Board of Zoning Appeals

1 REGULAR MEETING OF THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS 2 City Council Chambers 3 300 Park Avenue 4 Falls Church, Virginia 22046 5 Thursday, June 14, 2012 6 7:30 p.m. 7 8 1. CALL TO ORDER: 9 10 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Open the meeting of the June 14, 2012, Board of 11 Zoning Appeal's meeting and ask for a roll call. 12 13 2. ROLL CALL: 14 15 RECORDING SECRETARY: Mr. Stoodley. 16 (No response.) 17 RECORDING SECRETARY: Mr. Castillo. 18 MR. CASTILLO: Here. 19 RECORDING SECRETARY: Mr. Williamson. 20 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Here. 21 RECORDING SECRETARY: Mr. Calabrese. 22 MR. CALABRESE: Here. 23 RECORDING SECRETARY: Mr. Krasner. 24 MR. KRASNER: Here. 25 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Okay. Thanks. 26 I would in light of the fact -- well, first of all let me say welcome to our 27 two newest members. To my left is David Calabrese, Calabrese, so welcome to the 28 Board, and to my right is Brent Krasner. Welcome to the Board. 29 MR. KRASNER: Thank you. 30 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Thank you both for your service to the City of Falls 31 Church and this Board. 32 MR. KRASNER: Thank you. 33 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Moving on, I would like to ask if in the interest of 34 the fact that Mr. Krasner has to leave at approximately 8 or 8:15, if we could -- 35 if I could ask for a motion to move Old Business up to Item 2 in our agenda in 36 order for us to have a full Board or three members to actually hear this matter. 37 MR. CALABRESE: So moved. 38 MR. KRASNER: Second. 39 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Okay. 40 MR. BOYLE: You guys got this down. Outstanding. 41 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: All right. So we will move -- we'll move old 42 business up and cover that right now. 43 RECORDING SECRETARY: Sorry. We need a voice vote on that motion. 44 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Thank you. 45 All in favor? 46 (A chorus of "ayes."). 47 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Any opposed? 48 (No response.) 49 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Okay. So moved. 50 51 7. OLD BUSINESS: 52 Variance application V1528-12 (MUNIS #20120309) by Falls Church Investments 53 LLC, to allow signage on the second floor of the building facade or above the 54 second floor windows, for second floor tenants on premises known as 101 East 55 Annandale Road, RPC #53-108-003 of the Falls Church Real Property records, zoned OD 56 Official Design/B-3 General Business split, said property owned by Falls Church 57 Investments, LLC. 58 MINUTES OF THE 14 JUNE 2012 MEETING OF THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS APPROVED 22 FEBRUARY 2013  59 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: All right. Well then, we've got Old Business to 60 cover and I would like to ask if anybody will be making -- giving any information 61 to the Board tonight that comes forward to be sworn in or you can rise where you 62 are. 63 (Witnesses sworn.) 64 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: If you want to come forward as well and sign in. 65 And if we can hear staff. 66 MR. BOYLE: Mr. Chair, this may not be in regard to the agenda item so did 67 we want comments from the public or the agenda item first? Maybe ask the nature of 68 the business. 69 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Could you repeat that please. 70 MR. BOYLE: Maybe ask the nature of the business. I don't believe this 71 party is associated with the agenda item. 72 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Okay. Well, then we'll wait. We'll try to get 73 through Old Business first. I appreciate you signing in. 74 MR. PARKER: Okay. 75 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Is someone here that is going to be -- somebody on 76 the variance application for Falls Church Investments? 77 MR. RAMINPOUR: Yes. 78 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Okay. We decided to move that forward in the agenda 79 if you want to step forward. 80 MR. RAMINPOUR: Wonderful. Sure. 81 I may not be as ready as I thought I would be. 82 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: We're trying to be accommodating. So we have more 83 than three members present. 84 MR. RAMINPOUR: I see. 85 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: And so if you want to sign in, if you would, and 86 then stand so I can swear you in. 87 MR. RAMINPOUR: Sure. 88 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Okay. Are there any other members, anyone else in 89 the audience who's going to be presenting information about this matter tonight? 90 MR. RAMINPOUR: There are potentially three witnesses who we'll be 91 presenting. 92 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Let's go ahead and stand and be sworn. 93 (Witnesses sworn.) 94 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: So with that, let's start with a report from staff 95 on this matter. 96 MR. BOYLE: Mr. Chair, I believe this item was originally scheduled, the 97 previous meeting was continued forward in the hopes that additional members would 98 be here. 99 This involves an application for a variance to permit signage on a second 100 floor of a building. Our sign code is pretty straightforward. No signs are 101 permitted above the bottom of the second story sill. 102 This Board has recently heard one or more applications on a similar topic 103 and I would say that in discussions with the Planning Director we feel that this 104 particular section of Code probably is going to be revised to permit this very 105 thing but the timeline is not conducive to their plans with the building. We've 106 been very pleased with the investment that they've made in that structure and I 107 think it was viewed as a critical piece of their getting tenants back into the 108 building. 109 As we've been looking at other -- other commercial places in town, the 110 original intent of this section was to permit or to prevent a blight of signs. And 111 as we've seen variances in the past to allow second story signs, signs to the 112 second story sill, as long as this Board has placed controls on, you know, the 113 dimensions and the illumination of them, we've found that they can be very 114 compatible with the adjacent properties. 115 So I think having seen the ones go in and been very well received by the 116 abutting property owners or the citizens, we have a directive to actually strike MINUTES OF THE 14 JUNE 2012 MEETING OF THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS APPROVED 22 FEBRUARY 2013 117 this piece of the Code and make it a by-right item but this matter is before you 118 tonight because we have no recourse other than a variance to permit the signage 119 that the applicant is looking for. 120 So with that I think I'll defer to the applicant's presentation and your 121 questions. 122 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Please state your name and then begin your 123 presentation. 124 MR. RAMINPOUR: My name is Amir Raminpour, an attorney for Falls Church 125 Investments, representing not only Falls Church Investments but also as the legal 126 counsel but as the -- as an owner as it's my family's business as well. 127 So I have a personal stake in this and I take it pretty personally. 128 As was so eloquently put, in talking with the City Economic Development, 129 talking with the City Planner, it is -- there is a plan to -- or there's been a lot 130 of talk at least to change the ordinance and do something that would allow for 131 second floor signage on buildings like this. And this is kind of a rare building 132 in and of itself. You don't see too many of these around. 133 In fact, in my search or my quest to try to find other example buildings, 134 I've only come across about a handful in the surrounding counties of these. Really 135 what it is, it's a two story retail center where you have a one story of retail and 136 then a second floor of what can be retail, like a mixed use. We have it sort of 137 designed as an office space. 138 And we've found as we've been contracting with some of the local real estate 139 agents and entertaining different offers from different tenants, that the tenants 140 that are coming in have all requested some sort of signage. They're not businesses 141 like a law firm per se that doesn't necessarily need a signage but you have 142 companies like Bay Business Accounting, which is a local City of Falls Church 143 business, you have Stathis Insurance, which is a local City of Falls Church 144 business. These are companies that would benefit from signage that are 145 specifically requesting to have some sort of signage on the second floor of the 146 building. 147 And when we first designed the building, we had envisioned some sort of 148 second floor signage because we actually had copied the building from an exact 149 replica from a building on Route 7 in Sterling, Virginia, in Loudoun County. We 150 actually had mimicked it almost exactly and they had second floor signage. So we 151 actually had built it so that it would actually work with that. And it was later 152 on down the road after we had actually even placed the wiring and the bolts for the 153 signage, we had to learn that at this time that's not allowed so hence the reason 154 we're here today. 155 What we're requesting specifically, and you might see it there on the 156 proposed signage diagram that we had drawn, is to have signage on the second floor 157 that is a maximum of 96 inches long, a height of about 12 inches. We're looking at 158 internally illuminated LED lights, three dimensional letterings. They would be of 159 white standard -- kind of standard lettering that you see in other parts of the 160 City. It's not going to be anything fancy, nothing bold. 161 It's not going to necessarily compete -- I mean, you might have something on 162 the first floor like Dunkin' Donuts, where they have, you know, everybody knows 163 Dunkin' Donuts' sign, or McDonald's, for example, it's yellow, it's bold, it's 164 bright. Those usually tend to be a little bit larger, they have their logo, 165 whether it be the golden arches, whatever it may be. 166 We're not looking for that for the second floor tenants. We're looking for 167 something a little bit more low key, not as large, all one coloring, single, you 168 know, it would just be white lettering. They would be -- and the letter style 169 would be Franklin Gothic Bold condensed, according to the proposed sign plan. 170 And in doing this we've come across as we're all aware that there is a 171 section in the Code which allows for a BZA variance. And so without further ado, 172 it states that no such variance shall be authorized by the Board unless it finds 173 these three things: A, being that strict application of the ordinance would 174 produce undue hardship relating to the property; 2, that the hardship is not shared MINUTES OF THE 14 JUNE 2012 MEETING OF THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS APPROVED 22 FEBRUARY 2013 175 generally by other properties in the same zoning district in the same vicinity; 176 and, 3, that the authorization of the variance will not be of substantial detriment 177 to adjacent property and that the character of the district will not be changed by 178 granting of the variance. 179 So just very briefly I'd like to go through those three and kind of give you 180 our input of how we feel that we meet these three criteria, that we feel that the 181 variance should be granted. And there's a lot of -- there's a lot of benefits for 182 the businesses, the local businesses in the City of Falls Church. There's the 183 economic benefits obviously for the City of Falls Church, and I'll touch on those 184 very briefly as well. 185 To start with, the strict application of the ordinance would produce undue 186 hardship to the property itself. The problem with this property, and we had 187 recently purchased it and it was previously owned by a gentleman by the name of 188 Lyman Kelly who had owned it for 30 years, and the problem with this property is 189 that it is -- it's not what we would think of a shopping center as a one story, it 190 is a two story retail center. So when you want to put tenants on a second floor 191 who want to come in and put their business on top of Dunkin' Donuts or put their 192 business on top of Caribbean Plate, which is one of the tenants who's present here 193 today, I have to be able to stand out as a landlord, what does my building offer 194 that a normal office space doesn't offer? 195 Okay. Because I have my own law firm, for example. Now why would I want to 196 come to this building and be on top of Dunkin' Donuts? I can be in a high-rise, 197 five story, six story building in Tysons Corner or somewhere else in the City of 198 Falls Church. Why would I want to put my business here with a lot of traffic, 199 possibly smells, trash, whatever it may be. So why would any office business, 200 office space tenant wish to put their business in this center? 201 And one of the things that we were trying to offer that kind of sets us 202 apart is the ability to have some sort of second floor signage. And for the most 203 part that's not an issue. Nobody else has that issue. I mean this is not a -- 204 there is not a second -- there is not a two story retail center anywhere else 205 except there's only one other one in the City of Falls Church, which happens to be 206 the Westwood. I believe it's the Westwood Center down closer next to Don Beyer 207 Volvo, on that side of West Broad Street. That's the only one in the City that has 208 that sort of same two story predicament that we happen to be in. 209 So it puts us in a situation, the hardship for us is that we can't -- we're 210 in a situation where I cannot lease out the second floor to an office tenant, law 211 firm, or accounting firm, or even an insurance company or some of these business 212 that would benefit from having some sort of second story signage because either 213 they need it or quite frankly they can go down the street, pay that $23 a square 214 foot for the office space and be in a Class A building. 215 So it's something unique where we're trying to offer some sort of second 216 floor signage that we can bring in those tenants that really that need that second 217 floor, that need that kind of signage, that needs that promotional factor, that 218 need that sort of advertising. 219 It's a hardship for us being in the City of Falls Church, mostly because if 220 you go anywhere else in the surrounding counties, Loudoun County allows it. 221 Fairfax County allows it. Specifically, City of Fairfax allows it. 222 And what I brought, if you don't mind me approaching, I have a perfect 223 example from the City of Fairfax. I have a few copies here that I brought. This 224 is a great example from the City of Fairfax. And you can see there, it's 3955 225 Chain Bridge Road. That's directly in the heart of the City of Fairfax. And I 226 happened to come across it on my way to the courthouse the other day. And you can 227 see in this picture, first floor is a Potbelly, it's a retail, it's sandwich shop. 228 And then you see on the second floor is an office space very similar to what we 229 have here in the City of Falls Church. And right on the top there, it says 230 Greenspun and Shapiro, which is a very well known law firm. 231 So the hardship for us not only is that nobody else in the City has to kind 232 of -- no other landlord or owner of office space has to deal with this sort of MINUTES OF THE 14 JUNE 2012 MEETING OF THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS APPROVED 22 FEBRUARY 2013 233 situation as we do but other landlords and other land property owners in 234 surrounding areas don't have to deal with this because they can put signage on the 235 second floor of their buildings if they so chose. 236 And this is a great example because you got the retail and you have the 237 office space on top but it's also a great example of the kind of design that we're 238 doing. You see the Greenspun Shapiro sign is not necessarily trying to compete 239 with the PotBelly sign. This one is like a brass lettering, smaller than the 240 Potbelly sign, uniform in color, uniform in design, doesn't have any sort of logo, 241 it's very elegant, goes in nice with the building. But it kind of stands out from 242 the rest and it shows that, hey, this is Greenspun Shapiro, which if you're 243 familiar, it's a well-known firm. And if I was there in my firm I would have asked 244 for the same thing. I would have said, that's awesome, that's great. Especially 245 on Chain Bridge Road. Everybody comes by, everybody sees it. 246 So it's tough for us in that regard because now we can't as a property 247 owner, I'm in a situation where I can't compete necessarily with the owner of this 248 building because he can offer his tenants something that I can't. 249 Same thing goes with in Loudoun County, same thing in the Town of Vienna. 250 MR. KRASNER: I don't mean to be interrupt, I don't know if zoning in other 251 jurisdictions necessarily is valid to compare. I mean, I think the way we'd 252 normally be comparing is within the City. I mean there are other jurisdictions 253 that may allow all types of things. 254 MR. RAMINPOUR: Right. 255 MR. KRASNER: That we wouldn't allow for one reason or another. So I think 256 it's more germane to keep the comparison within the City to other properties 257 situated within the City under the same zoning ordinance. 258 MR. RAMINPOUR: I don't disagree with you. I agree with you 100 percent. I 259 think that the point that I'm -- 260 MR. KRASNER: I understand. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt. 261 MR. RAMINPOUR: And I'd like to touch on that too, the hardship that we're 262 feeling in the City. I think that comes from the comparison that we have to or the 263 competition that the landowner has to deal with in terms of trying to deal with 264 other office spaces. 265 Other office spaces in the City of Falls Church don't have to deal with a 266 Potbelly on the first floor. They don't have to deal with the foot traffic. They 267 don't have to deal with the smells. They don't have to deal with the parking 268 issues that we have to deal with. 269 And so because of that, I'm struggling as a landowner to find office space 270 tenants that are willing to come into this building. 271 MR. CALABRESE: If I can ask a clarifying question along those lines. 272 Are you saying you've had requests from tenants for the signage or this is 273 your experience from -- 274 MR. RAMINPOUR: We've actually had requests from tenants for the signage. 275 And a great example would be Stathis Insurance. I'm not sure if anybody is 276 familiar with Stathis. He's been in the City for many years. 277 His contract with Nationwide Insurance actually requires him to have some 278 sort of signage that says Nationwide Stathis Insurance. That's his contract with 279 Nationwide. He's required to have that. 280 So we've given him a lease, and said, okay, you have a lease. Somehow or 281 another we're have to find you a way we're going to have some signage so you're not 282 in breach of contract with Nationwide Insurance. His only other option would be to 283 not pay 22 or 23 dollars a square foot but he's in a situation where, okay, to get 284 signage, he would actually have to rent a retail space on the first floor of the 285 shopping center and pay almost, you know, 150 percent more than what he's paying 286 right now, which almost prices him out of the market. Instead of paying $20 a 287 square foot or 21 which is about what he's paying, he'd have to pay anywhere from 288 30 to 35 dollars a square foot. 289 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Let's hold off further questions until the applicant 290 is done with his presentation. If you can try to move to -- MINUTES OF THE 14 JUNE 2012 MEETING OF THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS APPROVED 22 FEBRUARY 2013 291 MR. RAMINPOUR: We'll try to move a little bit faster. 292 But Stathis Insurance is a great one. He can come up and speak for himself 293 and tell you that regard. 294 So some of the issues I wanted to talk about were, none of them competing 295 with other office spaces in the City of Falls Church, trying to compete with 296 surrounding counties. 297 And the second part is to the analysis that the hardship is not shared 298 generally by other properties in the same zoning district and I think that's 299 relatively clear. I think we can all agree that to the best of my knowledge there 300 is only one other property in the City of Falls Church, in the entire City even 301 that has this kind of two story retail center make up. Nobody else has it so I 302 think it's, it's in my opinion, I think it's safe to say that at least in the 303 surrounding areas that I see, whether it be on Annandale Road or on the Lee Highway 304 part or even on West Broad Street, there is nobody else that even has something 305 similar to this. Like I said, in the surrounding counties I think I've come across 306 five of these types of buildings. It's a rare bird. 307 So I think it's safe to say it's definitely not shared by other office 308 spaces, other office buildings. They definitely don't have that kind of issue. 309 And we feel that in the third point that we want to hit is that the 310 authorization of the variance will not be of substantial detriment to the adjacent 311 property and that the character of the district will not be changed by granting of 312 the variance. 313 I think that the key for us in granting this variance is the design of the 314 lettering. I think that it has to be tasteful. I don't think it should be loud 315 colors. I don't think there should be neon lights. There shouldn't be some sort 316 of, you know, block-type signage, you know, or box sign, you know, with fluorescent 317 lights behind it. It needs to be something like we see in this photo here, 318 something very tasteful, something that blends into not only the building but also 319 the surrounding adjacent properties. 320 So we feel that it wouldn't be a substantial detriment. I think from the 321 neighbors that I've talked to, surrounding tenants, surrounding business owners, 322 surrounding landowners, whether it be -- on every side of the street from the 323 building, everybody is excited for the building. They're excited to see the 324 redevelopment of this building that was originally built in the 50s and had been 325 sitting there for almost 50 years untouched and then it caught fire. So from the 326 City to the tenants to the local residents, everybody is happy that we're 327 redeveloping the area. We're trying to generate some economic development. We're 328 trying to generate business. 329 And I think from a practical standpoint we need to be able to -- we really 330 have to focus on the economic development of this. Aside from the BZA 331 requirements, I'll put this aside for one second. There are -- there's a lot of 332 competition out there, let me tell you right now. And I think I calculated there 333 is about, in Arlington County, in terms of office space and this is available 334 square footage of office space, in Arlington County alone is 4.6 million square 335 feet of office space currently available. That's a lot. I have -- 336 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: If you could make maybe one or two more points 337 relative to the variance application, that would be great. 338 MR. RAMINPOUR: Sure. 339 And I think the numbers for, I don't see them here right now, I think the 340 numbers for Tysons Corner are very similar. You go down Route 7, you go down Old 341 Chain Bridge Road, anywhere, you see lease signs everywhere. It's very 342 competitive. 343 And so through my conversation with Becky Witsman from the Department of 344 Economic Development, whoever it may be, and the City Planner, everybody is behind 345 us because they want to see some economic development. I think the citizens of the 346 City of Falls Church and the residents want to see economic development. Everybody 347 is kind of pushing for it. 348 We want to see growth. We don't want to see higher taxes obviously and this MINUTES OF THE 14 JUNE 2012 MEETING OF THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS APPROVED 22 FEBRUARY 2013 349 is one of the way we can not only keep the businesses that we have in the City of 350 Falls Church but try to entice other businesses into the City of Falls Church. 351 It's really the small business that really generates and helps pump the local 352 economy. Thank you. 353 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Thank you very much. 354 MR. BOYLE: Mr. Chair, if I might. 355 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Please. 356 MR. BOYLE: The Board should have in its pack a report from the 357 Architectural Advisory Board, the meeting minutes. Probably this is the cover 358 page. 359 The AAB heard this matter for the purpose of making a recommendation to the 360 BZA at their May 2nd meeting. The reverse of that meeting summary is a set of 361 recommendations that the Architectural Advisory Board made to the BZA. 362 Does everyone have that? 363 MR. KRASNER: Yeah. 364 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Yes. 365 MR. BOYLE: And just in summary they recommended approval with conditions 366 which I think is in keeping with the Board's power under the Code. In addition to 367 the variance section, the conditional variances portion under the sign code in 48- 368 1297, Paragraph F, where variances for signs are treated a little differently than 369 variances for other commercial or residential properties. It's not a question of 370 dimensions so much as can it be approved with conditions. 371 So in your deliberation I'd ask you to consider the Architectural Advisory 372 Board's recommendation with their conditions as you ponder whether or not to 373 approve this. 374 Lastly, you have a letter of recommendation from Becky Witsman in your 375 packet of information also. 376 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Thank you. And would you also see to it that this 377 photograph that was distributed is entered into the record. 378 MR. BOYLE: Yes. 379 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Any questions for the applicant? 380 MR. KRASNER: I just have one question and maybe Mr. Boyle can answer it. 381 Other than the location of the signage, do the signs conform to the rest of 382 our sign ordinance? 383 MR. BOYLE: Yes. 384 MR. KRASNER: Okay. 385 MR. RAMINPOUR: Did the Board wish to hear from Peter Stathis or any further 386 tenants? 387 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: I'll ask for further comment. 388 MR. RAMINPOUR: Okay. 389 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Go ahead. 390 MR. CASTILLO: One question. So will the --I don't recall the dimensions 391 you were discussing, 12 by -- did you say 97 -- 392 MR. RAMINPOUR: 96. 393 MR. CASTILLO: 96. Will those signage figures and lighting and other things 394 be part of the lease with the tenants? 395 MR. RAMINPOUR: That's an excellent question and, yes, they will be part of 396 the lease. We have part of the lease is the way we've been doing it is like an 397 Exhibit D as an attachment to the lease, it's incorporated into the lease and it's 398 a signed criteria which says, if granted, you can have a sign, we have to approve 399 it and it has to meet, you know, this criteria. 400 And we're hoping, it can be this criteria, it could be a criteria that the 401 Board says, well, we don't like 96, we like 94 inches long, or however it may be. 402 But it would be a criteria that conforms with this and every single tenant has to 403 meet that criteria. 404 Not only that but they would have to get approval on the sign from the City 405 before they can actually put it up. That's my understanding. So even if there is 406 a criteria that's set, we'll approve the 12 inch lettering, you know, white with MINUTES OF THE 14 JUNE 2012 MEETING OF THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS APPROVED 22 FEBRUARY 2013 407 LED, something very elegant, something very tasteful, that's part of the lease and 408 they also have to get -- being that it will be part of the variance, they would 409 also have to get approval from the City as well. 410 I don't know, does that answer your questions? 411 MR. CASTILLO: The answer -- the main question is would we see -- excuse me. 412 What I was initially wondering is we've had other sign variance issues where a 413 particular company with a particular corporate logo or look runs afoul of the 414 general dimensions that might be permitted under the Code. And so let's say, this 415 is implausible, but Dunkin' Donuts wanted to put an upstairs store there and we 416 have a particular Dunkin' Donuts logo where Nationwide might have particular colors 417 that Nationwidesuses. 418 MR. RAMINPOUR: Okay. 419 MR. CASTILLO: And particular graphics. In other words, it's a distinct, 420 it's not just setting up the generic letters into whatever name the company is but 421 it's a more specialized spoke sign for the particular tenant that you have. 422 So I guess my question is would the -- are the tenants coming in to the 423 lease knowing what signage they'll be permitted. Are we granting -- provided they 424 stay within the bounds of what it is that we're allowing, would we have to see them 425 or is this a blanket authorization for them to proceed such that we don't need to 426 have any further process for any individual tenant? 427 And I guess the third question is if somebody did want to go outside the 428 parameters of what we're permitting here, would they be able to do so? Because 429 both as a matter of the lease and as a matter of going down the road, what 430 individualized -- let's say your law firm with its particular letterhead were to -- 431 MR. RAMINPOUR: Right. 432 MR. CASTILLO: -- move into town, contribute to the development here, you 433 might want to have a particular sign as opposed to something that just is -- 434 MR. RAMINPOUR: Sure, sure. 435 MR. CASTILLO: So I'm trying to think ahead to situations that might be 436 coming down the road. 437 MR. BOYLE: Actually I think I can respond. Staff would probably intercept 438 that before it even got to the property owner. The Board, if it chooses, will 439 approve tonight the location of the sign which would be above the second story 440 sill. The dimensions and what have you are still subject to Code. So if any of 441 the tenants came in and said, all right, we have our variance for the second story 442 but we want to exceed the number of signs or dimensions, then they would be back 443 here individually for a variance to the dimensions. 444 So the Board tonight is being asked to approve the simple variance for 445 locating the signs above the second story sill. If that's granted, then the 446 tenants would come in probably with conditions set in the lease that would have to 447 conform to Code or we would bring them back here for dimension variances. 448 MR. CALABRESE: So is our vote conditional, what we're voting on is 449 conditional on that later decision, or are we just voting to say that you may build 450 above this height within this set of parameters and then nothing else would happen 451 if there was something beyond those parameters it would be back before this Board, 452 is that how the -- 453 MR. BOYLE: Yeah, that's how we would function. If you want to set that 454 condition as a reminder to the applicant, that would be perfect. And I think the 455 AAB spoke to that as well. They wanted the signs to conform very closely to what 456 was presented to them. 457 So, yeah, the matter before you is the fact that the location of a second 458 story sill requires a variance. They really haven't spoken to the dimensions of 459 the individual signs yet other than they understand they have to comply with Code. 460 So to Mr. Castillo's point, if a tenant did come in and say we have this 461 national logo we just have to have, if it didn't conform to the dimensions, we 462 wouldn't consider this variance as an approval to exceed dimensions or numbers or 463 things of that matter. They'd have to come back here for variances for something 464 like that. MINUTES OF THE 14 JUNE 2012 MEETING OF THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS APPROVED 22 FEBRUARY 2013 465 It would be great to set as a condition as the Code permits, set a condition 466 that these be set in the lease of the tenant so they know in advance. 467 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Okay. 468 MR. RAMINPOUR: I don't have a problem with that at all. I mean, like I 469 said, we want to make it look good. I mean, that's, you know, so I don't want a 470 bunch of, you know, McDonald's signs on the second floor and I don't want Dunkin' 471 Donut signs. 472 MR. KRASNER: They're going to have a consistent font. 473 MR. RAMINPOUR: That's right. My tenants are going to know on that second 474 floor, I mean if you don't like it, then you can go down the street, you know. If 475 you want to have second floor signage, they all have to be uniform. It has to be 476 consistent. I mean, it needs to be tasteful. I don't want a bunch of different 477 colors. That's going to be part of the lease. 478 If there's something that they do find some sort of wiggle room, then I 479 would agree with Mr. Boyle, then they'll have to come back in front of you to get a 480 specific variance in terms of whatever they want. 481 In terms of the criteria it's going to be very strict. I mean my leases are 482 30 pages, which is a pretty substantial size lease. It's like a book. And it 483 tells you exactly what you can or cannot do on that property, anywhere from the 484 kind of business to the hours you operate to the type of signage. It's very 485 strict. 486 MR. CASTILLO: Excuse me. So your lease might actually prohibit -- you 487 might have a tenant who gets a variance to do something other than what is spelled 488 out in the lease -- 489 MR. RAMINPOUR: That's correct. 490 MR. CASTILLO: -- that you would ultimately not approve? 491 MR. RAMINOUR: That's correct. Because the approval of the signage 492 according to the lease is in the sole and absolute discretion of the landlord. If 493 it looks goods or it's approved by you, then no. If it doesn't meet the landlord's 494 own personal criteria which we're setting out as this, then it's not going to get 495 approved. 496 MR. CALABRESE: So I can assume that in your lease you establish that the 497 tenant must abide by the City's Code? 498 MR. RAMINPOUR: That is correct. Of course. That is correct, yes. 499 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Okay. 500 Any other questions from the Board? 501 Okay. Does anyone else want to speak on this matter? 502 MR. STATHIS: I'd like to say a few things. My name is Peter Stathis. I've 503 been in the City for 29 years. 504 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Come forward and sign in and you can state your 505 name. 506 MR. STATHIS: I've been in the City 29 years and not only in the City but 507 the same building for 29 years. So that building is kind of like a little love of 508 mine. I've been a huge fan of it. I grew up there. I'm 47 years old, I started, 509 I was 18 years old in the insurance business. I feel like it's my building which 510 it's not unfortunately. They bought it before I could get my hands on it. 511 The signage is for me, I was downstairs smack in the center of the center 512 there and Mr. Sam and Mr. Amir made me a special deal for being there so long, they 513 asked me to go upstairs. I really want to go upstairs. I have the opportunity to 514 have the corner office of 29 and Annandale Road and I think it's going to be very 515 sharp and very attractive for my business and the way I've grown my business and 516 it's been just tremendous to be in the City of Falls Church, to me personally. 517 One of the things I learned in the hearing last week or last month when we 518 were here, the West End Shopping Center is the only thing that is similar to this 519 building. First of all it does not compare, in my opinion, to the beauty, the 520 layout, the expense that these people have gone through to make this building so 521 nice. Stone and stone everywhere, it just turned out, it's gorgeous. 522 One of the things, and you can help me out, is they have a monumental sign MINUTES OF THE 14 JUNE 2012 MEETING OF THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS APPROVED 22 FEBRUARY 2013 523 in the parking. That's one of the reasons why they don't have the upstairs 524 signage. With that said, and help me with the zoning here, I think you have to 525 have 8 feet setback which would be in the middle of our parking lot, not only give 526 up parking spots, it would also block the entrance ways and pathways of cars going 527 through the parking lot. So that's not possible to even have that type of sign in 528 this type of building. 529 MR. BOYLE: That's correct. The type of sign he's referring to is something 530 mounted on a pole that has multiple tenant listings. And the West End Shopping 531 Center actually has a variance for the number of tenants they can have on their 532 freestanding sign, the monument sign. The signs come with a setback from public 533 right of way and vehicle areas. There is nowhere on this property to situate one 534 of those. So their classic solution for not having second story signs isn't 535 available to them. 536 MR. STATHIS: And furthermore, because of those second story signs at that 537 location, each tenant has gone through and hung paper signs and neon signs and 538 cardboard signs and purple signs and blinking lights and attracting all kinds of 539 crazy things and you can get dizzy just looking at the shopping center from the 540 road. It's a nuisance. It's not good for business. 541 One thing I've asked Sam and Amir through this whole process is to make this 542 building a beautiful building. To make it all equal. Make all the tenants perform 543 equally. I don't want one sign with cursive writing or another sign with, you 544 know, Chinese writing. Nothing against Chinese or anything, or Greek, I'm Greek, a 545 Greek writing sign. We don't need any of that. We need uniform to make the 546 building be consistent with what these people have invested in this building. 547 And then I guess that's really what I had to say. I'm really proud of these 548 people. They've done a tremendous job and I'm really proud of Falls Church City 549 and I hope that we can make this happen. 550 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Thank you very much. 551 Any questions for Mr. Stathis? 552 MR. CALABRESE: Just a quick question and this may be to Mr. Boyle. 48-11 553 03 deals with corner lots. You mentioned, sir, you've on a corner. Being new to 554 the Board and the regulations, I just wanted to clarify the purpose of that section 555 and does that apply to a corner situation as it's being described here? 556 MR. BOYLE: Is this property a corner lot? 557 MR. CALABRESE: Yeah. It says that one of the prohibited signs would be 558 those as described in 48-11 03, corner lots and dealing with vision. 559 MR. BOYLE: Oh, yes. That's part of the complication of placing signs near 560 the street, is their open space is so close to the intersection, that I think if we 561 drew our vision triangle which is basically 25 feet from the point of the 562 intersection and connect those two, those two sides of the triangle, creates a 563 triangle, legs 25 feet long, nothing can be in there above 3 feet and below 10 feet 564 basically for view of pedestrians and vehicles. 565 MR. CALABRESE: This doesn't -- 566 MR. BOYLE: Yeah, we tried locating a place on the property that would 567 satisfy that plus the setback from public right of way and the allowable height 568 they have and I think probably once upon a time the road was narrower and there was 569 much more green space out in front of this building which is a problem we see on 570 Washington as well. So their parking lot is very close to the street, and, yeah, 571 that would be a potential vision obstruction. 572 MR. CALABRESE: Okay. 573 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Any other questions for Mr. Stathis? 574 Thank you, sir. 575 Would anyone else from the public care to speak on this matter? 576 Seeing none, I'll close it to the public and thank the applicant for his 577 presentation. 578 Any further questions for staff? 579 MR. CASTILLO: I'd just like to commend your presentation. We've seen 580 variance requests for signage that were much thinner and more cursory and you did a MINUTES OF THE 14 JUNE 2012 MEETING OF THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS APPROVED 22 FEBRUARY 2013 581 very professional job and I appreciate that. 582 MR. RAMINPOUR: Thank you. 583 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Thank you. 584 Seeing no questions for Mr. Boyle, I'll close the questioning period and 585 open it up to the Board for discussion or motion. 586 MR. KRASNER: I know I'm new in town but I'll just say based on what I've 587 heard, I think the argument regarding the uniqueness of having a two story retail- 588 commercial office space building is fairly rare in Falls Church City. The fact 589 that there is no room for a monument sign, freestanding sign, I think is relevant 590 in this matter. 591 And from an aesthetic point of view, I think the fact the signage would be 592 consistent, is one font and one color, I think is aesthetically pleasing and would 593 minimize sort of the visual effect as opposed to multiple logos and colors. 594 So if the Board is ready, I would support a motion to approve the variance 595 subject to the conditions of the Architectural Advisory Board and any other 596 conditions Board members would like to add onto that but I think at least those as 597 a starting point. 598 And I'm sorry, and the signage plan or the signage details he's provided, is 599 that part of his application? Are we approving that font and that size? 600 MR. BOYLE: No. No, only inasmuch as the AAB recommended that it be very 601 close to what was depicted. 602 MR. KRASNER: Fine. It's included in their conditions and again, subject to 603 the AAB conditions. 604 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Would you care to restate your motion formally. 605 MR. KRASNER: Sure. I apologize, since I'm new in town. 606 I'll put forth a motion to approve the variance before us tonight subject to 607 the conditions expressed by the Architectural Advisory Board in their memo to us 608 dated March 2, 2012, in their minutes, I'm sorry, of May 2, 2012. 609 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Thank you. Do I have a second? 610 MR. RAMINPOUR: Can we clarify the conditions? 611 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Mr. Krasner, would you care to restate the 612 conditions? 613 MR. KRASNER: These are the conditions that they listed here in the bullets? 614 MR. BOYLE: Yes, sir. 615 MR. CASTILLO: Could I just interject? 616 MR. KRASNER: Sure, please. 617 MR. CASTILLO: I think we have to make them. They're actually observations 618 rather than -- 619 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: We have to convert them. 620 MR. CALABRESE: Those are attributes of the building. 621 MR. KRASNER: So I guess the conditions would be -- I'll restate the motion. 622 I move that we approve the variance subject to the condition that the 623 signage is consistent with the detail that was provided as part of this application 624 regarding size, color, font; that the signage conform to, in all other respects 625 besides location, conform to the City sign ordinance. 626 And that may be sufficient. I don't know if anyone would like to add any 627 conditions in addition to that but those two I think -- 628 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Okay. 629 MR. CALABRESE: I have a question on the motion on the table, if it's in 630 order to ask a question. 631 Any of those dimensions, are those illustrative or are those that are in the 632 diagram, are those what is being proposed? 633 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Mr. Krasner, you're referring to this large drawing. 634 MR. KRASNER: The detail that was provided, right, as part of the 635 application. 636 MR. CALABRESE: That was illustrative I thought or was it -- 637 MR. KRASNER: I'm proposing that we condition it to be generally consistent, 638 you know, as far as what he's showing here. He's verbally testified that he would MINUTES OF THE 14 JUNE 2012 MEETING OF THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS APPROVED 22 FEBRUARY 2013 639 -- intends to do this but he's okay being tied to this condition. I like what I 640 see, I would move that it be a condition. 641 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: These are internally illuminated three dimensional 642 letters, letter style Franklin Gothic, bold condensed, 12 feet by 2 foot thickness. 643 MR. CASTILLO: Inches. 644 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Inches. Thank you. That would be a big sign. 645 Two inches thickness, basis is 78x23 Plexiglas, edges painted dark duranodic 646 bronze or similar. Okay. 647 MR. CASTILLO: I second. 648 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Okay. Roll call vote please. 649 Hold the roll call vote please. 650 Is there any discussion on the motion? 651 (No response.) 652 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Okay. Roll call vote please. 653 RECORDING SECRETARY: Mr. Williamson. 654 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Yes. 655 RECORDING CALABRESE: Mr. Calabrese. 656 MR. CALABRESE: Yes. 657 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Mr. Krasner. 658 MR. KRASNER: Yes. 659 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: And Mr. Castillo. 660 MR. CASTILLO: Yes. 661 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Okay. Motion passes. Your variance is approved. 662 Good luck. 663 MR. RAMINPOUR: Thank you gentlemen, appreciate it. 664 MR. KRASNER: I apologize to my new colleagues. I have a prior commitment 665 that I had before I knew I was going to be here tonight. So I have to run. I'm 666 glad I was able to participate in the discussion. I look forward to working with 667 you in the future. Like I said, I'm new, I'm learning, so feel free to help me 668 out. I'm an urban planner by training so I hope to bring a lot to the Board and 669 participate and bring expertise where I can. 670 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: You're welcome. Thank you. 671 (Mr. Krasner leaves meeting.) 672 673 3. PETITIONS: 674 675 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Okay. We had moved Old Business forward in the 676 agenda. I will now ask if there are any petitions from the public. 677 MR. MCARTHUR: I'm not sure where I would be. 678 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Can you please step forward. 679 MR. MCARTHUR: Yeah. I'm not sure where I fit in on this. It's just 680 basically I wanted to speak to rules governing the Board and the BZA. 681 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Please step forward. We want to make sure we hear 682 what you have to say so you can speak into the microphone, it would be helpful. 683 MR. MCARTHUR: Art McArthur from 1005 A Lincoln. And this is just a matter 684 concerning members of the Board and those that serve on the Board. 685 First I'd like to congratulate you, Mr. Castillo, for winning your election 686 on the School Board. But because of that there are a couple of stipulations in 687 here that do reflect the fact that you're now a paid member on another City Board, 688 that it does conflict with the rules for the BZA. So essentially saying that you 689 might have to pick one or the other Board. 690 So I bring this up, the City Attorney is not here so I'm just kind of 691 presenting it to the Board that as a member it looks to me, and I'd rather have an 692 attorney review it, but you can't serve on two boards at one time by the BZA 693 bylaws. So -- 694 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: I think what we'll do is -- 695 MR. MCARTHUR: Just figure out what that is and whatever decision is 696 rendered, I'm fine with it. I just wanted to bring that up. MINUTES OF THE 14 JUNE 2012 MEETING OF THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS APPROVED 22 FEBRUARY 2013 697 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Okay. Okay. Thank you. 698 MR. MCARTHUR: Thank you. 699 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Any other petitions? 700 (No response.) 701 4. NEW BUSINESS: 702 703 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Any New Business? 704 (No response.) 705 706 5. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: 707 Draft minutes: March 15, 2012 708 April 12, 2012 709 May 17, 2012 710 711 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Okay. Approval of minutes. 712 Okay. So we have three packets of minutes before us. We have March 15, 713 2012, April 12th, and May 17th. 714 So I would begin with the March 15th, March minutes. 715 (Discussion of the March 15, 2012, minutes.) 716 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Do I have a motion to approve the minutes of 717 Thursday, March 15, 2012? 718 MR. CALABRESE: So moved. 719 MR. CASTILLO: Second. 720 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: All in favor? 721 (A chorus of "ayes".) 722 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Okay. So moved. 723 We'll now look at the minutes, April 12, 2012. 724 (Discussion of the April 12, 2012, minutes.) 725 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Seeing none, is there a motion to approve? 726 MR. CALABRESE: Motion to approve. 727 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Is there a second? 728 MR. CASTILLO: Second. 729 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: All in favor? 730 (A chorus of "ayes".) 731 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: So moved. 732 Approval for the minutes for Thursday, April 12, 2012. 733 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: And finally the minutes of May 17, 2012. 734 (Discussion of the May 17, 2012, minutes.) 735 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Okay. Motion to approve the minutes of May 17, 736 2012, as presented. 737 MR. CASTILLO: I would move to approve these as presented with the documents 738 that were read into the record at that time. 739 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Yes, I agree. 740 Is there a second? 741 MR. CALABRESE: Second. 742 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: All in favor? 743 (A chorus of "ayes.") 744 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Approved. Okay. So the minutes of May 17, 2012, 745 along with the materials that were presented with the minutes. 746 747 6. OTHER BUSINESS 748 749 Introduction of two new BZA members: 750 Mr. David Calabrese 751 Mr. Brent Krasner 752 753 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: Item 6, Other Business. We introduced Mr. Calabrese 754 and Mr. Krasner earlier but I'll again say welcome to Mr. Calabrese. Nice to have MINUTES OF THE 14 JUNE 2012 MEETING OF THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS APPROVED 22 FEBRUARY 2013 755 you on the Board. 756 MR. CALABRESE: Thank you. 757 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: And that is our agenda unless the Board has any 758 other items they want to bring forth. 759 760 8. ADJOURNMENT: 761 762 MR. CASTILLO: Move to adjourn. 763 MR. CALABRESE: Second. 764 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: All in favor? 765 (A chorus of "ayes"). 766 VICE CHAIR WILLIAMSON: So moved. 767 MINUTES OF THE 14 JUNE 2012 MEETING OF THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS APPROVED 22 FEBRUARY 2013