Finance Committee

REPORT OF THE FINANCE COMMITTEE DECEMBER 21, 2011 A meeting of the Finance Committee was held on Wednesday, December 21, 2011 at 6:30 p.m. in the Aldermanic Chamber. Mayor Donnalee Lozeau presided. Members of the Committee present: Alderman-at-Large David W. Deane, Vice Chair Alderman-at-Large Ben Clemons Alderman-at-Large Barbara Pressly Alderman Paul M. Chasse, Jr. Members not in Attendance: Alderman Kathy Vitale Alderman Arthur T. Craffey, Jr. Also in Attendance: Alderman Richard A. Dowd Alderman June M. Caron Alderman-at-large Mark S. Cookson (arrived after the roll was taken) Alderman-at-Large Brian S. McCarthy (arrived after the roll was taken) Alderman Clemons Alderman Vitale is away with family. Mayor Lozeau Also Alderman Craffey called to let me know that he has a family medical emergency, and he is not able to be here this evening. PUBLIC COMMENT Mayor Lozeau It appears that there are members from the public here tonight. It would be a stretch for me to decide what they are here about this evening. Let me just take a moment to let you know that I understand that you are likely here on the Broad Street Parkway this evening. The microphone is right there. I just wanted to let you know that the responsibility of the finance committee is not to stop or proceed with the Broad Street Parkway. What’s on our agenda this evening and what our attention is on is whether or not we follow the proper procurement procedures and things like that for the contract. We’re speaking specifically to a contract. So I will give a little bit of leeway, but I just wanted you to understand what the role of this committee is. Frederick W. Sheldon, 7 Grand Avenue, Nashua I have been here since the mid ‘90s. I live near where the proposed bridge and parkway is going to come through. Just as a measure for the whole thing, I’m against it. I’m not sure that I see a need for coming down this far Amherst Street and then cutting across and cutting through a beautiful part of our history. Thank you. Mayor Lozeau You are welcome. Finance – 12/21/11 Page 2 Robin A. Peters, 54 Walnut Street I also work in Ward 4 at 11 Ledge Street. Just a little preface, I did write a book about Nashua history so I am talking about that tonight. You as a board are going to be asked to vote for an additional $1.5 million of Nashua taxpayer money to continue to fund the Broad Street Parkway. I know there are many decisions when undertaking a project of such grand magnitude so I ask you are you completely informed of this project, and I know it is sort of rhetorical, and I’m going to say that no one really is probably completely informed of this project so I’m here tonight to reference such things, which I believe need immediately attention. Most significantly is the lack of transparency, public inclusion and approval, lack of historical perspective and consideration in the design phase of this project. This entire board should vote no. I’m overwhelmingly disappointed with the current set of destructive decisions made in order to get this road gangbusted through the legalities and into production. The contract tonight is asking for $1.5 million for Option II of what is called the final decision of the Broad Street Parkway. How ladies and gentlemen can you award a contract for over $1.5 million of taxpayer money for a moot design? Some of you may know that my family still owns the mill #2 of storehouse. I don’t know how you can approve a final design when my family’s building and several other properties have not been purchased by the City. In fact no further money should be put into this project until we have a route that is in complete acquisition by the City. Option II is not only a lie, it is by far the greatest destructional atrocity that the City has ever seen, and as a historian I am talking from 10,000 years of my research. This Nashua project should be called Nashua’s big dig. Approving any more money into the Broad Street Parkway is a giant mistake. This entire board and the Board of Aldermen should vote no. This project in its current state is full of errors, holes, shortcuts, uninformed decisions, and as mentioned before a lack of transparency, public inclusion and approval, and lack of historical perspective. The Nashua Manufacturing Company is the company that built this city literally from the ground up. The architecture of the storehouse is irreplaceable in Nashua history. Storehouse #2 is on the National Register of Historic Places and should be protected not destroyed. It was built in 1851. It is 160 years old, and this brick that I’m holding was made by local ancestors of all of us in Merrimack and in Bedford with earth from here. It is very rare and it is very special. I don’t want to bore you, but listen closely, the building adds great value to this Millyard and destroying the building and others including potentially the chimney, which I’ve heard is up for a potential destruction movement, the DFC buildings, the Pine Street option pathway is the wrong pathway. Sixty million dollars including interest of Nashua taxpayer money to destroy irreplaceable national treasures. Option II is wrong, it is wrong, it is wrong, it is wrong. Experts in Nashua history were not included in this preparation of this option, the Nashua Historical Society was not asked to come in and speak to the historical relevance of the buildings that are being up for destruction. There was an outside group that was hired, but their survey was never completed, and that was never put in front of all of you. You didn’t know. You didn’t know, I don’t blame you for not knowing, but you need to know now. The value of the Millyard is unequivocally in the buildings that are there. If you destroy the Millyard buildings you are destroying the value of the Millyard. A provision should be added to save these buildings, save the Nashua Manufacturing Company historical district. This is what built this city and destroying it at your hands is the mark that you will leave this city forever. I look at the walls of this room and I see the Mayors and things that they did, and when I think that we want to destroy what made this city great, it breaks my heart. Thank you. Finance – 12/21/11 Page 3 Mayor Lozeau Is there further comment from members of the public? Mr. Daly you weren’t here when I mentioned that I’m allowing a little bit of latitude, but the Finance Committee’s role tonight is strictly on the contract and the associated whether or not the money has been budgeted properly and whether or not the procurement process was proper. Geoff Daly, 48 Walden Pond Drive Good evening. I have followed just recently what has been going on and I have looked at the extra money you are requesting for a redesign on an already proven four way highway. It is rather like the situation that occurred up at the Bedford tolls going to the airport; some engineer said oh we can’t put a tollbooth there. We had the same situation here in Nashua where they said oh we can’t put a tollbooth just above Spit Brook Road. There was no public input. And we are talking about the same thing here. I know I attended your meeting at the …audio inaudible … and to all intents and purposes it made sense, but now I see not only the destruction but the extra money that is being requested to fund more engineering. We have very capable people within our city who I am sure would step forward and take the existing plans and review them at a much less cost than we are talking about. Now as far as what the previous speaker said, that is another aspect that was never covered. Half the reports that you have utilized to ask us for this expenditure were never included in that October, 2010 report. There are four buildings physically left out of the report ascertaining the historical value. Can we do something other than knock them down? That was never addressed, they were never valued, they were never included, and yet here we are going to spend the money. I agree we need a parkway but do we need a parkway thrust through with a lot of expenditure without looking at the total effect it will have upon the city and the city’s image? Now I have also spoken with the people doing the demolition for the Boiler House and Mr. Alan Manoian has asked and requested that certain aspects of that be preserved. That is money we are throwing away. That is historical money that can never ever be replaced, and yet we are going to spend money redesigning and re-engineering something that we have already paid for. We paid for a four lane highway, why don’t we just make it a two- lane highway on the existing land? I’m sorry to say there were certain committee members who had a deep interest in the land that will be left for development by the city and that is self interested and is not right. Any person who has land development capabilities should not sit on any committee or be involved in any decision for the expenditure of any money, and if you want me to name the persons it was Mr. Manoukian and Mr. Stabile. I’m sorry, those people and anybody else who was… Mayor Lozeau Mr. Daly… Geoff Daly …involved in any… Mayor Lozeau Mr. Daly… Finance – 12/21/11 Page 4 Geoff Daly …decision making Mayor… Mayor Lozeau Mr. Daly just a moment. I don’t know what committee you are referring to, but… Geoff Daly It is in the report. Mayor Lozeau …they are not on the committee of the people that made a decision… Geoff Daly Yes. Mayor Lozeau …okay. Geoff Daly This is the addendum to the 2010 report… Mayor Lozeau Okay. Geoff Daly It is in one of the pages of the 400 and something odd pages that are in that report. No one who has any interest in any property or anything like that or will benefit from a decision to re-engineer anything in the City should be allowed to sit on any committee. They should be totally independent. I agree we’ve got to have a parkway, but I don’t think we need to expend the money that you are asking for. I think we should back off a little bit and I think you should reach out to other people within the city and ask them if they will offer their services. And you know I have offered my services for free in certain areas and kept you informed on certain things, and I feel it is a duty of the citizens of this city to do that. It is a lot of money, it is an awful lot of money, and it is a last minute thing as well. I don’t think we can afford, as a city, to destroy something that could possibly be saved by rethinking what the original plan was. Thank you. Mayor Lozeau Is there further comment by member of the public? Representative Lisa Scontsas, 24 Courtland Street From day 1 I have opposed the Broad Street Parkway. I’m not sure my recollection is correct, but I thought the citizens of the city voted against the parkway at one point and the parkway is back. I don’t understand how you are spending more taxpayers’ money and asking for $1.5 million more in times that are so tough with property values going up. We all know the State has put a lot of burdens back on the cities. It is a lot Finance – 12/21/11 Page 5 of money to be asking for expansion for something Nashua doesn’t need at this time, and not only that we don’t need it, you are touching historical property, property that will always be part of Nashua, but you are going to take it away. I am asking this Finance Committee to think financially for the people that put you in your seats and think about your taxpayers that are going to end up paying for this that they don’t need. Thank you for your time and Merry Christmas to all of you. Mayor Lozeau Comments from the public complete? Thank you. COMMUNICATIONS From: Robert Gabriel, Purchasing Manager Re: Contract Award for Project Management Services (Value: $75,000) MOTION BY ALDERMAN CLEMONS TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND AUTHORIZE EXTENDING THE CONTRACT WITH PROJECT RESOURCE GROUP IN THE AMOUNT OF $75,000. FUNDS ARE AVAILABLE IN ACCOUNT NUMBER 757-53140 ON THE QUESTION Alderman Pressly Thank you. Has this group been doing this already and this is just an extension of what they are doing? Mayor Lozeau Yes. Alderman Pressly I don’t understand how it can come out of the funds designated for one item and then distributed across the others. Mayor Lozeau It isn’t. What you see tonight and the reason that it is citing the garage is because that is the first piece of work that we anticipate to be done under the new contract. Each project has funds attributed to it that it comes from. We have one bond for $4.5 million plus the cash that we had when we began, and those monies are attributed to different projects. Right now there is going to be an amount that is likely to come out of some of the parking garage, but it is one account. It is one fund and it gets broken into accounts just for accounting purposes. It is one pot of money. Alderman Pressly It seems sort of complicated. The things that I looked at that they are going to be doing I would have thought that they had already finished some of them. It is a work in progress is that it? Finance – 12/21/11 Page 6 Mayor Lozeau Right. They is still work that is ongoing. We haven’t completed the garages, City Hall is being commissioned right now, the Hunt Building is close to being completed. There is a lot of things that are still happening. Alderman Pressly How do we as a Board of Aldermen get an update on the different projects and the status of them? Mayor Lozeau You got the report from this gentleman two weeks ago. Every 6 months you get a status report on each project. Alderman Pressly Could it come in more frequently …audio inaudible… Mayor Lozeau We talk about them from time to time. Happy to give you more information when you ask me for it. Alderman Pressly Okay. Mayor Lozeau Is there further discussion? Alderman Deane So I am correct to assume there is additional five digit commodity codes under this 757 bond? Mayor Lozeau There are. Alderman Deane The scope of work can be found on page 2 of 3? Mayor Lozeau Yes. Alderman Deane Would be commissioning them to do an assessment on the facilities as stated in paragraph 4? Mayor Lozeau The facility condition assessment is we’re trying to, and…. Finance – 12/21/11 Page 7 Alderman Deane It says the group is prepared to assist. Is that part of this contract. Mayor Lozeau Yes. Alderman Deane And several other areas where opportunities to benefit the city may exist? Mayor Lozeau Exactly. Alderman Deane And that is part of this contract? Mayor Lozeau Yes it is. Alderman Deane Thank you. Mayor Lozeau You are welcome. Alderman Pressly What is the status of the garages? Mayor Lozeau About 95% complete. This week they have been out there trying to finish some of the final work, which is sealing around the windows in the stairwells. Is there further discussion? MOTION CARRIED From: Robert Gabriel, Purchasing Manager Re: Contract Award for Final Design of the Broad Street Parkway (Value: $1,527,044) MOTION BY ALDERMAN CLEMONS TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND AWARD THE CONTRACT TO FAY SPOFFORD & THORNDIKE IN AN AMOUNT NOT-TO-EXCEED $1,527,044. SOURCE OF FUNDING IS ACCOUNT NUMBER 753-3740 Finance – 12/21/11 Page 8 ON THE QUESTION Alderman Chasse You know that I have never voted for anything for the Broad Street Parkway and I have a couple of questions. If this does not pass tonight will it be tabled in this committee? Mayor Lozeau If it doesn’t pass tonight I’m assume that we will probably send it to the full board with no recommendation. Alderman Chasse And if it doesn’t pass at the full board you will bring it in again next year? Mayor Lozeau If it doesn’t pass by the full board will we bring it in again next year, was that the question? Alderman Chasse Yes. Under the new board, after the new board is sworn in. Mayor Lozeau I would assume so. I mean if we’re moving forward. That opens up a whole significant other discussion surrounding the money that has been spent to date. Just to be clear, this is not additional money, this is part of the city bond already planned and budgeted for out of the $37 million from the city taxpayers. Alderman Chasse Which I did not vote for. Mayor Lozeau Right. That is correct. Alderman Chasse Like I say, if the Broad Street Parkway is going to be built then I keep on voting no, but if it is going to be built I said at the beginning now is the time to put the four lanes where the water is, don’t wait 10-20 years down the road, we’re going to pay big dollars and you’re going to give the next generation a bigger bill because construction at this time is better than 20-40 years down the road. I’m kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place on this one. Thank you. Alderman Pressly Thank you. As you know Madam Mayor and the members of the committee, the few times we have had the chance to speak with people on this project I ask about the chimney. The reason I ask about that, that is the one thing that they promised would remain for historic reasons and for the landscape and the protection of the Millyard. It turns out it is the first thing they started to take down. I have been struggling with that and I think I’ve decided, although all of this was decided before I took office and I felt an obligation to make it the best, I think we really do have to stop and take a look and see if we couldn’t improve it. Finance – 12/21/11 Page 9 We’ve just done that with, what was it that Jefferson project. We voted. Remember we had to rush it through, we had to buy this land because we needed that and low and behold somebody has come up with a better plan and so we are reversing ourselves. I think there is a possibility that we could find a better way to save some of these buildings and make the Millyard the focal point. The irony, the only reason given to day to have this parkway is to have access and open up the Millyard, but in the same step we are destroying it. I would like to see some major changes and I don’t think it hurts at all after 40+ years to say wait a minute. I think we have agreed we are committed to have a parkway, but why don’t we see if there isn’t a creative way to save some of these buildings and make the Millyard the historic highlight that it should be? I know some of the members think that a lot of these buildings are pretty scruffy and pretty ugly, well a lot of them are, but if you look at the Lowell Millyard that is what those buildings looked like originally too. Also a lot of the value is in the function that they fulfilled at the time. I have tried to go through as best I could this whole report and I would like to know, it references on page 2, the city’s program management team, and I would like to know who is on that management team that they are going to be meeting with. Mayor Lozeau City staff from the Department of Public Works. Alderman Pressly And could you read off the names of the people that are on that so we could… Mayor Lozeau Let’s see if I can think of them off the top of my head; it is the Director of Public Works, Lisa Fauteux, the City Engineer, Steve Dookran, Jon Vancour from HIS who has been working with us, and then from time to time I’m sure the director has other city staff involved. Then we have a management team that I have that meets on a regular basis, which includes a member of the Board of Aldermen. Right now it is Alderman Jeff Cox, it is myself, it is the people that I listed and in addition it is also our Economic Development Director, our Community Development Director, our City Attorney, our City Treasurer, somebody from the finance staff that works with us on the budget. The first team that I mentioned meets on a regular basis weekly. The other team meets monthly unless there is something else that comes up. Alderman Pressly May I ask a further question? Mayor Lozeau Certainly. Alderman Pressly Would you consider putting let’s say a citizen on there, somebody that represents the public and particularly maybe someone in the mill…I think the big concern I have at this point is the Millyard, some private citizen so that you have some input that is not part of the city staff, that you have a person, a citizen. Finance – 12/21/11 Page 10 Mayor Lozeau I understand. I consider myself a citizen, and elected citizen on behalf of the people that we represent. But I actually wouldn’t consider that. We have spent a significant amount of time, contrary to what has been said, and I’m working on putting something together to be able to quantify it for everybody. We have spent a considerable amount of time getting people’s feedback for many years. I first learned of the Broad Street Parkway in 1985 as a State Representative. It was introduced to me by then Mayor Donchess and the Chamber of Commerce endorsing the plan. I have been made well aware of it since that time. Many steps have occurred since then. People in the Millyard have been involved. I know that Ms. Peters is starting to be involved now, but her family has been met with and talked to for many years; each year since I have been here. We have had discussions and meetings with them about their building, about the surrounding property, about property we own, property that they own. We have met with all of the owners of the property in the Millyard and will continue to do that. People should have a role in this and they have had opportunity for that. I don’t have all of that information with me this evening. As I said we’re concentrating tonight on the contract. But also Alderman Pressly seeing as I’m speaking to some of this right now, I don’t know who you refer to when you say they promised you that the chimney would stay, and I will certainly give you a chance to respond to that, but when I looked at the chimney, I told you as a Nashua citizen that I would like to see the chimney stay. My family worked in those mills too, I’m a third generation native, it is important to me. When we looked at the chimney, the way to keep it was to make sure that it was structurally sound. We had to do that. The bricks that have come down from the top of that chimney were an effort not to take down the chimney, but to protect it because they were loose and dangerous not only as a public safety issue but also to the structure of that chimney, especially when considering we were looking at demoing the Boiler House and so the vibrations and other things could have been very destructive. We have had two engineers provide us with reports telling us that there are problems. I have provided that to the Board of Aldermen as you know. And we are now trying to find out what other options we may have to try to keep that chimney. So to leave an impression that we said we wanted to keep it and the first thing we are doing is taking it down, I don’t think is a fair way to characterize what has actually occurred. Alderman Pressly Well I believe it is the first physical change that has taken place there. My impression is that what they are telling us now that it will not survive, they could have determined that earlier. And I know from the plans that I’ve seen the chimney is probably the key historic symbol for the whole Millyard. Until I get some sort of satisfaction that a real genuine effort has been made to protect that or to save it, even if it is a little bit shorter, I could accept that, but until I get some assurance that that historic structure is going to remain there, I don’t see…I sort of agree with Alderman Chasse, I don’t see how I can support this until we take a better look at it. I have some other questions along in here if you will bare with me a moment. On page 3, it talks about the railroad property. Any change on that? Have you been able to … Mayor Lozeau We have been having discussions with them, meetings are ongoing. Alderman Pressly Okay. I’ve asked that at every meeting too. Finance – 12/21/11 Page 11 Mayor Lozeau I know, and I…Alderman Pressly just like the chimney, all I can do is keep you informed about what our progress is. The chimney, I understand that you want to keep it, I have said I want to keep it. The first engineer said there is a problem, we went out for a second opinion. The second opinion said there is a problem. We went out again and said okay what are our options. That is where we are right now, what are our options, is there a way we can save it. I don’t think it gets any better than that. Alderman Pressly Well if the roadway weren’t coming right through there it wouldn’t be a problem, it would just stay. Mayor Lozeau Actually no it would be a problem. Alderman Pressly So you would have to… Mayor Lozeau Now that the City is aware of it, it is not structurally sound, that we have two engineer reports that there is a problem with the chimney, road or no road, we have to take some action. Alderman Pressly Well I think that information, which has surfaced in the last two years, that alone should be a cause to say let’s take a look at this and see…if you don’t have a general plan for the Millyard, that is the prize of our history. We wouldn’t be sitting in this room or in this location if it weren’t for the mills and to have such little regard for them. I went back and I read the minutes in 2009 when they took this vote for this new pathway. I could not find the word historic building or the fact that it was a historic site listed on the national register. They didn’t even mention it, which tells me when people voted for this in 2009, the current Board of Aldermen at that time, that they did not realize the amount of Nashua history. I appreciate the fact that you are a 3rd or 4th generation. I’m a 10th generation in New Hampshire so there are a lot of us who have been around a long time and care a lot about the state and the whole history of the state, and I think the fact that the millyards are the reason that Nashua is here, it is the thing we should be most proud of. To also learn that a lot of the things that are being torn down were also invented here; someone had mentioned maybe we should see if the Smithsonian would like some of the items inside the Boiler House because they were one of a kind, they were the type of thing, they were the state-of-the-art technology of the day, and they were made here, they were hand made here. If we don’t appreciate that, why do we want to open up the Millyard if in so doing we destroy it? Mayor Lozeau Alderman Pressly I would ask you not to, what is the right word I want to use, not to reflect on… Alderman Pressly Not to speak? Finance – 12/21/11 Page 12 Mayor Lozeau No. I don’t think there is a reason to be rude. Not to reflect on other people’s opinions or what they knew or they did not know when they made decisions that they made. I just don’t think that that is a fair thing to do. Alderman Pressly What I have said and I will repeat the word history… Mayor Lozeau I heard that. Alderman Pressly …there is not a single reference that anybody mentioned, the people that made the strongest case to do this appeared not to, they did not reference it in the minutes. Now maybe they had been thinking it, I can’t read people’s minds, but we keep minutes so that we know why people vote the way they do, and… Mayor Lozeau Do you have further questions? Alderman Pressly Yes I do. Mayor Lozeau Okay. Alderman Pressly On page 4, we have the word preferred concept alignment. Based on the preferred concept alignment provided by City FST…throughout this paperwork I have the impression that they’re fairly flexible, that they are open to new ideas, that they are open to some changes. I guess my problem is I fear we are locked into a plan that is not the best that it could be. They talk about public notification and historic resources. If my memory is correct the only public hearings that they had were not hearings at all they were public information, which are quite different. I know I have been to many of the information meetings that were held at the rest stop, and I have been to a lot of information meetings put on by regional planning, and I’ve never considered them to be consumer friendly. You don’t have a major presentation, you have all of these tables around with different maps on tables and everyone has to go and sort of seek out what they want to know. There is no general presentation, there are no records kept of how people feel about it… Mayor Lozeau Yes there are actually. Finance – 12/21/11 Page 13 Alderman Pressly I believe they usually have to write it down. They don’t ask the people there how they feel, they don’t take a vote. People have to, if they want to say something they have to write it out, and most people don’t do that and they don’t know how other folks feel. I would like to see, if we are going to proceed with this, maybe we could change some of the language in the… Mayor Lozeau I think Alderman Pressly we should probably find out what the will of the committee is on whether we are going to proceed before we get into changing language. This language that is in this contract is something that has been overseen, one of the things we have to remember here is that we have three entities that work here on this project; we have the Federal Highway Department, we have the State Department of Transportation, and we have the City. Each step of this process has to have oversight and agreement by the entities. We can’t just change words without going through discussion and process with all of them in order to be able to… Alderman Pressly Oh okay. Mayor Lozeau …use their funds… Alderman Pressly So we could not suggest amendments? What if we were… Mayor Lozeau I would be happy to take any of the information that you would like to suggest… Alderman Pressly What if we were to table it and ask them if they would…I’m wondering when it references the City I would like to know, I know it is not the Board of Aldermen because we rarely get information like this so the City is referenced throughout, and … Mayor Lozeau Because as you know Alderman Pressly and I’ve told you multiple times, the Board of Aldermen does not oversee this project, the Board of Public Works oversees the project… Alderman Pressly Oh I’m aware of that and that’s a… Mayor Lozeau Okay. Finance – 12/21/11 Page 14 Alderman Pressly …huge problem for me. Mayor Lozeau I understand. Alderman Pressly And I think we need to look into somehow getting better reports than we have been getting. Now the other thing, any possibility of underground utilities? Mayor Lozeau Not likely, but in some areas, we have been meeting with the utility companies about what we can do and where it might make sense to do some, and some in conjunction with work they have already had planned. Alderman Pressly Well like on page 8 it says comments from the city. Oh there is also one place in here where they are going to work with the Aldermanic Chamber. Let me see if I can find that. I was so hopeful when I saw that. I can’t find it at the moment, but one of their jobs was that they would interact with the Aldermanic Chamber, and I would like to certainly be able to know…I want more interaction with what is happening because I have not had it, and I have been on the two committees that I thought would. As far as transparency goes, I know I have felt it has been a struggle to get the information. I would like to know specifically how we as the Board of Aldermen can interface with these consultants and be more informed than we have been. Would it be possible that before all of these comments from the city are delivered to these consultants, could we as the governing board, the one that gives all of the money, could we have a look at them? Mayor Lozeau You can have a look at absolutely everything that we do. Alderman Pressly Well that hasn’t been the case these two years…. Mayor Lozeau I don’t know… Alderman Pressly …I have asked many many times. Mayor Lozeau What have you asked for? Finance – 12/21/11 Page 15 Alderman Pressly I have asked for different reports, we have asked for someone to come and talk to us. Mayor Lozeau I have put every report that I can think of in the last two years on the city website. We’re actually looking at it to try to make it a little more user friendly and to add additional information to it because it doesn’t have everything that I would like it to have. But if you ask for a specific report Alderman Pressly I will be happy to get it to you, even if it was before the last two years. Alderman Pressly You mentioned the website. I have heard people comment that this project goes back to ’68 and yet the website only references it to 2009. Would it be possible to get the complete history, staring in ’68, how this concept was put together and some sort of long-term history on how did we get to this point? Mayor Lozeau The concept actually I think started in the ‘40s and ‘50s but wasn’t called the Broad Street Parkway. Alderman Pressly No it was called something else. Mayor Lozeau Exactly. Alderman Pressly Part of our history. Mayor Lozeau I don’t know that I can go back to 1968, but what I can tell you is I think it is in everybody’s best interest to have all of the information that has been put together… Alderman Pressly I do too. Mayor Lozeau …I have tasked some of the staff with trying to put together a list of everything we have including a timeline of when things happened and to make the website easier for people to get information from, and whatever we can put together we will. It is a priority right now and we’re trying to get it done, but there are boxes and boxes and file cabinets of things that have long since been forgotten by people including how many meetings have taken place and every requirement from the Federal Government about public hearings and input before they made decisions and the role of the historic people, and everybody that has had a role in this, and the role of the city’s master plan in this, and other information that we have about historic structures and meetings with Historic District, the Department of Historic Resources… Finance – 12/21/11 Page 16 Alderman Pressly There have been meetings with the Historic Resource District? Mayor Lozeau There has been a meeting at the State Historic Resource Committee every month for it has to be over a year now if not longer; on their agenda, public meeting, held on a consistent basis. Alderman Pressly Well then to help us so that we can feel we are informed, can we start getting a calendar of what is taking place up at the State House so we could attend some of these ourselves? And also has the local Historic District Commission or the local Historical Society been every consulted on this? Mayor Lozeau I don’t know, but I will be happy to tell you when we collect all of the information. Alderman Pressly Okay. Mayor Lozeau Mr. Daly it is not time for public comment. You will have plenty of opportunity… Geoff Daly I just wanted to raise one issue. Mayor Lozeau …this will be coming up again. Mr. Daly… Geoff Daly You mentioned… Mayor Lozeau Mr. Daly… Geoff Daly …the master plan… Mayor Lozeau Mr. Daly, when we are done our business I will be happy to take a moment to speak to you… Geoff Daly This is relevant to this Mayor...I’m sorry… Finance – 12/21/11 Page 17 Mayor Lozeau No actually it is not relevant to this because this committee is dealing with… Geoff Daly The master plan you just talked about… Mayor Lozeau …the contract. Alderman Pressly are you all set? Alderman Pressly On page 17, explained to Mr. Daly there is a period of comment for you at the end of the meeting too so save… Geoff Daly Okay, alright. Alderman Pressly …so save it. Geoff Daly Apologize. Alderman Pressly On page 17, it references the public meetings; the City will handle all public meetings. I would like to have it really clarified about the public meetings because we had a public meeting recently that covered the Millyard and I happen to know that the people whose buildings were being demolished were not even notified about it… Mayor Lozeau Alderman Pressly… Alderman Pressly …and so I think we’ve got to improve… Mayor Lozeau Alderman Pressly that is not fair to say that…. Alderman Pressly …what we are doing. Pardon me? Finance – 12/21/11 Page 18 Mayor Lozeau That is not fair to say that. Alderman Pressly I think it is very fair. Mayor Lozeau The gentleman that you talked about whose building you say is being destroyed and you spoke to me after the meeting about it, Mr. Gauthier, his building is not being destroyed and he has been meeting with the City on a regular basis, and he knew about that meeting, and that meeting just so we are clear, was not a meeting about the Broad Street Parkway and reviewing it. That meeting was designed to talk about three particular parcels owned by the City and the role of the Board of Aldermen in determining the land use around those three parcels. That is what that meeting was supposed to be for. That is not how that meeting ended up, and so we will probably have to have another meeting to talk about land use around those properties that we own. It was not designed to be a meeting that included people about their property that way. Alderman Pressly Well that is what it appeared to be because that is what… Mayor Lozeau That is where it went when some of them were invited to come to the meeting, as you know. Alderman Pressly Were they formally invited by the City? Mayor Lozeau No, nor would they be formally invited by the City, it wasn’t regarding their property it was regarding three pieces of property that the City owned. That is what that meeting was supposed to be about. Alderman Pressly Well that is not what I heard then. Okay so anyway on page 17 since we are, the City is in charge of the public meetings, could the Board of Aldermen have some role to play in determining how those are going to be posted, making sure that the people that have an interest have the ability to come and that we keep good records of the meetings so… Mayor Lozeau We do keep good records of the meetings Alderman Pressly and we post the meetings the way that we are supposed to. Alderman Pressly Okay. Also on page 19, it says under impact to cultural historic resources, the City will lead the cultural resource review process and will be responsible for completing any agreements required and allowance is included in the…so again I think it is really important that we as the Board of Aldermen have the ability to be involved. I know you said we have nothing to do with it except pay for it, but quite frankly since we are Finance – 12/21/11 Page 19 responsible for this amount of a bond and this much of public funds I think, I know I would like to know much more than we have been able to learn in the last two years that I have been serving. On page 21, it talks about abutter coordination, and I don’t know how that has been carried out. I had the impression it hasn’t been. Oh one other thing that is really interesting; many times wonderful historic buildings for various reasons do have to be destroyed, and this is done throughout the country, even those listed on the national register, that in no way protects the building from being demolished. But the key to respecting a building that has some history is to have good records, take good pictures. And I have been told by two individuals that they had requested that they be allowed to go into the Boiler House and take some historic pictures for preservation and they were not notified. They were promised that they would be and they were not. These are people that have … Alderman Chasse Point of Order. Mayor Lozeau Certainly Alderman Chasse. Alderman Chasse What does pictures have to do with what we are going through here? We are looking to bond this thing. We’re not looking for pictures of the Boiler House. That is something of a totally different thing… Alderman Pressly Well. Alderman Chasse …I think we should be sticking to what is on the agenda… Alderman Pressly It has do with what is… Mayor Lozeau Alderman Pressly. Alderman Pressly Thank you. It has to do with what we are doing. We are taking down some major historic buildings and we have citizens that are in responsible positions that have asked if they could go inside the building before it is started and they were not notified and they were not given that opportunity, and I think that speaks, maybe that speaks very accurately to the way things have been handled. Mayor Lozeau Alderman Pressly I believe that they were not allowed to go in afterwards when it was determined that there were hazardous materials in the building. We have followed the requirements of the State Historic Resource Division, which I know you are very familiar with the staff there, and have recorded everything as they have asked us to as it relates to the buildings that we’re coming in contact with. Further? Finance – 12/21/11 Page 20 Alderman Pressly Could you give me a minute more here? Again on page 32, it says railroad coordination, is that the area that you are coordinating with PanAm? Mayor Lozeau Yes. We’re responsible for that. Alderman Pressly And I see that you have it broken up into again on page 34, they reference City information meetings or hearings, and again I would request that if we award this that we have hearings instead of information meetings because hearings just keep better records and have a better presentation. Again, here we have abutters meetings. I guess I don’t know that I could support this unless we have some idea of how we as the Board of Aldermen are going to access the information and what role can we as the Board of Aldermen play with this and would it be okay if we tabled this to ask for certain things and then have these people get back to us? Mayor Lozeau Alderman Pressly FTS is not going to respond to some of the general comments about how the City does its business. I think that is a discussion that we have to have with the board and what they want to see happen and the Board of Public Works and what they want to see happen and there are requirements that we are all trying to manage. And I understand that there are some people that do not support it and don’t want to move forward, and you will have your opportunity for that discussion I’m certain… Alderman Pressly Well I support the… Mayor Lozeau …there is no point to tabling… Alderman Pressly …Parkway, it is just I don’t support this pathway… Mayor Lozeau And you know that we have… Alderman Pressly …and it seems as though this… Mayor Lozeau …the Federal Record of Decision for this pathway, this Option II determination. Finance – 12/21/11 Page 21 Alderman Pressly Did the Board of Aldermen ever vote on that? Mayor Lozeau The Board of Aldermen took a vote for the bond in 2008. I believe Option I and II were discussed and Option II was determined to be the right road. I can’t recall off the top of my head right now whether that was in a board meeting or how that decision was rendered relevant to this path other than it was…you might even remember Alderman Clemons. Alderman Clemons Well if we had chosen Option I, we had chosen Option II based on the amount of the bond that was let out because that was supposed to cover Option II. If it had been determined that Option II was not going to be viable, then we would have had to decide at that point whether or not we wanted to put additional millions of dollars into that to do Option I. At that point or at some point along the way Option II became the viable choice and we were able to continue on with what we had already appropriated. Mayor Lozeau That sounds about right. Alderman Pressly Question regarding that; is Option II is that not the pathway that the City has already purchased a lot of properties even taken down many buildings… Mayor Lozeau No. Alderman Pressly …and is that not the one that… Mayor Lozeau No. The purchase of so many properties were done when the original path was a four lane road… Alderman Pressly Well but it still had a pathway. Did they consider the same pathway with one lane? Mayor Lozeau Alderman Pressly I don’t want us speculating tonight and trying to get into our memory banks. As I said we’re trying to put as much information as we can together. The responsibility of this committee tonight is to take a look at this and determine whether or not we are moving forward. The responsibility of this committee is whether the funds have been appropriated and whether the procurement process was correct. Some of you may vote against it regardless of that, I understand that, but I think having this discussion in this small group might not be best served. It may be better served with the full Board of Aldermen taking it up for discussion. Finance – 12/21/11 Page 22 Alderman Deane Thank you. I strongly disagree with your opinion of what you have stated the authority of this committee is… Mayor Lozeau I know you do. Alderman Deane …This isn’t Concord. Okay. We have more than just following procurement and budgeting processes when it comes to this. If we approve this, it is over. It is over. We have no authority at all according to the attorney upstairs. It is the Board of Public Works who by the way not one of them, not one of the four voted for this project. It was brought to the Board of Aldermen as allowed by Charter by the Mayor to override a decision of the Board of Public Works. That is what was done. If you approve this you are done. Mayor Lozeau You approve this it goes to the Board of Aldermen because it is over a million dollars. Is there further discussion? Alderman Deane I understand that Mayor. Mayor Lozeau Alderman Deane? Alderman Deane Thank you. I understand that. The Finance Committee has to take action on it. One way or another a motion has to be made. A motion has to be made to either accept it or reject it or send it to the Board of Aldermen. It just doesn’t go to the Board of Aldermen without a vote. Mayor Lozeau Is there further discussion? Alderman Cookson Thank you. I just had a very simple question I hope; within this contract the contract is between the City and FST. How is the City defined? I have heard different things this evening, and I would like to know how the City is defined. It is obviously not the Board of Aldermen. Who is the City? Mayor Lozeau The City is the Board of Alderman and the City is the Board of Public Works and the City is the Mayor, and I execute based on the authority of this board. This board in September of 2008 gave me the authority to move forward with this project. That is who it is. Finance – 12/21/11 Page 23 Alderman Cookson Okay so within the contract… Mayor Lozeau Further discussion Alderman Cookson? Alderman Cookson Sorry. Thank you. Within the contract when it states the City it could be any board or commission that is appropriate or it is the Board of Public Works, we agree on that right, you said this is out of the hands of… Mayor Lozeau I’ve not said… Alderman Cookson …I believe that you said it was under the authority of the Board of Public Works. Mayor Lozeau Based on the City Charter yes. Alderman Cookson Okay. So the Board of Public Works is appropriate. I thought it was a simple question and obviously the administration would be the signoff correct? Mayor Lozeau Yes. Alderman Cookson Okay, the Board of Public Works, administration, and what is the role of the Board of Aldermen within this contract where it says the City? Mayor Lozeau Who is the City in this contract? Alderman Cookson Yeah. Mayor Lozeau It is still the Board of Aldermen, it is still the Board of Public Works. This is a financial contract. Your question makes it easy for me to look foolish up here … Finance – 12/21/11 Page 24 Alderman Cookson …audio inaudible… Mayor Lozeau ,…trying to respond like I don’t know what I’m doing, and I get all of that, but every contract that we sign speaks to the City. I have defined this for you multiple times. I don’t know what else you want from me tonight so… Alderman Cookson When did you define this for me? Mayor Lozeau I just did when you asked it the first time… Alderman Pressly I asked it then. I don’t think you …audio inaudible… Mayor Lozeau You asked me just a few minutes ago. I told you, that the City is represented by the vote that it took in September of 2008. When you go through this specifically on the City in some instances it could be the City Engineer, in some instances it could be the Director of Public Works… Alderman Cookson That is what I was asking. Mayor Lozeau …okay… Alderman Cookson That is what the question was. Mayor Lozeau …does that work for you? Alderman Cookson It does. Mayor Lozeau Okay. Finance – 12/21/11 Page 25 Alderman Cookson I was just asking when it says the City within the contract who does it mean, and we have heard administration, Board of Public Works, Board of Aldermen, and I was just trying to understand are there other… Mayor Lozeau I would have to look at each and every one of them to determine in what instance it would be who. Alderman Cookson Alright. I was just trying to better understand how this contract was understood between the City and FST. Mayor Lozeau We usually manage at the right time… Alderman Cookson Alright. Mayor Lozeau Thank you. Alderman Pressly Thank you. I thought I heard the last speaker ask a different question. I thought I heard him say where does the Board of Aldermen come into play when it says City, and that to me is part of the crux of the problem. The Board of Aldermen is not involved in this project except to approve the money and the funds. Mayor Lozeau That is a pretty significant involvement. Alderman Pressly I’m not going to answer that question any longer so we’re going to go back to this. There is a motion on the floor. Is there further discussion about the motion that is on the floor? A Viva Voce Roll Call was taken on the motion which resulted as follows: Yea: Mayor Lozeau, Alderman Clemons 2 Nay: Alderman Deane, Alderman Pressly, Alderman Chasse 3 MOTION FAILED Mayor Lozeau Is there a further motion? MOTION BY ALDERMAN CLEMONS TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND MOVE FORWARD FOR A RECOMMENDATION OF THE ENTIRE BOARD OF ALDERMEN FOR THE CONTRACT WITH FAY SPOFFORD & THORNDIKE IN AN AMOUNT NOT-TO-EXCEED $1,527,044. SOURCE OF FUNDING IS ACCOUNT NUMBER 753-3740 Finance – 12/21/11 Page 26 ON THE QUESTION Mayor Lozeau Send it to the full board with no recommendation, in essence. Alderman Clemons Correct. Alderman Pressly Roll Call. May I speak to that? Mayor Lozeau Certainly. Alderman Pressly I would rather have it tabled for more information. This is an effort just to get more information and not to destroy the Parkway, but to take a moment, maybe a couple weeks, maybe a month, to see if there are other things that we can do for this. So, I would prefer to table for more information. So I will vote no for this in order to have it be tabled. Can a table override that? Alderman Clemons Can I speak? Can I speak? Mayor Lozeau Yes, you may speak, Alderman Clemons. Alderman Clemons Thank you. I would just like to state for the record that if this is tabled at this meeting, I will be making a motion at the full Board of Aldermen at the next meeting to take it from committee to take up the contract. Thank you. Mayor Lozeau I would also take a moment to speak to tabling. I’m concerned about this project being on budget and on time. That doesn’t mean that we rush through or we do anything like that. Certainly with a project that has taken over four years to come to fruition, I don’t think we’re rushing. As I said, the bond vote was in 2008. We’ve gone through a very deliberative process each of these times and spending more money and delaying something and having to deal with the Feds and the State and others every time we get off track with this project does not serve the taxpayers well either. So I would not support a tabling motion either. Alderman Pressly I would like to say that I am well aware that the Vice President of the Board would plan to suspend the rules and do what he just said he would do. That’s been a common practice of this Board of Aldermen. I would Finance – 12/21/11 Page 27 rather have him do that then to send it on without our having a chance to look at it. So, I prefer tabling for more information. Alderman Clemons The only reason I bring that up is because I feel strongly that this should go forward, but I also agree that the public should know ahead of time that I would be planning to do that and feel that if there’s somebody out there that would like to speak to it that they have the opportunity to know that I intend to do that at the next meeting. Therefore, they can come and speak at the public comment period on things that are expected to be acted upon. Thank you. Mayor Lozeau No further discussion, clerk will call the roll please. Alderman Clemons Just to clarify this is to. Mayor Lozeau The motion to send to the board without recommendation. Alderman Clemons Thank you. A Viva Voce Roll Call was taken on the motion which resulted as follows: Yea: Mayor Lozeau, Alderman Clemons, Alderman Chasse 3 Nay: Alderman Deane, Alderman Pressly 2 MOTION CARRIED From: Robert Gabriel, Purchasing Manager Re: Contract Award for CSO Screening & Disinfection Facility Preliminary Design (Value: $336,242) MOTION BY ALDERMAN CLEMONS TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND REMOVE THE STIPULATION WITH RESPECT TO THE PURCHASE OF 17 JACKSON STREET FROM THE CONTRACT PREVIOUSLY AWARDED TO HAZEN & SAWYER AT THE OCTOBER 19, 2011 FINANCE COMMITTEE MEETING ON THE QUESTION Mayor Lozeau The reason for this tonight is because, as you recall, we put a stipulation on this project making sure that we actually purchased the site in order to do this work. Now that we are taking the other approach, we should remove the stipulation having approved the contract. Finance – 12/21/11 Page 28 Alderman Pressly This is the item I was recalling where we rushed in to do this. We had to suspend the rules to do this and now we found a better way to do it. So, I’ll certainly be supporting this, but I think it’s an example of why it’s always good to take a deep breath and wait a month or two weeks. Mayor Lozeau Alderman Pressly, I can’t help but respond. We did not rush through this project. Jackson Street has been something that we’ve looked at for more than a year now. The other things that we looked at were just not available to us at the time. This new project, I agree with you, is a much better project. But there was no rush involved. I had asked it to be tabled when we were still looking at it. I was not able to attend that meeting. That didn’t happen and that’s why the rules were suspended to table at the last time. Further discussion? Alderman Pressly I’m happy to stand corrected. I had the impression that we had to suspend the rules to take action on this. If I’m in error, I apologize. Alderman Deane We did suspend the rules. Is there any talk about the reduction in the design cost because of the changes? Mayor Lozeau Actually… Alderman Deane Since they don’t have to, you know, most of the mechanical aspects are taken out of it. It’s just now a gravity flow system. It’s below the ground. Are they looking at some reduction in the design cost? Mayor Lozeau I don’t believe they are. You at the Board of Public Works meeting were able to hear a little bit more during that meeting when I had to step out, but what they’re really looking at is overall the operation costs of about a million dollars in the 20-year lifespan. It’s really what they are looking at. Alderman Deane There wasn’t a lot of discussion at the Board of Public Works meeting on this. Mayor Lozeau Okay. Alderman Deane Very little. I don’t think there was any as a matter of fact. Mayor Lozeau Well you repeated it at the last board meeting so I thought that was quite a bit. Finance – 12/21/11 Page 29 Alderman Deane Well, no. I had read through what was presented to us in our agendas. Mayor Lozeau Oh. Okay. Alderman Deane But as for discussion, there was not much. Mayor Lozeau Okay. Is there further discussion? MOTION CARRIED From: Robert Gabriel, Purchasing Manager Re: Contract Award for Plowing of Municipal Lots (Value: $27,400) MOTION BY ALDERMAN CLEMONS TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND AWARD THE CONTRACT TO THE DOTY GROUP IN AN AMOUNT NOT-TO-EXCEED $27,400. FUNDS ARE AVAILABLE IN ACCOUNT NUMBER 557-59160-6965 ON THE QUESTION Alderman Deane Who is this company? Is this Morin’s Landscaping? Mayor Lozeau No. Morin’s actually they were one of the last two that we were talking to, but they declined the work because they were too busy. This is a company that was offered a State bid, and they came highly recommended. Both companies; Morin’s and Doty. We looked at both of them, and moving forward with Dot has been the recommendation. Alderman Deane Are they going to be hauling excess snow out of there if we happen to have any snow this year? Mayor Lozeau No. We’ll likely continue the same way which has been our past practice, which is the private contractor does the plowing but any snow removal and hauling out typically is done by Public Works, the Streets Department and Park & Recreation. Alderman Deane And the contract is just for the winter months? Finance – 12/21/11 Page 30 Mayor Lozeau Yes. Alderman Deane Regardless of the amount of events? Mayor Lozeau It’s a not-to-exceed price of the $27,400. They are paid hourly so if this year we have less than 95 inches, we should spend less than this amount that’s here. Alderman Deane Thank you. Mayor Lozeau You are welcome. Is there further discussion? MOTION CARRIED From: Robert Gabriel, Purchasing Manager Re: Purchase of Recycling Carts Requested by Solid Waste Department (Value: $20,975) MOTION BY ALDERMAN CLEMONS TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND AWARD THE CONTRACT TO TOTER, INC. IN THE AMOUNT OF $20,975. SOURCE OF FUNDING IS ACCOUNT NUMBER 801- 64192-8100-8200 ON THE QUESTION Mayor Lozeau And you should know that on your memo, under the subject line, it should say purchase of trash carts, not recycling. Alderman Deane So it goes from recycling to trash. Mayor Lozeau We already did the recycling ones. Is there further discussion on this? MOTION CARRIED From: Robert Gabriel, Purchasing Manager Re: Contract Award for Corrective Action at Wastewater Treatment Facility (Value: $24,307) MOTION BY ALDERMAN CLEMONS TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND AWARD THE CONTRACT TO HAZEN & SAWYER IN THE AMOUNT OF $24,307. FUNDS ARE AVAILABLE IN ACCOUNT NUMBER 802-96004-8500-8900 Finance – 12/21/11 Page 31 ON THE QUESTION Alderman Deane I won’t be supporting this. This has to do with, you are familiar with the treatment plant where it drops into the river, this happens to be a little bit of foaming that occurs from the flow of the water, and we had some State Representative from Merrimack rowing his canoe I guess down the river and he was alarmed by it so that is what is driving this. Twenty four thousand dollars of our wastewater user fees, absolute waste of money. Mayor Lozeau I would just say that the reason that I’m supportive of this motion is because what we are trying to prevent is the EPA mandating that we put a diffuser on the system. Putting a diffuser on the system could cost us upwards of $5 million. This is an attempt to find some middle ground with the EPA. I would agree with Alderman Deane that this problem really should not be a problem. As a matter of fact the way you should define foam, this wouldn’t even qualify as foam because you can’t even hold it in your hand, but… Alderman Deane It is air bubbles. Mayor Lozeau …right, and I agree, but we have got to find some way to resolve this problem and have the EPA step away, and this seems like the best approach that we could take and it was something that they were willing to work with us to take this approach rather than mandating the diffuser, and really that is the only reason I’m heading this way because I agree that there isn’t a problem. But I also know and I think all of us know that there are times when there isn’t a problem, but somebody trumps us and they mandate that we do something and there are some people at the EPA that are not happy that we have done a separation of the entire system, and they look at this as an opportunity to make us do a little bit more than we do now. That is a bigger problem than spending this amount of money. Alderman Deane Well for those people who aren’t happy that we didn’t do total separation other than cost savings, if you look at what falls on our city streets, which mainly comes out of automobiles, would you want that falling back into the rivers? I think the rationale of thinking back when we looked at keeping the system combined and doing all of the treatment was the fact that there was a good chance the EPA was going to come say and by the way we realize you have done separation work, but you can’t put that in the river anymore. I haven’t had time, but I’m going to, I’m going to go to Merrimack to see what sort of foamy substance they have up at their treatment plant, and I’m going to contact somebody and make sure what is good for the goose is good for the gander. Mayor Lozeau That is okay with me. Alderman Deane Contact my State Representative to my Ward and ask her to contact the Environmental Protection Agency to make sure that Merrimack foam isn’t flowing into Nashua. Finance – 12/21/11 Page 32 Mayor Lozeau Is there further discussion on this item? MOTION CARRIED UNFINISHED BUSINESS MOTION BY ALDERMAN CLEMONS TO UNSEAL THE MINUTES OF THE NON-PUOBLIC SESSION OF THE FINANCE COMMITTEE MEETING HELD NOVEMBER 16, 2011 ON THE QUESTION Alderman Deane Why wasn’t it on the agenda under unfinished business? Mayor Lozeau I really don’t know Alderman Deane. Alderman Deane Who makes the agenda? Mayor Lozeau The Legislative Office usually in conjunction with me so I guess we could scold me for it, but you know… Alderman Deane I’m not scolding anybody. Mayor Lozeau Well I’m just. Alderman Deane Where will the minutes be posted or when will they be posted? After we… Mayor Lozeau As soon as the meeting is done I guess. However it works. Alderman Deane Just asking a simple question Mayor. Mayor Lozeau I know. Finance – 12/21/11 Page 33 Alderman Deane You don’t need to get … Mayor Lozeau Get what? Alderman Deane Upset. Mayor Lozeau I’m not upset. I’m just saying that there are so many questions you can answer. Alderman Deane So I will contact the Legislative Office and ask them A) if the minutes have been transcribed and B) when they are going to post them on the website. Mayor Lozeau I think that is fine… Alderman Deane I will make the phone call. That is good. Thank you very much. Mayor Lozeau You Alderman Deane have been on this board a lot longer than I have. I am sure you understand what the minute process is better than I do. I just know that I don’t post it. Alderman Deane You don’t what? Mayor Lozeau I don’t post it. Is there further discussion on this item? Alderman Deane Yeah. I think we have a lot of other non-public stuff that should be released that has been settled and there is no reason not to allow it to be out into the public so I’m going to go back and look at some of that stuff. I think we should release that to the public as well. Thank you for bringing this forward as requested. Mayor Lozeau As I told you I was going to bring it forward as soon as I knew that it was appropriate to bring forward, which I told you that evening when we sealed the minutes. We have unsealed them at the Board of Public Works and now we have unsealed them here. Is there further discussion? Finance – 12/21/11 Page 34 Alderman Deane Thank you. I appreciate your efforts in doing that. My position was there are other non-public sessions that the Finance Committee has held that no longer have any need for being locked away, so… Mayor Lozeau If you call those to my attention I will be happy to take a look. I know that if you are referring to some of them that had litigation involved or settlements involved we cannot unseal those minutes so keep that in mind when you are taking a review. Is there further discussion on this item? MOTION CARRIED NEW BUSINESS - None DISCUSSION Mayor Lozeau I just wanted to let the board know we have talked quite a bit about brush and some of the emergency pickup and the hiring of contractors to help out, I mentioned it at the board meeting and at the Finance Committee meeting. I’m going to distribute at the end of the meeting tonight a memo just giving you an early heads up that I am filing with the Clerk and the Board of Aldermen what has taken place and what those costs are and who we contracted with. Is there further discussion? Alderman Deane You had briefly talked about the FEMA money for the storm. Have we got any idea what the total dollar amount may be? It was like 75% of what our total cost was and I know you are still probably figuring that out because it is an ongoing process, there is still… Mayor Lozeau Total cost is probably close to $550,000 overall. Alderman Deane And when the monies come in it will roll back into the general fund, is that… Mayor Lozeau I anticipate that we will do the same thing that we did for the 2009 storm; so legislation will come in to accept the funds. I think we just did that for Irene too I think recently. Whichever ones we do, it comes in here and then we look at the funds going back to the respective departments where the funds came from and then additional funds would likely roll into the general fund. Alderman Deane Doesn’t that have a net affect on their operating budgets for next year though? Mayor Lozeau No it shouldn’t. Finance – 12/21/11 Page 35 Alderman Deane We are appropriating money into a three digit operating budget that has already been expended so we are replacing money that has been expended so we’re adding to the total dollar amount of the bottom line. Say there was a million dollars for overtime for the Park Department and they used $500,000 on the storm and the Federal Government gave us $250,000 say as reimbursement so we would have that $250,000 so you would add that $250,000 back in, well that would be added back in to what was approved through the operating budget, and it would show a bottom line of $1.25 million say. Mayor Lozeau It shouldn’t. Alderman Deane Well how do you add money to something that will not show up again… Mayor Lozeau Because it is not necessarily appropriated the way you are describing it, it is a reimbursement of funds that were spent for an unanticipated expense so. Using your example, the million dollars for Park & Recreation, is based on what we assume they are going to do in the normal course of business. If they have to use some of those funds in October that they would normally use in January and funds come in to reimburse those costs their bottom line is still the same. Alderman Deane But you have still spent more money than what was budgeted… Mayor Lozeau Alderman McCarthy is heading up this way because I ‘m sure that he can describe it differently maybe. I shouldn’t say I’m sure that he can describe it differently, but you might want to weigh in on it. Alderman McCarthy You may not like my answer because I think Alderman Deane is correct. If we take an advance of $250,000 against a million dollar budget then reimburse it and make all of the expenses that were anticipated in the million dollar budget, we have appropriated and spent $1,250,000. Two hundred and fifty thousand of it is not generated from taxes, but it still appears on the expense side of the ledger for that department. Mayor Lozeau I wouldn’t say whether I like or dislike it or who is right and who is wrong. What I’m interested in is making sure that the department is whole so that when January comes the funds are there to do what they need to do. If Alderman Deane is leaning towards does that change their base budget for the coming year, is that the underlying question? Alderman Deane Well no. A couple of things; it would require an appropriation that has to be made once the funds come in, and that has to be done legislatively, and then it does add to the bottom line of the approved operating budget because now you are changing it, which has other net effects through the Spending Cap and everything else. Finance – 12/21/11 Page 36 Mayor Lozeau When the legislation comes in I will be in a better position to explain the process that we are going to use, but we have done it since I have been here. We have accepted FEMA money on three separate occasions… Alderman Deane Well then I think we should… Mayor Lozeau …so however we have done it I would anticipate we will do it again. Alderman Deane Well if it wasn’t done correctly we don’t want to continue doing it that way that is just my point. Mayor Lozeau Well I wouldn’t disagree, but I can’t imagine that it wasn’t done correctly. Our accounting staff is top notch. Alderman Deane Mayor I’m not saying that. Mayor Lozeau I know you are not. Alderman Deane Well your comment kind of implied that. I’m not saying anybody is not doing…I just want to make sure that I understand and you understand and everyone understands how the process works. Mayor Lozeau I agree and we should. Alderman Deane Absolutely. Mayor Lozeau Alderman McCarthy do you want to add? Alderman McCarthy There are actually two different questions that we need to ask; one is what happens in current year expenses and do we need to approve an appropriation to expend that money either for the storm purpose or for the purpose of replacing where it came from in the first place. The second question is what is the Finance – 12/21/11 Page 37 base budget in next year’s budget based on; is it the appropriation that was initially given in the approved budget this year or is it that plus whatever adjustments were made during the year… Mayor Lozeau I agree. Alderman McCarthy …I would tend to think that if we go based on the approved budget as what we accept as the base budget for the following year, that at least eliminates the multi-year question and the only thing we have to worry about is what do we do to make it proper in the current year. Mayor Lozeau Right. Alderman McCarthy One suggestion there is that we could create a special revenue fund for those kinds of grant reimbursements and then expend them out of there. It would not be appropriations out of the current year’s budget nor would it carry over into the following year that way. Mayor Lozeau Actually Alderman McCarthy one of the things that we are looking at is whether or not we want an emergency fund so the Emergency Management Director is looking at that and speaking to different division directors about that and whether that makes some sense going forward for the next budget at the rate that we are going. Alderman McCarthy If we were to do that, once the money was in the fund I think what we would do is simply transfer the expenses that had been incurred to that fund and make the original budget of the department whole to what it was originally appropriated at. Mayor Lozeau I understand. As I said, we are having those discussions right now and I just wasn’t prepared tonight to speak specifically about the path of the process. I think we all agree on the same thing. We should accept the money so that we’re not out of pocket for them and we should determine where they go that whatever is appropriate should happen. Is there further discussion this evening? WARRANT MOTION BY ALDERMAN CLEMONS TO APPROVE WARRANT #11 IN THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF $14,708,335.39 OF WHICH $3,647,667.38 ARE ACCOUNTS PAYABLE, $5,305,957.61 ARE PAYROLL AMOUNTS, $152,381.21 ARE PREPAY AMOUNTS AND $5,602,329.19 ARE WIRE TRANSFERS MOTION CARRIED Finance – 12/21/11 Page 38 PUBLIC COMMENT Mayor Lozeau Mr. Daly now is your opportunity. Geoff Daly, 48 Walden Pond Drive Thank you Mayor. I apologize I thought we were allowed to talk during certain parts of what you are doing here. You mentioned the master plan Mayor. Fay, Spofford & Thorndike did all of the original design build engineering for the pathway that is on the master plan. It is noted in the minutes on the master plan. That master plan I understand was updated several years ago. Nothing has changed on that plan. Nothing is shown that you are putting in an alternative route. So someone has failed to keep the master plan for the City updated, and it is not just in that area, there are several other areas within the master plan that conflict like the CSO, that has not been updated. Again, we’re expending money with these people who have been paid to engineer something, now they are going to re-engineer it. A lot of the work they have already done they have been paid for. It was paid for a long time ago, and really from an engineering point of view, it is simpler for them to go back and redo it because they have more computerization. The master plan has the parkway marked on it. It is included as a map in the minutes and it is archived, and it hasn’t been updated. In the master plan it mentions nothing about demolishing the Boiler House. It doesn’t even mention anything about demolishing the NIMCO building. That was one of the largest blanket factories in the Northeast here, and it was going to be flattened in the original design. Here we are expending more money and we’re not going back and looking at the past minutes and checking on them. Alderman Pressly mentioned we can’t find anything earlier than 2009. Yes they may be in boxes, but they should be accessible. I have spoken with Justin of your I.T. Department. He said we are going to have to scan it all in. Again, go out to the residents of the City and say would somebody come in and help us scan these in on an evening or a weekend. Let’s get it up there on site. There is no Broad Street Parkway site on the City website. There is Pennichuck. I had to find your 2010 presentation under your own heading, your own office heading. And the last one you did a few weeks ago upstairs, it doesn’t appear in the little blurb off on the right hand side. We’ve got to consolidate so that we can find all of this information. Board of Public Works, I didn’t know that half of those meetings for the Broad Street Parkway took place in their facility, and it was only by chance through talking with Tom Galligani and Justin, they guided me through the maze of our website, was I able to find that Spofford did the original engineering work, and we’re going to give them the job again. Great, therefore they shouldn’t be charging us all of this money to re-engineer what they have already engineered. We’ve got to make sure that information is there. Otherwise, we are going to fall afoul ourselves again. Thank you. Mayor Lozeau Mr. Daly I think you heard me mention that I put the information on the website for the Broad Street Parkway when I got here because I was trying to make sure that people had all of that information. We made it a priority to try to put more information on there, as much as we can. The icon for the Broad Street Parkway is not on there. When I.T. put it up they put it up as a special project, but it is under the favorites, it comes up in the top 3 or 4 on the right hand side, but we will get better at it. We will get the work done. Robin did you want to address us again? Finance – 12/21/11 Page 39 Robin A. Peters, 54 Walnut Street Thank you. Mayor Lozeau You are welcome. Robin A. Peters Just really quickly, I’m going to try to go through some points and be concise. I won’t be here next week so I’m not going to have a chance to talk to the full board. I know there are some here as well. Maybe they might be able to go back and check what I did earlier. That is part of the public record correct? Mayor Lozeau Yes it is. Robin A. Peters Okay so maybe there is a video somewhere. Mayor Lozeau That too. Actually it is streaming live, it is on the computer. Any meeting can be picked up, you can put it on You-Tube. Robin A. Peters Awesome. I will be doing that. History is happy about this. I would like to speak a little bit about what Geoff just said as well and lack of transparency is a huge matter for me, and I’m going to speak from my notes and from my heart a little bit. One thing that you said earlier Mayor it just seems like we just keep kind of badgering you about this, is you said every report is on the City website, and about a week and a half ago I started looking for a document and it was not on the City website, and I made four phone calls to all of the four agencies that are supposed to have this document; it is the 2010 environmental reevaluation. It is about 500 pages. You are probably aware it is on the website now. This document is huge because this is the document that actually helped steer the Board of Aldermen to choose Option II. Now in this particular piece of documentation, there was no, I repeat there was no information listed on my family’s building as the historic relevance of how amazing this building actually is. I could quote from the document, and I might be able to do that in just a moment, I have to check my e-mail, but I really want to talk for a moment about Gate City Fence. We do still own the storehouse. This is where it is a little tricky because I was in the room at these meetings where representatives from the City came and one time I remember there was a great giant plan and that was Option I. What a wonderful picture that was to look at, and they were talking about how the City would like to maybe remove a piece of the other end, which at that point was okay we could make some concessions, and the City was going to make us some…buy it, give us some trade stuff, whatever, the deals, that kind of thing. That was the first thing that I remember. I’m not part owner, I don’t have any ownership in that building, but I’m very invested in that building because I work at Gate City Fence and I have interest in it. The next time the City came that I recall, they said well we kind of decided to maybe go and take the other end of the building and again my uncles, I truly believe to this day don’t know that you are actually going to take it by probably eminent domain because they still think that you are going to give them some money for this Finance – 12/21/11 Page 40 building or something. I truly believe that underneath all of this you just plan on just taking it, and that is what I want to stand up and say that is just so wrong. The City has taken property from my family for generations. The Urban Renewal Development Project that started in the ‘60s took my Grandparents’ house and then it went again and on Ledge Street took more of the road, and part of Gate City Fence was taken at that time. Gate City Fence has served this city for 57 years. Maybe it is not my position to stand up here and say all of these things about that because I don’t own the building and I’m not an owner of Gate City Fence, but why is this happening? I’m blown away at the destruction that is happening and the lack of documentation or proper historical representation in this process. It just didn’t happen, and people made decisions based on a lack of knowledge and that is really what is at matter. No transparency, no involvement with historical people. This is where I start. And that is all I can say tonight, but I’m working very hard to gain more information and share it with all of you because we all don’t know everything about everything, but I want what is best for the City and if the Broad Street Parkway is supposed to happen, I’m not saying it shouldn’t happen, I’m just saying that there needs to be more involvement and the right things need to be done, and I don’t think Option II is right at all. Thank you. Mayor Lozeau Is there further public comment? Frederick W. Sheldon, 7 Grand Avenue, Nashua Yes indeed. I was listening to your comments earlier when you were talking about the City, the State, and the Federal Government and you all had to work together to get this project done. Well that is fine, that is all well and good, but you as the Mayor, second generation whose family worked in the mills, needs to stand up and say look this is a historic district, and as Barbara said not all buildings can be saved, but you need to be the first person that says alright this is a historic district, this is what we need to save here, what can we do then with the State and the Federal Government if we want this project to go through. I’m sure it is going to go through, but as Robin said, there are a lot of issues that haven’t been discussed yet. First of all when they start tearing things up, digging up all of that, has a soil sample been done to figure out what is in that ground? Is that going to increase the cost? Are we going to have to get more money 4 or 5 years down the road after this project has begun? Where are those dump trucks going to go? Are they going to have to go down Pine Street past Ledge Street past the school during walking hours when all of those kids are leaving school? There are a lot of issues that I think haven’t been raised yet, and the Nashua Indians lived along that site, what if we discover an archeological dig down there that is historically significant to this site? What does that do then? And if that building is torn down that is part of Gate City Fence, is it my understanding that the contractors can do whatever they want with those buildings once they are done? I don’t know if that is correct or not, but the City should be able to keep those bricks and do something as a remembrance in that part of the city. The contractors just can’t come in and say well we are going to take it all. This is our history. I live in a house that was built in 1920 and I have a this huge street parcel that … 1920 so this is a very important piece of our history, and I agree there may be some needs to have it go through and I’m sure it will as I said before and it may, but I do think there are a lot of other little detailed issues that haven’t been looked at that really need to be. Can we keep these things, can we keep a piece of the Boiler, they are a part of our history, and give it to the Historical Society or the Smithsonian. This is our history, this is where we all grew up. This is a part of our heritage and we can’t lose it just because we want a road to come into town. Some of you …audio inaudible…they said they wanted it to go through because there is a bridge down here by Peddler’s Daughter was in need of repair, well no it is not in need of repair. By the time this bridge comes through we are half way down Amherst Street anyway. Finance – 12/21/11 Page 41 Look at Lowell, can you imagine a big parkway coming through the center of Lowell? Twenty years ago people tore down some buildings and they realized oh my God we can’t do this, and that was a thriving…they’ve got some textile things that are set up so you can hear the mills. They’ve got rafting now on the river. They’ve got a trolley set up so tourists can come in and come down. They have made it a destination city. We area destination city, we are the Gate city. Do you remember before they expanded Route 3 there was that huge granite wall that separated Route 3 North and South. You could tell you were coming to New Hampshire because of that. I hated to see that go because now we are just another road heading north. It was part of our history that disappeared. What will that do to all of our animals that come to this park? Three hundred and twenty five acres of beautiful park that people love to come to, what is the traffic and the lights and the impact going to have on all of those things? We think about just the traffic and what we do to move people faster and faster, but what about the quality of life, what about the fact that people love coming here and coming to that park because it is a beautiful spot? You have already got one section that goes under Route 3, do we want another section where you are surround by cars going by so it can’t be a tranquil spot for people to come by as they used to? We’re going to lose that if we do that, if we expand it to four lanes or two lanes. People love this town, I love this town, people come here, people love riding their mountain bikes there, we want to be able to do this and keep it a place where generations of people who love this city, we all love this city, and I think this Broad Street Parkway is a tough issue for a lot of people. Some love it, some hate it because I think it is like that old story of trying to describe an elephant; you get 7 people you are going to end up with 7 different answers. The hard part is coming to a consensus, and that is where we are now, we are trying to get everybody to work together and it is hard. There is no doubt about it. We all come with different agendas, different ideas. The Mayor second generation here wants to keep this city revitalized and keep economies coming in and keep the economics going and there is a lot of pressure on her to make sure that we are doing things the way they need to be done, and that is why she was elected to help keep doing that. But we all need to work together. We shouldn’t be fighting over all of this. It is a tough issue. It is an issue that is dear to all of our hearts, and I think if we could just take our time, table this for the moment, look at all of those little issues that we know are important to us, but realize there is a timetable of finances and everything else, but just look at the quality of life and see what we can do to maybe keep the project going but keep the quality of life there and the history of our city here. We all love it. Let’s work together to make sure we do that and not do this in a spirit of dissention. Thank you all very much. Mayor Lozeau Is there further public comment? Geoff Daly, 48 Walden Pond Drive I just want to add to the gentleman that just spoke. He talked about bricks and the other componentry. It’s my understanding that NNC, which used to the Marcor Corporation, has subcontracted the final disposal and clearance of all the boilers and all the steel work within the boiler house to X&R Demolition Company of Lowell. They within their contract have the right to cut up and dispose of every single piece of the internal uncontaminated parts of the boiler ruins. Again referring back to the fact that this is historic, you can’t build, you can’t manufacture those doors that are on those huge boilers. You can’t manufacture those turbines today, those pressure-relief valves and yet we have signed a contract allowing a demolition company to come in and take everything out without any cross-reference, without any further ado in retaining the history of what was built in this city. And apparently that turbine was partly built here in Nashua and part of it was built by Gage Machine Tool Company on Factory Street. There is only three of their lays left in this country. They were visited back in the early 1900s by MIT who wanted to learn all about the casting work and the machining work that was done in this city. It behooves us to immediately revisit the contract for the demolition and possible preservation as much as we can of what is left inside the boiler house. We know over the years, when I moved here in ’93, there were holes knocked in the windows and people going in Finance – 12/21/11 Page 42 and out. People were living in there, and then the city had to close it up. But what disappeared in the meantime, I understand, was an awful lot of material. And it’s probably historic material. But I would think we need to revisit and calmly look at what can we preserve for the next generation. Even my son could not believe the construction that some of the equipment that was in the boiler house made. You refer to the pictures, that’s all he’s seen is pictures. But put your hands on something is very important. It’s like going out into the wild and seeing the eagles and the deer and things like that. Physically seeing them. If he can put his hands on this stuff, it would be so much easier. They’ve got so much to pass on to the next generation and the fact that the city was a center of engineering and excellence in a lot of what was built and used in the Millyard was built here in Nashua and the Gage Company, there’s only three of their machines left in the whole world. The company doesn’t exist anymore. That’s part of our history that’s gone. I think we’ve got to look at it very, very carefully. I come back to the Spofford Company. They’ve done their work. I don’t think they should be getting an awful lot more money to re-engineer something that they have already engineered. Thank you. Robin Peters You were putting your hands on something. Alan Manoian on the tour that was just led last Saturday, he had put his hand on a building and it really resonated with me and now I know why. When we were standing in the middle, right in front of Clocktower, kind of in the center of all of it. He said to all of us, you are standing in the middle of a machine. And if we go and destroy pieces of the machine, later generations won’t have an opportunity to learn and marvel at our engineering wonders which Geoff has just talked about. That’s really my final comment for tonight. ADJOURNMENT MOTION BY ALDERMAN CHASSE TO ADJOURN MOTION CARRIED The Finance Committee meeting was adjourned at 8:12 p.m. Alderman-at-Large Ben Clemons Committee Clerk