Finance Committee

REPORT OF THE FINANCE COMMITTEE NOVEMBER 21, 2012 A meeting of the Finance Committee was held on Wednesday, November 21, 2012 at 7:01 p.m. in the Aldermanic Chamber. Mayor Donnalee Lozeau, Chair presided. Members of the Committee present: Alderman-at-Large Lori Wilshire, Vice Chair Alderman-at-Large David W. Deane Alderman-at-Large Barbara Pressly Alderman June M. Caron Alderman Arthur T. Craffey, Jr. Alderman Paul M. Chasse, Jr., In attendance for Part of Meeting Also in Attendance: Alderman James Donchess Alderman Mark Cookson, Arrived After Roll Call Alderman Kathy Vitale, Arrived After Roll Call PUBLIC COMMENT Robert Desharnais, 36 White Plains Drive, Nashua, NH I would like to make a few comments before I read from a written statement. I don’t understand why the City did not offer the Medical Center a renewal of their lease that we had for twenty years. It just blows my mind. If it had been a good deal for the City for 20 years, why don’t we just give it back to them? It just blows my mind. The other thing is, I’ve heard that some negotiations are going to be done between the medical center and CVS to see if they can work out something in regards to the parking lots. This is city owned property. I cannot understand how anyone can let a third party to represent the city for city-owned property. That is the responsibility of the Board of Aldermen. I have a statement that I’m going to read. I am 74-years old. In 1966 my wife and I both working in Massachusetts, decided to buy a home. Like most couples we were interested in the schools, hospitals and safety. We chose Nashua even though we had a long commute to Massachusetts everyday. Nashua was a thriving city with a population of 30,000 residents. Three of the major stores downtown were Carter’s, F.W. Woolworth’s, Sears and many more I cannot remember their names at this time. The hospital that my son was born in 1968 remains. A staple of the community. Today we have a population of more than 80,000. The hospital is a vital part of any community and parking availability is critical for its patients. Businesses come and go but hospitals are mainstays. The city has a 20-year lease with Southern New Hampshire Hospital. Why don’t we extend the lease or sell the land to the hospital, with the stipulation that it can only be used as an open-space parking lot. To quote the Mayor from the Nashua Telegraph, “Other downtown locations that CVS looked at did not fit with the city’s downtown plans”. I would like to remind you Mayor, I heard that same argument better than 10-years ago and that was regarding Shaw’s. Because o the cooperation of Alderman McCarthy, he had an informational meeting where we debated that. We recommended that they re-build the Shaws at Globe Plaza or as some people know it as Simoneau Plaza. At that meeting we were told by the developers from Rhode Island, that it could not be done because of the landfill. Well, we know what happened there. Shaws is thriving. It’s probably one of the most profitable Shaws they have in this area. You also stated, you don’t want to lose CVS in that location. To me that is a decision for CVS, not the City. Mayor Lozeau said that, while the medical center is a critical player in the community, she doubts the city could satisfy its wishes in the matter. I don’t consider the medical center as a player but a vital cog in the health of the citizens of Nashua. You the Mayor and the Board of Aldermen have a fiduciary responsibility to do what is best for the citizens of Nashua and not what they consider for best for business in Nashua. We do live here and some of us may die here, but Nashua lives on. The medical center must have suitable parking and will be here long after businesses come and go and new businesses replace them. I urge you Finance – 11/21/12 Page 2 to protect the health of our citizens and extend the lease to the medical center or let them buy the land for open space parking. The other thing I noticed in the newspaper was the reference to the hospital extending their garage. I, like most senior citizens do not like parking in garages for many reasons: (1) As we get older our driving skills are not as good as when we were younger. (2) Carbon monoxide and the gas fumes are not healthy for us, so we prefer open space parking. (3) The parking in the back of the hospital is very convenient for people like myself who have PAD and is a little difficult walking. Therefore, parking in the garage and doing all that extra walking is not very beneficial for me and it’s not beneficial for many seniors who we see everyday with walkers going up and down the streets. We need that parking space. CVS may not like the location they have now, but there are many areas in this city, just like for Shaws that they can go to. They can go to West Hollis Street. Most of it is residential, but one side of it is not. You have the empty Dartmouth Hitchchock building, the empty Squires building. There are plenty of locations in this city that if CVS wants to change their location they can do that and still thrive. We do not legislate in this city for the benefit of businesses, we do it for the benefit of the citizens. We pay our taxes. We accept that we do not always get our way, but we want respect. When there is a matter like this that is going to affect the citizens as drastically as this parking lot situation is going to, then you should hold a public hearing, the same way that Mr. McCarthy did in regards to Shaws and let the public come before you and express how they feel, what is best for this city and what is best for this hospital. The other thing, from what I know from my Civics teacher from the twelfth grade is that, government works when the people are involved, and you have to get us involved. You have to listen. Thank you for your time. Mayor Lozeau I will take a moment to let the Committee know that at our last Finance Committee Meeting when we took up this issue there were concerns raised. We agreed to have further discussion with CVS and the Medical Center. We did that yesterday. It is my intention tonight to ask the Committee not to remove it from the table as we have our discussions ongoing and try to find a solution. Just so you know it is my intention to take it up tonight and I hope the Committee would agree with that. Alderman Chasse For the record, Alderman Cookson is now in our presence. Alderman Pressly While we have the chance to discuss that, the issue came up last meeting as to who was present at the last meeting that took place and the possibility there was a quorum of committee. Mayor Lozeau There was not a quorum of committee present. Alderman Pressly In these meetings, do you keep a record of who attends and that can come out eventually? Mayor Lozeau It can come out right now. Alderman Pressly May we know who is in attendance? Finance – 11/21/12 Page 3 Mayor Lozeau In this last meeting that we had, there were members from the hospital, members from CVS, myself, Alderman McCarthy, Alderman Wilshire, Alderman Tabacsko and Economic Development Director Tom Galilgani were at yesterday’s meeting. That is not a quorum of any committee. It’s not a quorum of any group. Alderman Pressly The one in question took place before that. Mayor Lozeau The one before that, the Aldermen that were present were: Alderman Craffey, Alderman Tabacsko and Alderman McCarthy. That was it. Three Aldermen. Again, not a quorum of any group. When I have meetings such as that, I try to determine who should be present. In that instance, as I said that evening, I asked Alderman McCarthy to be present as President of the Board of Aldermen, also because of his experience with land use. I asked Alderman Craffey to be present because it was happening within his Ward. I asked Alderman Tabacsko to be present because he chairs the Planning and Economic Development Committee. Yesterday I asked the same Aldermen to be present and I included Alderman Wilshire as a member of Finance and as Vice Chairman of the Board. That was yesterday’s meeting. Moving forward, I do not anticipate it would anybody different than the ones who had been participating. Alderman Pressly I would like to comment on that. That has been my understanding, that is what the plan has been, that you invite the President of the Board, Planning and Economic Development and then the Ward person to be present. I would just like to point out to you that just by sheer coincidence three of those people all live in the same Ward, yourself, President of the Board and Alderman Tabacsko of Ward 5. Just to let you know, it’s not a balance of geographic representation. I would also like to point out to you that, if that’s the way you do it, the other four of us that are At-Large, will never be included in any of this because we do not represent a single Ward. I just wanted to point that out to you that if that is your method of choosing who gets to be in these private discussions, that it is rather exclusive. Mayor Lozeau Alderman Pressly, when I don’t invite Aldermen it’s a problem. When I do invite Aldermen it’s a problem. I’m not sure that I could ever really satisfy everybody. I will do the best to balance it. I’m not balancing based on where people live in the City. I balance it based on what their responsibilities are. That is why I made those choices. I would anticipate when we come to a final conclusion that there will be something before the Full Board of Aldermen for discussion. Alderman Pressly I would hope you do keep track and when an issue of this magnitude does come up, you will be able to announce at some point who the players are who have been meeting in this manner. Thank you. Mayor Lozeau I’m happy to announce it each time. Finance – 11/21/12 Page 4 Alderman Donchess Briefly, may I add to that subject. Mr. Desharnais suggested a public informational meeting or public hearing to accept comment. I would like to say I think that is a good idea. I believe there is a lot of public interest in this issue and the issue of whether the lot is going to be leased to the hospital as it had been or leased to CVS for purposes of expansion. Therefore, I think the idea of having public comment is a good one. Mayor Lozeau I would not disagree. When there is something we can present to the public, I’m sure we will make certain that happens. As I mentioned at the last meeting, which you were probably not aware of, it’s a balance between everybody’s interest. I do think it’s the citizens interest that is equally important. When we looked at the opportunity for CVS and where they were, there is something to be said for trying to do something at that corner and how it is utilized now and the ability to make it safer and more accessible was paramount in the decisions we have been having. It was actually a good meeting yesterday. We are exploring some possibilities and I’m hopeful we will find a resolution that will satisfy as many people as possible. MOTION BY ALDERMAN CHASSE TO SUSPEND THE RULES TO ACCEPT THE MEMO FROM MR. DESHARNAIS PLACED ON OUR DESKS AFTER THE AGENDA WAS PREPARED AND PLACE IT ON FILE MOTION CARRIED COMMUNICATIONS From: Robert Gabriel, Purchasing Manager Re: Contract Award for Parking Pay Stations and Software Requested by the Transportation Department (Value: $97,032) MOTION BY ALDERMAN CHASSE TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND AWARD THE CONTRACTS TO CALEAmerica IN THE AMOUNT OF $28,400 AND T2 SYSTEMS IN THE AMOUNT OF $68,632. FUNDS ARE AVAILABLE IN CITY BUILDINGS CAPITAL PROJECTS FUND, GENERAL GOVERNMENT BUILDINGS ($41,739) AND TRAFFIC VIOLATIONS, 71 EQUIPMENT ($55,293) ON THE QUESTION Alderman Pressly I will defer to Alderman Deane. Alderman Deane My question is the funding source, city buildings, is this the bonded money? Mayor Lozeau It is. Alderman Deane How does City building capital improvements fall in with buying parking meters? Finance – 11/21/12 Page 5 Mayor Lozeau It’s not with buying parking meters. It is specifically for the four pay stations that are in the two garages, so it falls under the improvements in the garages. Alderman Deane So a garage is considered part of the city buildings? Mayor Lozeau Right. That is one of the buildings that were identified under the bond for structural work and improvement. Alderman Deane I find this a far stretch of dollars. I do not think it’s appropriate to use that account for this purchase. I do not consider it an improvement to the parking garage. When we looked at the structural work and fixing the cracks and the drainage, that is what I was under the impression the money was going to be used for. I did not know we would be buying pays stations for the parking garages with the money. Mayor Lozeau It was part of the upgrade. Both Bond Council, City Treasurer and the CFO said it is an appropriate purchase. The remaining amount will come out of the Traffic Violation Fund. It is two funds that are covering the costs. Alderman Pressly I believe these first two items might be a bit premature by coming to Finance. I know that on the Infrastructure Committee they had questions of the men in charge of these for some time and are waiting for an answer. I think it is more appropriate that these be held and give the Infrastructure Committee a chance to look at them and understand what is going; not only the funding, but what type of stations are going in. The reason I ask this, as you know, I have always attended the downtown group and this time there was no notification and we talked about that. If we held it up we would give that Committee a chance to do proper notification and have an appropriate meeting where they take a vote so that people can participate. I am really confused by a lot of this. Are we going to have three different systems, or two different systems? According to what is in the packet, it is unclear to me if the pay stations in the garage are going to be the same as the ones on the streets. We have spoken in Infrastructure and other meetings that the pay stations in the garage would have a marked number at each parking stall? Mayor Lozeau Pay per space. That’s correct. Alderman Pressly If you try to do that on Main Street, you can’t, because you can’t put it on Main Street. Mayor Lozeau There are two different things tonight before the Committee. What Finance is being asked to do tonight is to approve this vendor and to approve this vendor for the first four stations in the parking garage. It was more than a year ago that the legislation passed to approve using pay stations. I think everybody is on board with pay stations in the garage being a pay per space. That way we can have just two pay stations in each Finance – 11/21/12 Page 6 garage at the exits. This legislation does that. It purchases the hand held devices that are necessary for it and it purchases the software that will be used throughout the city. The second item, which is the next motion is an item relating to authorizing up to $140,000 for this same vendor to have the contract if approved by the Full Board of Aldermen for supplemental appropriation for the remainder of the pay stations. It is our intention to have that presentation before the Board and to have that discussion about whether the rest of the pay stations are pay and display or pay per space. There is time for that. The reason that we are doing it this way is because of the lead time to get the stations out there. Once we order them, it takes between six and ten weeks to get the stations in. We are trying not to delay that any further. The garages are ready. We can take the meters out of the space. We have been talking about that for quite some time in Infrastructure about some of those other meters coming out and going into the new locations that have been determined through the legislation where we want more meters. I would encourage the Committee not to delay getting the pay stations in place for the garage. I believe a Budget Committee is being scheduled to take up the second piece of legislation which speaks about the rest of the Main Street and the cost associated with that and the discussion around what the choice is going to be; pay and display or pay per space. The Downtown Improvement Committee is going to provide a recommendation to the Board to talk about that. I think it was today that I sent an email to Alderman Cookson. I understand there were questions that came up about some of the parking items from the update you had from the Transportation Manager. I do not know what those questions are. I have asked Alderman Cookson to get them to me and I will provide them. But I would go out on a limb and say they are probably not for the pay stations in the garage. Alderman Pressly I’m very concerned. I do not think this type of system is going to work on Main Street. You cannot put a number on every space. We are going to have to have two different types of pay stations. Mayor Lozeau The decision about what we are going to use on Main Street has not been decided. In all the communities that currently have pay stations, their garages are pay per space and their streets are pay and display. That will be the discussion the Full Board will have. Alderman Pressly I think we need to talk about it first and upfront. I’m very concerned that if that happens we will have three different systems. The meters are still going to be used in the obscure places. I’m sorry that Mr. Desharnais has left, but I’m a year older than he is and I know it has been difficult for the people in my generation to deal with the complicated way of the three different tiered parking zones. If we now have three different ways of paying, I think it is going to be extremely confusing. I’m not sure that just because this is done in other cities that it means we need to do the same thing. I think we need to explore before we do any of this to see if this is really what we want. The way it looks now is that we have three different zones and we are going to have three different ways to collect the money. I think it is going to be extremely difficult. It may be the only thing we can do. The other thing that has to be pointed out, I went to Concord on Friday to attend the Rail Authority Meeting. I parked in their garage. I remembered my number, I got down there and the meter was broken. They said to find another one. I found one half-way into the garage. These things do break. If we have one at the end of both garages, if any one of them breaks the person has to walk the full distance of the parking garage to find the second station. Just to point out, the other thing that was a little amusing was the maintenance on these. I had an extra hour more than I had put in. The best I could figure out was that they forgot to change the clocks because of the time change. My point is these things break down. They do require maintenance. I’m not sure that two at each garage are going to be enough unless we have very adequate, fast ways to repair them when they fail. If we are going to start ordering these, I would like to know up front if we are going to have two or three different systems because it is going to be extremely confusing. We are not a huge community. Finance – 11/21/12 Page 7 Mayor Lozeau Alderman Craffey could you take over as Clerk please? It’s the rule of the committee. We can certainly take this up and decide what we are going to do. As far as all of this goes, it was more than a year ago that we decided we were taking pay stations. The work has been done. The bid went out. There was a response. We made some choices and some recommendations. If the Committee chooses to take those up, we will move forward, if they don’t, then we will not. Alderman Pressly Would it hurt to table them till the next meeting, because Infrastructure meets next week. I certainly would like to know if we are going to have two systems, or three systems. For sure we are going to have two. I need to know if we are going to have three different parking zones and three different systems? Mayor Lozeau I’m trying to explain, there is an opportunity for that because the second motion for the remaining parking station is going to be taken up by the Full Board. It may be part of the Budget Committee, maybe it will go to Infrastructure. I don’t know what where it will be assigned. It will come in for a Full Board meeting and that decision will be made. Alderman Pressly I realize that, but if you have already started to buy one system, you’ve made a permanent, irreversible decision. Mayor Lozeau For the garages, that is correct. Alderman Pressly I think before we order anything we should determine, are we going to have three different systems? Is there any way we could have the same method of paying for parking that is in the garage that is on the street? I know a lot of towns do not have them, but I think it’s time we got more creative. I did not realize early on that there were going to be three different methods of collecting money. Mayor Lozeau We are trying to be efficient and creative. In order to have a pay and display in a garage you are going to need two per floor. At about $7,200 a piece, I would say that is probably not a good plan. Having solar powered ones at each exit, pay per space, is the recommendation for garages. I do not know what the feeling of the rest of the Board is going to be as far as Main Street. I know the Downtown Improvement Committee feels very strongly that pay and display is the right choice, and I know some of the Alderman feel very strongly that pay per space is the right choice. I’m sure we will have that debate. Tonight we are trying to chose the vendor and go forward with the four for the garage. Let’s see what the role of the Committee might be. Alderman Pressly I would just like to say I certainly want everyone to have an opportunity to talk, but I would like to, after everyone has expressed themselves have a chance to table it, just to see if there is some way we could have the same system in the garages as on the street, just to avoid some confusion. I know it’s not being done in other communities in New Hampshire, but it seems like we are always doing what other people Finance – 11/21/12 Page 8 have already done and maybe we can find a new way. There have been many people over the years who prefer to go back and have the person in the garage. When this first got started, I had no idea that we would have three different methods in a community of this size to collect the money for the parking. Mayor Lozeau The discussion about putting a person back in the garage has been had at least on three separate occasions, where the cost analysis has been done and presented to committee. As I said, let’s see what the rule of Committee is and whatever that is, that’s what we will do. MOTION BY ALDERMAN DEANE TO TABLE MEMO NOS.13-062 AND NO. 13-064 ON THE QUESTION Mayor Lozeau Alderman Deane, I’m going to ask you to consider not making that motion yet. Certainly it’s not a debatable motion, I understand that and I gave a significant amount of latitude to Alderman Pressly and other members had their hands up. I like people to have enough time. Alderman Deane As long as I am recognized again, Mayor, I will retract my motion and allow the discussion to continue. Mayor Lozeau Thank you. MOTION WITHDRAWN BY ALDERMAN DEANE TO TABLE MEMOS 13-062 AND 13-064 Alderman Wilshire Did I understand that the pay and display systems that we are going to purchase for the garage will be programmable. Will they be the same type of systems we put on Main Street? Is the software programmable to do either function, pay and display or pay per space? Mayor Lozeau That is correct. The intention is, in a garage, to program those four units for pay per space. Then we will have the discussion about what the downtown pay stations might be and whether they will be pay and display or pay per space. Alderman Wilshire It’s the same equipment? Mayor Lozeau It’s all the same. As a matter of fact I thought there was a picture attached here. I made another copy of meters. Finance – 11/21/12 Page 9 Alderman Wilshire If that’s the case, if we went ahead and did that and we decided pay per space did not work, we could change it to pay and display or vice versa? Mayor Lozeau Correct. Alderman Cookson I have two questions. The first question was the motion that Alderman Chasse read, it included the $140,000 for the second? Mayor Lozeau It did not. The first motion is merely for the software and the four units in the garages. Alderman Cookson Following up on Alderman Wilshire’s comment; pay and display versus pay per space, I think both of those conversations are difficult ones to have on Main Street during the winter months when there is snow. Both of those inherently have difficulties. One is, if it is a pay per space, you have a very difficult time identifying the space you are in and then walking to the station and inputting whichever space you are in. If it’s pay and display you experience the same difficulty because there is the potential your windshield has snow on it. The enforcement aspect is difficult because you are not able to tell whether you’re displaying anything. I think that happens six months from November until April. That is the kind of conversation you have and we have to understand that. I just wanted to make that point and hopefully we will be able to identify the most appropriate solution for downtown and the Main Street. Mayor Lozeau I agree. I’m hoping we build a consensus on it. I’m trying to give the message to this vendor that, yes, we intend to do business with you. We have not yet decided on the entire package. Alderman Cookson Without leaping forward too much, the second contract is actually awarding the vendor $140,000 for what? Mayor Lozeau The second motion is awarding the contractor up to $140,000 to do pay stations. We then have to tell them whether we are programming them as pay and display or pay per space. Alderman Cookson Truly, just a retainer? Mayor Lozeau It’s just telling them we are going to do business with them. Say we have the discussion and decide we are not going forward, we can’t get 10 votes because it’s a supplemental appropriation, then they are not going to be providing it and we are not going to be doing the pay stations. The first part is just the garage. Finance – 11/21/12 Page 10 Alderman Caron Manchester has the pay stations. Have you talked to them? I understand what Alderman Cookson is saying about the winter time. They have had these for a long time in Manchester so have they resolved that problem with snow on the windshield of their pay and display? I know the garages have a different system and it seems to be working. I would think that when you are having the discussion about this that you did check with some of these other cities concerning winter and what the problems were. Did you do that? Mayor Lozeau Yes. Manchester, Portsmouth, Concord. Mr. Sousa has talked to all of them. The vendor we have chosen is the same vendor in all those communities as well, so we had an opportunity to talk to them. The bottom line is no system is perfect. It’s really about preference. I started by thinking that pay per space was good choice because I think it’s convenient for somebody. You look at your number. You walk out of the station. You put it in. You pay your money and off you go about your business. You don’t have to go back to your car to put anything inside the car, especially in bad weather. I thought that’s the way to go. Then you start thinking about, how do you put the number out there. We could do something unique in Nashua. We could engrave it right in the curb. Maybe paint it in the street along the line. Again, you’re still dealing with winter, whether its on your windshield for pay and display or on the ground covering the numbers, still a challenge. When Hampton put theirs in, they were pay per space the whole length of the beach which, I thought, it must work wonderfully. They have now changed to pay and display. I thought something must have gone wrong. We reached out to them and found the reason they changed from pay per space to pay and display is because you have to have a good, strong wireless signal to have those units talking to each other. The length of the beach was just too high and the seacoast has some trouble with some of that. That is why they changed. It’s so easy to see the pros and cons on both sides. The downtown improvement committee has discussed this half a dozen times. I think the Full Board needs to have a discussion about that. I would like us all to weigh in on what we think the right thing is for Downtown because we are all going to have to live with it. We are all going to hear people’s feedback about it. The only one that I’m confident that we have the right answer and I’m ready to move forward on is the garages. Merely because it is cost effective to do it that way. It’s easy to paint the numbers and know where you are. Alderman Vitale Sorry, I had work tonight. I meant to be here earlier. You might have had this in your discussion, but in the parking garages, I like the direction we are going. My question is, do the pay stations at the entrance ways keep track of the amount of spaces available in the garages? So, if by chance your sold out it will let you know it’s sold out? Mayor Lozeau It’s capable of that. Alderman Vitale It does that. They would pick it up right when they went in? Mayor Lozeau No. They are not displaying it. In the garage it’s pay per space. You pull into your space Number 139 and when you leave you pay for number 139. Alderman Vitale I understand now. Thank you. Finance – 11/21/12 Page 11 Alderman Cookson Alderman Vitale reminded me, the pay stations in the garage, you had mentioned solar power. How is the solar power attached to it? Is there a battery back-up or electrical back-up. I am assuming the pay stations are going to be in the garage and not outside. Mayor Lozeau They are going to be right outside the entrance. Alderman Cookson In the weather? Mayor Lozeau In the weather, like all the other ones that will be out on Main Street. They are built for that. It’s not a problem. They are also more visible. We are also putting light bars on them for nighttime. Alderman Cookson The stations are outside the garage in the weather, no covering? Mayor Lozeau No cover. Alderman Cookson No cover at all, with solar power. Alderman Donchess When you go to the pay station do you get a ticket and go back to your car or does the pay station understand what space you are reserving? Mayor Lozeau For the ones we are talking about right now for the garage, as the pay per space, you do not have to go back to your car. You merely put in the number of the space you are at, it gives you a ticket and off you go. Alderman Pressly I think it’s clever that you had this one instrument and you can program it one way or the other and that is convenient for the city. My concern is for the consumer. If you program them differently that means the people who enjoy parking in downtown are going to have to figure out three different methods. Bear in mind we are still going to have the current parking meters in other places in the area, so that’s the third one. We will have the three. Another reason I believe it is important to table the two of them is so we can take a couple more weeks, maybe a month, just to really understand what we are doing and to have it clear before we vote on the one, that we have decided what the second one is going to be. The other thing that concerns me, and I know you know this Mayor because we had a long conversation, was to have proper notification. The explanation was that they were volunteers. If you look at the program the Chairman has been on the Board of Assessors for years, you were there, Galigani was there, one former and one current Finance – 11/21/12 Page 12 Aldermen were there, it was not posted anywhere. I think that’s a problem. It may seem picky from your point of view. I know these people work hard and we are happy that they do, but if we don’t have a standard of the right-to-know, we might as well just throw everything in if we do not have a standard. If you are having a City Hall meeting of any sort you have to notify and it has to be posted and this was not. I think for those reasons it would not be harmful to table it so we can all understand exactly what is going to take place where and, also to get some response from people like Mr. Desharnais. As we all age changes get harder and harder and the population that has really been affected by the zones in the City has been the people of the age bracket of myself and Mr. Desharnais. The same thing is going to happen if you have three different ways of collecting the parking. Maybe that is the way we have to do it. If that is what these other communities are doing and we are going to use the same thing they do, that may be all we can do. I think it’s important that we know that up front and we allow other citizens to come in an express themselves like this gentleman did. He said it better than I could, as far as the convenience of parking for that age group. As we also know, that age group is becoming more and more prevalent. It’s a larger age group than a lot of us would like it to be. I hope that just out courtesy to the seniors to just table this until we know exactly. Are we going to have two different systems or three different systems of collection before we buy any of them? Mayor Lozeau Alderman Pressly, I would just take a moment to say that the Committee, as I said to you did not intentionally not post their meeting. They discussed this at posted meetings as well as the last one. I don’t think anybody meant to do it. Everybody makes mistakes. I think there is a standard here of making sure things are public and posted. Even with a standard, even with a protocol, even with multiple eyes looking at something, sometimes people miss things. When we found out about it we tried to correct it right away. As you know, Mr. Galigani went in to see Sue Lovering to ask how to work together to make sure we are not missing these things and we will continue to do that as best we can. Alderman Pressly This is not the first time this has happened. This is the third time it has happened. I am not suggesting they meant to forget to do it. It does not matter if you mean to or not. The rules are, you do that or it’s not a proper meeting. I know they didn’t mean to. I understand it was a last minute decision to have a meeting. They made the decision after everything had been posted and that does happen. Still, if you make it late you still have to post. It’s not a matter of intentions, good or bad. It’s just a fact that it was not done. It is even in their best interest to give them a chance to do it correctly. Thank you. MOTION BY ALDERMAN DEANE TO TABLE MEMO 13-062 ON THE QUESTIONS Mayor Lozeau The motion made regarding it, I would imagine? Alderman Deane I move to table the memo in its entirety. Mayor Lozeau It wasn’t just the memo, there was a motion made. Finance – 11/21/12 Page 13 Alderman Deane The motion would be a moot point at this time because a motion to table has precedence over the prior motion. Mayor Lozeau I know it has precedence. Alderman Deane The prior motion to table has precedence. It does not have to be stated at all. That is my motion. Mayor Lozeau Thank you. All those in favor of tabling Memo 13-062, please raise your hand. Those opposed. MOTION FAILED Alderman Deane Now we revert back to the previous motion? Mayor Lozeau Yes. Further discussion on that motion. Alderman Pressly If we have a split or a tie on this motion, the motion fails, is that correct? Mayor Lozeau That is correct. Alderman Pressly I encourage the people who want to table this to vote the same way. Thank you. MOTION FAILED Mayor Lozeau Does anybody have another motion? MOTION BY ALDERMAN DEANE TO TABLE MEMO 13-062 Mayor Lozeau If we are going to go back and forth between tabling and untabling, I don’t know that that is going to help. MOTION BY ALDERMAN DEANE TO GO THE NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA – MEMO 13-064 MOTION CARRIED Finance – 11/21/12 Page 14 Mayor Lozeau I think we will have to come back and take some action on that motion, however, Alderman Deane. From: Robert Gabriel, Purchasing Manager Re: Contract Award for Parking Pay Stations Requested by the Transportation Department (Value: $140,000) MOTION BY ALDERMAN CHASSE TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND, CONTINGENT UPON THE PASSAGE OF A SUPPLEMENTAL APPROPRIATION BY THE FULL BOARD OF ALDERMEN, AWARD THE CONTRACT TO CALEAmerica IN AN AMOUNT NOT-TO-EXCEED $140,000. SOURCE OF FUNDING IS DEPARTMENT 166, PARKING LOTS; GENERAL FUND OPERATING BUDGET, 81 CAPITAL PROJECTS/IMPROVEMENTS ON THE QUESTION Alderman Deane Looking through my packet, this is the Resolution associated with this expenditure is anticipated to be referred from the Board of Alderman meeting of November 27, and sent to the Budget Review Committee that meets on November 28. After that it has to go back to the Full Board for a final disposition. Then there is a seven-day timeline after a meeting in December in which the Mayor acts upon before whatever action was taken is accepted, denied or vetoed. I am going to move to table this as well. This is a co-piece of 13- 062. MOTION BY ALDERMAN DEANE TO TABLE MEMO 13-062 ON THE QUESTION Mayor Lozeau The purpose of having this in tonight was to try to be able to not have to go to Finance after the Full Board’s action and to move forward with the selection of the vendor. That is what the discussion is about tonight. Alderman Pressly For the same reasons, I would ask that we not take action on this tonight. One of the confusions for this section in particular is the funding. This is the funding that comes under the recommendation area of this committee, the Downtown Group. They are specifically by the statute only allowed to recommend for Zone One. If you are planning to put these in other areas besides Zone One, the funding does not apply. I feel there is even an added confusion with this. If you recall, we had a long discussion as far as money for the Downtown Group that had to do with the application for parking. I do not have a copy in front of me, but I believe the language that created that group was supposed to be for marketing, amenities, the benches. In fact in the minutes they did produce at that meeting, they talked about that they would be going around and replacing the benches. This is not a category that this group is to be involved in. They are to be funding something else. Mayor Lozeau Actually, Alderman Pressly, the City has already appropriated the funds for the benches, the trash cans and those items. Finance – 11/21/12 Page 15 Alderman Pressly I am aware of that and I find it very curious. Mayor Lozeau This is merely a recommendation. It is not their privy to make a decision. They are making a recommendation to the Board for them to make a decision. That is what this is about. That is what the legislation is about. The Full Board will make a decision. Alderman Pressly These are related, it’s a package deal. I think it’s a smart thing to deal with both of them at the same time at Finance after the various Boards of Alderman have had a chance to look at them and understand them. Alderman Craffey This relates to Ordinance 11-76, in which it says the amount of money in excess of $728,000 for the calendar year 2012, do we know what the parking revenue is for 2012? Mayor Lozeau We do. I don’t have it with me this evening. There was a presentation on it at the Infrastructure Committee. We estimate there is going to be about $150,000 above the $728,000 available. Any discussion? MOTION FAILED Mayor Lozeau I’m going to suggest we move on to the rest of our agenda, come back and visit these and see if we can find some solution that we can all live this. From: Robert Gabriel, Purchasing Manager Re: Purchase of Replacement Radio Equipment (Value: $95,680) MOTION BY ALDERMAN CHASSE TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND AUTHORIZE THE PURCHASE THROUGH NH-WSCA CONTRACT #8000153 WITH MOTOROLA SOLUTIONS IN THE AMOUNT OF $95,680. FUNDS ARE AVAILABLE IN DEPARTMENT 157, CITYWIDE COMMUNICATIONS; GENERAL FUND OPERATING BUDGET, 81 CAPITAL PROJECTS/ IMPROVEMENTS MOTION CARRIED From: Robert Gabriel, Purchasing Manager Re: Contract Award for Lincoln Park Header Repair Requested by Solid Waste (Value: $12,899) MOTION BY ALDERMAN CHASSE TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND, CONTINGENT UPON BOARD OF PUBLIC WORKS APPROVAL, AWARD THE CONTRACT TO NEW ENGLAND ENERGY SERVICES IN THE AMOUNT OF $12,899. SOURCE OF FUNDING IS DEPARTMENT 168, SOLID WASTE; SOLID WASTE FUND, 53 PROFESSIONAL & TECHNICAL SERVICES ON THE QUESTION Finance – 11/21/12 Page 16 Alderman Deane Did someone look into this firm’s availability to do this type of work? Mayor Lozeau Yes. Alderman Deane I see a letter. I’m looking at the price differentials. They are quite substantial. Mayor Lozeau The winning bidder was closer to what the engineers estimated the cost to be. It’s a pretty simple fix. The pipe is sagging because the trash has settled under it. Alderman Deane Is that where the driveway is? Have you been up there? Mayor Lozeau I’ve been up there. Alderman Deane Not lately though? In the last three or four months? Mayor Lozeau Yes. Alderman Deane When you go in the backside by the parking lot and you go down and look at the roadway by the playground area, it’s unbelievable. I bet it has a foot and a half or so. Alderman Craffey has been there too. Mayor Lozeau There is a dip there. Alderman Deane There is more than a dip. Something underneath there has really let loose. Are they going to look into that? Where is this located? Mayor Lozeau I don’t know where this is located. I did not ask that question. I just know that the trash has settled under it, the pipe is now tilted; they need to lift it up, refill underneath and straighten up the pipe. That is what this work is for. The engineers anticipated it would be about a $7,000 cost. This company came back with $12,000. That is based on their best estimate of how much time it might take. They say it could be less than $12,000. Finance – 11/21/12 Page 17 Alderman Deane Is that Sanborn and Head that gave us that $7,000 estimate? Mayor Lozeau I believe it was. They are our engineer on solid waste. Alderman Deane Did they give an explanation of why they were off by that amount of money, $5,300? Mayor Lozeau No. Alderman Deane They didn’t. Did we pay them to tell us it was going to cost us $7,000? Mayor Lozeau No. Alderman Deane We didn’t. Mayor Lozeau We just asked them if they could give us some idea of what they anticipate the cost would be. They gave us a number. We talked to them when we saw the bids that came in and said we have two bids that are close together and one bid that is pretty low. Alderman Deane So they did not spend any time up there looking at the issue? They just threw a number out and that was the $7,000? Mayor Lozeau They made a suggestion based on what we knew the problem was. Alderman Pressly If my memory serves me right, Lincoln Park is one of the parks that was built over a landfill. There was a time, many years ago that some of the contaminants were seeping up. Was that considered in the mix? If they start digging in there, who knows what is going to happen. Mayor Lozeau That is what this pipe is. This pipe is because it’s a landfill. This pipe pulls the methane out. We need to fix it because it is not doing it’s job right now. Finance – 11/21/12 Page 18 Alderman Pressly What I’m suggesting is that with a situation like that, any time you go into the ground the surprises are probably not happy ones. Mayor Lozeau We understand, thank you. Any further discussion on this item? MOTION CARRIED From: Robert Gabriel, Purchasing Manager Re: Purchase of Trash & Recycling Carts Requested by Solid Waste Department (Value: $135,000) MOTION BY ALDERMAN CHASSE TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND, CONTINGENT UPON BOARD OF PUBLIC WORKS APPROVAL, AWARD THE CONTRACT TO TOTER, INC. IN AN AMOUNT NOT-TO-EXCEED $135,000. FUNDS ARE AVAILABLE IN DEPARTMENT 168, SOLID WASTE; SOLID WASTE FUND, 71 EQUIPMENT ON THE QUESTION Alderman Deane These will be sold for $60? When a citizen goes down and gives $60 for the cart, who owns it? Mayor Lozeau The citizen does. Alderman Deane What happens to the $60? Mayor Lozeau It goes into the City General Fund. Alderman Deane But the carts still come in numbered, with the numbers etched in on them. Alderman Donchess Is it for a mixture of the garbage carts and the recycling carts or just recycling? Mayor Lozeau This one is just recycling. Alderman Donchess It’s about 2000? Finance – 11/21/12 Page 19 Mayor Lozeau It will allow for about 2,250 carts. They are going like hotcakes, especially since we put it in the wastewater bill. There is a waiting list going for it. MOTION CARRIED From: Robert Gabriel, Purchasing Manager Re: Contract Award for Aldermanic Chamber Upgrades (Value: $58,330) MOTION BY ALDERMAN CHASSE TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE, AND AWARD THE CONTRACT TO RED THREAD IN THE AMOUNT OF $58,330. SOURCE OF FUNDING IS DEPARTMENT 122 INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY; GOVERNMENT & EDUCATIONAL CHANNELS FUND, 81 CAPITAL PROJECTS/IMPROVEMENTS ON THE QUESTION Alderman Deane What is a confidence monitor? Mayor Lozeau It is a monitor that is going to go on the Clerk’s desk so if the screen is down and the presentation is on the screen, that the person sitting here will be able to see the presentation on the monitor while they are taking notes or whatever. Alderman Deane So this supplies confidence? Mayor Lozeau That is what they call it, I just do not know why they call it that. Maybe it gives them confidence that they can see what is going on. This plan will allow for a projector to be installed, so no more rolling the cart in and plugging it in. It will allow for the sound equipment under this desk to be taken out of here. It will allow for locations for thumb drives to be plugged in at Alderman Tabacsko’s desk, Alderman Donchess’ desk, my desk and this desk. When people are doing presentations, those options will be available. There will be a control panel here that allows the screen to go up and down, shut the sound off and on. That is what this plan is for. Alderman Deane What group over saw this recommendation of improvements? Mayor Lozeau I was asked by Alderman McCarthy to look into some of these changes in the chamber. We started that over a year ago and asked IT to look into it. Six months into it a committee was put together that Alderman Pressly chaired and they started looking at things. This is a recommendation of both that committee, the IT Department and the CTAB group. Finance – 11/21/12 Page 20 Alderman Pressly To clarify, this money is coming from the cable television user just so this is not taxpayer money. The Ad Hoc Committee that worked on this, we already knew this had been suggested and it was the best we could do at this time. The committee’s true recommendation was that we hire someone to do an analysis of the entire room. With Mr. Barker moving on, I’m not sure what has happened to that. I have asked President McCarthy and he is looking into that. The committee did not do much with this, but we knew it had been worked out and planned by the Mayor and President McCarthy separate from what we did. Mayor Lozeau It’s my understanding, Alderman Pressly, that the consultant will come in and do that additional work that you want. The funds are available for that to happen. Alderman Cookson Nothing is happening to each one of the desks, this is general in allowing thumb drives to access files remotely? Mayor Lozeau For instance, if Mr. Galigani or Mr. Sousa come in and they do a presentation, they will be able to sit at one of these desks, plug it in and it will be on the screen. Or hand it to who is chairing the meeting or the clerk. Alderman Cookson Your confidence monitor that you mentioned, is that the monitor that is accessing these remote files through thumb drives? Mayor Lozeau It will be what it sees on the screen. There will be a touch panel on the desk for the other things. MOTION CARRIED Mayor Lozeau Let’s go back to the first two items on the Agenda. We have to break a tie one way or the other. I would be willing to change my vote to allow for it to be tabled, to go to the Budget Committee when the Resolution comes in and then have the discussion. If we need to schedule a special Finance meeting, hopefully, people will be willing to do that. I think it makes sense to go forward with the garage. I do not think it is any of our best interest to keep spinning our wheels. Alderman Deane would you like to try your motion again? Alderman Deane I think we have a Finance meeting in December. I wanted to tell you exactly when the date was, but I’ve lost my agenda. Alderman Pressly I will make a motion to table the two of them. MOTION BY ALDERMAN PRESSLY TO TABLE MEMO NOS.13-062 Finance – 11/21/12 Page 21 ON THE QUESTION Alderman Deane We have a Finance meeting scheduled on December 5. Are you stating that we have to have a special meeting? Mayor Lozeau I don’t know, we will have to see what happens. Alderman Deane What do you mean by that. Mayor Lozeau I would like to see what the discussion is in the Budget Committee. Alderman Pressly It does not need a date certain. It would just be on the table. Alderman Deane I understand that. Is there going to be some sort of presentation associated with the supplemental appropriation pertaining to the parking? Mayor Lozeau I will speak to the Committee Chairman and see what he would like to do. Alderman Deane If he says no? Mayor Lozeau That is his call, he is the Committee Chairman. Motion is to table the first item on tonight’s agenda, the first communication. MOTION CARRIED Mayor Lozeau Would you like to make the same motion for the second item on our agenda, Alderman Deane or Alderman Pressly? MOTION BY ALDERMAN DEANE TO TABLE THE $140,000 CONTRACT AWARD REQUESTED BY THE TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT MOTION CARRIED Finance – 11/21/12 Page 22 UNFINISHED BUSINESS - None NEW BUSINESS - None DISCUSSION - None RECORD OF EXPENDITURES MOTION BY ALDERMAN CRAFFEY THAT THE FINANCE COMMITTEE HAS COMPLIED WITH THE CITY CHARTER AND ORDINANCES PERTAINING TO THE RECORD OF EXPENDITURES FOR THE PERIOD NOVEMBER 1, 2012 TO NOVEMBER 15, 2012 MOTION CARRIED PUBLIC COMMENT - None POSSIBLE NON-PUBLIC SESSION - None ADJOURNMENT MOTION BY ALDERMAN CRAFFEY TO ADJOURN MOTION CARRIED The Finance Committee meeting was adjourned at 8:09 p.m. Alderman Paul M. Chasse, Jr. Committee Clerk