Budget Review Committee

BUDGET REVIEW COMMITTEE OCTOBER 4, 2010 A meeting of the Budget Review Committee was held Monday, October 4, 2010 at 7:02 p.m. in the Aldermanic Chamber. Alderman-at-Large David W. Deane, Chair presided. Members of Committee present: Alderman-at-Large Mark S. Cookson, Vice Chair Alderman-at-Large Lori Wilshire Alderman Richard P. Flynn Alderman Mary Ann Melizzi-Golja Alderman Jeffrey T. Cox Alderman Diane Sheehan Members not in Attendance: Also in Attendance: Alderman-at-Large Barbara Pressly Alderman-at-Large Ben Clemons Stephen Bennett, Esq., Deputy Corporation Counsel John Seusing, Deputy Chief, Nashua Police Department GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT - None COMMUNICATIONS From: Stephen M. Bennett, Esq., Deputy Corporation Counsel Re: Summary of Amendments to Cost Items in the Nashua Police Communication Employees’ Collective Bargaining Agreement MOTION BY ALDERMAN DEANE TO ACCEPT AND PLACE ON FILE MOTION CARRIED UNFINISHED BUSINESS – None NEW BUSINESS – RESOLUTIONS R-10-56 Endorser: Alderman-at-Large Lori Wilshire APPROVING THE COST ITEMS OF A COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE NASHUA BOARD OF POLICE COMMISSIONERS AND NASHUA POLICE COMMUNICATION EMPLOYEES N.E.P.B.A. LOCAL 125, I.U.P.A., AFL-CIO FROM JULY 1, 2010 THROUGH JUNE 30, 2011 AND AUTHORIZING THE TRANSFER OF $19,000 FROM ACCOUNT #597-86605 “CONTINGENCY-NEGOTIATIONS” INTO ACCOUNT #531-11900 “POLICE-PAYROLL ADJUSTMENTS” MOTION BY ALDERMAN WILSHIRE TO RECOMMEND FINAL PASSAGE ON THE QUESTION Stephen Bennett, Esq. Good evening. I have extra copies of the summary at least if anybody wants one. Budget Review – 10/04/10 Page 2 Chairman Deane Does anyone need a copy of the handout? I think it was included with the agenda. If you would like to walk us through your summary of amendments to the contract. Stephen Bennett, Esq. I would be glad to. I will begin with the first cost item, Article 14 – Holidays. On the prior contracts, the union had a total of 11 holidays, which were 8 of the listed holidays except for the Flag Day, which was added this year, plus 3 floating holidays. Flag Day is the one holiday added. This union is one of the three unions that the Nashua Police Department made up of essential personnel. In other words, when a holiday comes they work it if that is their scheduled work day. It is also a union which they are on a 4 and 2 shift, which is the same as patrol or supervisors. They work 4 on 2 off and it comes out to they have 1 weekend off every 7 weeks. Otherwise they have maybe a partial weekend off. This was offered to them and accepted by the union and makes then consistent with the two other essential personnel unions, which are patrol and supervisors. Chairman Deane Are there any questions in this area? Alderman Cookson Thank you. The second sentence in your summary statement for Article 14 – Holidays says “This is consistent with the holiday benefits provided other unions representing essential employees at the Nashua Police Department.” I went on line to the GoNashua website where they have all of the union contracts listed and pulled down the contracts that you mention. In fact, I pulled down a few others. I pulled down the UAW NPD, which is between 2009 and 2011, I pulled down the supervisors’ contract and I pulled down the teamsters’ contract as well. I was just trying to better understand where your statement about consistency comes about. When I look at the UAW NPD, there are 11 paid holidays. When I look at the supervisors’ contract there are 12 paid holidays. The supervisors’ does include Flag Day. Then when I look at the teamsters’ contract there are 8 holidays plus 3 floating holidays to make up 11. The contract that we are looking at right now for the communications division is going to increase it up to 12. Are we expecting some of these future contracts, some of the contracts that I just mentioned, are we expecting to see the increase of holidays for these contracts when they come about for re-negotiation to make then consistent with what we might be approving this evening? Stephen Bennett, Esq. Your research was correct. Patrolmen’s’ also had you pulled that you would have seen 12 days too. There are 12 holidays not necessarily the same one. I believe the supervisors’ may be St. Patrick’s Day, but that if off the top of my head. Alderman Cookson And Fast Day. But there are 12. Out of the 5 unions at the Nashua Police Department, there are three that are classified as essential personnel; those are personnel that work every day around the clock. Again, teamsters and UAW, which you cited as 11 are not essential employees and that is the distinction that was Budget Review – 10/04/10 Page 3 made is that these are people who work every day, every holiday; every day except their vacation and sick time regardless of…if it is their work day they work it. They are essential. The teamsters and UAW are not. I am not involved in those negotiations at the present time Alderman. I don’t at this time anticipate that will be a negotiated item for those contracts. Chairman Deane I don’t even think we should be talking about that. I don’t believe it is a cost item related to this contract and whatever they do for their negotiations between their Police Commission and the union we should leave it at that. Alderman Cookson Okay. Chairman Deane Although that although it is an interesting question I don’t want to be involved with skewing negotiations or an unfair labor practice. Alderman Cookson I appreciate your guidance Alderman Deane. I guess the question that I was getting at was I have seen some of the contracts that we have seen come before us, some of the earlier ones, establish a precedent and then when we get to a later contract, while we approve it for a smaller collective bargaining group we see those same sort of expectations expressed for a larger group. I was just trying to understand that. I will take your advice and suggest that we not continue the conversation about other contracts beyond the one that we are dealing with this evening. Alderman Clemons Thank you. Just a quick question through you to Attorney Bennett; how many employees are in this collective bargaining unit? John Seusing I think 14 or 15. Alderman Clemons Thank you. Chairman Deane Are there any other questions on this cost item? Budget Review – 10/04/10 Page 4 Alderman Flynn When you go to the budget book and try to find these 14-15 positions, would you know how they are listed in the budget book? Stephen Bennett, Esq. You mean what their title is? Alderman Flynn Well there are 3 dispatchers I am assuming those belong in this contract. Stephen Bennett, Esq. I think there are more now. They might have just hired… Alderman Flynn There are 9 tech communications. That is 12, and there are 2 probationary dispatchers. That is 14. Do you think that is everybody? John Seusing There is actually one other that we are getting ready to bring on board to hire. In fact we should be reaching out to that person this week. She will be going into a CT, communications tech. Alderman Flynn I came up with almost the same number as you. One thing that I wanted to understand a little bit more is in terms of your comments about this holiday is somewhat justified because these people are essential employees and they are scheduled to work holidays I guess whatever their pattern is if they are in the wrong pattern they end up getting scheduled to work that particular holiday, is that how it works? Stephen Bennett, Esq. It is. They work their 4/2 and if it is a holiday they work it. Alderman Flynn Is everybody in this group a 4/2? Are there any people working 5 days a week or is everybody a 4/2? John Seusing In this union here? Alderman Flynn Yes. Budget Review – 10/04/10 Page 5 John Seusing All 4 and 2 as far as I know. Alderman Flynn I am trying to understand why they would get another holiday off and I am trying to look at them as essential employees, and when I try to work that routine of 4 days on 2 days off, by the end of the year people that are working a 4/2 actually work 17 days less per year than someone who works 5 days on 2 days off. Stephen Bennett, Esq. I believe you are right. John Seusing That is correct. Alderman Flynn So they are getting 17 extra days off and as a matter of being in this group of individuals, this essential employees group, that schedule is set up 4/2 because you need somebody there all the time I take it, and because of that consequence we are adding another holiday on top of that? Stephen Bennett, Esq. I don’t think that was the only factor involved. Alderman Flynn Why would we be willing to add another holiday then? John Seusing They are not getting that day off. Stephen Bennett, Esq. Essentially depending on if they are scheduled, they get a day’s pay extra. If they are not scheduled they get their holiday pay. Everything is not a one for one exchange when you are negotiating. When you are negotiating a contract there are a number of issues out there that we try to address. I don’t think there is any way of saying that an additional benefit that is given is for a specific reason. A lot of it is compensation and they look at compensation in different ways. It may be an increase in the hourly rate it may be an extra vacation day or a holiday. It is hard to put just one reason on why you may reach a result and add a benefit. Alderman Flynn I believe I understand what you are saying. This is very hard for me myself I think to kind of go through and Budget Review – 10/04/10 Page 6 try to appreciate the cost associated with this contract. That is really what we are here for you know is to understand the cost. The cost of the holiday is on here. Apparently it is going to cost an extra $3,000 this year for the holiday. They are giving up a ¼ of a holiday as well though aren’t they, Presidents’ Day is gone? Stephen Bennett, Esq. They essentially well I think it is Presidents’ Day every… Alderman Flynn It is presidential Election Day or something. Stephen Bennett, Esq. Right. Alderman Flynn th Every 4 year so they are giving that up right? Stephen Bennett, Esq. Yes. John Seusing Right because if not then there would be a year where they would actually get 13 paid holidays. Alderman Flynn I am all set. Chairman Deane Are there any other questions on this? Stephen Bennett, Esq. Article 23 – Wage and Titles, this union has a grid which was put in place the last time around approximately 3 years ago. Under the change in the law grids or pay plans as it is referred to are status quo, they remain in the contract until changed by any subsequent amendments to the article. In this case, the grid remained the same at 2% except for the years 5, 10, and 15, and those are 4% increases for those employees who reach their 5, 10, or 15 years of service. That again was part of the original grid. It was a way of building in the longevity pay. They had found that there were patterns in their employees leaving at about 5, 10, and 15 years and we were trying to build in some incentive to keep the employees. The problem with filling these essential positions, not the problem, but the fact is that when you fill these we had to fill them with someone outside the union you fill them with police officers at a considerably higher rate come in and fill it. Budget Review – 10/04/10 Page 7 We were looking to lessen essentially police overtime by encouraging or trying to encourage our employees in this union to stay longer. That was the longevity. That grid at 2% except for those 3 years remains the same. There was an additional cost of living increase of .5%, which brought I think in this year all but I think there were only 2 employees who had a 5, 10, or 15 year anniversary so the great majority of the members got a 2.5% increase, which was consistent with the other contracts we have had across the city for the 2011 fiscal year. Alderman Cookson Thank you. Attorney Bennett can you refresh my memory when was the longevity, the 5, 10, and 15 year at 4% increases when was that approved or adopted? Stephen Bennett, Esq. I believe you voted on it in September of 2008. Alderman Cookson Thank you. And you said since it was adopted in September of 2008, 2 employees have met the criteria to receive longevity or have there been… Stephen Bennett, Esq. I believe it is this year. This year I was referring to. Alderman Cookson Only this year there were 2. Stephen Bennett, Esq. Right. Alderman Cookson So in 2010 there were 2 employees that met that 5, 10, or 15 year benchmark or milestone. Do we know how many received it last year? Stephen Bennett, Esq. I don’t. Alderman Cookson You indicated to us that it was put in there as an incentive to retain employees, and I was just trying to determine how many employees have actually reached those milestones and how effective it was at retaining the employees. Have you seen turnover? Budget Review – 10/04/10 Page 8 John Seusing We have not no. Alderman Cookson Did you see turnover in this division prior to 2008? John Seusing Prior to 2008 I recall there were a couple of dispatchers that had left, what year exactly I don’t recall. It was probably around that time or shortly before that. Alderman Cookson Okay. I would be interested in knowing how many employees have actually reached those milestones since this was adopted. Just a number and maybe which milestone they reached whether it was the 5, 10, 0r 15, and I think also another interesting perspective is why isn’t there a 20 year milestone? Are you seeing that the employees typically stay for between 5 and 15 years and then they move on? What is driving those three milestones? Stephen Bennett, Esq. I believe we have 1 employee who is topped out in the union. I think you will see a provision in here that allows for a 2% increase for that employee. I can’t really speak to the longevity of all of the employees. I do know in just looking at the basic information we get on the employees they are pretty well spread across the spectrum although my bet is that more than…there are a fair number of younger ones. John Seusing Probably the majority I would say. I think there is only 1 that has 20+ years. Alderman Cookson Okay. John Seusing So you asked the question about why doesn’t that go up to 20, maybe at some point in the future that might happen, but the vast majority of the employees in that union have far less years. I think that pay plan was probably set up to help out for lack of a better word, the existing employees. Alderman Cookson Okay. Thank you. So just to reiterate, I would be interested in knowing of the 14 or 15 employees that this union represents, how many employees have reached those milestones since it was adopted and then of the 14 or 15 employees what is their range of between zero and 5 years, how long have they been employed in this particular union. Thank you. Budget Review – 10/04/10 Page 9 Chairman Deane Do you do exit interviews? John Seusing We have started them recently yes. Our professional standards folks do that. Chairman Deane When we got accredited, isn’t being accredited wasn’t that part of that process? Don’t we have to have an exit interview team in place when people leave? John Seusing I don’t believe that is a standard, but I do know that we have recently been doing that. Chairman Deane I know that… John Seusing Fortunately we don’t have a lot of employees leaving. Chairman Deane The city does exit interviews with their Human Resources. John Seusing And we are now doing them. Chairman Deane From my discussions with people and going to the police department and seeing the tasks that they perform looking at all of the monitors in that room, that job just seems like a burnout job to me. That is just my uneducated opinion. John Seusing Being a dispatcher is an extremely stressful position. Chairman Deane When you sit there and look at what they are tasked to do and depending on the activity and time of year and… Budget Review – 10/04/10 Page 10 John Seusing When we had lost our dispatchers two that I recall over the last few years, but we had lost quite a few dispatchers prior to that that never really made it through training or if they did get through training they just stayed on for a short period of time. I think the combination was the stress involved in doing that job because it is a very demanding job and it takes a very special type person to do that job, and I think a combination of finding that person and the salaries that they were making at the time, it was very difficult to retain people. Chairman Deane But you have noticed with a downward spiral of the economy that people have been probably staying on longer because jobs are much harder to find these days? John Seusing Well the folks that we have in this union now have been around I think the majority of them have been around since or even before the downturn. Chairman Deane So you are starting exit interviews that is good. It would be nice to collate that data to see, granted it is personal information, but it would be nice for the department to understand why people move on regardless of positions. Alderman Cookson Just a quick follow-up. I guess I would also be interested in knowing, speaking about the job that a dispatcher has to do, I am curious has the technology changed the interface that they use has that changed at all in the course of the last several years? Has it gotten more efficient, has it… John Seusing It has absolutely has. Through our IMC capabilities we are constantly getting updates through them so the technology in dispatch is evolving constantly. Alderman Cookson Right. So that also may have an impact in you mentioned there were several trainees that didn’t or made it through but only stayed a little while. I guess it would be interesting to know how that correlates to where the technology was at that point in time and has the technology like you said gotten more efficient that the trainees and the dispatchers are better able to complete the tasks that are expected of them. John Seusing It certainly has become more efficient in some ways, but I believe the level of multi-tasking and the stress that goes along with it certainly hasn’t gotten any better. It is just a very difficult position. Budget Review – 10/04/10 Page 11 Alderman Cookson Absolutely it is. I know that Alderman Deane mentioned, but at one point in time we were actually invited over to the Nashua Police Department and took a tour of and we actually got to walk into the space that the dispatchers were working in, their work environment, and Alderman Deane was correct just the multitude of screens that are placed in front of these employees it is overwhelming, and I could certainly see where the stress level would be increased because of the tasks that they are expected to do. John Seusing Absolutely and I know when we have a new dispatcher come in the training period is a minimum of 3 months, which is pretty extensive. Alderman Cookson Yeah 190 days. Thank you. Chairman Deane Are there any other questions in this area? Alderman Flynn Speaking to the I think we are talking about the salary grid and what we are into now is the wages. On the grid that we have here there is another position called shift leader. Are there any shift leaders? Stephen Bennett, Esq. There is 1 shift leader. Alderman Flynn I couldn’t find it in the budget book. Maybe there is. There is a shift leader here. That is the one we are talking about? Stephen Bennett, Esq. Could be. I haven’t heard of that position in another union. Alderman Flynn So we have 1 shift leader on which shift third shift? Stephen Bennett, Esq. On 1st shift at this point. She does another essential task, all of the acronyms for it I forget now, but essentially what she does is she has to double check all of the data that the dispatchers collect during the performance of their job. I think it includes things like stolen vehicles, weapons, and so forth. That data has to be checked and then provided to the State. She does an additional task. In fact she is pulled off of her dispatcher duties while she is doing that task because that is I believe 2 days a week. Budget Review – 10/04/10 Page 12 Alderman Flynn So the only positions that are going to be in effect at least for the balance of this contract are these positions on this grid ; probationary dispatcher, shift leader, communication technicians I and II, and probationary communication technicians? Stephen Bennett, Esq. Correct. Alderman Flynn I know in the contract there is a place where it lists essential personnel and it has a lot more positions, but they don’t show up on the grid anyplace. Stephen Bennett, Esq. That may have been something we missed. The last time we went through this process there was a much more extensive grid with a lot of different job descriptions. In fact I think there was communication technicians I, II, and maybe several others. We tried to condense that grid. We may have missed removing those positions. But the positions you mentioned a moment ago are the only ones in the union. Alderman Flynn So in here it mentions for example on the first line it mentions that we could have essential positions include but are not limited to… the first line for example is shift leader, senior shift leader, and shift leader specialist. We don’t expect to have only one of those positions at least during this contract. Stephen Bennett, Esq. We do not. Chairman Deane When you get a call into dispatch is all of that audio kept on file? John Seusing It is. Chairman Deane For how long? Do you know off the top of your head? John Seusing I think recently with our new computer upgrades for a long period of time. I know it gets stored someplace so it might not be readily available, but certainly our I.T. folks are able to retrieve that. I don’t have the exact amount of time, but it is a substantial amount of time. Budget Review – 10/04/10 Page 13 Chairman Deane Thank you. Article 27 – Compensatory Time (Time Coming)? Stephen Bennett, Esq. Prior to this contract this union did not have compensatory time or time coming as it is referred to sometimes. I included this in there. This is one of these grey cost items. I am not sure it is a cost item. It could be depending on how it is used. We have included a clause in the comp time that the use of comp time is subject to the workload and the needs of the department. In other words, a supervisor has the right to deny comp time if it will run into overtime or if there is nobody else available so it is based on the needs of the department. My recollection is that it is not subject to the grievance procedure. Again, if they do not use the comp time they have earned in any year it is automatically converted back to overtime pay, which is required by the labor laws. Chairman Deane It is required by labor law to pay time and a half on straight time for comp time? Stephen Bennett, Esq. Comp time isn’t straight comp time is the time coming, it is overtime, they can use as comp time. Chairman Deane Anybody have any questions on this article? Article 38. Stephen Bennett, Esq. Article 38 is the educational reimbursement. This was the only union without educational reimbursement. The total annual pool would be $1,200 with a $400 cap and it is a first come first serve so only 3 employees during any year could use this benefit. The benefit of $400 is approximately 1/3 to ½ the cost of any undergraduate courses that are available in the area. This also requires the employee to take not only a course which is approved by the administration, but also to pay half if not 2/3 of the cost themselves. Alderman Cookson Thank you. I am curious with that educational benefit; does the police department have a suggested curriculum for the potential employee to look at to say this is a course that would be approved by the Nashua Police Department? John Seusing I don’t believe we have one that we would suggest to them. It certainly would have to be approved. Alderman Cookson Could you foresee a particular type of course whether it be a communication course over at Rivier or would a business management course at Daniel Webster be an appropriate course? How is that determined? Budget Review – 10/04/10 Page 14 John Seusing Well it is approved by the Chief. I do know that there is a list of approved like subject matters not specific courses. If someone is pursuing a degree even if it was a degree in communications, there could be a math course that would be involved that would be a requirement. That math course might not specifically be germane to their position but to that degree that would be. Alderman Cookson So it is not dependent upon the position it is dependent upon the goals of the police department and the education of their employees. John Seusing To some degree I would agree with that yes. Alderman Cookson Thank you. Chairman Deane What licensing would they have if any? John Seusing What licensing? Chairman Deane It states affiliation/licensing. Is the state charging them to be licensed dispatchers or… John Seusing No. Stephen Bennett, Esq. At least not at this time. Chairman Deane Professional affiliations? John Seusing I am not aware of any that they have to belong to. Budget Review – 10/04/10 Page 15 Chairman Deane Anybody else have any questions? Article 39 does anyone have any questions on the date? Alderman Flynn Attorney Bennett when I look at the costing sheet that we have from the city, they must give a copy of this as well to you I imagine just as a sanity check. Stephen Bennett, Esq. We have to have it before we put the resolution in. Alderman Flynn When I go to the second page and it talks about the cost of benefits, you mentioned this several times tonight, consistent with other contracts. The health insurance in this new contract there is no new concessions. The health benefits stay exactly the same in this new contract. I am a little surprised that the increase is so small for the cost in FY11. Do you know why those costs are not consistent with the changes we have seen in other contracts like the library contract? Stephen Bennett, Esq. If you look at the raw numbers it could be due to the fact there are only 14 or 15 employees here. I don’t calculate those. It may well be dependent also upon what plans they take. That is all I can suggest. Alderman Flynn I didn’t know if they shared the breakdown with you of how that works. The total insurance benefits percentage would have nothing to do with the number of people. The total insurance benefits is only going up 5%. I am a little surprised by that number because the library contract went up by 11% I believe. Stephen Bennett, Esq. I can’t explain that to you. Alderman Flynn I didn’t know if they share that with you or not how they got those numbers. Stephen Bennett, Esq. In discussing this with our new CFO, Mike Gilbar had provided prior costing analysis and I believe he might have set up something on how to do that so we left that to the CFO. I would think the increases would be percentage wise roughly the same for each contract for health benefits. Alderman Flynn That is what I was surprised at that they were so markedly different, one was almost 11% and one was 5%. If you don’t have the details I am not going to search them out. I just thought you might have it to share Budget Review – 10/04/10 Page 16 with us. I know they put a lot of time and try to analyze each individual what they are currently asking for for benefits whether it is a family plan or a single plan or whatever. That must be something that factored that in. Alderman Cookson Thank you. Prior to this receiving its first reading on September 15th how long was the negotiation process between the police commissioners, the union, and then the city? Stephen Bennett, Esq. In regard to… Alderman Cookson th Length of time; couple of months, 2 months, 3 months, 6 months? I’m just looking at this expires June 30 . I am just trying to get an expectation… Stephen Bennett, Esq. I would say we started in February. I want to say January, but I don’t think we got that jump on it so I think it was February. Alderman Cookson About 5 month’s worth of work. With this expiring June 30, 2011 we’re going to see some work again very shortly. Stephen Bennett, Esq. We have 15 contracts to be negotiated or 14 by June of next year. We are trying to get a jump on…some have already started. Alderman Cookson And you are going to have this one again in that mix. Stephen Bennett, Esq. I know the people at the other side of the table on this one yes. Alderman Cookson Thank you. Chairman Deane Any further discussion? The motion on the floor is to recommend final passage of R-10-56. MOTION CARRIED Budget Review – 10/04/10 Page 17 R-10-59 Endorser: Alderman-at-Large David W. Deane Alderman Arthur T. Craffey, Jr. Alderman Paul M. Chasse Alderman Diane Sheehan CLARIFYING THE USE OF THE EXPENDABLE TRUST FUND FOR SPORTS TOURNAMENT TRAVEL EXPENSES TO CITY-FUNDED SPORTS TEAMS AND TRANSFERRING $2,000 FROM ACCOUNT 552-91055 “PARKS AND RECREATION DEPARTMENT – TRAVEL, STATE CHAMP TEAMS” INTO THE EXPENDABLE TRUST FUND MOTION BY ALDERMAN DEANE TO RECOMMEND FINAL PASSAGE ON THE QUESTION Chairman Deane What this does is if you look in your budget book under Department 552, which is Park & Recreation, each year there is an appropriation put in that line to help offset some of the cost of travel if in fact an organization, how they deciphered it prior to this legislation I did make a small change there, moves to some other area in New England. This year we had a 14-year-old team that traveled to Springfield, MA. Now the coaches are basically all volunteers, the children pay a $20 registration fee I believe it is. What this does is this helps narrow down some of the costs associated with them having to travel and spend their time as part of representing the state in most cases, they would be state champions, for the tournaments that they are involved in. I did make the change because this fund was tapped into by a representative of an organization and it was a private organization. I am involved with a private organization and we raise our own funds and are responsible for operations, and the city permits us a field to use. If we travel into state tournaments it is up to the organization to cover the cost, the private organization to cover the cost. What this does is this helps offset the cost for some of the children and perhaps some of the coaches that travel with the league. Now that 14-year-old team I think there was 1 child that needed money and I think they might have done a little bit of something for the coaches, but other than that they didn’t really use any of the money. This will all be overseen by the Park Department, by Scott Painter and Tom Duane. People have to turn in receipts to be reimbursed and the city knows who is going where and so on and so forth. I just thought it was a good thing to do for those people that volunteer. They volunteer enough of their time. A lot of them have been doing it for years, and to help them in case they do become a state champion to offset some of these costs I didn’t think was out of the ordinary. I think we should participate in that and support their endeavors. The other thing is I wanted to have this similar to other trust funds. There has to be a revenue source and this is an appropriation in the operating budget, which is raised by tax dollars. I wanted once the budget was approved since it was a trust account to roll over, but that can’t be done. A separate piece of legislation has to be brought in each and every year to do the transfer into this account, which has a ceiling of $10,000. Once it hits that ceiling the balance stays and it will always stay at that amount. That is the reason. Does anyone have any questions about this? Budget Review – 10/04/10 Page 18 Alderman Cookson I guess I would ask do we have a historical perspective of how much is requested from this expendable trust fund over the last several years. Chairman Deane It depends on the amount of state champions we have had and this year we had a 14-year-old team as well as I think the 16/18s, senior Babe Ruth won and they ended up going to Connecticut to represent New Hampshire in the regional tournament that they played down there. I can get that data from Scott Painter. I don’t think they have used a lot of it. Alderman Cookson Okay. I would guess there would be a difference in cost between traveling to Springfield and traveling to Connecticut. Chairman Deane Usually they all drive down and parents bring some of the kids. The parents that went with the 14-year- olds, they all paid for their own rooms. Similar to the program I am involved in, you have some children that just aren’t financially able and the parents aren’t. We have a program that is Friends of Nashua North and people donate $100 and we put a placard up on the wall and that money sits in an account to help the kids that can’t afford the shoes, don’t have the gloves, they don’t pay any fees to play because you want the kids to participate. That covers that cost. I can get that information from Scott Painter or from Tom Duane. This year the money that wasn’t used at year end fell back into the general fund. Alderman Cookson Okay very good. Does this also include you indicated that typically parents will travel down and drive some of the athletes down, but could this also include bus transportation, the hiring of a transportation service? Chairman Deane If they were to do that, but more often than not these teams consist of about 12-13 players so I don’t think they would do that. Alderman Cookson Okay. Very good. Thank you. Alderman Cox And would it be Scott Painter’s position that would trigger a request for more money if he anticipated that this wasn’t going to be sufficient for the …it is a long process to… Chairman Deane What to build it? Budget Review – 10/04/10 Page 19 Alderman Cox To add more money to it. An additional appropriation if we needed to. Chairman Deane I guess they could look at it. They have managed over the last number of years with that money that we put in the budget every year to function because you have to be a state champion, which means you are heading to a regional, which could be in any state in New England. Like I said earlier when I had talked to him one of my main concerns was that we had a senior team and we had a 14-year-old team that both went and there was very little request for reimbursement from anybody. He explained to them that they had that opportunity and the parents were all set. There was a small reimbursement, but it wasn’t a lot of money. When I talked to Nick Caggiano about it he felt as though he is going to set his calendar to trigger the legislation transfer and he felt this would be sufficient for the year. It would be nice to have a ton of state champions coming out of the City of Nashua, but… Alderman Cox That would be preferred. Alderman Pressly My thinking is along the same line is this enough. It seems like a meager amount of money. I am hoping for those champions too. If they return any excess it seems smart in my opinion to give more with the understanding if they don’t need it it will come back in. Chairman Deane What the trust account does, this establishes the trust account, if approved, and it does the transfer as well so what that trust account will do that will be non-lapsing, it will stay in that account and each year when the budget is approved if the monies in this line item when it is submitted by the Mayor, when the budget is approved the money will go over into that trust account and it will build up to no more than $10,000. They will hold that balance in there and they will just work out of that amount. It can’t go over $10,000. Alderman Pressly Thank you. Chairman Deane Are there any other questions? The motion on the floor is to recommend final passage of R-10-59. MOTION CARRIED Budget Review – 10/04/10 Page 20 R-10-60 Endorsers: Mayor Donnalee Lozeau Alderman-at-Large David W. Deane Alderman-at-Large Mark S. Cookson Alderman Richard P. Flynn Alderman Mary Ann Melizzi-Golja Alderman Kathy Vitale PROVIDING FOR A REVIEW AND UPDATE OF THE MERIT PLAN Chairman Deane Before I put a motion on the floor, the Personnel/Administrative Affairs Committee I know is on top of this one. They are going to provide everyone on the board with a copy of the merit plan document and that will include the financials that are in there as well. Alderman Clemons did you want to speak briefly on your plan? Alderman Clemons What I would like to do and we can talk about this after, but is to figure out a day that we can have a joint meeting. Chairman Deane Absolutely Alderman Clemons And hopefully go over this and where that is the only thing on the agenda. Chairman Deane Okay I will talk with you and we will try to find an open date. MOTION BY ALDERMAN DEANE TO TABLE MOTION CARRIED Chairman Deane R-10-62 – I don’t see the prime sponsor here. I didn’t hear from Mr. Craffey. I know there is some stuff going on in his personal life. Is there a sense of urgency associated with this? Do any of the co-sponsors know that? Alderman Sheehan It is an expired agreement that they just need to renew is my understanding. Chairman Deane This was that conservation agreement for what was it $50,000? Budget Review – 10/04/10 Page 21 Alderman Sheehan Yes, for a three year agreement with a company that we are currently using. R-10-62 Endorsers: Alderman Arthur T. Craffey, Jr. Alderman Michael J. Tabacsko Alderman-at-Large Barbara Pressly Alderman Mary Ann Melizzi-Golja Alderman Diane Sheehan Alderman Kathy Vitale APPROVING A THREE YEAR AGREEMENT WITH THE SOCIETY FOR THE PROTECTION OF NEW HAMPSHIRE FORESTS FOR CONSULTING AND RELATED SERVICES TO IDENTIFY AND ACQUIRE PROPERTIES FOR CONSERVATION PURPOSES AND AUTHORIZING THE TRANSFER OF $50,000 FROM ACCOUNT #372-7007 “NASHUA CONSERVATION FUND” INTO ACCOUNT #372-01045 “CONTRACTING SERVICES – PARCELS FOR ACQUISITION” MOTION BY ALDERMAN SHEEHAN TO RECOMMEND FINAL PASSAGE ON THE QUESTION Chairman Deane Does anyone have any questions on this? Alderman Pressly Just a comment that this is a fund that is set up exclusively for this type of thing. Chairman Deane I am well aware of it. A few years ago I looked into that fund. Probably not to your liking, but I looked into it anyway. Alderman Pressly I am very proud of that fund. When I was at the State House I sponsored… Chairman Deane This is one of your bills as a Senator right? Alderman Pressly As a Rep actually. I think at least 95% of the municipalities in the State use this now, and it has been very very successful just about everywhere because it takes the loss of green space and then puts it back into green space. It is no hardship. It doesn’t cause any hardship on any municipality and it is not tax dollars that pays for it. Budget Review – 10/04/10 Page 22 Chairman Deane I noticed the loss of green space this afternoon up at stump pond up Tinker Road. Alderman Pressly What happened? Chairman Deane Pennichuck is in there building roads or something. Are there any questions on this anybody? The motion is to recommend final passage. MOTION CARRIED NEW BUSINESS – ORDINANCES - None Chairman Deane Does anyone have any interest in taking O-10-22 or O-10-23 from the table? Alderman Pressly Thank you. I would be happy to give you sort of an update on where that stands. I don’t think anything is ready for final passage, but if you would like maybe I could speak to it under general discussion. TABLED IN COMMITTEE O-10-22 Endorsers: Mayor Donnalee Lozeau Alderman-at-Large Brian S. McCarthy ELIMINATING THE INCREASE IN THE MAYOR’S FY2011 SALARY O-10-23 Endorser: Alderman-at-Large Barbara Pressly ESTABLISHING AN OMBUDSMAN FOR THE CITY OF NASHUA AND AUTHORIZING THE TRANSFER OF $60,000 FROM ACCOUNT 591-86005 “FY2011 GENERAL CONTINGENCY”INTO ACCOUNT 501-53 “MAYOR’S OFFICE – PROFESSIONAL SERVICES” GENERAL DISCUSSION Alderman Pressly I would just like to comment that I think it has been an interesting process because I think when this started out a lot of people, maybe more than half of you on this board, had never heard of the word Ombudsman. It is not a really well known word and it is not used in a lot of places that we would know about, but what has happened is that some of you have spoken to it and I believe it was Alderman Cookson said after the meeting last time that he had been up at the State House and there was a lot of discussion about this being a concept and a mechanism to provide better service for all municipalities. The reason I would ask that you table it again, I don’t think there is anything ready right now, but I was torn Budget Review – 10/04/10 Page 23 tonight to come here or to go to the school department that is having a hearing on bullying, which has to be one of the most difficult subjects that we are dealing with today, and I couldn’t help but think that an Ombudsman might be a really good concept for bullying because the advantages of an Ombudsman is total independence where they are available to people with complete anonymity. Parents could go, teachers could go, the kids could go and speak to this person that would protect them completely. This might be a concept. If I had not come here I would have gone to the school department and suggested they might want to look at that. I don’t know that this would be the right vehicle to make it come about. I am comfortable keeping it on the table, letting it percolate a little bit and see how people feel about it. Maybe at a later date I can go to the school board and suggest this. I do want to know what they come up with and what the State is coming up with to protect the kids and to protect everybody. It is a vehicle that I think could be useful in that issue. I would be happy that it stays on the table at this time. Thank you. Chairman Deane Nothing worse than a bully. I agree with you 100%. Alderman Pressly And I do happen to believe that they learn it from adults. Chairman Deane It is even worse when adults do it. Alderman Pressly That I know we have had this problem at City Hall. I had to report someone myself quite a few years ago with a bully, and I think they have had it at the school system. It involves a lot of people and it is really complicated and so you want someone who is not in any way connected with the institution because they have connections and other agendas that could conflict. I would appreciate it if you would just keep it there. Chairman Deane It is on the table. Alderman Pressly Thank you. Chairman Deane Does anyone have any general discussion? Alderman Pressly I have been coming to your budget meetings and really enjoying them and learning from them, and I have thought about something since the last meeting and felt I had to come here and speak to it. Budget Review – 10/04/10 Page 24 Chairman Deane I hope it is an improvement. Is it a recommended improvement? Alderman Pressly No it is an opposite point of view that I feel it is important that some Aldermen speak to. It had to do with Alderman Flynn’s position particularly with the school department. You spoke quite eloquently at the last meeting about your believing that the school department should have returned the $500,000, and I have thought about that and I appreciate your point of view, but I think there is a strong opposite point of view that needs to be expressed from some Alderman. That is that if you require any department that does save money, is able to come in under budget, if you require that they return it there is not much of an incentive to really save money and cut corners. I think with the school department in particular it is the biggest project the city has. I have heard some people express the fact that each high school is almost like a separate city, they have so much going on, and it is such a complicated budget. The issues are quite emotional just based on what they are discussing over there tonight. I think it is their right to not return it and I don’t criticize them for keeping it and putting it in a reserve fund. No one spoke that point of view and I wanted to come tonight because I have thought about it a lot. It is an issue do you expect it back? I mean $500,000 in their budget is just nothing. For them to be able to put it in a reserve for another project, maybe the bullying project they are talking about tonight has something that requires funding. I don’t fault them for keeping it and I think we might think about commending them for being able to save some money. I think when they come in here they come in with their best case for what they need. I just wanted to come and say I appreciated your point of view last meeting, but I think there is an opposite point of view and I felt I wanted to express it. Thank you for listening to me. Chairman Deane I appreciate your point of view also Alderman Pressly, but the facts as I understand them is they came in and asked for an additional, above and beyond what they were already given in their operating budget. They didn’t scrimp and save. They came in and said they needed more money… Alderman Pressly And they probably did. Chairman Deane In the end they didn’t. We gave them more than they needed and they came in and asked for more. I can appreciate their efforts in maintaining the educational values within our city with the tax dollars they are given, but when you come in and ask for more money because you are not going to have enough and low and behold you end up having surplus at the end of the year, then I’m of the belief that it should be returned. I don’t think it should be stockpiled. I think the more we look into that CTE fund and I think Mr. Dowd explained it perfectly, that fund was never set up to fund positions and that is what was done with it. Not only were they funded out of that they were funded in the operating budget and Mr. Dowd sat here and said that fund was set up to replace equipment as it aged out of its function, i.e., computers, tools for the shop, whatever continuing education courses they have over there where technology changes, that is what that money was there for. Budget Review – 10/04/10 Page 25 It seems like it has taken on a whole different purpose. Maybe Alderman Melizzi-Golja can, you were there when that account… Alderman Melizzi-Golja Mr. Dowd was correct that was set up because we recognized that changes in technology would need funding. Chairman Deane There was more for capital expenditures on replacement of… Alderman Melizzi-Golja It was really a way to make sure our students were working on the most appropriate equipment to make sure they were marketable. That is what that fund was set up for. Alderman Pressly All of this is done totally in the open. There has been nothing secretive about how they have spent the money. Alderman Melizzi-Golja I didn’t say there was. I am just clarifying that when the fund was set up the purpose was to support the technology and the equipment needs for appropriate training to make sure that training was up to date. To have students in the auto body shop doing things that are no longer appropriate based on how cars are made today would not be making them very marketable. Alderman Pressly May I ask a question of Alderman Melizzi-Golja? Chairman Deane Sure. Alderman Pressly So in your opinion do you feel that they misused the money? Do you feel that you were… Alderman Melizzi-Golja I know what that money was set up for and that was the school board’s decision on how that was used. But it was supposed to be there to make sure that the equipment that was needed in terms of being updated there were plans available, understanding that money probably wouldn’t be able to fund all of those needs, but it would at least provide some source of funding for those needs. Budget Review – 10/04/10 Page 26 Alderman Pressly Just a further comment then, I presume that there is an appropriate time to challenge that and maybe that is the budget time that it comes up next. It is my understanding that it is sort of at their discretion to do as they wish and they chose not to return it. I just feel it is one of those issues that I could both sides of it. I think the important thing is that we know what they are doing and that we have another opportunity to discuss how they use it in the future or the next budget round. Chairman Deane My question has been to the legal department about what went on. How do you take a supplemental appropriation and well beyond year end do a transfer? When they close their books monies that aren’t encumbered are supposed to fall back into the general fund. How do you sit on that money until September and then transfer it? Alderman Pressly Did you get an answer from legal? Chairman Deane No I have not. I also requested of Mr. Donovan and copied Mr. Conrad for copies of the transfer sheets for year end as well as July, August, and September. I did that on I believe it was the 24th of September. No response. Alderman Pressly So your issue is that the special money that was given to them was not used in the manner in which they made the case they needed it. You think there might have been an inappropriate transfer to some other fund that… Chairman Deane I am just wondering how they can sit on funds that were a supplemental appropriation I believe into their 581 operating budget, the year ends, they go through these encumbrances and you can see them, I have them in here and that is another thing I am going to address through some legislation is these encumbrances, I don’t get how some of that works, but the monies at that point in time if there is no encumbrance that money should have dropped back into the general fund when the books are balanced. Alderman Pressly I would be eager to know what they say. Chairman Deane The transfer happened well after. I believe it was on the 4th of September. It was the same meeting where they mentioned the fact that they didn’t budget any money for their portables and they said there had been a commitment from City Hall to not worry about it, we will pay for all of your insurances, use that money and Budget Review – 10/04/10 Page 27 you will only have to come up with $40,000 or $42,000 to make up the difference. How does that happen? That all has to be done legislatively, people can’t be promising people money. I don’t know what is going on with that. I don’t know if somebody is bringing in legislation, but supposedly they don’t have enough…maybe Alderman Cox knows about that. Do you know anything about that? Alderman Cox I think the way you stated it is correct. Chairman Deane So someone has promised them additional money and we will pay their insurance? Alderman Cox From the city side correct. Chairman Deane I will e-mail you the link to that committee meeting, the Finance & Operations Committee meeting. It is just really confusing. This is the beginning of the year and they are already finding all of these problems and doing all of these transfers, people forgot to do this and forgot to do that. That is another issue. Alderman Pressly May I just ask a question of Alderman Cox? Chairman Deane Sure. Alderman Pressly Did I understand you correctly that that is accurate that they have sort of a verbal agreement and it is not recorded or … Alderman Cox It is not that it was not recorded it was in the meeting that Alderman Deane was stating and it was requested of the city because they acknowledged to the city that they neglected to budget for the portables. They had submitted that to the city looking for some direction on how to move forward with that, and that was the solution that was offered. Alderman Pressly And what has happened? Budget Review – 10/04/10 Page 28 Alderman Cox That is the solution that was agreed to so the city will be paying insurance money and the difference has to be made up. I think it was a little more than $40,000, but it has to be made up by the school department within their budget. Chairman Deane I don’t see legally how the city can pay for the school department’s insurances when there is already a line in their operating budget for that. Are they just going to send the bills over here? That has to be done legislatively. The fact that it sounds like we have extra money in our insurance accounts now if we can start absorbing things like that. Alderman Pressly May I ask who suggested that solution? Alderman Cox To be honest with you I think initially it started with Mike Gilbar, a conversation between Mike Gilbar and Dan Donovan. Other than that I wouldn’t want to say who offered that. I am not sure if it was Mike or the Mayor, but I will find out and get back to you on it. Alderman Pressly This is a far more complicated situation than I first thought. I hope we clear up some of these questions because one of the things that is so important between the Board of Education and our board is that we have a certain level of trust and transparency. I think if these issues are still out there we should get some answers to them. Alderman Cox Everything has been done in a public meeting as Alderman Deane stated so there is nothing I don’t want to say back room or anything happening, it was discussed, it was owned up to that they neglected to budget for the portables, and they announced the solution that they had come up with. Nothing is underhanded or not transparent or anything else. I don’t want that misconception to be out there. The error occurred and they admitted that. I am trying to remember exactly how the omission happened, because of something they did differently the year before and it just wasn’t caught. Chairman Deane It wasn’t in the 600 capital line. Alderman Pressly So this issue of the portables and not including it in the budget is that unrelated to not returning the $500,000? Budget Review – 10/04/10 Page 29 Alderman Cox Unrelated. Chairman Deane Another problem. Alderman Pressly So what you have brought up is a separate complaint so to speak. Chairman Deane I will e-mail you the link you can open it up and start reading it. There are all sorts of accolades on how they managed to spend their budget down to next than nothing and they actually had money left over and how it was managed and then two pages later they have this problem and that problem and they are transferring money from here to there because they didn’t budget for this and that. It was kind of disheartening to say the least. Alderman Pressly Maybe the next budget round is the time to bring some of this up and at least hope they don’t make the same mistakes. Chairman Deane I am sure there will be legislation coming in to pay for their insurance bills, there has to be. Alderman Pressly Who would be bringing that in? Chairman Deane Whoever supports…my theory is we gave them a significant increase in their operating budget this year, why not just wait until the end of the year and see how they do? Look at this year and the balance they had left over this year. Alderman Cox That would be me to bring it in if necessary. I don’t feel it is going to be necessary, but if it is that would be me. Alderman Pressly What about this $500,000 couldn’t that be used to cover the portables? Budget Review – 10/04/10 Page 30 Chairman Deane They have already transferred it into their CTE fund. Once it is in there it is kind of hard to take it out because now it has a dedicated purpose. A special revenue fund I believe is what it is. You cannot use that money for anything other than the language that is stated in the special revenue fund itself. That is a state law. Alderman Pressly I am glad I brought this up I have learned a lot from this discussion. Thanks for being patient. Chairman Deane Is there any other discussion? Alderman Flynn I’m not generally a big fan of escrows at the end of the year and I am not a strong proponent of rewarding the managers because they got their budgets in order. I think as the year goes on I am sure the Mayor gives the department managers, superintendents, her cabinet directions on how she wants them to be frugal in their spending and as we get towards the end of the year I would think there would be an incentive, the incentive is to come in under budget. The incentive shouldn’t be I can have more funds escrowed for next year’s spending. Somehow you want to bring those numbers in under budget so you can return that money to the general fund and then be able to use that to offset the tax rate. If we gave you enough money to do all of your needs and I am sure they are doing what needs to be done, and they still are finding opportunities whether it be through negotiation of contracts or deciding not to travel to certain conferences or whatever, in the end that is really what we would expect our managers to do is to manage their funds well and return to us what they didn’t need to have. I don’t think we expect managers to manage their funds well with the intention of having extra money for next year. That is not how I am treated in my job. I have never been treated that way in 40 years looking to have more money next year because I was frugal this particular year. Usually there is an incentive from the top a directive more than an incentive, a directive from the top in the last quarter of the year or whatever I would imagine to be very vigilant in what your spending habits are and allow as much oversight as possible to control what your spending will be before the end of the year, and if you don’t escrow it, it goes back into the general fund and it is more money to offset the tax rate. We could also work harder I suppose at cutting the budget because I don’t think the budget has been as tight as it could have been, but I think we recognize that they have to have some leeway. We have been very very fair I think in giving them a budget, but when we give them their budget that just creates the new floor for next year’s budget as well so that creates some problems I think in terms of the tax rate. I am always interested in minimizing the escrows, expecting department managers to come in under budget, and using those monies that are returned to offset the tax rate in the future year. It shouldn’t be something that is expected if you come in under budget that you would be given some favorable thought towards allowing you to escrow it. It should not be what is expected of the managers. Managers should be expected to manage their department as frugally as they possible can. That is my take on budgeting. Budget Review – 10/04/10 Page 31 Alderman Pressly I appreciate your feelings and your thoughts on that. However, I think this board is probably the only board that really cares about the general fund. That is our primary job. One of the things as a spectator of this committee that interested me was at the end of the year the budgetary year how so many departments came in with zero. I asked about it at the time how amazing that they could do that, and I had the impression that most every department wanted to completely utilize all of the money that was given to them and to come in with a zero balance. Although in a perfect world people would do what you suggest, I didn’t see that to be the case in my observation just as a spectator for this committee. I agree with you and I am sure you as a financial person would do that, but I think you have to consider human nature. Again, I just feel that the school department with the enormousness of what they do that their percentage of being over has to be just miniscule. Alderman Flynn I have on my wall the first piece of legislation that I ever put through and it is a piece of legislation that I don’t think you are going to see again during your term, I haven’t seen it since my first term. It is a piece of legislation that takes money from the department budget and moved it into general contingency. We moved money from the operating budget. At that time it was an attempt to try to get more of a hiring freeze. I was trying to take money away from departments so that they would have to work harder at justifying moving those funds back that those funds weren’t available any longer once they had positions that had opened up. Legislation to move money out of a department budget into contingency I don’t think you have seen one. We just don’t do it here. We are always moving money from contingency into a new need. My first 4 or 5 pieces of legislation were just the opposite. I don’t think you are going to see that again. I have it hanging on my wall kind of as a…I don’t know if it is my first piece of legislation or the only one you are going to see in this decade. Alderman Pressly Did they pass? Alderman Flynn It passed. I did about 6 of them I think. Alderman Pressly Congratulations. Alderman Flynn My point is that money would have been available to spend to either hire people or the Mayor had the authorization to take that money from payroll and move it below the line into other operating expenses. I decided that I didn’t want to go through that legislation year after year. I only did that that one year, and the reason I didn’t do it in subsequent years was I couldn’t do anything about the school department anyhow so all of the legislation was picking on everybody but the biggest department so I didn’t do that any longer. I still think that as a general rule because of conditions, because there is a turnover in personnel, that really Budget Review – 10/04/10 Page 32 isn’t something that they did to create unused appropriations, when someone leaves and the position doesn’t get filled for 10 weeks or whatever that might be. There are a lot of circumstances that money should really come back into the general fund. I think the managers, I say it myself and I say it in genuine terms that I really think we have strong department managers… Alderman Pressly I think so too. Alderman Flynn …but if we are going to keep saying that about them then we should expect that they can get their budgets to come in under the fiscal allotment that we have given them. I don’t think we have to offer them that carrot of getting some escrow money for coming in under budget. I don’t think we have to offer that. There have been a lot of good reasons why we have afforded it and we have passed a lot of escrow legislation. I think it has come down considerably since my first year here five years ago. Some things you can’t help. Some things are street paving and sidewalks and things like that, which just couldn’t get done in the previous year. If you look at the final numbers, I was saying that to the Mayor, I think you were at the last meeting, and I was trying to make a point that many of the departments that ended up with a surplus were departments that really had no department manager so to speak, they were general contingency, they were fire hydrants, they were street lighting, welfare. I think welfare we go by the rules and we do what is supposed to be done. It isn’t like there were any real sacrifices made by the fire hydrant department. Overall there is not an awful lot of money that gets returned at the end of the year and whatever we can do to maximize that return and apply it to the tax rate that will almost always get my support. Alderman Pressly Thank you. Maybe your next creative legislation will be to create an incentive of some sort, a reward for departments that do that. I have no idea what it would be, but to at least let it be known that it is appreciated and maybe something to the affect that they will not ever be penalized in the future for asking for money. Chairman Deane I thought that happened on Fridays. Alderman Flynn It is part of their job that is what he meant. Alderman Pressly What happens on Fridays? Budget Review – 10/04/10 Page 33 Chairman Deane That already happens the incentive is on Friday that is when everybody gets paid right. Thursday. Is there any other discussion? ADJOURNMENT MOTION BY ALDERMAN COX TO ADJOURN MOTION CARRIED The meeting was declared closed at 8:26 p.m. Alderman Richard P. Flynn Committee Clerk