Historic District Commission
Regular MeetingManistee, MI · June 6, 2013
Minutes
HISTORIC DISTRICT COMMISSION
Council Chambers, City Hall
70 Maple Street
Manistee, MI 49660
MEETING MINUTES
June 6, 2013
A Meeting of the Manistee City Historic District Commission was held on Thursday, June 6, 2013 at
3:00 p.m. in the Council Chambers, City Hall, 70 Maple Street, Manistee, Michigan.
Meeting was called to order at 3:14 p.m. by Chair Kracht.
ROLL CALL:
Members Present: Dave Carlson, Maria DeRee, T. Teena Kracht, John Perschbacher,
Members Absent: T. Eftaxiadis (excused), Jeremy Loveless, Mary Russell (excused)
Others: Mike Cnudde (335 River Street), Travis Alden (Main Street/DDA Director), Mark
Fedder (Manistee County Historical Museum) and Denise Blakeslee (Planning &
Zoning)
APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
MOTION by John Perschbacher, seconded by Maria DeRee that the Agenda be approved as prepared.
With a voice vote this MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
MOTION by John Perschbacher, seconded by Maria DeRee that the Minutes of the May 2, 2013
Meeting be approved
With a voice vote this MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY.
NEW BUSINESS:
None
City of Manistee Historic District Commission
Meeting Minutes June 6, 2013 Page 1
OLD BUSINESS
HDC-2012-07 Mike Cnudde, 335 River Street
Mike Cnudde has spoken with Travis Alden, Main Street/DDA Director about a release of funds for his
project at 335 River Street. The Commissioners were sent excerpts from the January 3, 2013 and
March 7, 2103 Meetings to assist in their review.
Mike Cnudde brought in photos that
showed how the inside ceiling matches
the height of the ceiling over the
entrance door. Mr. Cnudde spoke
about the attempt to remove the
adhesive behind the paint and that the
removal was damaging the brick and
mortar and that he spoke with Travis
Alden and Jon Rose about the situation.
Travis Alden said that Kelly Larsen was
in town during this time and looked at
the issue. He recalled that Kelly felt it
would do more harm than good to
remove the adhesive and that they should focus on the rest of the improvements.
The Commission discussed the project and photos were reviewed against the plan that was designed
by Kelly Larsen.
MOTION by John Perschbacher, seconded by Maria DeRee that the Historic District Commission
determined that the following items be addressed as follows for a Certificate of Compliance to be
issued for the project.
The applicant demonstrated that that the new interior tin ceiling was the same height as the
exterior ceiling over the entrance door. The applicant will not need to raise the exterior ceiling
over the entrance door.
Travis Alden will contact Kelly Larsen and request a recommendation on how the Commission
needs to address the adhesive. The Commission will abide by Ms. Larsen’s recommendation.
The Applicant is to add trim on the building that matches the design on the Revised Façade
Improvement plan dated 10/4/12. The trim needs to visually look like the plan which mimics
the trim on the building at 333 River Street. The Commission will allow the purple paint to
remain on the brick at the base of the building.
City of Manistee Historic District Commission
Meeting Minutes June 6, 2013 Page 2
A B C D E
F G
Remove trim piece
to match Design
A B C D E
Example of trim placement
Discussed with the applicant
F G
With a roll call vote this motion passed 4 to 0.
Yes: Perschbacher, DeRee, Carlson, Loveless, Kracht
No: None
City of Manistee Historic District Commission
Meeting Minutes June 6, 2013 Page 3
Travis Alden noted that while a Certificate of Appropriateness is required to apply for a Façade Grant,
there is nothing that requires a Certificate of Compliance be issued for the release of grant funds. They
will be reviewing the requirements over in the next few months.
HDC-2013-02 Joe Mathewson, 339 River Street
Joe Mathewson ran into a problem with his project at 339 River Street. Mr. Mathewson wanted to
remove the paint from the three brick columns on the front of the building exposing the brick. Upon
cleaning of the brick it was discovered that a silver roofing compound had been applied behind the
paint on these columns.
Mr. Mathewson does not want the brick to be painted and indicated he would leave the project
unfinished instead of painting these three columns. He has proposed to build a wooden “enclosure”
that would cover the brick which would be stained to match the work he has been doing to restore the
front of the building.
Jon Rose sent an email to SHPO asking if they could offer any assistance, guidance or suggestions. Mr.
McKay responded to the email as follows:
While Mr. Mathewson may well be “adamantly opposed to re-painting” the first floor brick, his proposed solution
(boxing in the piers) is entirely inappropriate in its own right. Concealing the historic brick behind paneling,
regardless of whether it can be removed in the future or not, will substantially alter the historic character of the
building and is inconsistent with the character of the Manistee historic district. The proposal is not consistent with
the Secretary of the Interior’s Standards for Rehabilitation and would not be approves as part of a Section 106 or
Tax Credit project review. There really are only three possibilities that are appropriate in this instance.
Option 1 is to leave the existing paint alone and allow it to remove itself “naturally.” This may be a slow process
but it will eventually happen. Given the nature and extent of the other working being undertaken at the property
I would suggest that this is the least desirable solution.
Option 2 is to continue to seek to identify a chemical paint stripper that will remove the existing paint layers
without damaging the brick. It is possible that the removal process may involve two different stripping systems,
one for the traditional paint itself and one for the silver roofing material (this is most likely aluminum rich roof
paint). It may be helpful to have a sample of the silver “paint” tested to determine its base chemical composition.
By knowing its true chemistry it will be easier to identify the most productive stripping agent(s). This approach
while the most historically appropriate is likely to be the most expensive, has the highest potential to do serious
and irreparable damage to the brick and in the end may be only moderately successful.
Option 3, which is quite frankly the least problematic solution, would be to simply repaint the existing painted
areas. While I do in general agree that painting masonry is the least preferable option, it doesn’t sound as if in
this case the new paint has even the slightest potential to do additional damage to the brick.
Had the existing paint come off of the brick willingly, stripping would clearly be the preferred solution. In this
case the bond between the roof paint and the brick seems to be suggesting the use of a different approach. In a
very real sense rehabilitation is about adapting to the conditions we encounter along the way and creating an
City of Manistee Historic District Commission
Meeting Minutes June 6, 2013 Page 4
acceptable all be it imperfect solution.
The Commission discussed Mr. McKay’s email and the project.
MOTION by John Perschbacher, seconded by Maria DeRee that the applicant can do any of the three
options recommended by Rob McKay, State Historic Architect for the project, the applicant will not be
allowed to box the brick with a wood enclosure under any circumstance.
With a roll call vote this motion passed 4 to 0.
Yes: Perschbacher, DeRee, Carlson, Kracht
No: None
PUBLIC COMMENTS AND COMMUNICATIONS CONCERNING ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA
None
CORRESPONDENCE
Commissioner Eftaxiadis sent an email relating to the discussion at the May 2, 2103 Historic District
Commission Meeting. A copy of the email is attached.
STAFF REPORTS
Travis Alden, DDA/Main Street Director – updated the Commission Main Street Quarterly
Meeting/Historic District presentation by Robb McKay; Rozmarek building; Winkler Block; Boathouse
Grill; H&K Electric is for sale.
Mark Fedder, Museum Director - Issued Permits for:
Zoelle Consignment & Boutique, 431 River Street – Projecting Sign and Window Signs Issued Permit
PHDC13-011
Maria DeRee, 389 River Street – Paint Colors for both transom and front entrance to upper floor
(beige) Issued Permit PHDC13-012
Margaret Diebel, 342 River Street – Awning and Signage Issued Permit PHDC13-013
MEMBERS DISCUSSION
City of Manistee Historic District Commission
Meeting Minutes June 6, 2013 Page 5
Commissioner Carlson spoke of the increase in interest in properties after the current improvements
to properties in the district.
The Next meeting of the Historic District Commission will be on Thursday, July 11, 2013 at 3:00 p.m. in
the Council Chambers, City Hall, 70 Maple Street.
ADJOURNMENT:
MOTION by Maria DeRee, seconded by Dave Carlson that the meeting be adjourned. Motion passed
unanimously.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 4:23 P.M.
MANISTEE HISTORIC DISTRICT COMMISSION
__________________________________________
Denise J. Blakeslee, Recording Secretary
City of Manistee Historic District Commission
Meeting Minutes June 6, 2013 Page 6
City of Manistee Historic District Commission
Meeting Minutes June 6, 2013 Page 7
Agenda
MANISTEE CITY HISTORIC DISTRICT COMMISSION
Meeting of Thursday, June 6, 2013
3:00 p.m. - Council Chambers, City Hall, 70 Maple Street,
Manistee, Michigan
AGENDA
I Call to Order
II Roll Call
III Approval of Agenda
At this time the Historic District Commission can take action to approve the June 6, 2013 Agenda.
IV Approval of Minutes
At this time Historic District Commission can take action to approve the May 2, 2013 meeting
Minutes.
V New Business
VI Old Business
HDC-2013-02 Joe Mathewson, 339 River Street
The Commission will be updated on the status of the project at 339 River Street.
At this time the Commission could take action if necessary relating to the project at 339 River
Street.
HDC-2012-07 Mike Cnudde, 335 River Street
The Commission will be updated on the status of the project at 335 River Street
At this time the Commission could take action if necessary relating to the project at 335 River
Street.
VII Public Comments and Communications concerning Items not on the Agenda
At this time the Chair will ask if there are any public comments.
1
HISTORIC DISTRICT COMMISSION
Council Chambers, City Hall
70 Maple Street
Manistee, MI 49660
MEETING MINUTES
May 2, 2013
A Meeting of the Manistee City Historic District Commission was held on Thursday, May 2, 2013 at 3:00 p.m. in
the Council Chambers, City Hall, 70 Maple Street, Manistee, Michigan.
Meeting was called to order at 3:04 p.m. by Chair Kracht.
ROLL CALL:
Members Present: Dave Carlson, Maria DeRee, T. Eftaxiadis, Teena Kracht, Jeremy Loveless, John
Perschbacher, Mary Russell
Members Absent: None
Others: Travis Alden(DDA/Main Street Director), Mark Fedder (Manistee County Historical
Museum) Steve Harold (Manistee County Historical Museum) and Denise Blakeslee
(Planning & Zoning) and others
APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
MOTION by Maria DeRee, seconded by Mary Russell that the Agenda be approved as prepared.
With a voice vote this motion passed unanimously.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
MOTION by Maria DeRee, seconded by Mary Russell that the Minutes of the April 4, 2013 Meeting be approved.
With a voice vote this motion passed unanimously.
NEW BUSINESS:
None
City of Manistee Historic District Commission
Meeting Minutes May 2, 2013 Page 1
OLD BUSINESS
None
PUBLIC COMMENTS AND COMMUNICATIONS CONCERNING ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA
None
CORRESPONDENCE
None
STAFF REPORTS
Denise Blakeslee, Recording Secretary – distributed H.A.M it Up! brochures to the Commissioners.
Commissioner Perschbacher entered the meeting.
MEMBERS DISCUSSION
None
Meeting Closed at 3:17 pm
WORKSESSION:
Training Exercise – Demolition by Neglect
Prior to the purchase of the Winkler Block Building at 312 River Street, staff had begun the work for the
Commission to determine if the deterioration of the building would qualify as Demolition by Neglect. Most of
the paperwork had been prepared for the Commission to begin the process when the bank accepted the offer
from Blue Fish.
The Historic District Commission has the authority under the Local Historic Districts Act (Act 169 of 1970) and
Chapter 1280 Historic District of the City of Manistee Codified Ordinance to require the owner to make
necessary repairs to avoid the loss of structures within the district. This is done under Demolition by Neglect
which is defined as follows:
"Demolition by Neglect" means neglect in maintaining, repairing, or securing a resource that results in
deterioration of an exterior feature of the resource or the loss of structural integrity of the resource.
Section 399.205 (11) of the Local Historic Districts Act and Section 1280.15 of the City of Manistee Codified
Ordinances reads:
City of Manistee Historic District Commission
Meeting Minutes May 2, 2013 Page 2
Upon a finding by a commission that a historic resource within a historic district or a proposed historic district
subject to its review and approval is threatened with demolition by neglect, the commission may do either of
the following:
(a) Require the owner of the resource to repair all conditions contributing to demolition by neglect.
(b) If the owner does not make repairs within a reasonable time, the commission or its agents may enter
the property and make such repairs as are necessary to prevent demolition by neglect. The costs of the
work shall be charged to the owner, and may be levied by the local unit as a special assessment
against the property. The commission or its agents may enter the property for purposes of this section
upon obtaining an order from the circuit court.
The Commission went through the exercise to have a better understanding of the process in the event that a
building in the district falls into a state of disrepair in the future. Staff had prepared a Powerpoint Presentation
of photographs of the building as well as a draft resolution for adoption if the Commission had determined that
the condition of the building constituted Demolition by Neglect.
Commissioner Eftaxiadis entered the meeting.
Discussion included how to contact owners of properties to prevent Demolition by Neglect; how Demolition by
Neglect is the last option for the Commission to protect resources; how to soften the process and promote a
better understanding of preservation; the availability of funds from DDA/Main Street (Façade Grants); the desire
to preserve our resources.
Travis Alden noted that the Corbels and Trim were installed today on Mike Cnudde’s building.
Discussion on the North Channel Outlet building.
The Next meeting of the Historic District Commission will be on Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 3:00 p.m. in the
Council Chambers, City Hall, 70 Maple Street.
ADJOURNMENT:
MOTION by Mary Russell, seconded by Maria DeRee that the meeting be adjourned. Motion passed
unanimously.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 4:17 P.M.
MANISTEE HISTORIC DISTRICT COMMISSION
__________________________________________
Denise J. Blakeslee, Recording Secretary
City of Manistee Historic District Commission
Meeting Minutes May 2, 2013 Page 3
VIII Correspondence
At this time the Chair will ask if any correspondence has been received to be read into the
record.
IX Reports
Main Street/DDA Director
Museum Curator
Museum Director
Community Development Director
X Members Discussion
At this time the Chair will ask members of the Historic District Commission if they have any
items they want to discuss.
XI Worksession
XII Adjournment
2
Joe Mathewson, 339 River Street – Photos showing condition of brick and attempt to remove paint.
2007 Photo - 339 River Street Building
Mr. Mathewson wanted to remove the paint from the three brick columns on the front of the building
exposing the brick. Upon cleaning of the brick it was discovered that a silver roofing compound had
been applied behind the paint on these columns.
Mr. Mathewson does not want the brick to be painted and would leave the project unfinished instead
of painting these three columns.
He has proposed to build a wooden “enclosure” that would cover the brick which would be stained to
match the work he has been doing to restore the front of the building.
Planning & Zoning
Community Development
231.398.2805
Fax 231.723-1546
MEMORANDUM www.ci.manistee.mi.us
To: Historic District Commissioners
From: Jon R. Rose, Community Development Director
Date: May 23, 2013
RE: Mike Cnudde, 335 River Street
Commissioners, Mike Cnudde has spoken with Travis Alden, Main Street/DDA Director about a release
of funds for his project at 335 River Street. This would require issuance of a Certificate of Compliance.
To assist the Commission in determining what if any items are remaining that need to be completed to
close out the request we are including excerpts from the January and March meeting minutes.
Excerpt from January 3, 2013 Meeting Minutes
335 River Street - Michael Cnudde
PHDC12-007 - Remove plywood, furring strips and tile from upper façade and brick columns on either
side of the storefront, repair, repoint, and paint all brick masonry following recommendations from the
Design Specialist, State Historic Preservation Office; Reconstruct wood cornice with brackets; Install
projecting sign (signage will be approved by Museum Director when applicant wishes to install a sign);
Install wood panels and trim on any areas of the storefront exposed by removing the plywood and tile;
Remove “bath tile” and paint brick to match upper brick; Any changes to the windows or door will
require approval from the Historic District Commission
During renovation it was discovered that there was not brick behind the plywood and tile. Kelly Larson,
Design Specialist from the State Historic Preservation Office was in town when it was discovered and she
revised plans which were presented to the Emergency Review Committee. On October 12, 2012 the
Emergency Review Subcommittee approved the following revised
Façade Improvements for 335 River Street as follows:
Install wood panels and trim (simple design, not overly
elaborate or detailed) on any areas of the storefront
exposed by removing the plywood and tile.
Height of recessed entrance to extend up to original ceiling
height (just below cornice) repair wood ceiling as needed.
All other recommendations for the façade outlined in the
design services package (dated May 15, 2012) are to
remain.
As shown on Revised Façade Improvements plan dated 10/4/12.
Applicant did not recess the entrance, wood panels and trim were not installed as shown on the
application; adhesive from the “Bath Tile” was not removed before the building was painted.
Commission asked that Jon Rose follow up with the applicant on the status of the project.
Excerpt from March 7, 2013 Meeting Minutes
“A” “B”
335 River Street – Mike Cnudde (PHCD12-007)
The contractor for Mr. Cnudde brought two choices of Corbels for the
building at 335 River Street.
The Commissioners discussed the two. Corbel “A” was two pieces and the
Commission decided that a combination of the outer bracket from Corbel “A”
with Corbel “B” was best.
Top will be shortened 1 ¼”so that it will protrude between ½” to 1” further
than Corbel “B”
Outer Bracket Corbel “A”/Corbel
Outer Bracket (Corbel “A”) will be extended so the bottom will be flush with the bottom of (Corbel “B”)
creating a combined Corbel “A/B”
The Commission discussed which corbels needed replacement and reviewed the application and the
Inspection Photo from the January Meeting.
MOTION by John Perschbacher, seconded by Maria DeRee that the Historic District Commission approve
the following:
The existing ten large corbels will be replaced with the new combined Corbel “A/B”
New trim piece is to be installed
under the small corbels to
remain similar to the adjacent
building.
Corbels and trim are to be
painted to match the small
corbels to remain on the
building.
With a roll call vote this motion
passed 6 to 0.
Yes: Eftaxiadis,
Loveless,
Perschbacher,
DeRee, Carlson,
Kracht
No: None
The Corbles and trim have been installed.
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