Building & Zoning Committee

“Where People Count” Community Development 1000 Civic Center Drive, Niles, Illinois 60714 Mayor Telephone (847) 588-8040 ● Fax (847) 588-8050 ● TDD (847) 588-8059 Robert M. Callero May 12, 2011 Trustees Chris Hanusiak James T. Hynes Joe LoVerde Louella B. Preston Building and Zoning Committee Meeting 8:00 a.m. Andrew Przybylo Alan Weel Village Manager In Attendance: George R. Van Geem Robert M. Callero – Mayor Joe Annunzio – Village Attorney Village Clerk George Van Geem – Village Manager Marlene J. Victorine ______________ Steve Vinezeano – Assistant Village Manager Andrew Przybylo – Village Trustee Community Tom Kanelos – Planning & Zoning Committee Development Chris Hanusiak – Village Trustee Director Louella Preston - Village Trustee Charles Ostman Rich Wlodarski – Community Development Assistant Director Mary Ann Starzynski – Recording Absent: James Hynes – Village Trustee Chuck Ostman – Community Development Director Meeting called to order at 8:00 a.m. by Andrew Przybylo. Approval of Minutes: A motion was made by Chris Hanusiak for the minutes of the April 11, 2011 meeting to be approved. This was seconded by Tom Kanelos. All were in favor. The proposed sign code, copies from the Village Board meeting or the last Building and Zoning Committee meeting were discussed. Louella Preston stated that she had notes from the Board meeting and questions. The first items discussed were Sec. 78-1.3 General Sign Design Intent page 3 item 4(b). Louella asked for clarification of “All signs should be regularly maintained and repaired or replaced in response to the aging and weathering of their materials.” Rich Wlodarski responded this is no different then the regular property maintenance. If a sign is not maintained the property owner is notified. Louella Preston pointed out that our Village signs on Milwaukee Avenue Welcome to Niles saying All American City are themselves not maintained and we are not modeling what we are asking of others. Andrew Przybylo responded so we all agree that readability is part of being properly maintained. Louella responded yes particularly Village of Niles signs should look proper. We may not have to www.vniles.com change it but be aware of it. Section 78-2.10 Definitions page 10 Public right-of-way width. Louella stated that at the Board Meeting she had a question about referring to only the Director of Community Development and under this section is an example….”determined by the Director of Community Development” and she wondered if it needed any other approval. This is a concern of hers. When it reads the Director of Community Development does that mean that it is only going to be the Director of Community Development or whenever it says Director of Community Development are we going to add or his designee? Andrew Przybylo asked if that would be a problem later if we went through the document later and it didn’t say that. Joe Annunzio stated that you would have to be careful with that and that you would have to go through the entire document as there may be some situations where it has to stop someplace. Louella said okay jump to page 57 Section 78-10.5 Fees 2(b) Annual registration fees. The Director of Community Development…that is where Louella brought up or his designee and that is when it was said that no where else in the document does it say his designee. That brings up the point where in the document should it read just The Director of Community Development and where should it read the Director of Community Development or his designee. Mayor Callero stated that it should read shall “direct” inspections annually. Andrew Przybylo stated so what you are saying is that under Annual registration fees it should say The Director of Community Development shall inspect annually? Mayor Callero responded shall direct inspections annually. Andrew Przybylo stated yes you can do that. Louella responded that she felt we need to go through the document and when the Director of Community Development is listed some of it will be reworded to state either the Director of Community Development or his designee or you change the wording so that it is clear they are directing instead of doing it themselves. Andrew Przybylo then asked Rich Wlodarski if he would be able to do that. Rich Wlodarski responded yes with the guidance of Joe Annunzio. Andrew responded include George as we are talking a smooth operation of that department. Say Chuck is in the hospital for three weeks and it is just him who can approve if a sign can stay outside the limits you are not going to wait so you have to really look at that. Joe Annunzio stated that remember if he is going to be gone for a long time George can appoint someone to handle duty. Louella Preston now brought up the Park District flag poles are more feet above the maximum height. Andrew Przybylo stated if it is outside the parameters of the Village code go to the Village Board and get a variance, no big deal. Rich Wlodarski stated that we were thinking two thoughts with assessing both sides of those towers. One in that particular case from the Park District that would fall under no different than any signs on schools or what the library, police station would be exempt. That would fall under that particular one for the Park District. In the future the suggestions would be all cell towers would have to go for a special use anyway if they did indeed want to make that a flag pole I agree with Tom Hynes idea that it would be incidental if it was approved at the Zoning Board and Village Board level. If it wasn’t it would be addressed at the special use hearings to either allow it or not allow it completely separate of the sign code for flags at that point. None of the towers are going to make the flag pole heights. Louella asked if what Rich said is codified anywhere or does it need to be written not necessarily in this document but in some other document. Rich responded not really as the flag pole would fall under no different than public signs for schools, library, police department which will be exempt from any signage changes in 15 years. If they choose to redo it then the flag pole at the park district would fall under that section. So as soon as this is passed that would be legal. Andrew responded so what you are saying is they are grandfathered in for 15 years. Rich answered no not grandfathered in, they are permanently grandfathered in unless they choose to redo it, then it would be special. In the future though if they were going to build a cell tower it would be justified one way or another approved or denied at the Zoning Board. 2 The next item was page 16 Section 78-4.2 Specifically prohibited signs (7) Vehicular signs. Louella would like a clarification of point a. Andrew Przybylo stated so like Chasers has their pizza truck parked right on the street, it is in the parking lot, but it is on the street. This is saying that it shouldn’t be there. Andrew then asked so during the day it is okay to park by the street? Louella responded that she shops at Four Flaggs and that Cicci’s may look like they are parking on Golf and having extra advertising. If you are any where near Marshalls or other stores there is no parking, you have to park all the way over by Jewel to go to Marshall’s. Doesn’t want Cicci’s truck parked in front of Cicci’s she would rather have it parked over on Golf so it gives a parking space to customers. This is really a catch 22. Chris Hanusiak stated that he as a business is given only so many spaces to park. He is told what spaces are his and is not free to park in front of another business. He does not have access to ANY parking but must park in designated parking spaces for his business only. Louella Preston felt it was not clear, and the interpretation of this. As a trustee didn’t want to see 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. would be this and 6 p.m. to 6 a.m. would be different parking spaces. Andrew Przybylo stated let me just read what I wrote: “ …Special exception may be made where parking is restricted and customer parking takes priority at the discretion of the Director of Community Development”. This would be added right after what is currently written in section a. George Van Geem asked why there seems to be such a problem. Wanted to know if there was a need to even have this section. Andrew Przybylo stated it is important as we have a very specific area ratio to building and then they are adding their truck signage over and above that. George Van Geem stated that is exactly what is happening now. Felt that the trucks that are out there now will still be out there a year from now, nothing will change. Tom Kanelos asked what the alternative is. Mayor Callero responded the way it is written is right. Felt we should stop reading into it, it is written well. Louella Preston now went to page 19 Exempt Flag Size Standards and stated this stays as written. All agreed. Page 19 (8) House numbers and nameplates. Currently reads House numbers and nameplates shall be “allowed”….. CHANGE to House numbers shall be required and nameplates shall be allowed. Doesn’t mean that it has to physically be located on the house. A house number is required in the fire code. Page 30(e) Directional signs. Louella Preston felt this needed explanation. Andrew Przybylo stated these are the signs that usually have an arrow, they could say in or out, they could even say one way. The principle is to direct people into the correct driveway. Louella asked if a business had its name on the directional sign is it considered advertising. Allowed or not allowed? Andrew Przybylo responded it is common sense. You have to have some lead way, if someone is trying to figure out which driveway to take it is common sense to have a business name. Rich Wlodarski said a symbol such as McDonald’s M. That does not hurt anything and it is not considered advertising. Page 30(h) Electronic message center. Louella had concerns about j. under this section. Also felt that proper form would be for these items to be numbered not lettered. Therefore a – k would be 1 thru 11. Joe Annunzio responded with the way this is presented to you is to make it as easy as possible to understand the changes that are taking place. When it goes into the code book it is not going to look like this the numbers will have to match what is already there. (c) Louella stated even if you are using one color, red, it can not fade in or out, can’t get brighter, or an example of a sign that has a flag in the background. Asked if she was correct that would not be allowed. Rich responded yes. That is not grandfathered in, that takes affect immediately. Louella said if someone is getting a sign in September they would have to abide by the new code. Rich Wlodarski responded absolutely. 3  (j) Louella used the example of Notre Dame as they have a flashing sign on Dempster and they are closed on weekends and during the summer. Asked if it was correct that they would be able to have their sign up only from 6 a.m. to 11 p.m. and then it would have to be shut off from 11:01 p.m. until 6:00 a.m. the following morning. She asked if that was correct. The answer was correct. Page 21 item (22) made notation that Notre Dame is a private school not a public school so would it be included as the title of this section is Public/quasi-public signs – existing. Because they are not a public school would they be covered? Rich Wlodarski responded I believe they would with the intent that they are not advertising, generally schools are not advertising. Page 52 Section 78-8.1 Legal nonconforming signs. Currently reads …... the Director of Community Development shall use reasonable efforts to so notify either personally or in writing the user or owner… CHANGE this to read…... the Director of Community Development shall use reasonable efforts to so notify personally and in writing the user or owner… Feels there should be a paper trail. All approved. Page 52 and again page 57 section 78-10.5 Fees. Rhetorical question as this is another area where it says the Director of Community Development. Andrew Przybylo said so to clarify this is where you want the Director of Community Development and designee. Louella responded it would be best to rewrite it to say Community Development shall direct inspection annually. All agreed. Page 61 section 78-10.10 Board of Trustees review Zoning Board of Appeals decisions. Louella Preston stated that it currently reads ... (30) days after the Zoning Board of Appeals decision. The Zoning Board meets in December and the Village Board does not meet in December. The Village Board does not meet again until the end of January. So the meeting from November until the end of January can be 61 days. Andrew Przybylo stated so leave the 30 days after the Zoning Board of Appeals decision or to the next regularly scheduled Board of Trustees meeting. Joe Annunzio stated that no changes will be made until they see the approved minutes from this meeting to make sure we get it right. Louella Preston also stated that the document will be looked through as we discussed whether it be Director of Community Development or his designee but must go through the entire document to figure out where to use this. Andrew Przybylo now brought up Celebratory signs. Celebratory signs are those signs defined as put up in front of a house to celebrate a birthday or new baby. So that all comes back to size and time. Suggesting doesn’t care less about the size but feels time should be limited. Felt 5-7 days would be appropriate. Mayor Callero said to clarify we are on page 18 section 78-5.1 List of exempt signs. (2). Mayor Callero stated that this was stricken from our code. Andrew Przybylo responded that it was stricken at the Board of Appeals but that our expert did not strike it. Tom Kanelos responded that it was originally in by sign consultants then Zoning Board voted to strike it. After discussion Andrew Przybylo stated this section should be in the code and divided into two sections to make it clear between a single event and celebrating events. a. Celebratory of a singular event. No sign limit, and a time limit of 7 days (week). b. Celebratory extolling a positive relationship between a resident and a local institution (such as church, school, fraternal organization) shall be allowed but not exceed ___________________________ in size and shall be maintained in good condition. 4 Andrew Przybylo now brought up Holiday signs. This is found on page 19 (7) Holiday decorations. What the experts suggested a time limit of 45 days before the first day of the holiday they commemorate and 90 days following the last day of the holiday they commemorate. The Building and Zoning Board of Appeals felt no restrictions. Discussion was brought up with soldiers coming home and it is 90 days longer than allowed. There is nothing attractive about lights being up that are not being used and are up. These can become a danger. Tom Kanelos said relating to lights that the Zoning Board was under the impression that this was contradicted at the Village Board meeting that the light issue was already addressed under the electrical code. Apparently it is not. The other issue was religious expression and other types of lawn directions, signs, expressions, i.e. statue of Virgin Mary, etc. How would those be addressed? Under what issue does that get covered? Andrew Przybylo stated can we agree that holiday decorations are for a specific holiday. They should be 45 before and 90 days after the holiday. Mayor Callero stated that this was stricken. New code should read Signs of a primarily decorative nature, clearly incidental and customary and commonly associated with any national, local, or religious holiday shall be allowed. (Note permitted taken out). With weather permitting, decorations shall not be erected forty five (45) days before the first day of the holiday they commemorate and they shall be removed no later than ninety (90) days following the last day of the holiday they commemorate. Andrew Przybylo now brought up political signs. Page 21 (18) Political and campaign signs. This all comes down to you can not legislate content and you can’t tell people they can’t put political signs on their lawn. What you can say is the size and it shall be in good repair. Tom Kanelos stated that what the major opposition here was that no more than 3 signs were to be allowed. Should be allowed any quantity but limit size. Andrew asked what the average size of a sign is. Consensus was not as big as you think. Joe Annunzio said the only thing we have that we can go on is how long is reasonable. The sign has to be there but we can control how long they are there. Tom Kanelos stated doesn’t the state law say reasonable amount of time. Time limit and content could not be limited at all only thing that could be limited is the size of the sign. Mayor Callero stated that is right. Andrew Przybylo stated so let’s just say Political signs shall be allowed on private property not to exceed the size of __________________________. Do not include amount allowed. Do not include height. Do not bring it up. ONLY SIZE. Andrew Przybylo then asked height – do we want to allow it to be on a 6 foot pole or not exceed the grade? Rich Wlodarski stated to be up off the ground is reasonable if 6 feet is the top of the sign. Andrew agreed the top of the sign not exceeding 6 feet was acceptable. Andrew asked if the meeting was over. Chris Hanusiak motioned to adjourn. All agreed. Meeting ended at 9:30 a.m. Note: Mayor Callero stated that Jeremiah should be scheduled back for a 30 minute meeting to discuss. This will be on the agenda for this month to be voted on. 5