Historic Zoning Commission

CITY OF MURFREESBORO HISTORIC ZONING COMMISSION Regular Meeting March 21, 2017 3:30 PM, Council Chambers, City Hall I. Call to Order and determination of a quorum II. Approve Minutes of the Regular Meeting on February 21, 2017 III. New Business  H-17-005 – 550 East Main Street, Ken Stone- Requesting to: o 1. Demolish an existing detached garage and replacing it with a new detached garage o 2. Removing existing sunroom windows and replacing the space with three windows and wood siding o 3. Add a screened sunroom on the west side of the home where the existing porch is located IV. Staff Reports and Other Business V. Adjourn City of Murfreesboro Historic Zoning Commission Staff Comments Regular Meeting March 21, 2017 III. New Business: H-17-005 – 550 East Main Street, Ken Stone- Requesting to 1. Demolish an existing detached garage and replacing it with a new detached garage, 2. Remove existing sunroom windows and replacing the space with three windows and wood siding, 3. Add a screened sunroom along the west side of the home where the existing porch is located. This property is located on the south side of East Main Street at the corner of East Main Street and South University Street. The house was constructed circa 1895 in the Queen Anne/Colonial Revival style of architecture with a classical porch, bargeboards, decorative shingles, clapboard, with a gabled roof. This house is a contributing structure in the East Main Street Historic District of the National Register of Historic Places. The property owner is requesting three extensive renovations to the exterior which include the following: 1. Demolishing the existing detached garage and constructing a new detached two-car garage with attic storage space above. The siding of the garage will be wood with fish- scale and will have decorative shingles to match the house. 2. Remove the existing sunroom windows and replacing the space with three wood or wood composite windows and with wood siding to match the existing siding. 3. Add a screened sunroom along the west side of the home where the existing porch is located and extending the sunroom length to 26’ft (see attached rendering). Photographs of the existing detached garage, sunroom, and porch are including in the agenda packet as well as renderings of the proposed additions to the property. Photographs of the neighboring houses on both sides of the subject property have also been submitted for the Commission’s review. The applicant’s representative will be in attendance at the meeting in order to answer any questions the Commission may have regarding the request. View of 550 East Main Street from East Main Street Neighboring property along South University Street Neighboring property along East Main Street View of 550 East Main Street from South University Street Existing Detached Garage View of the existing sunroom Existing deck to be replaced with sunroom  HISTORIC ZONING COMMISSION Regular Meeting February 21, 2017 MEMBERS PRESENT: ABSENT: Jim Thompson, Chairman Paul Cross David Becker, Vice-Chair Jennifer Garland Rick Cantrell Linda Anderson Debra Belcher Marimae White Gib Backlund STAFF PRESENT: Joe Ornelas, AICP Planner Adam Tucker, Assistant City Attorney Brenda Davis, Recording Assistant Chairman Thompson called the meeting to order at 3:30 p.m. Ms. Anderson made a motion to approve the minutes from the January 17, 2017 meeting with some clerical changes. The motion was seconded by Ms. Belcher and carried unanimously in favor. New Business: H-17-003 – 330 East College Street, Community Development Department – Requesting to repair the exterior of the home including replacing the roof, chimney, siding, windows, porch columns, front door, and light fixtures. Mr. Ornelas reviewed the application and the Staff comments contained in the HZC agenda package. Mr. John Callow was present to answer questions. Chairman Thompson asked Mr. Callow to come to the podium and discuss in more detail for each items. Chairman Thompson suggested the Commission vote on each separate item after the discussions. Mr. John Callow with the City of Murfreesboro Community Development Department came to the podium. Mr. Callow said this project will be funded using the Community Development Block Grant money. He said because of that, they have certain responsibilities to the U.S. HZC Minutes February 21, 2017 Department of Housing and Urban Development. Mr. Callow said one of the first things they do when they get a project for a house that was built before 1978, they have to do lead-based paint testing. He said every part of that house is “hot”, so they have to mitigate as part of that project. Mr. Callow said the house was built in stages stating there is the original house, from the front view the downstairs section to the left was added at a later time, the section above it was added, at yet another time, the dormer was added about that same time, and then there is a section across the back that was added another time. He said in the dormer and the addition in the second floor to the left, the siding is of a different width than that in the original house and original addition (A1). Mr. Callow said what they would propose to do is for the original siding they are going to address the lead-based paint by scraping and repainting. They are proposing to replace the siding that is not of that original width which would be in the dormer and the section in the second floor addition to the left with siding that matches as closely as they can to the original siding. Mr. Callow said that is actually cheaper than doing the full mitigation for the lead-based paint. He asked for guidance from the Commission on the back whether they want all of the siding replaced. He said the part that was the original house, which was the second floor, is somewhere between 5 to 6-inch. He said the new addition is wider and closer to an 8 to 9-inch exposure. Mr. Callow said he would like to address this first. Mr. Callow submitted a two-page handout today as he did not know how extensive the photo documentation would be. He referred to the last picture of his handout stating that was the second floor bathroom. He said there has been extensive damage inside the house because of the roof. Mr. Callow said the roof is a hipped roof and they will have to take it down to the decking and the decking will probably need to be replaced, then bring it back out with a new roof. Chairman Thompson asked if the third floor with the dormers is occupied. Mr. Callow said not at the present time but it has been occupied in the past. He said at one time the homeowner had seven children living there. He said the stairway to the third floor is not original. Chairman Thompson asked if the homeowner would like to leave her options open for the third floor. Mr. Callow said the homeowner is not interested in taking the dormer away. He said what they are proposing to do is to make it look a little bit more like the original. Mr. Callow said the front line of the dormer matches the front line of the house so using the material they have at the bottom will look a little closer. Mr. Callow is not requesting to replace the chimneys, if at all possible, but would like to repoint them. He said one chimney looks to be in decent shape and one that looks like it is about to fall over. Chairman Thompson said he would like to review each of the various items and discuss the scope of the work. 2 HZC Minutes February 21, 2017 Roof: He first referred to the roof and asked if Mr. Callow would be replacing the shingles. Mr. Callow said whatever it takes to make sure they don’t have a condition show up on the inside of the house like they have got now. He said until you take the existing roof off, you don’t know how much deck that will need to be replaced. He thinks they will have to replace some decking but does not know how much. Mr. Callow said yes, they would be replacing the shingles with shingles. Chairman Thompson asked if it would be an asphalt shingle or what type of shingle and then asked if it would match what is currently there. He said they normally get a sample of the type of proposed shingle. Mr. Callow said he does not have any ideas and asked the Commission to tell him what they want and he will do it. Chairman Thompson said it is hard for the Commission to tell him what they want unless they intend to change it or match what is there. Mr. Callow said they are going to do their best to match what is there. Ms. Anderson asked Mr. Callow how long the renovation will take once it starts and also wanted to know how much money would be available to the homeowner. Mr. Callow said it is difficult for him to talk about the money because he will have to put this out to bid. He said they have consulted with the Planning Department and they feel like the money they have in the budget to cover it would take care of the repairs they are planning in the first stage. Mr. Callow said he was trying to be careful because it is going to be expensive enough as it is and doesn’t want to give any hints. Ms. Anderson referred to the addition that was put on the back of the house and how the siding is a different depth. She asked if he planned to leave that on. Mr. Callow said since it doesn’t show-up from the front, it is in better shape than some of the rest of the house. He said they want to come back and make what you can see from the street compatible with the original house. Ms. Anderson said thank you. Mr. Callow informed the Commission the specifications include a 25-year old roof. 3 HZC Minutes February 21, 2017 Chairman Thompson said the Commission is used to receiving, this is what is there and this is what we intend to replace it with. He asked if the Commission would like to offer comments. Vice-Chair Becker made a motion to replace the asphalt shingles as they are and once the applicant determines the color and type of shingle, it be submitted to Mr. Ornelas. The motion was seconded by Mr. Cantrell. Ms. Anderson said it seems like at this stage, Mr. Callow is trying to show the Commission what they want to do but they aren’t far enough along to make final decisions. Mr. Callow agreed and said for him to be able to commit the Federal Funds, he has to get approval from the State Historic Preservation Officer. He said State Historic Preservation Officer is telling Mr. Callow they aren’t interested in looking at the application until he has a Certificate of Appropriateness from this Commission. Chairman Thompson asked Vice-Chair Becker to restate his motion so the Commission can vote. Vice-Chair Becker made a motion to approve an asphalt shingle roof as close as it can be to the current roof and that a sample is to be supplied to Mr. Ornelas when it is determined what is put on the roof. The motion was previously seconded by Mr. Cantrell and carried unanimously in favor. Chimneys: Chairman Thompson asked to talk about the chimneys. He asked if Mr. Callow was planning to keep one of the chimneys and re-pointe one. Mr. Callow said he plans to re-pointe both of the chimneys if at all possible because there is no way they are going to be able to replace 100-year brick with something that looks like 100-year brick. Mr. Callow feels it is more appropriate to maintain what is there. He is not proposing to put the chimneys back into working order but wants to make them look how they are supposed to look. Chairman Thompson asked Mr. Callow if he finds out the chimneys are too far gone, would he come back to the Commission and inform them of that. Mr. Callow agreed. Chairman Thompson said in reviewing the Guidelines a few years back, the Commission decided that chimneys and dormers were very important elements they didn’t want to lose. He was glad to hear that Mr. Callow wants to keep the chimneys intact. 4 HZC Minutes February 21, 2017 Ms. Belcher made a motion to repair and keep the chimneys and if there is any kind of issue the applicant will come back to the Commission and let them know. The motion was seconded by Mr. Cantrell and carried unanimously in favor. Siding: Chairman Thompson asked to talk about the siding as there are so many types of siding. Mr. Callow said the siding on the original house is what they want to appear on all sides visible from the street. He said the siding on the dormer and second floor on the addition located on the left, front and the side would be pulled and replaced with something that has the exposure like in the original house. Chairman Thompson asked if he plans to install the same size siding on the third floor dormer as on the house even though it is currently 8-inches wide. Mr. Callow said yes. He referred to the picture he handed out earlier that reflected siding damage underneath the window. He said they will have to address siding, regardless so if they are going to address siding they might as well fix it with the right stuff instead of something that looks weird. Mr. Callow said he is not the architect but it looks weird to him. Vice-Chair Becker asked if Mr. Callow plans to replace the siding with the same material which is wood. Mr. Callow said correct. Chairman Thompson asked if Mr. Callow knew when the dormer was built. Mr. Callow said the owner bought the house in 1972, so he guessed about 1974. Chairman Thompson said he works with the State Historic Preservation Officer a lot and they don’t like to make something look old when it is actually new and so they may want that siding to be different than the main house in its exposure because you would be creating a false history that it is old and it is not. Mr. Callow said the real history would be to take it out altogether. Chairman Thompson said that is why he brought it up earlier. Mr. Callow said he will do what the Commission wants but feels like it needs to look like the rest of the house because that wall is flat up to the roof-line. 5 HZC Minutes February 21, 2017 Ms. Anderson asked Chairman Thompson if he wanted to stick with the 5-inch siding on the addition. Chairman Thompson said he doesn’t like it, personally but he suggested to make the dormer siding different because it is a non-original feature and non-original siding. He said if you put the 6-inch on it, it will look old. If he were to explain that to the State Historic Preservation Officer, he would say that is false history and it should be done differently. Chairman Thompson said it could be painted differently but because it is in the same plane, he is thinking you can’t paint it differently. He said although it would look extremely odd to have 6-inch and then 8-inch siding, it is telling the public that it was a change. Ms. Anderson said the house is so large, she can’t see that the siding being different would be an eye-sore adding we know it was an addition. Mr. Backlund asked what the Secretary of Interior Standards say. He asked if that was actually written in the Secretary of Interior Guidelines. Mr. Backlund said he knows they like additions to be different but doesn’t know if this would be a significant issue in this case. Chairman Thompson suggested the Commission vote however they feel appropriate and leave it up to the State Historic Preservation Officer to make the final decision. He thinks it should be brought up to the State Historic Preservation Officer. Vice-Chair Becker made a motion on the siding to approve it as submitted and if it is requested to be changed by the State Historic Preservation Officer that the Commission is made aware of that change. Chairman Thompson asked Vice-Chair Becker to amend his motion to say wood siding. Vice-Chair Becker amended the above motion to state the siding will be replaced with wood material to match the original house. The motion was seconded by Ms. Belcher and carried unanimously in favor. Porch Columns: Mr. Callow pointed out the bases of the existing porch columns in the photos provided in the agenda package. He said the lead-based report came back and said they are “hot”. Mr. Callow was not sure if they necessarily have to replace all of the columns but certainly have to replace the bases as they have rotted. Chairman Thompson said it would be his hope to just replace the bases with some kind of material. 6 HZC Minutes February 21, 2017 Mr. Callow said it is not like they have unlimited capital to work with so whenever they can save, that is something they are going to do. He did not have a problem with just replacing the bases because he thinks that is a place they can have some savings. Chairman Thompson said one of the reasons causing them to rot is there are no gutters or downspouts on the porch so the water is coming down to the concrete where the wood sits and the columns stand on. He said it would be nice if there were gutters and downspouts. Mr. Callow said the house has never had gutters or downspouts. Chairman Thompson agreed but said the columns are going to continue to rot unless you pick the right material. Mr. Callow said he does gutters and downspouts every day on housing rehab projects, so he has no problem with that. He asked for recommendations on what that should look like and they would certainly be happy to consider them. Mr. Backlund made a motion to approve replacing the bases of the columns with an appropriate material. The motion was seconded by Ms. Anderson and carried unanimously in favor. Mr. Ornelas asked Chairman Thompson if gutters and downspouts would also be required for the home, as well. Chairman Thompson said that was not a part of the motion so he can’t make a motion. He was just pointing out that if you don’t have gutters and downspouts, the water is going to hit the columns and bases, therefore it is going to rot. Chairman Thompson said he may be coming back to the Commission sooner or later for more bases to be replaced. Front Porch: Chairman Thompson asked Mr. Callow to explain the front door. He referred to the submitted drawing and asked if Mr. Callow could tell the material. Mr. Callow said the existing front door is actually two doors and they are both wood with glass and they plan to replace with wood and glass as close as they can to match the original. He said the doors will probably have to be hand-crafted just like the windows when they get to the review of the windows. Mr. Callow said there is a transom up above and they proposed to leave that transom in place. He said there are also lead-paint issues there but feels it is too important as they can mitigate the lead cheaper than they can get a new one built. 7 HZC Minutes February 21, 2017 Chairman Thompson referred to a picture of a Jeld-Wen door in the agenda packet. He noticed the glass in that is taller and asked since it will be a custom door, will they be able to match the door that has a slightly shorter piece of glass and a deeper panel below. Mr. Callow said their plan is to have the doors replaced as close to a match as possible. Chairman Thompson verified the doors would be made of wood. Mr. Callow said yes. Mr. Backlund asked if the doors were beyond repair. Mr. Callow said one of the doors is probably beyond repair. He said there are also issues with square-ness or rectangular-ness. He said their experience has been, when they get a situation like this they are better off just pulling out the old unit and replacing it with a pre-hung unit, which is what this would become. Chairman Thompson said this is not on the list but since they are in this area, there is a picture of the ceiling of the front porch. He said there appears to be a piece of plywood hanging down, probably from a roof leak. Chairman Thompson asked Mr. Callow to describe what work would be done in that ceiling area. Mr. Callow said they will take out the bad part, replace it and repaint. Chairman Thompson verified it will be replaced with another piece of plywood. Mr. Callow said yes. Chairman Thompson was not sure if they planned to put B-board up or what. Mr. Callow said they will go back with materials that are equivalent, whenever possible. He said the only place they may have trouble with going back with materials that are just like, is in the back east side of the house. Mr. Callow said the foundation of the original house is brick and the foundation for the addition on the left side of the house is concrete block until you get back to the third addition. He said what is covering the crawl space back there is more like a Masonite adding it is a red Masonite that has been embossed. He said there is a whole section that is missing in the back. Mr. Callow does not think he can find embossed red Masonite. Chairman Thompson said there is probably a reason he will not be able to find embossed red Masonite. 8 HZC Minutes February 21, 2017 Mr. Callow said fortunately, that part cannot be seen from the street but there is about a 7-foot section from the end of addition A to the rear of the house. He said there is a crawl space covered up with a sheet of Masonite. Mr. Cantrell made a motion to repair the porch ceiling with a piece of plywood. The motion was seconded by Vice-Chair Becker and carried unanimously in favor. Chairman Thompson said there are three more things that need to be addressed: the doors, door handles and porch lights. Vice-Chair Becker made a motion to approve the replacement of the doors as submitted. The motion was seconded by Ms. Belcher and carried unanimously in favor. Chairman Thompson referred to the porch lights and said it appears the existing porch light was brass but suspects it was never brass. Mr. Callow agreed. Chairman Thompson said it appears there is a hobnail or obscure glass light. Mr. Callow said he could not find, in all the images he pulled up, one that looked exactly like what was there. He said they would get as close to what is there as possible. Mr. Callow said the home owner said the other light is in the back of the garage and believes it because there is a lot of stuff in the garage. Chairman Thompson recommended replacing the glass with clear glass instead of the obscure glass. Mr. Callow agreed. Vice-Chair Becker made a motion to approve the door handles as submitted and the side lights with the qualifications of having clear glass in them. The motion was seconded by Ms. Anderson and carried unanimously in favor. Brick Foundation: Chairman Thompson asked what Mr. Callow planned to do with the brick foundation. Mr. Callow said he plans to re-pointe the brick foundation, as needed. He referred the Commission to the 2-page handout showing the left foundation area. Mr. Callow said they have a situation where the foundation has split so they know there is some work that will have to be done there. He said the concrete-block foundation appears to be in pretty good shape. He said 9 HZC Minutes February 21, 2017 part of the foundation crack is dealing with the porch as there is stucco coming off of the portion around the steps, cheek walls. They are planning to get that cleaned up and go back with the stucco look since that was the original. Vice-Chair Becker made a motion to approve the repairs on the brick foundation and stucco portion around the steps and front porch as submitted. The motion was seconded by Ms. Belcher and carried unanimously in favor. Windows: Chairman Thompson asked Mr. Callow to explain what he plans to do on the windows. Mr. Callow said there are pictures in the agenda package and those are probably the better ones. He said some windows don’t even have glass in them, windows from several different eras, and some windows have storm windows on top stating it is a total hodgepodge. He added that every window is a lead-based paint generating machine, not only the paint but every time it goes up or down you are developing the lead-based paint status. He said through experience the easiest way to mitigate windows that have lead is to replace the windows. Mr. Callow is proposing to replace the windows with wood windows with double-pane since that is part of what HUD (Housing Urban Development) requires him to do. He said HUD requires Mr. Callow to increase energy efficiency whenever they do a project and this helps him sell this a little bit better to HUD as well. Mr. Callow said that would also keep the homeowner from having to come back and put storm windows back up. He said as part of the lead-based paint inspection, he knew this was something they would need to address. Mr. Callow had their inspector give a cost of replacement windows versus an estimate on repairing windows. He said they plan to replace all the windows in the house except for the transom over the front door. Mr. Backlund asked how much trouble it would be to repair the windows. Mr. Callow said some of the windows cannot be repaired. Mr. Backlund asked how about those that could be. Mr. Callow said for the sake of uniformity, they would be better off replacing all of them. The ones that could be repaired would not have the double pane so they would lose their energy efficiency. Mr. Backlund asked if the house has had storm windows on it in the past. Mr. Callow said according to the picture in the agenda package, he can see four of them in the front of the house. 10 HZC Minutes February 21, 2017 Mr. Backlund said storm windows have as good energy efficiency as do double-paned windows. Mr. Callow said he is not prepared to put storm windows in all those windows. He said a better use of their money is to go with double-pane replacements. Mr. Backlund asked if it were because of costs. Mr. Callow said yes. Mr. Backlund said from a historic point of view the other alternative is better. Mr. Callow said he guarantees that not one of those storm windows was on that house when it was built in 1920. He said the homeowner will say the house was not built in 1920 adding the original house was actually built earlier. Mr. Backlund asked Mr. Callow if he knew when the house was built. Mr. Callow said he had several different dates offered to him, anywhere from 1860 to 1880 to who knows. The property accessor says 1928 which he thinks was probably that first addition. Mr. Cantrell said Mr. Callow also spoke of the cost of the lead-based paint situation, trying the mitigate that. Mr. Callow said the cost of going in to scrap 30 windows becomes prohibited. Mr. Backlund asked Mr. Callow if he knew when the storm windows were added to the house. Mr. Callow said the ones that are there look to be added in the mid to late 1970’s. He said the present homeowner added the storm windows and she bought the house in 1972. Mr. Backlund asked if Mr. Callow would be able to match the style and shape of the historic windows. Mr. Callow said sure. Chairman Thompson asked if all the windows were one-over-one. Mr. Callow said yes, except there is one window in the east wall which is not. Chairman Thompson asked if he believed it to be replacement sash since it isn’t the same. Mr. Callow said that is in the first addition. 11 HZC Minutes February 21, 2017 Chairman Thompson agreed with Mr. Callow that the State Historic Preservation Officer is interested in trying to keep as much of the original windows and rebuilding them, when possible. He said since Mr. Callow has to go before them to get approval, no matter what this Commission decides, the State Historic Preservation Officer will be the final judge of this. He said typically, windows are a real big deal with Preservationists. They don’t like you just throwing them away adding they are typically built of old-growth wood and last longer than the new wood windows. Vice-Chair Becker said the windows shown in the pictures look to be pretty far gone. Mr. Callow said they will not do the project if they cannot replace the windows. Chairman Thompson said ultimately it will come down to the State Historic Preservation Officer. Mr. Callow said he will tell him the same. Chairman Thompson said that is fine and Mr. Callow has every right to. Mr. Cantrell made a motion to replace all windows with wood double-pane windows. The motion was seconded by Mr. Becker and carried unanimously in favor. Chairman Thompson asked if there was anything else in the project that Mr. Callow needs to bring to the Commission. Mr. Callow said it is going to be the most expensive housing rehab project they have ever accomplished adding it will be the most extensive, complicated project they have ever undertaken and thinks if they don’t undertake it they run a real danger of losing this particular property as part of the stock of the Register District. Vice-Chair Becker noticed there is window air conditioning and asked if the window units would continue to be utilized or change. Mr. Callow is trying to talk the homeowner into taking the window units out but that becomes a homeowner’s choice, not his. He said that is another advantage to the double-pane windows adding they have already started this project. Mr. Callow said back in November 2016, they discovered the homeowner had no heat so they replaced the HVAC unit, adding that was done as an emergency repair. He is hoping with the new windows and whatever else they can do in building an energy-efficient instances with the rest of the project that they can maybe put the house in such a shape the homeowner won’t need the window units. Ms. Anderson asked if the Commission needed to discuss the fascia or eves. 12 HZC Minutes February 21, 2017 Mr. Callow said when they are in disrepair, they will repair them using a like, equivalent material. Mr. Backlund said Vice-Chair Becker, Ms. Anderson and he all live within a block of the subject house so they are happy Mr. Callow is improving the neighborhood. Mr. Callow said it is a real challenge and have put a lot of time into this project. He can’t wait to see what they come out with in the end. Mr. Callow asked if this means the Commission will issue a Certificate of Appropriateness. Chairman Thompson said all the motions carried, so he suspects they will issue a Certificate of Appropriateness. H-17-004 – 205 North University Street, Dan and Pam JoaQuin – Requesting to replace the existing wood windows with vinyl windows. Mr. Ornelas reviewed the application and the Staff comments contained in the HZC agenda package. The applicants were present to answer questions. Mr. and Ms. JoaQuin came to the podium. Mr. JoaQuin said their plan all along is to bring the home back to its glory and that is why, in the first phase, they wanted to remove the deck which was not original. He said they have done that and are very pleased with how that looks. He said it’s nice sitting over in the college parking lot and looking at it and seeing the way that it was. Mr. JoaQuin said what they are proposing to do is replace the windows, excluding the sunroom windows which are newer windows and really don’t match the rest of the house, with six over six. He said there are a couple of windows on the side that are hidden by another house that are not six over six but all multi-pane, smaller. He said the windows are in various state of disrepair. He said they initially thought or hoped it was something they could save but by looking interior they can see the windows are truly rotten. Mr. JoaQuin said when they tried to scrap them, they ended up peeling away wood after wood so saving them was not an option. He said the pictures in the agenda package show the windows stating some of the windows haven’t been closed in years and what the homeowner had done was try to fill the void with tubes and tubes of clear silicone caulk which didn’t help the process and further contributed to the rot. Mr. JoaQuin proposed replacing the windows with simulated divided grids internal (not external) to the glass, double-pane, vinyl (for efficiency and long lasting ability of those windows). He said the windows would be custom made, white, six over six and the few windows that are not six over six on the side would still get a match for those windows. He said there might be a window they could save but they want all the windows to match, adding there are 30 windows to replace in this house. 13 HZC Minutes February 21, 2017 Ms. JoaQuin introduced their contractor, Lucas Neely stating he has done a lot of research on this and presented some pictures she passed around to the Commission members. Chairman Thompson asked if there would be a shadow bar between the glass where the muntins are? Mr. Neely said no, that was not their original intent. Chairman Thompson said when you stand down below and look up, you will see the gap and it will look very weird. Mr. Neely said their main focus was to mimic what was currently there and that doesn’t exist on the current windows. He said they would be more than happy to do that as that is not a deciding factor for them. Mr. Neely said being in a historic society he assumes when the Commission hears the word vinyl it makes you want to cringe and he understands that. He suggested looking at this project from a whole stating when they walked into it, they knew there might be some issues but didn’t anticipate the severities of the issues they have run into. He said they found brick mold, lead- based paint issues, windows that don’t open because they have been painted 4,5,6,7 times and look awful no matter what in their current state. Mr. Lucas said the brick mold is degraded so bad that you wouldn’t be able to scrap or salvage what is there, regardless. He said one of the main reasons they wanted to go with vinyl was kind-of two-fold, the brick mortar has deteriorated over time and they don’t know if there will continue to be water intrusion. He said at this point you are looking at a couple of options, you either gut the entire thing or you make the best decisions you can with what you’ve got. Mr. Neely said what they feel will be the best long-term solution is to go with a PVC brick mold that is not going to be susceptible to the water damage if there is any kind of intrusion based on the mortar joints. He said other issues might occur but it is a better, long-term solution. He said with the grids being external and from the road most people are not going to know but it might make the Commission members lose sleep so they are there to find out. Chairman Thompson said it appears the upper sash themselves are in better shape than the lower sashes. Mr. Neely said that is not the case. Mr. JoaQuin said there is a picture in the handout that has the silicone and it is the upper sash that has the dry rot. Mr. Neely said his first instinct would be to replace sashes only and if he thought that was a viable option, that is what they would do. 14 HZC Minutes February 21, 2017 Chairman Thompson said it is his experience that the upper sash tends to shed the water and the water sits on the seal. From what he understands regarding the mold, the seal probably has been cracked over time and poorly maintained so the water is coming in and creating mold. He verified the seal is a problem. Mr. Neely said yes, the seal is a problem. Chairman Thompson said the lower rail, on the lower sash is typically the problem too, otherwise the upper parts have less degree of severity of deterioration. Chairman Thompson asked what the seal would be made out of. Mr. Neely said all of the lower windows and he believes the upper windows all have a concrete seal. He said the Commission recommended, at the January 17th meeting, duplicating the concrete sash at the base of the new window that was replacing the existing deck door. The concrete would shed water similar to what is on the rest of the home. Chairman Thompson asked if the applicants intended to put back the brick mold. Mr. Neely said yes, all new brick mold. Chairman Thompson asked if the new brick mold would match the existing brick mold. Mr. Neely said yes, adding if they are able to get the same profile they will match what is currently on the home. He said the brick mold itself has been subject to water intrusion over the years. Mr. Neely said, in his opinion the existing windows are likely original and are in rough shape stating they haven’t been maintained over the years, the caulking over the side of the brick mold hasn’t been kept up so there is major deterioration on every aspect of those windows. He said they are looking at total replacement of the windows. Chairman Thompson agreed that historic preservations groups do not like replacing wood windows with vinyl. He reviewed the Guidelines again and said the Commission typically like to see wood windows go back where there are wood windows adding they don’t even like the metal covering. He said the metal-covered clad windows tend to get moisture behind them and rot those out too, so that is not a good way either. Chairman Thompson said the Commission has not approved vinyl windows in the past just because it is a foreign element to a historic house and not original. Mr. Neely said if you look back at the history of home building, in general things have advanced. He said technology advances, it causes codes to change, it causes different material to be used, it causes a wide variety of things to alter over the course of time. He said if you look at knob and tube wiring, we no longer use that, we use Romax. If you look at plaster, it is no longer a viable 15 HZC Minutes February 21, 2017 option with the lathe underneath, we use drywall. We insulate the exterior of our walls of our homes. We just do so many things that are different because technology has advanced and allows us to do that. He said they are hoping the Commission might view the vinyl windows as one of these technology advancements that is more efficient for the home in general, longer lasting, and thus maintaining the appearance of the home for a much longer period of time than wood windows which will always degrade similar to what you see on a lot of the historic homes. Mr. Backlund asked if the applicants priced-out the cost of wooden windows. Mr. Neely said he priced-out everything including wood windows, aluminum clad windows, stating all of the windows will be custom made. He said there are no standard sizes so there are some additional costs there no matter what they do. Chairman Thompson said historically vinyl windows tend to sag over time and deform just because the materials weren’t that good. He said fiberglass was better and asked if the applicant investigated vinyl versus fiberglass. Mr. Neely said they can do either but did not price-out fiberglass as he didn’t anticipate that being a question that was raised as that is not a standard thing that is offered. He said yes, on cheaper vinyl windows they are terrible and will sag over time. Mr. Neely said you can buy cheap windows that will sag stating that is not their intent. He said the applicants are looking at this home as a long-term investment and they want to stay there for a long time adding he doesn’t want his name on something that is going to look bad in five years. He said they would be using double-paned windows and making sure that they use very good products that have a shelf life. Vice-Chair Becker said he installed new windows on his back porch which never did have windows and just had screens. He said they were in the same position as the applicant and found out through Anderson Renewal a product that they have called Fibrex. Vice-Chair Becker said Fibrex is a mixture of polymer and wood that comes in white but can be painted and it looks like wood. He felt new vinyl windows would give the applicants some problems in the future. Mr. Neely did not want to argue that stating that was subject to everyone’s opinion. He said if you drive through downtown Murfreesboro and look at all the homes that have wood windows you will see that they don’t just have the same appearances as the newer homes. Mr. Neely said he realizes that when you do a tear down and build in downtown, they are not subject to the same stipulations as historic homes and he understands that stating it is hard to throw that into the mix. He said the wood windows break down over time and will not last as long as a vinyl window. Chairman Thompson said it comes down to material selected for the wood and more than anything comes down to maintenance. He said whatever you put up, maintenance is always a key factor to making sure anything lasts. He said just because you build a new house doesn’t 16 HZC Minutes February 21, 2017 mean that maintenance doesn’t start the day you move in. He said there is never going to be the perfect answer adding vinyl windows are not going to be the perfect answer. Chairman Thompson said we are in a historic district and the Commission has not typically approved vinyl windows. He said that is the question for him stating he is just one person and cannot make a motion but he can vote. Chairman Thompson highly recommended, if approved by this Commission, they get the shadow bar because he thinks the applicants will be very disappointed if you don’t get that between panes of glass to block being able to see up between the two sets of muntins on the inside and outside. Mr. Neely and Mr. JoaQuin both agreed to install the shadow bar. Mr. JoaQuin said everything they are doing is to get it back to the original. He said they are redoing the bathrooms and not doing grand bathrooms but trying to make everything look as it did. Ms. JoaQuin said they are trying to make everything look as true to that era as possible. Chairman Thompson referred to the last time the applicants came before the Commission about removing the deck from the sunroom and thanked Mr. and Ms. JoaQuin for making it better. He said that is what everyone is here for, to preserve the quality of this era as a showplace for the entire City. He said people come to Murfreesboro just to drive down East Main and look around because of all the beautiful homes. Chairman Thompson said it is up to this Commission and the individuals that own those homes to try and maintain them. He said otherwise, why would you have bought that house stating they could have bought somewhere else and built a new house or something else. He said they liked this area and liked these older homes and wanted to preserve itself. He thanked the JoaQuins for that. Mr. JoaQuin said their history of homes is 1927, 1924, and are not sure what year this house is. He said they have a picture of it taken from a field of the Women’s College with somebody playing tennis. He said the picture is in a yearbook of 1923, so they know this house was built before then. Ms. JoaQuin said they know it existed in 1923 and how much before then, they don’t know. Vice-Chair Becker said he applauded the applicants for wanting to return the house to its original material and unfortunately vinyl windows were not original to your home. He said the Nelsons that just did a major remodel, adjacent to the JoaQuins, used wood-clad windows. Vice-Chair Becker said when they restored their windows in 1998, they used Pella Wood windows adding they are 19 years old. He said they maintain them and there is not a sign at all of any problems with them. Again, Vice-Chair Becker said another option is the Fibrex put out by Anderson Renewal. 17 HZC Minutes February 21, 2017 Mr. Neely said Anderson Renewal makes other products similar to the Fibrex. He said it is pretty standard throughout any door you purchase, the bottom 12-inches of that door casing is made out of a similar material which is a no-rot material to keep you from having the issues that typical doors undergo. Mr. Neely said they are wide open to using composite materials. He said one of the things they would like to consider is where the market is right now and the requirements to purchase within this market and what it would cost. Replacing a few windows with Anderson, which is one of the top two priciest window manufacturers that there are. He said there is Pella and Anderson with great quality products but you are looking at a $1,300 window versus a $300 window. He said when you look at the cost of replacing 30 windows, that becomes a significant factor in what you can do to the rest of the home. Mr. Neely asked for consideration as the applicants are trying to bring this home back alive. Ms. Anderson verified that Mr. Neely mentioned there were other companies besides Andersons Windows that make composite. Mr. Neely said yes. Ms. Anderson suggested the applicants look into composite windows. She said Mr. Neely also made a statement about new windows, new homes and vinyl windows. She reminded him the homes in the historic district are not new homes and do not want to look like new homes. Mr. Neely agreed and he respects that which is one of the reasons they want it to mimic the look of the existing windows. He said this is a major factor before they decided which direction they wanted to pursue. Again, he said one of the reasons they chose the grid pattern and the type of grids they did so it would look the period of the home and would look like the original windows even if it wasn’t the original windows. Mr. JoaQuin added that composite is not original either. Ms. Anderson said the Commission had a seminar last year with a gentleman with a wealth of information from the Tennessee Historical Commission. She said he explained about wooden windows to the Commission and how nowadays they are not made with the old wood that was used back in the day. He mentioned that some of the products, like Fibrex, he recommended far and above new pine windows. Mr. Neely said if it were not for the wood that was used when the house was originally built, they would have far more significant issues than what they have right now because that wood is cured. He said they didn’t have some of the rot and structural deterioration that you would typically expect with newer pine lumber. He said it is kind of like barn framing, that wood will last forever. He said on that aspect they were fortunate. 18 HZC Minutes February 21, 2017 Mr. Backlund said one of the things they look at is the area of the house that is visible from the street. He said this house is on the corner so there is a lot that is visible from the street. He asked if the applicants have thought about phasing this project or thought about using wood on a portion. Mr. JoaQuin said the windows wouldn’t match. Mr. Neely said if the windows didn’t match, that would affect the resale value and so many other things. Mr. JoaQuin said they started the phasing approach with one of the houses they previously owned and it just became when is the next window going to fail, thinking they would get a window that would match again. He felt a better way for uniformity and the look of the house is to bite the bullet and do it all at once. Mr. Cantrell asked if they would be interested in using a composite material. Mr. Neely volunteered to look into the composite material. He said one of the big factors it is going to come down to is price. He said there were things they looked at when they visually inspected the house on multiple occasions prior to the first offer and after the counter-offer. Mr. Neely said there are some things they anticipated as potential pitfalls so they tried to brace themselves for those things. He said there are so many things that you cannot see until you cut back that plaster or you pull up some shoe mold or see where this black mold is coming in and you poke a hole in the window. Mr. Neely said fortunately people that own homes don’t like them poking holes in their stuff but once they get in there, they try to make the best of what they got. Mr. Cantrell asked if the Commission approved windows on a house located on North Maney. Vice-Chair Becker said he remembers the house and thinks the windows in that home were vinyl. Mr. Neely said the windows were not vinyl and he knew that because it was his father’s house, Jack Neely. Mr. Cantrell asked if the Commission was being consistent and have they approved vinyl windows. Chairman Thompson did not remember. Mr. Backlund didn’t think the Commission has always been consistent but feels that is one of their failings not the homeowners. He felt vinyl is not appropriate in a historic house and he 19 HZC Minutes February 21, 2017 thinks the Guidelines and the Secretary of Interior Standards state that. Mr. Backlund said sometimes the Commission has not paid as much attention to that as they should. Ms. JoaQuin said if comparing composite versus vinyl, composite is not wood either. Vice-Chair Becker said the kind of composite he was talking about, Fibrex, is a certain (he thinks 60%) percent wood and 40% polymer. He said the finished product looks like wood and paints like wood. He said vinyl does not look like wood. Mr. Neely said grain can be included in the vinyl as well. Chairman Thompson said if the Commission approves the vinyl, he highly recommends the brick mold going back as it is now, replaced and add a shadow bar. Mr. JoaQuin agreed to do that. Chairman Thompson asked if the Commission would like the applicants to research composite windows a little further and come back. Mr. Neely said they have been at a stale-mate for three weeks waiting to get before the Commission again. He said it is costing his clients additional money at this point. He said if there was any way to speed up whatever ultimate decision they need to come to would certainly be appreciated as they would prefer to not wait until next month to come before the Commission again. Mr. Backlund said they could schedule a Special Meeting. Mr. JoaQuin asked what the Commission would be willing to approve today. He said they are balancing two houses. Chairman Thompson asked if they have moved into this house. Mr. JoaQuin said no, it is vacant and they are maintaining utilities and property taxes on two houses. Vice-Chair Becker asked Chairman Thompson if he remembered on the Nelson house what the windows were clad with. Chairman Thompson said he doesn’t remember it being clad. Vice-Chair Becker said it mentions that it is wood-clad windows. 20 HZC Minutes February 21, 2017 Mr. Neely said all windows are wood-clad stating the wood-cladding would go outside of the aluminum window. Chairman Thompson said it could be aluminum or vinyl clad. Mr. Neely agreed. Vice-Chair Becker asked the applicants to get a price from Anderson and compare it to an actual cost of vinyl. Mr. Neely said he could provide that information. Vice-Chair Becker also asked the applicants to talk with the Nelsons, the yellow house on College, as they just replaced their windows and get some ideas from them. He asked them to contact Mr. Ornelas with the information and then schedule a Special Meeting. Mr. Neely said he could provide that information right now. He could forward an e-mail for a house with similar size windows and replaced everything with Pella. He also has pricing on what the current window options are. Mr. Neely said they are looking in the neighborhood of about $1,240 per window for the Pella windows and about $260 per window for custom-made vinyl. He offered to send it in an e-mail. Chairman Thompson said he thinks that is the Anderson solid wood window and he is asking for a composite. Mr. Neely said it wasn’t adding it was a clad window. Chairman Thompson said they are talking about clad windows pointing out clad could be over real wood where a composite is a ground up material. Mr. Neely agreed and said the composite would be more expensive than the wood. He will send whatever information the Commission requests. Vice-Chair Becker said it is called Fibrex. Mr. Neely said he is familiar with it. Vice-Chair Becker made to motion the applicants come back with the price comparisons of Fibrex versus vinyl and then make a final decision. Mr. Cantrell said he would be happy with the composite. 21 HZC Minutes February 21, 2017 The motion was seconded by Mr. Backlund. Ms. JoaQuin came to the podium and said if the composite windows are going to cost more than pure wood windows she is not sure that is the way to go. Mr. JoaQuin said at that point they would probably go back in with just wood. Ms. JoaQuin said she would choose wood over composite because of the cost. She said there is a huge cost difference between vinyl and wood and they were hoping to get the vinyl approved. Ms. JoaQuin said it would look very, very appropriate stating she could guarantee the Commission that. She said they won’t be happy if it doesn’t look very appropriate. She said you can ask their contractor, stating they are extremely picky. Ms. JoaQuin said she gets down into the detail giving examples like: Can you replace that shoe molding to where it looks like the original shoe molding? She doesn’t want that cheap stuff from Lowe’s, stating she is very picky and so is Mr. JoaQuin. Chairman Thompson asked Vice-Chair Becker if that was the only place he found the Fibrex. Mr. JoaQuin said it appears the Fibrex is going to cost more so in turn they asked if the Commission would approve wood windows. Vice-Chair Becker said they would approve wood or wood-clad windows. Mr. JoaQuin said if the outside is clad and aluminum, it doesn’t look like wood but vinyl can have a wood grain effect. Mr. Neely asked if they had a true wood brick mold of PVC or composite material matching the profile of the old brick mold would you approve the frame which is not visible and the sashes to be vinyl. Chairman Thompson said he still thinks a historic house should have wood windows. Mr. JoaQuin said they shouldn’t do a clad window either. Vice-Chair Becker said they have tried, as a Board, to strike a happy medium and that is why they have gone and approved the wood clad before. Ms. JoaQuin assured the Commission they would not do anything that would not look right but they are looking at a cost effective solution because of the other unexpected expenses that have come up with the house. She said they would not be happy with anything that did not look right adding they can afford vinyl windows. 22 HZC Minutes February 21, 2017 Chairman Thompson said there was a motion on the floor and asked Vice-Chair Becker to repeat his motion. Vice-Chair Becker said the applicants asked what the Commission would approve today and that approval would be wood windows. He said it will be difficult to approve pure vinyl windows without some research into some other composites and materials. Mr. JoaQuin said he realizes composites will cost more so that means they would fall back to wood windows. He emphasized again, they are finding tens of thousands of dollars of additional work. He said they have a lovely house in Garrison Cove Subdivision but love this house and asked since there is no chance of getting vinyl approved they asked for wood approval. He said he hopes the Commission would approve wood windows. Vice-Chair Becker made a motion to approve wood windows adding they could be pure wood or wood-clad. The motion was seconded by Mr. Cantrell. Ms. Belcher asked if composite wood windows could also be approved. Vice-Chair Becker said yes adding they have been completely happy with their composite wood windows. Mr. JoaQuin said if they could afford 30 composite windows they would be happy as well. Ms. JoaQuin asked if the proposed brick mold sash in wood was still an option. Chairman Thompson interrupted the motion to be wood brick mold. Vice-Chair Becker amended the motion to approve wood windows with pure wood, wood- clad, wood composite and wood brick mold. The motion was again seconded by Mr. Cantrell and carried unanimously in favor. 23 HZC Minutes February 21, 2017 Staff Reports and Other Business: Mr. Ornelas asked the Commission to vote on approval of the 2017 Historic Zoning Commission calendar. Vice-Chair Becker made a motion to approve the 2017 Historic Zoning Commission calendar. The motion was seconded by Ms. Belcher and carried unanimously in favor. Ms. Belcher made a motion to dismiss. The motion was seconded by Ms. White and carried unanimously in favor. The meeting adjourned at 4:55 P.M. _____________________________________ ____________________________________ CHAIRMAN SECRETARY 24