Electrical Commission

1 Approved 2 MINUTES OF A MEETING OF THE ELECTRICAL COMMISSION 3 VILLAGE OF NORTHBROOK 4 COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS 5 December 11, 2013 6 7 Commissioners Present (4) 8 Richard A. Jamerson, Chairperson 9 Robert Boiko 10 Bernard Petchenik 11 Dennis Lauer 12 13 Ex Officio Commissioners Present (2) 14 Kevin Frangiamore, Director, Fire Prevention Bureau, Village of Northbrook 15 Tom Poupard, Director, Development and Planning Services, Village of Northbrook 16 17 Ex Officio Commissioners Absent (1) 18 Mark Nolan, Fire Chief, Village of Northbrook 19 20 Other Village Staff Present (4) 21 Jamie Clar, Electrical Inspector 22 Corey Friedman, Electrical/Mechanical Inspector and Electrical Commission Staff Liaison 23 Nick Desario, Assistant Director, Development and Planning Services, Village of Northbrook 24 Gale Cerabona, Recorder 25 26 Audience Members Present (6) 27 Brian Pawlik, Vice President, Morningside Equities Group, Inc., 223 W. Erie Street, Chicago, IL 28 David Strosberg, Morningside Equities Group, Inc., 223 W. Erie Street, Chicago, IL 29 Dennis McKenzie, Regional Vice President, Southwire Company, 102 City Hall Avenue, Carrollton, GA 30 Richard Temblador, Director, Southwire Company, 102 City Hall Avenue, Carrollton, GA 31 Karl Streitenfeld, Chief Electrical Engineer, W-T Mechanical/Electrical Engineering LLC, 2675 Pratum 32 Avenue, Hoffman Estates, IL 33 Mark Gibson, Agents Midwest Ltd., 775 Mittel Drive, Wood Dale, IL 34 35 1. Call to Order 36 Chairperson Jamerson called the meeting to order, in the Terrace Room of Village Hall, 1225 Cedar Lane, 37 at 5:33 p.m. A quorum was present. 38 39 2. Review of Minutes 40 Fire Chief Nolan noted a correction (on page 2, line 37) to indicate Meadow Ridge. Commissioner 41 Petchenik moved, seconded by Commissioner Boiko, to approve minutes as corrected of the October 24, 42 2013, Electrical Commission meeting. On a voice vote, the motion unanimously carried. 43 44 3. Hear From the Audience 45 There was no hear from the audience. 46  Page 2 Minutes of the December 11, 2013 Electrical Commission Meeting 1 4. Review of Request by developer of proposed 9-story apartment complex on Skokie Boulevard to 2 use electrical products not permitted due to local amendments to NEC 2011 (including the use of 3 aluminum wiring and MC Cable) 4 Mr. Pawlik introduced Messrs. K. Streitenfeld with W-T Mechanical/Electrical, R. Temblador and D. 5 McKenzie with Southwire Company, and M. Gibson, with Agents Midwest Ltd. 6 7 Mr. Pawlik advised that the waivers that are being sought are for residences only – not commercial 8 reasons. Mr. Pawlik stated that Morningside Equities Group, Inc. is currently using all requested items in 9 other projects (such buildings were referenced); a team is here to present and discuss the concerns. 10 11 Chairperson Jamerson outlined that there are three components (MC Cable, Aluminum Wiring, & Fan 12 Junction Boxes). 13 14 MC Cable 15 Mr. Streitenfeld stated that regarding MC Cable, 2011’s electrical code allows aluminum and copper, as 16 they are better products than Romex. Metal clad cable is safe when properly installed in conduit; also 17 professional electricians will conduct the installation. 18 19 Mr. Pawlik advised that this building will be owned and rented. The hanging of pictures is prohibited. 20 Chairperson Jamerson advised that each apartment would have to be inspected to enforce this. 21 22 Mr. Streitenfeld stated the product sizing, etc., would all meet table requirements/code (feeders, 23 panels); 5% from service to the last outlet. 24 25 Mr. Temblador reminded that Southwire makes aluminum and copper conductors along with selling MC 26 Cable and single connectors. 27 28 Fire Chief Nolan: 29  asked if this is the same product as utilized at 1000 Sunset Ridge. Chairperson Jamerson replied 30 – the cable is the same 31  voiced his concern about installation. Due to MC Cable being connected to fire sprinkler pipes 32 at 1000 Sunset Ridge, he will vote “no” to this petition. The trained, union installers do not have 33 enough experience to install this properly. 34 35 Commissioner Boiko advised he voted “no” and learned that aluminum melts very fast. Mr. Temblador 36 responded that aluminum melts at 600° (along with installation burn off). Southwire is prepared to train 37 installers properly. Wire and electricity run the same way as conduit. Fire Chief Nolan advised he has 38 never seen cable connected to conduit and is very disappointed with the last project (as it was allowed 39 as a test). 40 41 Chairperson Jamerson stated there are two issues: 42  MC Cable copper conductors, aluminum jackets 43  Feeders aluminum wiring 44 45 Commissioner Petchenik asked – who trains the union electricians? Mr. Temblador responded – some 46 locals have the training. Mr. Pawlik advised the manufacturer would train and install to alleviate the 47 concern.  Page 3 Minutes of the December 11, 2013 Electrical Commission Meeting 1 It was stated that electricians cannot move into other local unions. Chairperson Jamerson advised there 2 are issues with training. 3 4 Chairperson Jamerson asked how many job site visits there are. Mr. Streitenfeld advised – an initial one 5 and then a final visit. Chairperson Jamerson noted that electricians on the previous job were familiar 6 with MC Cable (projects). 7 8 Fire Chief Nolan shared that he has nothing against Southwire. The amendment to the code was made 9 for a reason. Due to the previous job, it is evident that electricians are not experienced enough to install. 10 11 Director Poupard arrived at 5:55 p.m. 12 13 Discussion took place as to wiring in the ceiling (similar projects were referenced). Mr. Pawlik advised it 14 is supported and defined in a tray system. Layering and inspection of cable trays (support system; wire 15 basket tray) were discussed. 16 17 Commissioner Lauer asked if the cable would be prefabbed then brought to the installation. Mr. Pawlik 18 advised it would be cut in the field. Mr. Gibson advised it is cut in lengths. Inspector Friedman stated 19 that becomes an issue as the inspectors cannot see that. 20 21 Inspector Friedman stated that MC Cable is not in Village of Northbrook’s electrical code. One year ago, 22 it was allowed as a test case, and it unfortunately failed. This disappointment confirms going back to not 23 allowing these products. 24 25 Mr. Gibson advised that MC Cable is all around us, and electricians must be brought up to speed. 26 27 Other projects were referenced (Shamrock in Wheaton, IL, where the work/installation was impressive). 28 29 Commissioner Lauer indicated that the focus has to be on the training. Mr. Gibson stated that Local 134 30 needs to be trained with plentiful staff (from Southwire, etc.) at the job site. National installation 31 standards are out there so inspections and guidelines are important. 32 33 Director Poupard and Chairperson Jamerson advised that the work at 1000 Sunset Ridge was corrected. 34 35 Inspector Clar asked why MC Cable is being used over pipe. Mr. Pawlik replied – it’s a cost factor. 36 37 Commissioner Boiko reminded that Springfield’s protocol is: 38  Does it meet a standard 39  Just because it’s approved on a local or national level doesn’t mean it’s safe 40  Affordable housing can be safe 41 42 Mr. Strosberg stated the additional cost of pipe over cable is over $500,000. 43 44 Inspector Clar shared that the Village of Northbrook doesn’t have the time to police, inspect each aspect 45 of the job. This may be acceptable in the future, but it doesn’t seem like the training is there now. Mr. 46 Pawlik stated he would provide a training plan. 47  Page 4 Minutes of the December 11, 2013 Electrical Commission Meeting 1 Chairperson Jamerson asked if the ceilings are poured concrete. Mr. Pawlik advised the walls are metal 2 studs with a metal ceiling (14-inch stud); floor is cement board panel. Chairperson Jamerson shared that 3 the other project was poured in place. 4 5 Mr. Pawlik stated the intent is to wire everything with MC Cable. Mr. Temblador advised there are 6 multiple layers of protection. Conductors are colored. 7 8 Chairperson Jamerson advised he is not against MC Cable, but it has to be installed properly; questions 9 need to be addressed and answered. 10 11 Mr. Streitenfeld advised that the notes/details can be indicated on every drawing/page. 12 13 Chairperson Jamerson asked if Commissioners have enough information to take a vote (or is more 14 information needed). It was decided a vote would not take place this evening. Inspector Friedman will 15 gather information and this topic will be tabled until January. 16 17 Aluminum 18 Chairperson Jamerson asked where boxes would be. Messrs. Pawlik & Streitenfeld stated in: 19  Entry foyer 20  Kitchen peninsula island 21  Bedrooms 22  Family room/dining room fixture 23 24 Director Poupard is happy to write exceptions. 25 26 Fan Junction Boxes 27 Chairperson Jamerson asked if: 28  aluminum cable is intended in conduit. Mr. Pawlik advised if MC Cable is not approved, 29 aluminum cable would be used. Torqueing was discussed. 30  there are installation instructions (as they weren’t found on web site). Mr. Temblador advised 31 that the manufacturers provide this information. 32 33 Commissioner Boiko referenced various cases: 34  Freddie Mac will not allow aluminum wire 35  In Texas no aluminum wire passed the meter 36  In California fire destroyed a trailer home; aluminum wire wasn’t insured 37  Florida Annual Report fire ensued due to aluminum wire 38  Darius Grimes’ Report insurance agent that resists aluminum wiring 39  Ray Tackett fired in 2011, due to burning aluminum wire 40  Versaille Mgmt. Corp. applied for insurance and lied about “no aluminum wire”; complex 41 burned, and insurance didn’t pay claim (as there was aluminum wiring) 42 43 Commissioner Boiko concluded that insurance companies may not write insurance for aluminum wiring. 44 Based on content in last minutes, experiment, Southwire patents, etc., aluminum wiring and 45 indisputable fires are a concern and fact. Insurance coverage may only replace the one location where 46 burning took place. The building won’t be rewired, etc., if it wasn’t an installation mistake. We are  Page 5 Minutes of the December 11, 2013 Electrical Commission Meeting 1 considering a material that is brittle, melts quicker, etc. The evidence is overwhelming and not worth 2 the risk of additional fires. 3 4 Mr. Temblador responded: 5  Southwire is one of the largest copper users in the world 6  Regarding Freddie Mac and non-insurance, it may have to do with branch-circuit wiring (13 7 utility-grade aluminum). Screw materials went from brass to steel. When going from aluminum 8 to steel, they are significant. Feeder, larger wires/alloys do not apply to branch circuit wiring 9 today. An 8,000 alloy is code; properties are better. 10  The U.S. Navy, U.S. Corps of Engineers allow aluminum 11  The methods and terminations are documented. The statement by Commissioner Boiko refers 12 to the wiring in the 70s. 13 14 Mr. McKenzie stated: 15  In Chicago, tons of aluminum have been installed 16  Many utilities are not running aluminum 17 18 Inspector Friedman asked if Alcan’s thermal imaging is a schedule 3, 5, 7. Mr. Temblador advised – it is 19 an option; however, there is no requirement to inspect that. It is difficult to recommend as the testing 20 shows otherwise. A warranty document can be provided. 21 22 Chairperson Jamerson referred to Mr. Streitenfeld’s letter: 23  #1 – “We have specified the use of aluminum cable for many local and national projects and 24 have found that today’s aluminum product is of superior construction, corrects many of the 25 defects of the “old” aluminum cable and when installed by contractors who have proper 26 experience with the product is a quality installation.” Chairperson Jamerson asked which defects 27 it didn’t correct. Mr. Temblador advised there is no impact from a safety standpoint. 28  #1, f – “The installer will maintain a Torque Log to document that the correct torque has been 29 applied per the manufacturer’s recommendations.” Mr. Temblador stated one should never 30 retorque. 31 32 Commissioner Lauer asked: 33  about fault currents. Mr. Temblador advised this would not be present in a residential situation 34  how the building is wired. Mr. Streitenfeld advised – aluminum 35  what size service each apartment has. Mr. Pawlik advised (a similar) 100-amp panel 36  how do you bend this? Mr. Temblador stated – 7 times the external diameter of cable 37  if it is a stranded conductor. Mr. Temblador advised – yes. Chairperson Jamerson stated it is not 38 round. 39  what this is equivalent to. Mr. Streitenfeld referred to point #1 40  if a heavy motor load has an effect. Mr. Temblador stated – no, not a harmonic current. 41 Chairperson Jamerson advised there are harmonic currents (fluorescents, anything electronic), 42 and neutrals would be shared. Mr. Streitenfeld advised – four-panel feeders (full-size feeders) 43 are used. 44  if this would be grounded aluminum. Mr. Streitenfeld advised – it would be copper. 45  Page 6 Minutes of the December 11, 2013 Electrical Commission Meeting 1 Inspector Friedman asked if this is equipment grounding conductor. Mr. Temblador advised – yes. 2 Chairperson Jamerson inquired if it is continuous. Mr. Temblador stated – not necessarily. Ground path 3 is NEC cable and the armor. Other types are in contact with the armor. A healthcare conductor was 4 displayed (but is not being proposed). 5 6 Fire Chief Nolan asked how this is mounted. Mr. Temblador advised – it is mounted in a cable track then 7 supported every 6 ft. and 12 inches within every panel or box; it is secured to building/structure. A tray 8 cable photo was distributed. 9 10 Commissioner Lauer concluded that the contractors have missed the ball in approving a product. Mr. 11 Streitenfeld advised an aluminum feeder will be specified. 12 13 Chairperson Jamerson reiterated there is no way to police the manufacturer’s specifications. 14 15 The following additional information is requested of the Petitioner: 16  Inspector Friedman asked if there is a cut sheet. Petitioner will provide same. 17  Chairperson Jamerson advised that “installation instructions” would be helpful as well as 18 information on exposed conduit. 19  Fire Chief Nolan asked for information on the project at 121 N. Cross in Wheaton, IL. Mr. Pawlik 20 will provide same. 21  Inspector Clar asked that data be supplied of failures of copper vs. aluminum. Mr. Temblador 22 advised – he is not aware of such data. 23 24 Mr. Streitenfeld reminded everyone that during installation, things have to be done at right angles. 25 Mr. Gibson referred to a past Lincolnshire project. 26 27 Commissioner Boiko asked Petitioner if the Commission could be assured that aluminum wire has not 28 produced a fire. Mr. Gibson stated typically, it’s not the wire that causes fires, it’s the installation, etc. 29 Commissioner Boiko reminded that insurance companies continue to not pay warranties – based on 30 incorrect installations – so then, who will absorb the potential fire cost? Commissioner Lauer concurred 31 that fires occurred due to incorrect installations in the 70s. 32 33 In summary, Chairperson Jamerson advised that questions would be gathered from Commissioners and 34 submitted to Petitioner, and a meeting will take place in January. 35 36 At 7:30 p.m., a five-minute break was taken. 37 38 5. Briefing on Miscellaneous Projects 39 Inspector Friedman reviewed various projects (all conducted by Skil Corporation). 40 41 Director Poupard inquired if issues are still being seen with puck lighting. Inspector Friedman advised – 42 yes, stating they are designed to be plugged in. It may be a non-issue as LED strips are forthcoming. 43 44 6. New Business 45 There was no new business 46 47 7. Old Business  Page 7 Minutes of the December 11, 2013 Electrical Commission Meeting 1 There was no old business. 2 3 8. Adjournment 4 The next meeting is scheduled for January 8th at 5:30 p.m. 5 6 There being no further business, Fire Chief Nolan moved, seconded by Commissioner Boiko, to adjourn 7 the meeting. On a voice vote, the motion unanimously carried. Chairperson Jamerson adjourned the 8 meeting at 7:45 p.m. 9 10 Respectfully submitted, 11 12 13 Gale Cerabona 14 Recorder