Planning Commission

Minutes CLEVELAND MUNICIPAL PLANNING COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING JULY 16, 2024 CLEVELAND MUNICIPAL BUILDING 190 CHURCH STREET NE The regular meeting of the Cleveland Municipal Planning Commission was called to order by Tricia Pennington, Chairman, at 6:00 P.M. Commissioners present included: Tricia Pennington, Blake Allison, Bill Estes, Jamie Creekmore, Tiffiani Sherlin, Alma Dotson, and Maryl Elliot Commissioners absent included: Ben Berry and Clarke Taylor Staff present included: Robert Varnell, Planning Director, Joel Prince, Planner II/Codes Supervisor, Joe Fivas, City Manager, and Jonathan Jobe, Assistant City Manager/Development and Recreation Legal Counsel present included: John Kimball, Attorney for the City of Cleveland. Others present included: Mark Ball of Sunbelt Rentals, Inc. and Tony Richmond of RSC The minutes of the June 18, 2024, regular meeting were presented for approval. Bill Estes made a motion to approve the June 18, 2024, minutes and Maryl Elliot seconded the motion. A Vote of 7-0 passed the motion. Yes-7 No-0 Recused-0 Absent-2 In Public Hearings, Tricia Pennington: All right, public hearings. We are opening a public hearing for anyone who would like to speak to anything that's not on the agenda. Is there anyone here who would like to speak? There's not any. Close the public hearing and move to the consent agenda. In the Consent Agenda, a request by Teresa Vincent for approval of a preliminary plat for property located at McCann and 11th Street (also described as Tax Map 058H Group J Parcel 014.00) and located within the R-3 Low Density Single and Multi-Family Zoning District. b request by Three Point Development, LLC for approval of a preliminary plat for property located at Old Powerline Road NE (also described as Tax Map 058 Parcels 034.00, 034.01, 004.00, and 005.00 and located within the PUD 33 Zoning District. c a request by Riverstone Construction for approval of a final plat for property located at Minnis Road (also described as Tax Map 058 Parcel 024.00) and located within the PUD 41 Zoning District. d request by CT Properties for approval of a preliminary plat for property located at 18th Street NW (also described as Tax Map 049C Group J Parcel 026.00) and located within the R-2 Low Density Single and Multi-Family Zoning District. Robert Varnell: Thank you, Madam Chair. We've got a couple of items. The first item is a preliminary plat on 18th St. It came through this body for rezoning a few months back. This is 1.6 acres. Eight lots as depicted on the preliminary plat. As you can see, you guys may remember seeing this before. There are a couple of comments that need to be addressed on the plat before staff will sign off on it. Stormwater had a question about the possibility of a stream at the base of lots 5 through 8 and some right-away discussions as we discussed in the zoning process. Blake Allison: Can I ask one question? Does a 50-foot right away still allow buildable? Robert Varnell: Well, it may end up being 40, I think 40 is the number that maybe. And so, I put 50 in there. I'm waiting for these comments to come out and it's Blake Allison: If 50 and you have a 30-foot stream going through. Robert Varnell: It would be difficult, so we will figure that part out. Blake Allison: But it’s there, the comments are there. Robert Varnell: The comments are there, and it’s also going to have to do a civil submittal which a lot of that will get cleaned up. Blake Allison: I’ve slept since then, but was the main thing we were looking at was the right of way? Were there any other items? I know people were concerned about traffic, etcetera. It’s a through street, nothing we can do there, but the right of way and with it just being a straight rezoning and not a PUD there is nothing we can do as far as road improvements at this point. Robert Varnell: I think they are, you know, with this many lots, it would become a common development and engineering may look at improvements to that section of the road. I’m not sure how they’re going to land at the end where that will meet because of what’s above and below it. Blake Allison: The concern, though, is if there’s going to be sidewalks required. Robert Varnell: They are Blake Allison: It’s an engineering thing, I get it, but let’s just for the record, let’s keep sidewalks in mind with future road improvements. Robert Varnell: The second item is from pub 41 19.85 acres on Menace Road. This is 74 lot phase of this development that has been revised a few times but here it is in plat form again because obviously they found the TVA property to the far end of this side, which is not actually on this plat. There are a few comments here, labeling primarily and then the request of where the face split to be. Cul-de-sac in one shape form or another, but a couple of comments there, site work, etcetera. Any other questions on that one? The next one is applicants Theresa Vincent on 11th St. and McCann. This is a R3 zoning 28 lots. It's a mix of multifamily as well as single-family. As you can see, it's got the new road going in and there's existing lots on the existing street frontages. One note was left. It's just the phone numbers needed on the plat. The next item is by Three-Point Development, Old Power Line Road, 38.23 acres, part of PUD 33. This is a preliminary plat request of 116 lots. This one has a lot of labeling and other work. We should have a new submitter on it, but I didn't want to hold up the process for them. They've got to put the elevations on there. They've got to put the road profile, etcetera, sidewalks. This group hadn't worked with us before. So. And then there's the engineering comment as well, which is the cross-section as I stated. So as far as the consent agenda, that's all there is. One needs to be pulled off to discuss more. I'm happy to do otherwise. Jamie Creekmore made a motion to approve the Consent Agenda pending staff comments, seconded by Bill Estes. The motion passed 7-0. Yes – 7 No -0, Absent – 2 Recused - 0 Old Business There was no Old Business In New Business, a. request by Phoenix Investors, LLC for consideration of an ordinance to zone about 3.36 acres, more or less, of property located 455 Inman Street from CBD Central Business District to PUD 52 and includes Tax Map 057D Group E Parcel 020.00. Robert Varnell: Yes, so this body recommended against the original zoning request at this location by this applicant. The request was for a straight commercial zoning. It was sent to the City Council with that recommendation of denial. City Council looked at it and asked if this body as well as staff could take another look at that, utilizing the possibility of a PUD zoning which would in essence allow the specific use in some of the needs that the applicant would want that the current zoning does not allow specifically outdoor storage and then some architectural stuff with the possibility of a redevelopment in the future. So, what I attempted to do was pretty much keep the CBD requirements from within the zoning ordinance. Put them in the PUD and then included the addition of a retail sales and rental establishment with outdoor storage, but it must be screened, so that's it's CBD plus it has that. So that's pretty much what I've done and so any redevelopment in the future would have to follow those guidelines as played out. So, if the applicant moved on to another location or whatever it was the site redeveloped in the future, would not be wide open like we were concerned about before with the commercial zoning and it being just any. So, there are some landscaping requirements and things like that. We do have a representative of the applicant here who may want to share some thoughts. He provided the handout that each of you all have there. The little packet that I handed out there before the meeting. In a sense their site plan is depicted as shown. This site plan is close to what the PUD requires, but it's something that I think we can clean up and that you know the applicant is agreeable to, or at least through the discussions we've had, I believe they are, so it keeps the CBD, adds the use and allows for outdoor storage. So pretty much I just took that and said this fits what they're asking for. Bill Estes: The outdoor storage is a delivery that is approved. Robert Varnell: Yes. The PUD dictates or describes that the storage would be to the rear from the back building line behind it. Bill Estes: Why in the southeast corner? There are ingress and egress at an angle on Bible St. Robert Vanell: I think that wouldn’t get through engineering, because Inman’s right here as well. I think there’d be massive problems with that. There’s a grade here. That’s probably why they looked at it that way. It goes down here and then continues to go down here this flat so. Alma Dotson: They also would drill it on that side right where he said the... Robert Varnell: So, the question is, you know and this, being current, you know it, I think it would be difficult in the end for the site to be that access point to be approved by engineering. You're talking about state and local. Bill Estes Yeah, you can’t go and come on out. Robert Varnell: Those comments were expressed to me, none of our engineers have really looked at it close enough to say we need to change this before the meeting, but that is something that you keep going. Bill Estes: We’re good Robert Varnell: Yeah, well, the other kind of components are the landscaping would have to go in front of any fencing that they might require. So that would be between the right of way and any fencing. There’s a landscape street yard now, I adjusted a little bit from the CBD requirement. I did get a comment from one of our members who's not here saying I like the other way better. So that's something y'all can discuss instead like I put in there with some trees and shrubs and what the CBD requires. If you're going to have parking or open space as opposed to a building, it's a wall. With a hedge or both, it can be either or, but so it would be a hedgerow as opposed to trees and shrubs kind of spaced out. Otherwise, the storage would go to the rear, and if it redevelops anything new is built to the site. It does have to meet that CBD ordinance. That's the way we put it in there. That pretty much sums it up. I mean, it's pretty straightforward. It's not difficult, you know, it fits what they need from a specific right now moment, but it protects what the city's vision is long term. That's what I was trying to achieve. That's what the City Council asked us to do. I'm happy to let Mr. Mark Ball, who is a representative of the company, speak a little bit if you guys have, you may have a question for me first. Blake Allison: All right, Robert. I know we’re moving a little bit quickly on this one. If there’s any way we can get concept plans. On our process concept plans through engineering prior to this because the driveway change in most municipalities is a pretty big change. And I understand that comment and really… Robert Varnell: There is a process laid out where there could be a staff review, but I mean it takes about 45-60 days before it would ever get to you. You know, I hate to draw things out more, but there are times when it’s needed. Blake Allison: With it being where we're in a mixture between CBD and then also what's around it, right, some existing industry around it completely understand that. I appreciate the applicant coming and looking at the PUD to try to massage something in between, right, that works for everyone. A couple of questions. Love to see the hedgerow. To take in a portion of the CBD. Not a huge fan of the fence. These are personal, but I think again, we're trying to go in between an industry and a CBD type requirement. The fence with the green screening in it. That. It's kind of hiding a hedge and some shrubbery that could look great and do the same thing. Robert Varnell: And remember that hedge would be the outside of the fence. Blake Allison: As it is right now, it’s not Robert Varnell: Now the fence would certainly have to move from the present location. Blake Allison: On the concept plan, it just wasn’t drawn. So, I’ve looked up to some of the colleagues here to what we would think and maybe even city staff on the fence piece. I know we’re getting in the weeds, but that’s what a PUD allows us. Robert Varnell: And that’s what we need to figure out while we’re here. I’d like to move forward with something that the Council is comfortable with, that y’all are comfortable with, and that the staff is comfortable with at this point. That is my goal at least. Blake Allison: I’d recommend a continuous hedge and still if we could stick with, we have a lot of square footage there. If we could stick with our linear footage of shade trees, doesn’t’ necessarily need to mean they are not necessarily on the perimeter or whatnot, but long term that’s going to help that area. So, we could do the shade trees and then is there any requirements on the PUD? Again, we’re marrying two different areas but to have some masonry on a lot of times on CBD and on PUDs we have water level masonry. Sometimes it’s first floor, sometimes it’s 48 inches. Robert Varnell: You know, there’s not necessarily any requirements, architectural requirements that were included in this one for the existing structure, any future development I did put that in there. I’m not necessarily against what you’re saying and could certainly see that it would benefit it, but you know the architectural renderings that they provided, which is in your packet as well, but I put a little graphic of it up here. Just before, I was sure we were going to have the paper copies too. Blake Allison: Without a doubt, it’s an upgrade. Alma Dotson: I disagree Blake Allison: I think it is, personally while I have the floor, I still think it is personally, but I think it’s an upgrade compared to the picture of the existing building. What I would like to see is other uses potentially, but I think in the PUD it does give us some shelter there. Robert Varnell: It certainly does much better than the straight across the board and you know whether it was industrial or commercial highway zoning or something of that nature that is wide open. This does kind of tighten it up a little bit and restrict certain things like storage and fuel. You know other uses like that. Blake Allison: The sidewalk, right now, that’s normal for a site like this, but is there any way to get a sidewalk defined? We are at a rough concept plan right now to get a sidewalk defined other than walking through a parking lot. Robert Varnell: That’s right, to the front door and you know … Blake Allison: How do we get all these in motion, Bill? Robert Varnell: I think it will be defined when the access points are defined as well because right now you know with their business model, I think they do like to base it on the sites that I’ve reviewed all over the Southeast that they do like it fenced, it’s typical of their business model. Blake Allison: I understand that I would maybe sine away from some of the drain netting, but they were trying to do that as a courtesy. Robert Varnell: They are trying to work with us as well, and I want to be clear about that. Blake Allison: And I’ll shut up here soon, but the signage? Are we going to see that? Are we mirroring CBD requirements as far as pylon or? Robert Varnell: Yeah. Anything not specifically referenced that does stat that all that would be covered by the CBD. It would have to meet the signage CBD standard based on the PUD that you’ve got. Blake Allison: And the applicant is OK with that? Mark Ball: We’ve seen it Robert Varnell: He probably doesn’t have a great sense of what the CBD is, it’s more of a monument style than the pylon and things like that, but there are locations where they have signs like that because some cities only let you do that. If you have any questions for the applicant? Alma Dotson: First of all, gentlemen, I think it would be best because this area is under a great deal of research right now in terms of development and it seems to be strategically set here as we study this new development that is about to come through this area with the transportation department. And monies that could be available. I’m a little saddened that you talked about employment opportunities, but none of the people in that area know about this to be employed or have tentative employment there or the idea that you would present it to the community that is, that it is going to be lodged in specifically. The historical Black College Hill Neighborhood Association. In that neighborhood there, also too, I mean the traffic and the noise. It’s just not esthetically what we’re trying to achieve in our community, but you know, having that right there, right behind our churches and were trying to talk about the walkway, that’s one of the things we’ve really been talking about because the walkway is under par. We voted about an 8-foot; I think that walkway is like 2. Robert Varnell: Are you talking about the existing sidewalk on Inman? It’s probably close to 5, most likely based on the redevelopment plans I’ve seen when they widened that section and re-did Linden. Alma Dotson: They have been managed, all of that as well as the roundabout is supposed to come right there at Gaut, in that area. I just would have felt a little better if you had, you know, maybe gotten on board with the neighborhood that is going to be in and at least let them know and then talk about some of the things that my colleague here is talking about them some. Robert Varnell: I’m sure that I’ll speak and then the applicant will speak, but I’m sure that they haven’t really addressed their staffing needs at any level to this point yet, they don’t even at this point know if they can use this location for a business. So, I doubt that they’re thinking about that kind of stuff yet, but I’m certain that they, you know, would take that into consideration and I’ll step out of the way and let the applicant speak a little bit as well. Mark Ball: Yes, good evening, I’m Mark Ball, director of real estate for Sunbelt rentals. Glad to be here this evening. Happy to answer any questions with regard to staffing, Robert is correct, I mean we haven’t even begun to think about that because we don’t know if the use is going to be approved, although we do have an employee who is in our Knoxville office who’s requested a transfer, if we can get this facility and he is from Cleveland, grew up here, went to school here, would like to get back home. I know there was a question about the entrance so that you know that entrance at Inman is an existing gate that’s there, and I realize that’s not the best location, but Bible Street is pretty narrow. The 1st St is a pretty narrow street and obviously, we probably wouldn’t get TDOT approval to get an entrance off of Inman, so, I don’t know what the answer is there, maybe it can slide further North on Bible slightly. Blake Allison: Is a Bates St. entrance possible? Mark Ball: There is an entrance on Bates, yeah. Blake Allison: You’re requiring 2? Mark Ball: Yeah, we would need 2. We try to keep the customers separate from the trucks so that they are not mixing together just from a safety perspective. And it’s a little intimidating if you’re you know, you’re driving a car to go in to pick up a carpet cleaner or something, you don’t want to be dodging trucks and equipment in the parking lot. Blake Allison: I would like to move that entrance onto Bible, I think would be hard-pressed to have an entrance onto Inman given Wildwood intersects Inman right at the location. Maybe a difficult right? Jamie Creekmore: Is customer parking looking or entrance to be on that right side? Mark Ball: Yeah, so this end of the building is going to be remodeled and there’ll be an office and showroom added into that space about 1,000 sq ft of office showroom. And so, the customer would come in and park in front of the building. This would be when we took off the elevation, but the front elevation has a storefront glass with you know, glass front door. So, this would be that those 2 parking rows would be facing what would be kind of the front entrance to the building which faces Bible. Jaime Creekmore: So, assuming they got moved up Bible St. All of the customer traffic that will be coming in on that street and then ideally commercial traffic coming off of Bates. Mark Ball: Correct Maryl Elliott: I’m looking at the business hours and they’ll close at 5:00 on Monday – Friday and noon on Saturday. Alma Dotson: But I think also for just the courtesy of maybe event speaking with the church that’s right going to be. Right now, so gardening to the neighborhood that we’re here, you know some type of diplomacy. Mark Ball: I understand, I mean we’re happy to talk to him. There was a little confusion about, you know when meetings were over because I think the city was dealing with Phoenix investors, who’s our landlord. And so, we weren’t getting that information, so we weren’t trying to you know blow into town and not communicate. Alma Dotson: And I do know that the plumbing and the underground tunnels, those kinds of things, there’s some issues over in that area. Bill Estes: Can you go back a slide to the site plan? So why have parking facing the streets? Mark Ball: Well, that’s where the office showrooms are going to be here. Are you thinking that it ought to be on the other end? Is that where you are? Bill Estes: Thinking, let me just ramble for a second. You go forward, one slide and I got a couple of other things, and this is from people who have commented since City Council. In the upper right, the proposed street view, A big green fence is not aesthetically to me particularly on a gateway entrance to town. Can you go back? Now, Robert, yes sir, so if I understand the need to fence in all your right so I’ve been looking at Sunbelt, which everything you’ve got been looking at, everything is pretty similar. You guys are pretty structured, like I was in Knoxville today and you had like 3 stores back-to-back. To back right off the interstate. If you could move the fence off of Inman St. and fence everything in from the back and maybe if the parking were on the far South side, rather than on the east side then the aesthetics of the front, everything gets cleaned up if very simple, you know, can you guys do those kinds of things. Alma Dotson: The brick front, like the thing he was saying Bill Estes: Well, let's hold off on brick and all that other stuff. This is bigger right now, the fence because people are going to really see it from the road because it is raised up. It’s raised up and then all of a sudden you get a green fence. It looks like the South side of DC when I’m driving down 8th St and stuff it does look you know Mark Ball: Well, I mean, we are happy to go with, you know, a chain link fence or, you know wrought iron or whatever, but there is an issue. I mean we have to be able to use the whole site for storage behind the building... Bill Estes: Exactly, the whole thing. So that’s why I was thinking if you move the parking. I understand that there’s parking to the South side of the of the building, down on the Inman St part, you could use the storage next to Bible in the backside. A wrought iron fence is wonderful, and some trees, as mentioned, are great. It’s a lot better than just a big green monster to my colleagues. Real quick, I have some history here. I went to the BZA and spoke against Two Brothers Tires. If you remember, if you’ve seen the old Mullinax Ford dealership. And it’s also a transition area, right? And you’ve got our homes, you’ve got churches, you’ve got redevelopment coming in through there. And what the way they wanted to do it, it’s just good there was sidewalk issues, there was ingress, egress and then how are they going to fencing and going to store junk cars in the back and where and how do you keep all of that? The BZA gave them everything they wanted, against city staff recommendation, against the Historic Cleveland neighborhood was against it. I was against it. BZA voted 5-0 and gave them everything they wanted. To their credit, Two Brother’s credit they went above and beyond. The way they handle the fencing. I know they put the black tarps in, I don’t know exactly what that’s called, the way to put the slats in, the way they’ve covered it, up to the painting they’ve done. That’s given me a lot of peace about this of seeing something done in a transition area that was done well that really you know you’re not going to tear down the Old Mullinax and what’s the highest and best use for the city. How do you make that aesthetically and practically for the applicant or for you know, the owner of Two Brothers? The only difference is that they are local, right? And we know they’re going to live with us and be our neighbors. We don’t know about something. So that’s why I’m coming again. This is just the first blush. Robert, if you want to jump in here if this can’t happen let me know. I’m drawing on my experience of Two Brothers from a year ago, a couple of years ago. Robert Varnell: Yeah, I mean I think the biggest question is how much storage space they will need and doing some real critical site design and analysis of where that goes. That’s what’s going to make or break what we’re doing right here in my opinion. Bill Estes: I’m not opposed to the green fence at all, particularly as it faces Archer Daniels, middle cargo, or whatever is in the back of Mr. Hicks’ factory across the street there. I’m not opposed to that with the green fence, but the aesthetics on Inman are very important, so much so that a green fence gives me real pause. Blake Allison: One thing that the green fence does do is provide some sort of shielding and that’s what I think we’re getting at the issue is the nature of this equipment. We are developers, we rent stuff, we have equipment. The offense isn’t going to cover everything we talked about. Oh, we’ll get rid of the fence, we’ll put in a wrought iron fence. Regardless, we’re going to have 30 ft tall equipment. All through. Front of that so if we can do cypress or green giants or something that we’re actually going to have some height. In addition to, let’s say just the inventor street goes to wrought iron or like what we have for commercial gateway next to McAlister’s, etcetera, aluminum black aluminum fence trying to be cost conscious in their estimate. Go to security fencing right because you look at your neighbors across from it and see if we can get it would be really nice to have pretty clear buffers in place on a concept plan prior to approval. If we can get those buffers lined out in place. Whatever else, I’d be happy to take a stab at it. I’m trying not to design your society where we are Monday morning quarterback and your… Maryl Elliott: Isn’t there a big drop from Inman St on the South side down to the property? Mark Ball: Yeah, there is. Robert Varnell: So, it kind of goes from being above to and then being below because it’s going down towards the underpass, yeah. Mark Ball: And that’s one of the challenges is you get at this end of the site. You know you’re 6-7 feet below the grade of the site when you get to the other end of Inman. Five feet above the parking lot so you are transitioning down the hill. Bill Estes: So, Mr. Ball with this, you see how the green wrap in the upper right it stops 20 feet in on that street and doesn’t evolve? Mark Ball: And Bates Bill Estes: Why just wrap it around and then cut it out? Mark Ball: On the front somehow, yeah, I mean the intent of that was to really show the grading of the street elevation so that when you’re looking up the eve is 20 feet high, so I know there’s a concern about the height of the equipment, but I guess the point of this illustration was to show whether it’s landscaping, whether it’s you know a mesh on the fence to show that coming, you know eastbound on Inman. You’re really only looking at the top of the building. You're not going to see a lot of equipment. Bill Estes: Aluminum or aluminum black. Trees, not just Cypress, but actual trees would be much more in line with Community Development. You know, the commercial business districts. Say CBD, I get all mixed CBD. Robert Varnell: The distance requirements that I have in the PUD I think are pretty good because they allow the tree to grow to a mature height if there’s an additional layer that needs to be included. Blake Allison: Aluminum fence on Inman. And frankly, when you’re going eastbound, is that right? You kind of cut 75 ft of fence along Bates as well, a little bit. So, what we’re trying to do is tidy up that visual right and still maintain a fence for security. Get you what you need. So, I have an aluminum fence on Inman and 75 ft along Bates black aluminum. And then I have moved the entrance, we will lean on engineering to move the entrance away from Inman. And then continuous hedge. Whether this this is a wish list, whether this falls through this body great, but the continuous hedge is fine with the fence everywhere else and then the trees. Robert, is there any way we can show a buffer while still being able to advertise your company, but show a buffer and use that elevation change to our advantage? And we show a buffer of green giants. What we typically do on a, let’s say R2 versus R1 buffer, because that’s what I’m familiar with is like a 15 ft buffer and the 12 ft. That’s 10ft. No, they’re closer. They’re about 8 ft on the diagonal. Robert Varnell: Yeah, something like that. Blake Allison: 12 would probably be mature, right? Bill Estes: 12 with 4-inch calibers. Blake Allison: So, if we can get green giants to shield and then hit every 25 or whatever it is… I’d love to see all this buffering and everything crystal clear on a plan that we’re trying to approve instead of trying to design a plan that works. I understand there are timelines and everything else, and I’m trying to be cognizant of that, I’d really like to see in the future if we’re going to all these PUDs to have some clear-cut approvals of what we’re trying to do and if that means table it and we get all that handled and we go quick, that eats a month, I understand that, I know it's difficult. Where are we on that? Mark Ball: Well, I mean our challenge is that we’ve had this facility leased for 2 years and we’re paying lease payments for a facility we cannot use. And so, we’re you know, we’re at the breaking point on what we’re going to do. Blake Allison: I appreciate the jobs and everything you outlined is a great deal. In no way, in my mind, I’m speaking personally, not for my colleagues do I want to deny this and keep this from moving forward. We’re in a spot where we’re in between CBD and heavy industrial actually fits. So, we’re kind of down into the details, if you will, if you guys are open to it, Bill. I can take a stab at it with some of these to keep you rolling. Is that something the staff is open to? Unknown: A little 10-minute break and write it up Blake Allison: I got it, this 10-minute will save you a month. How about that? Mark Ball: that would be appreciated. Tricia Pennington: Yes. So, we will reconvene our production now. Blake Allison: Yeah, I’ll take a stab at it. I move to approve with the following conditions, Joel and I’ll see what we can do. Tricia Pennington: Just talk slowly, right? Blake Allison: Black aluminum fence along Inman. And 75 feet along Bates. Move the entrance away from Inman Transportation to advise. A continuous hedge around the perimeter in concordance with CBD standards, including the 35-foot shade tree requirement, adding Green Giant or Evergreen trees spaced 10 feet apart along Inman and 75 feet of Blythe. Bill Estes: I would like to 2nd that for discussion. Trica Pennington: OK we have a first by Mr. Allison a second by Mr. Estes. Is there more discussion? Bill Estes: We will speak to Alma’s concerns. Blake Allison: First yeah, I do, and I appreciate your point of view there, Alma, that’s why I enjoy you being on here. The preservation of the site right now from my eyes. What we’re seeing is a metal building that’s in need of something there. Right? I think we can agree that the aesthetics could be cleaned up there, in my mind, I don’t mind, I could be wrong, this is a personal opinion, but I don’t see anything else coming in there that is due to the location, what’s around it that’s going to be a beautiful apartment building or beautiful housing or something. In that location, I think this is a good transition from industry down all the way to residential given the neighboring buildings around it. I’m in favor and would move forward with the motion on that, just the transition between what we can do and what we’re trying to do is just clean up the front. Alma Dotson: I respect what you’re saying, but I see another vision that’s totally different in comparison to some of the things that… Robert Varnell: Well, I think, and I just want you to know, I get your vision and we’re working with the neighborhood just what she’s alluding to is we’re currently having a kind of deep dive on future land use and things like that within the neighborhood. I think that the PUD allows the utilization of the property as it is today in its current form and with what neighbors have around it while protecting the city’s ability moving forward for when it does develop it will be something that you know, but that might be a while. And so, we certainly want it to be the highest and best use it can be today knowing that in the future that could improve and that’s what we’re trying to do. I feel like staff did an OK job with trying to thread that needle in addition to the comments that have come out today. I mean, you know, we have to work with the applicant on what that looks like and how that functionally works, but I think that type of fence in the front and those kinds of things will certainly improve the overall design and look that the site would have, that’s for sure. Blake Allison: Buffer trees are typically roughly 10-12 ft apart. Like we said, and they’re typically a minimum of 6 ft tall. They will grow to 18-20 and you will not see the top of that building. What I’m ok with for minutes is a sign, but you can still see from the road. Robert Varnell: Yeah, absolutely, I mean, there’s going to be some give and take when we’re going through about how moving the tree over here a little bit or whatever it is. Those things happen through site design at the staff level. Alma Dotson: Presentation as to why move from a central business district to apply. Robert Varnell: Because the Central Business District does not allow outdoor storage. This use requires outdoor storage, but everything else would be modeled. Bill Estes: After that, some of the Council we had interesting conversations on the Council, both Mr. Ball and the couple from Phoenix and investors. The request is Commercial HWY. The CH gives them CART block and there needs to be some kind of protection for the city etc., particularly for this. It is a unique place with Adm and carpool right behind and Mr. Hicks’s tool dash. I don’t know exactly what his factor right there across the street and it’s right next to the railroad tracks. As much as we are working to bring in what? What new has come in on the Inman Corridor, Harris’s, I know Spoonies took over the Mason as running mate, right? Don’t’ know if they own it or what they’re working out of the Mason, the old Masson building. Yeah, see, and I went y the other morning. This is when I stopped y the 2 places right off 1-75 or I-40. I guess it’s 40 in Knoxville, not 75. It is Clean and well-maintained, and it’s a good business. Makes sense for me, transition between visiting those two places and they’re right on the other side on the east side of Knoxville. They’re right on the other side of the east side of Knoxville. If you drive, if you want to go see, they’re both, like only a couple exits apart and they’re right close to the interstate. These are the kind of businesses that will bring people downtown. It really will and what kind of people it’s going to be, the small businesspeople that need to rent equipment that is provided by Sunbelt. My concerns were similar to y’all’s and certainly the Commercial Hwy was not acceptable. The Council was kind of like this is kind of what this would be a good business, can we do it? I know that one of my members was concerned about gravel in the back, you know, with the dust that comes from that and the limit, the gravel. But understanding certain size rigs have to be on gravel and not asphalt. What pushed me over was actually seeing the sights on i-40 two weeks ago, and then just thinking through the Two Brothers and Mark, if this passes and passes the Council, I beg you to be a good neighbor. You know, no, he hasn’t gone to the churches, but it’s not the church’s decision, it’s their property and they can petition the city however they want to handle PR, they can handle it. I think they made a huge misstep, so by not coming and they at the very last minute, the 11th hour, OK. But they still can do this. That’s where we are in the process. That’s the hand we’ve been dealt. This seems to be the best use at the moment. And I do like, Robert, I appreciate you putting in the trigger that should this revert back, it’s back to the business district. If it doesn’t come to fruition, change hands, or whatever, that’s the kind of protection that it needs. Robert Varnell: You know just remember that the Council can cancel and change any PUD. But this one includes an extra level. Alma Dotson: They are nice and clean. The ones in Knoxville, so they’re not near a historic neighborhood OK #1. #2 I just feel totally different about it. No, it’s not the churches, it’s the church that represents the neighborhood of all the people that are there, and one of the things that we’re working very hard to open to the city, to listen to the people in that community rather than just things happen o them. And after this vote, it’s done. There’s nothing that can be said or undone. And here again, they’re at a loss because there was a number input. Yes, we try to encourage people to come to these meetings, but it isn’t fair, is it? Really right, all for the sake of money. And I mean I’m a businessperson myself, and you're going to get it, you’re going to make a profit if you’re fair. If you’re good, if you’re kind and those moral attributes seem to leave us, every day because we’re all about greed and making money. And that’s just where I stand. Maryl Elloitt: May I say that I agree with that? But I will vote yes on this because of the points that you’ve made. I do understand, I wish where Two Brother’s place went, we could have had a nice drugstore or a grocery store. I wish we had something like that downtown instead of having it relieved. They’re leaving like the CVS that was down past the village has left, but they’re not asking to come there, it was Two Brothers, who wanted to come there, and they have done a good job, and it didn’t detract from the neighborhood. Bill Estes: And what was built on 1st St six months later? Robert Varnell: Half a dozen townhomes, $300,000 down, was on 1st St, not 100 yards from the property line. Somebody came in and invested quite a bit of money. Bill Estes: Maryl and I were both against that at the BZA. You know now I will rebut this. I do think it’s not over. However, we vote today. The City Council has to vote on it, and so, anybody in the neighborhood that’s not pleased, I represent the 2nd district. Avery and Ken represent the second district. Everybody else is pretty well. Listen, you know I think this gives staff time to clean it up and get it as tight as you can to the requirements in the changes in the project are recommended here. It’s pretty ugly now. This is a much better use; it is a transition area. This is just one of those gray areas and it’s an improvement. You know that’s how I feel and I’m speaking for myself. I’m going to vote for it. It took me a while to get there. You guys know I was against this until I came in and met with them. And they came to council, and we talked about it, and they made a lot of changes and said OK now commercial. Oh, we will protect this, we’ll protect the neighborhood. This is a huge, huge, Robert, could you explain to us how much more this protects the neighborhood than the Commercial Hwy they originally asked for? A huge improvement here. Robert Varnell: Well, yeah, so no gas stations, no auto repair shops. There’s, you know, you can’t sell mobile homes or have a large type of retail place like that kind of stuff. And then, but it does still allow restaurants and residential living if it’s above the 1st floor. It does allow a lot of positive components in redevelopment when we get to that point, whenever that may be. But at this point, we tried to thread the needle and as he said, they’ve been under lease for 2 years. So, we are trying to see where it lands, and as you all know I recommend against the commercial highway request. I did and still would stand by that. That was the correct call. Bill Estes: And you’ve changed your mind? The city staff changed their mind on… Robert Varnell: Well, you know, when you have the ability to add more protection. That’s still in the long run, achieves what the neighborhood and the downtown community wants then you get a use right now, that’s where you go. Bill Estes: And I appreciate Alma bringing up what’s called the SAP, the Small Area Plan that’s going through with College Hill now. It’s not dissimilar, but it’s not the same as what City Fields did and started and showed us the way. In Blythe, OK, so the same thing is now taking place in College Hill. The same thing is going to take place in South Cleveland. You know there are City planners and Robert, Jonathan, if I say something wrong, there’s like 5 unique gateway neighborhoods to the downtown and each one is going to get ASAP, right? Rober Varnell: Yes Bill Estes: So, Blythe was done for us by an outsider, I think the city has seen the success of that. They hired the right guy, and now they’re going to College Hill next. I don’t think the city would be for something and these are professionals. I’m not. I don’t think the city would be for something like this if it were going to hurt the SAP for College Hill. In the short, medium, or long term. And this has been difficult for me just to be honest, I’ve got, but we’ve got to make a decision you got to make that call so. Tricia Pennington: We have a motion and a second. Joel, would you call the roll?  Blake Allison made a motion to approve the request by Phoenix Investors, LLC for consideration of an ordinance to zone about 3.36 acres, more or less of property located 455 Inman Street from CBD Central Business District to PUD 52 and includes Tax Map 057D Group E Parcel 020.00 with the following conditions. Black aluminum fence along Inman. And 75 feet along Bates. Move the entrance away from Inman Transportation to advise. A continuous hedge around the perimeter in concordance with CBD standards, including the 35-foot shade tree requirement, adding Green Giant or Evergreen trees spaced 10 feet apart along Inman and 75 feet of Blythe, seconded by Bill Estes. The motion passed 6-0. Yes – 6 No – 1 Absent – 2 b. request by Barry Clark for consideration of a Plan of Service for about 9 acres, more or less, for property located at Benton Pike NE and includes Tax Map 050N Group B Parcel 009.00. Robert Varnell: Yeah, and while I'm up here, I'm just going to talk about the planning, service annexation, and zoning. That way you can look at each of those items independently as you vote, but you hear all at once from me. The plan of service? Pretty straightforward sewers at the front of the property waters at the front and at the very back end of the property. I'll show you right here, so. here's the Whirlpool facility. It's right at the end, right across the street, about almost 10 acres right there, backs up to a PUD here. And this is a kind of doggy daycare facility right there. That's in the county and got Whirlpool across the street. The applicant is requesting to build. This is an updated site plan versus what's in your packet. I got it today. It is based on staff comments. You know it ends up being more than the 50 units I put in the PUD, but they are also setting aside approximately 4 acres of open space out of the 9, so I think the intention is you know they didn't come forward with the 8 units together and seven units together and all this and I said, you know, a lot of people here that's keep it 4 and here's why. And so, we had a good discussion on it, including sidewalks right away, width and those things. They also added, at my request, the sidewalk along Benton Pike at the front of the property. That's key to me because that gives me the ability to write grants and connect to it. That's a good thing. So that's more important to me than the internal and I know saying that on the record, but it is. From a plan of service standpoint, our biggest question is usually the utilities. They're saying 0. So, you know from the planning service standpoint. Otherwise, every department was comfortable with it. We got no negative comments there. The annexation is always a positive for the city that if it's not growing, it's dying. So, annexations are always a positive. The PUD will need a slight amendment based on the unit count. I don't know that when we get to engineering that they'll actually be able to end up with this many. There are some wetlands in the area and things like that. So, we'll see. But staff would recommend getting to the cap that they're at here and then it'll decrease from there, I'm sure. So, any comments on those items from me? Blake Allison made a motion to approve the request by Barry Clark for consideration of a Plan of Service for about 9 acres, more or less, for property located at Benton Pike NE and includes Tax Map 050 N Group B Parcel 009.00, seconded by Jamie Creekmore. The motion passed 7-0. Yes – 7 No – 0 Absent – 2. c. request by Barry Clark for consideration of a resolution to annex about 9 acres, more or less, for property located at Benton Pike NE and includes Tax Map 050N Group B Parcel 009.00. Bill Estes made a motion to approve the request by Barry Clark for consideration of a resolution to annex about 9 acres, more or less, for property located at Benton Pike NE and includes Tax Map 050N Group B Parcel 009.00, seconded by Alma Dotson. The motion passed 7-0. Yes – 7 No – 0 Absent – 2 d. request by Barry Clark for consideration of an ordinance to zone about 9 acres, more or less, for property located at Benton Pike NE from unincorporated county to PUD 53 Zoning District and includes Tax Map 050N Group B Parcel 009.00. Bill Estes: Can a school bus turn around? Robert Varnell: The design of the site plan, obviously is preliminary, it would be a cul-de-sac. The road width meets our minimums. Would they go in there? I don’t know, often times they just stop at the front. Bill Estes: So, give me linear feet from the back to the front. Robert Varnell: I don’t have it, but it is… Black Allison: 50-ft right of way? It’s 50 Bill Estes: It’s going to be in the city. We don’t think buses will drive down there? Robert Varnell: Most of the time they stop at the front of the neighborhoods, we see. Bill Estes: So, being a PUD, could we put a shelter up for the students? Robert Varnell: It should be in there. Usually, it's with the cluster mailbox and the off-to-the-street parking Bill Estes: Just double-check. Robert Varnell: We will make sure of that one. If the language is out, then it’s because we changed the format, but I will make that. Basically, I’ve changed formats and we had to retype everything that probably just got left out, my apologies. And if you want to also make a comment if you’re comfortable with the unit count, I put it at 50 because that’s what I was told originally. Clearly, they’re going to attempt to get more. I don’t know if they’ll get what they’re asking for, but I don’t know. Jamie Creekmore made a motion to approve the request by Barry Clark for consideration of an ordinance to zone about 9 acres, more or less, for property located at Benton Pike NE from unincorporated county to PUD 53 Zoning District and includes Tax Map 050N Group B Parcel 009.00. The motion passed 7-0. Yes – 7 No – 0 Absent – 2 e. request by Morgan Lane for consideration of an ordinance to amend PUD 37 site plan to create 44 units off of Minnis Road NE. Robert Varnell: I don’t have the aerial in this PowerPoint for some reason, that’s my fault. This was added late to the agenda, but it was applied for on time, I just didn’t somehow find it. But, the request, I am not recommending changing the maximum unit count. This is just an adjustment from what their original site plan showed. Which has another phase of development that will take place here. This just had a single line running, but because of the driveway requirements and the access and the way that engineering and transportation and planning staff worked with the applicant. He decided this might be a better-fit site plan-wise for now and then we’ll go to the other phase when he gets there. But we’re not changing the maximum unit count or any of the language in the PUD. We’re just changing the site plan to address what he's trying to achieve today. This was previously approved back in 2022. Bill Estes made a motion to approve the request by Morgan Lane for consideration of an ordinance to amend PUD 37 site plan to create 44 units off of Minnis Road NE, seconded by Jamie Creekmore. The motion passed 7-0. Yes – 7 No – 0 Absent – 2 Chairman’s Report: No Report Director’s Report: No Report Adjourn 7:30 P.M.