Historic District Commission

Town Hall TOWN OF CHAPEL HILL 405 Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard Historic District Commission Chapel Hill, NC 27514 Meeting Minutes Chair Sean Murphy Josh Gurlitz Vice-Chair Duncan Lascelles Nancy McCormick Deputy Vice-Chair Polly van de Velde Anne Perl De Pal Chris Berndt David Schwartz Brian Daniels Tuesday, February 8, 2022 6:30 PM Virtual Meeting Language Access Statement Virtual Meeting Notification Board members will attend and participate in this meeting remotely, through internet access, and will not physically attend. The Town will not provide a physical location for viewing the meeting. The public is invited to attend the Zoom webinar directly online or by phone. Register for this webinar: https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_cnoxei4bQWaUBvyTXfABsQ. After registering, you will receive a confirmation email containing information about joining the webinar in listen-only mode. Phone: 301-715-8592, Meeting ID: 892 4587 8789 Opening Roll Call Anya Grahn, Liaison to Commission, Charnika Harrell, Liaison to Commission, Kevin Hornik, Counsel to Commission Present 5 - Chair Sean Murphy, Christine Berndt, Nancy McCormick, Anne Perl De Pal , and David Schwartz Absent 4 - Vice-Chair Duncan Lascelles, Deputy Vice-Chair Polly van de Velde, Brian Daniels , and Josh Gurlitz Page 1 of 5 Historic District Commission Meeting Minutes February 8, 2022 Secretary reads procedures into the record Approval of Agenda Announcements Chair Murphy recognized there was not a quorum of the Commissioners; however, they did not require a quorum to meet and hear from the guest speaker. Chair Murphy asked for an update on preservation month and if the commission need to act on any related activities. Commissioner McCormick said that she, Commissioner Van de Velde, and Commissioner Gurlitz were making progress on the petition, the brochure about owning a home within Chapel Hill's Historic Districts, a Frequently Asked Questions handout, and the script for an informational video. She also mentioned the petition should be available for the commission to review at the March meeting. Commissioner Perl de Pal asked for an outline detailing their preservation month related activities. McCormick offered to work with Grahn on an outline. Perl de Pal asked if only McCormick, Van de Velde, and Gurlitz were providing input on the planned activities. Grahn clarified that Planning Department staff was serving this group as a resource, and not completing the work on behalf of the Commission. McCormick explained that the project was not an exclusive endeavor and welcomed other commissioners to get involved. Murphy encouraged the commissioners to review what was discussed at previous meetings. He referred to the January meeting minutes that detailed McCormick, Van de Velde, and Gurlitz's preservation month activities. Commissioner Berndt asked for an update on David Swanson's petition regarding stone walls. Murphy clarified that the commission is not obligated to act on a petition. He stated the commission agreed to having more discussions and educating themselves on the types of stone walls and stone wall construction. Perl de Pal updated the commission on her effort to have stone masons provide expert advice on stone wall construction at a future meeting. She reached out to historic stone mason families, but they were uncomfortable meeting virtually and were willing to meet in person. She said stone wall masons in the community are multigenerational and the commission does not want to discourage their trade. Petitions Approval of Minutes Because there was no quorum to take action on the minutes, the Commission continued the item to the March 8, 2022 meeting. 1. January 11, 2022 Action Minutes [22-0053] Page 2 of 5 Historic District Commission Meeting Minutes February 8, 2022 Old Business New Business 2. Guest Speaker: David Hoggard, Double Hung, LLC [22-0054] Grahn introduced guest speaker David Hoggard, founder of Double Hung, LLC, a family-owned window and door restoration company. She also mentioned Hoggard served on Greensboro's Historic Preservation Board (HPB). Hoggard said he started his business while serving on the HPB. When the HPB realized no one knew how to restore a wood window, he took it upon himself to learn and perfected his craft while restoring historic houses. He started the business in his garage and now employees forty people. Double Hung, LLC has completed work as far north as Grand Rapids, Michigan and as far south as Tallahassee, Florida. He introduced his son, Jackson Hoggard, his successor. Hoggard gave the commission a tour of their facility using his phone. He showed a coworking space for carpenters and the woodshop where they reconstruct and rebuild windows. Hoggard discusses sustainability and described the complaints he heard from homeowners about energy efficiency. He explained that windows are naturally inefficient because they are holes in the wall and will never have the same R-value as an insulated wall. He said their slogan is that wood windows generally are not beyond repair but ready for repair. He said the problem is finding people who know how to restore windows. He said owners may need to find a specialized shop and there may not be a huge difference in cost. Jackson described his experience of obtaining a quote from a high-end window company for the windows at his house, and he stated that the quote was more expensive than what they would charge for wood window restoration. Commissioner McCormcik asked when a window is beyond repair. David Hoggard said a window may be beyond repair due to extreme termite infestation or decades of water damage. Hoggard said original windows made of durable, old growth wood could last 100 years with replacement elements such as ropes and broken glass. He said in his experience replacement windows typically required replacement every fifteen to twenty years because new windows are not designed to be repaired and contemporary materials are not as durable as historic materials. He also cautioned that having a design standard that required replacing a wood window with a wood window is problematic as contemporary wood windows are often construction of new growth wood, which is not as strong as old growth wood. Commissioner Schwartz asked what questions the commission should ask Page 3 of 5 Historic District Commission Meeting Minutes February 8, 2022 if an applicant proposes replacement windows. Hoggard replied the Commission should ask for the reason for replacing the window and documentation. He suggested asking for a window survey that details the condition of the existing windows. He stated there are two elements to energy efficiency: infiltration (when air comes in around the window) and thermal (transfer for heat or cold across the surface of the window). Schwartz mentioned a previous applicant that told the commission Double Hung recommended they replace their windows or that they were beyond repair. Counsel Hornik mentioned that when an applicant makes representations about salvageability to the commission, it behooves the Commission to ask for documentary evidence to corroborate the applicant's statement. He said it seemed like a lay person-the property owner-presented what should have been expert testimony and further clarified that the commission cannot rely on non-expert testimony. Jackson Hoggard discussed their work through the Window Preservation Alliance (WPA) to educate builders and contractors. He explained their intent to help train and certify contractors to increase the depth of available restoration specialists. The Window Preservation Alliance (WPA) represents 175 window restoration companies and has resources including a library on studies with some of the information they presented to the commission. They are trying to find contractors who want to learn. Commissioner Perl De Pal asked how to strengthen the information presented to the commission. She asked if there are recommended drawings they might require and if there is a way to require large projects to provide drawings to ensure details are thoroughly reviewed. Jackson said the Commission could work through the WPA to create documentation with guidelines. Hoggard said they could request a window survey from a third-party expert. Perl de Pal also mentioned projects where windows will be matched in kind, but no documentation is provided. Hoggard said in-kind means matching every aspect of the window including wood species. Chair Murphy thanked the speakers and adjourned the meeting. Adjournment Next Meeting - March 8, 2022 Order of Consideration of Agenda Items: 1. Staff Presentation 2. Applicant’s Presentation 3. Public Comment 4. Board Discussion 5. Motion Page 4 of 5 Historic District Commission Meeting Minutes February 8, 2022 6. Restatement of Motion by Chair 7. Vote 8. Announcement of Vote by Chair Public Charge: The Advisory Body pledges its respect to the public. The Body asks the public to conduct themselves in a respectful, courteous manner, both with the Body and with fellow members of the public. Should any member of the Body or any member of the public fail to observe this charge at any time, the Chair will ask the offending person to leave the meeting until that individual regains personal control. Should decorum fail to be restored, the Chair will recess the meeting until a genuine commitment to this public charge is observed. Unless otherwise noted, please contact the Planning Department at 919-968-2728; planning@townofchapelhill.org for more information on the above referenced applications. See the Advisory Boards page http://www.townofchapelhill.org/boards for background information on this Board. Page 5 of 5