Finance Committee

REPORT OF THE FINANCE COMMITTEE MAY 21, 2014 A meeting of the Finance Committee was held on Wednesday, May 21, 2014, at 7:02 p.m. in the Aldermanic Chamber. Mayor Donnalee Lozeau, Chair, presided. Members of the Committee present: Alderman-at-Large Daniel T. Moriarty, Vice Chair Alderman-at-Large David W. Deane Alderman-at-Large Jim Donchess Alderman Ken Siegel Alderman Paul M. Chasse, Jr. Members not in Attendance: Alderwoman Pamela T. Brown Also in Attendance: Alderman-at-Large Brian S. McCarthy Alderman-at-Large Diane Sheehan (Arrived after roll call) Alderman David Schoneman PUBLIC COMMENT Ed Mooney – 44 ½ Amherst Street, Nashua I rise regarding R-14-030 authorizing the Mayor to enter into a successor concession agreement with the Nashua Collegiate Baseball, Inc. of the Futures Collegiate Baseball League. Fireworks at Holman Stadium that extend beyond 10:00 p.m., or that take place on any day other than Friday or Saturday with the exception of July 4th, are in my experience, hostile. Fireworks set off through the summer of 2012 were particularly objectionable. The city had issued permits to the Silver Knights that violated Chapter 160 of the ordinances. Section II of Chapter 160 states that “it shall be unlawful to use, discharge or display salute, reports, or thunder shell fireworks between 10:00 p.m. and 8:00 a.m.” The permits issued by the city in 2012 allowed salute, report, and thunder shell fireworks until 11:00 p.m. Permits issued last summer fixed that inconsistency by requiring all displays to end by 10:00 p.m. I ask that all permits issued this year be no more permissive than last year and have the same restriction. In addition, I ask that the section “Compliance of Laws” in the concession agreement be amended to require that all fireworks display‟s to end by 10:00 p.m. Eric Brand – East Brook Drive, Nashua No, I‟m not here to talk about the playground. I‟m here to talk in reference to O-14-021 which was referred back to this committee last week. I was reading through the ordinance itself and I had a few concerns. Alderman Siegel had made a comment “anything over $10,000 goes before the Finance Committee which can accept or reject that bid regardless.” The ordinance itself as its written does not necessarily give the Finance Committee any additional directions to follow and it would be misleading to say that it does. I was not quite sure if there should be some additional writing added into the legislation to cover that. I agreed with Alderman McCarthy‟s comments saying that he does disagree that “the Finance Committee can take all of that into account and once we code this ordinance into the ordinances.” It kind of goes back to what Siegel was saying but I just don‟t see how, unless there‟s some written into the legislation, that it actually help the committee make the right decisions. The final part that didn‟t make sense to me was that Alderman Siegel had quoted something that Alderman Deane had said. He said I‟d like to reiterate something that Alderman Deane had said which is that “local businesses do contribute back to local causes and that non-local businesses generally do have the same interests. I think it is reasonable for us to support those local businesses.” Let‟s think about that for a second. There are a lot of businesses that are outside of Nashua that do come back and help support this community. For instance, myself, I donate my Finance – 05/21/14 Page 2 time, financial and other resources to over two dozen different non-profits within this community even though my business is located about ½ mile from the City of Nashua. To push this ordinance through and make it less advantageous for me to be able to win a bid with city and saying that let‟s give back to those businesses that support the city – and typically I would agree with that. I like to support local businesses also but just because my business is ½ mile from the City of Nashua, I don‟t think that‟s fair to somebody else that can and does support the City of Nashua. My fourth and final comment is that I‟m kind of curious to see what the Legal Department's comments would be if this is any discrimination against other businesses as well. COMMUNICATIONS From: Robert Gabriel, Purchasing Manager Re: Contract Award for Safety Improvements to City Parking Garages (Value: $140,268) MOTION BY ALDERMAN SIEGEL TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND AWARD THE CONTRACT TO ADT/TYCO INTEGRATED SECURITY IN THE AMOUNT OF $140,268. FUNDS ARE AVAILABLE IN DEPARTMENT 166, PARKING; CAPITAL PROJECTS FUND, ELM AND HIGH STREET GARAGES RENOVATIONS ON THE QUESTION Mayor Lozeau This is related to discussions that started back in 2011 and 2012. You can tell from Mr. Gabriel‟s memo that the costs associated with updating the cameras in the garages were very prohibitive when it first went out. This process has gone through two IT Directors‟ along with Mr. Sousa from Transit trying to figure out a way to best approach this process. You will note that one of things that have been added is the security for the stairwells. The few problems that we have in the garage tend to be problems with loitering in the stairwells or naughty behavior. We have not had assaults in the garage or bad crimes but we do sometimes have people that feel uncomfortable walking up the stairwells based on some of the behavior that‟s in them. This allows for a provision to put in a key code or a pin system, it could be either or both. So, if you are somebody that leases a space, you are able to have either a number that you can punch in or a swipe badge. The same thing pertains to our employees so that those stairwells would be closed unless you had that. Public parking is currently already allowed on the first floor of both garages so it wouldn‟t impact the public. After hours it could potentially impact the public if they go up to the second floor so we might want to be able to sign it so people understand that they‟ll have to walk from the second floor down the ramp instead of the stairwells. It also allows us to shut off that security if for example there‟s a snow emergency and we open up the garage for parking or if we have event downtown like the Holiday Stroll we can shut it off. It gives us a little bit of control and flexibility. I think it‟s probably most cost affordable if we want to take that approach to do that now rather than later. The camera system is also set up so that it can be monitored by the dispatchers at the Transit Department at Riverside. It also in the Risk Department, it also allows us with at least 30 days of information should the police want to look at it. It would also allow us to add a monitor to the Police Department if we wanted them to have it in the event something was happening they could turn on the monitor and look while somebody is en route to get there. I think this system allows us some flexibility; the Transit Department is pleased with this because they have had a good relationship with this company and what they use it for already. That‟s what is before you tonight. Alderman Moriarty I am generally in favor of this. I have stated on many occasions that the goal of raising the parking rates on Main Street was to create spots to create turnover to create business but the irony is that we are discouraging people from parking on Main Street when we should think more in terms of encouraging people to park off Main Street. This is one of those items that would seem to encourage people to park off of Main Street. The perception is of course, crime. For me, I never worried about it. As a healthy male, I Finance – 05/21/14 Page 3 can run fast but other people do and I appreciate that. Is there any way you can help my case for this by offering some sort of crime statistics in the garages? Mayor Lozeau Alderman Moriarty, I remember back to when we were having conversations around the garages and I was concerned about a headline that left the impression that our garages weren‟t safe. At the time, Chief Connelly was the Police Chief and I asked him if he could give us information and he said very few crimes against people in the sense of assaults; we haven‟t had any of those really horrifying crimes. We have had vandalism and we have had cars broken into and cars that have been left unlocked have been rummaged through. I asked him what I would say if I wanted to tell people how safe our garages were what would you tell me? He said, I‟d let my daughter park there. I thought okay, if the Chief of Police would let his daughter park there then that‟s a good sign that they are safe. I think you hit on what the problem is and that is the perception. It‟s the perception that it‟s not safe so if people saw signage and understood that the garages had cameras and that the stairwells were locked, I think you are right, I think it would encourage people to feel more comfortable being in the garage. Other than that, we don‟t have bad crime statistics. Alderman Donchess The only question I had about it was the locking of the stairwells. If anyone who does not have a coded card parked above the first floor they wouldn‟t be able to use the garage. In that respect, aren‟t we discouraging people from using the garage? Mayor Lozeau I think it helped me when I thought about this to know that if you lease a space in the garage, you can keep it overnight so those are really reserved for the upper floors. The public doesn‟t really go much beyond the second floor. If you‟ve been in the Elm Street garage, to walk from the second floor down to the first floor, it‟s really not like walking a flight like you would in this building, it‟s really just a ramp that walks down so I really don‟t think that‟s as much as a problem as I originally thought it would be when they were trying to sell the idea to me. As long as we notify people. I don‟t want people to get to the second floor and be aggravated that now they find out they have to walk down and maybe they couldn‟t. We really have not had a demand for more spaces that are available on the first floor since I‟ve been here other than when we have big events going on downtown like the night of the Taste, the Stroll, those types of things. We are going to have to count on the staff to be responsible about that. One of the things that we negotiated with the courts to help with problems around the court house for jury duty parking, especially on the first day of the month when everybody gets called in, we worked it out so that when your picked to come in for jury duty, you receive a packet in the mail that gives you a card that goes on your dashboard so when you park in the garage, you would go to the fourth floor and you have that information. One of the things that we‟ll have to do for that group of people is to provide a temporary number that can be applied for their use. Other than that, we really have more empty spaces than you‟d think we would. Alderman Donchess After the system goes in, who is responsible for supervising and monitoring it? Mayor Lozeau The Transit Department, as they are now. Alderman Donchess Will you ask them to be particularly careful to see if this locking of the stairwells has a negative impact on people using the garage? Finance – 05/21/14 Page 4 Mayor Lozeau I will. I also think we should sign it properly so people know. I think that will also answer Alderman Moriarty‟s concern when people see signage in the garage that says things like “camera surveillance”, “24- hours”, “stairwells are not available without”, whatever the proper language might be, I think that will help too. Alderman Siegel I have a lot of problems with this. The first thing is the price. One, there‟s no RFP that I can see associated with this. I know that there was an RFP that was issued. The original bids went from $205,000 + for the winning bidder down to $144,000 which is good but I don‟t know what changed. The other thing, separate from that, the last time we put cameras in our restaurant, we have a 16 camera system, 14 HD cameras with 3 months of HD video that are stored so that all of the installation and all of the equipment soup to nuts was $9,800. Now this is a different system, it‟s a 20 camera HD system which is that different. The major difference since they are both running the networking software would be the length of the conduits up and down the garage area. We are really only putting cameras on the first floor but it wasn‟t clear. Mayor Lozeau No, it‟s more than that. Alderman Siegel Okay so 20 cameras with conduits running up to four floors. For two different sites, we are talking about a difference of almost $100,000. Admittedly it‟s different but it‟s not clear to me because I don‟t see the RFP and I don‟t see how things were broken out. Also, one of the things that are missing in here is that there‟s no reference to the software that‟s going to be used to monitor this. There‟s an assumption that it‟s remote access software, their standards for cameras are H-1-10 but I don‟t know. Who‟s installing the software? Who‟s maintaining it? What is that software? There is a large variety of camera software some of which is wonderful because it runs on a variety of platforms and some of which are propriety and is terrible. Between the price and the lack of clarity to me anyway about the software and what the requirements are, I am missing enough information to determine if this is reasonable. It feels unreasonable to me right now. One last thing, there was a note in here which is somewhat humorous in the RFP. The second line of page 1 said “the vendor must also state whether or not existing lighting is sufficient for proposed security system.” I would suspect that if we can‟t figure out whether or not a human being can walk around in there, then we probably don‟t need a vendor to tell us that. Mayor Lozeau I‟ll start with the last one first. The reason that particular request was made was because an Alderman that used to be on this Board requested that be included in the RFP. We have a light study that‟s been done. We have been working with PSNH because they have some funding available from municipalities and so we are looking at adding some additional lighting. We wanted to make sure that we didn‟t get a camera system that wouldn‟t be able to pick people up because it was too dark or areas that were shadowed. The biggest difference between the original one is – our former IT Director, Mr. Barker, was a very literal person and when you said to him that we want to make sure that we get as much coverage as we should have in order to make sure that if there were something going on, we have the information we need to prosecute from. We have had cameras in the past that could not get clear information like a license plate or a face. When the very first RFP went out, each company was allowed to decide what they thought that would take for coverage so there were far more cameras than we thought we needed in the first one. When the internal finance team looked at it, everybody had sticker shock and said that $250,000 was a little over the top considering that we don‟t have a huge problem there and what we are really after is preventing problems, can‟t we do it more affordably. They went back to the drawing board and in the interim, Mr. Finance – 05/21/14 Page 5 Barker left and Mr. Codagnone came in. Mr. Codagnone and Mr. Sousa went through the original RFP and came to terms with the things that weren‟t needed. We didn‟t need four cameras on every floor with every single angle. We don‟t need to read the license plates of all of the cars that are lined up but that we needed strategic points. All of those things were taken out of the bid and it became very specific to stairwells, entry, and exit points. We also have challenges with the electricity in the garages. We have spent a significant amount of money structurally in the garages over the past few years and what‟s left to be done is primarily electrical work. If you wanted to see the difference between the RFP‟s, I‟d be happy to show you but most of it was from them identifying who they wanted to work with, meeting with those two companies that they thought were credible and going through. The software is software provided by this company who as I said, are in business with now. We have systems at the landfill, at the streets garages, at Greeley Park, and right here in City Hall. Everyone has weighed in on what they think is right and as you can see, a couple of years have been spent on this and this is the best recommendation of the staff that I consider professional looking at this very closely. Alderman Chasse This ramp that an individual would be walking down, do cars also use this ramp? Mayor Lozeau They do and that‟s why we want to make sure that we sign it. Alderman Chasse Is there a sidewalk that‟s attached to that ramp? Mayor Lozeau There is not. Alderman Chasse So they are going to be walking at their own risk. A car could be coming around at the same time they are walking down. Mayor Lozeau That is entirely possible but as I‟ve said, what we have discovered is that people pretty much only use the first floors. They don‟t usually go beyond and signage talks about lease spaces beyond this point and that sort of thing. We don‟t think we‟ll have a problem but we can certainly monitor it and if there is a period time that we want to say like from 5:00 p.m. – 8:00 p.m., leave it unlocked, we could do some of that. We can alter it. If we think it is better open on the weekends because there is more traffic we could that. It allows us the flexibility of lock on/lock off. Those are the things that we have heard from the lease holders and frankly, I think there are enough spaces for the public on the first floor without them having to go further and I‟d be interested in leasing more spaces that I think we‟d be able to lease if they saw a system in place. Alderman Siegel Point of order. I just want to note that Alderman Sheehan has joined us. Finance – 05/21/14 Page 6 Alderman Sheehan Yesterday when we had some electrical down on Temple Street, the Fire Department went around getting people out of elevators. Is there a way that someone with badge, if there‟s an electrical issue, they are able to also use a key code or if the electricity is out they are going to need to walk? Mayor Lozeau If electricity is out, it automatically shuts the elevators off. Alderman Sheehan Right but for the key code for the stairwells, are they going to be all closed because of electric? Do we have someone that can monitor that? Mayor Lozeau We would have somebody during the day but if it happened after hours then that could be a challenge. Alderman Sheehan That‟s my concern. Mayor Lozeau What we could do is put the same information in the Knox Box for fire that they have for the elevator right now. We‟ve had the elevator go out in the garage once or twice. We can also look into whether or not in a power failure it would automatically unlock the stairwell. I‟m sure it could be programmed for something like that. Alderman Sheehan I couldn‟t tell from the information if there is a batter back-up or if it automatically unlocks in the event of electricity loss. Alderman Siegel To follow-up, does that also mean that the cameras are out in the event of power failure or is there a battery back-up system for them also. Mayor Lozeau I‟ll make sure I look into that. Alderman Siegel I didn‟t see that in the RFP and that would probably be an expense item that I would see. Alderman Deane On page 5 it says that “the proposal contains TYCO proprietary and business confidential information.” I would imagine the system is proprietary to begin with so you are absolutely, positively saddled with purchasing whatever you need for replacement from TYCO. Finance – 05/21/14 Page 7 Mayor Lozeau Yes, we are. When looking at this, I think they narrowed it down to only two companies that could do what we are trying to do anyway. It would have been Norris or ADT/TYCO. Alderman Deane It‟s like anything else, if you get an enunciated panel from TYCO Simplex Grinnell and you‟ve got to replace a smoke detector, their smoke detector is $300. Mayor Lozeau It‟s sort of like those Motorola radios. Sometimes you get really stuck and there‟s not another good option. Alderman Deane There are very few options with radios that we looked at. Mayor Lozeau I agree but I think the cameras, and we‟ve done this a lot, trying to find good cameras, and I think that our options are very limited there as well. MOTION CARRIED From: Robert Gabriel, Purchasing Manager Re: Lead Paint Risk Assessment/Inspectional Services Contract Amendment #2 (Value: $46,655) MOTION BY ALDERMAN SIEGEL TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE, AND AUTHORIZE AMENDMENT #2 TO THE CONTRACT WITH ALCHEMY LEAD MANAGEMENT IN AN AMOUNT NOT-TO-EXCEED $46,655. SOURCE OF FUNDING IS DEPARTMENT 184, URBAN PROGRAMS; LEAD HAZARD CONTROL FUND; 54, PROPERTY SERVICES ON THE QUESTION Mayor Lozeau As you can see in the memo, we had contracted with two companies and one company can no longer provide the service so this is taking the remaining grant money for the work that we are committed to provide and moving it to the company that has been doing the work. MOTION CARRIED From: Robert Gabriel, Purchasing Manager Re: Traffic Control Equipment Requested by the Division of Public Works (Value: $27,350) MOTION BY ALDERMAN SIEGEL TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE, AND AWARD THE CONTRACT TO MARLIN CONTROLS IN THE AMOUNT OF $27,350. FUNDS ARE AVAILABLE IN DEPARTMENT 161, STREET; GENERAL FUND OPERATING BUDGET; 71, EQUIPMENT ON THE QUESTION Finance – 05/21/14 Page 8 Alderman Donchess Do you have a timeframe as to when you expect the work to be done on this? Mayor Lozeau I do not. I would be confident that they would be up before the next school year but I can‟t tell you that they will be done before school ends this year. Alderman Siegel I just wanted to note that there is a reason why this was sole sourced. I‟ve done the research on this. The Marlin Controls is actually a reconstruction of what was the old Wink-O-Matic Signs that were out there. While it is sole sourced, the city has experience with this and it seems to be a very attractive solution. MOTION CARRIED From: Robert Gabriel, Purchasing Manager Re: Allds Street Sewer Project Change Order #1 (Value: $9,700) MOTION BY ALDERMAN SIEGEL TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND AUTHORIZE CHANGE ORDER #1 TO THE PROJECT BY AWARDING A CONTRACT TO CRISP CONTRACTING IN THE AMOUNT OF $9,700. SOURCE OF FUNDING IS DEPARTMENT 169, WASTEWATER; WASTEWATER FUND; 54, PROPERTY SERVICES ON THE QUESTION Mayor Lozeau I want to take a moment to thank Mr. Gabriel and the staff that decided to put the brakes on the project when the change order came in at an amount that they didn‟t think was reasonable. They re-bid it out in the middle of the job. I thank the homeowner to who put up with the aggravation but in the end, we saved the city over $10,000 and in the scheme of things while it‟s not millions, it‟s worth saving. Alderman Deane I don‟t know how Mr. Crisp does it but I don‟t think he has any payments on his vehicles any longer. Mayor Lozeau I was asking Mr. Gabriel the same question and what we heard was that he has some of the smaller trench boxes that other companies don‟t have because he is more accustomed to doing the smaller repairs so he doesn‟t have to rent equipment for the smaller space. He is apparently not quite as intimidated as others of getting around the utilities. All‟s Street is much like Burke Street where that connection is really deep. Alderman Deane That‟s why Tom Dins Moore couldn‟t get at it, right? At least he manned up and said that. Mayor Lozeau I appreciated that. MOTION CARRIED Finance – 05/21/14 Page 9 From: Robert Gabriel, Purchasing Manager Re: Plant Capacity Study Requested by Nashua Wastewater Treatment Facility (Value: $83,975) MOTION BY ALDERMAN SIEGEL TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE, AND AWARD THE CONTRACT TO HAZEN AND SAWYER IN AN AMOUNT NOT-TO-EXCEED $83,975. FUNDS ARE AVAILABLE IN DEPARTMENT 169, WASTEWATER; WASTEWATER FUND; 53, PROFESSIONAL & TECHNICAL SERVICES ON THE QUESTION Mayor Lozeau This is something that we really have to be aware of that could potentially be a very expensive cost to the city after the report is complete. You may have read in the memo where it talks about a certain capacity that if you exceed it for more than 90 days, it triggers this requirement from DES. They look at the Waste Water Treatment Plant and this study shows that we have to increase our capacity and that means more space or strategies around how we can treat all of this water. It could be a $100,000 pr oblem or a $20 million problem. You just don‟t know what it is. I just wanted to call your attention to the fact that as the city is growing, and the demand is great, we have a circumstance where we may need to be looking at that and there will be a cost associated with it. Alderman Deane What are our requirements? I mean we take federal money so my understanding is if we take federal money then towns that abut Nashua have the availability to use part of our system because the Federal Government‟s is funding or has provided funds for the facility itself. Like Tyngsboro, they have that north end of Tyngsboro near the Pheasant Lane Mall where they had significant sewer problems and now we are the recipients of all of that. Has the city been approached and is there any documents as to what the flow rates may be or what they are looking for in terms of flow rates from say Hudson or Tyngsboro or Amherst? Mayor Lozeau Hudson is already in our system and Hudson now pays 12.8% of the costs based on the formula that DES and the Federal Government have said is Hudson‟s responsibility. So any capacity increase or anything like that, the amount that they share would go up from that 12.85%. Alderman Deane Let me ask you this. It‟s my understanding and you correct me if I am wrong, that we significant infiltration issues and one of them is the Pennichuck Brook. From what I have heard stated publicly and I could be wrong, is that if we are allowing one million gallons per day of the Pennichuck Brook to flow into sewer system. Mayor Lozeau I cannot either confirm or deny that. Alderman Deane Maybe Alderman McCarthy will remember. Do you remember when we looked at repairing that up on Amherst Street? Finance – 05/21/14 Page 10 Alderman McCarthy The Pennichuck interceptor was looked at being replaced through the airport property and across. I think one million is probably high for that line. The infiltration was about one million gallons a day system wide and about two hundred and fifty thousand of that maybe was from that particular interceptor. It could be higher but that‟s my recollection. Mayor Lozeau That will certainly have to be part of this capacity study to identify where things are coming from where things are coming from and what we assume is coming from Hudson is what‟s coming and if this is a problem we‟d have to look at that. Alderman McCarthy I just want to point out that with regard to that particular interceptor, that‟s water that would otherwise flow into our drinking water supply which we are intercepting and sending directly to the sewage treatment plant. In that particular interceptor, there‟s even more reason to want to fix that. Mayor Lozeau I would agree and so I think we should look at that for that reason and the other. Alderman Deane We did an I&I study a while ago when Corning was looking at going up there. The Public Works Department was all gung ho to go in there and repair that interceptor. There was no choice in the matter, that had to be repaired and the sewer line to handle the capacity of what they had predicted for flow out of that facility had to be put in and increased. It was a significant investment for that company to come and at the end, as we all know, they didn‟t show up. If we are putting in one million gallons a day and of I&I, I mean you are always going to have some of that but if we have a known point of infiltration of what Alderman McCarthy said is a two hundred and fifty thousand gallons of water per day that should be going into our supply pond instead that‟s something we should be fixing. Mayor Lozeau I would agree. I know that we had talked about it before. I recall you bringing it up in a finance meeting before and I remember discussing it with the superintendent and the city engineer and I can‟t recall what the answer was but I‟ll follow up on it. I just wanted to wave the flag on this because I think if this report comes back and says we have to do more, it‟s going to be an expensive endeavor. Alderman Deane Do you mean those 15% sewer rate increases are going to be every year instead of every other year? Mayor Lozeau I don‟t know. Alderman Deane I‟m almost positive that we did an I&I study. Finance – 05/21/14 Page 11 Mayor Lozeau I know that there was something done and I remember them responding me and I left that conv ersation thinking that there was really nothing that we had to do at that point. Alderman Deane Like I had said earlier, I am of the understanding since we do take federal money that we are required by law to give a percentage of capacity of our plant to these abutting towns. Mayor Lozeau If available. Hudson is in there so we could never say to Hudson that we are at capacity and you have to go out. We don‟t have to say to Tyngsboro that you can come in. We only have to do that if we have the capacity to allow them into the system. Not all of Hudson comes into Nashua and so there were conversations about switching some of the communities that come in. For example, could Hudson go into Dracut and could Tyngsboro come into Nashua. What would that mean? Tyngsboro approached us for the part pretty far beyond the Pheasant Lane Mall at the Olive Garden, when their septic system failed; they were looking to be able to find out if they could get into our system. The answers about capacity couldn‟t be done fast enough to respond to them so they ended up replacing their septic system. Alderman Deane Isn‟t the Olive Garden built on top of a rock? It makes you wonder what kind of percolation rate they have and why their septic system didn‟t last. Mayor Lozeau We also have places in our city that are not in our system. Not a lot but I‟d be interested in looking at getting our city all hooked in before I… Alderman Deane I lived in a house that wasn‟t on city sewer and it was the last house on West Hollis Street. Mayor Lozeau There are pockets of areas and we often do review and it‟s usually when someone new moves into a house and then finds out they have a septic problem. What inevitably happened and what happened off of Ridge Road is we discovered that three or four of the people on the street had just replaced their septic so they weren‟t willing to contribute to the cost of putting in city sewer and the ones that were faced with replacing their septic, were interested. That‟s usually what the pattern is. Alderman Deane I thought if the sewer line was installed and it ran by the house you were required to tie into it. Mayor Lozeau Right but it‟s also required that if it doesn‟t run by the house and you want to put one in that goes up your street…. Finance – 05/21/14 Page 12 Alderman Deane That‟s a different situation. Mayor Lozeau That‟s what I am referring to. Alderman Moriarty How does Hudson share our sewage system? They are on the other side of the Merrimack River, how does the water go across the Merrimack River? Alderman Deane Through a pipe. Alderman Moriarty Under the river? Mayor Lozeau Yes. We do share that river and neither one of us want to dump into it. That‟s really EPA and DES, they don‟t see the lines of towns and communities, they see this is where yours would go and this is how we solve the problem. Like I said, I just wanted to wave the flag and I‟m hopeful that it comes back and says that our capacity is fine but I‟m not making any promises. MOTION CARRIED UNFINISHED BUSINESS – RESOLUTIONS – None UNFINISHED BUSINESS - ORDINANCES O-14-021 Endorsers: Alderman Ken Siegel Alderman-at-Large David W. Deane Alderman Michael Soucy Alderman David Schoneman ESTABLISHING A LOCAL PREFERENCE Re-Referred to Committee – 5/13/14 MOTION BY ALDERMAN SIEGEL TO RECOMMEND FINAL PASSAGE ON THE QUESTION Alderman Siegel Just to start off, I‟d like to state, for the record, that obviously there are some people here that have some objections at our full Board meeting, I am eagerly awaiting any ideas that are had and hopefully we can come up with something that solves problems for everyone. Mr. Brand, I hear you and I understand your concern. I‟m quite pleased it wasn‟t a concern about Legacy Playground and I do appreciate your contributions to the City of Nashua. Finance – 05/21/14 Page 13 Alderman McCarthy I have agreed to offer some amendments which I‟d like to hand out. I had actually made these up with changes tracked and somewhere between there and where they got printed became just flat copy. In section on Local Preference, A-1, I changed the wording from “shall” to “may” because I don‟t think we should always be required to this if there is a disparity in the price. I also moved the limits in there so that it reflected the price of the low bid and stated the overage in positive numbers. I don‟t think that makes any tremendous semantic difference to the end but it does remove a definition that we don‟t need. Alderman Siegel It is an actual mathematical difference though. Alderman McCarthy A slight difference, yes. The question is do you do it based on what the bid is that you are receiving or the one that‟s the low bid. It does make a slight difference there, I agree. Paragraph 2 doesn‟t change at all. Paragraph 3, I added so that we were protected from someone saying “no, you have to give me higher priced contract.” It simply says nothing shall create a requirement to give a local preference if in the opinion of, and I‟m actually going to propose where it says City Purchasing Manager, that we change that to be Selecting Authority, quality performance or service would be sacrificed by the exercise of such preference which allow us to say yeah, the local vendor was only 2 ½ % higher but we don‟t have good experience with them or there are other reasons why we don‟t want to do business with them. The reason I say Selecting Authority is because I realized on the way down here that in the case of school construction contracts those are not done through the Purchasing Department and while the guidelines of things should come from the city Purchasing Department, the evaluation of individual contracts is often done by people who are not the Purchasing Manager. I changed the definition of local to be closer to what we are looking for which is a place that has a substantial place of business in the city but not necessarily their primary place of business. A business that employs a substantial number of residents of the city or is owned by a resident of Nashua or is otherwise believed to bring substantial benefit to the local economy of the City of Nashua, which I think gives us some flexibility to decide what local means and who we thank really is local for our purposes. Paragraphs C-1 and C-2 changed did not change. I did change paragraph C-3 and I‟m not sure this gets entirely to the heart of the issue yet but, we have an issue with sub-contracts, for example when we hire a construction manager who is outside of Nashua but the electrical contracts come in, we want to be able to give a local preference in the sub-contracts to Nashua businesses or in a large contract which employs primarily Nashua sub-contracts. I chose that to read “the principle bidder or sub-contractor‟s portion of the bid exceeds 50% of the value of the contract may qualify an offer for preference.” It includes sub-contracts if they are substantial. I don‟t want to do it so it‟s a $100,000 contract and there‟s a $5,000 sub in Nashua but if it‟s a $100,000 contract and $60,000 of it is subbed to a Nashua company I think that would resolve that. I think that is the scope of the changes. The only thing I was a little concerned about is we actually award the sub-contracts separately in school construction so we award the GMP contract through a construction manager and then we oversee the selection of the sub-contractors by the – I think this gives us the flexibility to continue doing that and to do it the right way. That takes care of the issue that I had noted. Mayor Lozeau Can someone please give Mr. Gabriel a clean copy so he can make a copy it? Alderman Chasse I guess this is a question to Alderman McCarthy. Will this keep us out of the courts? Finance – 05/21/14 Page 14 Alderman McCarthy I believe it will keep us out of court. Well, nothing will keep us out of court but I believe it will make us come home from court earlier and more successful. The provisions that we would have to defend are as defensible in this as they are in the original legislation. Mayor Lozeau Alderman Chasse, you remember at the last Finance meeting, Mr. Gabriel joined us and talked a little bit about the different challenges but we do believe that something can be crafted that would withstand a legal challenge. I mean absolutely, people can sue us but that hasn‟t been our primary concern. Alderman Chasse It was kind of ironic that you read the Telegraph today and in the Letter by the Editor mentioned San Diego, Miami, and some other place that have this and they drafted it up and unfortunately, I didn‟t get a chance to text Alderman Siegel and tell him to do his homework and see exactly how theirs was written because I guess theirs is pretty cut and dry and it would have been nice if we could have got something at least to go by to say yes, we are going in the right direction. I would say this is not something we have to pass tonight but I‟m all for it. I‟m a firm believer that this should have been done a long time ago and let‟s do it right I guess is what I am trying to say. Mayor Lozeau I would just add to that and say that I think that all of us like the concept of a local preference whether it‟s in Nashua or the surrounding area. We looked at it more than six years ago and what I was going to potentially propose tonight depending on how the conversation went is that we have an ordinance that talks about that we have to have a purchasing manual and it talks about specific things that we should cover, much the same as our financial policies. It seems to me that the local preference that was drafted might actually allow the flexibility and discretion that we could have in the ordinance saying that we will have a policy on it as part of our purchasing manual. The devil is always in the details and that‟s where we always seem to get stuck. Alderman McCarthy I tend agree with a lot of that and I did take a look at Google about some of the ones that exist. I think that the numbers that Alderman Siegel had in the original one are used in a number of places, the 103% and 105% rules. If you get right down to it, there is actually new statutory requirements that on us that we use competitive bidding. There is a provision in the Charter that says we will do things generally by competitive bidding where practical and you could get into lots of semantics with what the word practical means. The bottom line is that anyone could sue you and some people will. The question is how you come away from that in the end. I just want to relate that when we equipped the two high schools we put out a bid for printing presses. We have a vocational facility that‟s trying to get a breadth of equipment so the kids get a lot of experience with different stuff. So we really want vendor A‟s press so we select that one. Then vendor B comes in and says well I gave you the cheapest price on a printing press. Vendors B purpose is that they want us to have vendor A‟s presses because the more kids we teach to use vendors A press, the more popular it is in the industry. They would rather us have us have there‟s, which by the way, we already have one of. We never got to the point of being challenged in court on that but I did have to tell all of those guys to go out in the parking lot one night when they got it at the meeting. I think it‟s certainly defensible to say that we will pick the lowest bidder unless this and we may not, if this other condition exists which is the local preference. I don‟t want to see us trapped into having to pick one because it fits our definition of local preference but doesn‟t fit the intent of what we are trying to do with the purchasing ordinance which is to get the best deal for the taxpayers and for the city. The general thought behind local preference is when we invest that we are going to send the money back into the local economy and if you have a case where yes, Finance – 05/21/14 Page 15 they fit the letter of law but every dollar you spend is going to leave the state the next day. Well, that doesn‟t really fit what we had in mind so I think this is defensible. I do agree that we ought to be very careful about how we word this. There are things that I think should be in the purchasing guidelines which are things like the process for establishing yourself as a local vendor. I think it‟s reasonable to say that the Purchasing Manager will set up a way you do that so that people who think they are going to bid with the city can pre-qualify as local vendors and not have to do that every time they send us something which reduces work all. The limits on the local preference number, I suspect we are better off to have coded in the ordinance rather than leave them up to rule making. I think what‟s in here pretty much covers that. We might want to take one more meeting and figure out what we think ought to be in the purchasing guidelines rather than the ordinance itself. Alderman Siegel Thank you, Alderman McCarthy, I think several of your changes are very creative and I applaud them. I‟ll make a couple of comments based on my conversations with legal just to clarify some things. In Section A, item #3, where you are talking about the selecting authority, I did have that conversation with legal and they said that is already in existing ordinances but I am not sure that there is any harm in leaving it in there and so we probably we like to bounce that off legal because I kind of like the idea also. Especially where you are identifying selecting authority which could be the Finance Committee or the full Board of Alderman and I think that‟s fine. As far as the break points – the one comment that I had on my own legislation, which I realize is sort of an anomaly, is that the way the original legislation was worded, it was $10,000 or more, it really should be less than $10,000. If you really want to use the model of the Finance Committee, it should be under $10,000 as the 5% and $10,000 or over – because it‟s in the weird nether region where one penny sort of gets 5% and goes to the Finance Committee. I just thought that was kind of unusual. Your change in Section A, item #1, I suspect that given the amount of confusion about the correction factor that your proposal to use the percentages the way you worded them might end up being clearer to people based on every conversation that I have seemed to have had with the Telegraph or other people so maybe we should see how yours goes. I think the math works out slightly differently but we have a certain intent, we are not trying to micro hone this to the point where that level of mathematical difference is really what would drive anything. As a personal preference, I am fine with the changes you are making at this point with the stipulation that they are bounced off of legal and make sure they are ok. Also, by the way, in definition #1, we are talking about the locality to Nashua and it‟s interesting that an extended conversation with legal about how best to define that and we couldn‟t come up with a clear idea that would scope beyond Nashua so I appreciate that and I like the idea. Also, to Mr. Brand‟s point, I do actually agree that your business is principally – you benefit from Nashua but you also are a benefit to Nashua so I think this would address those concerns hopefully. Alderman Donchess I was thinking about the same definition in #1 that Alderman Siegel was just referring to. Does the kind of looseness of the definition create any problems for us? For example, “employs a substantial number” which could be 5% or 95%, who decides that? “Principally owned by residents of Nashua, that could be 25% or that could be 90%, I mean who knows what that really means? Should we provide any definition to those looser or any specificity to those looser definitions? Mayor Lozeau I‟m going to start by asking Alderman McCarthy to answer because it‟s his language and then Alderman Siegel can speak after that if he‟d like. Alderman McCarthy I first want to comment that mine doesn‟t actually address what happens with $10,000 exactly. It needs the words “or more” at the end of the first paragraph. With regard to the definitions, I think what we want to do Finance – 05/21/14 Page 16 is to keep them qualitative but not give exact numbers because if we are challenged, if someone comes in and says well, that company only five employees from Nashua and therefore they don‟t get a local preference, we can‟t go back and say by the way, you have none. What it boils down to is you are going to have the successful bidder and the challenger and you want the criteria to be such that you can say the successful bidder demonstrates more of that than you do and that‟s why we picked them. I think no matter what number you put in there, you are still going to get the challenges but you build in the ability to lose some of them that you wouldn‟t have if you are a little more ambiguous about it and express the intent rather than an absolute number. Alderman Siegel I think we have some good changes here, at least I think they are reasonable but I also think that we have some questions that are very reasonable that Alderman Donchess phrased and we are not lawyers here in this particular field of expertise. I think it probably makes sense to table it as is. I think we should take these suggestions and bounce off of legal and rather than have an extended vote and then have to bring it before the full Board. Let‟s find out what legal would say to these types of changes to the ordinance and then come back and discuss it some more because I don‟t think there‟s a real urgency to getting this done this evening. Mayor Lozeau I would agree. I also think that an opinion from the Purchasing Manager and the CFO would be beneficial to the discussing as well. Perhaps Alderman McCarthy and Alderman Siegel can work together around some of the language. Questions that occur to you outside of tonight‟s discussion would be helpful to get to legal and Mr. Gabriel and Mr. Griffin, I think it would be helpful for us to hear your thoughts relative to what‟s been proposed as well. Alderman Moriarty I wonder if you could talk about my idea that I have the feeling that we should consider putting a cap. Granted it says that a local preference may be applied so we can ultimately do whatever we want. The anecdotal evidence that seems to be the best one that we use to justify this is the $1.00 or $2.00 difference on a small bid of a local vendor type of thing where it can become substantial compared to the size of the contract. But, if it‟s a $10 million bid they generally have full-time arm holding service the whole time and in that case, maybe the cost savings of remaining local may not be quite the same and also at that point, then you can kind of keep it within restraint. Alderman Siegel Since I did have this discussion with legal, I was concerned that as contracts get larger you get this escalating difference to the point where clearly, local preference isn‟t going outweigh the large gaps for big contracts and according to the Legal Department, and we are going to bounce this off of them again to confirm that, what we will call on this, using Alderman McCarthy‟s, the selecting authority does have the opportunity to override that so in that sense, and even better than a hard cap, there‟s a pragmatic cap and in the event that there‟s under $10,000, that amount can‟t exceed $500,000 even under worst case conditions of 5% out of a $10,000 bid. I think that your idea of a cap naturally falls out with the authority that does the select, that‟s according to legal anyway. Alderman Sheehan I think what you suggested with purchasing is relevant. I know that some other things that we have worked on in the past, we set the policy but we have to let the people doing their jobs come up with how it‟s implemented. I think having some sort of qualification that‟s a yearly renewal stating that you are a bidder. People move and businesses evolve so I think that should be something that is addressed over time. I think Finance – 05/21/14 Page 17 the definition of local was my concern and “shall” versus “may” being a consideration. I think we can get into minutia on defining local, I think this gives the person who would come up with how it‟s implemented the ability to do that. When we look at doing that it needs to be reviewed periodically and not just it‟s done once and then it‟s forever. Alderman Schoneman I wanted to address the notion of objectivity in the definition versus subjectivity. I think that if we are trying to do this to give this benefit to a local vendor then I think that we need to try to make sure that there is some sense of objectivity and not just subjectivity. We have some subjectivity right now based on our ability to direct a purchase who is not the lowest bidder. We could grant that now so regarding the use of this to substantiate a personal preference on behalf of the selecting authority – I just think we need to be careful that some of the objectivity remains in it. MOTION BY ALDERMAN CHASSE TO TABLE R-14-021 MOTION CARRIED NEW BUSINESS – RESOLUTIONS R-14-030 Endorsers: Alderman-at-Large David W. Deane Alderman David Schoneman Alderman Richard A. Dowd Alderman-at-Large Brian S. McCarthy AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO ENTER INTO A SUCCESSOR “CONCESSION AGREEMENT” WITH NASHUA COLLEGIATE BASEBALL, INC. OF THE FUTURES COLLEGIATE BASEBALL LEAGUE Also assigned to Board of Public Works; Favorable Recommendation Issued 05/20/14 MOTION BY ALDERMAN SIEGEL TO RECOMMEND FINAL PASSAGE ON THE QUESTION Alderman Chasse Even if you go into the agreement and you say no fireworks after 10:00 p.m., it‟s going to happen. When the ball game goes and you tell people that bought tickets that you are going to have fireworks and it goes into extra innings, it‟s going to happen. You‟ve got to do one of two things. You have to say no fireworks during the course of the week, preferably just on weekends. The neighbors might not be that upset with that. Or, if they do have them after 10:00 p.m., you hit them with a fine. I don‟t think you really want to do that because you are trying to get people to the ballpark and you want to make everybody happy but you‟ve got to do something. Or, you could propose that if the ball game goes into extra innings stop the game and let the fireworks go off and then go back to the game. I hate to be the bad guy here but no fireworks would be the solution to the problem. Mayor Lozeau I‟ve learned that first of all, when the team purchases the fireworks, they also purchase the time of our fire staff that has to be on-site. Once that first shell and carried out where it‟s going to go off, there has to be fire staff on-site. It‟s also important to note that their busiest night‟s are the night‟s when they have fireworks which is why they incur the expense. However, I agree that it‟s reasonable for the neighborhood to not hear fireworks during the week late at night. Mr. Mooney and I discovered that the permit that has to be pulled by the ball team says that based on the city ordinance, you can‟t have them after 10:00 p.m. unless it‟s a Finance – 05/21/14 Page 18 city sponsored event. For years, we consider the baseball games at Holman‟s Stadium city sponsored because we have an agreement with the ball team to be there. If you look at the true definition of city sponsored, it‟s not. So, we changed that. The ball team wasn‟t excited about that but this past year; they managed to make it work. There were a couple of close calls and I said I would take the hit for it if you decide to pull the trigger at 9:50 p.m. and it‟s 10:05 p.m. when they are done but you really should be shooting for 9:45 p.m. and they shouldn‟t be longer than 10 or 15 minutes. I don‟t have an objection to putting it in the agreement because it is what they are willing to agree to but I also don‟t have an objection to leaving it out as long as the fire permit understands that this is not a city sponsored event. As long as their sensitive to it and are willing to follow it, I think it‟s a fair thing to ask. Alderman Siegel I completely agree with not having the fireworks past 10:00 p.m. but this is a concession agreement so I like the idea of keeping the fireworks permit as the acting authority and keeping that out of a concession agreement. This is really about how we divide profits, what they get to sell and when. That‟s outside the scope of whether fireworks go off or not. Alderman Schoneman I like the idea of stopping at 10:00 p.m. and I agree that it should be based on the fireworks permitting rather than the contract. I wonder if they would consider beginning the games a little bit earlier on a fireworks night. How many fireworks nights do they have? Mayor Lozeau Typically nine and I did ask about staring earlier and based on their numbers, starting earlier doesn‟t work; they have tried and saw a decline in attendance. You want to have a time that everybody is used to so 7:05 p.m. is the game time. If you start having games on fireworks night early, people show up at 7:00 p.m. and say “what do you mean, the game has already started?” That‟s how they presented it to me. Alderman Schoneman Okay, well, then I think the 10:00 p.m. deadline is good for the community nearby. I have received a lot of calls from folks in Ward 3 and Holman Stadium is in Ward 3. One of the issues that people have expressed is the issue of alcohol on July 4th. Holman Stadium is open for free to the public on July 4 th. People are not buying tickets for the event and buying a ticket would make it a semi-private event so having alcohol service for a regular game is enjoyable for many people. But, for non-game events when the park is open free to the public it makes it an open event as if it were on the street even though it‟s inside the fence. Given the nature of the July 4th event being family orientated and open to the public, the feeling was that there should be no alcohol served on July 4th. I checked with the police department to see if there was unruly conduct happening and there‟s really nothing, just a few instances so it‟s not a crime problem that we are trying to solve but there is an element of it being a family event. I mean you don‟t take kids to a bar and if the door is open and we are doing activities in there, it‟s like taking kids to a bar. The financial impact doesn‟t seem that great based on the numbers. Not having alcohol service could benefit the community and not cause much of a loss of revenue. Alderman Deane The firework issue, am I correct that if they don‟t hit the curfew as described currently by law, they don‟t go off? Mayor Lozeau That‟s correct. 10:00 p.m. Finance – 05/21/14 Page 19 Alderman Deane What happens if they set them off anyhow? I think it‟s a gamble for them because they have to make the investment, the company has to set them up in the afternoon, the fire marshal or designee has to be there so if they know the display is 10 minutes long and it 9:52 p.m., they are not setting them off. Then they have to pay the fire marshal to dismantle it and take it. Mayor Lozeau We agreed that if there was a window of time where you assume it‟s a 10 minute show and its 8 minutes out the way you‟ve described, go ahead with them if you can start before 10:00 p.m. If it‟s right before 10:00 p.m. don‟t do it, the opportunity is gone. They have been really great about it. It‟s when it starts at 10:30 or 10:40 when they shot them off. You‟ve got kids waiting all night to see the fireworks. It‟s a courtesy thing and we‟ve had great luck with the Silver Knights, they have never fought back and I think it has worked out well. Alderman Deane But most of the fireworks shows are on Friday‟s aren‟t they. Mayor Lozeau Generally, but not necessarily. Alderman Deane They have nine of the? Mayor Lozeau Yes, between six and nine of them. Alderman Deane I can hear them from my house but they are not as loud as they used to be. However, the sound system is very loud. Sometimes I‟ll go over there and the sound system will be pegged and I‟ll ask them to turn it down. I talked to Nick Caggiano about it and it‟s not as bad as it has been in the past but they‟d put music on and send it out to Concord Street. With your discussions with Mr. Mooney, is he happy with not adding language to this concession agreement pertaining to the fireworks? Mayor Lozeau His preference is to add it to hear but I think that he would agree that this past year they were in compliance. I sent Mr. Mooney copies of the permits from the fire marshal that shows the time and that‟s taken care of the problem. I think as long as it‟s the Silver Knights we are not going to have a problem. Alderman Deane What recourse through the ordinance do we have? That falls under life safety, right? Mayor Lozeau Fire would be able to enforce the permit that was violated and they have the right to not issue another one. Finance – 05/21/14 Page 20 Alderman Deane Well, yeah, but where does it say that? Mayor Lozeau I don‟t know. Alderman Deane There‟s no penalty displayed in the ordinance. Mayor Lozeau No but I think the Fire Department has the discretion for somebody that‟s violated a permit and then tries to come back for another one to say they won‟t issue it but I don‟t know that. I would suggest finding that out, pass the agreement, sign this year‟s permits with the same agreement that we had last year and if we want to put a sidebar agreement together for the Silver Knights to sign, I am confident that they would be willing to sign it, not happily but I think they would sign it. Alderman Deane I always thought that we had no authority over the fire department. Mayor Lozeau I agree. Alderman Deane The building department doesn‟t either; nobody does because when you are dealing with life safety codes or permits, they hold the big sticks. I understand the issues being raised about this and this group has been good to work with. I‟ve seen a big difference in the mentality of the people that are running the organization, there‟s been tremendous change. Collegiate baseball is a different animal, it‟s like going to the carnival but there happens to be a baseball game going on. I‟d like to talk to the fire department and ask them what their position on this is. This is government, people want this in writing. It‟s a significant investment for them, they don‟t control the time of a baseball game. Once they make the investment of hiring the firm to set-up a show and pay the fire marshal and then they run out of time and can‟t do it, they are out quite a bit of money. They are a small organization. I tend to agree with Alderman Siegel, this is a concession agreement. Although they have started to comply with the ordinance they didn‟t previously. Maybe they weren‟t aware of it. Mayor Lozeau They didn‟t comply with it because it wasn‟t on their permit. Fire was under the assumption that it was a city sponsored event and they can go beyond 10:00 p.m. That‟s how it was done for many years. It‟s not a city sponsored event. Alderman Deane It‟s still under the umbrella of the park department though and I believe the ordinance says that all parks will close at 10:00 p.m. Finance – 05/21/14 Page 21 Mayor Lozeau I‟m just telling you how the fire department interpreted it. A closer look and a conversation with the fire marshal is what indicated that to me which is why we changed it to say it‟s not a city sponsored event and they are paying rent to be there. Like I said, the baseball team wasn‟t happy but they managed to comply. Alderman Siegel Separate from the fire marsahll, there are noise ordinances and on the weekdays you cannot violate those after 10:00 p.m. so that‟s another avenue for enforcement and there are specific penalties. We don‟t control the police department either but if you call them they are supposed to address that. Regarding the July 4 th beer sales, I believe if there had been an identified problem, it would be worth investigating but I‟m very sympathetic to the vendor, they make a significant amount of money on this and are probably operating on very thin margins as it is. To take that opportunity to earn that revenue away without a real justifiable reason, I think is a little questionable. I am sympathetic to the intent but I don‟t think it‟s a good idea to do without a demonstrated problem. June Caron had asked that the signage be covered. It‟s the responsibility of the city to cover the alcohol related signage for the high school games. Alderman Deane I spoke to the athletic director about the signs. When the signs first went out there, NHIAA, the New Hampshire Interscholastic Athletic Association events that were held at Holman Stadium, those signs were all to be covered. Then I decided I was going to go look in their facilities handbook. I spent a little bit of time stumbling and bumbling through their website and I couldn‟t‟ find anything in there. The only thing I found in there pertaining to tobacco and alcohol was there was to be no advertising on the fields or in handbooks for sales thereof. It didn‟t say anything about the field. It was just sales thereof in a brochure booklet for a tournament or advertising around concessions. I called the athletic director up and what I got for a reason was the school district doesn‟t own the ball field or the stadium. The city does. The city doesn‟t have to cover those signs. If it were school district owned property such as Stellos Stadium, north or south high school fields, they would have to abide by the rules that are set in the NHIAA guidelines pertaining to alcohol and tobacco. I told the athletic director that when the Pride first went in there and alcohol was brought up, one of the big issues was when all the younger ballplayers are playing in there; all the signs are to be covered. The city did at that time take huge blue tarps and drops them back and forth over those signs during those youth games so they weren‟t there. Now I‟m being told that since the school district doesn‟t have authority over that facility, they don‟t have to be covered. I think they should be. Alderman Siegel stated that the Mayor said that she was going to have them covered or that public works was going to cover them or the park department. Is that going to happen? Mayor Lozeau What we talked about was if that‟s a requirement, that‟s our responsibility and we would do it. It sounds like it‟s not required. The question is do we want to do it. If we want to do it, whether it‟s required or not, the city will take on that responsibility. Alderman Deane I think we should do it. When you look at all the billions of dollars that are spent on these campaigns against drunk driving and here we are advertising it for what affect it may have on those kids or not is beside the point. We did it in the past and then for some reason we stopped. I think it would be nice to find some way to cover those without a lot of pain. That‟s just my opinion. I just remember when everything first started there, they were covered. I used to walk over there to watch the high school games and those signs were always covered. That was the reason I got: the city owns the field, owns the facility, not the school district. Finance – 05/21/14 Page 22 Alderman Donchess To me both requests seem reasonable. First of all in the agreement we have a provision saying th at the team will comply with all laws which includes the ordinance that fireworks shall not be discharged after 10 o‟clock. I don‟t know what harm it would do to include a specific reference to that law. It would probably make Mr. Mooney feel more comfortable and anyone else who shares his viewpoint. To me that seems reasonable. The idea that we would not sell alcohol on the Fourth of July in the stadium, to me also seems reasonable because normally we do not allow the sale of alcohol in city parks. There‟s an exception for Holman Stadium but that‟s because of these baseball games and more private events. The Fourth of July celebration is not like the baseball games and the concerts that used to be held there and the like. It is an event where all people, kids are invited to come. It seems to me applying the more general rule in that situation that alcohol should not be sold is a reasonable request. Mayor Lozeau My husband and I did the concessions years ago before I was the Mayor obviously. I seem to recall that there was something about the liquor laws. It could only be sold at a ticketed event. A baseball game, you buy a ticket, you go in and have the beer and that sort of thing. I think for the Fourth of July they limit it. You are corralled in a certain area. I remember working the Fourth of July event. You have to buy a ticket to be in this certain area, the beer garden or whatever, where you‟re allowed to buy a ticket, be in there and drink your beer. You‟re not allowed to be walking through the Fourth of July event carrying a beer. I think people don‟t necessarily realize that. That‟s one of the reasons that you haven‟t seen a lot of instances of the police reporting that there‟s been a problem. People just don‟t go and hang out in that general area. They are usually off with their kids. It‟s away from where most people would be or they risk their liquor license. I was trying to look up the provisions because I used to be able to get that document from when we did it. I think that‟s something important too. The amount of police at the Fourth of July event is almost like the whole entire department is there. I think that plays into it too. Alderman Schoneman There‟s a separate beer garden inside the park. Mayor Lozeau For the Fourth of July, not for the ball games. Alderman Schoneman I understand that. I go to ball games. I have not been to the Fourth of July celebration over there. You have to buy a ticket to get into that section. Mayor Lozeau Exactly. Alderman Schoneman Are there chairs and tables and that kind of thing set up? Mayor Lozeau There‟s not a lot set up. I think they have probably a few picnic tables and maybe a standup area. It‟s generally down by the lower concession where they have kind of a standup area where you can eat your hot dog or whatever. It‟s limited into that general area. You can‟t pack a lot of people in there. What I Finance – 05/21/14 Page 23 recall being the experience is people would buy a couple of tickets. They would go in there and have a beer or two and then they would go out to the event. Alderman Schoneman The ticket that the person buys is that a drink ticket or is it a ticket to admission and then you buy the drink after that? Mayor Lozeau They can buy a certain amount of drink tickets that can only be used in that area. You can‟t leave that area. They have to have a police officer in that area. Alderman Schoneman So it‟s not necessarily an admission ticket. It‟s a drink ticket. Mayor Lozeau Right. Anybody can come into the stadium for free but they can‟t‟ go into this area unless you show it. I have two beer tickets, I‟m going in. You can‟t come out with the beer. It‟s similar to what was done downtown a few times at the Holiday Stroll. They roped off an area. They hired a police officer and they had beer. You had to buy tickets to get in and then redeem them for your beer. You couldn‟t walk out of that area with a beer down Main Street. That‟s really how it‟s been handled know that on some level in your head you think why would we ever want people sell beer at a city event like the Fourth of July. I would agree if it was just how could you possibly manage to control how much somebody had to drink when they are sitting out by the third baseline and you don‟t know how many beers they‟ve had. It‟s very different when you put it in a controlled environment. I happen to be one of those people that think people can have a beer at a family centered event. We should teach our children that you can drink alcohol responsibly. When I‟d go to dinner with my children, I would not have a glass of wine because they were at dinner with me and they were 16. It‟s the same sort of responsibility, I guess. Alderman Schoneman Buying a drink ticket qualifies as making it a ticketed event? Mayor Lozeau It‟s ticketed in that… Alderman Schoneman I understand what you‟re saying. I just find that surprising. It sounds like it‟s a work-around. I think going to a baseball game to watch a game is a ticketed event. You buy an admission ticket and then if you want a drink you go and you get it additionally to that. This ticketed event, the beer garden, it‟s really just a drink ticket. It becomes ticketed because it‟s the only way to get into the area. It‟s not like somebody would buy a ticket and go stand there and hang out with their friends and not drink. Mayor Lozeau It also has to be approved by the Liquor Enforcement. Finance – 05/21/14 Page 24 Alderman Schoneman So this procedure is approved by Liquor Enforcement? Mayor Lozeau Exactly. Alderman Schoneman And that‟s a state function. Alderman Chasse If you really look at it, they‟re not buying a beer. There‟s a little table that‟s out before the beer garden. You buy your tickets there. If I want five beers, I buy five tickets. I‟m really not buying a beer. I‟m buying a ticket to get a beer and it‟s controlled. It‟s right there. It‟s on the right field line. You can‟t get out if you have a beer in your hand. Mayor Lozeau Sounds like an experienced attendee. I‟m not convinced you can buy five tickets. Alderman Schoneman I have just one comment on the level of business that is generated from alcohol sales. It looks like in the fiscal note here in the legislation that the city receives 40 percent net profits from concessions that are non- game events. Our 40 percent share which I presume included last July 4th is $3,084. Did it include last July 4th? It sounds like a small amount of money if our 40 percent share is for all these events including July 4 th is $3,000. Mayor Lozeau I would imagine it did include the Fourth of July but you have to remember that it‟s net. After the cost of all of the food and beer and staff and rooms and meals tax, when it‟s all done, we look at the profit and go this 40 percent is yours, 60 percent is ours. They aren‟t selling unbelievable amounts. Alderman Schoneman I understand which is the point I think I‟m making. If this is a money maker for the franchise, they aren‟t making a lot of money. They are covering their costs and making a little bit of money on top of it. It‟s not a lot of money. I don‟t know how much they make from beer but I understand your points. Maybe the people who raise these issues didn‟t know that. I‟m not sure, but I stand by the comment. Alderman Siegel With regard to Alderman Donchess‟ concern about it being a family event, it seems to me that if anything a baseball game is at least as much a family event and there‟s less restriction on what you can do with beer. We‟re okay with that and it‟s really very much oriented towards family. I see the July 4th setup is much more constrained in that there‟s a beer garden. It‟s very, very controlled by the police. I‟m inclined to say it‟s probably okay. Finance – 05/21/14 Page 25 Alderman Deane I found it. The NHIAA has radio policies and television policies. What it states is sponsors of telecasts must not be persons or businesses involved with tobacco and alcoholic beverages and related products. It goes for the same thing with the radio. Alderman Donchess What are you reading from? Alderman Deane This is the NHIAA policies of a setting. Mayor Lozeau Whether or not we cover up the signs. Alderman Deane For schools, not just the high schools, for all the schools that participate. The television policy is the same way. Then you‟re not allowed to have any advertisement or any brochures. Alderman Donchess The section 12, private boxes, says that the city shall retain the right to utilize one large center suite for all franchisor games, non-league games and non-game events. The city also retains the right to use all private boxes for its annual Fourth of July Fireworks event. What I figured out in the last couple of days is it has been the custom, and I‟m not sure how long that has existed, for basically the Mayor to control these boxes. I remember I went to a baseball game in the box next to eh Mayor‟s box and I was a guest. The people said the Mayor‟s box is right next door. I figured the Mayor is buying a box. I didn‟t really think much about it until the last couple of days when I started looking at this agreement. I don‟t know if that‟s really the case but it seems to me that if it is, there should be more general access to the city box. It could be done in a number of ways. We could have certain nights for certain wards. We could do it by lottery. The aldermen could have certain access. I‟m not really saying the aldermen should control it. Maybe we sell it out and we keep the money. I just don‟t think however long this custom has existed, I don‟t know, but I think this is like city property. I don‟t‟ think it is appropriate for the Mayor to control access to the city box. Mayor Lozeau Good news. The Mayor doesn‟t control access to it. If you go on the Silver Knights website, you see that center box called the community box. I encourage them to rent it out every chance they get. I have rented it once for a retirement party for a city employee and we paid the rental fee and we did what we were going to do in there. The only time that I‟ve ever used it without paying a rental fee is on the Fourth of July. At that event, I invite all of the board of Aldermen and others. Families that are being recognized that night on the field, things like that, into that box. I think park-rec wanted to be able to hang onto that so if something came up not to be in a circumstance where they weren‟t able to use it. They call parks-rec and say is there any dibs on the box for whatever night. The answer has always been no with the exception of the Fourth of July or the night that I rented it. Alderman Donchess What happens, it just goes empty? Finance – 05/21/14 Page 26 Mayor Lozeau No, no, no. They rent it. If they don‟t rent it, they actually go out in the stands sometimes and invite people up or season ticket holders. They‟ve had them up because then they will order off of the menu upstairs. They also know that if they don‟t rent the box out, but let‟s say that Mike O‟Malley is coming with his family. They invite him into the center suite. Alderman Chasse Point or order. What does the box have to do with concessions? Mayor Lozeau It‟s in the agreement. There‟s a provision in here that talks about the suites being used. They have special menus. We don‟t control it. We just want to make sure that the city does not have a time when if they wanted it to be available at no cost, they should be able to have it. Alderman Donchess I am referring to a specific provision in the agreement. Basically the team uses it and the city does at its discretion. Is that the way it works? Mayor Lozeau Exactly if something comes up. Alderman Donchess Maybe we should then do something. It would be nice to have a little lottery where people could go or the city could somehow use it in some way. Mayor Lozeau I‟m happy to do something creative. I think the Fourth of July is a great time for the city to use it. We recognize people out on the field. It‟s a city event. We rent out all the other boxes, first come, first serve and we hang onto that middle one. It‟s been I think well done. Alderman Deane Do you give the box to somebody? Mayor Lozeau No, I‟ve never given the box to anybody. Alderman Deane Other than the Fourth of July, if there‟s somebody in there, they are paying to utilize that space? The park- recreation department isn‟t dolling out the box. Finance – 05/21/14 Page 27 Mayor Lozeau It‟s the team. It‟s whatever the team wants to do. It‟s either rented or because it couldn‟t be rented that night, they frequently go out in the stands and say go up into the community box. It‟s available. There are no special favors, nobody doing anything for anybody if that‟s what you‟re asking. Alderman Deane That‟s exactly what I‟m asking. Mayor Lozeau That doesn‟t happen. I think that would be an abuse. Alderman Deane Absolutely. I couldn‟t agree with you more. I‟m not a big fan of stuff like that. Mayor Lozeau When I rented it for the city employee, I didn‟t use city funds to pay the rental. Alderman Deane What did you rent it for? Mayor Lozeau When Kathy Hersh retired, she was a season ticket holder to the baseball games. We thought it would be fun to honor her. A group of us split the cost out of our own checkbook to rent the suite for the night. Alderman Deane How much was the rent? Mayor Lozeau $255. MOTION BY ALDERMAN DONCHESS TO AMEND THE CONCESSION AGREEMENT TO INCLUDE A SPECIFIC REFERENCE TO THE TEN O’CLOCK FIREWORKS DEADLINE IN PARAGRAPH 9 ON THE QUESTION Mayor Lozeau If the motion passes, how about we let legal put it wherever it needs to go? Alderman Donchess Fine, wherever they think it is appropriate. MOTION CARRIED Finance – 05/21/14 Page 28 Alderman Deane You voted against that? Mayor Lozeau I did. I think we‟re handling it just fine. I might think differently if it wasn‟t the Silver Knights. MOTION BY ALDERMAN DEANE FOR FINAL PASSAGE AS AMENDED MOTION CARRIED NEW BUSINESS – ORDINANCES – None HELD IN COMMITTEE MOTION BY ALDERMAN DONCHESS TO TAKE FROM THE TABLE O-14-11 MOTION CARRIED O-14-011 Endorsers: Alderman-at-Large Jim Donchess Alderman-at-Large David W. Deane Alderman Ken Siegel Alderman David Schoneman Alderman Michael Soucy REGARDING FINANCE COMMITTEE APPROVAL OF CONTRACT AMENDMENTS Held in Cmte – 3/19/14 Alderman Donchess I‟d like to offer an amendment, one that I mentioned a month ago and then said that I would have a written version tonight. I do have a written version and have copies for the committee. Basically what it does is it says in situation where a contract has been approved by the Finance Committee, meaning it‟s more than $10,000, it does not change the Mayor‟s authority to make changes to the contract from the current authority but simply says that the Mayor will inform the finance committee within 10 business days of any amendment to the contract terms, scope of work or sums payable to the contractor or a termination of the contract. We‟ve discussed this before. You suggested that various problems could result from the requirement that the Mayor come back to the committee for an approval of a change. I partially agree with you and partially not, but conceding that point my major objective in proposing this was to make sure that we at least know what‟s going on and that if there are changes to contract that we‟ve approved the finance committee and therefore the public be made aware of those. MOTION BY ALDERMAN DONCHESS TO AMEND O-14-011 TO CONFORM WITH THE COPY THAT HAS BEEN PASSED OUT TO THE MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE ON THE QUESTION Mayor Lozeau It says on the top “proposed amendments to O-14-011.” Alderman Donchess you had asked me to think about that. I didn‟t know what your specific language would be. I don‟t know if everybody realizes just the amount of things that go through various processes within City Hall. Each time I come across one that I think we can make better, I think we‟ve done that. One of the things that we‟ve done is now there‟s a link on the city website, on the city clerk‟s site, that has all of the approved contracts, no matter the size. I think that‟s a huge improvement to what we had before. Any changes also get posted there. We put a Finance – 05/21/14 Page 29 gatekeeper process in place because everybody was doing it differently. Some sent the clerk a copy, some didn‟t. We had 42 copies in the file because the director kept a copy, this one kept one. We really got our arms around it. The bottom-line from my perspective is what generated this, and you can correct me if I‟m wrong, is clearly the misunderstanding around the Branding Initiative and whether the Board was informed or not informed on something that they clearly had an interest in. I was under the impression that the board knew the information, whether the language used was the same or not, when looking up the minutes after our heated discussions about it, it was talked about that we‟re moving from this contract to this contract for the next phase. I think it‟s fair to say that words like “the contract has been terminated” were not used. I would have had no problem coming in and saying that. As you can see in tonight‟s packet, we had a contract termination back in April with the company as it related to the lead paint. I have no problem with you being informed. What I worry about is what system I am going to put in place to try to make this happen. When it‟s under that threshold already and more than you would imagine happened and to do it within ten days. What happens if I miss one? Am I then being sneaky? What happens if I send them all in and then we go through a list every ten days or 20 days and then it‟s going to be judgment calls that are back and forth on why did I do that for this or not for that. Those are the things that I worry about. I think putting in an ordinance things at this level to say the Mayor shall do this I think are almost punitive in some nature. I don‟t think you‟re intending it that way. In my first few years here, we came across things all the time where the Mayor was supposed to tell us this or give us that or where that‟s document. I think we made a list at that time of trying to find where are all those things that I‟m supposed to do. That‟s a lot of expect. That‟s what I am concerned about. I am concerned about trying to get this done. In other instances I‟ve had different aldermen who have said to me the thing I am really interested in is “x”. If anything happens with that or anything changes, can you let me know? Usually there‟s a few that we will keep track of. Depending on whose department it falls under, I‟ll say remind me to update alderman so and so on this, like Alderman Pressly. Anytime something came up with rail back in the day I tried to make sure she got the information on it because that was something she was interested in. I‟m just worried how I am going to comply with this yet still make sure that we‟re working other and we all see the same information. The fast and easiest way that I‟ve come up with so far is to make sure that it‟s always posted. They are sorted by date with the most recent on the bottom. That‟s just the best way I can think of to do it. Alderman Siegel It seems to me that if you‟re posting something and we‟re informed that something is being posted then we don‟t have to go proactively looking on a daily basis and sorting things out. I think to the extent that you already have a mechanism where you are posting information about changes that it doesn‟t seem too much of a stretch to comply with requests that Alderman Donchess has put forward. I would say to make the effort to send an e-mail to us that this new information has been posted about contracts, it‟s worth looking at, certainly is much less painful than what we‟ve had to go through in the past, at least in my tenure here with the Branding Initiative. If you‟re looking for what is or isn‟t punitive, I don‟t think there‟s an intent that it‟s punitive. If anything, I think Alderman Donchess‟ suggestion is trying to avoid any punitive actions. I think to the extent that we‟re informed; we‟re going to get a lot less upset. I think this works to everybody‟s benefit especially if you already have a mechanism where you are putting something on there. I guess I don‟t get the objection. Mayor Lozeau It would be the City Clerk‟s responsibility under what I have in place right now. You‟re putting in this small finite window. By the time it‟s signed and it goes to the process or whatever may happen, I don‟t know that it can make the ten days. Even that can be a problem. I‟m happy to tell you stuff. I‟m not interested in hiding stuff. We‟re all doing this work together. It‟s just that I think it‟s difficult to put some hard and fast rules around how it will happen. Finance – 05/21/14 Page 30 Alderman Donchess I would make two brief points. Number one, this is already a compromise. Number two these contract amendments are written contracts. These contract amendments are made in writing. The rule is just when you amend a contract; tell the Finance Committee you‟re doing it. It‟s not that difficult. I think it avoids misunderstandings and problems and therefore I, although was at least partially persuaded by the argument that we shouldn‟t have to approve changes, I‟m not persuaded at all that we shouldn‟t be informed of them. Mayor Lozeau I wouldn‟t disagree that you should be informed; it‟s just a matter of who informs you and how that happens. MOTION CARRIED TO AMEND MOTION BY ALDERMAN DONCHESS TO RECOMMEND FINAL PASSAGE AS AMENDED MOTION CARRIED DISCUSSION Mayor Lozeau I wanted to update you on where we are on the Fortistar contract and let you know that yesterday at the Board of Public Works we met and had a presentation with a company called PPO which is interested and has responded to our request for qualifications and is willing to take care of the agreement we have with Fortistar on purchasing the remaining time in their contract which is good news for us. As you recall we are trying to be on track to meet a July 1 deadline. I just wanted to let you know that we are fortunately heading in the right direction. I would anticipate sometime in June a contract coming back before the Finance Committee. It‟s got to go to Finance, Board of Public Works and Board of Aldermen because it will likely be a long-term contract. I just wanted to keep you up-to-date on where that stood. RECORD OF EXPENDITURES MOTION BY ALDERMAN SIEGEL THAT THE FINANCE COMMITTEE HAS COMPLIED WITH THE CITY CHARTER AND ORDINANCES PERTAINING TO THE RECORD OF EXPENDITURES FOR THE PERIOD MAY 2, 2014 TO MAY 16, 2014 MOTION CARRIED PUBLIC COMMENT Mr. Mooney I would just like to thank Alderman Donchess for his motion for the amendment and to the committee for passing it. I just want to say that the Mayor has been nothing but open-minded and helpful in my discussions with her regarding this issue. I know why she had to vote the way she did, but if the amendment survives into the contract, I think it will actually help the Silver Knights. They can just say we have the permits and everything is fine, but I think having it in the contract will make it clear what the permits should allow according to our city ordinances. Thank you all again. Mayor Lozeau I am going to take the Chairman‟s prerogative which I should have done under discussion and thank Mr. Gabriel again. Tonight is his last Finance Committee meeting. I just want to thank him for his passion and dedication to the city, his eye for detail, his willingness to watch even the small dollars, and his ability to Finance – 05/21/14 Page 31 bring something forward even when he thought the tide was going in the other direction for us to consider. I think the process in purchasing has benefited from your time and attention to detail. I personally thank you. I‟m pretty convinced that the Finance Committee would thank you as well. Alderman Deane Who are you going to replace him with? Mayor Lozeau I don‟t know. I‟m just posting his job. Are you trying to say that he‟s irreplaceable because this is a good opportunity to mention that? Alderman Siegel What would it take for you to stay? Mayor Lozeau Okay, now we‟re overstepping. We‟re not going there. Alderman Deane This isn‟t the Budget Committee, buddy. The Budget Committee can do that. Alderman Siegel It all blends in this week. I apologize. Alderman Moriarty That‟s a legitimate question. Who is taking his position? Mayor Lozeau I don‟t know the answer to that. Alderman Moriarty We get these things from somebody. We‟re going to start getting Finance Committee. Mayor Lozeau I thought you meant who is going to take his position as the Purchasing Manager. We have not even begun the interview process. Alderman Deane That‟s to the question. Mayor Lozeau The question is who is going to be doing the memos in the meantime? Finance – 05/21/14 Page 32 Alderman Deane Right. Mayor Lozeau That would be Mr. Griffin. Alderman Moriarty Who is going to be fulfilling the function of Purchasing Manager in his absence? Mayor Lozeau It will be a shared responsibility. Alderman Deane By whom? Mayor Lozeau Primarily Mr. Griffin, Rose Evans. Alderman Deane Will stipends be given? Mayor Lozeau I don‟t believe so, Alderman Deane. I think it depends on what the amount of work is how it‟s going to be handled. If they are given, the Board will be notified as required in the ordinance. Alderman Moriarty How long have we known that he‟s going to be retiring? Is he retiring? Mayor Lozeau Yes. Alderman Moriarty How long have we known this? Mayor Lozeau Probably about a month, two months. Further discussion? This was really meant to be a moment of thanks to Mr. Gabriel. Alderman Deane Alright, Mayor. Finance – 05/21/14 Page 33 Mayor Lozeau I understand that. Alderman Deane You should be concerned too. Come on. He‟s like Paul Bergeron, the City Clerk. Mayor Lozeau I understand. I think I have acknowledged that. And yes I am concerned. It‟s a lot of work for other people to have to take responsibility for. I „m hopeful we get a plan soon, but I‟m also very confident with the staff that we‟ve worked with that we will pull together and manage to get through this. Alderman Deane Do you have an interview team? Mayor Lozeau Not off the top of my head, but I always have an interview team. The process I take. Alderman Deane Are you looking for volunteers? Mayor Lozeau I‟ll let you know. Alderman Siegel That sounds like a no. Mayor Lozeau I think there are some interview teams where I‟ve invited Aldermen and some where I haven‟t. It depends on the position. So again, Mr. Gabriel, just to end on a high note, thank you very much. I appreciate all you‟ve done. Alderman Chasse Mr. Gabriel, do you feel loved? Enjoy your retirement. ADJOURNMENT MOTION BY ALDERMAN CHASSE TO ADJOURN MOTION CARRIED The Finance Committee meeting was adjourned at 9:10 p.m. Alderman Ken Siegel Committee Clerk