recommended to replace the steam boilers with hi-efficiency condensing hot
water boilers. Replacement of the boilers with steam boilers will escalate the construction estimate
offered in the legend above. It is recommended to pipe the boiler relief valves to the floor in the interim.
One steam to water heat exchanger is located in the basement and serves the basement and some first-
floor heating units. There is no insulation on the unit or the piping through most of the basement. The
pump appears to have been replaced in the last few years. Recommended removing this converter
system when the boilers are replaced with water boilers.
The steam to water heat exchanger system in the penthouse mechanical room has been replaced. This
unit serves the induction terminals. The pumps appear to be new and are used for both hot and chilled
water. The pumps are not insulated and condensation forms on the pumps and the adjacent piping. This
condensation will damage insulation and advance the corrosion of the piping and pump. Recommend
removing this converter system when the boilers are replaced and insulating the pumps to prevent
condensation.
H10. The basement heating units are combined and are controlled by zone thermostats. The zoning creates
uneven heating and thermal discomfort throughout the basement. Recommend revising the control by
adding a thermostat at each occupied room and a control valve at each heating unit.
Steam unit heaters are located sporadically around the building and appear to be original. The units
require replacement (or removal) when the boilers are replaced.
H11. The penthouse mechanical room has an exhaust fan that is operated by a refrigerant leak detector. The
electrical and communication equipment installed in the mechanical room generate heat. Recommend
revising the exhaust fan control to ventilate the room based on room temperature as well as refrigerant
leak detection.
The boiler room combustion air is served by several dampered louvers. These intakes terminate at the
louver about mid-height on the wall. Current code requires the combustion duct to terminate at high and
low points in the room. Recommend correcting the combustion ductwork when the boiler system is
replaced.
H12. The air compressor serving the buildings pneumatic controls appears to operate sufficiently. One of the
units appears to be about 7 years old. As systems are replaced, low voltage DDC controls are
recommended for installation as this will allow greater monitoring of the system. A DDC front end
computer is located in an office in the basement. The DDC controls were installed in 2002 and will
require an upgrade as the mechanical systems are replaced.
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HVAC Systems
AHU-1 steam coil AHU-2 and 3 coils
AHU-2 and AHU-3 AHU-4
Water cooled blower coil (AHU-5) AHU-1 intake
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HVAC Systems
Typical exhaust fan Mechanical room fan
Basement room ventilation fan Typical unit heater
Boiler (1 of 2) Boiler chemical feeder
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HVAC Systems
Condensate receiver Air dryer
Air compressors Temperature control computer
Induction unit water pumps Basement hot water system
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Parks Department
HVAC Systems
Building steam to water converters chiller
Condenser pump Chilled water pump
Cooling tower IT department condenser
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HVAC Systems
Typical induction unit piping Condensation below induction unit (in wall)
Exhaust grille (typical) Vestibule heater (typical)
Gas meter Exhaust fan discharge (abandoned)
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HVAC Systems
Transfer grille Print room dehumidification
(wood shop to hazardous storage) (humidity issues)
Hazardous storage Room circulation fan
(poor ventilation) (temperature issues)
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Electrical
electrical systems
summary
City Hall is served by a 2000 Amp, 120/208 Volt, three phase electrical service. The Main Switchboard (MSB) is a
Square D model Saflex fusible-switch type; it is in the basement. The MSB is original to the building (circa 1956).
Although the equipment appears in fair condition, Square D no longer supports this style of switchboard. Often the
mechanical component of a switch (the action of OPENING and CLOSING) becomes difficult to operate or simply
fails to operate. Eventually replacement parts become difficult to find. The MSB consists of three service disconnect
switches, and a distribution section. Each of the service disconnects is labeled – although more prominent labels
and labels identifying each disconnect by number (e.g. – Service Disconnect No. 1, Service Disconnect No. 2, etc.)
is recommended. The switch providing the normal power feed to the automatic transfer switch (ATS) is labeled
“Emergency Circuits Disconnect”. Recommend changing this label to “Normal Power to ATS” since “emergency”
circuits are fed from the generator and are not disconnected by this switch when utility power is lost. There is a
project waiting for funding which replaces all the distribution equipment.
Understanding how power is distributed in the penthouse could be improved by installing a motor control center.
Currently the feeder serving the penthouse is tapped several times to serve numerous disconnect switches. There
is a project waiting for funding which replaces all the distribution equipment.
A 60-KW diesel-fueled generator provides standby power. The generator is enclosed in a weather-housing and is
located on-grade near the southeast corner of the building. It feeds an automatic transfer switch (ATS) rated 225-
amps. The ATS is located in the basement across from the MSB. Although the generator serves both lighting and
non-lighting loads the presence of battery-operated emergency lighting throughout the building, plus the absence
of a second ATS, indicates the generator is not relied upon for emergency egress. The generator is reportedly
exercised under load each week. The diesel fuel tank is double-walled and situated in the generator’s support
structure.
The main emergency power panel (EPP) is located adjacent to the ATS. EPP is a Square D Load Center with a 200A
main circuit breaker. The panel has 24 1-pole spaces available.
A manual transfer switch with a pin-and-sleeve receptacle for connecting a temporary generator was installed in
the basement by the communications provider whose transmitting equipment is installed on the building’s rooftop.
The normal feed to the manual transfer switch is tapped from the bus of the MSB despite there being a spare 200A
switch available in the distribution section of MSB.
Branch panels for both normal and emergency power are manufactured by Square D. Many of these panels are
Square D model QO and are recessed (flush-mounted) in walls in the stairwells. One panel is in the Men’s room on
the first floor. Although the condition of these panels is good, Square D no longer manufactures the model QO, and
replacement parts are becoming more difficult to acquire. Having them located in the stairwells is unusual, and the
fact they are flush mounted makes it difficult to access if a new conduit is needed for a new circuit. In some
instances, proper working access (standing on a level surface) is not provided. Overall, the condition of the branch
panels is good, but their age means replacement circuit breakers will become increasingly difficult to acquire. It
would be very difficult and costly to relocate the panels, but it is possible to improve a poor situation by replacing
the interiors and panel covers to improve reliability and ease of access. There is a project waiting for funding which
replaces all the distribution equipment.
Generally lighting fixtures throughout the buildings are in good to fair condition and utilize T8 fluorescent lamps
and electronic ballasts. An exception to this is the lighting fixtures on fifth and sixth floors which have been updated
to LED fixtures.
Battery-operated emergency egress lighting fixtures occur sporadically throughout the building. Each one that was
tested worked, however, the quantity of the fixtures, fixture placement, and overall performance do not comply with
current standards. An exception to this is on sixth floor. All of sixth floor is code compliant.
The building is protected by an EST fire alarm system. It is a zoned system. The control panel is in a small room on
the north end of the first floor. A remote annunciator has been added at the fire fighter’s entrance on first floor. The
existing pull stations, smoke and heat detectors, strobes and horn/strobes were not updated at the time the new
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Electrical
fire panel was installed. Coverage with visual and audible/visual alarms is inconsistent – some areas are compliant,
some are not. Use of smoke and/or heat detectors is also inconsistent.
Various unsealed corridor wall penetrations were observed throughout the building. Most of these penetrations
appear to be due to distribution of fiber optic cabling or other communications cabling.
legend
Deficient – Critical Priority – High Priority – Fair –
Compliant/
D Immediate CP Replace HP Replace F Replace C Adequate N New N/A Not Applicable
Replacement in 1-2 years in 3-5 years in 6-10 years
budget
electrical systems grade notes comments
cost
electrical service
MSB switchboard is served from a pad
Utility service entrance C $1.5 Mil E1
mounted transformer.
normal power distribution equipment
Age lessens reliability of switches
See opening and closing; switches should
Main switchboard MSB F E1
notes be lubricated periodically. Plan for
eventual replacement.
See Replace obsolete panel interiors;
Branch panels F E1
notes replace panel covers.
emergency power distribution equipment
See 60 KW natural gas generator in fair
Generator F E1
notes condition.
See
Transfer switch HP E1, E2 225 Amp ATS in fair condition.
notes
Three small Square D load centers in
$18,000
Branch panel HP E1 fair condition with limited future
capacity. Mixed loads.
lighting
Throughout entire building
C E3 Consider upgrades to LED light fixtures.
excluding floors 5, and 6.
Exterior F $1000 E4 Replace HID with LED.
lighting controls
Conference or meeting rooms C Existing occupancy sensors
Offices C Existing occupancy sensors
Toilet rooms/ small storage rooms C Existing occupancy sensors
emergency egress lighting and exit signs
Add a second ATS and panelboards
Corridors, stairways, elevator See
HP E1, E2 dedicated to emergency egress
lobbies notes
lighting.
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Electrical
budget
electrical systems grade notes comments
cost
Add a second ATS and panelboards
See
Exit signs HP E1, E2 dedicated to emergency egress
notes
lighting.
fire alarm devices
Increase coverage of visual and audible
Upgrade/replace all devices. HP $500,000 E5
devices to be compliant.
Fire alarm and all low voltage
Seal penetrations CP $5000
penetrations.
tele-data system
Servers, racks, cabinets, cabling,
C Cat 6 cabling.
jacks, electronics
notes:
E1. A Service Upgrade and Emergency and Normal Power Distribution project (approximately $1.5 million) was
bid but never constructed.
E2. A second ATS and branch panels dedicated to emergency egress lighting is the better option long term
since the facility already has a standby generator. While unit equipment (battery operated emergency
lighting) is the least expensive first-dollars solution, it has ongoing maintenance material and labor costs
related to replacing batteries every 3 to 5 years.
E3. Continue to upgrade all light fixtures to LED when feasible. Approximately $150K per floor.
E4. Consideration should be given to replacing older exterior HID fixtures with new LED ones.
E5. At a minimum, consider adding additional visual and audible devices to be code compliant. Approximate
budget of $25K.
MSB main switchboard Main emergency panel
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Electrical
Panels in stairway Panels in stairwell to penthouse
Penthouse distribution Fire alarm panel
Fire alarm annunciator Card access system
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Electrical
Exit sign Battery light
Server room Lighting
Lighting Lighting
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Electrical
Kitchen receptacles Unsealed penetration
Exterior lighting
2022 Page 55
City of Green Bay
Green Bay, WI
Fire Station #1
Comm. No. 22CGB12.00
September 30, 2022
310 Pine St. Green Bay, WI 54301 | P:920-432-4865 | www.bernersschober.com
City of Green Bay
Fire Station #1
Facility Assessment
City of Green Bay | Green Bay, WI
Comm. No. 22CGB12.00
table of contents
summary ................................................................................................................................................................................................... 1
summary chart........................................................................................................................................................................................ 2
architectural ............................................................................................................................................................................................ 4
Building description ............................................................................................................................................................... 4
Building envelope ................................................................................................................................................................... 4
Interior conditions .................................................................................................................................................................. 4
Chart .......................................................................................................................................................................................... 5
Photos ........................................................................................................................................................................................ 6
code compliance and accessibility ................................................................................................................................................. 9
Building data ............................................................................................................................................................................. 9
Summary of code compliance/life safety.......................................................................................................................... 9
Summary of accessibility/ADA compliance...................................................................................................................... 9
Chart ............................................................................................................................................................................................ 10
Photos ......................................................................................................................................................................................... 11
structural ................................................................................................................................................................................................. 14
Summary ................................................................................................................................................................................... 14
Chart .......................................................................................................................................................................................... 14
Photos ........................................................................................................................................................................................ 15
plumbing ................................................................................................................................................................................................... 16
Summary .................................................................................................................................................................................... 16
Chart ............................................................................................................................................................................................ 16
Photos ......................................................................................................................................................................................... 18
mechanical ............................................................................................................................................................................................... 25
HVAC systems ......................................................................................................................................................................... 25
Summary .................................................................................................................................................................................... 25
Chart ............................................................................................................................................................................................ 26
Photos ......................................................................................................................................................................................... 30
electrical.................................................................................................................................................................................................... 34
Summary .................................................................................................................................................................................... 34
Chart............................................................................................................................................................................................ 34
photos ......................................................................................................................................................................................... 36
Fire Station 1
Fire Department
Summary
report description
An assessment of Fire Station 1 was conducted in 2015 by Berners Schober which reviewed the condition of the
building’s architectural, structural, mechanical, plumbing and electrical elements. This report, done in the summer
of 2022, is an update to the previous assessment. Each building was re-surveyed by trade and the reports
updated. Below are brief summaries of the changes to the building in the intervening 7 years.
architectural
Interior finishes were reviewed with an emphasis on those which were damaged or in poor condition.
Since the previous building assessment in 2015, the roof has been replaced. The current EPDM roof is in good
condition.
code/accessibility
The Wisconsin building code has been updated since the last assessment to referencing the 2015 International
Building Code (IBC). The 2015 IBC references the 2009 ICC A117.1 Accessible and Usable Buildings and Facilities
code. The 2010 ADA Standards remain in effect since the previous assessment. Major building elements, such as
the stair and elevator shafts, are unchanged.
Since the 2015 assessment there appear to have been no changes to accessible features. The assessment is
written with recommendations for future continued use.
structure
Modification to original notes to better explain structure. No significant changes to structure itself.
plumbing
No significant changes since the previous assessment.
fire protection
There has been no change to the fire protection system since the last assessment.
mechanical
The garage vehicle exhaust system has been replaced and repairs were made on the leaking condensate pump
since the previous assessment.
electrical
No major changes/updates to the electrical systems have been made since the last evaluation.
2022 Page 1
Fire Station #1
Summary of Priority Items
ITEM DEFICIENT (d) CRITICAL PRIORITY HIGH PRIORITY (hp) COST ESTIMATE
Immediate Replacement (cp) Replace in 3-5 years
Replace in 1-2 years
Architectural Site conditions -
Concrete aprons $15,000 - 20,000
Electrical panel and
code plumbing main in
same room. See Plumb report
code Accessible route $2,000-$3,000
Plumbing fixtures –
code
toilets and lavatories $3,000-$4,000
4” + 2” tile and joist
slab supported by
structural
load-bearing
masonry walls $6,000
plumbing Piping insulation $25,000
plumbing Code issues $8,000
Add pump/piping (code
plumbing
issue) $17,000
Add thermal mixing valve
plumbing
(TMV) (code issues) $10,000
HVAC Humidification $15,000
No ventilation in first
HVAC
floor office. $22,000
Occupied space
HVAC
thermal comfort $65,000
Occupied space
HVAC
thermal comfort $170,000
HVAC Men’s room exhaust $6,000
HVAC Women’s room exhaust $6,000
Kitchen hood, fan
HVAC
and ductwork $50,000
Rooms with chemicals
HVAC stored have no
ventilation. $22,000
Damaged & missing pipe
HVAC
insulation $17,000
Poor location and
HVAC
insulation $8,000
Mechanical room, poor
HVAC
ventilation $12,000
Steam unit heater
HVAC
and unit ventilator $28,000
HVAC Make-up air unit $56,000
HVAC Exhaust $133,000
HVAC Pneumatic control $17,000
2022 Page 2
bernersschober.com 920.432.4865
310 Pine Street | Green Bay, WI 54301
HVAC Toilet room exhaust $1,500
HVAC Storage room exhaust $1,500
HVAC Dryer exhaust $1,000
Elec panel in poor
electrical
condition-Bulldog $6,000
electrical ATS in fair condition $6,000
Load centers in fair
electrical condition-limited future
capacity. Mixed loads. $18,000
electrical GFCI receptacles needed $1,500
Add occupancy
electrical
sensors $4,000
Fire Station #1 Total $752,000 – $759,500
2022 Page 3
Fire Station #1
Fire Department
Architectural
architecture
building description
Fire Station #1 is a historic structure built in 1929 and constructed of brick with stone accent bands. The exterior
brick is in very good condition for a building of this age. There only a few areas where some tuck pointing could be
addressed to prevent further damage to the building. The area most in need of tuck pointing is the chimney on the
roof. There are large settlement cracks that should be addressed on the chimney.
A recent hazardous materials assessment by North Star Environmental Testing, LLC was provided as information
for this report.
building envelope
roof
Since the previous building assessment in 2015, the roof has been replaced. The current EPDM roof is in good
condition.
exterior walls
Brick and stone trim on all sides. The exterior walls appear to be in good condition with a few minor repair areas to
be addressed.
exterior windows and doors
None of the exterior doors are ADA compliant due to the exterior concrete stoop settlement. See Code section of
this report for additional information. The hollow metal doors are faded and could use a coat of paint. When doors
are painted, it would be recommended to replace the weatherstripping around the doors. Plywood transoms over
the doors are weather-damaged and should be replaced. Note that these panels were noted as Category II
non-friable in the Hazardous Materials Assessment provided to the City of Green Bay.
exterior site conditions
The driveway apron has significant cracking throughout.
interior conditions
floors
The recent hazardous materials report indicates the presence of Asbestos Containing Material (ACM) in some of
the vinyl tiles which have since been encapsulated under new carpeting on the second floor, specifically in the
Dayroom area. The breakroom, previously thought to have ACM, is not indicated as such in the report. Ceramic tile
and terrazzo floors are in generally good condition.
Items remaining from previous assessment include the following:
• Minor amount of adhesive on ceramic mosaic tile in west first floor storage rooms.
• Older carpets are worn but serviceable.
doors and frames
Some interior wood door frames have chipped paint. Most doors are in good condition. See Code section of report
for information on door hardware.
walls
Some spalling of brick and concrete at base of wall in garage. Glazed ceramic tiles are missing a multiple locations
of east stair shaft and men’s toilet room. A large settlement crack in the north side of the east stair shaft has re-
occurred. An area of plaster over the door frame to the truck bay has cracked off, exposing the metal drywall edge
bead. A circular hole in the wall at the chief’s office appears due to the location of a previous intercom system.
ceilings
There are several locations throughout the station where individual ceiling tiles are missing. Some areas at the
offices on second floor have water-stained ceiling tiles. The source of the leaks appears to have been addressed
by a roof replacement in recent years.
2022 Page 4
Fire Station #1
Fire Department
Architectural
miscellaneous
The insulation on the pipes in the first floor women’s room is not called out as ACM but looks to be friable and
exposed to the room interior.
legend
Deficient – Critical Priority – High Priority – Fair –
Compliant/
D Immediate CP Replace HP Replace F Replace C Adequate N New N/A Not Applicable
Replacement in 1-2 years in 3-5 years in 6-10 years
architectural elements grade budget cost notes comments
exterior elements
Roof condition C
Exterior facade condition F $5,000 A1
Exterior windows and doors F $4,500 A2
Site conditions HP $15K - $20K A3
interior conditions
Floors F A4
Doors and frames F A5
Ceilings F A6
Miscellaneous F A7
notes:
A1. Tuck-point as needed on few wall locations. Tuck-point and repair masonry at chimney.
A2. Replace plywood transom in-fill panels. Paint doors and frames. Replace weatherstripping.
A3. Concrete at driveways is cracked and spalling. Recommend replacement.
A4. Plan to continue carpet replacement of worn areas.
A5. Re-paint wood door frames.
A6. Recommend replacing missing ceiling tiles to help maintain conditioned space.
A7. Refer to plumbing section for notes on replacing pipe insulation at women’s room.
2022 Page 5
Fire Station #1
Fire Department
Architectural
Exterior brick in good condition Door not egressing to grade
Cracked driveway apron Cracked driveway apron
Roof in good condition Tuck pointing needed at chimney
2022 Page 6
Fire Station #1
Fire Department
Architectural
Transom faded and broken Tile with adhesive on it
Spalling brick due to moisture exposure Missing wall tile
Missing wall tile at plumbing wall Cracked/missing plaster over door
2022 Page 7
Fire Station #1
Fire Department
Architectural
Cracked plaster at stair Chipped paint at wood door frame
Missing and stained ceiling tile Patch hole in wall
Friable insulation on piping
2022 Page 8
Fire Station #1
Fire Department
Code & Accessibility
code compliance and accessibility
building data
code references based on 2015 IBC
4,955 SF floor plate
year(s) constructed Original building: 1929 gross area
10,356 total area
occupancy classification 1 floor is S-1 Moderate-hazard Storage, non-separated from B Business.
st
(chapter 3 of IBC) 2nd floor is B Business occupancy with R-3 residential as incidental use.
construction type 1929 building code commercial building construction is closest to IBC 2015
(chapter 6 IBC) Construction Type II-B
summary of code compliance/life safety
Summary of the building type and occupancy classification from the previous study is still applicable. In general,
any renovation to a space would need to meet current codes, as modified in the International Existing Building
Code.
egress and safety
One means of egress is available out of the storage rooms west of the apparatus bay, with a second route available
through the apparatus bay itself. The same is the case for the toilet room on the east side of the apparatus bay.
The lower-level mechanical space and mid-level storage areas both egress through the east stair to the exterior.
The plumbing main is located in the mid-level electrical room, as it was at the previous assessment. This is a code
issue which should be addressed. The second-floor egresses through the stair shaft to the east, and the exterior
steel stair and jump platform.
stairs, ramps and shafts
The stair is not in a rated shaft, but this condition is original to the building and thus presumed to have complied
with code at the time of construction. As noted in the previous study, the rooms opening off of this stair shaft would
not be allowed by current code, but even in a renovation would be allowed to remain because it is “technically
infeasible” to change the configuration.
handrails and guardrails
As noted in previous study, the large openings in the guards of the handrails do not comply with current code but
are allowed to remain. While the size of the openings may not be a safety hazard for adults, adding a second
handrail on the outer wall, where feasible, would increase safety during egress.
summary of accessibility/ADA compliance
ADA standards
The Americans with Disabilities Act places an additional level of requirements on public and commercial facilities in
terms of accessibility. Unlike a building code, it is a federal law which requires continual compliance, regardless of
when a building was built. Accessibility items noted in this report fall under this category and should thus be
addressed in a timely manner.
accessible route
None of the existing hinge doors are close enough to grade to meet accessibility requirements. Overhead doors
for vehicles are at grade but are not allowable as a legal means of egress or entry. As a historic building with no
elevator, there is no way to provide an accessible route to the main spaces of the building located on the second
floor. This report will address accessibility from the standpoint of people with mobility challenges, but not in
wheelchairs.
doors
There are a variety of doorknob styles in the building; knob (not accessible), lever, and push/pull. The door at first
floor from stair to apparatus bay is less than 32” wide at the stops, which does not meet current code or
2022 Page 9
Fire Station #1
Fire Department
Code & Accessibility
accessibility minimum requirements. The lockers in the women’s room interfere with clear floor space to use the
door to the room.
casework
Kitchen casework, while not technically accessible, meets the needs of those who can access it.
plumbing fixtures
There are no toilet or shower facilities in the building which comply with accessibility guidelines. Even for those
who are not in wheelchairs, there are modifications that could make use of the facilities easier and safer. See notes
in the chart below and in the plumbing section for specific suggestions.
The first-floor women’s room has multiple issues: the door clearance noted above, the lack of privacy at the toilet
stall and shower, lack of accessibility, unused urinal, and friable insulation at the radiator pipes. If the building is
slated for continued use, this room should be considered as an opportunity to reconfigure to provide a single-user
accessible toilet and shower room.
Lavatories are mounted at accessible height and provide clear floor space to access. Drinking fountain on second-
floor is at accessible standing height.
legend
Deficient – Critical Priority – High Priority –
Fair – Compliant/
Immediate Replace Replace New Not Applicable
D CP in 1-2 years HP in 3-5 years F Replace C Adequate N NA
Replacement
in 6-10 years
budget
architectural elements grade notes comments
cost
Code compliance / Life safety
Egress and safety C
Electrical panel at mid-level CP CA8 Cost is listed in Plumbing report.
Stairs, ramps and shafts F CA1
Handrails/guardrails F CA2
Accessibility / ADA compliance
$2,000-
Accessible route HP CA3
$3,000
CA4
Doors F
CA5
Casework C
Plumbing fixtures – toilets and $3000-
HP CA6
lavatories $4,000
Showers F CA7 See note: need to define scope of work.
notes:
CA1. Shaft not required to comply with current codes. No change needed at this time.
CA2. Recommend installation of handrail on outer wall of stair where it does not interfere with access to other
spaces.
2022 Page 10
Fire Station #1
Fire Department
Code & Accessibility
CA3. For the safety of all users, a new threshold and/or step is recommended to minimize the trip hazard at
exterior entry doors.
CA4. Lockers at the women’s room impeded on the clear floor space required at the door. The room and building
are not currently accessible, but if future modifications are done, consider alternate placement for better
functionality at the lockers and door access.
CA5. Recommend replacing knob hardware with lever hardware.
CA6. Note the recommendation in text above to reconfigure the women’s room to a single-user accessible room.
Recommend the following upgrades for safe usage:
• Remove the urinal in the Women’s room and utilize the corner area to create a single accessible toilet
stall with appropriate grab bars.
• Recommend updating faucet controls to lever handles on lavatories for easier/accessible use.
• Note that entry to the room is not currently accessible. Plumbing renovations should be considered in
conjunction with entry reconfiguration.
CA7. Showers are not accessible. These are listed as Fair because their function is not necessary for safe usage
of the building, and the rooms in which the showers are located are not currently accessible. If a renovation
is considered, the first floor Women’s room could be converted to a single-user, accessible toilet room and
shower. As a full design project, that cost is not estimated due to the need to define full scope of work.
CA8. The plumbing main is in the electrical room on the mid-level floor. This is a code violation. See Plumbing
section of this report for cost estimate.
Recommend 2nd handrail Egress door not at level of egress
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Fire Station #1
Fire Department
Code & Accessibility
Recommend threshold at entry Recommend lever door hardware
Remove unused fixture Potential area for accessible toilet
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Fire Station #1
Fire Department
Code & Accessibility
Recommend lever faucet handles
2022 Page 13
Fire Station #1
Fire Department
Structural
structural system
summary
The structure consists of cast-in-place concrete floor slabs bearing on steel girders or load-bearing masonry walls
and wood roof joists over steel girders or wood stud bearing walls.
legend
Deficient – Critical Priority – High Priority –
Fair – Compliant/
Immediate Replace Replace New Not Applicable
D CP in 1-2 years HP in 3-5 years F Replace C Adequate N NA
Replacement
in 6-10 years
budget
structural elements grade notes comments
cost
year 1929 (Berners Schober Comm. No. 1262)
structure type
Cast-in-place concrete foundation and/or
Foundations C basement walls bearing on individual spread or
continuous strip footings.
Basement - boiler
Floor is a 4” concrete slab on grade with 6x6 - 6/6
room/generator 4’ C S1
welded wire mesh reinforcing.
below first floor
Floor is a 6” concrete slab on grade with 6x6 -
First floor C
10/10 welded wire mesh reinforcing.
First floor (above 4” + 2” tile and joist slab supported by load-
CP $6,000 S2
boiler/generator room) bearing masonry walls.
Storage room 7’ above
C 2 x 8 wood joists 16” on center.
first floor
4” + 2” tile & joist slab supported on steel girders
Second floor C
and load-bearing masonry walls.
2x10 wood joists at 16” on center typical,
Roof C supported by steel girders or 2x4 wood stud
bearing walls.
An active Fire Station would be Risk Category IV,
building risk category NA however, the current office function of the
building would be considered Risk Category II.
Construction Type II-B (2-hour exterior bearing
construction type NA S3 walls, 1-hour beams, columns & floor slabs, 0-hour
roof)
vertical expandability NA None.
typical column
NA
spacing
overall structural The existing building is structurally sound with no
C
condition significant deficiencies noted.
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Fire Station #1
Fire Department
Structural
notes:
S1. There is a vertical crack in the east foundation wall of the room housing the generator. However, it does
not extend into the brick wall above and the owner is not aware of any water infiltration through the crack.
Therefore, no remedial action is recommended at this time.
S2. There are five concrete joists above the generator room that have exposed reinforcing bars. Although this
condition has been present since the original construction, reinforcing bars in joists require a minimum of
3/4" of concrete cover to maintain a 2-hour fire resistance for the slab assembly. Recommend application
of cementitious repair mortar to develop required cover to steel reinforcing.
S3. The 1985 publication “Fire Resistance Ratings” by Engineering and Safety Service (American Insurance
Services Group) would have credited the plastered 2x10 roof system with a 1-hour rating which would have
brought the current IBC Construction Type up to Type II-A.
Cracked foundation wall in generator room Exposed reinforcing in joists above generator
(Note S1) (Note S2)
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Fire Station #1
Fire Department
Plumbing
plumbing systems
summary
Fire Station #1 was constructed in approximately 1929. The original piping is in poor/fair condition, it has been
replaced as needed when issues arise. Insulation could be added to the hot water piping for energy savings. A
thermal mixing valve (TMV) and hot water recirculation pump with return piping should be added to the system.
These are code issues which need to be corrected. The location of the water main in/above the Electrical Closet is
another code issue that should be corrected.
Building is served by two 4” roof drains. EPDM roof has no secondary drainage or relief scuppers -Code issue.
Plumbing fixtures in the second floor men’s toilet room are older and could be updated to conserve water. The first
floor women’s toilet room was converted from a men’s and the urinal is still installed. Building utilities in general
appear adequate.
This building is not equipped with an automatic fire sprinkler system. In order to add a wet sprinkler system to the
building, the water main size would need to be increased from the current 2”. The exhaust hood in the kitchen (for
gas range) should have a NOVEC 1230 (or equal) kitchen suppression system installed.
legend
Deficient – Critical Priority – High Priority – Fair –
Compliant/
D Immediate CP Replace HP Replace F Replace C Adequate N New N/A Not Applicable
Replacement in 1-2 years in 3-5 years in 6-10 years
budget
plumbing systems grade notes comments
cost
Water piping condition F P1 Copper piping
Sanitary piping condition F P2 PVC & cast iron
Storm/clearwater piping F P3 Cast iron
Valves F P4 Gate & ball
Domestic water service C P5 2” main
Insulation HP $25,000 P6 Add insulation
Code issues D $8,000 P7 Relocate water main
equipment
Domestic water heater F P8 Gas-fired
Drench shower station NA
Recirculation pump(s) D $17,000 P9 Add pump/piping (code issue)
Water softener NA No water softener installed
Thermal mixing valve (TMV) D $10,000 P10 Add TMV (code issue)
Grease interceptor NA Grease interceptor not required.
Kitchen equipment F P11
Plumbing fixtures F P12
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Fire Station #1
Fire Department
Plumbing
budget
plumbing systems grade notes comments
cost
Oxygen storage NA
Backflow prevention C P13 1 ½” hose connection
“Shop” air compressor NA HVAC pneumatics only
Laundry equipment F P14
Drain tile sump/pump NA
Ambulance/truck garage F P15 Trench drain, garage catch basin
exterior
Storm drainage, roof drains F P16 Discharge to street
Lawn irrigation NA
Utilities F P17
notes:
P1. Water piping is mainly copper, soldered joints. Fair condition. There is some original galvanized pipe in the
boiler room. Kitchen sink on second floor has PEX water piping installed. Majority of the water piping in the
boiler room is not insulated.
P2. Original sanitary is cast iron. Some newer PVC piping in the boiler room and garage. Vent piping on the
second floor was replaced to cast iron no-hub connection. A 4” vent on the roof is cracked. One Studor
vent in the garage vents the trench drain(s).
P3. Storm piping is cast iron hub & spigot. Piping is not insulated. Noise issue on the 2nd floor office area due to
lack of insulation on the piping.
P4. Older valves are gate, newer valves are ball.
P5. Building is served by a 2” water main. 2” water meter with 3-valved by-pass in the boiler room.
P6. Minimal water and none of the storm piping is insulated. Insulation should be added for energy savings
(IECC) and to control noise issues.
P7. Code issues: water temperature is set at 119° Fahrenheit, the maximum temperature allowed is 110-115
degrees Fahrenheit. No thermostatic mixing valve (TMV) at the heater. Add TMV per code. No recirculating
pump at heater. Add recirculating pump. Hot water piping length exceeds 100’-0” per code. Water main is
installed in the electrical closet and needs to be relocated. (reference notes P9 and P10 also.)
P8. Water heater is gas fired, atmospheric direct vent to chimney, AO Smith ProMax. Model FCG 75 300, 75-
gallon, 75,000 BTU. Hot/cold water connection at the heater is 1”. Piping is not insulated.
P9. Install a hot water recirculation (HWR) pump and HWR piping. Length of hot water piping exceeds 100’-0”
allowed per code. Hot water run time to second floor kitchen sink exceeds 1 minute. Building would need
to comply with the IECC code for recirculation within 2’-0” of the fixture.
P10. Add TMV at the water heater. Set hot water temperature to 110° Fahrenheit max. Above 115 degrees F is a
code issue.
P11. Kitchen equipment: Two compartment stainless steel sink, single lever faucet, with garbage disposal. No
dishwasher in the kitchen. Gas range should have a fire suppression system installed in the hood.
P12. Plumbing fixtures: there are no ADA compliant fixtures in the building.
2022 Page 17
Fire Station #1
Fire Department
Plumbing
First floor unisex toilet room has a floor drain and a tank-type WC with 15” rim above finished floor (aff).
Lavatory, outside the room, is wall-hung with rim at 29” aff.
Women’s toilet room on first floor is a converted men’s toilet room. Floor mounted urinal is still installed but
not functioning and should be removed. WC is floor mounted, 16” rim aff. 3.5 gpf valve. Lavatory is wall-
hung, 30” rim aff. Mustee modular fiberglass shower unit with Moen shower valve. Room also has a
janitors’ sink. Toilet room has “multi-functional” use.
The second floor Men’s toilet room has floor mounted WC’s at 16” rim aff., 3.5 gpf valve. Lavatories are
wall-hung, rim at 30-1/2” rim aff. Urinal is floor mounted with Sloan Royal flush valve. Shower is a built-up
tile room with two Delta shower valves. Shower room only has one floor drain which is not allowed, as each
shower is required to have a separate drain. Piping has “hammering” and should have water hammer
arrestors installed.
There is an older version EWC in the meeting room, rim at 37” aff. Also, a new version water bottle cooler
in the dining room area is being used in lieu of the older EWC. Plumbing fixtures could be replaced with
low flow and water conserving units. There are no exterior non-freeze water sill faucets on the building.
Garage has a residential washer and dryer set-up with an adjacent laundry/janitors sink and service faucet.
P13. There is a Watts 009 RPZ backflow in the boiler room for the HVAC boiler. 1 ½” hose fill connection in the
garage has an elevated atmospheric vacuum breaker installed. Faucets with hose connection ends have a
threaded hose end vacuum breaker installed. All backflow prevention is compliant.
P14. Residential washer (and dryer), laundry/janitors sink are installed in the garage area.
P15. Garage: trench drains which discharge to a garage catch basin. Trench drain is vented by a studor vent
instead of a “typical” vent through the roof.
P16. There are two 4” roof drains (east and west side of roof) which discharge separately to the street. Drains
are in fair condition but have some issues with tree debris clogging the drains. There is no secondary roof
drainage. Parapet relief drains should be added for secondary drainage. (Secondary drainage is now a
code requirement but was probably not required in 1926 when the building was erected). Storm piping
through the building is not insulated.
P17. Building is served from a 2” water main. The main routes from South Adams Street. Sanitary sewer is 6”.
Main routes north to Chicago Street, exits the lower boiler room at 20” aff., gravity discharge. Two 4” storm
sewers route to South Washington and South Adams Streets. Parking lot/drives are pitched and discharge
to the adjacent streets – no internal drainage or catch basin(s). Technically draining parking space over a
public sidewalk is not allowed.
Service faucet - garage Sanitary piping – boiler room
2022 Page 18
Fire Station #1
Fire Department
Plumbing
Sanitary/water piping – boiler room PEX piping to kitchen sink
Water piping thru electrical closet Water service, water meter with by-pass
Storm piping, sanitary vent Water heater – gas fired
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Fire Station #1
Fire Department
Plumbing
Water heater vent piping Hot/cold water piping at water heater
Studor vent - garage Fill connection(s) in garage
Water closet - unisex Lavatory – outside unisex toilet room
2022 Page 20
Fire Station #1
Fire Department
Plumbing
Sink, lavatory, urinal – women’s Water closet -women’s
Shower – women’s Electric water cooler- meeting room
Kitchen double sink Kitchen sink – garbage disposal
2022 Page 21
Fire Station #1
Fire Department
Plumbing
Water closet – men’s Urinal & lavatory – men’s
Lavatory sink – men’s Shower room– men’s
Men’s shower room floor drain Washer/dryer in garage bay
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Fire Station #1
Fire Department
Plumbing
Sanitary vent & roof drain Sanitary vent & roof drain
Fill lines backflow preventer Garage catch basin
Garage trench drain Parking lot drive
2022 Page 23
Fire Station #1
Fire Department
Plumbing
Parking Lot Fire hydrant @ S. Washington Street
2022 Page 24
Fire Station #1
Fire Department
HVAC Systems
HVAC systems
summary
The building was originally constructed in 1929. Multiple renovation and mechanical upgrade projects have taken
place over the last 90 years. The upper level was renovated in 2012 to transition the living quarters into
administrative office area.
The second-floor office area is served by a 2007 packaged roof top air unit with gas fired heat. The air unit system
provides either heated or cooled air to the living quarters and utilizes zone dampers to regulate air flow and
provide a measure of individual room temperature control. Steam radiation units equipped with Danfoss valves for
temperature control are located around the building perimeter. The manual control of the steam radiation units
combined with automated zone damper control and varying occupancies and envelope orientations is creating
some undesirable air unit zone temperature fluctuations, causing thermal discomfort. During the last remodeling
project, partition walls were constructed, sub-dividing the thermal zones. The zone thermostats and ventilation
diffusers were not modified sufficiently thereby exacerbating the thermal discomfort issues.
Toilet/shower rooms are ventilated by ceiling mounted fans. These fans are timer or light switch operated. Some
storage rooms and closets that store paint and cleaning chemicals are not ventilated.
An electric heater has been utilized in in the women’s toilet/shower to supplement the steam radiator unit. It is
unknown if it is still utilized, but there have been no upgrades to the rooms heating system since the last
evaluation.
The kitchen ventilation hood is served by a roof mounted exhaust fan. The hood appears to be and older type 1.
The ductwork is constructed of galvanized sheet metal. A cook-top stove is located beneath the hood.
A low-pressure steam boiler, installed in 2007, is located in the lower-level mechanical room. Steam is distributed
to the office area and the apparatus room heating units.
The air unit and zone VAV controls are low voltage. Apparatus room ventilators utilize pneumatic controls. The air
compressor is located in the lower-level mechanical room.
The apparatus room ventilation system was replaced in 1987 and consists of a make-up air unit, unit heater, and
exhaust fan. The make-up air unit outside air duct is capped off. The make-up air unit and exhaust fan serving this
room are not believed to be operational. The make-up air and exhaust fan were originally designed to operate via a
60-minute timer switch. A unit ventilator is located over the old machine shop area (now storage). A vehicle exhaust
system (previously PlymoVent) was replaced after the last evaluation and is connected to each vehicle and utilized
to capture and expel exhaust fumes as trucks leave the building. Additional vehicles and powered equipment are
also stored in the garage.
Through-the-wall air conditioning units are still utilized as a recently (2001) designed/bid ductless split project has
not been constructed. Ceiling exhaust fans are located in the storage room and an abandoned toilet room off the
west side of the apparatus rooms. These fans are timer switch operated.
2022 Page 25
Fire Station #1
Fire Department
HVAC Systems
legend
Deficient – Critical Priority – High Priority – Fair –
Compliant/
D Immediate CP Replace HP Replace F Replace C Adequate N New N/A Not Applicable
Replacement in 1-2 years in 3-5 years in 6-10 years
budget
HVAC systems grade notes comments
cost
Installed 2007.
air unit H1 Trane roof top packaged YSC series, 10-
ton cooling with gas heat.
Housing F
Air intake C
Condenser fins F
Fan F 4000 CFM, 3 HP
Filters C 30% filters
Controls F Low voltage, zone dampers.
Installed 2007. Not revised during last
Ductwork C H3 remodeling project. Rain cap over
exterior ductwork.
Insulation C Duct liner in exterior ductwork.
Residential type unit. Manually filled.
Humidity HP $15,000 H1
Humidification is not a code requirement.
Occupied space ventilation (Office) D $22,000 H2 No ventilation in first floor office.
Air unit zone thermostat and manual
CP $65,000 radiation control conflict. Air unit
Occupied space thermal comfort H3 discharge temperature is affected. Zones
HP $170,000 are not split to serve rooms modified in
last project.
exhaust fans
Ceiling mounted fan. Timer switch
Men’s room exhaust D $6,000 H4
operated.
Ceiling mounted fan. Light switch
Women’s room exhaust D $6,000 H4
operated.
Ductwork C
Type 1 hood. Roof mounted fan
Kitchen hood, fan and ductwork HP $50,000 H5 discharges below 40” above the roof
line. Galvanized ductwork.
Rooms with chemicals stored within them
Building exhaust ventilation D $22,000 H6
have no ventilation.
boiler system C H7 Installed 2007
Weil McLain, 787 MBH input, 634 MBH
Boilers C
output low pressure steam
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Fire Station #1
Fire Department
HVAC Systems
budget
HVAC systems grade notes comments
cost
Pumps C H7 1/3 HP Simplex Condensate pump.
Piping C Mostly original throughout building.
Most of the piping is bare and
uninsulated throughout the boiler room
Pipe insulation D $17,000 H8
and apparatus room. Damaged insulation
in multiple exposed locations.
Radiators and fin tube with Danfoss
Room terminal units CP $8,000 H9
Valves.
Damper for boiler combustion. No intake
Mechanical room ventilation D $12,000 H10 for generator combustion air. Gas meter
regulator vent close to intake louver.
controls
Serves boiler room and apparatus room
Air compressor C H11
equipment.
Garage ventilation H12
Heaters HP $28,000 H12 Steam unit heater and unit ventilator.
Outside air cut off. 1300 CFM, ½ HP
Make-up air unit D $56,000 H12
motor.
Exhaust D $133,000 H12 1500 CFM, ½ HP fan motor
Truck exhaust C Replaced in last couple years
Pneumatic control. 60-minute timer
Control D $17,000 H12
switch.
Ceiling mounted fan. Timer switch
Toilet room exhaust HP $1,500 H13 operated. 50 CFM. Installed 1983.
Room appears abandoned.
Ceiling mounted fan. Timer switch
Storage room exhaust HP $1,500 H13
operated. 100 CFM. Installed 1983
Dryer exhaust D $1,000 H14 Terminates inside.
notes:
H1. The air unit is 15 years old. Expected useful life is about 20 years. The air unit is a multi-zone system
utilizing zone dampers to regulate individual room air flow. The unit has a master zone terminal to set the
unit to heating or cooling mode. The zone dampers will adjust air flow to maintain space temperature
based on a rooms heating or cooling requirements. When installed, this system was an economical way to
provide some measure of individual room temperature control. In addition to the zone VAV units, perimeter
rooms utilize fin tube or radiators for additional heat. When both systems are operational, the zone damper
control can conflict with the radiation control and this causes variations in the air unit discharge
temperature which will then affect heating and cooling throughout the office area. Control upgrades
through the air unit manufacturer are available to improve the terminal operation and simultaneously
control the space fin tube radiation.
In the past portable residential style humidifiers have been utilized to provide spot humidification for
specific occupants. Humidification is not required but does improve occupant comfort. As the use of the
building has changed over the years, humidification may no longer be desired. However, in buildings
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Fire Station #1
Fire Department
HVAC Systems
where occupants spend extended periods of time, or sleep, it is often utilized to improve occupant comfort.
Portable units will improve humidity only slightly but may have a greater psychological effect for the
occupants. This is because the air unit will introduce a greater amount of dry, outside air than the portable
units can properly humidify. To humidify this building, it is recommended to install an electric or gas fired
humidifier that is sized to serve the entire office space. A high priority grade has been given to this item for
budgeting purposes if there remains a desire to provide humidification and improve occupant satisfaction.
H2. A first-floor office uses a radiator for heat and a through wall air conditioner for cooling. There is no outside
air ventilation for this room. Recommend extending the ductwork from the air unit system to this room to
provide ventilation and to positively pressurize the room in relation to the apparatus room. A project to
provide supplemental cooling upstairs and ventilation/cooling in this room via ductless split systems has
been designed but has not been constructed as the costs were higher than anticipated.
H3. During the last remodeling project, partition walls were constructed, sub-dividing the thermal zones. The
zone thermostats and ventilation diffusers did not get modified sufficiently thereby exacerbating the
thermal discomfort issues. To increase room comfort, it is recommended to install individual room reheat
coils controlled in parallel with the room radiation devices through a single zone thermostat.
Two estimates are indicated in the spreadsheet above. The first estimate is for revisions to the ductwork,
dampers and thermostats to accommodate the previous office revisions and improve ventilation and
thermal comfort with the system available. Along with the H2 item it will also fund ductless split systems in
the conference room. The second estimate is an increase to the first, to replace the zone dampers and
manual radiation valves with VAV heating terminal units and automatic radiation valves to provide true
individual room comfort control. A second less expensive option is to only replace the manual valves with
automatic control valves.
H4. The men’s toilet fan is ventilated with timer switch operated ceiling fan. The Women’s toilet fan is
interlocked with the rooms light switch. The type of fan and physical size indicate that they do not provide
enough ventilation to properly exhaust the room. In addition, the number of toilet fixtures and showers
require that the ventilation be continuous when the building is occupied. Replacement of the fans and
interlocking them with the air unit operation is recommended.
H5. For stove top appliances, where grease vapors may be exhausted, a type 1 hood is required. This hood has
a flat filter which is not allowed in new hoods as grease can drip into the food being prepared. The
ductwork is galvanized and not sealed liquid tight. In addition the exhaust fan does not discharge the code
required distance above the roof. The building occupancy has changed slightly and indications are that the
stove and exhaust system are rarely utilized, unlike the other 6 fire stations. A new type 1 hood equipped
with a fire suppression system and vented with approved liquid tight ductwork is recommended if this
stove continues to be utilized for cooking food that produces grease vapors.
H6. Inadequate exhaust in some toilet/locker spaces and there is no exhaust in the janitors room and storage
rooms where chemical/cleaning supplies are stored. Fans where installed, are operated via timer or light
switches. An exhaust system improvement project is recommended to improve building ventilation.
H7. The boiler system was replaced in 2007. The boiler is a low-pressure steam boiler. The boiler was
inspected in 2020. A condensate pump is located behind the boiler. During the last evaluation walk-
through the pump was leaking and spare seals were purchased. The pump appears to have been repaired.
H8. There is very little pipe insulation installed on the building steam and condensate piping. Insulation was
visible in some occupied areas and storage areas. Uninsulated piping is visible in the mechanical rooms
and apparatus room, where the majority of the building piping is located. The bare piping radiates
uncontrolled heat which will affect thermal comfort.
H9. The fin tube and radiator units are controlled with Danfoss valves. Some of the radiator units are covered
with sheet metal covers to prevent physical contact. The unit in the women’s toilet is positioned poorly, the
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Fire Station #1
Fire Department
HVAC Systems
insulation is falling apart, and the past electric heater use suggests it is inadequate to maintain the space
temperature.
H10. The mechanical room ventilation consists of an outside air louver covered with a damper. The ventilation
damper opens when the boiler is firing. The louver is otherwise closed. There is no make-up air for the
water heater combustion. This damper should remain partly open, even in the closed position to
accommodate the water heat combustion needs. A generator is located outside of the mechanical room. If
the fire door to the boiler room was shut, the generator combustion air would be shut-off. The intake louver
is too close to the gas meter and its regulator. A project to provide combustion ventilation for the generator
and pipe the gas regulator away from the intake louver is recommended.
H11. A small Simplex fractional horsepower air compressor serves the building pneumatic control system. The
building pneumatic controllers consist mainly of a few control valves on apparatus room equipment. The
remainder of the control system (air unit, room terminal units, and boiler) is low voltage electric (DDC)
controls. It is recommended that building improvement projects include the replacement of the pneumatic
controls with low voltage devices. This will allow the removal of the air compressor.
H12. A steam unit heater and unit ventilator provide heat to the apparatus room. A make-up air unit and exhaust
fan was installed in 1987. These units were originally operated by a manually operated timer switch. The
building occupants indicated they believe these units to be abandoned. The exhaust duct has been cut
back to a height of 8 feet (originally terminated at 18” above the floor). The exhaust should be extended to
near the floor for best contaminant removal. The make-up air unit outside air intake has been capped off.
A vehicle exhaust system is connected to each truck parked in the garage. This system operates whenever
a truck is started and the vehicle exhaust is expelled from the garage. The fan is mounted on the roof with
an extended stack head.
An enclosed garage has specific exhaust code requirements, and the garage is required to have a
negative pressure in relation to the living/occupied quarters. A garage exhaust system may operate
continuously, operating at a minimum level when the garage is unoccupied and operating at a maximum
level when the garage is occupied or a vehicle is started. Alternately a garage exhaust system may operate
intermittently if it meets 4 specific code provisions including the installation of a gas detection system. The
vehicle exhaust system alone does not meet the ventilation requirements for an enclosed garage.
Although the system mitigates/minimizes vehicle emissions into the space, the building codes have not
allowed for the use of a vehicle exhaust system as an exception to the garage ventilation requirements. A
garage exhaust fan upgrade project to install new make-up fan, exhaust fan, ductwork, and control systems
is necessary to improve garage ventilation and occupant safety.
H13. A laundry dryer is located in the apparatus garage. The dryer terminates inside the room. This termination
allows warm, moist air to be vented directly into the garage. This vent should be terminated outside.
2022 Page 29
Fire Station #1
Fire Department
HVAC Systems
Roof top air unit Roof exhaust hood
Ceiling mount fan (typical) Kitchen exhaust fan
Kitchen hood (inside view) Boiler
2022 Page 30
Fire Station #1
Fire Department
HVAC Systems
Condensate pump Radiation unit (typical)
Uninsulated pipe (typical) Poor insulation condition
Wall built over valve Radiator at women’s toilet
2022 Page 31
Fire Station #1
Fire Department
HVAC Systems
Supply grille (typical) Destratification fan
Temperature control air compressor Typical thermostat (This one too close to fridge)
Exhaust fan manual switch (typical) Dryer vent (indoors)
2022 Page 32
Fire Station #1
Fire Department
HVAC Systems
Unit ventilator (steam) Through wall air conditioner
Gas meter (intake louver out of frame) Steam unit heater (bare piping)
Make-up air unit Vehicle exhaust fan
2022 Page 33
Fire Station #1
Fire Department
Electrical
electrical systems
summary
The building is served by two utility services, a 200 Amp and a 100 Amp, 120/208 Volt, three phase. The panels are
in fair condition but have limited future capacity. The water main over the panels is a code violation. The
emergency generator serving the building is in fair condition. The emergency system is fed from a single transfer
switch which feeds three separate small emergency panels. The panels are in fair condition but have limited future
capacity. An additional transfer switch and panel board is recommended to separate the critical and equipment
loads from the life safety loads.
The outlets within the garage are not GFCI protected. Lighting fixtures are in good to fair condition and utilize T8
lamps and ballasts and compact fluorescent lamps. There are occupancy sensors located in the toilet rooms and in
the conference room, but the facility should install occupancy sensors in offices, storage rooms and janitor’s
closets. Decorative compact fluorescent building mounted fixtures are in good condition; consideration should be
given to replacing with more efficient and lower maintenance LED fixtures in the future.
The server equipment is in good condition and the facility is pulling Cat 5 data and voice cabling and coax for
CATV. The fire alarm system includes stand-alone smoke detectors and carbon monoxide detectors throughout the
building, which are in good condition.
legend
Deficient – Critical Priority – High Priority – Fair –
Compliant/
D Immediate CP Replace HP Replace F Replace C Adequate N New N/A Not Applicable
Replacement in 1-2 years in 3-5 years in 6-10 years
budget
electrical systems grade notes comments
cost
electrical service
Two overhead utility services, one 200
Amp, one 100 Amp enter the building
Utility service entrance C on the north side into the 2nd floor
electrical closet. Water main over
panels is a code violation.
normal power distribution equipment
200A Bulldog Electric disconnect in fair
Main disconnect(s) F
condition. MCB in fair condition.
Two panels on 2nd floor, two panels on
1st floor. Bulldog Electric panel on 2nd
Branch panels HP $6000 E1
floor in poor condition, Square D load
centers in good condition.
emergency power distribution equipment
10 KW Kohler natural gas generator in
Generator F
fair condition.
Transfer switch HP $6,000 E2 Kohler 50 Amp ATS in fair condition.
50A/2P Square D disconnect on
Disconnect switch C incoming generator feed to the ATS in
the boiler room in good condition.
Three small Square D load centers in
$18,000
Branch panel HP E2 fair condition with limited future
capacity. Mixed loads.
2022 Page 34
Fire Station #1
Fire Department
Electrical
budget
electrical systems grade notes comments
cost
Garage outlets need to be GFCI.
Receptacles D $1500 E3 Outlets within 6’ of sinks need to be
GFCI.
lighting
Industrial fixtures with T-8 lamps in
Garage C E4
good condition.
Office spaces, conference rooms, Recessed acrylic lens troffers with
F $2,000 E4
and corridors T-8 lamps in good to fair condition.
Recessed acrylic lens troffers in good
Sleep rooms and toilet rooms C E4
condition.
Ceramic lamp holders with screw-in
Mechanical spaces, storage rooms, compact fluorescent lamps, surface
F $3,000 E4
utility areas mounted wraps and industrial strips
with T-8 lamps, in fair condition.
Decorative wall mounted fixtures are in
Exterior F $6,000 E4 fair condition. Fixtures are utilizing
screw-in compact fluorescent lamps.
lighting controls
Conference or meeting rooms C E5 Existing occupancy sensors
Offices HP $4,000 E5 Add occupancy sensors.
Toilet rooms have occupancy sensors
Toilet rooms/ small storage rooms F $1000 E5 in good condition; add sensors in
janitor and storage rooms.
emergency egress lighting and exit signs
Fixtures connected to emergency
Corridors C
panel.
Exit signs C LED in good condition.
fire alarm devices
Stand-alone smoke and carbon
Smoke detectors C monoxide detectors throughout the
building.
tele-data system
Racks, cabinets, cabling and jacks C Cat 5 cabling.
notes:
E1. Consideration should be given to replacing the existing Bulldog Electric panel (that is in poor condition and
will have limited parts available) with a new panel.
E2. Recommend providing an additional automatic transfer switch and panel board to separate the critical and
equipment branch loads from the life safety loads. The existing panels have several circuits listed as
“unknown”. These circuits should be traced and identified to get a better idea of available capacity.
2022 Page 35
Fire Station #1
Fire Department
Electrical
E3. Replace all outlets located in the garage area with GFCI type device. Replace existing kitchen outlets with
GFCI type device unless they are currently protected from the adjacent GFCI outlet. If this is the case, the
outlet should be labeled per NEC requirements.
E4. Consideration should be given to replacing older non-LED fixtures with new LED ones.
E5. Occupancy sensors should be installed in the offices, storage rooms, and janitor’s closets to provide
additional energy savings. If areas are renovated, controls will be required to be updated to meet current
energy code.
Electrical utility service entrance Electrical utility service entrance
200A service meter and disconnect 100A service meter and disconnect
2022 Page 36
Fire Station #1
Fire Department
Electrical
10kw generator 50A transfer switch
Emergency panel #3 Emergency panel #1
Emergency panel #2 Existing panel
2022 Page 37
Fire Station #1
Fire Department
Electrical
Existing panel Existing panel
Exterior receptacle Garage receptacles
Kitchen receptacles Office lighting
2022 Page 38
Fire Station #1
Fire Department
Electrical
Stand-alone smoke & carbon monoxide detectors Exterior fixture
Garage lighting Exit sign
2022 Page 39
City of Green Bay
Green Bay, WI
Municipal Court
Comm. No. 22CGB12.00
September 30, 2022
310 Pine St. Green Bay, WI 54301 | P:920-432-4865 | www.bernersschober.com
City Of Green Bay
Municipal Court
Facility Assessment
City of Green Bay | Green Bay, WI
Comm. No. 22CGB12.00
table of contents
summary ................................................................................................................................................................................................... 1
summary chart........................................................................................................................................................................................ 2
architectural ........................................................................................................................................................................................... 3
Building description ............................................................................................................................................................... 3
Building envelope ................................................................................................................................................................... 3
Interior conditions .................................................................................................................................................................. 3
Chart .......................................................................................................................................................................................... 4
Photos ........................................................................................................................................................................................ 5
code compliance and accessibility ................................................................................................................................................. 8
Building data ............................................................................................................................................................................. 8
Summary of code compliance/life safety.......................................................................................................................... 8
Summary of accessibility/ADA compliance...................................................................................................................... 8
Chart ............................................................................................................................................................................................ 9
Photos ......................................................................................................................................................................................... 10
structural ................................................................................................................................................................................................. 12
Summary ................................................................................................................................................................................... 12
Chart .......................................................................................................................................................................................... 12
Photos ........................................................................................................................................................................................ 13
plumbing ................................................................................................................................................................................................... 14
Summary .................................................................................................................................................................................... 14
Chart ............................................................................................................................................................................................ 14
Photos ......................................................................................................................................................................................... 16
fire protection ......................................................................................................................................................................................... 23
Summary .................................................................................................................................................................................... 23
Chart ............................................................................................................................................................................................ 23
Photos ......................................................................................................................................................................................... 24
mechanical ............................................................................................................................................................................................... 27
HVAC systems ......................................................................................................................................................................... 27
Summary .................................................................................................................................................................................... 27
Chart ............................................................................................................................................................................................ 27
Photos ......................................................................................................................................................................................... 29
electrical.................................................................................................................................................................................................... 34
Summary .................................................................................................................................................................................... 34
Chart............................................................................................................................................................................................ 34
photos ......................................................................................................................................................................................... 36
Municipal Court
Police Department
Summary
report description
An assessment of the Municipal Court was conducted in 2015 by Berners Schober which reviewed the condition of
the building’s architectural, structural, mechanical, plumbing and electrical elements. This report, done in the
summer of 2022, is an update to the previous assessment. Each building was re-surveyed by trade and the reports
updated. Below are brief summaries of the changes to the building in the intervening 7 years.
architectural
The roof was replaced since the previous assessment. Minor damage to fascia panels occurred in the winter of
2021/22.
Interior finishes have experienced additional wear. The code issues at the front stair have been corrected.
code/accessibility
The Wisconsin building code has been updated since the last assessment to referencing the 2015 International
Building Code (IBC). The 2015 IBC references the 2009 ICC A117.1 Accessible and Usable Buildings and Facilities
code. The 2010 ADA Standards remain in effect since the previous assessment. Major building elements, such as
the stair and elevator shafts, are unchanged.
Since the 2015 assessment there have been no changes to accessible features.
structure
Structural elements have exhibited little change since the previous assessment.
plumbing
No changes since previous assessment.
fire protection
There has been no change to the fire protection system since the last assessment.
mechanical
The hot water boilers and pump were replaced since the last evaluation and a few supply duct terminations were
modified in the basement occupied areas.
electrical
No major changes or updates were done to the facility since the last assessment.
2022 Page 1
Municipal Court
Summary of Priority Items
ITEM DEFICIENT (d) CRITICAL PRIORITY HIGH PRIORITY (hp) COST ESTIMATE
Immediate (cp) Replace in 3-5 years
Replacement Replace in 1-2 years
Municipal Court
architectural Expansion joint $2,000
code Plumbing fixtures $400
code Ramp and handrails $1,500
plumbing Insulation $5,000
plumbing Code issues $2,000
plumbing Add TMV (code issue) $6,000
HVAC Air unit housing $250,000
HVAC Air unit coils $incl
HVAC Air unit fan $ incl
HVAC Air unit filters $ incl
HVAC Air unit controls $ incl
HVAC Air unit ductwork $40,000
HVAC Air unit insulation $4,000
Occupied space
HVAC
thermal comfort $28,000
HVAC Exhaust ductwork $16,000
HVAC Pipe insulation $7,000
Elevator machinery
HVAC
room ventilation $13,000
Add additional
electrical
Emergency lights $5,000
Install additional
electrical
horns & horn/strobes $10,000
Smoke detector at
electrical
elevator-per code $1,000
Install shunt-trip control
electrical
at elevator power $8,000
Municipal Court Total $398,000
2022 Page 2
Municipal Court
Police Department
Architectural
architecture
The building was constructed in 1967 of masonry cavity walls with aluminum fascia panels. The overall building is in
good condition.
building envelope
roof
The roof was replaced since the previous assessment and is in good condition.
exterior walls
Brick wall are in generally good condition. Sealant at expansion joints is beginning to show signs of cracking.
The fascia panels at the southwest corner of the building are out of alignment with the rest of the fascia.
Building maintenance personnel report that this area was hit last winter by a payloader plowing snow. The structure
itself was not damaged.
exterior windows and doors
The composite panel portion of the windows has faded but is in otherwise serviceable condition.
interior conditions
floors
Basement carpet is stained and has ripped areas at seams. Mosaic tile in basement toilet rooms is in good
condition. Vinyl composite tile at back exit door has two tiles missing and has some staining. Vinyl stair treads and
risers are worn but serviceable.
First floor carpet at open office has bubbled in some areas and is showing wear. Carpet in courtroom is in good
condition. Toilet rooms and main lobby floors were replaced in the 2000 upgrade and are in good condition.
walls
Walls are in generally good condition. Glazed tiles in basement toilet rooms have holes from previously mounted
equipment.
ceilings
There are some stained and misplaced ceiling tiles above the front stair shaft. The basement has a mix of tile styles.
Some, primarily in workout rooms, have bowed or mis-placed tiles. Air vents in basement toilet room are rusted.
A ceiling tile in the back stair is missing, reportedly from wind entering the building during winter use of the back
door.
doors and frames
Metal door frames in basement have chipped paint.
equipment and casework
Toilet partitions in basement are rusting at the lower edges. Most casework is in good condition. The wood trim
along the patron side of the reception desk has worn finish off the edges.
2022 Page 3
Municipal Court
Police Department
Architectural
legend
Deficient – Critical Priority – High Priority – Fair –
Compliant/
D Immediate CP Replace HP Replace F Replace C Adequate N New N/A Not Applicable
Replacement in 1-2 years in 3-5 years in 6-10 years
architectural elements grade budget cost notes comments
exterior elements
Roof condition N
Expansion joint HP $2,000 A1
Metal fascia panels F $1,000 A2
Metal spandrel panels F A3
interior conditions
Floors F A4
Doors and frames C A5
Casework C A6
Partitions F A7
Ceilings F A8
notes:
A1. Replace dried or cracked sealant at expansion joints.
A2. Replace or repair loose aluminum fascia panels at southwest corner of building.
A3. Plan for future replacement of metal spandrel panels at windows.
A4. Replace missing vinyl composite tiles in back stair. Repair ripped carpet at Cardio room.
A5. Repaint door frames in basement.
A6. Touch up stain and re-seal finish at reception counter.
A7. Short-term maintenance: remove rust and re-paint toilet partitions at basement. Long-term planning:
coordinate new partitions with accessibility upgrades. See Code report.
A8. Replace all missing or stained ceiling tiles. At back (west) entry, provide hold-down clips to prevent tiles
from being dislodged by winter winds and pressure changes.
A9. Replace rusted ceiling diffuser in toilet rooms.
2022 Page 4
Municipal Court
Police Department
Architectural
Exterior brick in good condition Aluminum fascia panels
Dried and cracking expansion joint material Transom panels at windows
Missing vinyl tile at back door Ripped carpet at cardio room
2022 Page 5
Municipal Court
Police Department
Architectural
Chipped paint at basement door frames Worn finish at reception counter
Rusted bottom of women’s toilet partitions Rusted bottom of men’s toilet partitions
Ceiling at front stair shaft Rusted ceiling diffuser at basement toilet room
2022 Page 6
Municipal Court
Police Department
Architectural
Missing ceiling tile at back stair shaft
2022 Page 7
Municipal Court
Police Department
Code & Accessibility
code compliance and accessibility
building data
code references based on 2015 IBC
1967 original construction Basement: 6,277 SF
year(s) constructed gross area
2000 renovation of 1st floor 1st Floor: 6,277 SF
occupancy classification
Business
(chapter 3 of IBC)
construction type
Construction Type V-B
(chapter 6 IBC)
summary of code compliance/life safety
Summary of the building type and occupancy classification from the previous study is still applicable. In general,
any renovation to a space would need to meet current codes, as modified in the International Existing Building
Code.
egress and safety
Two means of egress are provided from all areas on both floors.
stairs, ramps and shafts
Both front and rear stair shafts appear to be code compliant. The front stair is accessed from the central lobby, as
opposed to egressing directly to an exit.
There is an exception to the requirement to discharge directly outside in IBC 1028.1 Exceptions 1 and 2, whereby
50% of exits may egress through an area on the level of discharge provided conditions are met. One of those
conditions is that the exit doors are “readily visible and identifiable from the point of termination of the enclosure.”
Since the exit doors are around a corner from the stair door, this would not comply with the intent of the code.
It is presumed to have complied with code at the time of its construction, and is therefore allowed to remain.
If a renovation of the stair shaft were to occur, this situation would need to be addressed.
handrails and guardrails
No change from previous assessment: handrail extension at front stair is not feasible due to configuration.
Presumed to have complied with code when built.
summary of accessibility/ADA compliance
ADA standards
The Americans with Disabilities Act places establishes an additional level of requirements on public and
commercial facilities in terms of accessibility. Unlike a building code, it is a federal law which requires continual
compliance, regardless of when a building was built. Accessibility items noted in this report fall under this category
and should thus be addressed in a timely manner.
accessible route
The elevator provides accessibility to both floors of the building. The judge’s bench is on a platform which is not
accessible. If this is an issue for any judge using the facility, space is available to add a ramp access to the platform.
Passage and door width into basement Women’s toilet rooms is not wide enough to be accessible.
doors
Doors on 1st floor are accessible width and have lever handles. Some doors in basement have knob handles which
are not accessible. (Example: entry to Women’s room from locker area.)
casework
Reception counter provides accessibility at both lower seated and higher standing height.
Breakrooms should provide a workspace at accessible 34” height.
2022 Page 8
Municipal Court
Police Department
Code & Accessibility
plumbing fixtures
Basement toilet stall are not accessible. The vertical grab bars are missing from each of the toilet rooms and stalls
on 1st floor. These are needed to comply with code and ADA guidelines.
As noted in previous report, both basement and 1st floor break rooms should provide workspace and sinks at
accessible 34” height.
legend
Deficient – Critical Priority – High Priority –
Fair – Compliant/
Immediate Replace Replace New Not Applicable
D Replacement CP in 1-2 years HP in 3-5 years F Replace C Adequate N NA
in 6-10 years
budget
architectural elements grade notes comments
cost
code compliance / Life safety
Egress and Safety C
Stairs, ramps and shafts C
Handrails/guardrails C CA3
accessibility / ADA compliance
CA1
Accessible route HP $1,500 Cost for ramp and handrails only.
CA2
Doors F CA4
Casework F CA5
CA5
Plumbing fixtures HP $400
CA6
notes:
CA1. Route into basement Women’s room is not accessible due to width of passageway.
CA2. If a judge is in need of accessibility to the judge’s platform, provide ramp access and appropriate handrails.
CA3. If front stair shaft is modified, provide handrail extensions per code.
CA4. Recommend replacing knob door hardware with lever handles.
CA5. Provide workspace in breakrooms at accessible 34” height. Could be separate table.
CA6. Add vertical grab bars to accessible toilet rooms.
2022 Page 9
Municipal Court
Police Department
Code & Accessibility
Narrow entry to basement Women’s room Knob hardware at basement Women’s room
Step up to judge’s platform Break room counter/sink at 36”
1st floor unisex toilet room – missing vertical grab bar Break room counter/sink at 36”
2022 Page 10
Municipal Court
Police Department
Code & Accessibility
1st floor Women’s – missing vertical grab bar 1st floor Men’s – missing vertical grab bar
ICC A117.1 graphic showing vertical grab bar
2022 Page 11
Municipal Court
Police Department
Structural
structural system
summary
The structure consists of steel roof deck and open web steel joists supported by exterior load-bearing masonry
walls, and concrete filled metal form deck over open web steel joists at first floor supported by exterior basement
walls and an interior steel frame of steel tube columns and wide flange beams.
legend
Deficient – Critical Priority – High Priority –
Fair – Compliant/
Immediate Replace Replace New Not Applicable
D Replacement CP in 1-2 years HP in 3-5 years F Replace C Adequate N NA
in 6-10 years
budget
structural elements grade notes comments
cost
1967 (Former Employment Security Building by
year State of Wisconsin – Department of
Administration)
structure type
Cast-in-place concrete foundation/basement
Foundations C S1 walls bearing on individual spread or continuous
strip footings.
4” concrete slab on grade with 6x6 #10/#10 wire
Basement C
mesh reinforcing.
3” concrete slab on metal form deck over open
web steel joists, supported by exterior basement
First floor C
walls and an interior steel frame of steel tube
columns and wide flange beams.
1 ½” A-20 steel roof deck and type “LH” open
Roof C web steel joists supported by exterior
load-bearing masonry walls.
building risk category NA Risk Category II
Construction Type II-B (0-hour beams, columns,
construction type NA
floor slabs, 0 hour roof)
vertical expandability NA None.
typical column
NA
spacing
overall structural The existing building is structurally sound with no
C
condition significant deficiencies noted.
notes:
S1. There is a minor vertically oriented shrinkage crack below the steel beam bearing location in the east
foundation wall of the basement storage room. The crack shows no evidence of movement or water
infiltration and is not a cause for structural concern. No remedial action is recommended at this time.
2022 Page 12
Municipal Court
Police Department
Structural
Concrete shrinkage crack in basement storage room (Note S1)
2022 Page 13
Municipal Court
Police Department
Plumbing
plumbing systems
summary
The Municipal Court building was constructed in approximately 1967 and remodeled in 2000. The original piping is
in fair condition. Majority of the water and storm piping is insulated. A thermal mixing valve (TMV) should be added
to the system. This is a code issue which needs to be corrected.
Building is served by four 3” roof drains along the outer edge. Building was re-roofed in 2000. Roof has no internal
secondary drainage or relief scuppers, which is a code issue.
Plumbing fixtures in the Basement toilet room are older and could be updated to conserve water. The 1st floor
fixtures were updated in 2000. Building utilities in general appear adequate.
legend
Deficient – Critical Priority – High Priority – Fair –
Compliant/
D Immediate CP Replace HP Replace F Replace C Adequate N New N/A Not Applicable
Replacement in 1-2 years in 3-5 years in 6-10 years
budget
plumbing systems grade notes comments
cost
Water piping condition F P1 Copper piping
Sanitary piping condition F P2 PVC & cast iron
Storm/clearwater piping condition F P3 Cast iron
Valves F P4 Gate & ball
Domestic water service C P5 2” main, 4” combined water service
Insulation HP $5,000 P6 Add “missing” insulation
Code issues D $2,000 P7 Add TMV, relocate FP drain
equipment
Water heater F P8 Newer electric heater
Recirculation pump(s) F P9
Water softener NA No water softener installed
Thermal mixing valve (TMV) D $6,000 P10 Add TMV (code issue)
Backflow preventer F P12
Elevator sump/pump C P13 Simplex
Drain tile sump pump F P14 (3) Simplex, (1) Duplex
Sanitary ejector pump F P15 Duplex
fixtures
Plumbing fixtures F P11
2022 Page 14
Municipal Court
Police Department
Plumbing
budget
plumbing systems grade notes comments
cost
exterior
Storm drainage, roof drains F P16
Water main F P17
Lawn irrigation NA
notes:
P1. Water piping is mainly copper, soldered joints in fair condition. There are some pre-press connections at the
water heater. Some sections of piping are missing insulation. Repair as required.
P2. Original sanitary is cast iron hub & spigot. 2000 remodeling is cast iron no-hub. Pump discharge piping from
ejectors is newer PVC.
P3. Storm piping is cast iron hub & spigot. Piping is insulated with glass fiber. Pump discharge is original
galvanized or newer PVC.
P4. Original valves are gate; newer valves are ball.
P5. Building is served by a 4” water service for the combined fire protection and domestic water. 2” water main,
1” meter set with a 3-valved by-pass in the Mechanical room.
P6. Water and storm piping is insulated with glass fiber. Some sections of water piping are missing insulation.
Repair as required.
P7. Code issues: water temperature is set at 120° Fahrenheit - maximum temperature to be 110-115 degrees
Fahrenheit. No thermostatic mixing valve (TMV) at the heater. Add TMV per code. Fire protection drain
discharges to a janitor’s sink in the basement, which is not allowed per code for in-direct waste discharge.
Re-route drain piping to a nearby floor drain. Install hose end vacuum breaker on the hose bib at the water
main.
P8. Water heater is electric, AO Smith model #ECS 40 200, 208/240Volt, 40-gallon unit. Piping has pro-press
connections, also missing insulation. Repair as required. 1” HCW connections.
P9. Existing B&G 120Volt recirculation pump with timer. ¾” hot water return piping to pump.
P10. Add TMV at the water heater. Set hot water temperature to 110° Fahrenheit. A thermostatic mixing valve on
the hot water system is required per code.
P11. Plumbing fixtures: Plumbing fixtures on 1st floor are ADA accessible. 1st floor Men’s and Women’s toilet rooms
have wall-hung vitreous water closets (WC) at regular and ADA height. Urinal is wall-hung at 17” a.f.f.; lavatory
is wall-hung with metering faucet. Safety covers installed. Lobby has bi-level ADA electric water coolers.
Judge’s Chambers has a tank-type WC installed, vitreous lavatory in countertop, lever handle control on
faucet. Toilet room also has a fiberglass modular shower. Staff toilet room has wall-hung WC and lavatory
and an older style electric water cooler (EWC) in the adjacent corridor.
Basement fixtures appear to be original vintage. WC’s and lavatories are wall-hung, vitreous fixtures. Urinal is
floor mount with flush valve. Break room sinks are stainless steel drop-in type with faucet. There is a newer
ADA compliant EWC with a bottle filler located in the weightlifting area.
Each floor has a janitor’s sink. Basement sink has the fire protection inspector’s test indirect waste
discharging to it-which is not allowed per code. Test drain needs to be routed to a floor drain. See note P7.
Exterior of building has non-freeze sill faucets installed.
2022 Page 15
Municipal Court
Police Department
Plumbing
P12. Janitor’s sink faucet with hose connection ends has a threaded vacuum breaker installed. Sink faucet also
has a diverter valve installed for a soap dispenser connection. Note: Typically, these soap dispensers are
a source of cross-connection if the faucet is left on, as the cold water bleeds into the hot waterside.
This becomes the reason for a lack of hot water and lower temperatures. Hose bib at the water main needs
to have a hose end vacuum breaker installed.
P13. Elevator sump/pump is simplex, submersible with a high-water alarm installed.
P14. Building has four separate drain tile sump/pump locations. One unit is a duplex, other three are simplex
pump(s), and all are submersible. Simplex unit in the workout area (located under the mats) has a high-water
alarm installed. High water alarms should be installed on the other pumps also. Note: Typically, pump
discharge connection(s) are made into the top of the gravity sewer – not into the side of the piping as these
are installed.
P15. Sanitary ejector pumps are duplex top-mount. Pumps are 1 ½ hp, 208Volt, 3-phase.
P16. Building is served by four 3” roof drains with 4” roof leaders to below grade. Piping is insulated with glass
fiber. There is no secondary roof drainage installed, which is a code issue. (International Plumbing Code
1108.1) Secondary drainage could have been added during the last re-roofing project.
P17. Utilities are fed from Jefferson Street. 4” water main to the building serves the domestic water and fire
protection systems combined. 4” sanitary sewer. 4” and 6” storm sewers combined, route to a 6” storm main
to the street. Parking lot has internal storm drainage with catch basin(s).
4” water service Water piping
2022 Page 16
Municipal Court
Police Department
Plumbing
Water piping, Gate valve Water piping
Sanitary piping (cast iron & PVC) Storm piping - insulated
Storm piping, draintile pump discharge Water piping at water heater, pro-press piping
2022 Page 17
Municipal Court
Police Department
Plumbing
Water meter with by-pass Electric water heater
Hot water recirculating pump Water closet – 1st floor public men’s
Lavatories – 1 st floor public men’s Urinal – basement men’s
2022 Page 18
Municipal Court
Police Department
Plumbing
Lavatories – basement women’s Water closet – basement men’s
Water closet – judge’s toilet room Shower – judge’s toilet room
Staff toilet room – 1 st floor Janitor’s sink
2022 Page 19
Municipal Court
Police Department
Plumbing
Electric water coolers – lobby Electric water cooler – basement
Basement sink Elevator sump/pump
Elevator – high water alarm Clearwater sump/pump
2022 Page 20
Municipal Court
Police Department
Plumbing
Drain tile sump/pump, alarm Drain tile sump/pump
Sanitary ejector – duplex pumps Breakroom sink -1st floor
Non-freeze sill faucet Sanitary vent & roof drain
2022 Page 21
Municipal Court
Police Department
Plumbing
Roof & skylights Sanitary vent & roof drain
Parking lot- catch basin
2022 Page 22
Municipal Court
Police Department
Fire Protection
fire protection systems
summary
The Municipal Court building was constructed in approximately 1967 and remodeled in 2000. This building is
partially sprinkled, with a fully sprinkled basement but no sprinkler system on the first floor main area.
The 4” water main comes into the basement through the east wall and supplies both the domestic water supply
and the fire protection sprinkler system.
The sprinkler system piping, valves, sprinkler heads, and equipment appear to be in good condition and free of
corrosion and leaks.
There are several minor deficiencies on the sprinkler system. They are not affecting the proper operation of the
system but should be corrected. See note FP3.
legend
Deficient – Critical Priority – High Priority – Fair –
Compliant/
D Immediate CP Replace HP Replace F Replace C Adequate N New N/A Not Applicable
Replacement in 1-2 years in 3-5 years in 6-10 years
budget
fire protection grade notes Comments
cost
Water service C FP1 4” water service
Backflow prevention C FP2
Fire pump NA Not Required
Fire pump controller NA
Jockey pump N/A Not Required
Jockey pump controller N/A
wet pipe sprinkler system
Valves F FP3
Piping F FP3
Sprinkler heads F FP3
Basement is sprinkled, first floor is
Percent of building unit sprinkled 50% FP3
not.
Elevator machine rooms sprinkled C FP4
Electrical Switchgear room sprinkled C FP4
Elevator hoist way pits sprinkled C FP5
other fire protection systems
Pre-action system NA FP6
Kitchen hood system NA FP6
2022 Page 23
Municipal Court
Police Department
Fire Protection
notes:
FP1. The 4” combined water service enters the building in the basement and splits 2” to the domestic water
system and 4” to the fire protection system.
FP2. The backflow preventer is an Ames 2000 SS 4” double check valve backflow preventer with OS&Y gate
valves. The backflow preventer and the gate valves are in good condition.
FP3. The basement level and the stairwells are fully sprinkled. The deficiencies on the fire sprinkler system
include the following. The sprinkler flow indicator stickers installed on the piping to the fire department
connection are pointing in the wrong direction. The automatic ball drip valve on the fire department
connection check valve is capped. This drip valve is meant to allow water in the check valve to drip out to
prevent freezing. A pendent sprinkler head was discovered that was not replaced with an upright head when
the ceiling was removed. The inspector’s test drain is piped to a sink. There are a few upright sprinkler heads
that are not piped to within 6” of the bottom of the metal deck – minor deficiency. All valves, piping, and
sprinkler heads appear to be in good condition. The piping shows no indication of corrosion and the valves
appear to be in good condition.
FP4. The elevator equipment room and hoist-way pit are sprinkled which meets the requirements of NFPA 13.
FP5. The elevator is hydraulic which requires sprinkler heads both in the pit of the hoist-way shaft and in the
elevator equipment room. Sprinkler heads are located in both locations.
FP6. There are no kitchens or server rooms requiring fire suppression systems in the building.
Fire department connection Test connection
2022 Page 24
Municipal Court
Police Department
Fire Protection
Fire protection riser 4” double check backflow preventer
Flow direction points the wrong direction Automatic ball drip capped
Pendent sprinkler head too far from ceiling Sprinkler head with baffle in electrical room
2022 Page 25
Municipal Court
Police Department
Fire Protection
Inspector’s test drain discharging in sink Sprinkler head under duct
Sprinkler head – missing escutcheon Sprinkler head in stairwell
Fire protection main
2022 Page 26
Municipal Court
Police Department
HVAC Systems
HVAC systems
summary
The building was constructed in 1967 and in 2000 was remodeled for the municipal court. The remodeling installed
ductwork, VAV terminals and heating devices on first floor and minimally renovated the basement systems.
The basement was renovated about ten years ago to create police department work-out spaces. The HVAC
systems were minimally affected with the latest renovations. Minor grille and duct modifications have been made
on the lower level since the last evaluation.
A modular air unit installed in a basement mechanical room serves the entire building. The system has filtration,
heating coil, and a refrigerant cooling coil which serves an outdoor condensing unit. The condensing unit was
replaced about eight years ago, according to maintenance staff. The air unit continues to underperform, leading to
temperature and high humidity issues in the building. The building is under-ventilated and the unit does not have
capacity to take on additional outside necessary to adequately serve the occupant design requirements. The air
unit mechanical room is very cramped. The air unit is past its expected useful life. Components are being
maintained and replaced as they fail but, due to the cramped conditions, maintenance is difficult and time
consuming. Replacement of the unit will require an extended period of outage.
Due to the low structure clear height in the basement, the ductwork has been routed through the joist space and
has been sized as medium pressure ductwork, which increases air velocity and noise. Grilles through the basement
area are loud. The basement remodeling has left some ductwork in a semi-abandoned state. The main supply
ducts are insulated with duct liner and the insulation has eroded slightly.
Exhaust ventilation for toilet rooms, janitor closets and other miscellaneous spaces is served by a variety of power
roof ventilators and ceiling exhaust fans. The fans vary in age, size and condition, as they have been installed and
replaced during the various remodeling projects.
A hot water boiler installed adjacent to the air unit serves the building heating requirements. The boiler system,
piping, and venting was replaced in the last couple years. No operational issues were noted with this system.
Piping and insulation is, in general, original to the building with some exceptions at the revised VAV terminals
installed in 2000. Piping insulation is missing or in disrepair in a variety of locations and is missing in areas where
maintenance staff has required access to the piping and system components and insulation was not replaced.
The controls are low voltage DDC. An operator terminal is located in the mechanical room.
legend
Deficient – Critical Priority – High Priority – Fair –
Compliant/
D Immediate CP Replace HP Replace F Replace C Adequate N New N/A Not Applicable
Replacement in 1-2 years in 3-5 years in 6-10 years
budget
HVAC systems grade notes Comments
cost
Trane modular unit. Unit’s exact age unknown
Air unit H1
but appears to be at least 30 years old.
Maintenance staff has kept unit operating, well
Housing CP $250,000 H1
past expected useful life.
Condensing unit F Carrier Unit model 38aks028, R-22
Air intake C Area way to six feet above grade.
Coils CP (incl) H1 Hot water and refrigerant coils.
Fan CP (incl) H1 15 HP, 11,000 CFM
Filters CP (incl) H1 30%
2022 Page 27
Municipal Court
Police Department
HVAC Systems
budget
HVAC systems grade notes Comments
cost
Controls CP (incl) H1 DDC, Valves have been replaced.
Original except where replaced during
Ductwork HP $40,000 H1 projects. Medium pressure. Loud and leaky.
Sealing and/or replacement required.
Duct liner is slightly eroded. Most piping
Insulation HP $4,000 H1 insulation is in fair condition. Poor at AHU
control valves.
Occupied space thermal Some VAV units do not have reheat coils,
HP $28,000 H1
comfort rooms can overcool.
exhaust fans H2
Toilet/locker room exhaust F Multiple fans. PRV, cabinet, centrifugal.
Mostly original. Minimal replacement during
renovation projects. Lint/dust is coating the
Exhaust ductwork HP $16,000 H2 grilles and ductwork in the basement, less on
first floor. Recommend cleaning, sealing, and
rebalance.
boiler system H3
Boilers C H3 Apex commercial boiler
Pumps C Taco, in-line pumps
Piping C Mix of copper and steel.
Insulation missing at a variety of locations.
Pipe insulation HP $7,000 H3
Poor condition around unit coils.
Room terminal units C Convectors, VAV, cabinet heaters.
Elevator machinery room is not separate
Mechanical room ventilation D $13,000 H4
system.
controls H5
Upgrade front end with major equipment
DDC C
replacement project.
notes:
H1. The unit is an indoor modular unit with hot water heating coil, refrigerant cooling coil and VAV control.
The unit appears to be at least 35 years old, which exceeds the units expected useful life. The condensing
unit was replaced approximately 8 years ago as the old one had failed. Maintenance staff has replaced
components on this unit as they have failed, which has allowed the unit to maintain operation to this point.
Eventually, corrosion, tube erosion, and metal fatigue will cause major failure of the coils and/or fans.
The mechanical room is extremely tight and a replacement will require an extended period of downtime.
The unit is undersized to adequately ventilate the building and temperature and humidity issues require
the use of supplemental systems and dehumidifiers to maintain comfort. A project to replace the air
handling unit, possibly with an outdoor, on-grade unit, is recommended.
The supply ducts are lined. Duct liner erodes over time. This will lead to system inefficiency and
condensation which will damage building material. It is recommended to seal the ductwork and install duct
wrap insulation during renovation projects.
An older DDC control system controls the air unit and VAV controls. The system is operational but will
require updating when the unit is replaced.
2022 Page 28
Municipal Court
Police Department
HVAC Systems
Some VAV terminals did not have reheat coils and temperature control is dependent on the room’s load
and terminal’s ability to shut-down. These units are primarily located in the basement, which has been
revised to work-out space. The HVAC was not modified during the room revisions and the spaces were
quite cool when unoccupied. During the basement remodel, some ductwork was removed and left in a
partially abandoned state. Some grilles were removed, and the ductwork is left open to blow into the
space, while other grilles remain and are quite noisy. A project to add reheat coils and modify the
basement ductwork is recommended to improve occupant comfort and reduce noise levels.
H2. The building exhaust system is served by multiple fans of various sizes and types. The ages and conditions
vary greatly, as the units have been modified and replaced as necessary. Dust and lint build-up is prevalent
at the lower-level grilles and ducts. Air flow within these spaces appears diminished and can be attributed
to older leaking ductwork combined with the dirtying of the systems. Duct cleaning, taping, sealing, and air
balancing are recommended.
H3. The boiler system has been replaced since the last evaluation. No operational issues were noted during
the building walk-through.
Pipe insulation is missing or in disrepair in a variety of locations around the building. The insulation is
especially poor around the air unit and boiler, where maintenance work has required the removal of the
insulation and it was not repaired or replaced. It is recommended to insulate this piping and repair
insulation during an air unit and/or boiler replacement project.
H4. The elevator machinery room is exhausted by a building general exhaust fan. Code requires independent
systems to serve elevators. A fan dedicated to the elevator room is recommended to be installed.
H5. Controls are low voltage DDC controls. The system will require an upgrade when a major equipment
replacement project occurs. Upgrades will allow this building to be monitored from a central location.
Air unit Air unit
2022 Page 29
Municipal Court
Police Department
HVAC Systems
Duct (sealed) Circulation fan
VAV terminal (no reheat) Older VAV terminal
Cabinet fan Old grille (plugged)
2022 Page 30
Municipal Court
Police Department
HVAC Systems
Condensing unit Refrigerant piping
Good insulation (typical) Poor insulation (typical)
Air unit coils Boiler
2022 Page 31
Municipal Court
Police Department
HVAC Systems
Hot water pumps Gas meter
Area way Variable frequency drive
Electric thermostat Low voltage thermostat
2022 Page 32
Municipal Court
Police Department
HVAC Systems
Portable dehumidifier Exhaust fan
Exhaust fan Exhaust grille (degraded)
2022 Page 33
Municipal Court
Police Department
Electrical
electrical systems
summary
The electric service is rated 600-Amps at 120/208-Volt, 3-Phase, and is fed underground from pole-mounted
transformers located west of the building. The main distribution panel (MDP) is in the basement. It was installed
during a renovation project in 2000. There is a spare 4” conduit routed from the MDP to the CT cabinet located on
the building’s west elevation. The MDP was manufactured by Square D, is in good condition, and has a total of
19.5-inches of unused space available for new circuit breakers. New and replacement circuit breakers are still
available. There are three branch circuit panels. Two were added with the 2000 project and are manufactured by
Square D (type NQOD); the other is manufactured by Westinghouse. The Square D panels are in good condition.
New and replacement parts are available for the Square D panels; however, Westinghouse no longer manufactures
electric panel boards or circuit breakers. All circuit breaker positions in all branch circuit panelboards are occupied.
Interior lighting fixtures predominantly use T8 fluorescent lamps with electronic ballasts. Generally, lighting fixtures
appear to be in good condition. A few fixtures on the basement level are missing lenses or have sagging lenses.
The majority of downlight/can fixtures utilize compact fluorescent lamps. The courtroom includes six incandescent
downlight fixtures; there are approximately a dozen incandescent downlights in one of the fitness rooms in the
basement. Some downlights have been retrofit with self-ballasted compact fluorescent lamps. Interior spaces are
equipped with occupancy sensors or electronic timer switches that shut lighting OFF for energy conservation.
Exterior lighting fixtures are soffit-mounted recessed HID (metal halide) controlled via a time clock.
Unit equipment or battery-packs are used for the emergency egress lighting; coverage does not comply with
today’s emergency egress illumination codes. Not all fixtures were operational.
The building has a zoned fire alarm system whose control panel was reportedly replaced in 2014. The panel has
six spare zones. Coverage with audible and audible/visual alarm (A/V alarm) devices is not code compliant.
The elevator lobby smoke detector outside the basement elevator doors is located too close to the sidewall and is
not permanently fastened. This detector is mounted on a piece of 2x4 lumber spanning, but not fastened to the
building’s structural members. There is no evidence of a shunt-trip mechanism to automatically disconnect power
to the elevator when sprinklers are activated in the elevator machine room and/or elevator shaft. A shunt-trip
operation is required by code when the machine room and elevator shaft are protected by fire sprinklers.
In the basement, a few electrical boxes are missing covers and a couple of conduit runs are not supported
properly. Code requires conduit be supported within 3-feet of a box and at intervals not exceeding 10 feet.
Conduit penetrations through the east stairwell wall in the basement are not fire sealed.
legend
Deficient – Critical Priority – High Priority – Fair –
Compliant/
D Immediate CP Replace HP Replace F Replace C Adequate N New N/A Not Applicable
Replacement in 1-2 years in 3-5 years in 6-10 years
budget
electrical systems grade notes comments
cost
electrical service
Utility service entrance C 600A, 120/208V, 3 phase 4-wire
normal power distribution equipment
Square D I-Line model is in good
Main switchboard C condition, and actively supported by
the manufacturer.
Replace the obsolete Westinghouse
Branch panels F $9,000 E1
panel.
2022 Page 34
Municipal Court
Police Department
Electrical
budget
electrical systems grade notes comments
cost
emergency power distribution equipment
There is no emergency power in the
Generator N/A
building.
lighting
Mixture of parabolic and prismatic
Atrium, office spaces, conference lensed fixtures using T8 fluorescent
C
rooms and corridors lamps and electronic ballasts; fixtures
are generally in good condition.
Consider replacing the A19
Incandescent and fluorescent incandescent lamped and self-ballasted
F $10,000 E2
interior down lights compact fluorescent lamped
downlights with LED fixtures.
Consider replacing HID lamped lighting
Exterior soffit downlights F $2,000 E2 fixtures in the exterior soffit with LED
sourced fixtures
Ceramic lamp holders with screw-in
compact fluorescent lamps, surface
Mechanical spaces, storage rooms,
C mounted wraps and industrial strips
utility areas
with T-8 lamps, in fair to good
condition.
lighting controls
Conference or meeting rooms C Existing occupancy sensors
Offices C Existing occupancy sensors
Occupancy sensors or electronic timer
Toilet rooms/small storage C
switches are used.
emergency egress lighting and exit signs
Add additional EM lights. Replace
Emergency battery packs and exit
D $5,000 E3 batteries; confirm lamps are good and
signs
fixtures work properly.
fire alarm devices
Install additional audible and
Horns and horn/strobes CP $10,000 E4
audible/visual alarm devices.
Smoke detector at elevator,
CP $1,000 E4 Install per code.
basement
Install shunt-trip control on main power
Shunt-trip mechanism D $8,000 E5
to elevator.
tele-data system
Racks, cabinets, cabling, and jacks C Cat 5 and 6 cabling.
2022 Page 35
Municipal Court
Police Department
Electrical
notes:
E1. Availability of new and replacement parts will eventually become an issue for the obsolete
Westinghouse panels.
E2. Consideration should be given to replacing older non-LED fixtures with new LED ones.
E3. Keeping emergency egress lighting operational is important to limit liability exposure.
E4. When non-code required devices are voluntarily added to a fire alarm system, code requires the
entire installation shall comply with code. There are several rooms without audible or
audible/visual alarms. Smoke detector at elevator in basement requires attention.
E5. Code requires the power to the elevator be disconnected if fire sprinklers in the elevator machine
room and/or elevator shaft are activated. Releasing water on energized electrical circuits could
result in a passenger in the elevator being electrocuted.
MDP panel Fire alarm panel
EM battery pack Timer switch
2022 Page 36
Municipal Court
Police Department
Electrical
Detector not installed properly Opening through wall common with stairway
Exit sign
2022 Page 37
City of Green Bay
Green Bay, WI
Police Station
Comm. No. 22CGB12.00
September 30, 2022
310 Pine St. Green Bay, WI 54301 | P:920-432-4865 | www.bernersschober.com
City of Green Bay
Police Station
Facility Assessment
City of Green Bay | Green Bay, WI
Comm. No. 22CGB12.00
table of contents
summary ................................................................................................................................................................................................... 1
summary chart........................................................................................................................................................................................ 2
architectural exterior ........................................................................................................................................................................... 4
Building description ............................................................................................................................................................... 4
Building envelope ................................................................................................................................................................... 4
Chart .......................................................................................................................................................................................... 5
Photos ........................................................................................................................................................................................ 6
architectural interior ............................................................................................................................................................................ 9
Building description ............................................................................................................................................................... 9
Interior conditions ................................................................................................................................................................... 9
Chart .......................................................................................................................................................................................... 10
Photos ........................................................................................................................................................................................ 11
code compliance and accessibility ................................................................................................................................................. 15
Building data ............................................................................................................................................................................. 15
Summary of code compliance/life safety.......................................................................................................................... 15
Summary of accessibility/ADA compliance...................................................................................................................... 16
Chart ............................................................................................................................................................................................ 18
Photos ......................................................................................................................................................................................... 19
structural ................................................................................................................................................................................................. 22
Summary ................................................................................................................................................................................... 22
Chart .......................................................................................................................................................................................... 22
Photos ........................................................................................................................................................................................ 23
plumbing ................................................................................................................................................................................................... 25
Summary .................................................................................................................................................................................... 25
Chart ............................................................................................................................................................................................ 25
Photos ......................................................................................................................................................................................... 28
mechanical ............................................................................................................................................................................................... 37
HVAC systems ......................................................................................................................................................................... 37
Summary .................................................................................................................................................................................... 37
Chart ............................................................................................................................................................................................ 37
Photos ......................................................................................................................................................................................... 42
electrical.................................................................................................................................................................................................... 47
Summary .................................................................................................................................................................................... 47
Chart............................................................................................................................................................................................ 47
photos ......................................................................................................................................................................................... 49
Police Station
Police Department
Summary
report description
An assessment of the Police Station was conducted in 2015 by Berners Schober which reviewed the condition of
the building’s architectural, structural, mechanical, plumbing and electrical elements. This report, done in the
summer of 2022, is an update to the previous assessment. Each building was re-surveyed by trade and the reports
updated. Below are brief summaries of the changes to the building in the intervening 7 years.
architectural
The roof is scheduled for replacement and is not a part of this assessment. Exterior precast and brick have
condition issues typical for weather exposure: brittle caulk, staining and cracking. Concrete canopy at the south has
additional spalling. Door thresholds and weatherstripping are deteriorating. Metal framing and housings of shutters
are faded and beginning to rust.
Most interior finishes exhibit additional wear and staining. Floor finishes show considerable wear.
code/accessibility
The Wisconsin building code has been updated since the last assessment to referencing the 2015 International
Building Code (IBC). The 2015 IBC references the 2009 ICC A117.1 Accessible and Usable Buildings and Facilities
code. The 2010 ADA Standards remain in effect since the previous assessment. Major building elements, such as
the stair and elevator shafts, are unchanged.
Since the 2015 assessment there appear to have been no changes to accessible features.
structure
Structural elements have exhibited little change since the previous assessment.
plumbing
Shop air compressor was replaced. New unit is a Snap-On.
fire protection
There has been no change to the fire protection system since the last assessment.
mechanical
Gas fired unit heaters were installed in the garage since the previous assessment. The facility hot water boilers
were replaced in 2022.
electrical
No major changes/updates to the electrical systems have been made since the last evaluation. Some additional
exterior and interior lighting has been upgraded to LED.
Clearance around some panels was increased per recommendations. The server room has additional clearance
space issues.
2022 Page 1
Police Station
Summary of Priority Items
ITEM DEFICIENT (d) CRITICAL HIGH PRIORITY (hp) COST ESTIMATE
Immediate PRIORITY (cp) Replace in 3-5
Replacement Replace in 1-2 years
years
Police Station
architectural Precast panels $7,000 – $8,000
architectural Precast soffits $1,000 – $2,000
architectural Precast canopy $8,000 - $12,000
Bollards at garage
architectural $6,000 – $8,000
doors
Weatherstripping at
architectural $500 – $700
doors
architectural Exterior lintels $1,000 – $2,000
architectural Seal parking lot $27,000 – $30,000
architectural Carpet $45,000 – $50,000
Vinyl Composite
architectural $18,000 – $22,000
Tile
architectural Doors and Frames $8,000 - $12,000
code Showers $8,000 - $10,000
Toilets/Urinals
code $4,000 - $6,000
Men’s locker room
Toilets/Urinals
code $12,000 - $15,000
accessible 1st floor
Domestic Water
plumbing $3,000
Heater
Thermal Mixing
plumbing $8,000
Valve
Backflow
plumbing $5,000
prevention
Storm & roof
plumbing $8,000
drainage
HVAC Air unit housing $435,000
HVAC Insulation $8,000
Occupied space
HVAC $170,000
thermal comfort
HVAC Pumps $5,000
HVAC Insulation $1,500
HVAC Housing $2,500
HVAC Housing $30,000
HVAC Condensing units $2,500
HVAC Exhaust ductwork $16,000
HVAC Pumps $15,000
HVAC Room terminal units $15,000
HVAC Make-up air unit $140,000
HVAC Exhaust $40,000
HVAC Control $20,000
2022 Page 2
bernersschober.com 920.432.4865
310 Pine Street | Green Bay, WI 54301
electrical Transfer switch $25,000
Main distribution
electrical $10,000
panel
electrical Branch panels $25,000
electrical Receptacles $1,500
Lighting controls;
electrical $6,000
office areas
Lighting controls;
electrical $1,500
toilet room areas
Police Station Total $1,139,000 – $1,171,200
2022 Page 3
Police Station
Police Department
Architecture-Exterior
architecture
building description
This police station building was constructed in 1969 with a few renovations over the years. The exterior consists of
brick and precast concrete panels. The building is in fair to good condition for a building of this age. Condition
issues are itemized below. Parking lot is in fair condition.
building envelope
roof
The roof is fully adhered EPDM rubber roof membrane. It has been slated for replacement as part of another
project and will not be part of this review.
exterior walls
Portions of the exterior walls are brick, which is in fair condition. There are a few spots where tuck-pointing would
be recommended as part of a typical maintenance program. One area near an inside corner shows effervescence
that starts approximately 6’ up on an inside corner and extends diagonally down. The mortar is compromised, and
the exposed portion of foundation wall is stained.
The remainder of the exterior walls are precast concrete panels. At the panel joints, there is dried and brittle
caulking which should be replaced. There are also several locations where the panels are stained from the window
frames or other wall-mounted equipment. Large gaps are present in the soffit areas of the precast panels. There is
also some damage to the upper portion of the precast concrete wall panel at the southeast corner where a
previous patch was made. There are some settlement cracks in the vertical concrete elements between the large
west-facing windows.
Some damage to the jambs at the garage doors appears to be from vehicle contact. It is recommended that pipe
bollards be installed both inside and outside of the garage doors to prevent additional damage to the jambs and
door tracks.
The concrete canopy along the south side of the building has spalled and cracked concrete. This is allowing water
to penetrate the canopy and could cause additional damage to the soffit if not addressed.
exterior windows and doors
Exterior public entry doors and windows on the west side are aluminum frame. They are in good condition,
although the finish is faded.
The staff entry doors are insulated hollow metal in hollow metal frames in good condition. Like all buildings of this
age, the weather stripping and thresholds are worn and deteriorated. Steel lintels across exterior wall openings are
rusting. Coiling shutters at west side are also beginning to rust.
The windows appear to be thermally broken with insulated glass. The windows do not appear to have broken seals
as no signs of moisture were noted during this review. The exterior window jambs and infill panels along the east
side of the building are faded. The housing around the window covers need to be painted to prevent further
damage from rusting on the west side of the building. There are a few empty conduits that could be removed.
parking lot
Asphalt surface is cracked and looks to have been maintained by sealing cracks for a number of years. Re-sealing
is recommended to extend the surface’s useful life. A concrete curb by parking/drive area is damaged.
2022 Page 4
Police Station
Police Department
Architecture-Exterior
legend
Deficient – Critical Priority – High Priority – Fair –
Compliant/
D Immediate CP Replace HP Replace F Replace C Adequate N New N/A Not Applicable
Replacement in 1-2 years in 3-5 years in 6-10 years
architectural elements grade budget cost notes comments
exterior elements
Brick walls F $3,000 – $5,000 A1
Precast panels CP $7,000 – $8,000 A2
Precast soffits HP $1,000 – $2,000 A3
Cost will depend on
Precast canopy CP $8,000 – $12,000 A4
selected repair solution.
Window trim F $3,000 – $5,000 A5
Coiling metal shutters F $1,000 – $3,000 A6
Bollards at garage doors HP $6,000 – $8,000 A7
Weatherstripping at doors HP $500 - $700 A8
Exterior lintels HP $1,000 – $2,000 A9
Seal parking lot HP $27,000 – $30,000 A10
notes:
A1. Tuckpoint approximately 10% of brick joints. Note especially triangular area in north corner at juncture of
garage and office.
A2. Remove dried and brittle caulk in precast joints. Re-seal with backer rod and sealant. Patch/repair cracks
at vertical concrete between west windows. Power wash panels to remove stains under windows and
wall-mounted equipment.
A3. Infill gaps at precast soffits to prevent insect or animal infestation.
A4. Repair canopy over staff entry. Design options include use of concrete repair products (such as Sika
products and systems) or covering the canopy in metal cladding.
A5. Paint break metal trim and panels at windows.
A6. Paint exterior hood portion of coiling metal shutters.
A7. Recommend adding 6” steel pipe bollards at garage doors
A8. Replace weatherstripping at exterior metal doors as needed.
A9. Repaint all exterior metal lintels and soffit elements.
A10. Seal asphalt parking (85,600 SF) lot and restripe.
2022 Page 5
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Architecture-Exterior
Caulking dried and brittle Brick in good condition
Caulking dried and brittle Efflorescence on brick
Damaged canopy Faded window infill panels
2022 Page 6
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Police Department
Architecture-Exterior
Damaged door jamb and door track Streaking below windows
Window housing faded and rusting Faded metal window trim
2022 Page 7
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Police Department
Architecture-Exterior
Cracked concrete between windows Damaged concrete curb
Gaps under precast concrete panels Previous sealing of asphalt cracks
2022 Page 8
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Architectural-Interior
architecture
building description
Original building was constructed in 1969, with the 2nd floor added in 1992. Power-operated coiling metal shutters
were added to protect window openings.
interior conditions
floors
The condition of many of the floor finishes in the building is fair to poor.
Quarry tiles on the south stair are chipped, with some non-matching tiles used to patch.
Carpets are worn in many areas with some seams of broadloom carpets frayed. Carpets are stained in many areas.
Cut pile carpet is not appropriate for a space used for offices, as it is difficult to move chairs over the surface.
Plastic mats are used in some places.
Vinyl composite tile (VCT) in basement has stains, chips, and is worn in areas under chairs. The older adhesives
used on these tiles may be what is causing the dirt to collect around the seams. VCT that was in the room used for
high-density evidence storage was abated due to asbestos content in the adhesive.
Ceramic mosaic tiles are in generally good condition. Some patching is evident.
walls
Minor chipping of concrete block corners and glazed wall tiles. Bottom of walls in the high-density file storage room
has deteriorated. Lack of flooring and wall base has contributed to this situation.
doors and frames
High-use doors show wear at locations of door push. This may be able to be cleaned and re-protected with clear
finish. Paint is missing from many metal door light frames. Some wood doors have scratched veneers at lower
portion (no kickplate). Door hardware missing includes latches in door, latch plate in frame and kickplates. Doors in
the basement are generally in the worst condition.
See Code section of this report for comments on doorknobs.
casework
Original wood and plastic laminate casework is dated and showing its age. Minor chipping of laminate is visible on
outer corners of countertops. Cabinet doors in plastic laminate casework are starting to sag. Wood casework
dating from 1990s and newer is in good condition.
ceilings
Many ceiling tiles are stained or missing, especially on the basement level.
2022 Page 9
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Architectural-Interior
legend
Deficient – Critical Priority – High Priority – Fair –
Compliant/
D Immediate CP Replace HP Replace F Replace C Adequate N New N/A Not Applicable
Replacement in 1-2 years in 3-5 years in 6-10 years
architectural elements grade budget cost notes comments
interior conditions
Floors: general F A1
Approx. (minimum) areas of new
carpet:
Basement: 700 SF
Carpet HP $45,000 – $50,000 A2
1st Floor: 3,100 SF
Est. $3/SF removal and $9/SF
replacement.
Quarry tile F A3
Approx.. area of basement
corridors: 1,900 SF.
Asbestos survey not included.
Vinyl composite tile (VCT) HP $18,000 – $22,000 A4
Budget for removal and
replacement only. Est. $3/SF
removal and $7/SF
replacement.
Mosaic tile F
Walls F A5
Estimate replacement of four
doors and hardware at $2K-$3K
Doors and frames C HP $8,000 – $12,000 A6, A7
per door. Additional refinishing
not estimated.
Hollow metal frames F A6
Casework F A8
Ceilings F A9
notes:
A1. General floor maintenance: scrape and re-paint areas where floor paint has worn off (entry to shooting
gallery).
A2. Recommend replacement of cut pile carpet in office areas (Photo Processing). Most existing low-pile
carpet is also very worn. Plan for replacement. Floor finish for office use areas should be either a vinyl
product or low pile carpet tiles for ease of maintenance and replacement. Short term: provide transition
strip at edges of carpet in lieu of duct tape. Long term: replace all carpets with appropriate flooring for
use of space.
A3. Replace chipped tiles at south stair.
2022 Page 10
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Architectural-Interior
A4. Short term: Replace areas of missing VCT (Evidence Lost & Found, High Density File Storage room).
Recommend thorough mechanical cleaning of high traffic areas. An asbestos survey of the building
should be done since asbestos content was previously found in the adhesive for the high-density
Evidence Storage room. Long term: plan for replacement of all VCT in basement.
A5. Patch and paint chips in concrete masonry unit walls and gypsum board walls in basement.
A6. Doors on 1st and 2nd floors are in generally good condition. Re-paint metal doors and metal lite frames.
Hardware update addressed in Code section of this report.
A7. Refinish or replace doors with scratched and damaged veneer finish. Install minimum of 12” high kick
plates. Estimated 4 doors; those in worst condition are in basement. See Code section of this report for
recommended update of door hardware.
A8. Repair chips and delamination in plastic laminate countertops: Evidence Lost & Found, 2nd floor break
area.
A9. Replace missing and stained ceiling panels.
Chipped paint at shooting gallery entry Chipped tiles at south stair
2022 Page 11
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Architectural-Interior
Dirt at center of corridor and edges of tiles
Worn, stained cut-pile carpet Duct tape at transition from carpet to VCT
Missing VCT at basement Worn carpet at office area
2022 Page 12
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Architectural-Interior
Worn VCT at shop office Damaged corner – Range
Deteriorated base at high-density storage Damaged corner – Shift Commander
Chipped paint at lite and damaged wood finish Chipped paint at lite and damaged wood finish
Missing kick plate
2022 Page 13
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Architectural-Interior
Scratched wood veneer Damaged wood veneer & missing kick plate
Plastic laminate casework condition Chipped plastic laminate
Missing and misplaced ceiling tiles Typical stained ceiling tile
2022 Page 14
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Code & Accessibility
code compliance and accessibility
building data
code references based on 2015 IBC
Basement: 13,952 SF
1st Floor: 14,592 SF
1968-9 (original documents not 2nd Floor: 13,952 SF
year(s) constructed gross area
available) Garage: 8,646 SF
(includes garage office)
Mezz of garage: 1,872 SF
Separated occupancies: B - Business and S-1 Moderate-hazard Storage with an
occupancy classification
incidental use room of H-2 Hazardous (gas and oil storage) (See discussion
(chapter 3 of IBC)
below)
The class of construction in the code at the time would have been 5B, Exterior
Masonry, Unprotected.
construction type
The building materials and ratings of structural items in that classification would
(chapter 6 IBC)
be equivalent to Type II-B in the 2015 IBC.
fire sprinklers Partial coverage
summary of code compliance/life safety
The Police Station is presumed to have complied with the building code as adopted by Wisconsin at the time the
original building was constructed. Furthermore, the 1992 addition of the 2nd floor would have been required to bring
most elements up to code at that time (1992) as part of the renovation. Similarly, if a future modification or
renovation is undertaken, any items/areas modified or updated would need to be brought into compliance with the
current code. Additional modifications may be triggered, depending on the scope of work. Careful review of code
should be done prior to any renovation project to identify other mandated upgrades.
egress and safety
The wall separating the office from garage occupancies was noted as a 4-hour wall on the 1992 drawings, however
only one of the doors in that wall retains a UL label indicating a compliant (3-hour) rated door and frame. Current
code requires a 3-hour separation between the garage occupancy of H-2 Hazardous and the Business or S-1
Storage occupancies of the remainder of the building. There is no requirement for separation between Business
and Storage occupancies.
The generator is currently housed behind chain link fence within the repair garage. It is presumed to be compliant
with the code at the time it was installed. If the generator were to be replaced, it would have to comply with current
code, which required it to be housed in a separate, 2-hour rated room. If such an enclosure is provided in the
current location, an egress study should be conducted to ensure legal egress is provided to both the generator
room and the hazardous storage room.
Due to the location of the unenclosed generator in the repair garage, and its proximity to the hazardous
storage room, it is recommended that the 4-hour separation between Business and S-1 Storage be
maintained at this time.
Two legal means of egress are provided from all areas of the building except for SWAT team storage (see below).
An elevator provides access to floors other than the entry level.
Some corridors are reduced in width by the placement of casework and boxes in the corridor for additional storage.
These areas appear to all provide minimum width for an accessible route, but combustible boxes should be
relocated. One room, a secure evidence storage room in the basement, had an access route from an adjacent
room that did not meet accessible width requirements. That room was provided with an additional egress-only
door, so presumably it could be opened for legal access if necessary.
2022 Page 15
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Code & Accessibility
Several locations in the building have coded security systems to gain access. No situations were observed where
an occupant would have to enter a security code to egress, thus these arrangements are code compliant.
Two IT rooms in the building, one in the basement and one on 2nd floor, were full of spare equipment and boxes in
addition to the functioning equipment. The rooms should be cleaned to provide a clear path of egress for
occupants of the room.
The mezzanine area of the SWAT Team’s storage room is accessed via a ship’s ladder from the lower storage area
and a very narrow passage around HVAC equipment on the mezzanine level. Neither of these routes comply with
current code, however it is assumed that the ship’s ladder complied with code at the time of construction. A gate at
the top of this stair is padlocked to prevent occupants from entering the space.
stairs, ramps and shafts
There are stair shafts at the north and south sides of the office area. The shaft at the south side has doors with
closers and latching hardware. Some UL labels are present on frames and doors, indicating compliance with the
required 1-hour rating. Not all doors and frames are labeled.
The stair at the north side of the office does not have latching hardware at the basement level, as would be
required for a 1-hour rated shaft.
There is a stair from the garage up to the mezzanine and 2nd floor, through the 4-hour rated separation wall. The
door is metal. Neither the door nor frame have the UL rating label to confirm that it is a 3-hour rated opening (the
requirement in a 4-hour wall).
handrails and guardrails
Stair handrail heights are lower than current code minimums but are assumed to have complied with code at the
time of construction. Handrail extensions at office areas comply with code. There are no handrail extensions
beyond the bottom riser at the stairs from the garage to the mezzanine. This does not comply with current code,
but is presumed to be compliant with the code at the time it was installed.
summary of accessibility/ADA compliance
ADA standards
The Americans with Disabilities Act establishes an additional level of requirements on public and commercial
facilities in terms of accessibility. Unlike a building code, it is a federal law which requires continual compliance,
regardless of when a building was built. Accessibility items noted in this report fall under this category and should
thus be addressed in a timely manner.
accessible route
An accessible parking stall is provided in the lot to the south of the building, and entry is at-grade.
Travel within the building is generally accessible. An elevator serves all except the mezzanine, which is not
required to be accessible.
The turning space in the route into the 2nd floor toilet rooms is too narrow to comply with clear floor space
requirements for door access and route.
doors
The building has a combination of push/pull hardware and knob handles. The knobs require simultaneous grabbing
and twisting to operate. Knobs are not accessible, and not as easy/fast to use as lever handles. Secure locking
devices are located above the forward or side reach accessible height of 48”.
The door to the men’s locker room was previously identified as having a thumb-turn locking system mounted
above accessible height. Both the thumb-turn and the height are non-accessible.
Two doors in basement locker rooms to the saunas were previously identified as too narrow for legal means of
egress.
2022 Page 16
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Code & Accessibility
casework
Most casework appears to be at accessible height. Counters in break rooms are within forward or side reach
ranges, and alternate height tables are available for staff use.
plumbing fixtures
Sinks in casework counters in breakrooms are at 36” above floor. Since there are no stoves/cooking ranges in the
room, no forward-reach sink is required. Most lavatories in the building are at or below 34”, and most provide
adequate knee clearance as well. The lavatories in the women’s locker room are at 34 ¾” rim height.
Most lavatories in the building are at or below the allowable accessible height of 34”. Lavatory rims in the Women’s
locker room are at 34 ¾” rim height.
Men’s locker room provides only gang shower area with lipped entry. No accessible shower is available.
No toilets in the building have fully compliant clear floor space and grab bars.
Drinking fountain spout heights vary from 34 ½” to 39” height through the building. ADA calls for 36” maximum
spout height (with required approach clearances) for seated persons, and 38” to 43” for standing persons. All of the
drinking fountains will comply with one or the other of these standards.
grab bars
Typical grab bar configuration at toilet stalls in the building is a single connected bar that extends in an L-shape
along the back and side walls of the toilet. Some of these provide the required extension length at both back and
side. The Women’s locker room provides an accessible shower stall, the men’s does not. The following are some of
the situations in which grab bars or fixtures are in non-compliance:
• Men’s locker room does not provide an accessible toilet.
• Men’s locker room does not provide an accessible shower.
• 1st floor staff toilet rooms do not provide grab bars.
• 1st floor men’s staff toilet does not provide accessible turning radius in the room.
• Two of the 6 toilet rooms on 2nd floor do not provide grab bars.
• Other 2nd floor toilet rooms do not provide grab bars of adequate length at back or sides. Some rooms do
not have adequate space to provide compliant grab bars.
The 2015 IBC references ICC/ANSI A117.1-2009, which calls for an additional vertical grab bar at the sides of toilets
which the ADA guidelines do not include. As this is a code issue, not an ADA compliance issue, the toilet rooms
would not be required to have the vertical grab bar if they were compliant at the time of their construction, however
it is recommended.
2022 Page 17
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Code & Accessibility
legend
Deficient – Critical Priority – High Priority –
Fair – Compliant/
Immediate Replace Replace New Not Applicable
D Replacement CP in 1-2 years HP in 3-5 years F Replace C Adequate N NA
in 6-10 years
architectural elements grade budget cost notes comments
Code compliance / Life safety
No-cost options. See notes
Egress and safety HP CA1
below.
Stairs, ramps and shafts F CA2
Complied with code at time of
Handrails/guardrails F
installation.
accessibility / ADA compliance
Routes to other 2nd floor toilets
Accessible route F
are accessible.
New hardware could range from
Doors F CA3
$300 to $1,500 per door.
Casework C
plumbing fixtures
Showers HP $8,000 – $10,000 CA4
Sinks/lavatories C
$4,000 – $6,000 Toilet in Men’s Locker Room
Toilets/urinals HP CA5 and
$12,000 – $15,000 Accessible 1st floor toilet
Drinking fountains C CA6
Grab bars F CA7
notes:
CA1. Maintain separation between garage and office functions. Plan to place generator in a two-hour rated room
in the future. Until it or the space is modified, it is presumed compliant with code when it was installed.
Recommend removing padlock from SWAT Team mezzanine or eliminating all usage of the space.
CA2. Provide code-compliant latching hardware at basement north stair doors.
CA3. Recommend replacing knobs and other non-compliant hardware on an incremental basis. Lever handles
would comply with accessibility codes and facilitate ease of use. Lever handles are code requirement for any
new or renovated work.
CA4. Provide accessible shower in men’s locker room.
CA5. Provide accessible toilet in men’s locker room. Recommend providing one accessible, single-user toilet on
the first-floor level to be used by either staff or other persons in need of accessibility.
CA6. Provide drinking cups at minimum one drinking water location (break room sinks or drinking fountains) per
floor.
CA7. Recommend providing vertical grab bars to current toilet stalls and rooms for improved accessibility.
2022 Page 18
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Code & Accessibility
Basement IT room – needs egress route 2nd floor IT room – improve egress route
SWAT Team storage mezz – no legal egress Non-legal access route to mezzanine storage area
Lack of handrail extension Missing latch at north stair door
2022 Page 19
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Code & Accessibility
Knob hardware – not accessible Accessible parking stall
Women’s Locker Rm. Lav – above 34” height Eliminate combustible storage in corridor
No accessible shower – men’s Accessible shower – women’s
2022 Page 20
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Code & Accessibility
1st Floor: not accessible toilet room Route into 2nd floor toilets lacks clear floor space
Toilet with grab bars, but lacking clear floor space Toilet stall accessible, but room is not
(See photo above)
2022 Page 21
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Structural
structural system
summary
The structure consists of steel roof deck and open web steel joist/joist-girders supported by exterior load-bearing
masonry walls and interior steel columns, all constructed over the original one-story cast-in-place concrete frame,
slabs, beams, basement, load-bearing masonry walls, and shallow foundation system.
legend
Deficient – Critical Priority – High Priority –
Fair – Compliant/
Immediate Replace Replace New Not Applicable
D Replacement CP in 1-2 years HP in 3-5 years F Replace C Adequate N NA
in 6-10 years
budget
structural elements grade notes comments
cost
1968 - Original Building (R.W. Surplice-Job 2564)
year
1992 - Addition (Somerville Assoc. Project 3072)
structure type
Cast-in-place concrete foundation/basement
Foundations C walls bearing on individual spread or continuous
strip footings.
Concrete slab on grade with wire mesh
Basement C
reinforcing.
10” cast-in-place concrete two-way flat slab with
capitals supported on concrete columns and
basement walls typical. One bay of 16” +4”
First floor C concrete joist-slab on west end and one bay of
10” concrete one-way solid slab to the east.
Vehicle maintenance garage on the far east end
is concrete slab on grade.
10” cast-in-place concrete two-way flat slab with
capitals supported on concrete columns typical.
Second floor (original
C One bay of 16”+4” concrete joist-slab on west end
roof)
and a garage mezzanine of 10” concrete one-way
solid slab to the east.
1. Office - 1 ½” 22-gauge steel roof deck
and open web steel joists/joist girders
supported by exterior load-bearing
masonry walls and interior steel wide
flange columns.
Roof C
2. Vehicle maintenance garage – Light-
weight precast concrete decking/key-
stone joist system supported on load-
bearing masonry walls and concrete
frame.
building risk category NA Risk Category: IV
Construction Type II-B (2-hour beams, columns,
construction type NA
floor slabs, 0-hour roof)
2022 Page 22
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Structural
budget
structural elements grade notes comments
cost
vertical expandability NA None.
typical column
NA
spacing
overall structural The existing building is structurally sound with no
C
condition significant deficiencies noted.
notes:
S1. There is minor shrinkage cracking in the slab on grade in the garage area. The cracking is not as cause
for structural concern and no remedial action is recommended at this time.
Roof structure at garage bay Concrete column, typical
Roof structure at garage bay Roof bearing at office/garage supporting wall
2022 Page 23
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Structural
2nd floor plan structure as seen from garage Cracked slab at garage (Note S1)
Concrete roof purlins at garage Lintels at garage door openings
2022 Page 24
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Plumbing
plumbing systems
summary
Police Department building was constructed in approximately 1969 and remodeled in 1992. The original piping is in
fair condition. Glass fiber insulation on the water piping helps to conserve energy, but the insulation is missing in
several areas. Insulation from 1969 probably contains asbestos. The building is served by a water heater on second
floor. A thermal mixing valve(s) (TMV) should be added to the hot water systems and hot water temperature
adjusted to 110° Fahrenheit. Eyewash in the garage should have a TMV installed. Eyewash requires tempered
water. These are code issues that should be corrected.
There is a sanitary pipe installed over the evidence dryers in the basement. It would be advisable to install a drain
trough below the piping to protect the equipment from potential leaks.
The building has some accessible ADA toilet rooms. Some of the areas would need modifications to make the toilet
rooms fully compliable (i.e., flush valve on the wrong side, install safety covers etc.).
Building is served by interior storm drainage – roof drains. No secondary roof drainage installed. Most of the roof
has a spill-off roof edge. Roof over the entrance has a single roof drain, no secondary drainage.
First and second floor plumbing fixtures discharge by gravity. Basement fixture(s) are pumped to grade. Basement
has drain tile installed around the perimeter.
Parking lots are served by interior storm drainage (i.e., catch basins).
legend
Deficient – Critical Priority – High Priority – Fair –
Compliant/
D Immediate CP Replace HP Replace F Replace C Adequate N New N/A Not Applicable
Replacement in 1-2 years in 3-5 years in 6-10 years
budget
plumbing systems grade notes comments
cost
Water piping condition F P1 Copper piping
Sanitary piping condition F P2 Cast iron, no-hub connection
Storm/clearwater piping F P3 Pump discharge - galvanized
Valves F P4 Ball valve(s)
Domestic water service C P5 4” water service
Insulation C P6 Glass fiber, elastomeric insulation
See
Code issues D P7 Add TMV at water heater & eyewash
TMV’s
equipment
Domestic water heater HP $3,000 P8 AO Smith, gas-fired heater
Recirculation pump F P9 B&G pump
Water softener NA No water softener installed
Thermal mixing valve (TMV) D $8,000 P10 Add TMV’s (code issue)
Grease interceptor NA No grease interceptor required.
2022 Page 25
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Plumbing
budget
plumbing systems grade notes comments
cost
Kitchen equipment F P11
Plumbing fixtures F $5,000 P12
Oxygen storage NA
Backflow prevention D $5,000 P13 Install RPZ backflow preventer
“Shop” air compressor F P14 Snap-On vertical tank
Laundry equipment NA
Drain tile sump/pump F P15 Duplex submersible, PVC piping
Sanitary sump/pumps F P16 Submersible, cast iron piping
Elevator sump/pump F P17 Simplex submersible
Maintenance garage F P18 Trench drain, garage catch basin
exterior
Storm drainage, roof drainage HP $8,000 P19 Roof drain(s)
Lawn irrigation NA
Utilities F P20
notes:
P1. Water piping is mainly copper, soldered joints. Fair condition. Some galvanized piping at the water meter.
Some PEX piping also installed. Most of the piping is insulated.
P2. Original sanitary waste/vent is cast iron hub & spigot. 1992 piping is cast iron, no-hub connections. Pump
discharge is cast iron. Piping is in fair condition.
P3. Building storm is picked up by interior roof drainage. Downspouts discharge underground to storm sewer.
Pump discharge piping for the Clearwater pump(s) is black PVC, glue connections.
P4. Ball valves on the water piping.
P5. Building is served by a 4” water main – combined for fire protection and domestic water. Domestic water is a
2” main (verify) with 3-valve bypass around the meter set.
P6. Water piping is insulated with glass fiber and elastomeric insulation. 1969 insulation probably contains
asbestos and needs verification. No insulation on the storm piping is causing condensation on the piping and
is resulting in ceiling tiles being stained.
P7. Code issues: water temperature is set higher than the allowed 110-115º F per code, recorded at 132º F at the
forensics faucet. No thermostatic mixing valve (TMV) at the heater. Add TMV per code and adjust
temperature to 110-115º F maximum.
P8. Water heater is a single gas fired, AO Smith model BTR-365 series 118, 365,000 BTU/HR, 85 gallon with
atmospheric gas venting. No expansion tank installed.
Recommendation: add expansion tank at the water heater.
P9. Hot water recirculating pump is installed at the water heater. Building is separated into a west and an east
zone with HWR piping balanced at the pump.
2022 Page 26
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Plumbing
P10. Add thermostatic mixing valve (TMV) to the water heater. Set hot water temperature to 110° F maximum
temperature. No TMV is a code issue.
P11. Kitchen/Breakroom equipment: two compartment sink(s). No garbage disposal or dishwasher.
P12. Plumbing fixtures: Most of the fixtures are ADA-compliant. WCs are floor mounted or wall-hung with flush
valves. Lavatories are vitreous china set in the countertop and wall-hung, lever handle faucets. No safety
covers installed. Urinals are wall-hung with flush valves (regular and ADA height). The 1969 urinals are floor
mounted with door activated flushing. Showers are built-up. One ADA shower in the women’s toilet rooms.
Group shower in the men’s toilet room with one floor drain. Shower should technically have multiple floor
drains, as water is not allowed to flow from one user to another. Single unit Elkay electric water cooler(s)
installed throughout the building in varying heights. Kitchen/breakroom sink(s) are stainless steel double
compartment – no garbage disposal. Garage has several cold-water service faucets with hose thread
vacuum breaker connections. Non-freeze sill faucets installed on the perimeter of the building. Basement
sink by the gun range is a recent installation. Waste is pumped overhead by a small pump basin unit on the
floor.
Recommendation: add safety covers to the p-trap and water supplies at ADA lavatories.
P13. There is a Watts 9D inline backflow in the boiler room for the HVAC boilers. Boiler feed should be an RPZ
backflow preventer. Faucets with hose connection ends have a threaded hose end vacuum breaker installed.
There is a 3/4" RPZ backflow preventer installed in the garage wash bay at the power washer.
P14. Snap-On Vertical tank, “shop” air compressor installed in the garage.
P15. Drain tile/clear water pumps are duplex submersible 1 1/2” discharge. Pumps serve the building drain tile
system around the basement. High water alarm could be installed.
P16. Sewage pumps are submersible 3” discharge. Pumps serve the basement toilet rooms and floor drains. High
water alarm could be installed.
P17. Elevator pump is simplex, submersible. Located in closet adjacent to the elevator. High water alarm could be
installed.
P18. Maintenance garage has trench drain(s) and catch basins installed. No evident oil separators installed. There
is also a wash bay, overhead sprayer with a power washer.
P19. Building roof pitches to interior roof drain(s), served by 4” piping. “Secondary” roof drainage is the spill-off
roof edge. Canopy roof over the entrance has one interior roof drain and no secondary scupper relief
drainage. Parking lots are picked up by interior storm catch basins.
Recommendation: add secondary drainage to the entrance canopy.
P20. Utilities are routed from Adams Street and/or Stuart Street. Building is served from a 4” water main. Multiple
4” sanitary and storm sewers serve the building.
2022 Page 27
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Plumbing
Pump discharge – sanitary piping Sanitary vent piping
Sanitary piping Storm piping
Water & sanitary piping Storm piping
2022 Page 28
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Police Department
Plumbing
Sanitary piping over evidence dryers Water meter
Water heater HWR Recirculation pump
Breakroom sink Breakroom coffee sink
2022 Page 29
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Plumbing
Breakroom coffee sink Men’s toilet room
Lavatory – men’s Men’s toilet room
Single toilet room Single toilet room
2022 Page 30
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Plumbing
Unisex toilet room Unisex toilet room
Men’s toilet room – urinals Men’s toilet room lavatories
Women’s ADA shower Men’s shower room
2022 Page 31
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Plumbing
Sink in gun range Electric water cooler
Electric water cooler – lobby Electric water cooler
Janitor’s sink at wash bay Evidence sink
2022 Page 32
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Police Department
Plumbing
Sink, EWC & eyewash in garage Shop air compressor
Sump, duplex pumps Elevator sump/pump
Sanitary sump/pump Sill faucet, roof drain
2022 Page 33
Police Station
Police Department
Plumbing
Non-freeze sill faucet Garage trench drain
Garage catch basin RPZ backflow preventer
Vehicle wash arm Roof drain(s)
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Plumbing
Roof drain(s) Roof drain(s), sanitary vent
Roof Drain, Sanitary Vent Entrance Roof (No secondary drainage)
Parking Lot – East Parking Lot – South
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Plumbing
Parking Lot – South Garage catch basin vent
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HVAC Systems
HVAC systems
summary
The building was constructed in 1969 and underwent a major addition and remodeling project in 1992. Some minor
office renovations and ventilation upgrade projects have been completed in the last 10 years.
The office area is served by three modular air units, installed during the 1992 project. The units are located in a
second-floor mechanical mezzanine above the garage. One air unit is dedicated to each floor of the building. A
fourth unit located in the mechanical mezzanine originally served the firing range and is abandoned, replaced in
2010 with a packaged roof top air unit. A fifth air unit, a roof top air unit, is dedicated to the training room area.
The three main air units are variable air volume type, with hot water and chilled water coils. The building, in general,
utilizes plenum return air spaces above the ceiling. There are a few areas where the returns are ducted. The
ceilings are discolored near the air unit return openings due to dust build-up which indicates air movement through
the ceiling tile. The chiller system serving the air units was replaced in 2011.
Exhaust ventilation for toilet rooms, janitor closets and other miscellaneous spaces is served by a variety of power
roof ventilators and ceiling exhaust fans. The fans vary in age, size, and condition as they have been installed and
replaced during the various remodeling projects.
The garage ventilation consists of two gas-fired make-up air units and multiple exhaust fans. One make-up air unit
does not function and the other is not capable of providing adequate heat or ventilation. Gas fired heaters have
been installed to attempt to maintain space temperature through winter, but the space is still described as “cold” in
the winter months. The units are time clock operated and there is no gas detection system.
A hot water boiler system is in the second-floor mechanical room was replaced in 2022. Hot water is distributed to
fin tube radiation, reheat coils, and cabinet heaters throughout the office building.
The controls are primarily pneumatic with a few newer (within 5 years) components utilizing low voltage DDC
controls. An air compressor is in the second-floor mechanical room.
legend
Deficient – Critical Priority – High Priority – Fair –
Compliant/
D Immediate CP Replace HP Replace F Replace C Adequate N New N/A Not Applicable
Replacement in 1-2 years in 3-5 years in 6-10 years
budget
hvac systems grade notes comments
cost
Air Units – office area, three total H1 Installed 1992.
Showing signs of 30 years of operation.
Housing CP $435,000 H1
Minor rust.
Air intake C Roof hood
Coils HP Hot water, chilled water.
(2) 10,000 CFM-10HP, (1) 8,000 CFM-
Fan HP
7.5HP
Filters F
Controls HP
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HVAC Systems
budget
hvac systems grade notes comments
cost
Original except where replaced during
Ductwork F
projects.
Insulation HP $8,000 H1
AHU discharge temperature set at 60º F.
Some VAV zones do not have reheat
Occupied space thermal comfort HP $170,000 H1 coils. VAV units are up to 30 years old-
poor modulation. Boiler off in summer
months. Lots of complaints.
chiller H2 Installed 2010
Housing C 100-ton air cooled scroll with R-410A
Appear original to 1992 addition.
Pumps HP $5,000 H2
252GPM@50FT, 5HP-Lead/Lag
Insulation has failed at one pump (or
Insulation CP $1,500 H2 pump is leaking). Condensation on pump
and across floor.
Air Unit-training room H3 Installed 2011
Not positioned as designed. It is too
Housing D $2,500 H3
close to roof edge. Provide rail.
Air Intake C
Condensing unit C
Fan C 2,400 CFM, 2HP
Filters C 30%
Controls C Low voltage
Ductwork C
Insulation C Duct liner
Staff did not report issues like other
Occupied space thermal comfort C areas but did indicate that when room is
fully occupied, it can overheat.
Air Unit-firing range H4 Installed 2010
Housing C
Air intake C
Heat C Gas-fired heat
Fan C 100% outside air
Filters C 30%
Controls C Low voltage
Ductwork C
Insulation C
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HVAC Systems
budget
hvac systems grade notes comments
cost
Occupied space thermal comfort C No cooling. No complaints indicated.
data room cooling units H5
Leibert units-DX and water cooled.
Housing HP $30,000 Humidifier on basement unit. Ages vary.
Budget is a single unit starting point.
One unit too close to roof edge. Provide
Condensing units D $2,500 H5
rail.
exhaust fans H6
Multiple power roof ventilators. Ages and
Toilet/locker room exhaust F condition vary. Ceiling fan in single fixture
toilet rooms – light switch operated.
Mostly original. Minimal replacement
during renovation projects. Lint/dust is
Exhaust ductwork HP $16,000 H6
coating the grilles and ductwork.
Recommend cleaning and rebalance.
boiler system H7
Boilers N H7 Replaced 2022
B&G .5 HP primary
Pumps HP $15,000 H7 B&G 5 HP lead/lag secondary pumps
175GPM@70 feet
Mostly original to the 1992 project.
Piping C Revised during renovation projects.
Mix of copper and steel.
Pipe insulation C
Convectors, VAV, cabinet heaters. Some
Room terminal units HP $15,000 H7 fin tube radiation installed at floor,
restricting air movement through devices.
Mechanical room ventilation F H8 Hot room, limited/no ventilation
controls
Air compressor C Duplex, 3HP
Original pneumatics. Replace with low
Room control F H9
voltage DDC during mechanical projects
garage ventilation
One unit has failed. The other does not
Make-up air unit D $140,000 H10
keep up. Supplemental heaters installed.
Some fans have failed. Exhaust openings
Exhaust D $40,000 H10
not positioned correctly.
Control D $20,000 H10 Time clocks. No gas detection.
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HVAC Systems
notes:
H1. These units are original to the 1992 project. Units are 30 years old with an expected useful life of 25 years
depending on maintenance and operation of the unit. Overall, the units have been maintained well but are
showing signs of age and continuing to rust. The coils appear to be in fair condition, however most
deterioration occurs from the inside out and won’t be visible until leaks occur. The unit grade is mainly
based on the unit’s age and expected useful life. The estimated replacement cost assumes many factors,
including ability for extended unit outage during construction, and combining of multiple units into one. The
actual cost could widely vary depending on the project specifics.
The units are indoor modular units with hot water heating coil, chilled water-cooling coil and VAV control.
The supply ducts are lined. Duct liner erodes over time, and this will lead to system inefficiency and
condensation which will damage building material. It is recommended to seal the ductwork and install duct
wrap insulation during renovation projects.
Low voltage DDC actuation/controls is being phased in as budgets allow. When the units are replaced, it is
recommended to provide all new DDC controls as this will allow for more in-depth monitoring and remote
monitoring.
The occupants had many thermal complaints. The 1992 project installed reheat coils on the perimeter
rooms only, along with fin tube radiation. The interior rooms only allowed for VAV modulation. As the VAV
devices have set minimum air flows, this leads to overcooling of some interior spaces. To compensate for
the overcooling the air unit discharge temperature has been set at 60º F. Supply air temperature was not
verified on this evaluation visit, but the building operation seemed consistent with past facility visits. The
original design was 55º F. The increased discharge temperature has less ability to dehumidify which is why
the building feels “clammy or sticky”. The boilers are turned off in the summer, which does not allow for the
VAV system to utilize their reheat ability to maintain individual thermal control. It is recommended to install
reheat coils on all VAV terminals serving occupied spaces, replace poorly functioning VAV terminals, lower
the discharge temperature to 55º F and operate the boilers year-round.
H2. The chiller was replaced in 2010. No system complaints relayed by staff. Insulation is damaged at the
chilled water pump. Recommend repair to the insulation to prevent condensation and further deterioration
of the insulation and piping. The insulation prevented inspection of the pump seals to determine if the
water was condensation from the damaged insulation or if the pump itself was starting to leak and causing
the insulation damage.
H3. Air unit was replaced in 2011 and is dedicated to the training room area. Staff indicated that when the
training room is fully occupied with “70 people” the room can overheat. The high occupancy rate is not the
normal occupancy. The unit is located too close to the roof edge. It was designed to be at least 10 feet
away. Recommend guard rail for protection of maintenance staff. No changes are believed to have been
made since the last evaluation.
H4. The firing range air unit and exhaust fan were replaced in 2010. The exhaust air is filtered at the roof
exhaust fan. The make-up air unit is a gas fired roof top unit. The unit is 100% outside air.
H5. Multiple Leibert cooling units dedicated to multiple data rooms. The units vary in age but, in general have a
fair physical condition. However, seven years have passed since the original evaluation and some of the
units will soon reach the end of their expected useful life. Budgeting $25,000 to $30,000 per unit is
recommended. The units appear to be keeping up with the cooling load. The basement data room was not
sealed well during the last building evaluation. Sealing of the room will improve the unit’s ability to maintain
temperature and humidity as more data equipment is added to the room. One of the roof mounted
condensing units is located too close to the edge of the building. A guard rail for maintenance staff
protection is recommended.
H6. The office building exhaust system is served by multiple roof mounted fans and ceiling mounted fans. The
ages and conditions vary greatly as the units have been installed during various projects. One fan near the
mail room is extremely noisy for 15 years. Dust and lint build-up is prevalent at many of the locker and toilet
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HVAC Systems
room grilles. Air flow within these spaces appears diminished and can be attributed to older ductwork
combined with the dirtying of the systems. Duct cleaning, taping and sealing, and air balancing are
recommended.
H7. The boilers were replaced in 2022 as one unit failed last year (near the end of the expected useful life).
The primary circulation pumps were replaced. The secondary (building) pumps appear to be original to the
1992 construction project. A motor on the left pump has been replaced.
Some of the fin tube radiation units are located too close to the floor which will restrict their ability to
provide heat. To improve the units heating ability it is recommended to raise the radiation devices at least
4” above the floor.
H8. The boiler replacement project installed sealed combustion boilers which has removed the deficient
location of the air intake. When the boilers operated previously the room would be warm/hot. This will not
change and likely the room will be hotter than before. A ventilation fan project is recommended to aid in
maintaining a lower room temperature as high room temperatures will shorten the life span of electronic
equipment installed in the space.
H9. The air compressor serving the buildings pneumatic controls appears to operate sufficiently. As systems
are replaced, low voltage DDC controls are recommended for installation as this will allow greater
monitoring of the system.
H10. The garage is currently served by two gas fired make-up air units and multiple exhaust fans and these
were off during the site evaluation. One make-up air unit has failed and the other cannot ventilate and heat
the space properly. Gas heaters were installed to attempt to maintain space comfort. The garage is
described as hot in the summer and cold in the winter. A failed exhaust fan was due to be replaced but it is
unknown if the work is completed. The system operates on a timeclock to provide ventilation when the
space is occupied. There is no gas detection system. The exhaust locations are at the floor which allows
them to be easily blocked with stored items. Raising the exhaust slightly will allow removal of contaminants
without restricting the air flow.
The space is used for auto repair and storage, so it does not neatly fall into one code category. Based on
actual space use, the recommendation is to define the space as an enclosed garage. An enclosed garage
has specific exhaust code requirements, and the garage is required to have a negative pressure in relation
to the occupied space. A garage exhaust system may operate continuously, operating at a minimum level
when the garage is unoccupied and operating at a maximum level when the garage is occupied, or a
vehicle is started. Alternately a garage exhaust system may operate intermittently if it meets four specific
code provisions including the installation of a gas detection system. The current system does not meet the
ventilation requirements for an enclosed garage. A garage ventilation upgrade project to install radiant
heaters, make-up air units, exhaust fans, and control system with gas detection, is necessary to improve
garage ventilation and occupant safety. The recommendation is to operate the system continuously with
increased ventilation during the occupied period.
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HVAC Systems
Air unit (typical) Air unit (typical)
Firing range air unit Training room air unit
Power roof ventilators (typical) Interior exhaust fans (noisy)
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HVAC Systems
Firing range exhaust Chiller
Leibert unit (floor mounted example) Makeshift room ventilation unit
Typical ceiling exhaust fan Boilers
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HVAC Systems
Hot water pumps Chilled water pumps
Gas meter Temperature control air compressor
Firearm cleaning exhaust hood Firing range control panel
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HVAC Systems
Electric heat at stairs and toilets Fin tube (installed at floor)
Air unit VFD’s (boiler units similar) Garage control panel
Garage exhaust (near ceiling) Generator louver
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HVAC Systems
Garage make-up air unit Garage exhaust vent (behind storage)
Garage exhaust vent (typical) Fuel tank vents
Hazardous storage room (vented tanks) Garage storage exhaust fan (old)
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Electrical
electrical systems
summary
The building is served by a 1600 Amp, 120/208 Volt, three-phase electrical service. The original panels are in fair
condition; the panels added in the 1992 renovation are in good condition. The newer panels have capacity for
future load. The emergency generator serving the building is in fair condition. The emergency electrical system is
fed from a single transfer switch which serves a main distribution panel to feed emergency panels throughout the
building. The equipment is in fair condition and has some future capacity. An additional transfer switch and panel
board is recommended to separate the non-life safety loads from the life safety loads. Storage is currently blocking
the code required 3-feet for electrical clearance for panels located in the main server room.
There are numerous outlets around the building that need to be GFCI protected. Lighting fixtures are in fair to good
condition and utilize T8 lamps and ballasts, incandescent and compact fluorescent lamps. There are several
fixtures with broken, miscolored or missing lenses. These should be replaced or repaired. There are a few
occupancy sensors located in office areas, but the facility should install occupancy sensors in all offices, meeting
rooms, break room, storage rooms and janitor’s closets. HID building mounted fixtures are in fair condition;
consideration should be given to replacing the HID fixtures with more efficient and lower maintenance LED fixtures
in the future. The parking lot lighting and flagpole lighting have been upgraded to LED.
The server equipment is in good condition and the facility is pulling Cat 5 and Cat 6 data and voice cabling from
data racks on each floor and coax for CATV. The fire alarm system is a zoned system with smoke detectors, pull
stations, and notification devices located around the building. Coverage does not comply with current code; a new
addressable fire alarm system upgrade is recommended with additional devices provided to meet code.
legend
Deficient – Critical Priority – High Priority – Fair –
Compliant/
D Immediate CP Replace HP Replace F Replace C Adequate N New N/A Not Applicable
Replacement in 1-2 years in 3-5 years in 6-10 years
budget
electrical systems grade notes comments
cost
normal power distribution equipment
Pad mounted utility transformer serves
1600 Amp underground electrical utility
Utility service entrance C
service and feeds main service
equipment in the 2nd floor mezzanine.
normal power distribution equipment
600 Amp GE Power Panel in good
Main distribution panel C
condition with some future capacity.
Original GE NLTG panels in fair
condition and 1992 renovation GE A-
Branch panels F E1
Series panels in good condition. Panels
have future capacity.
emergency power distribution equipment
200 KW Onan natural gas generator
Generator F E2 located in the vehicle garage, in fair
condition.
Transfer switch HP $25,000 E3 Onan 800 Amp ATS in fair condition.
800 Amp GE Power Panel in good
Main distribution panel HP $10,000 E3
condition with some future capacity.
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Electrical
budget
electrical systems grade notes comments
cost
Original GE NLTG panels in fair
condition and 1992 renovation GE A-
Branch panels HP $25,000 E3
Series panels in good condition. Panels
have future capacity.
power
Garage outlets and outlets within 6’ of
sinks, and outlet in elevator equipment
Receptacles D $1,500 E4 room needs to be GFCI. Plug strips are
being used in locker rooms for
charging devices.
lighting
Industrial fixtures and surface mounted
Garage C wraps with T-8 lamps in good
condition.
Recessed acrylic lens and parabolic
louver troffers, surface wraps with T-8
Office spaces, conference rooms,
C lamps, and incandescent downlights
gun range, and corridors
and track heads. Fixtures are in good to
fair condition.
Recessed troffers and surface mounted
wraps in good condition. Men’s shower
Toilet rooms F $1,000 E5, E6
and sauna have incandescent lamps
(sauna fixture is missing lens).
Industrial strips and surface mounted
wraps with T-8 lamps, (some fixtures
Mechanical spaces, storage rooms,
F $3,000 E5, E6 have broken lenses) and ceramic
utility areas
sockets with incandescent and
compact fluorescent lamps.
Exterior lighting C $3,000 E7 Building lights are HID, poles are LED.
lighting controls
Offices, conference rooms, break
HP $6,000 E8 Add occupancy sensors.
room
Toilet rooms/small storage rooms HP $1,500 E8 Add occupancy sensors.
emergency egress lighting and exit signs
Fixtures connected to emergency
Corridors C
panels.
Exit signs C LED type in good to fair condition.
fire alarm
Simplex 4002 zoned system in fair
condition, coverage does not meet
Zoned system F $50,000 E9
code. Some pull stations are not ADA
compliant for mounting height.
telecommunications
UPS’s protecting the telecom equipment.
Data/voice/CATV C
Cat 5, Cat 6 and coax cabling.
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Electrical
notes:
E1. Code required 3-feet for electrical clearance and clear space above the equipment is not being maintained in
server room.
E2. When the generator is replaced in the future, it will need to be located within a dedicated electrical room with
appropriate floor, ceiling, and wall fire-rated construction.
E3. Recommend providing an additional automatic transfer switch and a new distribution panel to separate the
non-life safety loads from the life safety loads. Additional branch panels would be needed to transfer circuits
from existing panels that have mixed loads.
E4. Replace all outlets located in the garage area with GFCI type device. Replace existing outlets within 6-ft of
sinks with GFCI type device unless they are currently protected from a nearby GFCI outlet. If this is the case,
the outlet should be labeled per NEC requirements. The elevator equipment room receptacle needs to be
GFCI.
E5. Replace incandescent lamps with compact fluorescent or LED type for energy savings.
E6. Consideration should be given to replacing older fixtures with new. Replacement or repair should be done
on fixtures with broken or missing lenses.
E7. Consider replacing all HID fixtures with more efficient LED in the future.
E8. Occupancy sensors should be installed in the meeting room, conference rooms, offices, storage rooms, and
janitor’s closets, etc. to provide additional energy savings. If areas are renovated, controls will be required to
be updated to meet current energy code.
E9. Recommend upgrading the fire alarm system to an addressable system with device locations that meet
current code requirements.
Main electrical service meter Utility transformer
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Electrical
Main electrical equipment Main fused switchboard
Surge suppressor Normal main distribution panel
Generator Automatic transfer switch
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Electrical
EM main distribution panel 1992 renovation panel
Original panel Generator annunciator panel
Basement data rack 1st floor data rack
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Electrical
2nd floor data rack UPS
Exit sign 1st floor corridor lighting
Office lighting Office lighting
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Electrical
Basement Lighting Garage lighting
Stairwell lighting Sauna light missing lens
Fire alarm horn/strobe Non-ADA height of pull station
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Electrical
HID wall pack light LED pole light
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