City Council Oversight Committee Meeting
Regular MeetingNorman, OK · January 10, 2019
Minutes
CITY COUNCIL OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE MINUTES
January 10, 2019
The City Council Oversight Committee of the City of Norman, Cleveland County, State of Oklahoma,
met at 4:01 p.m.in the City Council Conference Room on the 10th day of January, 2019, and notice and
agenda of the meeting were posted in the Municipal Building at 201 West Gray 48 hours prior to the
beginning of the meeting.
PRESENT: Councilmembers Carter and Holman
Chairman Clark
ABSENT: Councilmembers Castleberry and Hickman
OTHER STAFF PRESENT: Mayor Lynne Miller
Mr. Bob Christian, Permit Manager
Mr. Terry Floyd, Development Coordinator
Mr. Bryce Holland, Multimedia Specialist
Ms. Jane Hudson, Interim Planning and
Community Development Director
Mr. Ken Komiske, Director of Utilities
Lt. Jeff Robertson, Norman Police Department
Ms. Jeanne Snider, Assistant City Attorney
Mr. Scott Sturtz, City Engineer
Ms. Mary Rupp, Interim City Manager
Ms. Kathryn Walker, Assistant City Attorney
Ms. Geri Wellborn, Utilities Manager
Ms. Regina Oliphant, Administrative Tech. IV
Item 1, being:
DISCUSSION REGARDING THE CITY OF NORMAN NOISE ORDINANCE.
Ms. Jeanne Snider, Assistant City Attorney, said in August of 2016 and during discussions regarding the
outdoor live entertainment concerns on Main Street with Puebla and Opolis, the Planning Department had
written two comprehensive memorandums and thought it would be best to give the history of the
ordinance included in the handout. She said there was no activity during 2017 until they began
discussions surrounding Hollywood Corners. Since then, Hollywood Corners was approved for outdoor
live entertainment by use of the Simple Planned Unit Development (SPUD), Red Rock Canyon Grill (Red
Rock) as an amendment to the University North Park Planned Unit Development (PUD), and another in
the Center City with an amendment there as well. She said Special Use seems to be a good way to
proceed for those businesses seeking to offer outdoor live music.
Chairman Clark asked Staff to describe the process of acquiring Special Use.
Ms. Jane Hudson, Interim Planning and Community Development Director, said Red Rock is located in
the University North Park Development. She said the original PUD covered the whole development, but
never addressed outdoor live entertainment. She said restaurants, where the kitchen remains open, are
allowed to have live entertainment inside; however, if you want the entertainment outside it requires the
request for Special Use.
City Council Oversight Committee Minutes
January 10, 2019
Page 2
Item 1, continued:
Chairman Clark said she had a question about “outside” and stated the definitions will need updating. For
example, with Bison Witches, the back of the building opens up for live entertainment with only three
solid walls, but Red Rock is a gazebo and clearly outdoors.
Ms. Hudson said Red Rock has defined their location for outdoor live music, which was one of the things
requested of them before moving forward with their PUD. They actually gave the definition and the
timeline that they would be providing the outdoor live entertainment. She said the process for Special
Use or through a PUD proceeds as follows:
• Processed through pre-development possibly, depending on the area they are looking to re-zone
• Planning Commission for recommendation
• City Council consideration for adoption
She said Council has been given the opportunity to consider each application on its own merit as it comes
forward. For example, with Red Rock there is no residential component around them other than across
eight lanes of I-35 traffic. Red Rock had the agreement included that they would not conflict with
anything going on in Legacy Park. Each application reviewed is on its own merit and the possible
surrounding impact they would have.
Chairman Clark said Special Use, SPUD, PUD and C-3 have been recommended, but not C-2. C-3 may
have some abutting residential areas, but C-2 is surrounded by residential.
Ms. Hudson said as far as C-3 zoning she would recommend the downtown area with some older outlying
properties, e.g., the property where Wrights IGA was located on North Porter, zoned C-3. She said the
C--3 area would be the downtown area and the Center City Form Based Code area.
Councilmember Holman said they have had discussions before about the downtown area and the fact that
there are not a lot of residential areas currently, but they are hoping and anticipating that in the future
there would be. He said other cities such as Austin, Texas, have had some conflict because of new
residential area developments coming in and the complaints regarding established music venues being a
nuisance to them. He asked how they might navigate this before it happens since downtown is mostly
C-3. He said currently, there are concerns in the Campus Corner area as there is a new bar on Campus
Corner located next to one of the only apartment buildings with the residents being very upset with the
loud music and base noise coming from the establishment.
Ms. Snider said there is a balancing act with the businesses that want to have outdoor live music and the
impact it can have on those already living there, as they need protection, too. She said this is an example
as to why Staff is recommending Special Use so that City Council can consider everything individually
and make the determination.
Chairman Clark said the Committee has talked about how there is only so much that can be handled
through zoning and having to count on the noise ordinance and being more confident with the police
having to step in. She said in the other instance, it was a quieter business that became a louder business.
She said she hopes that if people want to take advantage of a loft on Main Street that those persons would
be fully aware that this is where the loud music happens and not be upset during Music Fest.
Mayor Miller said she would like some clarification when they talk about Special Use, PUD and SPUD,
and asked if Special Use would be used in the C-3 zoned areas.
City Council Oversight Committee Minutes
January 10, 2019
Page 3
Item 1, continued:
Ms. Hudson said yes, the use of PUD in the core area can be used as well if they needed to have
additional allowances that C-3 would not allow. She said they could have outdoor live entertainment as a
Special Use in the C-3 District and anyone can request PUD or SPUD if needed.
Councilmember Holman said Bison Witches is not an outdoor venue or a patio, but the back part of the
building facing the alley has a garage door that opens up and allows the music to flow outdoors. He said
it is similar to Opolis with a garage door as well.
Chairman Clark said this is why she would like to see staff clean up the definitions because technically
without a wall they would be an outdoor venue; however, it can also be an indoor establishment if the
door is down. Again, Chairman Clark requested the language that determines outdoor defined more
evident because they already know there are instances where this conflict exists. Currently they have
outdoor music venue, outdoor entertainment, commercial venue or property not fully enclosed by
permanent solid walls and a roof where the use of sound equipment to amplify sound. She said what they
are describing at Bison Witches or even Puebla qualifies as an outdoor establishment; however, does not
compare to the gazebo at Red Rock.
Councilmember Holman said Opolis is enclosed and they do have a garage door facing the street that they
used to open, but they do not anymore. He said Puebla has a covered patio in the back.
Chairman Clark said to clarify that when she suggested cleaning up the definition of outdoor, she meant
she wants the establishments to obtain a Special Use if it is more than a door opening for the sound to
escape versus a whole wall being open.
Councilmember Carter said they should be as liberal as possible and encourage live music.
Councilmember Holman said he often leaves the door open while working at The Deli, but not compared
to a whole wall.
Ms. Hudson asked in that case, Special Use would be needed if the wall is removable. Chairman Clark
said that is what seems reasonable and the City has a Council and community that support live music and
do not want to eliminate it; however, this would ensure that Council is evaluating the ones that might be a
noise disturbance to a local residence. She said to open a whole wall, the noise would be significantly
worse than just the base noise.
Councilmember Holman asked if the Ordinance would address a business or venue that has speakers
mounted on the outside the building; playing music loudly. He said there is one on Campus Corner that
plays the music until approximately 11:00 p.m., nightly, and the music emanates throughout the whole
district.
Mayor Miller said she thought they decided to use the noise ordinance in this case as neighbors complain
instead of making then obtain Special Use for speakers.
Lt. Jeff Robertson, Norman Police Department, said they get complaints regarding several locations on
Campus Corner from some of the surrounding residents and those establishments play music on speakers
mounted outside the facility. He said for the Police Department this is simply a noise complaint, but it
does not necessarily fit under the parameters of the definition for outdoor live music. He said it comes
through a sound system, it is not live entertainment, and the Police Department would handle this
situation just like any other noise complaint.
City Council Oversight Committee Minutes
January 10, 2019
Page 4
Item 1, continued:
Mayor Miller asked if establishments usually comply. Lt. Jeff Robertson said yes, and as far as he
knows, they have not written any citations. He said occasionally the Police will receive a call from an
area resident, go by and ask them to turn the volume down and they comply with the request.
Councilmember Holman asked if the police are proactively enforcing. Lt. Robertson said the police
department has not had a noise officer in over a decade and that officer was the only time the Police
would have proactively enforced the Noise Ordinance. Councilmember Holman said he does not see this
as problematic all the time, but just when the noise is extremely loud.
Ms. Hudson said she wants to make sure she is clear on clearing up the definitions. She said Council is
acknowledging that a venue such as Bison Witches should get a Special Use. Chairman Clark said if they
play music in the area in the back of the establishment with the wall/garage door up, then it qualifies as
outdoor live music because more music is escaping than would a door opening with live indoor music.
Ms. Snider said there are other establishments that have large doors that are available to open and
wonders if the garage door falls under the fully enclosed by permits, solid walls and their roof.
Councilmember Carter asked what do other college towns do. Ms. Snider said they adjust to change just
as the City of Norman does. Councilmember Carter said he goes to several venues and their doors are
open, there is music playing and it is a fun atmosphere. He said that is what it is supposed to be like and
if you do not like that, move away from the campus. Ms. Snider said they do not get many complaints.
Councilmember Carter said he hates to see a bunch of rules if it is not necessary.
Councilmember Holman said there are two venues on Main Street that are very near one another, both
wanting to have events with live music outdoors; creating a battle with one another.
Councilmember Carter said some of the streets in Fort Worth have every bar with a live band going on
outdoors and the area is crowded with people. Ms. Snider said during her research she found that in
locations such as College Station and Austin, they all still have the same issues, and you will find an
article that reads nearby residents are unhappy. Councilmember Holman said he remembers it said that
no cities including Austin allow outdoor live music, anytime, anywhere. Ms. Snider said Austin has a
permitting process.
Councilmember Holman said there are some wanting the City to allow them to have unlimited outdoor
music, anytime, anywhere. Chairman Clark said by creating an Outdoor Live Music permit or zoning
process they can now put into Special Use zoning; reviewing the applicants while protecting others.
Ms. Snider asked if the language includes Bison Witches and includes an open door. Chairman Clark
said the one word that might help clean up the language is four, e.g., four permanent solid walls.
Councilmember Carter said and not a garage door.
Ms. Snider wants to make it clear that Staff is not talking about by reaching out to Bison Witches to
require them to go through a Special Use process. Chairman Clark asked if they would be grandfathered
in. Councilmember Carter said it now sounds like staff wants to make this more restrictive than what it is
now. Ms. Snider asked for clarification if they want to make the definition include those establishments,
e.g., Bison Witches and Penny Hill if they have raise the garage door and have music inside that is
allowed to filter outdoors. Councilmember Clark said she technically thinks this falls under that
definition.
City Council Oversight Committee Minutes
January 10, 2019
Page 5
Item 1, continued:
Councilmember Holman asked staff what the cost of the Special Use Permit is, and how long will that
permit last. Ms. Hudson said the permit goes with the property unless they go out of business for two
years and then the new owner must apply for Special Use again and the cost is approximately $400, as
well as, another $200 for an ownership list. Councilmember Holman asked if they must go through the
Council process before approval. Ms. Snider said yes, that is correct.
Chairman Clark said she is not positive the businesses currently play music, but the ordinance would be
in place if they decided to begin having outdoor live music events; requiring them to go through the
process. Councilmember Holman said he knows that Bison Witches does have music and DJs at times in
the back of the establishment and they raise the door as well; however, he has never heard any
complaints. He asked does the Committee want the existing businesses in Norman to pay $400 to comply
with the requirements. Chairman Clark said if they do not, then they are back to the Puebla dilemma. She
said she is ready to push this forward to Council and see what other Councilmembers think. She said the
City should have a uniform policy that treats everyone fairly.
Chairman Clark said going back to Bison Witches, if they want to play loud music and keep the door shut
there would not be an issue, but when they decide to open the door that is when it becomes an issue.
Councilmember Holman said he agrees to move forward to Council to see what the others think. Mayor
Miller said the Oversight Committee is to a point where they need to send it on to Council and report
what the staff recommends, and Chairman Clark and Councilmember Carter can express their concerns;
hopefully, making a final decision. Chairman Clark agrees.
Chairman Clark asked if Councilmember Carter had anything else to contribute. He said they are on a
different page and feels that the committee members are being to restrictive, but that they can further
discuss the subject during the Council Meeting. The members confirmed they would now move forward
to a Study Session with this discussion.
Item submitted for the record
1. Memorandum dated January 4, 2019, from Jeanne Snider, Assistant City
Attorney, and Jane Hudson, Planning and Community Development, to the
Council Oversight Committee with attachments
Item 2, being:
DISCUSSION REGARDING THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE BACKFLOW PREVENTOR
PROGRAM.
Ken Komiske, Director of Utilities, provided an overview of the Backflow Prevention Program. He
discussed briefly about backflow prevention or cross-connection control and stated this whole issue
surrounds the protection of the public water supply. He said whether someone is talking about the
backflow prevention program and why it is necessary or backflow or cross-connection control, it is
really all the same thing. He said backflow is the unwanted flow of water in the reverse direction
from an unknown source into a potable water supply, e.g., when a commercial business would have
higher pressure than the City’s pressure. They take water from the City’s distribution system and
pump it up with pressure, e.g., a tall building needing to pump up with pressure in order for the water
to reach the top floor of the building or another example would be a commercial business with heat
exchanges such as big boilers or furnaces. The previous are examples of circumstances or situations
that provide an avenue for the water to seep back into our water system and situations Staff want to
avoid.
City Council Oversight Committee Minutes
January 10, 2019
Page 6
Item 2, continued:
Mr. Komiske said another situation to avoid would be back-siphon, defined as the occurrence of a
vacuum (negative pressure) in a water system, which draws the water from an unknown source into a
potable water supply.
Mr. Komiske said cities must protect themselves and provided a few examples of case histories of
backflow or cross connection accidents that have happened and created problems for cities; examples
of those real life instances are listed below and clearly show the importance of the prevention of
such.
• Backflow at a beverage bottling plant;
• Backflow at a carwash;
• Backflow at a pest control facility, chemical plant or agricultural premise;
• Backflow at a fire protection system, premises with an auxiliary water system or one that the
potable water system supplies the cooling system or heat exchange; or
• Backflow at a mortuary, dental office or hospital.
Mr. Komiske said the City of Norman has a first line of protection with Mr. Bob Christian, Permit
Manager, and the Planning Department does a very good job of implementing these requirements up
front. He said their division reviews plans, requires the builder to install the back flow preventer
during construction before a Certificate of Occupancy (CO) is issued. However, once installed the
City does not have an avenue to require ongoing inspections. He said the Oklahoma Department of
Environmental Quality (ODEQ) regulations require the installation of back flow preventers. They do
not allow a physical connection between a line carrying a public drinking supply and a line carrying
water of an unknown questionable quality. ODEQ does not allow connections from any public water
system (PWS) to any device or system that poses a health threat unless it is equipped with an air gap
of at least six inches or two pipe diameters, whichever is larger, above the overflow or drain pipe.
ODEQ does not allow a cross-connection between a public water system and any private water
system. Section 5-204 of the International Plumbing Code (IPC) adopted in the City of Norman
Code of Ordinances, states that the backflow prevention assemblies are critical components that
protect the potable water systems from pollution or contamination sources. The IPC and the
International Residential Code (IRC) require annual inspections be made of all backflow prevention
assemblies to determine whether they are operable.
Mr. Komiske his desire is for the Utilities Department to have a staff member maintain a database for
back flow preventer installments and testing results to assist in the protection of our PWS. The staff
member would not be testing, but would be responsible for notifying businesses of the required
inspection from a certified licensed back flow preventer tester.
Chairman Clark asked if the business would be effected for the day while being inspected.
Mr. Komiske said the letter sent to them would recommend testing and if not done then depending on
the severity of the circumstance, it may require them to install a back flow assembly.
Mr. Komiske said another piece that is not included in the Ordinance, but is part of the IPC, is how
often it should be tested. He said essentially it would ensure that high hazard facilities, e.g., hospitals
and mortuaries that have had histories of potential contamination of the water system are inspected
and tested. Chairman Clark asked how many high hazard locations exist and Ms. Geri Wellborn,
Utilities Manager, said there are approximately 100 locations.
City Council Oversight Committee Minutes
January 10, 2019
Page 7
Item 2, continued:
Councilmember Carter asked when they implemented the back flow preventer ordinance requiring
installation for new construction. Ms. Wellborn said that the City has always required back flow
prevention. Councilmember Carter asked how many places does staff think would not have one in
place. Mr. Komiske said the likelihood of them not having one is slim. The piece that worries staff
is some locations are larger buildings that contain room for multiple businesses, yet they received a
CO because it included plumbing and sewer. He said one year it is a dress barn and the next year it is
a restaurant with an industrial high-pressure dishwasher. He said nobody goes in to follow up on use
and/or equipment.
Councilmember Carter asked if business owners putting in a restaurant without a back flow would be
in violation. Mr. Komiske said yes. Councilmember Carter said the City would then require them to
become compliant and Mr. Komiske said yes.
Councilmember Carter asked what does an inspector generally charge for this type of inspection.
Mr. Komiske said the person, Mr. Christian, who could provide that information just left the meeting.
Mr. Komiske said they are in the beginning stages of this process and budgeted for an additional staff
member for half a year; however, they currently have not hired anyone. They would like to get the
process started to identify stakeholders, training workshops, prioritize needs and develop a program
that meets the needs. Mr. Komiske said Ms. Wellborn has done an excellent job working with
Mr. Christian and Mr. Matt Smith, Facilities Maintenance Supervisor, to check the City facilities to
make sure the City is in compliance before requiring others to be in compliance. Councilmember
Carter asked if the City is currently in compliance. Ms. Wellborn said there are facilities with non-
functioning systems but Staff is getting them maintained.
Chairman Clark asked how long it took to test a system and Mr. Komiske said the test takes about
forty-five minutes. He said there is only one person in the City of Norman that is a certified tester for
back flow preventers. He would like to recommend the City reach out to plumbers and encourage
them to acquire individual licensing for testing certifications and they do not have to be a licensed
plumber to be a certified tester. Chairman Clark asked how many firefighters are certified. Mr.
Komiske said no firefighters are certified but they could be and then have the ability to test the fire
systems.
Councilmember Clark asked how much it costs to obtain the certification and Mr. Komiske said it is
a $500 test.
Councilmember Carter said the City could offer classes here so there are plenty of technicians
available to provide the service. Mr. Komiske said that would be great and for those plumbers that
have apprentices, this would be a great opportunity for additional business.
Chairman Clark asked if the City could facilitate the trainer for training and would there be a cost to
the plumbers. Mr. Komiske said they would be required to pay a licensing fee. Councilmember
Carter said the City of Norman could offer the class here and through the Moore Norman
Technology Center. Mr. Komiske said this is a developing program and not sure what all will be
involved. The City has the ability and means to hire a new staff member; however, that has not
happened yet.
City Council Oversight Committee Minutes
January 10, 2019
Page 8
Item 2, continued:
Chairman Clark asked how long IPC has required this and how long has the City not been following
this requirement. Mr. Komiske said it has probably been decades. Chairman Clark asked if the City
of Norman would be the first in Oklahoma to have this program. Mr. Komiske said yes, but Tulsa is
working toward developing their program.
Councilmember Carter asked if Mr. Komiske is looking for direction from Council since he was
hesitant to hire the new staff member. Mr. Komiske said they need the direction to move forward to
Council with the addition of the ordinance regarding the annual testing of back flow preventers.
Mayor Miller said regarding the Staff’s willingness to offer a workshop, it is always a good idea to
include the building community in advance, as it appears there is need for education. Mr. Komiske
said a constituent of Mr. Sean Rieger, Attorney for Builders Association of South Central Oklahoma
(BASCO), wrote that the back flow preventer inspection seems extremely burdensome to monitor
and he could not imagine how the City would enforce it. Mr. Rieger had commented he thought the
federal laws had changed also.
Mr. Komiske said he told Mr. Rieger he was not aware of the change in law but was willing to view
the documents stating such. Mr. Komiske said the monitoring would be on the City’s new staff
member; requiring the businesses to return test results. Councilmember Carter said during public
meetings where people are so adamantly opposed by something, once you have the opportunity to
explain in a way as Mr. Komiske has done, they are more willing to accept the change.
Councilmember Carter said he is for this and the more communication the better. Chairman Clark
asked if documentation will be returned to the City regarding testing results and Mr. Komiske said
yes.
Chairman Clark asked if this needs to go to Study Session. Mr. Komiske said Staff could set up the
public forums before bringing forth to Council in order to gather more information before our
presentation to full Council. Mayor Miller agreed with that process. Mr. Komiske confirmed they
are going to move forward discussing with area plumbers and the Chamber of Commerce, but are not
going to hire a new staff member at this time.
Item submitted for the record
1. Power Point Presentation entitled Norman Utilities Authority City of Norman
Backflow Prevention Program Protecting the Public Water Supply, dated
January 8, 2019
*****
ADJOURNMENT:
The meeting adjourned at 4:59 p.m.
Agenda
CITY COUNCIL OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE MEETING
MUNICIPAL BUILDING CONFERENCE ROOM
201 WEST GRAY
THURSDAY, JANUARY 10, 2019
4:00 P.M.
1. DISCUSSION REGARDING THE CITY OF NORMAN NOISE
ORDINANCE.
2. DISCUSSION REGARDING THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE
BACKFLOW PREVENTOR PROGRAM.
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