Board of Park Commissioners

Board of Park Commissioners Special Meeting Minutes Friday, July 6, 2018 4:00- 5:00 P.M. 455 N Main City Hall 1st Floor Board Room Wichita, Kansas 67202 11 CHllR Members Present: Tori Deatherage, Alejo Cabral, Troy Palmer, Bill Ramsey, Hoyt Hillman, Ty Tabing, Eddie Fahnestock Members Absent: None. City Staff: Troy Houtman (Director, Park & Recreation), Sharon Dlckgrafe (Chief Deputy City Attorney), Penny Garding•(Clerk), Troy Hendricks Item Descri11tion Prior to the start.of the meeting, the location was moved to Councll(hambers to accommodate the large audience Call to Order Troy Palmer, President, called the meeting to order at approximately 4:06 p.m. Announcements Palmerwelcomed everyone and stated that public comment will be kept to two minutes per speaker. Each speaker should provide name and address for the record. Deatherage has the list.and will call names. He added the board is all volunteers and looking out for the best interest of everyone. They have the same information•the public has been provided and trying to make the best decision for everyone. Hillman stated_ the.open meeting act says thatif the gro_up,has a rule that supersedes the five minutes per- person, they can follow that rule. Does the City Council or the Park Board have a rule In their bylaws? Dlckgrafe responded City Council rule is five minutes. Ramsey stated the board used two minutes for Pawnee Prairie Park meetings. Palmer requested we compromise and go with three minutes. Ramsey made a motion to set the time limit for three minutes. Motion by Ramsey, second by Deatherage, IT WAS UNANIMOUSLY VOTED to set the time limit for three minutes (7--0). Planning & Execution'of Golf Budget Savings Palmer stated the board Is here today to consider closing a.golf course in Wichita. Everyone has read the sustainability report. Is there comment from the board? Are there questions we can ask? Palmer inquired of Houtman, if the board decides to close this course, who will take care of the land. Houtman responded Park staff will take care of it. It wiU not be taken care of at the·same standard.as a golf course. We will look at making some changes to make it easier to maintain. Maybe some of the sand traps and those types·of things will have changes. For the most part it will be kept as a park. Palmer added we would mow it, etc.? Houtman responded yes. BOARD OF PARK COMMISSIONERS SPECIAL MEETING July 6. 2018 Page 1of23 Ramsey asked Houtman if there have been ahy, talks,.negotiations, plans put in place to sell off any portion ofthe course. Houtman responded notto tiis knowiedge. There:have been different ideas. When it comes to something like this, people always ask what can go in there. There have been suggestions: That is where there has been'some misinformation because no one has made any decisions. There have been no RFPs from anyone. The first business we need to do .is stop the'"bleedingi' We are very much•in the red and:the goal is to·get into the black, as far as the financing of the whole golf.system. Tabing asked Houtman how many events are currently on the books for next three odour months. What would become of those events that have already,been scheduled should the decision be made to close the golfcourse? Houtman.responded to his·knowledge we have eight leagues that have about 25 people per league. We have space at,other golf courses to accommodate those. We. did have one.tournament on the books. It is his unde_rstanding that was cancelled due to lack of'participation. Palmer stated we are now going.to the public, Deatherage will be calling names. ·Keep comments to three minutes. When coming to the microphone, please.state name and address for the record. Please.try notto,repeatwhat previous speakers have said. This'is not a bashing, the board is all volunteer. 1. David Buschschulte -not speaking 2. Lee Cole - not speaking 3. Scott Green - hot speaking 4. Sherri Shofner, 1004 S Apache Dr. -liere we go again; same discussion a few years later. Each time this'conversatioh comes up all the community speaks out loud and clear how much they truly want.the park to tie a golf course. Districtlll and the southeast corridor cannot.manage any more losses. We'.,ve,lost our high school, we are losing Boston Pool and Linwood Pool is being closed.in the.future. Kids that have nothing to do will get.into trouble. Critical decisiona cannot•be based simply on numbers alone. Numbers cannot tell the wh.ole story or,give you th·e whole vaiue oUhis golf'course in our city. lnyour report you consider development opportunitiesJor offering this space that significant neighborhood opposition to the ioss of the golfcourse,ana public space. What about this opposition to closure and redevelopment of our golf course? Arewe not that important? Every neighborhood is important to thewell-being of the city. We are all here tci pleadwith you to keep Clapp Memorial Golf Course open. 5. Jerry Tiemeyer - not speaking 6. Scott Green.(#3 above) asked to speak, 4601 E Meadow Lane -Hejust recently learned. this was happening. He bought his home,based primarily on the fact it o had a golf course across the street. He has invested in,this place for.retirement. If itwere to.go away, ttiere goes his dreams.too. lie cannot.believe there isn't some way to spread the costs over all the courses? There·has got to be ways to adjust budgets. He is personally wUling .to pay extra on taxes to go towards the .course. 7. Harry Gregory- not speaking 8. Ray Mccubbins - not speaking 9. Michael.loop, 4323 E Mt Vernon -he siJpports.moretime to evaluate the problems to see if a solution can be found, Knows it h�s been discussed for years: It .seems it is always.thrown.up without a lot ofnotes. It serves a greater purposes as.a green space or golf course than. a red line on a.budget sheet, Any loss of an.active space is·a loss to the city that can't be measured on a piece ofpaper. This board is deciding the quality of life for a third or fourth ofthe citizens of Wichita. That course•is our quaUty of life space. BOARD OF PARK COMMISSIONERS SPECIAL MEETING July 6, 2018 Page 2 of23  We have several empty.spaces and buildings in the area. It isn't going.to be a profitable thing because we can't fill the.spaces that are there now. In the future, if the only option is to close it, we need to make this our jewel of the city; out Central Park of Wichita. That is what it looks like now. 10. Rob Hughes, Rose Hill, KS - has been a season pass holder for 25 years. The City is being short sighted if close this thing now. In a.5-10 year period they will wish they hadn't, because the city is still growing. The economy is coming around. You will see rounds start to.come up. Are the swimming pools self-sufficient on the money you take in from the people that.swim? The answer is probably no it isn't. Is the golf courses the only ones that have to be self-sufficient? What other programs/departments are self­ sufficient and not aided by property tax. If you are thinking about closing Clapp, how come you spent a million, half-million dollars, on t.he club house 3-4 years ago? That.is just money out the window. I can't believe, if the golf courses are hurting and you need the money and you are going to sell off Clapp and put it in the General Fund, you are not even going to help the rest of the courses with that money. Ramsey stated earlier there was a question and Councilmember Clendenin answered, about what would happen with the money if anythingwere to sell off. Ramsey understood him to say that the money is going to go back in to enhance the park itself. Houtman responded yes, he believes that is his suggestion. Houtman is nonure what the direction is going.to be. We are not there yet we don't know what kind of development or resources are going to be needed there, It is a difficult question to answer. Councilmember Clendenin asked a question regarding spending the money, he would love to see a master plan put together for the green space if you decide closing the golf course is the direction you want to go. The.money needs to stay with the community. He reminded that some time ago he took $1M out of the CIP for Planeview to, in some people'swords, "bail out the park system." District IU has done its part in trying to make sure.that the golfsystem is sustainable. He answered the question about how much the cost for renovating the club house was. It was $100,000. 11. Jim Howell, thanked the board for their service to the city, this is a.hard job. He stated has been in southeast Sedgwick County, District 5, right over Clapp golf course most of his life and graduated from Southeast High School. It is extremely unfortunate we have to have this.discussion today. He challenges the board today, using the phrase, Solve it forYes. The last meeting Councilman Clendenin had, he learned one of the biggest expenses you have is the water. He noticed there is a large amount of water that travels across the golf course when ifrains. Just, thinking outside the box, he asked Manager Layton, why don't we just build a cistern to capture it and water it for a whole month, That is a CIP project, rather than a onetime expense, that would solve this problem forever. What about a rope well, put one in a mile away and pump it in. Are we trying to solve it for yes? Have we really explored those options, I certainly hope so. This is a check valve decision. You can't go backwards, once you go forward, it is done forever. Quality of life in Sedgwick County and the City of Wichita is incredibly important. He has learned that as a county commissioner. We subsidize the Sedgwick County Zoo $10 per each visitor.. Exploration Place right now is over $17 per visitor: He supports the lntrust Bank Arena because it is·quality of life. The reserve fund is dwindling. When you look at all the quality of life irfthe city, whether it be Botanica, Cowtown, the All American Indian Center, Century II, Lake Afton, every one ofthose things, to some degree, BOARD OF PARK COMMISSIONERS SPECIAL MEETING J�ly 6, 2018 Page3 of23  requires some government help to sustain itself. I encourage us to find a solutio_n to Clapp rather than close. it down. 12. Sherry Lupe - did not respond 13. Jim Ward, 3100 E Clark - It is not often he spends time agreeing with his colleague, former RepresentativeJim Howell,_ but today he is right. Do not close Clapp Park. It will diminish our city. It will certainly diminish·our community and.southeast Wichita. He has spent many years arguing against.short term solutions that cause longterm damage. He has argued against Southeast High School going out to west Andover, it would be damaging to our community and harmful to our children. He has argued against the swimming pool closing for the. same reasons. When you take away opportunities for children to have entertainment, they are going to do other thi_ngs and probably cost money on the other end, in either law enforcement or damage to property. Here today saying do not take another quality of life ame�ity from our community in southeast Wichita. The biggest part that is frustrating is irresponsibility of saying we are going to close this park without a plan. We are going to make a plan afte_r it is dosed. This is not the first time. He was in Boston Rec Center 10 years.ago and we filled the rec center with the same conversation. When he served on City Council 25 years ago, we did a master plan-for the golf courses because it was alwayfa monumental task.of juggling to make it profitable. If this is to be a long term capital plan, it should be discussed today what wouid happen if it is closed, so there is notspeculation in-the newspaper or rumors in the community that really cause us a difficult -time to co_ntinue to grow our neighborhood. Reinforce that you_not close Clapp today. 14. Gary Wright, 4319 E Waterman - We keep doing these studies about-losing people, we are losing a whole community. We are trying to get young people to come here. If we keep getting" rid ofthe amenities this community has it is going to keep happening. I don't golf, but did call a friend who is a golfer and he brought something up that didn't I realize. A few years ago did you take the fees at t_he golf courses that were-different and make them all one price? His contention was thatsome courses are-of a lower quality than others. Ifyou are goingto charge th_e same amount for, each golf course, and some are ofa different quality, make ita communal system. You should be taking a lion's share for a time being and fixing the ones that need to be brought up to scale. Then you might see more people using Clapp Golf Course. Then if another one has problems with turf or whatever and people are not going there, they you put the lion's share toward that one. His contention was, he wouldn'tgo golfat Clapp when he could spend the same money and go,go[f at one of the othercourses. Jim Howell had a great idea about a cistern. That is an incredible idea. It's cheap, it's a one-time deal and it would fix one of the problems. The air base,is right nearby. I can't see taking away an amenity to that part of the community. We are going'backwardswhen we do that. 15. Cindy Renard, 1110 Royal Ro_ad - Served on the Golf Advisory Committee for the past four years and very familiar withthis issue. You. are here today and asked to make a monumental decision that will impact our city forever. You-are asked to ma_ke that decision based on a report written·by the very"staffthat wants·to close our course. Let's look at the numbers. The $600,000 loss for Cla11p is being reported heavily. What is not being said is that this main loss has only come in.the last two years. Up until then Clapp was fine. What has caused the bigjump? Are there ways to contai_n it and lo_wer these costs? There needs to be more detail and·transparency. There.are questionable.figures in the report that say Clapp needs $SM in capital improvements. We said before the club house was just renovate_d, we do not need,a $4M new clubhouse. Nor is it likely that it would take $1M for bridge repair. And, a!$5M clubhouse.at MacDonald? These are the numbers that you are using to make this crucial decision? lfit is based on BOARD OF PARK COMMISSIONERS SPECl�l MEETING July_6, 2018 Page4of.Z3  numbers why isn't the staff looking across town. Although it is not spelled out on the report, the debt service scheduled payment for Auburn is $286,000 per year. For the last 10 years the losses for Auburn would be $1.9M. That is eight times what it is at Clapp. City staff knows that Auburn has never been able to cover the debt and operating expenses, and never will. It is not a top performer, the rounds are second to last and is by far the most expensive course to operate. This is the real drain on our municipal system. The $12M cost of Auburn and $5.6M debt remaining is why we are here today and why we were here four years ago.and three years before that. This is the loss that needs to be addressed and options explored, not sacrificing our inner city gem of LW Clapp,which has paid for itself over and over again. It was $200,000 through the power of Eminent Domain in 1954. That is not the answer. If the Golf Division and the City leaders wish to keep Auburn, then so be it, but-let's figure outtogether how to keep our entire municipal.system intact. We have five courses and they are like five spokes in a wheel. They all support one another. Each are different and each have different markets. If you take one out, especially one that is accessible and can be enjoyed by everyone, you weaken the entire system and you are going to create further financial problems. That is a loss you can never recoup. 16. Bill Morton, 1110 S Royal Roa_d -We are here about to witness an unorthodox decision that up until now hasbeen lobbied on a fast track behind closed doors. The meeting today, the postponements, the Q&A meetings and even the media only came about after a few.dedicated citizens·made·the effort to bring transparency. This has brought about skepticism, distru_st and questions to the. minds of those of us concerned .about the management of our park. Quite simply, the decision like this affected so many citize_ns and opening a 90 year old golfpark possibly to developers is what.we should be informed of beforehand, in great detail and not after the fact. Because ofthis we naturally question what really is behind it all. Here arejust a few: Are the totals in the financial report.truly accurate? When we hear about $1M·to repair bridges we kind of feel like it may have been rewed up. Can you truly make a decision on simple totals like this? How are revenues and costs between the-five courses allocated appropriately? Or, are they allocated appropriately? Does the data reflect the most efficient use of resources? Would we.be completely satisfied with how the Golf Division has been managed? Are administrative salaries too high? Are we overstaffed in administration? Have big financial decisions been made, large and small, during the course oftheyear? Why doesn't the scheduled debt payment appear in Auburn's net income? We do not know the answers to these, this is just a few. We do know that we are not satisfied with the way this has come about. We are concerned that premature decisions like this can break down an invaluable asset in the community and city. Once it is gone, it is gone forever. Ramsey stated this meeting was postponed for two weeks, .probably because cit him, asking the Park Board President, because there were a couple members who. were not going to be able to make it to the meeting. He requested the postponement because he felt it-was.important enough that all Park Board members were present. It was not because of anything else. Inaudible comment from the audience about the newspaper. Ramsey responded he did not know what the paper said. 17. Cheryl Greiving, 4614 E. Falcon St. -we are being told the golf courses are in financial distress and the only solution is to dose Clapp Park. Closing Clapp does not solve the problem and that is according to your own Golf Sustainability Report. If nothing is done to-completely change the way the City golf system is organized this is just the first step in a series golf course closures. The five city courses need to be viewed as a whole, each supporting the other or next year,.or the year after, we will be talking about which course to close next. The current organizational system is extremely top heavy with so BOARD OF PARK COMMISSIONERS SPECIAL MEETING JUty6, 2018 Page 5 of23 many golf pros. Why have a structure that is topped by a golf professional and his staff overseeing still more golf pros and assistant pros at each course. Why do you need a pro at each course? Family owned and,operated:a little golf course in the area for 40 years. From experience you do not always need a ,golf pro. Many golf courses, especially ones within the.system framework such·as this one could be efficiently run day to day by a competent staff overseen by a pro,that could be.in charge ofseveral golf courses at once. A single golf professional' whose job it.is to visit and oversee each golf course on a regular basis, working with the staff of each one to see that each is run to the benefit of the whole system. Clapp golf course is an important part of that whole. According to the Wichita Public Golf Courses' website, the .mission of theWichita'Public Golf Courses is to increase awareness of golf in our community and in particular the youth. If that is indeed your mission, why do you close the golfcourse that is the most user friendly for kids and beginners? Why are you not creating events aimed at beginners and youth and holdingthem all at Clapp? It is one of the,easiest courses to walk, the fairways are wide and forgiving. It is the very epitome of a golf course that could help you fulfill your stated mission. Why would you.close it, especially so precipitously, when there are clearly other alternatives that need to be explored? Give us time to explore those alternatives. Palmer stated, hoping Mr. Layton or Mr. Houtman can answer, in ,reference to what you said, in the paper today ittalked about furloughing. Can you tell us about that, we didn't know about that. Houtman responded when the report was being put together it­ became very obvious that there is going to.be a lot more deb_ttotake,care of.going into the red. Just closing the golf course is not going to cover the debt we'are needing to cover. We had to come up with other ideas regarding operations. That includes layoffs and also rotating some closures of golf courses to make up for all the lost·revenue we've had. We don't have enough people coming to the courses and a lack of round.s being played. We are not making enough revenue to cover all the expenses. Within the past two weeks, looking.at.this_ we foul)dwe ne�d to come up with other,ideas and measures to make up the difference. Palmer asked'if.that is on top of, or included. Houtman responded yes, on top of. The first idea was whata,re we goi_ng,,to look at regarding demand across the whole .city. We found we don't have·the demand for five golf courses, we only have demand for three or maybe four. As we'started looking at rest of this year, we are projecting to be $500,000°$600,000 in the red. Some of the other items we came up with __are operational thatwe_are.going to do with,staff and.other operations at the golf coursesto make up for that difference to co·me out in the black. Tabing asked, on the finan_cial/quantitative s.ide ofthis report, someone asked. a question about the cost of bridges at $1M and other: examples. How were these numliers derived and who are the people involved in __deriving.them. Houtmari responded theywent out and found people who do this type of work; whether.it's our irrigation system, which is antiquated at this location, whatwould it take to plit:in new br.idges. Clapp hasjhe most bridges. Wewant to replace them, not'justtheway they are, but we are seeing more water going-through that area, so there is more erosion. We need embankmerits,that are better, stronger, and sustainable into the·future. We talked to experts about the costs. We know the club house is antiquated. If we want to put our best foot forward and do golfing the waywe think it should be done, there should be.a new'club house to meet the.needs. Uproar from the audience. Palmer. requested they allow Mr, Houtman to speak. Restrooms need to be updated, storage for the carts,. all .these things need to be looked at. Uproar continued. Ramsey stated everyone.here is giving you all the BOARD OF PARK COMMISSIONERS SPECIAL MEETING July 6,· 2018 Page 6of23  respect in the world while you are speaking, let's please try to carry that through for everybody else. Let's respect one another. 18. Jaden Landwehr, 150 N McComas - speaking on behalf of LW Clapp Golf Course staying open. Do not want lW Clapp to close because that is where he, and his brother and cousin,. learned to play in the Jr Golf Program. There are around 110 people in the golf program out of450 in the whole City. The course itself is a good. size for beginners as well as all golfers. It also has good greens for chipping'and putting. Some people with disabilities may have a hard time playing some of the o.ther golf courses. LW Clapp is a good size fon\11 ages and all skills. LW Clapp is the only golf course in the southeast area. The other choices would make you go way west,- east or close to down town. Golfers have been going to LW Clapp for the last-few Saturdays. These are some of my reasons for LW Clapp course not closing. 19. Candia Smith, 3427 Elmwood -about3/4 mile from the course. There are some extremely neatareas around that in District Ill. The-City or FEMA came.in took out houses along George-Washington and left empty lots, We've taken a hit on home values. If youJose Clapp Park too, there they go, down further. She learned to play at Clapp, so did her husband, son and now grandsons. She inquired ofTabing, is that what you meant by cities are defined by the experiences people have in those cities? Three generations of golfers play on this course together, family. It is quality green time not blue screen time that has allowed valuable family time, Think about being an employee of the City'.s Golf Division, wondering ifthey will have a-job next week, Large investment in this decision because of three years ago. The younger generations are the key to golf lasting through the ages. That's the revitalization that is on the horizon, a number of new players to game. The.introduction of the First Tee to Wichita.is huge. The program is national and highly promoted by the PGA and LPGA. The USGA is changing their rules to make the game friendlier. The FirstTee has.Z55 youth in this section, Their numbers are going to rise. Their target is inner city youth. It is truly a neighborhood treasure and a good place to learn. 20. Bill Yaeger, 15026 Castle Drive - in favor retaining Clapp open. lt·is a system problem that has been identified by the report. There is a lot of good information in that report. It said fixed costs.have risen, afthe same time usage has declined. Which has caused the cost perrouhd to go from $13.11 in 2001, now it costs $31.49 in 2017. That is an increase of about 2.4'times. Believe green fees are less than $31 per month. One question is; not.sure about how the fee structure works on green fees, golf is relatively inexpensive in Wichita. He would be willing to pay more green fees.to support the system. If we allow Clapp to fail it.hurts the whole system, not just Clapp. What's next on the chopping block, wUI it be MacDonald, Encourage you to take some time to put the master plan together thatthe City Manager recommended. I am sure there are lots of volunteers that would like to be on that and have it be an ongoing system so we can manage golf SO years down the road not just this year and next year. 21. Mike Lange, 1914 S Lori - everybody in Wichita wants everybody to come here to start a small business. You can't get them to show up 1:iecause there is nothing to do in this town. Used to bowl 2-3 times a week, Rose Bowl West is gone, Rose Bowl East is gone, Thunderbird Bowling Alley is shut down, everythingis closing up. There is nothing to do in this town. Think you can close Clapp down with·no plan, keep thinking that because when my mom dies, moving to (expletive) Tucson, A2. "They have 20 public·golf courses out.there: Can play at 7:00 in the morning for $18/round with a cart with GPS and menus on the cart. They will bring food to you. Wait till 11:00 and you can play for $10/round. Would rather look at the Catalina Mountains and Pusch Ridge. Mountains BOARD OF PARK COMMISSIONERS SPECIAL MEETING July 6, 2018 ·Page7of23  than to look at anything in this run down town. If you can't fix the problem maybe you need to go. 22. Melissa Rodriguez, Business Women's Golf.League, 2821 N Rough Creek Rd, Derby­ here on behalfof Carrie Clapp, who has·health issues and cannot be here. Going to read letter for you. She is the great granddaughter of LW Clapp. Express strong opposition to the proposed closure of LW Clapp Golf Course, Great grandfather. was known ·for.his civic responsibility, strong leadership and never ending.dedication to the culture and beautification of Wichita through his tireless work with the city parks. LW Clapp's name deserves to continue f o be honored through LW Clapp Golf Course. Clapp Golf Course is a wonderful anchor of green.space in a struggling neighborhood. As a public golf course, many can access it without spending too much money to enjoy their recreation. The proposed closure seems to be rather hasty without public input.or commitment. Because it is a public course enjoyed by the community of Wichita, a time ofinformation gathering should be considered before making an unfortunate decision. Strongly encourage to oppose this closure. 23. David Lynam, 1968 Longford Ct;- biggest challenge putting together comments to this committee was to organize all the things wrong with the decision-to Clapp GolfCourse. Clapp is the only course east of Main Street, south of Douglas, for the entire city of Wichita, that entire quadrant:of town. The economy of our town, the.general economy, is on the rise. People are finding they have more spendable income. Spendable income heavily influences the playing of golf. It makes•no sense to close Clapp.Golf Couse when there are better days on the horizon, to hurry and make that decision. The fact that First Tee has come to Wichita is a major game changer. The growth of-golf in the area is getting an infusion that should, and will, change the popularity and participation in golf in Wichita for years to come. With the probability of thousands of young people learning the game over the next few years; to dose a course like Clapp, should be a huge benefactor to the young people getting in to the game because ofits location, size, accessibility and playability. To close Clapp Golf Course at this time with the First Tee investing major plans, money, facilities for training.and goodwill, is truly an example of cutting off your nose to spite your face. Nowhere in our Golf Sustainability Recommendations Report is there anything that talks about how to improve the number of rounds. Nothing talks about.the revenue thatcan be generated with golf. Ways to increase revenue, ie promotion, fundraisers improved pro shops, concessions, improvement of the customer experience, customer satisfaction. There is nothing in this reportthat indicates or looks at that aspect. People patronize a business for three reasons: quality of service,.quality service and price. Of those three things, price·is the least important, Unless poor quality and. poor services for a higher price. Now it becomes a number one issue. 24. Jim Freund, 3742 Smyzer Court �The quality of life has.been coyered. Appreciate the report, it makes·a lot.of sense, there are more numbers than:my financial report. Would like to point.out some things you can do. One of tile biggest pr_oblems-is the debt at Auburn. Would ask Mr. Clendenin to fix that. Don't let 2% of this population pay $4.SM of that. Would also like to ask the City to-work closer with the bills to pay for watering the golf co.urses. This is.the City of Wichita. The water system belongs to.the,City of Wichita. We all pay f or.that., Why the golf courses have to pay the City of Wichita for their own water is beyond him. This is a fixable thing. Have.you looked into·a grant to fix the creek? It-is awful looking. Two or three _years ago Clapp reaUy went•downhill. The fairways are mostly dirt, That is because of the drought,,some,things·you can fix and some you can't. Hesston has gone ahead.and put in·Zoysia on.the fairways. This is a BOARD OF PARK COMMISSIONERS SPECIAL MEETING July 6, 2018 Pagel of23  punch in the eye for the south side of Wichita. It doesn't help what goes on on the south side of Wichita. 25. Ashton Boone, 2254 S Crestway- Main concern is that if you close the golf course and leave it open ended there is no telling what's going to go there, We've heard all the rumors in the newspaper what could and what should go there, but nobody really knows. It seems hasty and reckless to simply close it without any idea. There needs to be some kind of contractual arrangement with the people that live here as far.as what is going to take its place. Considering how quick the process been, everyone was kind of blindsided by it. Believe due diligence is close, informing the residents, people that live here, that have to suffer the consequences of these decisions. Shared a crime map displaying Clapp and how it f orms a buffer to keep it out. If you close Clapp that will allow it flow into the nice calm neighborhoods. There needs to be more analysis of what tliat would entail. 26. Brent Christy, 12312,W Haskell - in an article dated April 5, 2016, Mayor Longwell said that he would take that return the investment of the golf carts and the increasesthat happened then, That was four years ago, now we have another increase in golf. It is sad, as a city we-should be making golf more accessible not less. Unfortunately, based on course conditionsand_all these increases, obviously put on golf courses, it is going to hurt.that as well. It is sad to see this is the discussion people are having about closing Clapp. Where ls the.discussion to improve Clapp or save Clapp? What can we do to increase rounds played there per year? We are talking about a golf course that has muddy fairways and tee boxes are overrun with weeds. Been·there·two times in the last two weeks and it is not in good condition. There is trash in the creeks. I am sure some of my fellow citizens would also volunteerwith me to help clean up some of that trash. There are not any ideas like this being talked about. Encourage you to think about that a little bit more. We are talking about low demand at a golf course with these conditions. We·can drive to.Cheney, play Cherry Oaks, for the.same price and they have great fairways. Sand Creek has a great golf course. They have·public championships. It's $30- $35 on a weekend. I paid $39.50 to wait 45 minutes for a cart three weeks ago at Clapp. It is just not effective. Encourage the City and those in•charge to take care of what we have instead of trying to close it. If we close Clapp today what course is next? MacDonald? The-course conditions-are very similar-to what Clapp has right now: That $1M a year we get in cart rental fees, can that not be some of this $200,000 offset as well? 27. Vicki Little, 5225 Emblem, Derby� minutes from Hidden Lakes, but has a City golf pass and always come intothe city of Wichita to play golf in her league. Here once again to fight for the LW Clapp Golf Course to remain open. There may be those on the Park Board that were not here for the last battle, so would like to tell you why we continue to battle over and over. LW Clapp GolfCou_rse was seen as so integral to the well-being of the city that in 1954 the City of Wichita used the power of eminent domain to acquire the course. After 15 months of court proceedings the City prevailed and paid the owners $200,000 for the course. This land should neve"r be sold. This land has been a golf course since the 1930s. For 90 years it has served the city providing an oasis in the middle of the city. It is the cornerstone to the southeast neighborhood. It holds the area strong and is an anchor to Georgetown and the surrounding communities. LW Clapp is a true inner city municipal, a gem of the area. It has a presence unlike a mere park as·it is a symbol of hope and influence to an otherwise lower economic area. It is self-policing as it brings desirable paying clientele who patronize not only the golf course, but the surrounding businesses as well. Municipals were created to provide.the average citizen_affordable access to golf. They were created to serve those who could BOARD OF P�RK COMMISSIONERS SPECIAL ME£TING July 6, 2018 Page 9 of23  not afford to be a member of.a country club. Has our city f orgotten that? LW Clapp serves the purpose of a municipal quite well. ltis centrally located, making it accessible to its patrons. Being the shortest and smallest, it will,.by design have.the shortest duration of rounds, which'makes this course.ideal for.beginners of all ages, for those who walk, for seniors and ladies in the eight leagueswho regularly enjoy the course. Clapp Golf Course can be played in.3 hours. That is lB holes ofregulation golf in 3 hours. What other course can claim that? This small course encourageswalking, it is fun, and everyone with all abilities are welcome.. With 700 young;goifers coming up this year alone, that number will multiply next year when the First Tee Learning Center is fully up and running. When these people graduate from those programs we need a course for these young players to graduate to. LW Clapp is a perfect.compani.ontothis program. The very mission of the Park Board states thafit provides high quality life experiences to the Wichita community and to excel at what we do to the benefit of our community and generations to come. That is exactly what LW Clapp Memorial has always·given and to this day continues to give to the City of Wichita. Please leave our course be for the generations to.come. 28. Nadine Roberts, 2243 N Bramblewood- Firs.t and foremost 1. want to say I do not want to see Clapp closed. But it is beginning to looking pretty dire. I wantto plead for your consideration to atleast "!ait until this season is over, just two more months. One gentleman said other courses would cover us. There is a lot more to. be moved than to just say another course can take care of it. Belong to the Business Women Golf. League. We have over 50 members, 10 ofcthose are new this year andwe play every week. We also have our 2018 Championship Tournam_ent planned and scheduled for lat.er in August along with tourname·nts, festivities and potlucks. We are.also involved in the city team play program. We are expected to take our turn hosting t.hose matches. Also Belong to the Business Women's Golf Association. That originated 40 years ago. We started at.Echo Hills. When it closed we wen_tto Braeburn. Itclosed.w,e went down. to Clapp. We feel like a bunch of.nomads. Echo, .nor Braeburn, neither one pulled the rug out from under us before our season even finished. We gotto finish·what we started out to do. There's a lot more.involved than"to just move it. There is also the VA Golf .League. They also have se.veraLnew mem.be.rs this year. We have scheduled matches throughout the rest of the year, tournaments.and end of year festivities planned to be held at.Clapp. The othe.r seven leagues.at Clapp also have,similar activities,scheduled. Do you care? Do you expect.us to just throw up our hands and say the Park Board just decided to close us down? No•caring, no due,process, noteven a master plan to go forward. Just shut it down and then see what happens. If you close,it down before the end of the season, don't be surprised to see many of our current golfers move :on to non-city courses where they can get consideration and respect. I hope you will reconsider your position on this matter and:move forward to improve what we have ratherthan just shut it dowri. 29. Philip.Matthew, 4BU Willow Point.Ct, Bel Aire - Clapp Golf Course was his high school home course at Trinity Academy. Braebumwas home course as .a junior golfer. lfyou do close wants to make sure the City Counci{considers doing something.with it that ls not another shopping center. There are:shopping centers all over that area. Wichita needs something more to get young people to move here. To quit bleeding tale.nt. Point out on•page 19 of handout, if you net all of the net·columns, the golf courses.actually made $362,000 in 2017. In 2016 theymade:$630,000 as a whole. That is simple math. He is confused on why we·can't have ahy losses·at,a golf course before it.is shutdown. Understand it is the bridges, creeks and improvements to club houses that are needed. Those•are capital expenditures and needed every30 or SO years, not every single year, BOARD OF PAR_k COMMISSIONERS'S�ECIA� MEETING _July 6, 2018 Page 10 of23  year after year. He owns a small business that helps lawn care providers mow lawns across the country. The average of maintaining an acre of land is about $100, so $400/month. Curious how many acres there are and what maintenance is cost when it turns into just green space. Hillman responded it is 96 acres. Matthew.stated that is going to add up pretty fast. It is not we go from losing $235,000to $0. It is not like we go to just zero expenses.. It may actually be more expensive to close down than to keep producing any revenue at all. Clapp is a place where people can learn to golf. It's an entry level golf �ourse. lt·is easy, walkable and short. It.is okay to have a golf course that loses money ifit feeds golfers into the rest of the system. It's okay to have a loss, ask that you don't close.it down and let other golf courses support it. 30. Jerry Sherwood, 1944 George Washington Blvd. - Speaking as a resident of the area and also as President of the Air Capital Disc Golf Cub. Was told you have reason to come into a common interest with the future of Clapp. Speaking with Mr. Houtman over the past few years we've been working on a way for us to try to host major events with disc golf. One of our needs is to have a really high quality championship disc golf course. It is hard to find the proper type ofterrain. We proposed to them that we put in a championship golf course. We are working on that now. It is our hope that paying for that course could help to offset some costs. Have a lot of mixed feelings about what is going on today. I hear a lotof passion and speakers who have given good reasons for you to consider keeping Clapp open. Would support that as a disc golfer and a possible future of a course aligned parallel with that course and also as a resident of the area. Also realize that may not be possible; Definitely on the side of others who have.called for a continued green space. To be ableto maintain an area which enhances the area and gives opportunity f or the area residents to be outdoors. Pushing to make a master plan to keep as much green.space as possible. Do not think you should develop to the point similar to other areas around there. 31. David Robbins, 920 Silverdale Ct. - President of the Fabrique Neighborhood Association. Also on the Urban Infill Committee. Houtman, Clendenin and he have been working on their neighborhood. When it was built in the late40's and SO's th_ere was no greenspace designated. Our children play in street, put their basketball goals in the streets. We have struggled in finding some greenspace in our neighborhood. We took over a piece of ground that is part of the stormwater ditch. We are putting in a mini park in our neighborhood. The cost of that mini park is $100,000. When you make the decision to close this golf course, can you imagine if 10-20 years from now we decide we are going to build a golf course in south Wichita, do you have any idea what that cost w.ilrbe to come in and try to reclaim that ground. You are making a serious decision today. If you commit to getting rid.of this as a golf course, don't even think about the costof what it is going to be ·20 years from now when we decide we want to put in a golf course in Wichita. Would like to suggest that we have a Mayor's Cup for golfers in the city of Wichita. The.Mayor's Trophy to the best male golfer, the best female golfer, and the best foursome team in the city of Wichita. Let's create a completion from the different courses and.the champions from those courses play for the city-wide championship. 32. Dirk Lank, 1131 Royal Road - four years ago we went through this with Clapp because they wanted.to sell the land to QuikTrip, get a couple million dollars and then they were going to mess around with the golf course. They decided not to do that. Here we are, we don't even know how much we can getfor the land,what's going to happen to the land when we close Clapp. Doesn't feel like the City of Wichita or the Park Board has even tried anything that was suggested four years'ago to help improve the amount of rounds at Clapp to make more money. We haven't done any kind of discounts. We haven't offered the military discounts to come, or senior citizens. Even though they are BOARD OF_PARK COMMISSIONERS SPE�IAL MEET!NG July 6, 2018 Pase 11 of23  all city courses, started playing golf in 1982, Clapp.was considered the.worst course in Wichita and still is. There are a lot of golfers.who won't play Clapp. Why not make it more of a beginner course, a cheaper course. More rounds at a cheaper rate still . will generate more money. There·are people atthe base that play and don't have a golf course any inore, maybe they could come play at Clapp if we.made it appealing to them. There.is not going to be any more land in the city to make a golfcourse once this is gone. This is the only course on this side of town besides,MacDonald. When Clapp is gone there is going to be one course on this side of town. Or.we can go to Hidd.en Lakes or Derby. There is already a lot of people from Wichita that go to Derby to use their different facilities. Guarantee they will build.another course and Wichita will help fund it because people will go there to play. The bridges, maybe get corporate sponsors; try to get some of the companiennd money in town to put their name:on the bridge. They don't all have to be fixed at the same time. If we can't make it work as a City or a Park Board, maybe we should try a private enterprise. Maybe someone would be willing to buy land and keep it a golf course and make it profitable. Deatherage stated that concludes public comment. Palmer brought-the discussion back to the bench. Unnamed citizen stated golf is the only reason he is still hear today. Started learning to caddy at Crestview Country Club. Then they taught him how to play golf. LW Clapp was the last golf course that Donald Burns, a gentleman thatcameto Wichita to play golf with them. He was killed in the Murrah Building bombing in 1995. There is a memorial plaque at LW Clapp because that was the course he.loved to play. The most important part of this scheme of things is that we all want the golf course to remain here. It is•up to you, the ones we electto make a decision to vote.with us or you take in.the back room and decide not to do.it. Ramsey stated for clarification the board is not elected. We are appointed volunteers. Palmer asked for questions, comments or concerns from the board. Palmer stated, a couple times there was mention of a master plan for golf committee, and he had not heard that. Is there a ma_ster planJor the whole.golfsystem? Houtman responded we do not have a master plan for the whole golf system, but two years ago we put together a strong. pro-forma that' showed what investments.we need, what we need to . . do to continue high quality golf. Tabing asked if there were numbers. that showed how to keep the system growing, the number of rounds played so in subsequent years we are not.making the.same decision about MacDonald. What is the.strategyto grow the number of rounds.played going forward? Houtman responded we are not for looking meeting.and breaking even. We need enough rounds to go past that so we can continue to put money and reinvestments back into the golf system. We have not even been able to meet the break-even point. That is part of this situation, we don't even have the money to pay our bills to finish this year, much.less to put .money back in to invest in irrigation system or adding amenities or irpproving fairways and tee boxes. We.don't have the resources.to .do that. Audience asked what is the advertising budget. Hendricks and Houtmanresponded $40,000:is•the advertising budget for golf. Ramsey asked if we spend that every year, do.we go over,.do we spend less. Houtman responded we spend that plus more with a lot of leverage. We work with a lot of other folks to get the information out. We do a lot of free stuff on Facebook and our social media with the Golf App. We have been trying everything possible. Hendricks and· staff are very light. We are looking at five full time employees per golf course have been killing themselves BOARD OF PARK COMMISSIONERS SPECIAL MEETING July 6, ?018 Page 12 of23 trying to make these golf courses wonderful. They are trying a lot of different ideas to get more people involved and teach more, getting kids there. This agreement with First Tee is real important. We couldn't have done it without Mr. Hendricks and his staff being involved with that. Staff is working to this make successful. Hillman stated we heard today from someone who owned and operated a golf course. They gave some good suggestions. One of them was that, Mr. Houtman said you were having trouble paying bills, we are in real pressure for that, but within ih the enterprise fund we have five golf courses with five pros and a golf pro in charge of the·five pros and assistants. Those kinds of numbers have made it difficultto pay the bills. We have maybe lost the opportunity to serve the citizens of Wichita by overstaffing our process. Maybe two golf pros could rotate and maybe a business manager or something would work, so that we have a control of our costs. At the rates we are paying that would certainly represent $250,000 year and certainly bring things it much closer. Those are the kinds of things that we need to look at if we are truly going to serve the public. He attended the employee meeting with Mr. Hendricks and his goal at that meeting was to lay off four grounds keepers. The grounds keepers may well be the most valued employees on.golf courses. We have golf pros a_cting as business managers.at the golf courses, not utilized as efficiently·as possible. If you are looking for savings, some ofit can come from within. Ramsey added Hillman said we have golf pros answering phones and doing scheduling, why is that? Is that out ofneed because we-don't have enough people there or is that because they are bored? Houtman responded we call them golf pros butthey are managing the facility, taking care of the day to day business, which includes looking atthe golf shop, selling merchandise, scheduling staff, scheduling all of the visitors coming in for tee times. They are responsible·for the entire operations of the golf course. These folks are working 10-12 hour days, beyond a normal 40 hour week. The golfpros and the assistant golf pros come in early morning to open up the golf course and stay open until very late at night, with very minimal staff. Ramsey added they sound exceptionally busy. Ramsey asked Hillman if he is suggesting to reduce that number. Audience member asked if they get paid well. Hillman responded they are highly paid to open the door and close the door. Ramsey responded we hire more people to do that work and then reduce the number of golf pros, is that what you are suggesting? Hillman responded no, he is suggesting we simply look at the needs of courses and the needs of the citizens ofthe_ city of Wichita more directly rather than the needs of the staff who wrote the report. Ramsey inquired if the. golf pros wrote the report? Houtman responded no, the golf pros did not write the report. Palmer askedwhat the season is._ A couple more months? The·rest of the year? We talked about furloughing people, when would that furlough have to happen. Houtman responded to the question about furloughs, we are looking is the non peak times of December and January closing. If we went to a four course system, we would close two or three and leave one or two open, to.funnel all the golfers to those courses. We would not want to do that when we can generate the most revenue. That way we can generate more revenue at each individual golf course when we do the furloughs; or have a blackout situation for each one of the golf courses. As for the end of the season, we.are bleeding money, we need to find a way to stop losing this money. Unfortunately he does not have the resources to make up the.difference. We don't"have the resourcesto go back and"pay for the items within our city operations. Every year we pay an administrative fee to our IT services and we are not making that payment this year. We are not making a debt payment this year either. We did not make a debtpayment in 2017, and in 2016 only made a partial debt payment. We also have an administrative cost for fleet and we are not going to be able to make that either. BOARD OF·PARK COMMISSIONERS SPECtAL ME£TING July 6, 2018 Page 13 of23 When·that happens, those departments then have to find other ways to make sure they get things done. They are within a budget as well and when we impact their budget it reduces their service and their ability to operate across the whole city. It is a dire situation. As for closures, we·want to look at something as soon as possible, but within the framework of our clients and folks that use our facilities. We want to try to make sure we can finish the season as much as possible. We want to accommodate them as best we possibly can. Ramsey stated earlier a gentleman brought up a good point, on page 19 when you add up the totals for year it shows we are plus $359,206. He assumes there are some numbers that are not reflected that will bring that down to a negative. Houtman responded yes, that is fees we pay to other departments (IT, Fleet) aswell as the debt fee. Ramsey stated we know the golf courses operate on an enterprise fund. Assum·e what you are telling us is that fund is drained, there is nothing there? Houtman responded that is correct. We went through this year and predicted thatwith the loss of rounds we were going to be in this situation. We predicted this three years ago. We knew we were not going to be able to pay bills and not enough dollars to pay staff if we were to just ,work out of the-golf enterprise fund. We have to get General Fund dollars.to make up for that. About.six weeks ago we were.in the red about $250K. If we continue this situation we will be in the.red over:$600,000. Would be happy to pay if we had the ability to do so. Don_'t want to lose golt _No one in the Park & Recreation Department wants to see us lose anything, whether it is swimming pools, recreations centers or those types of things. However, have to w_orkwithin a budget and meet those budget requirements. If not it is an impact on other departments and their services. Until he gets other relief,.other resources, he is bound by the._budget situation. Ramsey asked if we know what the fees paid to other departments are. How much per year? Houtman _ responded his best guess is around $50-$60,000 to each of those areas. To pay for fleet, fuel, mechanics, repairs. To make sure we have internet connection to continue to do_ point-of-sale o_n computers, to do all of our accounting, to make.our deposits, to pay for the accountants that count our daily revenues. Those are all service costs. Ramsey stated if we were to move forward with the closure of LW Clapp, last year we would have a net of $594,920. Would tha_t put us in the positive or are _we_ still in red.:based on the other fees we have to deal with. Houtman·asked Mr.Manning to come down, while looking for numbers, what page is that on? Ramsey stated on page 19 we tookthe same·numbers for revenue and for net income. that showed the positive $359,206 and remove Clapp from that total it giv_es us a positive of $594,920. Is that enough to put into the black or are we still in the red? Mark Manning, Department of Finance, stated the answer to the question is on page 21. At the top it says Operating Margin (Budgetary Basis); in 2017 that margin was $254,860 to the negative. That is adding administrative costs to the numbers that you were talking about earlier. Ramsey responded then based on that; the remo_val of Clapp, if we were basing.it on the 2017 numbers, that would put-into the black. Manning.stated it would get you,a lotcloser. Ramsey added it.is a $235,000 negative off the books. Manning stated it would,definitely improve the positio·n. Ramsey stated, assumingwe had· to close Clapp, at that point, t_hatpark then falls.out of the enterprisefund, is that-correct? Houtman responded that is correct. Then where do the funds to .maintain that land come from at-that point? Houtman respondedjt would have to be worked into the Park budget. Ramsey stated that is.not there forthis•year, so we would just move some numbers around? Houtman responded no we won't move numbers around, we would reduce service at all other parks to make. up the difference. We would work with a contractor to set up a mowing contract similarto our other parks. It will be another 90 acres, not all will need to be mowed, not all will be irrigated, but we will setup a.system wherewe can make it look nice BOARD OF PARK COMMISSIONERS SPECIAL MEETING July 6, 2018 Page -14 of 23 and continue with the landscaping, It will be part of the park budget and absorbed with the other parks, Ramsey asked if there has already been numbers ran or is there an idea of what the yearly maintenance costs would be for that 90 acres. Houtman responded he.does not have that number with him. Hillman stated about $150 per acre per year. Houtman stated when we work with our contractors we are typically looking at.$75-$80 per acre for maintenance per cycle. Hillman clarified the $80 is mowing, there is also tree and other things that go into that, was rounding up with 2017-2018 numbers. It is comfortably in the $130-$140 per acre range, per year. ·Ramsey stated that is $15,000. That can't.be right. Houtman added.it depends on what the cycle.is, whether it is a one week, two week or three week cycle. Some areas will get mowed every two weeks, some will be mowed every three weeks and som·e will be every four weeks. Ramsey stated let's say it is,$150,000. Ramsey added that comes out of a _different budget, not the enterprise fund. Houtman responded it will come out of the Park budget and absorbed with all the other parks we maintain. Tabing stated someone referenced the Urban Infill Initiative and the reality that there is less green space in this section of the city. Is th_at accurate and are ther_e plans to remedy in the future? What additional greenspace might be added to the community goingforward? Houtman responded as the Park & Recreation Department we are always looking for opportunities to add more green space. That is dependent on a lot of things, actually acquiring property cost dollars, you have to look at the maintenance of.that, which costs dollars. All those things we want to.do, we have to balance with. the budget. Right now we don't have resources to.continue to look for those. We are·focusing on upgrading and maintaining what we do have and, continuing keeping our parks as the highest level possible with the resources we have. Tabing added thiswould be a 90 acre addition to the acreage available for greens space in the.community. Houtman responded that is correct. Houtman added it is already counted as park land. If you are looking at our overall park land this is _ included in that, but it is not used as an open park or recreational park because it is a golf course. That would change and depending on what happens in-the future with.this property whether itis 90 acres or more or less, I couldn't tell you. Fahnestock asked Houtman if he feels the market is already saturated enough for golf. Are there too many golf holes per capita for the size of Wichita? Houtman responded as we are looking at the trend, when we had four golf courses, we were peaking at 200,000 rounds. Now that we have five golf courses we are down to 150,000 rounds. That is despite all of our efforts and energy towards marketing and programming. It.is a great investment and idea to get kids involved, unfortunately that investment does not pan out until 5,10 years later. Can only speak to the numbers looking at and how it relates to our courses. We have too many golf holes and not enough golfers. Right now with five golf courses we should be at 250,000-300,000 rounds and we are down to 150,000 rounds. That.is our biggest issue, we don't have enough rounds to keep revenue up and make investments into the golf course. That _is something we need to look at: Hendricks added some of what has put us in this situation is economics. We've lost a lot of good paying jobs in Wichita. Some have ·gone elsewhere and others have been replacedwith lower paying jobs. Some citizens have aged out and not playing anymore or are playing less. The programs we are working with like Jr. Golf Foundation, last year had 438 children in the program across five courses. This year we are up to 510. The First Tee programs are using two of our facilities for programming, Tex Consolver and MacDonald. The third course they use is Terradyne. With the $1M plus investment they are making at MacDonald, it will become their home site. Ten years.down the road with the growth of what we are seeing.in beginners programs, see us getting more golfers, but that doesn;t solve our immediate problem at t_his time. Ramsey asked why did BOARD OF PARK COMMISSIONERS SPECIAL MEETING July 6, 2018 Page 15_of 23 First Tee chose MacDonald over Clapp, which several people have indicated is a beautiful beginner's course. Hendricks responded in 2013 when we had the.opportunity to sell the corner of Clapp Golf Course, our golf committee was asked by the Park Board to look into if we can keep the golf course sustainable as an 18 hole par 70 golf course. We had a golf course architect come in and look at the property, he puttogether a plan, and he also gave two additional plans. Plan A was to keep it a Par 70, sell off the corner and generate enough money to do the renovation, plus give the golf system additional money to use for capital expenditures at the_other courses. Plan B was to take.what is now No. 1 arid No. 10 fairways and make that a driving range and make the course a Par 67.course. He visited with Tom West who is the President of First.Tee, they.were not chartered yet. He.was interested in that, if we were able to get it done. Plan C was to make it.a 9 hole course and sell off some parcels. We took those plans to the Park Board, Bryan Frye was·the Park Board President at the time. He made the motion to recommend Plan Aand the Park Board voted [t down. That is why,.since nothing.was passed, the First Tee group wanted to use the 14 acres next to MacDonald to build their facility. Houtman added there was also some interest in serving the inner city. Ramsey asked about the debt service on Auburn Hills, where does that come from. Who pays the debt at Auburn Hills, is it,self-sufficient; service the debt•itself a_nd still profitable? Houtman responded the debt is paid by all the-golf courses together out of the enterprise fund. Additionally, in 2016 it was only a partial payment, 2017 was no payment and 2018 will be no payment either. We will be·working with Finance, it is important that we pay our staff first. lfwe cannot make_a pay_menton the debt service, we don't. It just extends the life of that debt further. Deatherage stated you said.the predicted numbers for this year was going to be a deficit of about 500,000-600,000. Do we have informat_ion on what the cost would be-to finish outthe season at Clapp and close it afthe end of 2018? Houtman responded it would probably be between 300,000-400,000 in the red.. Tabing a_dded that is really the,delta we are talking about, 300,000-400,000 differential for this year. Houtman responded that includes the savings we are looking at with furloughing staff and having blackouts at some of the courses. Hillman asked if_ the board was ready for a motion, Palmer.asked if there are any more questions from the board. Ramsey responded he'has comme·nts. Ramseythanked everyone. This is a passionate subject. You are an extremely passionate group of.people and everyone has been, pretty respectful. .Glad you came out and got involved in the process; that is important. This is.so tough. There is a senior facility off the course, Georgetown. Had lunch today with several golfers because he wanted their opinion. One said they put their dad there specifically so he.could use that course. He said he won't play that course anymore and described it as dangerous. You have to wear a hard .hat when you play that course. Several times we heard this is a, hasty decision. This has been going on for years. We.heard the same thing wit_h the.pools. We'v_e tried.different things. We are doing everything we can to try to.make it sustainable for everybody. It is not a hasty decision and not easy for staff or the Park Board. We are impacting the lives of that community, we feel that. Theinput received from the public seen·the,most is the uncertainty of what happens to that land if we were to close Clapp. As·a Park Board we do not like to get rid of green space. Clapp, as a goif course, based. on several years ofdata and input from.many people, is not sustainable as a golf course. It can be made into something amazing for the district A community park, you .talk about the.pool closed and you want to BOARD OF PARK COMMISSIONERS SPECIAL MEETING July 6, 2018 Page 16of 23 get your kids involved - splash pads, playground, places for the kids to.go. Nature park, trails. The possibilities are endless. I've heard it'is a jewel, it can be an amazing jewel. We can make it into something incredible f or District Ill. They deserve it. It is such a difficult decision but there is a lot of potential as well. We received feedback saying we realize this but please don'fgetrid of our green space. It's a crime buffer. No one wants to get rid of green space. No decision has been made on what happens to the land. We understand the uncertainty of it. Tabing commented with his background .in community planning there is a lot of evidence that shows property values increase when there is a well-designed park that takes advantage of the natural terrain. We are fortunate that Councilman Clendenin has committed to a master plan. If this was turning this green space into something else I would feel differently about this. With enhanced walkability, some of the nature trails, etc. this will actually serve more people than it currently does. The social equity and the inclusion of more people is greatly enhanced in thatscenario than it is when it is a golf course that costs $28 to play. Citizen.asked do you charge people to go to a park. Tabing responded there would not be a fee to go to a public park. Multiple citizens talking and asking questions. How many parks do you already have? Ta.bing responded someone pointed out that this area·is unde.rserved with green space·in relation to the rest of the city. In terms of how this could be funded Councilman-Clendenin mentioned a couple different scenarios, whether it is through existing park district reserves, the CIP funds, a potential overlay district where businesses in the area contribute an extra SOC·a square foot to provide funding for this; 'There are a lot of different models to do that kind of thing. The fact that the Councilman is committed to exploring that is a good testament to the fact that it will continue to be green space going forward. Hillman.asked Clendenin how expeditiously can you puttogether a master plan. Is it possible to get significant.public input and something together by September so they can finish their league play? Rather .than the board up here talking about the uncertainty of where we are going, find out how we can get some information _about whatthe public wants and put together a public plan for Clapp, Councilmember Clendenin responded any plan that we put together would need public input. The City Manager and he have spoken and they want that to happen·extremely'quickly. Want to make sure that if the decision is to close Clapp as a golf course, that it would stay with the public and we would allow great public access with public amenities, but'that that needed to.be driven by the public and the citizens. We want to make sure it happens pretty quickly. City Manager Layton.added we want to make sure the process starts quickly, but we want to go at the pace of the community to make sure we have enough input, not just initially but through the entire planning process so that we have a consensus when we get finished. Hillman asked how long are we talking about. Could we get it done by September 1? Layton responded.no, not in terms of being able to give the·public a meaningful process, one where they feel represented. What he sees is start the process in August, then from there engaging people in round table discussions about possibilities, then start to narrow. The Park Board needs to be involved in that discussion as well. Clendenin stated we have several neighborhood presidents here today. The thing about this piece of property, it is interwoven between several neighborhood associations. Even as a golf course it is an integral part of the quality of life in that area. Whatever happens has to have input from each of those neighborhood associations individually and we need to have roundtable discussions with those associations' together. We need to make sure we are not ripping away the fabric of the neighborhoods. That we are really giving the community what it wants,.beyond the ability to have a golf course. BOARD OF PARK COMMISSIONERS SPECIAL MEETING July 6, 2_018 Page 17 of 23 Tabing stated if possible there would be a market feasibility report before any land is sold off. There is such a high degree of vacancy in that area with all the commercial corridors so it would be unfortunate to start selling off land notknowing what,the market demandwas. Clendenin stated he has only received a touplevery concerned.phone calls based on newspaper articles from one of the developers in the area who is doing a lot ofwork renovating the Wichita Mall and putting in commercial space. Everyone in that area can recognize the amount of work being done to make that commerciai area nice. He is concerned that we would sell any of that property and turn it into commercial area to compete with, not just him, but other park land. Don't know if that is feasible in talking with experts. If you think there are empty buildings now, justwait if you were to develop as commercial property. There are several mechanisms to look at _to finance something meaningful in that park. It will all be driven based on what the citizens say they want. It is hard to put a plan in place until we get that input. Cabral asked if there is anything else you see that the community can do or could have done to increase the number of holes played. It sounds like the City has put their best foot forward and trying every effort to get more holes played. Clendenin .responded that the golf system is driven off people playing golf. We've known golf is in a decline. PGA is working to change its rules to make golf'easier, but often the reason I don'.t play is becauseJdon't want.to afford a whole set of golf clubs. When you are talking about. youth in impoverished neighborhoods; unless you have a mechanism in place.to provide equipment and money to do those,things it can be expensive. If you go to Planeview cir Hilltop,.the last thing those.parents are-thinking about is putting their children into golf. Maybe as a golfing community we figure out ways to get those kids involved in golfing. We have one:entrepreneur in the.area that wants to put a program together to get Southeast High kids now that they are moved way outsoutheast but live up in this area, getting them involved in golf. He,did his own research and it was tough to get parents excited about the amount of money it would take. Inherently there are some barriers. What could the community have done to prevent it, wish he had that answer. Deatherage thanked staff for their time and work; along with the Park Board, we are all volunteers. We volunteer our time to try to decide what is best for everybody. If we had unlimited budget we would be able to make everyone happy. Appreciate everyone coming out and speaking your mind. To experience it first hand, whether you learned to play golf there, or you live, next door, or you put your dad in the care home, all those perspectives really help us. We couldn't make these _decisions without you. Five priorities pulled from this. Keep the green space. Maintain the Clapp name regardless of the future of it. Make a priority to find beginners a place to play. Minimize our operating deficit. Don't believe in ripping outthe rug from underneath everybody. Maintain the golf course open for play to the end of the season. Ramsey asked if there is a way we can make a motion where we have a requirementthat no land is to be.sold until master plan has been adopted. All agreed it could be done. Ramsey motioned to close the LW Clapp Golf'Course atthe end of the season with the stipulations that the City continues to-maintain the park and that no land can be sold until the master plan for the land has been adopted. No Second. Motion dies. Ta bing stated that means the closure date would be October. The financial hit is still $300,000-$400,000. Hillman responded that is correct. Citizen asked what other forms of BOARD OF PARK COMMISSIONERS SPECIAL MEETING July 6, 2018 Page 18 of 23 revenue streams have been explored other than green fees. Palmer responded that could go back to the master plan. Golf at Clapp as part of a system isn't working. We have huge bleeding over there. Tabing adde_d we are.hemorrhaging money and as.stewards of the park district, not sure we are taking on our full fiduciary responsibility by keeping the course open until the end of the season. Palmer asked if he would want to make a motion.that we close Clapp immediately with the stipulation of the green space being considered in the future. Tabingmotioned to·dose Clapp Golf Course as soon aswe possibly can with the stipulation that a master plan be put in place as.soon as possible and no park land be sold until that master plan is put in place. Fahnestock second. Fahnestock stated he understands there is sentimental value.but also understands seen some recent losses in District Ill. There are leagues being played out there and that would upset him as well, if had to move. We would not be doing our fiduciary responsibility operating under the steps that we are. Citizen asked does it have to be closed or can operations be suspended? Houtman responded if it is suspend wewill not be going forward with a master plan to find other uses for that property. It would then be sitting there waiting. We would still have to be maintaining the golf course. We.would still need to be able to make the repairs, looking for revenue down the road. Palmer added that money would be coming from the enterprise fund because it would still be a golf enterprise. Citizen stated we still have not heard any goal for the revenue streams. Palmer responded that would come up in the. master plan. Citizen you could suspend the course to stop the bleeding until the master plan has been worked out. Then it's we can or we can't, Different Citizen asked if it is possible to keep the golf course open while the master plan is developed. Ramsey respondedthat is what we have been discussing, is what that bleed is. Citizen added you are talking about closing the golf course at the end of this year. Palmer corrected it is the en_d of this season. Citizen asked can't a master plan be developed as an alternative.to fit into the community. Maybe we can't get it by September 1, but can we get itby November 1? We don't lose $400;ooo keeping that one golf course open for four more months because we are only going to lose, that is.four more months, not a year. The. financials don't support that it's that much, so can't a master plan be, as an alternative, be created and then explored while the golf course is open,. pitched to·the community and then you can vote on it in November. That way the community can say "I'm okay.with that, I would likethatplan". Ramsey stated he already made a motion to do.something very similar to that and couldn't get a secon_d. Tabing responded we have a second on the table. Ramsey added his was to close at the end of the season, which should be pretty close. Multiple citizens and board talking at one time. Palmer stated the motion on the table is to close the courseJmmediately and develop a master plan to move forward. Tabing added and not to sell any park property until the.master plan is completed. Palmer stated that motion has been m·ade and seconded. Ramsey asked if he makes a countermotion can it be the same as before. Unknown respondent indicated yes. Ramsey countermotioned to close LW Clapp Golf Course at the end of the season with the stipulation that the City maintain the park and that no land is sold until the master plan has been adopted. Hillman second. Deatherage asked if that includes no possibility of re-opening Clapp as a golf course. Ramsey responded as part of the master development plan the public.has input on what they want that to be, if they want 3 holes or 9 holes and Mr. Clendenin can. find the funds to make it so, that is oh them. We don't warit to say there is no possibility because.who knows what they want. Deatherage asked if in .the language canwe incorporate closing-at the end of the season and no further decision will be made on the operations of the golf course for the next year until a master plan has been decided on. Ramsey responded don't think.we can, we are BOARD OF PARK COMMISSIONERS SPECIAL MEETING July 6, 2018 Page 19 of23 closing it. Deatherage asked we can't close itthrough the end of the year? Palmer responded we can't afford.to no_t close it. Ramsey added we are.pus_hing it to close at the end of the.season. Deatherage stated, right;.so close at the end of the season but without saying yes or no that it will be,there in the spring. Fahnestock added she wants to make sure we are not deciding that.we are indefinitely closing it, that this is somethingthe community supports and.we are able to find... P,almer stated nothing is going to happen to the property until a master plan is put in·place. We·are going,to.have to.maintain .it, assume we are not going to go tomorrow and dig out.the sand. The. re will be some time. If we close it tomorrow you are not going fill-in the bunkers tomorrow and tear down.thellridges. Houtman responded hewill not make any major changes, especially not until a master plan is put in place. Palmer stated for us.to close it today doesn't mean it couldn't-open tomorrow. Citizen asked if a 9 hole golfcourse is part of the master plan. Palmer responded we do not have a master plan yet. Ramsey added that is something you will need to work with your councilman on. Palmer brought the discussion back.to the bench. We have a motion and as.econd. Palmer stated on the countermotion, Dickgrafe _corrected wording to substitute motion, Dickgrafe stated you need to vote on the substitute motion first·and,then.depending on that vote whether you need to vote on the original motion. Palmer stated on the substitute motion we have a.motion and a second, All in favor say Aye (response: Ramsey,�_); opposed say. Nay (Tabing, Palmer,._) Dickgrafe called for a show of hands. Deatherage asked for a repeat of the motion.. Ramsey stated the substitute motion wasto close.lW Clapp Golf Course atthe,end of the season, with the stipulation that the City continue to maintain the park and that no land would be sold until a master plan has been adopted. Undistinguishable comments·stating·"don't like it". Citizen asked.when is the end of the season. Ramsey responded that is a·great question. Houtman responded September 30. Ramsey stated substitute "end of the season" with "September 30". Palmer stated we have.a motion,we have a second. We had.a·vote. Ramsey stated Dickgrafe wanted a show of hands. Palmer stated all in favor of the substitute motion show of hands. 3 hands raised. Dickgrafo stated the'substitute motion fails. Palmer stated the original.motion, by Tabing, all in favor to close the course immediately, have nothing happen to the property until master plan is•put in place and nothing will be.sold. Tabing confirmed that is the motion. Palmer stated motion was made and seconded. All in favor signify by show of hands. Favor-.3 hands raised. Nay-4 hands raised. Dickgrafe stated that motion also fails. Ramsey stated-you can see.we.are not takingthis lightly,.this is a tough decision. Deatherage asked if she.could make an amendmentto include language that no decision has been made .on the actual course fore 2019. We.said we are not going to sell the land, but we never said whether or not that it's.a possibility for it to maintain itself as a . golf course the next year. Ramsey responded that is.where all of the expense is coming.into play is maintaining it as a golf course. lfwe were going to close:it and they were to have to _maintain it is,a_s,a golf course you are still incurring the same expenses. Tabing added to be clear, when he·is talking:about in a master·plan it'.s as repurposed greenspace. It is no longer a golf course. Ramsey stated for•him ifiswhatever thatcommunity decides it is supposed to be. Tabing responded, that is:iight, it is just not a golf course. Ramsey added they may put three holes ba_ck on it. Hillman stated if there is·a,benefit dis_trict established that wants to support it or some other plan like that, it.could stay. It's the neighbors' decision. Palmer stated it.is our decision, we hav_e to decide what we are doing with it. Hillman stated if it is BOARD OF PARK COMMISSIONERS SPECIAL'MEETING July 6, 2018 Page 20of 23 part of the master plan it will be something outside of the enterprise fund. Citizen asked what are the chances of putting in a quarter percent sales tax to help support the golf program through the City of Wichita. Maybe .if you bring the courses back up to good shape your rounds won't go down, they will come back up. There are people going other places to play that is why your rounds are going down. Ramsey responded we don't get to.make that decision. Hillman responded that is an excellent suggestion.when this comes before the City (ounciL Palmer added the other thing we have. to keep in consideration, no matter what we do up here, City Council has to approve it. Is there a new motion? Ramsey stated he can't go with that amendment. If we are going to close it, we have to close it. Feels the plight of District Ill and.can see the passion. Can't add that'stipulation. Would make a motion again if you would support it. Tabing asked fellow commissioners, so we are willing to absorb $300,000-$400,000 additionally in debt if this decision moves forward. Ramsey asked Houtman to explain, it is his understanding this is not an additional $300,000-$400,000 of debt, but where would end up in debt by maintaining it through the end of September 30. Houtman responded the way he is looking at it, if we continue to operate to the end.of this calendar year we will be somewhere between $500,000-$600,000 in the red. How we make that adjustment if we stay open to the end of the month, or two months, or three months, was thinking about that, making the delta $100,000 per month of what we need to absorb regarding debt. Would need to find that from General Fund.dollars from the. Park budget, which would mean that we would have to cut other programs or cut more staff to make that happen. Ramsey stated it seems like the public has implied it is running at a loss of $100,000 morith for just LW Clapp. Houtman responded that is the whole total golf system. All of the golf system is not:meeting all of the numbers. Ramsey added.so keeping LW Clapp open through the end of September would be an additional $50,000 in the red versus if we closed it today? Citizen stated this report tells you how much per year the.expenditures are for LW Clapp, and it is not $100,000 per month. Ramsey stated his question is directed at Mr. Houtman. .Houtman responded it is for the whole golf system. We.could absorb whatever it takes to get throughthe end of the year, but we would have to find those dollars from somewhere else. That is the issue, I have to find those dollars, do I cut staff from Recreation or Parks to make up the difference. Whatever we are short, we need to come up with from the General Fund. ltis not.a fair thing to do to ask other departments to cover those costs. They create a budget they have to handle themselves. Deatherage asked Ramsey for clarification, does your motion include or eliminate the possibility for golf play next year. Ramsey responded it would eliminate. The course would be closed. Palmer added if the master plan was ... Ramsey stated the point being we would be closing LW Clapp, effective September 30. Councilman Clendenin is going to work with his constituents to puttogether a master plan. Whatever they come up with, however they fund it, whatever they want,.if.that includes a driving_range or nine holes, and they have a way to fund that, that is a separate·deal. It is not coming out of the enterprise fund. As far as the Park Board is concerned, LW Clapp would be closed as a golf course effective September 30. Tabing had the same motion just closes immediately or as soon as possible. All we are talking about is the closure date. Palmer.aske'd for a motion. Cabral asked Houtman. ifLW Clapp,· if something turns around, assuming the numbers we have for the deficit, ass·umingwe maintain it.open until the.end ofSeptember, assuming the number ofholes _played does not go up. This is based on trends we are seeing currently, BOARD OF PARK COMMISSIONERS SPECIAL MEETING July 6. 2018 Page 21 of 23 correct. Houtman responded that is correct. We are seeing the trend going down further. Cabral stated the community is concerned about the uncertainty of what is next. We all are. Could we include something in the motion that if this golf course doesn't run a deficit at the end of the year, we maintain it? Is that something that could be possible? The community seems to be behind it and if they are willing to put their money where their mouth is as well, then maybe this course is something they maintain. Palmer stated he thinks that was done four years ago, this same thing happened. All the folks came out and played Clapp Golf Course like it was the best course. The very next year our numbers started declining. Hillman stated he would support that motion if it was made. Cabral stated it would be Ramsey's motion with assuming this course does not run a deficit at the end of the year we would maintain it open. Palmer stated Ramsey's motion only keeps it open until September. Your motion is now saying keep it open until the end of the year. Cabral added assuming that by September we are not running this deficit anymore. That the community gets behind it. Tabing stated alternatively we have two dates: immediately and September 30. What about split the difference and call it. Palmer stated so if it is making money by that month...Tabing added the probability of that happening based on the research in front of us is not high. Just in the spirit of making progress with this discussion, what about splitting the difference. Ramsey stated he can't do it. The community has lost a pool, they don't have same types of amenities that some other sections of the city do. Want to give them every opportunity to enjoy that through the end of the season so that the leagues can finish. Realize it is going to add an extra strain on the Park Department, but if you are taking something from somebody, try to make it as easy as possible. Try to give them as much as you can. Ramsey made a motion to close LW Clapp Golf Course on September 30 with the stipulation that the City continues to maintain it as a park and that none of the park land is to be sold until the master plan has been adopted. Cabral added maybe instead of saying selling the land, we say no decision will be made on the park, the master plan will dictate what happens, when we include the word selling it seems as if we are assuming that we are going to sell the land. Ramsey stated his goal was to ease some uncertainty to the citizens that this was already being sold. Ramsey amended the motion: Motion to close LW Clapp Golf Course on September 30 with the stipulation that the City continues to maintain it at a park and that no alterations to any portion of the park will be made until a master plan has been adopted. That includes no alterations, it means it can't be sold either. Motion by Ramsey, second by Cabral to close LW Clapp Golf Course on September 30 with the stipulation that the City continues to maintain it at a park and that no alterations to any portion of the park will be made until a master plan has been adopted. That includes no alterations, it means it can't be sold either. In Favor by show of hands - 4 (Ramsey, Palmer Hillman, Deatherage) Motion Carries (4-3) Adjourn There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at approximately 6:42 p.m. BOARD OF PARK COMMISSIONERS SPECIAL MEETING July 6, 2018 Page 22 of 23 BOA°RD. O(PARK c6MMISS16NERS SPECIAl-MEETING NIY. 6;'_2�1� Page 23 of_ 23