Personnel/Administrative Affairs Committee

PERSONNEL/ADMINISTRATIVE AFFAIRS COMMITTEE OCTOBER 1, 2012 A meeting of the Personnel/Administrative Affairs Committee was held on Monday, October 1, 2012, at 7:02 p.m. in the Aldermanic Chamber. Chairman Paul M. Chasse, Jr. presided. Members of the Committee present: Alderman Arthur T. Craffey, Jr., Vice Chair Alderman Kathy Vitale Members not in Attendance: Alderman June M. Caron Alderman Diane Sheehan Also in Attendance: Mayor Donnalee Lozeau Alderman-at-Large Barbara Pressly Alderman-at-Large James Donchess Paul R. Bergeron, City Clerk PUBLIC COMMENT - None INTERVIEWS Mine Falls Park Advisory Committee Carol Rust (New Appointment) For a Term to Expire: September 1, 2015 Mayor Lozeau Before you this evening, we have two nominees as you know. The first person I would like to introduce you to is Carol Rust. Carol is interested in serving on the Mine Falls Advisory Committee. Carol is an avid kayaker and has been out a lot in the Mill Pond and areas through the park and came across Greg Andruskevich of course, is a good recruiter for different things and found out her interests are that she was cleaning up and taking things out on her own and became very interested in getting her to serve on the Committee. Carol has been going to committee meetings, she has been going to trail days, she has been doing things like that, making sure that she is able to make the commitment and has demonstrated to me that not only is she interested, but she is willing to make that commitment. She has lived in the community for a very long time. I think she was a little taken aback that in order to be on the Mine Falls Advisory Committee you had to come in and meet with the Mayor. In spite of that she was still willing to come in and meet the committee and interested in serving. I appreciate your consideration of her this evening. Carol Rust Well, Greg found me in the park kayaking. It was actually my sixty-fourth birthday. I was spending my sixty- fourth birthday on March 19th, a very nice, warm day cleaning up some of the litter in the park and also cleaning my way through the winter debris, the blow down. I even moved some small logs and little trees that get in your way to kind of make the way for other kayakers. Its not only me, my husband and I walk our dog in the park and it really is kind of sad when you see that not everybody really takes as good a care and is respectful of keeping it clean, but I would like to be a part of that. I know the guys on the Committee now and I’m starting to learn their names. I know they work very, very hard and I think I can help them out. Personnel – 10/01/12 Page 2 Chairman Chasse Any questions? Alderman Vitale No question, but just a comment. It’s very appreciated when you see people stop and do things and I look at it as you are going to be on the committee as by example. You are giving a really good example to others about just how doing things around the city and being part of it, it’s a really good thing and very much appreciated. Chairman Chasse Mayor Lozeau how many people are on this committee now? Mayor Lozeau Mine Falls Advisory Committee has about 13 members. Chairman Chasse Thirteen, that’s all. Well, seeing you are attending the meetings I guess you might as well join the committee. Anybody else? Alderman Pressly I attended one of their meetings one time and it’s a wonderful group of people. I consider Mine Falls part of one of our real community treasures. It’s under appreciated and it’s just wonderful that you have offered to assist in this and we will look forward to hearing from you. You might have some really good suggestions as things we can do to stimulate the appropriate use of it, particularly with clean up and managing some of the vegetation in the area particularly along the water areas. Thank you. Chairman Chasse We will take your nomination in a couple of minutes. Zoning Board of Adjustment Rob Shaw (Reappointment) For a Term to Expire: September 11, 2015 Mayor Lozeau Thank you. The second individual here with me tonight is not a stranger to, I think, anybody on the Board. I think many of you know Mr. Rob Shaw. He served on the zoning board now for about six-and-a-half years, former alderman, very engaged in the city. Now, Mr. Shaw over the years has had a busy travel schedule and so he is not at every meeting as much as he would like to be and is willing to be, but I find that his attendance is usually over 75%, as much as I look for 100% I think 75% is a reasonable attendance record when you are somebody in the community that works full time and tries to juggle everything there is to juggle. What’s important is, his schedule has never impacted the ability of the committee to meet and take action. Now that we are up to six members on the committee, well five members on the committee and an alternate it certainly makes it a little bit easier. As you know, I am still always looking for members willing to serve on the Zoning Committee. I think the experience that Mr. Shaw brings to the table is important. He has a very nice way to Personnel – 10/01/12 Page 3 talk to the public and conduct meetings. He serves as Chairman right now of the Zoning Board and I think that he acts in a very professional way. I have found when I take a review of minutes from time-to-time, I don’t do it that often, but I find he is able to be objective and I think that’s very important. So, for your consideration tonight the reappointment of Mr. Shaw. Chairman Chasse Mr. Shaw, would you like to say something? Rob Shaw I don’t really feel like I have much need to say anything, but I welcome any questions and I do enjoy serving on the Zoning Board and I have found it pretty rewarding. I was a little bit concerned when I first was asked to serve almost seven years ago. It is a committee sometimes that we do get fairly controversial cases. What I found is, actually in practice it is just a matter of acting fairly and following the ordinances before us and the proper procedure and I think we usually come to good decisions. I don’t always like the decisions we render. Sometimes I even feel I have to vote for things that I don’t personally support or vice versa, but from a matter of acting on either what we believe are the spirit and intent of the ordinances and the RSA’s and the specific situations of the cases, I think we do a pretty good job of rendering fair and right decisions in our Board. I look forward to serving more and I think it is a good opportunity and I actually do hope others from the public do consider joining the Zoning Board and contact the Mayor if they are interested. It is actually a pretty interesting committee. Alderman Vitale Having served with Mr. Shaw both when he was an Alderman on the Board and on the Zoning Board, you wouldn’t even know it was brought up about (112732)attendance because you are extremely thorough and I agree with your self-assessment that it is just a matter of being fair. I’ve enjoyed working with you each and every time. It makes working together very easy. You do all your homework and it’s a benefit to the city to have you on the Zoning Board. Alderman Pressly Thank you. I have a question. I have often felt that the Zoning Board is a bit of a barometer as to the economic development of the city and I’m sure you have seen trends where you are on overload with activity and then it diminishes, its back and forth. Do you have any comment about that? Is there anything happening in the last year as far as trends that you see. Is it mostly people trying to expand their existing property, or is it new projects? Can you tell us a little bit about what your reaction is to what’s going on in the zoning? Rob Shaw I think it actually seems to be a pretty good mix of things. You’re right, I think we do see it sometimes as a barometer of activity in the city. Certainly back in, I think it was 08/09 when a lot of things were especially hit hard, I think we saw our caseload go down somewhat. But I think we still see a mix of new cases, new construction where there may be a special need. We do see a fair amount of people trying to do the very simple and basic things where maybe they just need to encroach into what of the setbacks. I think there is a fairly good mix of what we do see. Its hard to fully categorize it I guess because we do see such a range of cases. Personnel – 10/01/12 Page 4 Mayor Lozeau Mr. Chairman, before I step away, could I just ask you if there is an opportunity to take up O-12-22 ahead of time. Mr. Bergeron is here this evening to speak about that. I am not able to stay, but I would appreciate if you could consider that. COMMUNICATIONS - None APPLICATION TO LICENSE HAWKER'S, PEDDLER'S, ITINERANT VENDOR'S LICENSE - None APPOINTMENTS BY THE MAYOR MOTION BY ALDERMAN CRAFFEY TO RECOMMEND THE CONFIRMATION OF THE FOLLOWING APPOINTMENTS BY THE MAYOR: TO THE MINE FALLS PARK ADVISORY COMMITTEE, CAROL RUST, 6 LANGHOLM DRIVE, NASHUA, FOR A TERM TO EXPIRE: SEPTEMBER 1, 2015; AND, TO THE ZONING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT: THE REAPPOINTMENT OF ROB SHAW, 14 SWEET WILLIAM CIRCLE, NASHUA, FOR A TERM TO EXPIRE: SEPTEMBER 11, 2015 MOTION CARRIED MOTION BY ALDERMAN CRAFFEY TO GO OUT OF ORDER TO TAKE O-12-22 FROM THE TABLE MOTION CARRIED TABLED IN COMMITTEE MOTION BY ALDERMAN CRAFFEY TO TAKE FROM THE TABLE O-12-22 MOTION CARRIED O-12-22 Endorser: Mayor Donnalee Lozeau Alderman-at-Large David W. Deane AMENDMENTS TO THE PURCHASING ORDINANCES TO ALLOW SALE OF SURPLUS STOCK BY ONLINE AUCTION • Tabled 8/20/12 MOTION BY ALDERMAN CRAFFEY TO RECOMMEND FINAL PASSAGE ON THE QUESTION Paul Bergeron I know it’s kind of unusual for the City Clerk to be here talking about some of the portions of the ordinance that deal with procurement and surplus stock, but the way this came about is I attended the New England City and Town Clerk’s Association meeting last fall and there was a vendor there called GovDeals which I’ve distributed a little information about that specializes in selling government surplus on line similar to what E-Bay might do. I brought it up to the Mayor’s cabinet in the early part of the calendar year and there was some discussion about it and a number of the department heads had some interest in looking into the possibility of disposing of surplus stock by this means. Our Emergency Management Director also said that when he worked with the Delaware Fire Department they used this company and found it to be very helpful. Now GovDeals is not the only company out there. There are other companies and this legislation is not intended to site this company only as a possible vehicle to get rid of surplus stock, there are other ones like PoliceAuctions.com, Municibid, Property Room, Government Liquidation. I think ultimately the Purchasing Manager and the Chief Financial Personnel – 10/01/12 Page 5 Officer would want to put their heads together and find out which is the easiest to use if they decide to go this route in terms of having the buyers pick up the merchandise, receiving payment, handling payment on behalf of the city and so on. The contracts and agreements are all somewhat different in small parts between the companies. With that said, the ordinance itself looks to accomplish two things; under the very old and current system we have to get rid of surplus stock we would have to publish a notice in the newspaper and receive sealed bids for that surplus stock. This ordinance says, well instead of publishing it in the newspaper the city could choose to post information about it on the City website and as well post information on a bulletin board or some second means whereby the public can learn of the availability of surplus stock. Then it provides language so that the purchasing manager can dispose of surplus stock either by sealed bid, which is the current system or using an online auction. That is essentially what we are trying to do here. The Mayor did ask me to do this. I wrote the ordinance because Legal was a little backed up at the time and so I could probably answer questions about the text of the ordinance as well, if you have any questions. Alderman Pressly Thank you. One of the sponsors explained to me that in general terms it is sort of a way of doing electronically what we have been doing individually as far as recycling of goods and equipment that we no longer need or do not want. I’m sort of wondering, what happens, does this mean we will do electronically with the lost and found and the things that once a year or once every few years we have a sale out in the back parking lot. Will you still be having things like that or will this eliminate any type of individual selling of abandon or excess things that show up. Paul Bergeron I think in terms of the bicycle sales that would be up to the Police Department because that is something that they need to manage. I think the City would probably realize better revenues from an online sale than they do at some of those auctions where the bikes are only getting $5 or $10 each for the sale the bikes because you are reaching out to a larger potential audience. Alderman Pressly Just a further question. Is this going to be up to each department that has these items to figure out the best way to dispose of whatever they are trying to dispose of. Paul Bergeron I think its going to take a few months to get this up and running. There are always going to be some departments that might feel they can get better returns by an on-site auction and if that is the case, then they certainly would have the right to pursue that. I think the City wants to have all options available so it can choose the route that will return as much revenue to the City as possible, whichever way works better is the way to go. Alderman Craffey Thank you. I am a big proponent of this. I like this idea. I do. Can you just explain a little bit more about the major purchases greater than $10,000, how that would work. Personnel – 10/01/12 Page 6 Paul Bergeron That’s current language now anyway. The current language essentially puts different procedures in place for larger items. I don’t know the history behind that to tell you the truth. The only thing I did was make the changes to where notice is published and institute the process of online bidding. I will say that its not unusual. You can check out a number of these sites and you will find fire trucks, back loaders, hose, former police cruisers taken out of service. There are some large items that show up on these sites. Old computer equipment is just bubble wrapped and put on pallets and sold as junk. There a buyers that pick up that stuff for the spare parts. Alderman Craffey I actually know some people that do that and put them all together and sell them at yard sales. Its amazing what they. Thank you. Alderman Vitale I like the changes adjusted for the ordinance. The other thing that I wondered is, this is allowing us to sell. How is the City doing on the purchasing side? I know sometimes we acquire what might be considered somebody else’s surplus. Are we buying things online like we are proposing to do the selling online? Paul Bergeron Well, I know I did once. There was a tax book that was up for sale on E-Bay. It was public property and I bid on it and eventually we ended up buying it back from the person who brought it. It would have been too costly to get involved in a criminal procedure trying to prosecute the person who had ownership of a public record. But, I’m not aware that other departments are out there purchasing supplies or materials via the online auctions. Certainly its an option for someone, if they want to. There may be things that fire departments or police departments in other communities are disposing of that the city can make some use of. Chairman Chasse The motion on the floor is to recommend final passage of 0-12-22. MOTION CARRIED MOTION BY ALDERMAN CRAFFEY TO RETURN TO REGULAR ORDER OF BUSINESS MOTION CARRIED UNFINISHED BUSINESS – None Personnel – 10/01/12 Page 7 NEW BUSINESS – RESOLUTIONS R-12-44 Endorsers: Alderman-at-Large Jim Donchess Alderman-at-Large David W. Deane Alderman Arthur T. Craffey, Jr. Alderman-at-Large Mark S. Cookson Alderman-at-Large Barbara Pressly Alderman Diane Sheehan Alderman-at-Large Lori Wilshire Alderman Richard A. Dowd Alderman Daniel T. Moriarty ESTABLISHING A COMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE AN EXPANSION OF THE CITY OF NASHUA’S RECYCLING PROGRAM • Also assigned to the Board of Public Works; Tabled 7/12/12 MOTION BY ALDERMAN VITALE TO RECOMMEND FINAL PASSAGE OF R-12-44 ON THE QUESTION Alderman Donchess Thank you. There is one change in the resolution that people have suggested that I think would improve it, which is that the Board of Public Works has expressed through, I forget which Commissioner, the desire and the interest to be one of the members of the Committee. So, it seems to me that either the number of alderman could be reduced to two, with one member of the Board of Public Works to have a five member committee, or a member of the Board of Public Works could be added to make it a six member committee. I think putting a member of the Board of Public Works the person to be designated by that Board would help it to improve the study that would be undertaken. Chairman Chasse Are you putting that in the form of a motion? Alderman Donchess Yes I am. I am not on the committee Chairman Chasse You can put in a motion. I think we changed that a while back. Alderman Donchess Then, I would suggest and move that following the words: “to be appointed by the President of the Board” referring to the Alderman, that the words be added: “one member of the board of Public Works to be designated by the Board of Public Works, and that the word “five” in resolved paragraph be changed to the word “six”. Personnel – 10/01/12 Page 8 MOTION BY ALDERMAN DONCHESS TO AMEND BY ADDING AFTER THE WORDS: “TO BE APPOINTED BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD” THE WORDS: “ONE MEMBER OF THE BOARD OF PUBLIC WORKS TO BE DESIGNATED BY THE BOARD OF PUBLIC WORKS” AND THAT THE WORD “FIVE” IN THE RESOLVED PARAGRAPH BE CHANGED TO THE WORD “SIX” MOTION CARRIED Alderman Pressly One of the reasons that I came here tonight was because of this. I want to just express my opinion. I live in a building where this would really work and I do think its an exciting thing that could be done. I don’t think the city should do it, but I think a private industry. It’s a perfect new type of company for someone to put together. Living at Clarke Tower, we have a green room, but its really difficult to get your recycling items to it and the way the hallways are set up there is a place where everyone could put it right outside their door. I think it could be done. I uses the green room but its not very crowded there. I think it would really generate much more. It would diminish the amount of garbage at the landfill and it would increase our recycling so I think it’s a great project to work on and come up with some good ideas. Alderman Donchess Just briefly, I received comments from condominium residents before I proposed this and since all of whom have said they would appreciate it if the city were to look at ways to make it easier for them to participate in recycling because they think if we did take that kind of step there would be a lot more recycling coming out of the condominium. That’s the input I’ve received. Chairman Chasse I have some comments. I think it’s a great idea. I think that its only to form a committee to do the homework right now. My question is, we know we can’t send city trucks out on private property to pick up recycled stuff. We can’t use the city trucks. I believe its illegal. The residents might be all for it, but we can’t force Clock Tower to join the program. These are things that you are going to have to look into. I was told you could not use the city trucks because its going on private property. Maybe there is a way around, I don’t know. That is what the Committee will have to decide. I may want to have the answers on that when you bring this to the full board. Alderman Donchess Mr. Chairman those are good thoughts. I think in terms of the voluntary nature, as everybody knows, the curbside recycling is totally voluntarily. There is no mandatory requirement. I would assume that we would continue with that philosophy so I think you make a good point. It is my intention to try to look into these issues and I wouldn’t envision trying to require anyone to do recycling. It is simply to make it easier for them to do so. Chairman Chasse I think it’s a noble idea and it would be nice if we could every condominium unit or the places out there to all do it. I believe right now they are not filling up in our landfill anyway. I would say that’s privacy. They are probably bringing all their stuff to Rochester, if I’m not mistaken. I don’t think Clock Tower or any of those places are using our landfill. I think they go to Rochester with the trash. Regardless of where, Rochester or Nashua recycling is still good. You have your homework cut out for you and good luck. Alderman Donchess Personnel – 10/01/12 Page 9 Thank you Mr. Chairman. Alderman Craffey I just want to weigh in also that I do agree with you Alderman Chasse that there is a little bit of homework and this is just to establish the committee, am I right? Alderman Donchess That’s correct. Alderman Craffey I think that’s a great idea. I am a big believer in recycling. It took me a year from my daughter and lot of arm twisting for her to get me to believe in it. Trash was trash when I grew up. But now we saved the landfill. Definitely believe in recycling. I think it’s a very good idea. You do have your homework cut. I do think that there is some way that maybe we can work something out with the condominiums and the big large apartment buildings that maybe they bring it to a spot where we can pick it up, who knows, but you will have your homework cut out. I will be glad to help serve on the committee if you get appointed and help you figure that out. Alderman Pressly Thank you. I would just like to comment, I think the timing of this is really good because we have projects like the cotton mill that is just starting. If we were to have a plan of a pick-up that could be incorporated into the construction and the design of the new , what do they have, over 100 units going into that one building, so I think the timing is really good to be studying this now so that any of the new projects could incorporate it right into the design. Chairman Chasse Motion on the floor is to recommend final passage of R-12-44 as amended. MOTION CARRIED NEW BUSINESS – ORDINANCES O-12-23 Endorsers: Alderman Paul M. Chasse, Jr. Alderman Arthur T. Craffey, Jr. Alderman June M. Caron ADDING PROVISIONS FOR HEARINGS AND FINES TO THE BOARD OF ALDERMEN’S CODE OF CONDUCT MOTION BY ALDERMAN CRAFFEY TO RECOMMEND FINAL PASSAGE OF 0-12-23 ON THE QUESTION Personnel – 10/01/12 Page 10 Chairman Chasse I received what we had in our packet and I think its perfect. I don’t think it needs any amending, I’m happy with it. I don’t know where this is going to go when it gets to the full Board, but it’s a start. What else can I say. Alderman Craffey I just want to echo my opinion and echo your words also. This is something that is probably long overdue. This should have been done a while ago. I like it just the way it is and I hope the full Board passes it just as is. Chairman Chasse I will make one other comment. We never should have got to this point. Alderman Craffey I agree. Alderman Pressly I find this really, really interesting. I’ve served on so many governing boards in municipalities, of churches, of different groups of people, nonprofits and the hardest thing in the world is to police themselves. Its really difficult to have to reprimand or chastise one of the members because of their behavior. I certainly am open to new ideas. I do want to comment and be on the record, I was very shocked by the editorial in the Nashua Telegraph today. In fact, I’ve even tried calling. The editor that I know is not in town right now. But, to connect discipline or failure of discipline of our own behavior with the Main Street Program is just mind boggling to me. I don’t see any connection there whatsoever. I do want to bring up one thing that has interested me that seems to have developed recently. I think there are a certain set of rules and expectations for the Board of Alderman and the way they treat each other. I think just naturally and appropriately there is sometimes tension, there’s disagreement, there is passion and sometimes those passions are expressed. I think the rules that I’ve always understood is that you can discuss or criticize something that a member has said or done, but you are never to go after their character or to assign them a motive and I think that is where the line has been crossed. What has happened fairly recently, which I find interesting, is that some of our members and I happened to witness one incident so I know it is true, some of our members have started yelling and screaming at private citizens who have come to our meetings to speak. That I find is a problem of a bit of a different nature. I personally feel that one of our jobs is to invite the public, hopefully the public will and will speak and say what they think about something and they should not be put down or chastised or embarrassed in any way, either in the chamber or out in the parking lot or in any other venue for their statements. I don’t know how we are going to deal with that. I don’t know if you have given any thought to that Mr. Chairman, but to me there is a distinction between the way we interact. We can fight and disagree and have some tension a little bit of discourse and different opinions here in the chamber, but when you start attacking the public who comes to speak, to me that’s different. I would like to know what the Committee thinks of that. Personnel – 10/01/12 Page 11 Chairman Chasse I think we should let that one play out. The resident asked for an apology and we will see what the Alderman who was involved, what happens there. I think that personally should fall under the President of the Board. That’s my opinion. Let this one play out and see what happens. Alderman Pressly It has been my understanding also, that if a member of the chamber feels they have been slighted or insulted and they speak up and if the other party apologizes that ends it. But it is when they refuse to apologize and t hey stand by their insult that is where the issue comes in. I’m hoping when this comes up for a vote that the members talk about this. We need to talk about the way we treat each other and make sure that we are allowed to disagree, but to have different opinions and to speak them with force and passion and be able to walk away and hold the door for each other with courtesy. I hope we can talk about this. I think its important for any governing board to do that. Chairman Chasse It would be nice to talk about. There really is nothing to talk about as far as I’m concerned. Its pretty cut and dry. Its right down there in black and white, which means that if an alderman is attacking another alderman it doesn’t have to be that particular alderman, I can go to the Board President and say, I would like to see Alderman Craffey at our meeting and get the minutes from that meeting and then this committee will decide that incident. I’m not trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill here, I’m just trying to see if we can agree to disagree professionally. That’s what the word is, professionally. I’ve said it before, its an embarrassment when you go out in public and people say, I saw your meeting, oh boy the infrastructure committee really went at it. That hurts because they are not turning in to watch the meeting, they’re turning in to watch the Looney Tunes. They just don’t get it. We are grown ups here, most of us are in a professional field and if you did this at work, you would get written warnings, verbal warnings and you probably be terminated. My company doesn’t allow me to raise my voice to an individual. That’s the way I look at it. Alderman Craffey I agree with you Alderman Chasse, I do. I agree with a lot of what you said Alderman Pressly. I work with the public a lot and I do a lot of research and if I ever spoke to my colleagues or public like that, I would be handed my walking papers. I go by the golden rule. I believe you stated in an earlier meeting Alderman Chasse, to treat others like I would want to be treated and that’s how I expect to be treated in the Chamber. I agree to disagree and I agree that’s how we should be. We should be allowed to state our opinion and be professional about it. To agree to disagree in t his horseshoe is what its about. Debate is what its about. To come to a common cause, to a common agreement to benefit the city of Nashua and the citizens of Nashua and the taxpayers. Alderman Vitale Yes, sometimes I wonder how things do get to the point that they do. I think we all at times recognize the moment that you start saying, oh dear, this could have been worded different and it probably would not hurt for maybe for new alderman, maybe just for old alderman just to have a conversation Personnel – 10/01/12 Page 12 like, we are allowed as the Board that when we hear that line crossed to speak up at that moment just to change the way the conversation is going. Each of us have that ability to stop the conversation at that point and redirect it in a positive manner. It doesn’t hurt each of us to remember that any time you know you are on different sides of the fence and there is that little bit of tension, you talk about the I, I believe this, I think this, this is my opinion versus you don’t do this or anything else. If you keep everything in the I category and what you think and you try point out the positive things that you are trying to bring out in a conversation, you probably won’t be saying so much of the you and bringing the hackles up on somebody else and the rest of the Board at the same time. I think that is a little bit up to each of us to remind our colleagues if we see that tension arise to say, hey step back and find a different way to do things. It doesn’t have to be out in the open. If you talk to somebody in the hallway and you know that is a sorry point, find a better way to get your point across. Really what we’re doing if we disagree about something is trying to convince somebody else to think about the way we are seeing something and whether it be a vote, change or vote or whatever find the best way to convince them to see your way. You’re not going to convince anybody if your using a way that’s attacking. You’re not going to convince them that way. I agree we need to do something. It’s very good the way its brought forward and it will be interesting to see the conversation of the whole Board when we get there. Alderman Pressly Thank you. Having plowed through the editorial today, I think its important to understand how this came about and correct me if I’m wrong Mr. Chairman. I was at the meeting when you first brought this up. If I understood you correctly the President of the Board of Alderman asked you to explore this idea and you were kind enough to take it and feeling it was the appropriate committee and I think that was the beginning point of it. I just want to make sure, is that the correct sequence of how this came about? Chairman Chasse Not quite. But I was talking to the President of the Board and we were discussing an incident that happened and I had mentioned that we have a code of ethics and its not posted anymore, but it used to be posted a while back and it doesn’t seem like people are doing it. At the same time, Attorney Bennett happened to be there and I had come up with a brainstorm. What if we put a monetary value on it. He said, its not illegal and I said well, all right. So that’s when I told the president of the Board I think we ought to take the code of ethics and send it back down to personnel and see what we can do with it. I did that. Unfortunately, I had to bring it down in the form of an ordinance so that’s why the time lapse. It was not the President who gave it to me, just thrown out in conversation. Alderman Pressly I’d like to thank you for taking that on, it was quite a challenge. I’ve been thinking about the two sets of rules that most groups work by or Masons and Roberts. I think the concept primarily is that the presiding officer is in charge of decorum and I think we need to remind our committee chairs and the president of the Board that the gavel is there to call people out of order, if they believe that they are out of order. I think it is always better to deal with the issue right on the spot then to let it get out of hand and people do hesitate to do that. In calling someone out of order they then can have a chance to challenge it or change the direction of their conversation. Or, also, the full Board, as Alderman Personnel – 10/01/12 Page 13 Vitale said it is up to each of us. If anyone in the Committee or in the full Board thinks that line has been crossed they can bring up a point of order and challenge the speaker. But I think by all parliamentary procedures that I know of, and there may be many more, it is the presiding officer’s job to keep order and not allow anyone to cross the line and that is why we have gavels. When we debate this and talk about this we might bring it up. That’s part of leadership is to help the members police themselves. Chairman Chasse Unfortunately, its one of the Chairmen who is on the carpet so it makes it difficult. Alderman Pressly Well it does and that is why I appreciate you going to this effort to do this. Unfortunately, I think we all know there are some of us who have hotter tempers than others. Chairman Chasse I must be getting old because when I was younger I had a heck of a temper. I might as well pay the $100 because I’m going to get 10 more before my term is up. The motion on the floor is to recommend final passage of O-12-23. MOTION CARRIED GENERAL DISCUSSION Alderman Pressly I would just like to reiterate, I am really shocked at the editorial in the paper and I will do what I will do in relationship with the newspaper. I don’t know if I’ll write something or call people. I for one really rely on the press. We expect them to see things that are going on that maybe don’t meet the standards of good government and I expect them to sort of see through some of this and to make the connection of all these things being connected to Main Street just boggles my mind. I will deal with that and maybe other people want to comment, but I thought the editorial today was really off the mark and very disappointing. I really respect our newspaper, rely on them and was extremely disappointed. Chairman Chasse Alderman Pressly, that is your opinion. I figured we gave them the money to do the work and I don’t care how wet, bricks, sand, clay, get it done so that people don’t’ fall and get hurt and then to be there and micromanage them, I’m not into construction. I am in here to give them the money to do the work. The work is getting done, I’m staying out of it. Personnel – 10/01/12 Page 14 Alderman Pressly Thank you. I didn’t expect that we would go into that discussion, but I will join you. One of the reasons I ran for office was to get the Main Street fixed. I have been asking for two years, what about Main Street. I am very concerned with the process. I think its wrong to have the same people that do the work manage the workers. We don’t have the check and balance. By eliminating the Board of Alderman on the decision I think is not good government. My concern from the very beginning was the change of the atmosphere downtown and the size of the design and I expressed that at the very first time. I have been one of the advocates for years actually, to get the downtown sidewalks fixed. So its not a matter of fixing the sidewalks, it’s a matter of how do we make the decisions as to the atmosphere, the tone and I think the Board of Alderman is the appropriate Board. I don’t think it should be the decision of the Mayor because she is the Chairman of the Board of Public Works. They only have four citizen members and the Mayor and the Mayor can override anything that they do and she has done that. So we don’t have a governing body. I’ve even thought that we should sponsor legislation to increase the size of the Board of Public Works so that they become more like the Board of Aldermen because the decisions that they are making, really requiring a larger board than what they have. Now that seems sort of foolish for me to do. My problem is the process and to make sure that the same people are not in charge of the people who do the work, who make the decision, who create the design and that we go through the appropriate channels to make sure that there are multiple opinions and that good government is maintained. Me, personally, I have been harping on getting those sidewalks fixed since the day I was elected. So that is not where I’m coming from, I am still very concerned about the design, and its staying power. That’s all I need to say tonight. Thank you. Alderman Craffey While I do share my colleagues passion for getting the sidewalks done, I also share your opinion that we are not micro managers. We are past the budget. The time for the debate of the cost of everything was at that time. I don’t care, cement, brick, get it done. These people in the Department of the Public Works, they have the specialists, they have design engineers, they have civil engineers, they do very good work. I have been on the site, I have seen the work they do. They are very dedicated people. Some construction companies have the designers and actually do the same work. They design and do the same work. What’s the difference if we went out and hired a firm to do design and the work the same thing is going on if we can do it in-house for cheaper. The Mayor said when she went out to do the design for the bridge, she found it was cheaper to do it in-house. Micro managing and demanding all these accounts, that we account for every single man hour on that bridge is over micro managing and that is not the purpose of this Board. The purpose of this Board is to watch the tax dollars and make sure the tax money is spent correctly. If we’re going to be micro managers all the way down to that level, then we are in the wrong business. If that’s the case if you want to micro manage then run for the Board for the Public Works, that’s where you should be. Alderman Pressly I just want to comment, I don’t want to micro manage and I never have, but I do care a lot about the design and I spoke up the very first time about it. Basically I think the bricks are sort of a cozy mill town appeal to it. The atmosphere is very different than what we had and what is now coming in. Someone said it looks a little bit like Hollywood, so its not just the construction, it’s the atmosphere Personnel – 10/01/12 Page 15 that I think has and will be changed dramatically and maybe for the best, but I think it was just something we needed to talk about before. I think we should be in charge of what we want our atmosphere on our Main Street to be. What we’re switching to is quite different in atmosphere than what we’ve had. I think that when people say concrete or bricks, I think they are talking about what it looks like and the atmosphere that it gives. We are going modern in my opinion and maybe that’s fine, but I thought that was the Board of Alderman’s decision to make. I’m not a micro manager. I’m not that in just about anything that I do. Thank you. Alderman Vitale I have been looking at both sides and right now if you look at it the way it is, its really not in a finished state so its going to look a little bit colder. We haven’t seen the flowers put in, we haven’t seen the finishing touches, if there is going to be light changes. We haven’t seen them swept off and used in a finished state. From what I’ve seen and when I’ve been around other cities, I think in the end you are going to be very happy with the look. Just knowing what I’ve heard you say in the past about what you like and the feeling that you like to have, I do think the project in the end is going to be what I’ve heard many people talk about is a desirable thing. I think they are doing a very good job and I have to agree that to come to the point that you are looking down to that level, there has to be some trust in the fact that we hire very good employees that do what they’re supposed to do and we did approve the project. We know everybody wants to have the sidewalks done, we have approved the money and now we need to let it go through the process so we can see the final project and I think we are all going to be very happy with it. In the end you are always going to have nay sayers and there are many choices of what you could do and how many bricks, how much concrete, however. But in the end we are going to like the finished project and it is certainly going to be better than what was there. There is no doubt. Alderman Pressly Safer. It will certainly be safer and that to me has been what bugged me has been the lack of safety on what we’ve had. I am as hopeful as you are. PUBLIC COMMENT - None REMARKS BY THE ALDERMEN - None POSSIBLE NON-PUBLIC SESSION - None ADJOURNMENT MOTION BY ALDERMAN CRAFFEY TO ADJOURN MOTION CARRIED The meeting was declared closed at 7:56 p.m. Alderman Kathy Vitale Committee Clerk, Pro Tem