Finance Committee

REPORT OF THE FINANCE COMMITTEE JULY 2, 2014 A meeting of the Finance Committee was held on Wednesday, July 2, 2014, at 7:00 p.m. in the Aldermanic Chamber. Mayor Donnalee Lozeau, Chair, presided. Members of the Committee present: Alderman-at-Large Daniel T. Moriarty, Vice Chair Alderman-at-Large David W. Deane Alderman Ken Siegel Alderwoman Pamela T. Brown Alderman Paul M. Chasse, Jr. Members not in Attendance: Alderman-at-Large Jim Donchess Also in Attendance: PUBLIC COMMENT Paula Johnson Good evening. My name is Paula Johnson, 15 Westborn Drive. I'm here tonight because I'm a little bit concerned about what I was reading in the paper regarding a boardwalk at Mine Falls. The reason I'm concerned with this is that it's another study and from what I understand, the money is coming out of the Conservation fund. Am I correct? Mayor Lozeau No actually it's coming out of the Mine Falls Fund. Paula Johnson The Mine Falls fund, okay. So if in fact the City decides to do the boardwalk, where would the money come from to do the boardwalk? Mayor Lozeau The money is slated to come out of the Mine Falls fund. That fund is funded through the cell tower fees that are paid and so work done in Mine Falls comes from that fund. Paula Johnson One of the reasons I'm a little bit concerned with this is you know we talk about the tree roots in Mine Falls. I don't know if anybody ever takes a walk through Mine Falls on the board here. There's tree roots everywhere. So I would guess if you're going to start cutting up tree roots and trying to fix for a boardwalk, the question would be on some of the main paths, you can trip and fall over the roots. So I'm a little bit concerned because people are saying they can't ride their bikes up that hill. Maybe they shouldn't be going up that hill if it's bad and we've got the roots that are sticking out. I'm a little bit concerned a boardwalk in the woods. Maybe we should take a look at the park as a whole then and see maybe there are trails in there that aren't safe anymore that need to be corrected with the roots rather than putting a boardwalk in the Finance – 07/03/14 Page 2 woods. I get it where the money is coming from but that doesn't mean it needs to be spent to put a boardwalk in the woods. Mayor Lozeau I was just answering a question. Paula Johnson Yeah but I'm just saying that. It's in the woods. Again, how many people actually from the Board takes a walk from Mine Falls? I start at Stellos Stadium. So even on the paths you see on all the paths the tree roots are coming up and you have to stay to the side because otherwise you'll get hit by the bikes sometimes. But you know, it's the woods. I wanted to kind of mention about the library. I think it's about time we do kind of straighten up that area in front of the library. I agree with a comment on The Telegraph that you need to widen the walkway over there. It is kind of narrow the walkway coming from the parking lot to the library. So that might be put on the punch list when you do work at the library the front of it if you do anything cuz over the years it's seen better days at the library. Thank you. Mayor Lozeau I don't see further public comment tonight. COMMUNICATIONS From: Mayor Donnalee Lozeau Re: Emergency Sewer Repairs MOTION BY ALDERMAN SIEGEL TO ACCEPT AND PLACE ON FILE MOTION CARRIED MOTION BY ALDERMAN SIEGEL THAT THE RULES BE SO FAR SUSPENDED AS TO ALLOW FOR THE INTRODUCTION OF A COMMUNICATION RECEIVED AFTER THE AGENDA WAS PREPARED MOTION CARRIED From: John L. Griffin, Chief Financial Officer Re: Emergency Contract Award for Sewer Repair Services (Value: $165,700) Department: 169 Wastewater; Fund: Wastewater; Activity Description: Sewer Rehab MOTION BY ALDERMAN SIEGEL TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND AWARD THE CONTRACT TO RWC EXCAVATION IN THE AMOUNT OF $165,700. FUNDS ARE AVAILABLE IN DEPARTMENT 169, WASTEWATER; WASTEWATER FUND; SEWER REHAB ON THE QUESTION Alderman Deane There's a significant difference in the low bidder of $165,000 and the next low bidder at $388,000. What is... Mayor Lozeau I asked that same question Alderman. Finance – 07/03/14 Page 3 Alderman Deane It's not that I'm complaining about it. Mayor Lozeau No, no, no, I know but it's... Alderman Deane It makes me wonder like is this going to be changeover haven when this begins? Are these people well aware? Mayor Lozeau Well I'm not going to commit to it not being change order central because I think we all know that when you get into the sewer work as the one we just approved, sometimes you get in there and you find things that you didn't know you were going to find or you fixed something, you're fixing 10 feet and then it crumbles and you're fixing another 10, and you're chasing it as we've done on Lake Street, and Ash Street, and all kinds of places. Alderman Deane Whenever they try to mate to the existing and it just keeps... Mayor Lozeau Exactly and so we are as you've all noticed, we're having a problem with sink holes particularly in the inner city where the sewer pipes are between 80 and 100 years old depending on the pipes. So we're very worried about some of that. So these sink holes I don't know exactly what they're going to find but I asked the question you did Alderman Deane because I'm like that is a pretty significant difference. What I was told is this is a smaller company. They've worked with us on a few things. They did West Hollis Street and someplace else. Alderman Deane They're smaller than Jack Crisp's company? Mayor Lozeau No I don't know that they're smaller than Jack Crisp but I was told that they are a smaller company - not maybe compared to all of them, but that was just the response that the City Engineer gave me. He has some confidence in what they've done. Alderman Deane Was the line cameraed? Mayor Lozeau I don't know if the line has been cameraed but I would... Finance – 07/03/14 Page 4 Alderman Deane How many linear feet? Mayor Lozeau In this particular one? It depends on the location. So if you go - (inaudible) used to come talk about the estimated quantity and then the cost of those quantities, and removal, and distance but I think they have actually been videoed when we had the sink hole because one of the things we were looking at was whether or not we were going to do the work. Alderman Deane So their lineal footage is included as part of this? Mayor Lozeau Yes. Alderman Deane There's 110 feet from buying in Belmont a 6 inch - so obviously somebody must have... Mayor Lozeau As I said, I'm pretty sure that every time we get a sink hole we camera the lines. Alderman Deane Well there's a lump sum total of everything though. Mayor Lozeau There is. Alderman Deane So this is what they're being paid to do and if there's anything above and beyond it - so if the sewer line continues to collapse as they try to connect from point a to point b and they have to keep until they find something that has integrity to it... Mayor Lozeau Something that they can hang onto, right. Alderman Deane Thank you. Mayor Lozeau You're welcome. Finance – 07/03/14 Page 5 Alderman Siegel Thank you Madam Chair. I know its standard operating procedure to camera a line. You do the work so I'm assuming that's gotten done. I don't know what the length of the City's video system is but that might determine how far up and down they want it. Sometimes they scope it just as far as they put the camera down. Mayor Lozeau Our camera actually drives through the pipe. Alderman Siegel Good to know. Thank you. Mayor Lozeau Further discussion? Alderman Chasse Yeah about 2,000 linear feet. Mayor Lozeau You added up all these different ones? Alderman Chasse Of course I did. Mayor Lozeau Okay. 2,000 - I know they're all separate and there's no total. Alderman Deane We should have them bid on other work at $80 a foot. Mayor Lozeau Well sadly I'm afraid there is going to be other work. We really have to look at a plan for... Alderman Deane Well what we've been looking at I think basically in the last year or so is between $225 a linear foot. Mayor Lozeau No I'm saying look at a plan for some of those aging... Alderman Deane These guys are at $80. Finance – 07/03/14 Page 6 Mayor Lozeau But some of the aging infrastructure as it relates to sewer pipes - the weather we're going to have in the next two days are not going to help us with our sink hole problem. Alderman Deane Is there a sink hole on Lake and the intersection in front of Simoneau Plaza? Mayor Lozeau There was but we repaired that. So that works been done twice. Alderman Deane There's another sink hole on Daniel Webster Highway too that they just keep filling with asphalt. Mayor Lozeau Well there's a few that we're working on. I don't know about that one in particular but the oldest infrastructure as you know Alderman Deane is in the center of the city. Further discussion? MOTION CARRIED From: John L. Griffin, Chief Financial Officer Re: Contract Award for Library Plaza Renovations (Value: $16,010) MOTION BY ALDEMAN SIEGEL TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND AWARD THE CONTRACT TO SAINT’S LANDSCAPING IN THE AMOUNT OF $16,010. FUNDS ARE AVAILABLE IN DEPARTMENT 179, NASHUA PUBLIC LIBRARY; PRIOR YEAR ESCROWS; 54-PROPERTY SERVICES ($13,000) AND LOST/DAMAGED BOOK FINES SPECIAL FUND ($3,010) ON THE QUESTION Alderman Deane I received a communication about some concerns that an individual had about this company and they've withdrawn their concerns and I also sent it along to the Legal Department who sent me an explanation. I believe you were copied on the e-mail with the standing. So we're all set in that area. I do agree with Mrs. Johnson as well as many others about the width of that walkway in the back. Something does need to be done there. When I can, and I've attended a few, I'm on the Library Board of Trustees. They're looking at a lot of different things. They have limited funding and this is one area that they wanted to address and they're looking forward to getting it done. Thank you. Mayor Lozeau I just wanted to remind the Committee. We held it off the agenda after I talked to the Library Director to look at whether or not we could incorporate replacing the sidewalk in front of Court Street and the bid came back at just under $10,000 for that piece of sidewalk. That was cost prohibitive so we moved forward. In the process of doing that, you'll notice that this is a lower price. When it came in it was at $19,700. So just so you know, we took out the fence and the lights because it was determined that we could purchase those for less money than the company could. Finance – 07/03/14 Page 7 Alderman Deane Yup. Mayor Lozeau So that was $2,500 and that went back into the price. So overall we saved $1,200. Not bad. Alderman Deane We had a cost avoidance. Mayor Lozeau Right, well but I guess what I'm saying is if we looked into it a little further, we may not have discovered that. I mean it's a small dollar amount but I just wanted to first let you know the difference and to tell you what the cost was. Alderman Deane What would be nice to do with that walkway is to widen it has been suggested and then put some like impervious pavers in there that will take some water. I don't think it would be that expensive to do but I do agree. When I've gone over there, people will walk out with their children, they park in the back, you get down there and then people are walking up onto what used to be the grass. Then those areas get rutted. So maybe we can look at addressing that. I don't think that would be a real expensive thing to do. Mayor Lozeau Okay. Thank you. Further discussion? MOTION CARRIED From: John L. Griffin, Chief Financial Officer Re: Contract Award for Millyard Fire Pump Replacement: (Value $623,000) MOTION BY ALDERMAN SIEGELTO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND AWARD THE CONTRACT TO ALBANESE D&S IN THE AMOUNT OF $623,000. SOURCE OF FUNDING IS DEPARTMENT: 160, ADMINISTRATION/ENGINEERING; CAPITAL PROJECTS; BROAD STREET PARKWAY ON THE QUESTION Alderman Deane Why are we responsible for the fire pump? Mayor Lozeau Because we have to move it as part of the Broad Street Parkway. It's part of the project. Alderman Deane And it's now going to be fed with domestic water outside of river water? Finance – 07/03/14 Page 8 Mayor Lozeau That's right. It will be a lot safer. Alderman Deane I believe it's a dry system anyways is it not? Mayor Lozeau No actually. This is what they discovered in the process of looking at this is actually if something happens and there's a fire, somebody has to go to the fire pump station, which is that small building that's what's left where the boiler house was, and they have to turn it on. That's a bit of a problem. Alderman Deane Make sure that person isn't on vacation. So now this is going to be all set with its own trip? Mayor Lozeau Exactly. Alderman Deane Why was the Engineer's estimate and the actual low bid $200,000 plus apart? Mayor Lozeau Well they were concerned about - Mr. Vancour talked a little bit about it at the parkway meeting. I think originally when it was first looked at as part of the project, it was anticipated that it wasn't going to have to move very far and that we weren't necessarily going to have to take as much responsibility as we had to take. Then I think that they didn't anticipate the water main being part of the project when they were originally looking at it. It wasn't until they really got in there to see what made the system work. It feeds off of that canal head and stuff. Its part of that system which I didn't think anybody realized. Alderman Deane Once we're done moving it, our obligations are over? Mayor Lozeau That's correct. Alderman Deane And that's up to the... Mayor Lozeau Millyard Association of which we're a member. Hopefully not for long. Alderman Deane Thank you. Finance – 07/03/14 Page 9 Mayor Lozeau You're welcome. Further discussion? MOTION CARRIED From: John L. Griffin, Chief Financial Officer Re: Nashua River Bridge and Fairmont Street Bridge Construction Change Order #1 (Value: $127,756) MOTION BY ALDERMAN SIEGEL TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND AUTHORIZE CHANGE ORDER #1 TO THE CONTRACT WITH E.D. SWETT IN THE AMOUNT OF $127,756. FUNDS ARE AVAILABLE IN DEPARTMENT 160, ADMINISTRATION/ENGINEERING; CAPITAL PROJECTS; BROAD STREET PARKWAY ON THE QUESTION Alderman Deane Is this strictly aesthetics? Mayor Lozeau This is to match the bridge rail and fence - the same as we did for Baldwin Street and then it's to do the form liners under the river bridge. So yes its neighborhood aesthetics for above the parkway and then part of the river bridge to match the retaining wall. You can see the picture of it in here. Alderman Deane We're slowly chewing away at the monies that were realized the bid price of a project. Mayor Lozeau Well we're still in pretty fair shape. We're about $6 million ahead plus we took $1 million off the project when we were able to drop the river bridge down to ground level. Yeah I mean frankly I think more of the things I worry about are the costs associated with the right of way work. That's greater than we expected. To put $100,000 into have rails that are neighborhood friendly I think makes sense. To do a little something to the bridge that has it not look like a highway bridge over the river I think is worth $20,000. We'll be back in to meet with the Board of Public Works and the Board of Aldermen to talk about other aesthetics as they relate to the river bridge to bring in a couple of options for people to give input on. Alderman Siegel Thank you Madam Chair. Normally I'm against spending money for these types of things but I think in this particular case the neighborhoods really suffer from having a bridge there. I think it makes sense to try to make it as aesthetically pleasing as possible because otherwise the value of their property is going to be jeopardized. It will almost be a false economy if that whole neighborhood goes down in value because we didn't spend some money to make the bridge look good enough that other people want to live there. So I'm in favor of it. MOTION CARRIED Finance – 07/03/14 Page 10 From: John L. Griffin, Chief Financial Officer Re: Purchase of 2 Freightliner 10 Wheel Dump Trucks for Street Department (Value: $222,204) MOTION BY ALDERMAN SIEGEL TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND AUTHORIZE THE PURCHASE FROM FREIGHTLINER OF NEW HAMPSHIRE THROUGH NEW HAMPSHIRE STATE CONTRACT #8001494 IN THE AMOUNT OF $222,204. SOURCE OF FUNDING IS THE CAPITAL EQUIPMENT RESERVE FUND; 81, CAPITAL OUTLAY ON THE QUESTION Alderman Deane Is Mr. Ryder here? Mayor Lozeau Yes he is. Alderman Deane Could you invite him to join us. Mayor Lozeau Mr. Ryder, Superintendent. Could you maybe just for the Committee's benefit let them know why it is that you wanted to purchase the 10 wheel trucks and why those are important to you as the 6 wheel trucks. I know that you came and did it at the Budget Committee meeting but there are members here that are not on the Budget Committee. Alderman Siegel Just as a point of order, you might want to just tilt your microphone forward just a bit. Thank you very much. Eric Ryder Currently a 6 wheel dump truck doesn't hold as much material as a 10 wheel dump truck. Roughly 7 or 8 yards for a 6 wheel dump truck and a 10 wheel dump truck would hold approximately 13 to 15 yards of material. During the winter operations, it's an efficiency that we can go to the outer limits of the city, keep the trucks out on the road longer, and fight the storm a little bit longer instead of carrying back and forth to the salt shed. In the summer time, spring, fall, we will use those for spring cleanup, the mill and fill project, hauling asphalt, or debris in various construction projects. Alderman Deane There's four 10 wheelers? Eric Ryder Correct. Alderman Deane And when are the other two due for replacement? Finance – 07/03/14 Page 11 Eric Ryder Currently I don't have the... Alderman Deane When we bought these - I was on the Board of Public Works when we bought these first few trucks. The idea was that we wanted to deal with the Amherst Street and Daniel Webster Highway. That was the whole tandem 10 wheelers length of the road. So what's currently done now - 2 up on Amherst Street and 2 down on DW Highway? Eric Ryder That's correct. Alderman Deane Since this has been since I think sometime in February or March whenever we tabled this, do we still have the State contract availability to purchase these through? Eric Ryder Yes. I've been dealing with the vendor and they will hold their current pricing for the State contract. Mayor Lozeau Alderman Deane to answer your question about replacement of the other two, one is scheduled for 2016 and one is scheduled for 2017. Alderman Deane Did that CERF schedule ever get... Mayor Lozeau resorted? I believe it did. I thought I gave you a copy of it. Alderman Deane The one copy I got it wasn't sorted. Mayor Lozeau No but then you asked for it to be sorted and I thought we had done that. Alderman Deane I think Treasurer Fredette was doing that. I didn't... Mayor Lozeau I thought he finished. I'll check but just so you know those two are... Finance – 07/03/14 Page 12 Alderman Deane Can I continue just for a second? Mayor Lozeau You can and I will recognize Alderman Siegel when I think you're done. Alderman Deane Sanders? Eric Ryder The up fit package on these along with the Director and myself Fleet Manager, originally we were going to go off the Town of Bedford's bid but we decided to look at it a little bit closer and put it out to bid ourselves from the City. Rough saving about $17,000 to $18,000 by doing that. Alderman Deane That was part of the original purchase package? Eric Ryder The original purchase package we were going to fall under the Town of Bedford bid and we looked at it after - looking at it a little closer, I sat down and tried to think long term what we could do. That's when we decided to bid out the stainless steel drop in sander. That would give us a 20 to 30 year life term on that. So what I can do with that moving forward when I need to replace these vehicles, I can save on the sander - the up fit package. These can be interchangeable as we move forward down as we said a boiler plate for purchasing vehicles along the road. So if I had a vehicle down or sander down, I could get another sander and drop it in that truck. Alderman Deane Just drop it on the A frame back the truck in? Eric Ryder The sanders come in with legs. These are a new style come in. They have drop down legs. You back out, drop the legs down, pull forward, another set of legs drop out. There's a convenience in these as well. Alderman Deane So the original request is now $17,000 to $18,000 less per truck because of your diligence on the sanders? Eric Ryder No it's $17,000 less on the whole on all 6 vehicles on the four 6 wheels as well as on the 10 wheelers. Mayor Lozeau So we never got the up fit into the Finance Committee. So we had the purchase of the 6 wheel dumps and the purchase of the two 10 wheels and while those purchases were going through Finance, they were Finance – 07/03/14 Page 13 looking at the up fitting and they were doing the analysis on whether to do it in house or to go with the Bedford bid. That's when as the Superintendent said, they decided that they'd actually go out to bid. Alderman Deane I always thought it was called a "fit up" and not an "up fit". Eric Ryder It depends on... Alderman Deane Has industry changed? Maybe I'm behind the times. Eric Ryder It depends what company you talk to. Some say it's an up fit, it's a fit up. It's really the same thing - installation of plow frames... Alderman Deane So you're fitting up the vehicle to your needs? Eric Ryder Yes. Alderman Deane So they come with air conditioning? Eric Ryder Yes these do Sir. That's become a standard in these trucks. Alderman Deane What's the condition of the other two? Eric Ryder They're fair condition. We continue to maintain them according to the guidelines but as we went through that schedule, they'll be ready for replacement. What that does is gives us as much value as possible on the trade in. Mayor Lozeau We have 2 off (inaudible) right now. Alderman Deane But if the frames are rotted, you don't really have much value. Finance – 07/03/14 Page 14 Eric Ryder No we don't and that's why it goes back. We condition with hosing them off after the storms, cleaning them out. Alderman Deane If we had a way to properly clean the trucks, they'd probably last longer? Eric Ryder Absolutely. No question. A cleaning of the undercarriage is significant in keeping the longevity of these vehicles. That is the weakest point of the truck. You can clean the top, the sides, really the undercarriage that's where the sand and everything splashes back up on the road. Alderman Deane So the calibration of the sanders - a number of years ago there was all this talk about calibration. You still find areas where they tip the beds - and you still see the impeller out there spinning and you still see the salt falling, and you still...I don't see - it's coming out of a grate. The vehicle is moving. What sort of calibration practices do these new sanders have? Eric Ryder These sanders here they are geared based up on the vehicle transmission speed and what you're seeing with the beds up are those the old tailgate spreaders inefficient. What those were they were very inexpensive when purchased. It's just basically an auger on the back end of the truck that is a corkscrew as the bed is raised, materials let out. There's no way of controlling in that. With these, there's a touch screen and a keypad that you can adjust your auger ratio within the sander as well as the spinner ratio. So you can control how much material you're putting on and how much it will spread. The more speed on the spinner would spread out into a larger area which you can do in the off peak hours where you can run the center lane and spread both sides of the road. If you're during the day where there's traffic on both sides of the street, you will control your spinners speed turned down a little less so you don't waste it into the gutter. Alderman Deane So your 6 relays are going to be fit up with the same sanders? Eric Ryder That's correct. Alderman Deane So that the vehicles from this point forward are going to come with quick disconnects or whatever you need for hydraulics, or electric, or whatever the case maybe. So the sanders will be interchangeable so if we have a truck go down, we can - do we have the capacity to pull a fully loaded - say a truck breaks down and you take a loader and push underneath the A-frame to get the or however you're taking the sander off. I would imagine it's on an A-frame with a... Eric Ryder Actually these sanders slide right into the bed of the truck. Finance – 07/03/14 Page 15 Alderman Deane Say the truck breaks down and you want to take it off. Eric Ryder What we could do depending upon the location, we try to get to a safe location on the side of the road, we could pull the truck forward, drop the sander off, bring another truck in that has a similar sander on it, back it in, and get that fully loaded sander into the yard. Moving forward what we plan on doing is setting up all the hydraulic controls, male to female have them all the same so they are interchangeable so if we have to change one, they're all a standard template moving forward. Alderman Deane That makes a lot of sense. So everything is interchangeable? Eric Ryder Absolutely. The long-term goal if finance is available, we could have a spare sander if one went down. I could change that sander out mid storm have that truck back out on the road. Alderman Deane There's nothing wrong with having one on the shelf but you could always interchange them to perform maintenance on them and wash them so we'd get... Eric Ryder If we had a truck down, I could pull that sander off. If the other sander was down, I could do the vice versa while they were working on that particular truck and get that truck back out on the road. Alderman Deane But if you've got the impeller at the back, don't they normally just pick them up? Isn't there something welded to the top of the sander that you could just back it in, take a chain fall, and... Eric Ryder Yeah they have lifting points on these that you could do that but this style actually has legs that you could - drop down legs that are on it. It's like 4 stantions that come down that the sander would stand on by itself. Alderman Deane Can you adjust them up and down to back another truck underneath it? Eric Ryder Back the truck, drop the rear ones down, you pull forward, you drop the other two down, and then the truck can drive forward and out. Alderman Deane Thank you. Finance – 07/03/14 Page 16 Alderman Siegel Technology marches forward. Thank you for coming Mr. Ryder. I appreciate it. It sounds like to me with the winter operations putting the snow plow on was something that we did but in a sense it was almost incidental because the principle use it sounds like from your description was as a salt spreader and that's why the increased capacity was required for the 10 wheelers. Is that correct? Eric Ryder Well they're twofold. They're not also - we don't only sand or salt depending upon the storm. We would do a pretreatment and the wing plow and the nose plow is on there. Once the storm start to gear up and puts more than 3 inches on the road, that keeps up out on that road in the same area that we're doing the salting and sanding. Alderman Siegel I appreciate that. It also sounds like by trying to put it out to bid is an integrated package we saved some money from what you were describing. Eric Ryder We did. Alderman Siegel I guess that's helpful to bid them as a package and not just have to look at a chassis alone. So I appreciate that. Eric Ryder Thank you. Mayor Lozeau We didn't fit them out as - we are buying the vehicles separate and the fit up is separate. Alderman Siegel I understand that. Mayor Lozeau Oh, okay. Alderman Moriarty What can you do with a 10 wheeler that you cannot do with the 6 wheeler? Eric Ryder It's a matter of capacity, efficiencies. It holds more material so what you would need to do with one 10 wheeler if you were hauling material, you would need two 6 wheelers, 2 personnel to do that. So you can cut your staff down by one and using a 10 wheeler to go out and haul gravel, crushed stone, whatever you're hauling during the winter operations when we're doing snow removal. That one truck would haul Finance – 07/03/14 Page 17 more than if a 6 wheeler was out, I'd have to have two 6 wheelers to haul snow in a particular location where a 10 wheeler I could material in there and haul it out. Alderman Moriarty So if it's in the case of let's say which we don't do - laying down asphalt for a road the limit on the rate at which you use the asphalt is some other machine or something. The fact that you can carry more salt doesn't mean you're doing twice the work because you're throwing it out at a fixed rate. It just means that a smaller truck would have to come back and refill or if you're loading snow or loading something to carry it away if you have something to put it in, there could be a limit based on the fact that the trucks didn't show up and wait until it emptied and go, you're not necessarily doing twice the work because you're loading and then you're unloading. It just means that you could do it - you could possibly save time going back. Eric Ryder It's an efficiency in terms of time, fuel, manpower. If we were doing it on overtime which Main Street snow removal or sidewalk snow removal if I can limit what I have for personnel out there, that saves me in the bottom line in my overtime budget. Alderman Moriarty If the projects for the city or the demands were such that they're big enough, then you would have the occasion often enough to take advantage of the capacity. The counter example if you were in a smaller town - I don't know, Brookline - they would never - even though there's an advantage of using twice the capacity, they would never need twice the capacity. So I'm wondering how often of all the fleet of the trucks are being used, how often that you have the demand for entire capacity such that you need the double capacity? What's the frequency of that? Eric Ryder It really would depend on winter, what we're doing for construction at the time, spring cleanup, the capacity of what's out on the road, the number of calls that we get in, the number of calls within a specific neighborhood. If I could send out one 10 wheeler into a specific neighborhood, I could do that with one loader operator, one truck driver, and maybe one laborer where if I didn't have that 10 wheeler, I may need to send two trucks out, two drivers, two laborers, and then possibly two motor operators. Alderman Moriarty Okay that all makes sense. Just one last question out of almost curiosity. How many trucks are there and how many sit idle during like what fraction of the time are the vehicles sitting idle off of Exit 5? Eric Ryder It really depends upon the day, the week, the job that we have scheduled. Winter time if we have snow, there's no vehicle that's sitting idle. I have those trucks out on the road. We start out with 6 trucks, then we go to 12, we go to an all call, and then we even put our back line trucks out. It really determines the storm and what is ahead of us for construction. Alderman Moriarty Again I just want to make sure that it's not a matter of desired capacity that you don't really use that often or need that often because it only snows - even if it snows 7 times a year which is a lot of snow that means 21 days out of 365 you actually use at max capacity. I'm wondering what aside from snow when do you really need the capacity? How frequently? Finance – 07/03/14 Page 18 Eric Ryder Depending upon if I'm hauling material, I was hauling material stone. My 10 wheelers went to the stone yard bringing crushed gravel back and it gets back to one truck versus two trucks what I can bring back to the yard. We've stockpiled materials for stone especially as Mayor Lozeau talked about sink holes. I need to keep a certain amount of gravel in the yard during this time of year. If something comes in on a Saturday that a) stone yard is not available so I might have to have the capacity that I need to haul out as well as haul into the property wherever the sink hole may be in an emergency sewer dig. So I don't think it's a matter of me looking at it as a requirement to say that I need it as a need but I think it's overall efficiency based upon what we do out of the Street Department and it changes day to day. Mayor Lozeau It's not just volume, it's also weight. The 10 wheeler can hold more weight per a 6 wheeler can. So some things - hot asphalt is a lot different in weight than brush sort to speak. The mill and fill that we did on Broad Street I think was done with a 10 wheeler. Eric Ryder Absolutely as well on Pine Hill Road - we used a 10 wheeler in front of the fire station. We did roughly 550 feet by 18 to 20 feet wide and we had our 10 wheelers running that day. What we can do is we can continue to keep material in that spreader moving, limit traffic... Mayor Lozeau We've cut back a lot on trucks. I think we were at like 168 vehicles and we're down to 137. Alderman Moriarty Thank you. Mayor Lozeau You're welcome. Further discussion? Thank you for coming Superintendent. We appreciate it. MOTION CARRIED From: John L. Griffin, Chief Financial Officer Re: Purchase Up-Fitting 10-Wheel Dump Truck (Value: $150,499) MOTION BY ALDERMAN SIEGEL TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND AWARD THE CONTRACT TO H.P. FAIRFIELD IN THE AMOUNT OF $150,499. FUNDS ARE AVAILABLE IN DEPARTMENT 161, STREET DEPARTMENT; CAPITAL EQUIPMENT RESERVE FUND TRUST; 81, CAPITAL OUTLAY MOTION CARRIED From: John L. Griffin, Chief Financial Officer Re: Purchase Up-Fitting 6-Wheel Dump Truck (Value: $287,726) MOTION BY ALDERMAN SIEGEL TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND AUTHORIZE THE PURCHASE FROM H.P. FAIRFIELD IN THE AMOUNT OF $287,726. SOURCE OF FUNDING IS DEPARTMENT 161, STREET DEPARTMENT; CAPITAL EQUIPMENT RESERVE FUND; 81, CAPITAL OUTLAY Finance – 07/03/14 Page 19 ON THE QUESTION Alderman Deane This the Mill Pond Boardwalk? Mayor Lozeau No this is the up-fitting of the 6 wheelers. We're all set on this one I think. Eric Ryder That would be the parallel outfitting to make sure everything is compatible. MOTION CARRIED From: John L. Griffin, Chief Financial Officer Re: Design Contract – Mill Pond Boardwalk In Mine Falls Park (Value: $20,000) MOTION BY ALDERMAN SIEGEL TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND AWARD THE CONTRACT TO HOLDEN ENGINEERING & SURVEYING, INC. IN THE AMOUNT OF $20,000. FUNDS ARE AVAILABLE IN DEPARTMENT 177, PARK & RECREATION; TRUST FUND; 54, PROPERTY SERVICES ON THE QUESTION Alderman Deane I've been to Mine Falls Park, not a lot but I've been there, and you know and I've been up into the White Mountain National Forrest area. You'll see a lot of this boardwalk type of work done up there. It's done up there for a reason. Lots of times you - the only way to control tree roots if by controlling trees. We know how you control trees right Mayor, you just cut them down. That's how you control tree roots. Mayor Lozeau Well you can put them in pots. Alderman Deane We'll see what happens there. Anyways I think when you look at this idea, I think it's a good idea. These areas within Mine Falls where you don't want to go in there and start disturbing everything. This would stop that and allow the trees to do what they're going to do naturally anyways and still give people a safe place to pass through there. There are some areas where you know as it states, there's a lot of erosion, there's a lot of tree roots. Some of the activities in there with the bikes and everything else create a lot of that. That's part of the use of the park. I think this is something that should be looked into as well. Mayor Lozeau I'll just add to that Alderman Deane that this isn't because it's just a regular trail in the park. I think it's true. I go into Mine Falls a fair amount and there are lots of areas where there are tree roots. The difference here is that this is along the Mill Pond. So it's a prime wetlands and what's happening is there's siltation, erosion that's happening all around that general area. So the goal here is to build a boardwalk up above it so it's not sitting on the roots and then revegetate that space to re-secure that bank in that area. So it's a little bit different than just walking through the trail. It's important to be done because it's next to the water. Finance – 07/03/14 Page 20 Alderman Siegel Thank you Madam Chairman. I actually am in Mine Falls quite a bit and I'm familiar with these trails. I bike them, walk them and I absolutely am in favor of this. Having small kids slipping down the banks also when you want to go fishing... Mayor Lozeau Can they swim? Alderman Siegel Well yes but I don't want them to swim there. Alderman Deane Are those all your bobbers in the trees out there? Alderman Siegel I'm probably the worst fisherman in the world so that's possible. Anyway, I'm in favor of this. Alderman Chasse Yes Holden Engineering comes in with a bid of $15,323 and we're giving them $20,000? Mayor Lozeau It's a not to exceed. It's just in case they find something else they wanted to look at while they're in there. Alderman Chasse $4,700 - I'm sure I could find something to get to $20,000. Alderman Deane I hope it's not wildlife. Mayor Lozeau I hope it's not either but they have not - so they put out the RFP, they got the bids in, and I think their engineering feels that they've not completed - if you look here it says, "The selection committee which included Mine Falls Park Advisory Committee member recommends this company and engineering will negotiate the final scope of work and fee withholding engineering." So I think most of this was done through the Mine Falls Advisory group which is a volunteer group. So I think engineering wants to weigh in and I think that they're trying to make sure that they have room if there's more that they'd like to do. Even up to $20,000, it's below the other two bids. Alderman Chasse I understand that. Finance – 07/03/14 Page 21 Mayor Lozeau But I mean you can't have a volunteer committee doesn't necessarily have all the skills necessary to make sure that the scope of work is complete. Alderman Chasse If I'm reading this right, Holden says, "I'll make the design and all that for $15,000 but I can go all the way up to 20." Mayor Lozeau No they can't. They can't. What has to happen here what this says is the Mine Falls Advisory Committee said here's what we'd like to see happen and put together that. The bid packet, Holden responded to it and said $15,000. The Engineering Department looked at the final documents and the bidding and the Engineering Department is saying before we contract with Holden, we want to do the final scope of work and if we asked them to do something that's beyond what they bid on, we want to be able to include that in the bid. So up to 20. It's not Holden's choice. It's Engineering's because they want to look at it and do that final scope. Alderman Chasse So what happens if the engineering comes up and says it's going to be 30? Mayor Lozeau Then they have to come back here. Alderman Chasse For the other 10? Mayor Lozeau Yeah. It's a change order of $10,000 or more, yes. Alderman Siegel Anything because once it's exceeded the threshold, it always has to come back. Mayor Lozeau No it has to hit 10 before it comes back. I'm just making sure that we're all on the same page. Alderwoman Brown So my understanding is since the contract is up to $20,000 if that changes at all, it would come back to us. Is that correct? Mayor Lozeau No. No. Finance – 07/03/14 Page 22 Alderwoman Brown So that wouldn't be a change - no... Mayor Lozeau It would come back to us. If another $10,000 was put on, it would come back to us. Alderwoman Brown Okay. Very good. Mayor Lozeau If another $9,000 was on, it would not come back to us. Alderman Siegel We don't have to have that debate here. Alderwoman Brown I walked around Doors Pond in Manchester and they have the boardwalks and it's beautiful. It really helps with the uneven terrain. I'm looking forward to this. I've been walking through that park for a long time. Thanks. Alderman Moriarty Part of the problem I'm having I think is similar to what Alderman Chasse is getting at. Traditionally we see the contract and revert on the contract at a dollar value. If that one's contract changes, it comes back. What we're being asked here is not really to approve a contract where we're sort of being asked to approve a budget of which that budget includes a contract for $15,000 and sort of the blank check to the Engineering Department to submit another contract, or increase the contract, or completely rewrite the contract, or whatever so that it doesn't exceed $20,000. Is that a fair assessment? Mayor Lozeau Well this is asking you to approve an RFP for the design of a boardwalk where the Mine Falls Advisory Committee has come in and said that they've chosen a company that can do the work that they've asked them to do for $15,300 out of the Mine Falls Trust Fund. The Engineering Department looked at it and said we want to have the oversight of the final scope of work to make sure that it will meet all the requirements because it's a prime wetlands. So we want to make sure that we have up to 20 in case we add to what the Committee asked for. There is no contract here because they have not submitted a final contract. That does happen in this committee from time to time. Sometimes we looked at scope of service. Sometimes we look at a sample contract. Sometimes we look at a final contract. So all of that happens. If the Committee is asking me to see the final contract before I sign it, I'll be happy to provide it. Alderman Deane We're not being asked to approve an RFP... Mayor Lozeau No you're not. Finance – 07/03/14 Page 23 Alderman Deane You just said that though. You're being asked to approve an RFP. Mayor Lozeau No I said you're - an RFP was done. They have a scope of service... Alderman Deane No when you went to explain to and given an explanation to Alderman Moriarty's question, you stated that you were being asked to approve an RPF. Mayor Lozeau Well I'm sorry that I misspoke. I didn't intend to say that. What I'm saying is an RFP went out, came back... Alderman Deane It was mailed out to four structural engineer consulting firms on 27 May. Mayor Lozeau All I'm saying Alderman Deane is it is correct. The contract is not attached here. If the Committee would like to see it before I sign it, I'm happy to provide it. Alderman Deane I would like to see it. Thank you. Mayor Lozeau Not a problem. Alderman Siegel Would it be appropriate then to table this until such time as we have a contract we can look at? Mayor Lozeau Well I think that they probably would like to move forward and do the scope of work and develop the contract. I think that we could pass it to tell them that we support it and I'm telling you. I don't think I've ever lied to anybody but I'll bring the contract in for the Committee to see it before I sign it. I won't sign it until it comes back to Finance. That should work I think? Alderman Moriarty I didn't mean to diver that. I didn't mean to imply that I'm skeptical or against it. I like the second half of your answer which still will make me pay attention a little better in the future cuz I don't think I remember seeing anything of this sort. The idea that it's sort of we're approving the budget. I'm wondering to myself sort of the ordinances which say once the contract is approved then if it exceeds a certain amount, has to come back in this case, we've approved more than just a contract. So sort of the letter of the law is hard to apply. If it were the first time we ever did that, then I would be worried. I'll trust you in your assertion that this type of a thing happens often although I don't personally remember seeing it yet. Finance – 07/03/14 Page 24 Alderman Chasse Yes where are you going to get the contract? Within a week? Two weeks? Mayor Lozeau I don't know. I didn't ask Engineering. I'll give you an update at the next Finance meeting. If I have it, I'll have it on for that meeting. Alderman Chasse I'd feel more comfortable if I saw the contract first (inaudible) because I'm not looking at this and saying the I's are not dotted and the T's aren't crossed. Mayor Lozeau I understand. I won't sign it unless... Alderman Chasse Even it if went up to $21,000, you know we have the contract right there and it still rests on the other two and...you're putting me in a hard spot. Mayor Lozeau I'm not trying to. This is what I was provided. Alderman Siegel Thank you Madam Chair. Just a logistical question. If this were set aside and this particular item was handled in parallel on the same day as the contract, would there be an inability to get a contract in front of us at the next meeting or is there days? Mayor Lozeau I don't know how long it will take. I can tell you that what Engineering has told me is the greatest challenge is the permitting process. So because it's a prime wetlands, they're very worried about all the steps they have to take in order to get this work done. Alderman Siegel And once again this goes to my question - this particular item whether we vote yeah or nay on this has nothing to do with that is that correct? Mayor Lozeau It has nothing to do with permitting or has nothing to...? Alderman Siegel Yeah to getting the process started because if you're not going to sign a contract anyway until we see it, then they're not getting any funds. Finance – 07/03/14 Page 25 Mayor Lozeau But people are looking to know that there is support for this before they invest time in doing the work to put together the contract is all I'm saying. I think that it makes sense to let the Mine Falls Advisory Committee know that the Finance Committee supports it. I just think that... Alderman Siegel I'm getting a sense and I can only answer for myself, but I'm getting a sense we generally support this we just - I mean I think Alderman Chasse has a good point. We'd just like to see a contract. Mayor Lozeau And I have no problem with that. Alderman Siegel I'd like to make a motion to table then. Mayor Lozeau Alderwoman Brown's hand was up so I'm going to recognize her for that purpose. Alderwoman Brown So even though the amount is quite different, this is similar to what we did with the playground and the contract. So we approved the funds and then the contract was written. However in this case it's much more money for that. I personally I don't have any problem with this because it does give the group the knowledge that we support this going forward and if we have to see the contract before the final approval, I think we're safe. I don't think this is a risk at all. Alderman Deane This isn't comparable to the playground at all. The playground was done legislatively. It was voted on by the entire Board. It was a transfer and appropriation for those services. Attorney Bennett has drawn up a draft contract. He sent it to me to look at. I'm still in the process of looking at it. It exceeds the $10,000 threshold and the contract will come before this committee. Yes it will. It's above $10,000 Mayor. Mayor Lozeau I actually asked that question today of Legal because I wanted to try to get it in and not hold it up. I was told by the Legal Department that it doesn't require coming to Finance because the whole Board has already approved it. Alderman Deane They approved the appropriation not the contract. Mayor Lozeau The contract was part of that appropriation. That legislation was specifically... Finance – 07/03/14 Page 26 Alderman Deane They didn't have a contract. Mayor Lozeau It doesn't matter. Alderman Deane I've got to talk to the Legal Department. I don't want things to start getting a little... Mayor Lozeau I'm just telling you what I was told Alderman Deane. I asked the question. Alderman Deane It seems a little fuzzy to me but that's just my opinion because it's not the way I've seen things in my tenure here. Mayor Lozeau It doesn't matter to me one way or the other. I simply asked the question because we were having a Finance Committee meeting. I looked at the contract as well. Thought maybe we should get it on the agenda tonight so that we can keep moving forward. I was told it doesn't have to go to the Finance Committee. Alderman Deane But that is a contract? Mayor Lozeau I understand it's a contract. Alderman Deane This isn't, right? Mayor Lozeau Okay but... Alderman Deane No wait a minute, wait a minute. The playground is a contract. This does not have a contract. Mayor Lozeau That's correct but the playground did not have a contract when it was voted on by the full Board. Finance – 07/03/14 Page 27 Alderman Deane But the appropriation was already made though. The full Board voted on this appropriation did they not? Mayor Lozeau The full Board voted on the appropriation for the playground. Alderman Deane Did they vote on an appropriation for this? Mayor Lozeau No but the Advisory Committee voted and recommended it and that's usually the course of action for that expendable trust fund. Whatever the Committee's pleasure is - if you'd like to table it, I don't have a problem. Alderman Siegel was going to make the motion to table if that's what you want to do. Alderman Siegel I'm the best tabler around here and my motion is to table it. Mayor Lozeau Tabling is not debatable. MOTION BY ALDERMAN SIEGEL TO TABLE MOTION CARRIED From: John L. Griffin, Chief Financial Officer Re: Contract Award for Portable Toilets Requested by Park Recreation Department (Value: $16,225) MOTION BY ALDERMAN SIEGEL TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND AUTHORIZE EXTENDING THE CONTRACT WITH UNITED SITE SERVICES IN THE AMOUNT OF $16,225. SOURCE OF FUNDING IS DEPARTMENT 177, PARKS & RECREATION; GENERAL FUND OPERATING BUDGET; 54, PROPERTY SERVICES ($11,000); DEPARTMENT 186, TRANSPORTATION ($660); DEPARTMENT 169, WASTEWATER ($2,640); HOLMAN STADIUM ETF ($770); AND MINE FALLS ETF ($1,155) ON THE QUESTION Alderman Moriarty Maybe this is out of order because it's not pertinent because that's a question that had to do with a previous one I wanted to ask about. Mayor Lozeau That's not going to happen. It was tabled. We're not discussing it. I'd be happy to talk to you after class. Alderman Deane Why is wastewater paying port-a-potty fees? Finance – 07/03/14 Page 28 Mayor Lozeau Because there's a location that relates to wastewater. I think it's for some of their construction sites. I think they use it for 2 units with the sewer repair jobs. So 26 units at various parks and playgrounds and there's also one at Elm Street parking garage. That's what Transit pays for and two units for sewer repair jobs. Further discussion? Alderman Deane Yeah I'm not done. Sewer repair job. Where is that? Mayor Lozeau It's used for two units for wherever they might be. So they're portable. They move them to wherever they're working. Alderman Deane So the wastewater treatment is doing the work on the - when they're doing work on the street they're moving port-a-potties around? Mayor Lozeau When there's a sewer repair job that requires people to be on site and it's a big job for a period of time, they will bring a port-a-potty. There was on Mulberry Street for a while. So its sewer work paid for by the department that's responsible for the sewer work. Alderman Deane So when the people are paving the streets, are we supplying port-a-potties for the Street Department for the people that are applying asphalt, and raising manhole covers, and people are striping the roads are we supplying port-a-potties for that too? Mayor Lozeau No Alderman Deane I don't believe we are. Alderman Deane This work that we just approved - this sewer work that we just approved are these going to be supplied for that project or is it just city work - what the city forces are doing? Mayor Lozeau I don't know Alderman Deane. I'd be happy to look into it for you. Alderman Deane You know what it is Mayor, it just seems like the wastewater fund we're asking for increasing and every time you turn around there's some nickel/dime thing taken out of it. Mayor Lozeau I don't agree. Finance – 07/03/14 Page 29 Alderman Deane I do. Mayor Lozeau I understand. Alderman Deane I think you go to the well in the area way too much. That's just my personal opinion. Mayor Lozeau Go to it when it relates to the work that is provided. Alderman Deane Thank you. Alderman Siegel Thank you Madam Chair. There's two port-a-potties for the wastewater and there's a significant difference in the amount attributed to wastewater versus other departments where there is one. I'm just doing the math. There's transportation of $660 and apparently they're getting one. Wastewater gets two and they're four times - literally four times as much. There might be a reason for that I just don't know. That was one of the questions I had because it's split up in a way that that doesn't jive with the amount of units associated with it. Mayor Lozeau It's because the units in the parks are in place and are serviced 3 times a week. The units that are used for the sewer work, they're moving them to the different jobs - the company. They're not moving the other ones. Once they place them there, that's where they stay. Alderman Siegel Understood but transportation has one at $660. I presume that that one's moving around or am I wrong on that? Mayor Lozeau No it stays in the Elm Street parking garage. Alderman Siegel So it's really a reflection of transportation costs associated with those is that correct? Mayor Lozeau Yes that's my understanding. Finance – 07/03/14 Page 30 Alderman Siegel Okay. I didn't understand that. Thank you. Alderman Deane These have already been all placed though right? Mayor Lozeau Yes. They're all in the parks. Alderman Deane They've all been in the parks for a while and we're just approving it now? Mayor Lozeau That's my understanding. Alderman Deane Thank you. Mayor Lozeau Further discussion? Alderman Chasse How much does a port-a-potty cost? We're not buying them we're renting them right? These are rentals? Mayor Lozeau Right. Alderman Chasse How much does one of the cost if we bought it right out? Mayor Lozeau I have no idea and I would suggest that we do that. I don't want to take responsibility for our staff having to clean them, and empty them, and change them out, and fix them when somebody lights them on fire at Lincoln Park which has happened on numerous occasions. We'd have to have staff that would come and clean and empty. Alderman Chasse We've got people - wastewater. Finance – 07/03/14 Page 31 Mayor Lozeau No it's not the same Alderman Chasse. Treating wastewater that comes through a plant and a system is a lot different than emptying out portable toilets, cleaning them, and - we're talking about $16,000 a year for these. $55 a month for the majority of them. That's... Alderman Chasse We prepare for them... Mayor Lozeau Every year - I understand. I just don't want to even take on the liability. If you want to, you're welcome to make that motion and see what can happen. Alderman Chasse I just asked the question on how much one of the costs. After how many years, is it three years, we would have paid for all 26 of them or less than 3 years? Mayor Lozeau It's not just paying for them. Alderman Chasse I understand they've got to be cleaned out but... Mayor Lozeau Removed and placed. Alderman Chasse Do we not have one of those sump pumps that does that down in wastewater? Mayor Lozeau The truck that we have I don't believe would be able to do portable toilets. Our Vactor truck is for catch basins. Alderman Deane The Vactor truck would suck that thing into the back of it. Mayor Lozeau As I said - I'd be happy to look into the price for you to let me know. Alderman Chasse Just trying to look and see how much it would cost to buy one, maintain one, and dollar signs which is a rental of $16,000 every year. Finance – 07/03/14 Page 32 Mayor Lozeau I don't even think I would say that we have enough staff that could clean them 3 times a week. Alderman Deane I don't think we have too many wastewater staff people that have not enough to do that they could add this to their responsibilities. Alderman Deane Mayor I just looked at the capital outlay for this - the truck, you'd need a supervisor, and you'd need a foreman, and you'd need - before you know it, you'd be spending $300,000 a year for... Mayor Lozeau For portable toilets. Anyway. Alderman Deane But this is a contract extension right? Mayor Lozeau Yes. Alderman Chasse Is it the same price for the following year? Mayor Lozeau With the same price that we had last year. Alderman Chasse Thank you. Mayor Lozeau You're welcome. Alderwoman Brown Yes I would think this would take a different skill set and then we'd have to create those positions. I don't think our average worker would be quite interested in doing that. I think this is a good investment in my humble opinion. MOTION CARRIED From: John L. Griffin, Chief Financial Officer Re: Combined Sewer Overflow Flow Monitoring Amendment #6 (Value: $57,200) MOTION BY ALDERMAN SIEGEL TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND AUTHORIZE AMENDMENT #6 TO THE CONTRACT WITH FLOW ASSESSMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF $57,200. FUNDS ARE AVAILABLE IN DEPARTMENT 169, WASTEWATER: WASTEWATER FUND; 53, PROFESSIONAL & TECHNICAL SERVICES Finance – 07/03/14 Page 33 ON THE QUESTION Mayor Lozeau This is also a contract extension with a company that is holding the price that they have had in the last few years with us. MOTION CARRIED From: John L. Griffin, Chief Financial Officer Re: Sludge Dewatering Construction Change Order #6 (Value: $587,200) MOTION BY ALDERMAN SIEGEL TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND AUTHORIZE CHANGE ORDER #6 TO THE CONTRACT WITH PENTA CORPORATION FOR A NET CHANGE IN THE AMOUNT OF $587,200. SOURCE OF FUNDING IS DEPARTMENT 169, WASTEWATER; WASTEWATER FUND; SLUDGE DEWATERING ON THE QUESTION Mayor Lozeau Now in this instance, we are removing items but we're not the company removing them. We're just providing what's being removed. Alderman Deane Who did the cost benefits analysis? Is it the seller that did it? Mayor Lozeau It might have been Casella because they made as you can see they gave us a list of cost benefits being offered to the City but checking at the Board of Public Works meeting, I asked the question about what if the next time we bid this out are we going to have a problem with having a bigger area and the answer I got was all of the companies that do this work are going to the larger truck to have bigger capacity. Alderman Deane What's that doing to the road down there? Mayor Lozeau Well actually it's lighter sludge which is one of the reasons they're able to haul more. Alderman Deane If you're looking at weight, weight is weight whether it's a ton of feathers or a ton of sludge. It's still weight. Right? So what's being made lighter? Mayor Lozeau The sludge itself is lighter. I agree if a ton is a ton is a ton. I get that but I don't know why the road would change any whether they're bringing in half the size truck or bigger truck, they're still coming in and taking out the same amount of sludge. Finance – 07/03/14 Page 34 Alderman Deane I know but if you look at the roadway going in there, that's just a residential road. I don't think it was built and designed to handle constant tractor trailer traffic like it does. You know what I'm saying? It has been paved but... Mayor Lozeau I don't disagree with that but this is a longer vehicle. Alderman Deane A longer vehicle on Taylor Street. Mayor Lozeau I don't disagree. Alderman Siegel Thank you Madam Chair. I was at the PBW meeting and I think one of the things that came out there was that because this is a more standard size, we wanted to go out to bid for other contracts they would be able to accommodate. So there's a possibility if we change vendors that we now can accommodate that instead of being locked into a sole source. I just figured I'd share that. Mayor Lozeau Further discussion? Seeing none. MOTION CARRIED From: John L. Griffin, Chief Financial Officer Re: Contract Award for Sludge Dewatering Construction Phase Services Amendment #1 (Value: $50,000) MOTION BY ALDERMAN SIEGEL TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND AUTHORIZE AMENDMENT #1 TO THE CONTRACT WITH WRIGHT PIERCE IN AN AMOUNT NOT-TO-EXCEED $50,000. FUNDS ARE AVAILABLE IN DEPARTMENT 169, WASTEWATER; WASTEWATER FUND; SLUDGE DEWATERING MOTION CARRIED From: John L. Griffin, Chief Financial Officer Re: Purchase of Sodium Bi-Sulfite Chemical for Nashua Wastewater Treatment Facility (Value: $85,000) MOTION BY ALDERMAN SIEGEL TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND AWARD A CONTRACT TO PVS CHEMICAL SOLUTIONS AT A UNIT PRICE OF $0.0995/WET POUND AND TO JONES CHEMICAL AT A UNIT PRICE OF $0.1155/WET POUND FOR AN ESTIMATED TOTAL NOT-TO-EXCEED $85,000. SOURCE OF FUNDING IS DEPARTMENT 169, WASTEWATER; WASTEWATER FUND, 61 SUPPLIES & MATERIALS ON THE QUESTION Finance – 07/03/14 Page 35 Mayor Lozeau The next four items are the annual purchase of chemicals for the wastewater plant. You may be interested in knowing the first three were able to be reduced in price because we've joined a consortium which we had not been part of before. They were very interested in the City joining. We're the biggest community in the consortium so we've all benefitted from this. The last chemical is the only one that's not a similar chemical used by all the other members of the consortium. I might be interested in seeing that. We saved 27 percent on the first chemical, and 14 percent on the next one, and 32 percent on the third one. So that's a pretty great savings. So I just thought I would point that out. Alderman Siegel Thank you Madam Chair. I appreciate that we're going on that contract. That's helpful. The question I have is why we are dual sourcing sodium bisulfite and paying extra money? sodium bisulfite is not very complicated to get. I guess there was a note in there about making sure that we have a rapid ability to get supplied again if need be but I'm confused something is - what's unusual about sodium bisulfite, versus sodium hypochlorite, or tetrachloride which actually would be harder to get? Mayor Lozeau So the company JCI Jones Chemical which is on this one and the other one that you just mentioned the hypochlorite - they are in Merrimack and they have generally been our provider but they got beat out by this company who's distributing warehouse is in Montreal. So what we expect to never have to use the other company but if we had a very unexpected fast weather event where we needed to have that, getting it from Merrimack would happen sooner than getting it from Montreal. That's the reason that he has them as a backup. Alderman Siegel So the intent if I may continue is to purchase at the lower price except in an emergency where we have no other choice but this way we have a contract in place. Mayor Lozeau Exactly. Alderman Siegel Thank you very much. MOTION CARRIED From: John L. Griffin, Chief Financial Officer Re: Purchase of Sodium Hypochlorite Chemical for Nashua Wastewater Treatment Facility (Value: $130,000) MOTION BY ALDERMAN SIEGEL TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND AWARD THE CONTRACT TO JCI JONES CHEMICAL AT A UNIT PRICE OF $0.0530/WET POUND FOR AN ESTIMATED TOTAL NOT- TO-EXCEED $130,000. FUNDS ARE AVAILABLE IN DEPARTMENT 169, WASTEWATER; WASTEWATER FUND, 61 SUPPLIES & MATERIALS MOTION CARRIED Finance – 07/03/14 Page 36 From: John L. Griffin, Chief Financial Officer Re: Purchase of Ferric Chloride Chemical for Nashua Wastewater Treatment Facility (Value: $20,000) MOTION BY ALDERMAN SIEGEL TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND AWARD THE CONTRACT TO KEMIRA WATER SOLUTIONS AT A UNIT PRICE OF $0.2290/DRY POUND FOR AN ESTIMATED TOTAL NOT-TO-EXCEED $20,000. SOURCE OF FUNDING IS DEPARTMENT 169, WASTEWATER; WASTEWATER FUND, 61 SUPPLIES & MATERIALS MOTION CARRIED From: John L. Griffin, Chief Financial Officer Re: Purchase of Polymer Chemical for Nashua Wastewater Treatment Facility (Value: $200,000) MOTION BY ALDERMAN SIEGEL TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND AWARD THE CONTRACT TO BASF AT THE UNIT PRICES OUTLINED IN THE COMMUNICATION FOR AN ESTIMATED TOTAL NOT- TO-EXCEED $200,000. FUNDS ARE AVAILABLE IN DEPARTMENT 169, WASTEWATER; WASTEWATER FUND, 61 SUPPLIES & MATERIALS ON THE QUESTION Alderman Siegel Okay this one I do have a little bit of a problem with. I understand its sole source. I understand what the Polymer is used for. Polymer is a general term and especially given that this is different than the consortium uses, I'd like to understand why we're using a sole source extremely expensive Polymer that's not being used by anyone else in the consortium. Is there a possibility to examine changing that? Mayor Lozeau No it was already looked at actually Alderman Siegel. They can't meet the molecular weight nor can they get the electrical charge that we think is optimum for the facility's sludge processing needs. Alderman Siegel Is there something about our particular treatment plant that requires the higher molecular weight polymer? Mayor Lozeau Yes. That's what I was told. Alderman Deane What is it? Mayor Lozeau On the memo that was provided by the Superintendent, I was told - and I think it's probably more about volume, how much we have at a time compared to some of the other communities. They don't need the one that can hold that same weight. Alderman Siegel Well I (inaudible) so there's a big difference. Finance – 07/03/14 Page 37 Mayor Lozeau This is the chemical that we have used successfully. Alderman Siegel I understand that but four years of chemistry tells me that this might be worth looking into further. I could be wrong. It's just that when I looked at this, I'm like okay this is just a long chain cationic polymer and there's nothing magical about that. If other facilities are using something different, I guess I would just like to understand exactly why or what we might be able to do to get this cost down. Those costs are really high for that polymer. Mayor Lozeau Well they're keeping the same price but they're holding their same price from last year too. Well I'm just saying. I'd be happy to find you more information on it but I don't want to delay the purchase of this. I mean it is something that we need at the plant. Alderman Siegel I'm not disagreeing that we need a polymer at the plant. I don't know what to say other than I have a problem only because I don't have enough information and I'm sure somebody could come in here and give me a perfectly good explanation but I don't have that right now. I am sensitive to the fact that our wastewater does need to be treated and that this is a necessary component. So I'm in a rock and a hard place. Mayor Lozeau So I think you have to have a little bit of faith in the people that have been operating it for a while that they are not buying something more expensive than they need. I think that we have a very well run wastewater facility. People are certified and know their jobs very well. Alderman Siegel Okay I understand that and none of my comments had anything to do with that. We just recently entered a consortium where we have an opportunity to buy chemicals at other facilities we're using at potentially a cheaper price. Potentially and I could be wrong. They might be using more expensive chemicals but I don't think so. We just had Mr. Ryder in here earlier and after further diligence in looking at the 10 wheelers, was able to identify $18,000 worth of savings. I think that's fantastic. Maybe that opportunity is not available to us. I don't know but this is not a complicated piece of chemistry a cationic polymer. I'm confused why we pay this. Alderwoman Brown So assuming that we get the information that Alderman Siegel wants by our next Finance Committee meeting, do you know what the two week delay would be critical? I guess we don't really... Mayor Lozeau I don't know. I wish Alderman Siegel would have asked at the PBW meeting. I'm just saying. If you would have thought of it then, we probably wouldn't have the question now. I don't expect you to think of everything Alderman. Finance – 07/03/14 Page 38 Alderman Siegel Thank you. I apologize for my lack of clairvoyance. Alderman Chasse Let's see if I can get this right. I do have experience in the waste treatment plant at Hampshire Chemical many years ago. If you use a low grade polymer, what happens is it doesn't thicken the pot to try to per say and it has affect on the bugs that's eating the sludge where that's eating the minerals in there. If a low grade polymer is put in there, you lose your bugs per say and you don't... Alderman Deane Micro-organisms. Alderman Chasse We call them bugs. Mayor Lozeau Coagulating the sludge. Alderman Chasse We always called them bugs. You don't want to lose those because it's a long process going back to try to regrow them. That's why I believe they to use the higher grade because if you don't use that lower grade, you've got more volume per say. It doesn't pull it together. Mayor Lozeau I think that's why he's talking about the molecular weight and the electrical charge that's necessary. Alderman Chasse Well that was back in 1984. That's a long time ago. I forget a lot of things but. Alderman Siegel Yes I'm familiar with - the chemistry and the physics hasn't changed since 1984. So I'm familiar with that. It's just that this is a sole source by one company. There's nothing unique about these particular polymer chains, and you can increase the molecular weight by just making the chain longer. The reason the chain is longer is it wraps around and it's a binding agent effectively. That's why it's charged on one side. That's what it binds with and then it wraps around like a gigantic whip. If that's the case, I mean I think Alderwoman Brown asked a good question. If it's going to create a problem for us to just wait for a couple of weeks to get information, then I don't want to create a problem but if it's not a problem, then... Alderman Chasse The manager down there - I live down in that area when the waste treatment plant was in terrible - couldn't use your yard. Fourteen out of the 16 weeks in the summer time. The Director down there at the time was Rick Seymour and he put these individuals on this kind of plan where they come up with all kinds of scrubbers and things to control the odor in the neighborhood. It worked. It's been working. I was down in the neighborhood a couple of weeks ago. I talked to some of my old neighbors and they said they're doing Finance – 07/03/14 Page 39 a great job down here. I really would not want to mess with the process. That's why I'm always in favor whenever the wastewater treatment plant wants; I give it to them because I want to make sure that they keep everybody happy down there. Mayor Lozeau Well I understand saving money is a great thing and we should do that. I'm not willing to doubt the process that we've been using has been working for us. I had that conversation with the Superintendent about why this couldn't be in the consortium. He explained to me the things I explained to you today. I'm not an engineer. I'm not a chemist. I wouldn't know some of the questions you had asked. Alderman Siegel I'd be happy to trust those and all I would ask I would vote in favor of this but if I could get that information for the future I supposed that would be helpful. I'm sympathetic to Alderman Chasse's statements about the wastewater facility. We don't want anything to go awry there. Only bad things can happen but it would be interesting to see if there was some say to look at reducing those costs. Those are really expensive costs. Mayor Lozeau Well I'm still looking at scheduling a tour for you of the wastewater plant. You will just be in your glory of getting questions answered that none of us could even think of. MOTION CARRIED UNFINISHED BUSINESS - None NEW BUSINESS - None DISCUSSION Alderman Moriarty Regarding the process that's used in general, so it's my understanding which may be incorrect is that we're sort of the final step in contract letting and the big difference in the contract for Greeley Park is the budget was created; expenditures were approved by the Board. Maybe the proper way to go for that Mine Falls would have been to submit it as a resolution to go to the Budget and then that would have been - rather than asking the Finance Committee to approve a budget, maybe we should have asked the Budget approval committee to approve a budget. So I'm skeptical that we as a Finance Committee get things that aren't contracts. They're not final payment but I'm going to keep my eyes open for when that does happen. Even if it does happen and doesn't seem like it's the correct way to do it because if you're going to approve a budget, should (inaudible) resolution go to the Budget Review Committee and improve the budget. Then when it's on monies ready to be spent and contracts ready to be let, then it comes to the Finance Committee because that's when you go to write the check, it goes to the Finance Committee. It does bring up sort of the bigger picture of which I would need to ask Attorney Bennett on this or welcome a comment. The Board does approve the budget for the city but yet once expenditures go and the contract is let, it comes here. So just the fact that the Board of Aldermen has approved and expenditure doesn't by definition mean we can write the check for it in cases. Mayor Lozeau I think the Legal Department will give an explanation. I'm sure Alderman Deane is going to talk to them. Perhaps he can ask them to put it in writing if he wants to answer the question about the Legacy Playground. It doesn't matter to me whether it comes here or... Finance – 07/03/14 Page 40 Alderman Moriarty Yeah but those are, again, this is one example of something that popped up and got me really rethinking the fundamentals - does 2 + 2 = 4 type of process and then the Legacy Playground since we're not naming it, the playground in Greeley Park process is another example. In general if the Finance Committee fails to approve a contract is there any way that the Board of Aldermen can overrule the Finance Committee because the Board of Aldermen can approve a resolution for a specific contract but ultimately when the contract is being let, has to come to the Finance Committee. So one point I convinced myself that if the Finance Committee rechecks a contract, that contract that the Finance Committee can be overruled by the Board of Aldermen but now I'm not sure that's the case. Alderman Deane The ordinances are really clear on that. If something does not pass muster, the Finance Committee can't be circumvented by other means. Alderman Moriarty Gotcha. Alderwoman Brown Then would it be appropriate to discuss it at the budget meeting tomorrow or no? Alderman Deane It's not on the agenda but I guess under discussion we can talk about it. Alderwoman Brown But we suspend the rules... Alderman Deane I think tomorrow's Budget Committee focus is going to be on the budget. It's going to be on the wrap up session. Maybe. I think it's the only thing on the agenda. Mayor Lozeau I think Alderwoman Brown if I can respond to your question as well. I think Tuesday night at the Board meeting when legal counsel is here would be an opportunity for that discussion to take place if somebody wants that to happen. Alderman Chasse Yes two things. Number one for the young lady that's on Lake Street concerned about her sidewalk. I spoke with the Mayor tonight and someone from the city - I'll pass over your information and somebody from the city will be down there to take a look at it. The second thing is now Alderman Siegel you know how I got into politics because I was the Chairman of the Citizens Consortium Committee down there and we worked with Rick Seymour on the project. So that's basically how I got involved. Bernie Streeter happened to be on that committee at that time along with his wife and a few other people in the neighborhood. That's when I decided after that to run for Ward 7 Alderman. Now you know how I got here. Then I moved out of 7 and went to 6. Finance – 07/03/14 Page 41 RECORD OF EXPENDITURES MOTION BY ALDERMAN SIEGEL THAT THE FINANCE COMMITTEE HAS COMPLIED WITH THE CITY CHARTER AND ORDINANCES PERTAINING TO THE RECORD OF EXPENDITURES FOR THE PERIOD JUNE 13, 2014 TO JUNE 26, 2014 MOTION CARRIED PUBLIC COMMENT - NONE POSSIBLE NON-PUBLIC SESSION - NONE ADJOURNMENT MOTION BY ALDERMAN CHASSE TO ADJOURN MOTION CARRIED The Finance Committee meeting was adjourned at 8:33 p.m. Alderman Ken Siegel Committee Clerk