City Council

ANDOVER CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP MEETING – MARCH 26, 2024 MINUTES The Workshop Meeting of the Andover City Council was called to order by Mayor Bukkila, March 26, 2024, 6:00 p.m., at the Andover City Hall, 1685 Crosstown Boulevard NW, Andover, Minnesota. Councilmembers present: Jamie Barthel, Ted Butler, and Randy Nelson Councilmember absent: Rick Engelhardt Also present: City Administrator, Jim Dickinson Natural Resources Technician, Kameron Kytonen Associate Planner, Jake Griffiths Director of Public Works/City Engineer, David Berkowitz Parks and Streets Operations Manager, Jason Baumunk Fire Chief, Dennis Jones Nature Preserve Commission Members JOINT MEETING WITH NATURE PRESERVE COMMISSION The City Council is requested to meet with the Nature Preserve Commission (NPC) and provide feedback on the mission of the NPC, interest in potential expansion of preserves, and a potential trail in the south upland area of Dalske Woodlands Preserve. Natural Resources Technician Kytonen introduced the members of the NPC. NPR Chair Kim Kovich reviewed the staff report in regard to the NPC’s mission statement and goals. He highlighted each nature preserve and gave the Commission’s recommendation of what they think will improve these spaces, including Martin’s Meadows, North Woods, Maple View, Dalske Woodlands, and a greenspace in the Legacy at Petersen Farms development. He discussed potential partnerships with a number of organizations throughout the State. Commission Gwinn noted these organizations are looking for communities within the metro area for these kinds of opportunities. Councilmember Nelson shared he likes the partnerships as it seems like there are a variety of different ways that they can accomplish their goals and ideas. He noted these ideas are definitely something the Council can look at for the future. Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes – March 26, 2024 Page 2 Councilmember Nelson asked how the greenspace in Legacy at Petersen Farms would connect to Martin’s Meadows. Mayor Bukkila said they would not connect. She explained even though the two spaces would be attached to each other, the public would not be allowed in the greenspace at Petersen Farms as it would be private property. Mr. Kovich explained if this is a conservation easement and there is money available down the line, they could look at opening the private space up to the public. He shared they have met with the Anoka Conservation District and they are looking into this currently. He added they also met with the Minnesota Land Trust on this. Mayor Bukkila shared she was recently in the Petersen Farms area as the development was a part of a recent Council discussion. She noted there is a house in the development that is worth $1,500,000 so the seven lots that they are looking at for this greenspace could be valued very high. She said from a market and value standpoint, she does not know if obtaining these seven lots is reachable. Mr. Kovich emphasized the importance of partners for funding these projects. He shared some of the lots in the development are for sale for around $150,000. He added they do not know what the future will look like for these values. He shared the Commission’s recommendation for a minimum maintenance ditch crossing at Dalske Woodlands. Director of Public Works/City Engineer Berkowitz shared they have discussed this area a lot over the last few years. He said they had a grant that was approved by the DNR but was rejected by the City to build this crossing. He added there is a ditch that goes through this area and there are engineering requirements to cross this ditch. He stated the City would not be able to do something that was substandard in this area. He said he could not support directing a trail to a ditch knowing that it is only dry seasonally. Parks and Streets Operations Manager Baumunk added this crossing would have to be stable enough to get a lawnmower or other equipment to the other side for maintenance and mowing. Mr. Berkowitz shared they would recommend applying for this grant again to see if there would be interest from the DNR to award this grant again. Mr. Kovich said they want this to be something that will take care of the City requirements, but at the same time take care of the people who want to enjoy this space. Councilmember Barthel said he is not sure about the crossing as there are a lot of costs associated with this kind of project. He noted he really likes the concept of looking at properties adjacent to properties that are already nature preserves. He likes the idea of making the existing reserves bigger rather than having many small reserves. He added the existing reserves already have parking lots and other things that they would need to start fresh on with a new preserve. Councilmember Nelson said they would be able to draw more partners for the expansion of Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes – March 26, 2024 Page 3 Martin’s Meadows because of the Rum River. He shared his appreciation for all that the NPC has done in looking at these preserves and how to grow them. Councilmember Butler said he loves the idea of having a crossing at Dalske Woodlands; however, between the engineering requirements for the ditch and the cost even with grants, he worries about why they would do this for a parcel that he believes has low potential for public use. He noted he has been to this area and has walked the trail but he believes they are unlikely to get a significant amount of public access. He added he also likes the creativity of looking at adjacent properties and thinking about partners. He shared his concerns with conservation easements that would not allow public access. He said he would like more information to understand what the long term vision of the conservation easement concept would be. He noted he believes that these areas should be preserved and there should not be a whole lot of park-like development in them, while still being open to the public. Mr. Kovich explained the conservation easement would stop the parcel from being developed. Mr. Berkowitz asked if a conservation easement was purchased and if there is any way that they could change this to allow access for the City if the property owner ever decided to sell the parcel. Mr. Dickinson said the organizations that could help with funding these projects want an agent of the City that can talk to them that would have the authority to do certain things. He asked the Council if they would like staff to have the ability to engage with these organizations about the open space opportunities. He added that Petersen Farms is already supportive of open space or nature preserves with a public component to it. He stated development will be happening around the North Woods and Maple View preserves. Mr. Kovich thanked the Council for their support of the NPC and their time during this meeting. Council consensus was reached to direct the NPC to continue working towards these projects and give Staff the authority to speak to these organizations about funding. DISCUSS VARIOUS CITY CODE AMENDMENTS Associate Planner Griffiths presented the staff report in regard to various City Code amendments. Mayor Bukkila asked how quickly they can get the solicitor license revocation process started. Mr. Griffiths said they should be able to have it done in a month. He added they are trying to get this done where it can be handled administratively, similar to how other licenses are done so the process would only take a day. Mr. Griffiths discussed an invisible fence ordinance. Mayor Bukkila said she does not understand the issue with someone having an invisible fence other than people potentially being scared that a dog could run after them if they do not know Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes – March 26, 2024 Page 4 there is an invisible fence. Councilmember Butler shared he knows the property that this is related to and stated if someone walks by this property, a Pitbull will come charging at you and stop a few feet from the curb which is a problem for everyone in this neighborhood. He asked if there should be a set back from a road or trail for an invisible fence to be installed similar to setback requirements for fences. He added the enforcement of this would be challenging as invisible fences are buried and cannot be physically seen. Mr. Griffiths shared the fence code does allow fences in front yards up to the right-of-way if they are four feet in height or less. Councilmember Barthel stated even if they do require a setback for invisible fences, the dog in question would still be able to scare someone, the dog will just stop farther back in the yard. Mr. Griffiths said that Staff can write an ordinance about this; however, there will be little that they can do to enforce this kind of ordinance. Councilmember Butler said they would really only be able to enforce this through complaints. Councilmember Nelson asked if they would grandfather in everyone who currently has invisible fences or if they would ask people to move their fences. Mayor Bukkila said there is no permit required to put these fences in and she does not want to start a permitting process for this. Mr. Griffiths said they could not find a city in Minnesota that had an invisible fence ordinance; however, they did find one in Michigan that shared that they require licenses for invisible fences. He added this city’s staff has given out one license for this in three years. Councilmember Butler said he would be okay with putting in some kind of setbacks for these invisible fences. He asked if they should do this on the basis of one resident who is inconsiderate to their neighbors, which is how this situation came about. Mayor Bukkila said the only reason this situation came about is because the kind of breed the dog is. She noted they have never had an issue with this before. She added that even if they made this an ordinance, they would not be able to tell the resident in question to move their invisible fence since the ordinance was not in place at the time of the installation of the fence. She noted an ordinance would not accomplish the goal to rectify the existing situation and would only enforce this upon people going forward. She said this would be very complicated. Councilmember Barthel said he feels bad for the people in this neighborhood that have to deal with this dog; however, there does not seem to be anything they can do. Councilmember Butler said he would be in support of a six foot setback for invisible fences from Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes – March 26, 2024 Page 5 roads and trails. Mr. Dickinson said they could put something in as a setback from the road because if there is an invisible fence in the right-of-way they would not assume any liability to the fence if they are doing any road projects in the area. Mr. Berkowitz said it is the same for irrigation systems; however, they have fixed both irrigation systems and invisible fences in the past. Council consensus was reached to not move forward with an ordinance for invisible fences. Mr. Griffiths discussed e-bikes in parks and trails. He shared staff would like to add some language into the code relative to the use of e-bikes in parks. He noted some of the language in code that applies to trails does not necessarily apply to bicycles. Mayor Bukkila said this is a very complex issue and she does not think they will be able to do anything to keep the code up to date. She noted the public has voiced a concern about reckless behavior that runs people off of walking paths on trails or in parks. She said she would like to see something that addresses safe behavior and conduct with some kind of an enforcement mechanism regardless of what the conveyance is. Mr. Berkowitz asked if they should establish a maximum speed. Mayor Bukkila said they would not be able to enforce this. Councilmember Nelson asked if there is already a safeguard in place for speeds over 20 MPH. Mr. Griffiths shared if a bike goes faster than 20 MPH then the State classifies it as a motor vehicle which is not allowed in parks and on trails. He added the State would require a title and license plate for anything that is faster than 20 MPH. Councilmember Nelson said they should implement something but asked how they would enforce it. Mr. Griffiths said it would be handled by the Sheriff’s Office. Mayor Bukkila explained the Sheriff’s Office is likely already getting calls about these types of bikes, but some kind of regulations would allow officers to ID the bike users and escalate the situation they see fit. She said right now the officers do not have any authority to stop the bike users. Council consensus was reached to direct Staff to create e-bike regulations. Mr. Griffiths discussed the expansion of administrative lot splits. He noted this came from the Planning and Zoning Commission who does not want to review these requests any longer for public hearings. Mayor Bukkila said if these lot splits meet City Code then the Council does not need to see them. Councilmember Nelson asked if this would go down from five acres to two and a half acre lot Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes – March 26, 2024 Page 6 splits that administration could approve. Mr. Griffiths said the minimum lot size is two and a half acres for the rural area of town. He said they would likely allow these lot splits to be done administratively if they meet the requirements. Council consensus was reached to direct Staff to expand administration’s authority over lot splits. Mr. Griffiths discussed the new State law related to sacred settlements. He said that the City is locked into the requirements in the State statute and the only decision that the City can make is whether or not these are conditional uses or permitted uses. Mayor Bukkila said she had not heard anything about this and can only imagine the other things that the State created last year that she also did not hear about that took away local control from cities. She shared her concerns with an individual's capability of calling themselves a church and created a sacred settlement on their lot. She said she is looking for ways that this could potentially be manipulated that they may have problems with from a public health standpoint. She added she does not see them needing to do a conditional use permit as inviting a public hearing aspect into this could create a lot of animosity and anger where no one can do anything about it. Councilmember Butler agreed. Councilmember Nelson agreed that the State legislature is taking away more control from the City and the only thing they would still have control over would be the conditional use process. He noted this would be good for staff to be aware of these settlements as they would have to apply. Mr. Griffiths explained if they made this a permitted use the City would still be notified of these settlements and it would essentially become a license based on how the statute set this up. He noted they would still have to provide for parking, disposal of water and sewer, and a severe weather plan. Mr. Dickinson said it may be a challenge for how these settlements dispose of waste. Councilmember Nelson asked who determines this and does the assessment. Mr. Griffiths said cities do not have any enforcement mechanism. Mr. Griffiths added these buildings do not even have to meet building code. He stated making these sacred settlements a permitted use would take an amendment to the City Code. He asked if the Council would like to do this. Council consensus was reached to direct Staff to make sacred settlements a permitted use. Councilmember Butler said the Council has a private kennel license hearing a few months back and there is a lack of understanding of what a private kennel license is. He suggested modifying the City Code to not call this a private kennel license. Mayor Bukkila asked if they could do a zoning designation for this in rural areas and allow people Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes – March 26, 2024 Page 7 to keep more dogs in the rural areas. Councilmember Butler said they should still require kennel licenses when people have a lot of dogs for commercial purposes. Council consensus was reached to direct Staff to research a reasonable number of dogs that can be kept on different sized lots and amend the City Code accordingly. DISCUSS 13306 GLADIOLA STREET NW/REQUEST TO BE ALLOWED TO CONNECT TO COON RAPIDS MUNICIPAL WATER SYSTEM Mr. Berkowitz presented the staff report concerning a request from a resident to connect to Coon Rapids municipal water system. Mayor Bukkila said she does not have a problem with this if there is reasonable access and the property owner wants to pay to get it to their house. Mr. Berkowitz explained there will be expenses related to this for the property owner. He asked if city water is extended into this area in the future, if the Council would be interested in making it a requirement that this property owner has to hook into the City of Andover system and pay all of the relative charges that would be related to this. He added they are currently testing ground water in this area, and it could be a number of years before city water would be extended to this area. He stated they could add a provision to this agreement with the understanding that could be recorded with the property that if city water ever becomes available that this property is responsible to hook up to it, at the property owner’s cost. Councilmember Nelson said he would be in support of this. Mayor Bukkila said she would not want this property owner to bear the expense of hooking up to water twice. Councilmember Butler and Barthel agreed. Councilmember Barthel emphasized this is one property, not a whole neighborhood. He said if city water ever went through this area, they should not make this property switch to Andover water. Mayor Bukkila asked if Coon Rapids water lines are already hooked up to this house if others in the area would have the same opportunity. Mr. Berkowitz said yes and explained this could cause many homes in the area to want to hook up and then the City would have to pay for these costs. He added this would have to be approved by Coon Rapids and they would then enter into a joint power’s agreement. Councilmember Nelson said he would support this since the property owner would be paying all the costs associated with it; however, he would like there to be the understanding that when city water is run to this area the property owner would have to hook up to it. Councilmember Butler agreed with this. Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes – March 26, 2024 Page 8 Council consensus was reached to direct Staff to allow the property owner to hook up to Coon Rapids water with the expectation that he would have to hook up to Andover water when it becomes available. DISCUSS PROPOSED FUTURE TRAIL SEGMENT/CROSSTOWN BLVD. NW FROM XEON ST. NW TO PRAIRIE RD. NW AND INTERSECTION OF CROSSTOWN BLVD. NW & PRAIRIE RD. NW Mr. Berkowitz presented the staff report in regard to the trail segment on the southside of Crosstown Boulevard from Bluebird Street to Xeon Street. He shared the BNSF requirements for a trail that crosses over the railroad. Mayor Bukkila asked if there is an alternative design to the trail requirements over the railroad that could be cheaper than what is proposed. Mr. Berkowitz shared BNSF does an evaluation and they send the highest estimate for them to then work through a negotiation. Mr. Dickinson added part of this has to do with the speed of traffic on Crosstown Boulevard. Councilmember Nelson shared when they first discussed this, they did not know that it would not involve the crossing arms that are already there. He asked if BNSF is wanting them to put in brand new crossing arms along with the trail due to the age of the arms. Mr. Berkowitz explained the trail arms have to be compatible, and they cannot tie in a new signal with an old one. Mr. Berkowitz asked if the Council was supportive of entering into an agreement with BNSF to start the process of this. Councilmember Nelson asked if this would cost $21,000 in escrow. Mr. Berkowitz said yes. Mayor Bukkila added they did this same thing around 10 years ago and ended up costing around $500,000. Mr. Berkowitz shared the total trail cost is around $1,300,000 to fully construct. He stated the railroad crossing is $440,000 and the pedestrian crossing is $569,000. He explained the difference in cost between the railroad crossing and the pedestrian crossing is due to the pads not existing already for the pedestrian crossing. Councilmember Barthel asked if they put a pedestrian crossing in this area if it now becomes a blow zone where the train will have to blow its horns due. Mr. Berkowitz said there is a wayside horn. He said when they have to replace the roadway signal, this will be their opportunity to change the geometrics of the road and make it a true quiet zone with no horn. He said they could do this now or when BNSF has to replace the signals. Councilmember Nelson asked about the pads that are not existing in the pedestrian crossing. Mr. Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes – March 26, 2024 Page 9 Berkowitz said these are concrete pads along the tracks. Mr. Berkowitz explained if they end up moving forward with this crossing, they will need to negotiate easements. He shared they have already negotiated easements for sewer and water for properties in the area. He showed on the map where they will need to negotiate additional easements. He added they would like to negotiate one last time for the rest of the easements needed for this project or future roadway improvements. He said he can bring this back once they have more information from BNSF. Mr. Dickinson asked if they should look at more easements than the minimum they need. Mayor Bukkila said yes if they think that is how much is needed to do road projects in the future. Council consensus was reached to move forward with the study done by BNSF. DISCUSS/REVIEW CITY STRATEGIC PLAN IMPLEMENTATION/BUDGET Mr. Dickinson presented the staff report in regard to the City Strategic Plan implementation and budget. A. Discuss Street System Mr. Baumunk reviewed the conditions and needs of the entire roadway system throughout the City. He reviewed maintenance they have done on the streets over the past few years as well as what they will be working on this current year. He highlighted the immediate needs of the roads to get caught up so they are in a place where they can maintain the entire system as a whole. He discussed the road rating system that they use to determine the priority of the roads. He reviewed the different kinds of road projects they will be doing on the roads based on their ratings. He shared there are 34 miles of roadways that are in need of a full reconstruction, 18.5 miles that are in need of full depth reclamations and curb, 11.6 miles in need of full depth reclamation in rural areas, and 23 miles that are in need of mill and overlay. He said this is a total of 86 miles that they will be working on over the next five to six years. Mayor Bukkila asked how many total miles of roads they have in the City. Mr. Baumunk said there are 205.5 miles of roads in the City. Mr. Baumunk shared these projects over the next five years are projected to cost a total of $66,700,000, an average of $13,000,000 a year, addressing 17.5 miles of road per year over the next five years. Mr. Berkowitz discussed the idea of increasing the assessment rates. He presented the numbers if they were to go from a 25% assessment to a 35% or 50% assessment rate. He stated the average assessment on a full street reconstruction was around $7,479 currently at the 25% assessment rate. He said if they were to go to a 35% assessment rate, the average would be $10,472 and a 50% assessment rate would be an average of $14,958. He said for a full depth reclamation, the average Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes – March 26, 2024 Page 10 assessment was $1,433 at the current 25% assessment rate. He stated if they increased the assessment rate to 35% it would be an average of $2,006 and at a 50% assessment rate it would be $2,866. He shared in the Grey Oaks neighborhood there was a $211 assessment for mill and overlay. He said this assessment would go up to $296 at a 35% assessment rate and $423 at a 50% assessment rate. He shared in North Valley Ridge, which is a rural development, the assessment in this area was $1,054. He said if they increased the assessment amount to 35% it would be almost $1,500 and at 50% it would be a little over $2,000. Mr. Dickinson shared other cities do use higher assessments. He shared he paid an assessment on his home last year and it cost him $3,300 for an 85-foot lot for a full depth reclamation. Mr. Baumunk explained if they can get the 86 miles of roads under control over the next five years, then after that they will be able to fully reconstruct five miles a year and mill and overlay five miles of road per year and would cost around $7,000,000 annually to maintain the roads on the 40- year cycle. Mayor Bukkila asked how this compares to the existing budget. Mr. Berkowitz said Mr. Dickinson will get into this shortly. Mr. Berkowitz shared that Blaine did a study similar to this in 2020. He stated Andover’s cost per mile compared to Blaine’s report is quite a bit less. He explained they dialed this in to be realistic. Councilmember Nelson asked if the materials in the roads have changed over the years that cause them to not last as long as they used to. Mr. Berkowitz explained when they used tar for the roads there were a bunch of materials and chemicals in the material that were bad for the environment, so these have all been taken out. He added MnDOT plays around with flexible pavements. He shared his opinion that the materials are not as good as they used to be. Councilmember Nelson asked if the sealants used can extend the life of the roads. Mr. Berkowitz said it depends on the type of sealant. He explained a chip seal or seal coat would not extend the life. He said they use a new material called Reclamite that has been proven to help extend the life of the roads. He added the Reclamite is very important as it prevents the pavement from oxidizing and becoming brittle. He noted this is a one-time application. Councilmember Butler asked what the County used on Bunker Lake Boulevard that was polymer based. Mr. Berkowitz said this did not last more than two years. He shared they tried this in the Community Center parking lot, and it does not do much and is a lot more expensive. Councilmember Barthel shared concerns with how many miles of road projects are in the rural areas. Mr. Berkowitz added there needs to be a consideration of a single garbage hauler in the City. He explained one garbage truck on the roads is equivalent to 1,000 cars and having multiple garbage trucks in a single neighborhood in one week does tremendous damage to the roads. Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes – March 26, 2024 Page 11 B. Discussion Transportation System Funding Mr. Dickinson reviewed the transportation system. He shared in 2023 the City spent $5,200,000 out of the road and bridge fund and $3,000,000 out of bonds. He added in 2024 they will be spending $6,800,000 out of the road and bridge fund with no bond spending. Mayor Bukkila asked how this compares to the goals that they are setting for street maintenance costs after the next five years. Mr. Dickinson said they will be short about $6,000,000 per year for the next five years. Mr. Dickinson explained they look for grants, State aid, and bonding for these projects. He added they are getting a little bit of a benefit from some of the programs that are coming from the State in regard to some of the private well contaminations. He added they could also look at franchise fees through gas and electric utilities, which would bring in around $280,000 per year with a $1 franchise fee per utility per user. He said if they increased the franchise fee to $4 per utility it would bring in $1,100,000 per year. Councilmember Nelson asked if this would be for residential or commercial customers. Mr. Dickinson said it would be for both residential and commercial, as well as churches and nonprofits. He shared many of the neighboring communities use franchise fees. He noted the downside of franchise fees is that they are looked at as another tax and a way to generate revenue without notification. He added these franchise fees can have an end date. He asked the Council if they would be interested in franchise fees. Councilmember Barthel asked if the $6,800,000 that they will have in the road and bridge fund will be sufficient if they are able to catch up on the roads over the next five years. He said he is against a franchise fee as it would not bring in enough money per year to make a huge difference. Mr. Dickinson said they could use the money from the franchise fees for one portion of these projects. Mayor Bukkila said she does not believe in franchise fees. Councilmember Butler said franchise fees are not transparent. He asked what the Council wants to do to approach what needs to be done to the roads over the next five years. He stated they need to stay on top of the mill and overlay projects. He asked about the tolerance of the Council for bonding or increasing the levy to pay for these projects. Mayor Bukkila said she is open to increasing the assessment rates to 35%. Councilmember Nelson agreed. Councilmember Butler said he is not in support of increasing the assessment as he believes in longitudinal fairness as people who had their roads constructed this year only had to pay 25% and moving forward people would have to pay 35%. Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes – March 26, 2024 Page 12 Mr. Berkowitz added increasing the assessment rate from 25% to 35% is a small amount per household. Mr. Dickinson mentioned urban versus rural assessments. Mayor Bukkila said they do not know how to address this. Mr. Berkowitz explained right now they assess on a percentage rate. He noted even though the City is subsidizing a lot more in this area, the only way that they could find this somewhat equitable is to charge the same percentage in urban and rural areas. He said this is an extremely difficult comparison. Councilmember Butler noted the prioritization of roads and how they not only look at the condition of the road, but they also look at how many people are using the road in question. Mr. Berkowitz said just doing mill and overlay projects will get them into big trouble. He explained they try to stay focused on balancing preservation of roads and reconstructing other roads. Councilmember Barthel said if rural properties are only paying a 25% assessment rate then all of their property taxes to the City for the next 20 years will go to pay off the City’s 75% portion of these road projects. He said he has no problem with increasing assessment rates in rural areas. Councilmember Butler asked if they would have a certain acreage number set that if someone was over this acreage, they would pay an increased assessment rate. Councilmember Barthel said yes. Councilmember Barthel explained the taxes for people who live in the urban area pay for all of the things that the City does while the taxes from the people who live in the rural area only pays for the roads. Mayor Bukkila noted every member of the Council lives in the urban area. Mr. Dickinson stated funding is all about having options. He said they can put together different options on how they could pay for these things. Mayor Bukkila said they will have to come up with some funding combinations between assessment increases in rural areas, increases to the levy, and other things. She noted she would be open to an assessment increase. Councilmember Barthel and Nelson agreed. Councilmember Butler said he would be open to looking at rural and urban splits for assessment increases. He added he is not in support of an increase to the urban assessment rate. Councilmember Barthel asked if they do increase the tax rate to pay for these roads, what will happen with the rates in six years when they do not need extra funding for the roads. He asked if they would then decrease the tax rate. Mayor Bukkila said this would give them an opportunity to Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes – March 26, 2024 Page 13 lower the tax rates. Mr. Dickinson said the easiest way to drop off this increase would be to do it through a bonding program rather than a direct levy allocation into the City funds. He asked if the Council was interested in franchise fees. Mayor Bukkila, Councilmembers Barthel and Nelson were not interested in franchise fees. Councilmember Butler said the one way that they could communicate this transparently with the public is if they do a bonding program with the franchise fee that would be the debt service of the bond for a set period of time. Mr. Dickinson explained they could have an end date to the franchise fee. Councilmember Butler shared the benefit of franchise fees over increasing the levy is that franchise fees are self-solving and this rate would drop off and the Council would have to take action to keep the franchise fees on. Mayor Bukkila shared she would be open to franchise fees hearing this argument. Mr. Dickinson stated he would set up the franchise fees to where the Council would have to restart this whole process after the end date of the franchise fees to keep them on. Mr. Berkowitz asked how much on average it costs to pothole patch a road. Mr. Baumunk said that they spent $45,000 this year just on materials. Councilmember Barthel asked if they went to having one garbage hauler in the City how much they would be saving the roads. Mr. Baumunk said they would be saving the weight of about 5,000 cars a week on the roads. He noted the failures on most of the roads are on the edges where the garbage trucks drive. He said this could save multiple years of wear and tear on the roads. Councilmember Nelson said he is open to looking at having one garbage hauler for the City. Councilmember Barthel agreed. Councilmember Butler said he has some concerns with how this program could be implemented and how they would measure service levels. Mr. Dickinson said this would not be something he would recommend jumping into this year. Mayor Bukkila said she would not entertain this. Mr. Dickinson asked about levy increase tolerance while dealing with streets. He said they would be looking at increasing the levy by a double-digit increase. C. Discuss Fire Services Evaluation RFP Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes – March 26, 2024 Page 14 Mr. Griffiths reviewed the Staff report on the fire services evaluation RFP. He presented the proposed RFP put together by himself and Fire Chief Dennis Jones then reviewed by the City Administrator. Mayor Bukkila said the RFP contained a lot more than she was expecting; however, it seems long overdue. Mr. Dickinson shared when they spoke with other communities, proposals range in cost from $30,000 to $70,000. He noted they had set aside quite a bit of money to do these studies to ensure they did it right. He stated when proposals come in, he is not looking for the cheapest one, but a better fit for Andover circumstances. Mayor Bukkila added some of the information in the RFP scares her. She stated the Council will need help when making decisions on these. Councilmember Butler said they have to make sure they are getting good information on the scope of emergency response services including ambulance services. He asked if they are confident that they will be able to get that information from this process. Mr. Dickinson said he hoped to. Mr. Dickinson noted they could add more to this to make sure it covers some correlation with ambulance services as well. Chief Jones noted with what is going on around the country, and specifically in Minnesota, in regard to local control, data will show that fire-based EMS has better patient outcomes over regular ambulance services. Councilmember Butler said he would like to take an honest look at ambulance services as a part of this. Mr. Dickinson said there are some options out there for ambulance services. He noted they could challenge the ambulance districts that are out there. He explained right now they are primarily served by Allina. Councilmember Barthel shared when he first got on the Council he had a conversation with someone around if they had an ambulance service then they would be able to charge back to insurance companies and hospitals to offset some of these costs. He asked if this was correct. Mr. Dickinson said yes. Chief Jones explained Andover has a high propensity of people who pay taxes that have health insurance so recovery rates will be higher than other communities. He noted it would still come as a cost to the City. Mayor Bukkila said she is cautious of this as it is such a large dilemma that people are not fully aware of. She added this could have an enormous cost and she is not sure if she wants to build Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes – March 26, 2024 Page 15 something to replace the existing ambulance services. She stated that framework of the existing ambulance services is what needs to be addressed first. Mr. Dickinson said they will look into addressing the level of ambulance service in the community as part of this. He noted they may need to push Allina to improve this. He added that supply chain issues are creating some problems in this industry for ambulances. D. 2025 Budget Development Guidelines Discussion Mr. Dickinson reviewed the staff report in regard to the 2025 budget development guidelines. He noted based on previous discussions this evening, he would recommend moving this discussion to the April Workshop meeting so he can make some updates. He gave an update on property market values and added that residential property values have decreased over last year and the market values are leveling out. 2023 CHARITABLE GAMBLING REVIEW/DISCUSSION Mr. Dickinson presented the staff report on 2023 charitable gambling. He shared there was $29,970,000 in charitable gambling sales in 2023 which added $97,576 to the charitable gambling fund. He added there was an opinion letter sent to the Council who is going after the tax rates that the charitable gambling associations pay. Mayor Bukkila shared she had asked Mr. Dickinson if they would be able to approach different associations to see if they could help with the tax issue by lobbying at the State. Mr. Dickinson said he can work on this. Councilmember Barthel stated the only issue is that a few years ago the State changed how they can have charitable gambling and bars can now start their own 501(c)(3) and run gambling in house to make more money without these associations being involved. Mayor Bukkila said she does not believe the charitable gambling tax is a fair or reasonable tax. Mr. Dickinson explained if bars in Andover tried to start this, it would not fit in with City Code so it would not be allowed so there are some protections that the City would have against this. OTHER TOPICS Mr. Dickinson shared they are working on some rebranding items over at the Community Center. He noted the Youth Hockey Association has donated around $160,000 towards lighting and other systems within the facility. He said they would like to be able to put the Andover Huskies above the entry. Councilmember Barthel asked if the Youth Hockey Association paid for the sound system upgrade. Mr. Dickinson said yes. Andover City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes – March 26, 2024 Page 16 Mr. Dickinson said adding the Andover Huskies to the entrance does not label it for one specific sport; however, it does show that the Community Center is the home of the Andover Huskies. He added this is similar to what other communities do. Mayor Bukkila asked if there are any other organizations that use the facility as their home ice rink. Mr. Dickinson said no. Councilmember Nelson asked how much this would cost. Mr. Dickinson shared the Youth Hockey Association would pay for this. Mayor Bukkila said she would like this branding to be removable that would not damage anything when it is removed. Councilmember Butler said he would like this to say, “Home of the Andover Huskies.” ADJOURNMENT Motion by Butler, Seconded by Barthel, to adjourn. Motion carried unanimously. The workshop meeting adjourned at 8:47p.m. Respectfully submitted, Ava Rokosz, Recording Secretary