Greenbelt Commission Meeting

GREENBELT COMMISSION MINUTES OF January 27, 2020 The Greenbelt Commission of the City of Norman, Cleveland County, State of Oklahoma, met for the Regular Meeting on January 27, 2020 at 6:00 p.m. Notice and Agenda of the meeting were posted at 201 W Gray Building A, the Norman Municipal Complex and at www.normanok.gov twenty-four hours prior to the beginning of the meeting. ITEM NO. 1 BEING: CALL TO ORDER. Chair George Dotson: Okay, it is now 6:00, so let’s call this meeting to order. Tara, roll call please. ~~~~~ ITEM NO. 2 BEING: ROLL CALL. MEMBERS PRESENT: George Dotson Cody Franklin Robert Huskey Mark Nanny Colin Zink Marguerite Larson Liz McKown MEMBERS ABSENT Samantha Luttrell STAFF MEMBERS PRESENT: Jane Hudson – Director of Planning Tara Reynolds, Admin Tech III Ken Danner – Subdivision Development Manager Beth Muckala – Assistant City Attorney GUESTS PRESENT: Gunner Joyce Jonathan Hudson ~~~~~ ITEM NO. 3 BEING: Approval of the Minutes from December 16, 2019 Regular Meeting. George Dotson: Our next item is the approval of the minutes from our December 16, 2019 meeting. Do I have a motion? Mark Nanny: I’ll make a motion. Robert Huskey: Second. Norman Greenbelt Commission January 27, 2020 Page 2 George: Alright, everyone in favor? Unanimously: Yea George: Anyone opposed?Okay, motion carries. ~~~~ ITEM NO. 4 BEING: Review of the Greenbelt Enhancement Statements: CONSENT DOCKET GBC 20-01 Applicant: Farzaneh Development Project: Turtle Crossing PUD-Single Family Patio Homes Location: South side of East Lindsey Street between 24th Avenue S.E. and 36th Avenue S.E. Request: Preliminary Plat and PUD Zoning: RM-6, Multi-Family and RM-2, Low Density Apartment NORMAN 2025 Land Use: Low Density Residential George Dotson: Now we will move to our first item, GBC 20-01, Turtle Crossing. Do I have a motion? Mark Nanny: I motion to take it off the consent docket. Robert Huskey: I Second. George Dotson: Okay, is the applicant here? Gunner Joyce: Hi I’m Gunner Joyce, here representing the applicant. This PUD, Planned Unit Development, proposes a Home Creations residential neighborhood. Kind of the details behind it the current zoning is R2 and RN6, high density residential uses. The proposal here is to actually bring that down, downzoning if you will near R1, single family residential, or as close as possible. And to kind of tailor it to this development. I think you guys have some of the preliminary plat documents. George Dotson: We do. Gunner Joyce: You can see the proposed layout, 43 residential lots. There is a little bit here to the northwest here…the southwest portion of this neighborhood has a detention area, WQPZ. Which will remain that way. That’s kind of the overarching view of the project. So do you guys have more specific questions I’d be happy to answer. Mark Nanny: The plat you provided showed you were going to be working in the northern half of that, but I was wondering are there plans that eventually connect to Glen Oaks Drive? That southwest corner that goes through that development. Norman Greenbelt Commission January 27, 2020 Page 3 Gunner Joyce: Not at this time. Mark Nanny: Not what you have on the plat, but I mean, is that eventually the plan? Because you’re going to cross over that water quality protection zone area, and I just wanted to know if you were planning to do that because that makes nice connectivity for the school yard, the school and to that park there. People don’t have to go on the arterial roads. And then secondly I was wondering what the plans were to cross over that Water Quality Protection Zone. Gunner Joyce: Yeah, there’s no yet, kind of the reason that southern portion is even included is kind of the plat statute. The same ownership, so since that entire tract is owned by the same person we have to bring it into a preliminary plat that encompasses all of it. Kind of the only reason that portion is even included in the plans. So you are getting into questions that are kind of beyond their thought process at this time. Mark Nanny: Okay, okay. And there’s that lift station there, that going to stay there? Gunner Joyce: I think it is shown on the preliminary plat, right up here northwest. Ken Danner: At some point in time that will be….the proposal is a gravity sewer line from Summit Valley extended up to this area. Robert Huskey: There is an indication of 2.5 acres of common open space. Whose going to take care of that, is there going to be a homeowners association? Gunner Joyce: There will be. Robert Huskey: I’m worried. Homeowner’s associations get involved in problems. Like water ____ all that kind of thing. I haven’t gone out and looked at this, I’m not sure what the land looks like there. Is there a problem there? I know the water detention is somewhere else, I think. Gunner Joyce: I think the natural flow is kind of from north to south across the whole development. And so I’m pretty sure that is kind of the continued proposal. The detention pond here is in the North West, or the southwest portion right by the WQPZ. But I think the plan is to have that detention release into the WQPZ to keep the natural flow down to the south. Robert Huskey: Okay. Marguerite Larson: There’s no connectivity You are putting in sidewalks but it’s just in the perimeter? Gunner Joyce: It will be along the exterior too of the frontage street. That will be 5-foot wide sidewalks and on the interior of the neighborhood will be 4 foot wide. Norman Greenbelt Commission January 27, 2020 Page 4 George Dotson: Will there be on the southern border of the development, will there be any sort of barrier fence or anything there or is that, in between that and the undeveloped part. Gunner Joyce: I don’t think any is shown. George Dotson: Yeah, it appears it would be simple to put up, if nothing else, just a small trail or something there that will allow people to connect on to…even by foot. Mark Nanny: Yeah, to Glen Oaks Drive. George Dotson: Then that would allow anybody going to the school over there, would make a short walk instead of either hike around or be driven over there. I mean, this southern border almost connects to that Glen Oaks Drive as it is. Colin Zink: Seems like that should be our comment. You know, that the planners should take a second look at enabling some kind of connectivity to adjacent neighborhood and school area. Gunner Joyce: Are you guys, for my clarity, talking about at the end of the entire preliminary plat area where no development is proposed? George Dotson: No, right, Glen Oaks Drive comes in about here…So Glen Oaks Drive is somewhere in here. So it would just be like a bicycle and walking trail come down…likely people are going to walk that way anyway, that was my question about a barrier. Because Glen Oaks dead ends about ther Gunner Joyce: So that area is heavily treed right now, I don’t know if it is able to be crossed. A lot of those trees if not all are going to stay because it’s WQPZ. So I don’t think that will ever really be passable by pedestrian. It’s very heavily wooded right there. Any kind of trail or pavement I think kind of goes contrary to that WQPZ anyway. Trying to keep the natural landscaping and plants right there. I think the ordinance might even prohibit a lot of man-made activity right there. Colin Zink: Well yeah, in WQPZ you can’t have any kind of permanent. But even if there was just an opening mowed through that area. Gunner Joyce: You can’t mow though in WQPZ. That’s part of it. And what you are talking about, that whole area is essentially covered. Mark Nanny: Is that correct? They couldn’t even put a footpath through there in the WQPZ? I mean if it’s permeable, like a travel path? Ken Danner: He’s correct as far as mowing. Keep in mind that the final plat that comes in will not include that southern portion. Thereby there would be no dedication of any type of easement or walkability over to Glen Oaks. Norman Greenbelt Commission January 27, 2020 Page 5 George Dotson: Well what we were proposing would not be in that undeveloped portion, well I guess with the lots though…Those lots go all the way to the very back of the…so I understand. Gunner Joyce: I do think, just to add, and you guys probably know this better than I do, but that WQPZ zone is kind of intended to keep any type of potential for pollution out of the water flow. You wouldn’t really want people tracking shoes and stuff through it. George Dotson: So, any other comments? Or? Marguerite Larson: So that undeveloped area going to remain naturalistic? Gunner Joyce: Yeah, at this time. If they want to they have to go through this whole process again with a develop site plan and preliminary plat. Marguerite Larson: And no trees are going to be removed? Gunner Joyce: Not to the south. There’s no plans for it at all. George Dotson: Any further comments? Do we have anything we want to…any comments we want to put into record or… Marguerite Larson: I forgot to ask, where is the parking going to be? Will there be driveways that people can just pull in? Gunner Joyce: That’s the plan. This stage is kind of before that, so they just lay out the lots and kind of address actual site, you know, garage, driveway length after zoning and preliminary plat. But it does call out in the PUD document compliance with City of Norman ordinances about parking. Marguerite Larson: Okay. Colin Zink: It will probably look like every other Home Creations subdivision. Marguerite Larson: Yes, probably. I’m just checking. George Dotson: So, do we have any comments to put forward or not? It appears that… Mark Nanny: It appears that the water quality protection zone… George Dotson: Trumps what we were trying to suggest. So if there is no other comments let’s…alright so do we have a motion to pass this forward? Liz McKown: I make a motion to pass it forward. Robert Huskey: Second. Norman Greenbelt Commission January 27, 2020 Page 6 George Dotson: Alright, all those in favor? Unanimously: Aye. George Dotson: Any opposed? Motion carries. Thank you very much. The other item on our consent, on our docket here is the OnCue GBC 20-02. It’s on the consent docket, is there a motion to take it off or a motion to pass? GBC 20-02 Applicant: OnCue RE, L.L.C. Project: New convenience store and gas station Location: Northwest corner of West Lindsey Street and 24th Avenue S.W. Request: Preliminary Plat Zoning: C-2, General Commercial NORMAN 2025 Land Use: Commercial and Office Marguerite Larson: I move to take it off. George Dotson: Okay, do we have a second? Mark Nanny: I second it. Goerge Dotson: Alright, all in favor? Unanimously: Aye. George Dotson: Any opposed? Motion carries. It’s open for discussion. Marguerite Larson: So, my question is who is here for this one? Gunner Joyce: That would be myself. George Dotson: Ah! Okay. I didn’t know who we had here. Okay. You’re back. Gunner Joyce: I’m back. George Dotson: Would you like to give us a short synopsis before we… Gunner Joyce: Yes, this one is probably a little quicker. This one is going to be an OnCue, a gas station/convenience store probably like the ones you are familiar with. This one is not a use change like the other one, the PUD, this one is compliant with the current zoning. The property is currently zoned C2, general commercial. So no use change needed here. On the preliminary plat document you can see the just under 9,000 square foot building, looks like 10 pumps. They’re adding 8 Norman Greenbelt Commission January 27, 2020 Page 7 bicycle parking spaces here and then there’s a landscape plan which shows 35 trees and a 10 foot landscape buffer between the parking and the right of way. That’s a quick overview of the project. Marguerite Larson: So, when I read this it’s something on 24th, is that right? Gunner Joyce: Right. Marguerite Larson: And Lindsay? George Dotson: This isn’t the one that’s on Classen. Gunner Joyce: Right. Liz: Right off I-35. George Dotson: Yeah. It’s on the West side. Marguerite Larson: Right, but I thought he said, I thought the description said that it was on 24th and Lindsay. George Dotson: It is on 24th and Lindsay. Marguerite Larson: Okay, so on west 24th and Lindsay you have a gas station, you have Sooner Legends, you have a car lot on this side, and a strip mall on this side. So where’s this going to go? Several people: The car lot is gone. George Dotson: The car lot is gone, the lot is clear. There used to be a Sinclair station there years ago. Colin Zink: Just south of Braums, is that right? George Dotson: Yeah. Just south of Braums. Marguerite Larson: I was trying to figure out exactly where this was going because I didn’t realize… George Dotson: The lots been clear for a year. Marguerite Larson: Yeah I didn’t realize that. George Dotson: Any other questions or comments? Gunner Dotson: I don’t think I mentioned it, it’s probably obvious, but there will be added public sidewalks around the site. Norman Greenbelt Commission January 27, 2020 Page 8 George Dotson: Okay. And this thing is microscopic. Marguerite Larson: They’ll have competition on the corner. George Dotson: So, their entrance and exit off 24th, and then it looks like there is also an exit on Springer Drive. Mark Nanny: Looks like there is two. George Dotson: Yeah. Which is just that…it really accesses that sort of area back there. So there is a way to get out other than on 24th. Gunner Joyce: Right. Marguerite Larson: So is there something on Lindsay where you can access from Lindsay or no? George Dotson: No. Gunner Joyce: There’s actually quite a bit of a buffer there. Undeveloped land. *murmurings* George Dotson: Any other questions or comments? Do I have a motion to pass it forward? Liz McKown: I make a motion to pass it forward. Mark Nanny: Second. George Dotson: All in favor say aye. Unanimously: Aye. George Dotson: Any opposed? Motion carries, thank you. Next order of business is the election of the chair and vice chair. I suppose we open it to nominations. ITEM NO. 1 BEING: Election of new Chair and Vice Chair Mark Nanny: I nominate George for chair. Marguerite Larson: Second. George Dotson: Any other nominations? Liz McKown: Sounds great to me to. Norman Greenbelt Commission January 27, 2020 Page 9 Robert Huskey: I move nominations close. George Dotson: Well we have to have a vice chair. I nominate Mark. Marguerite Larson: Second. George Dotson: If there are no other victims we will open it either for approval or… Mark Nanny: I think you have to vote. George Dotson: We have to vote for each one? Alright. Okay. Since we have one nomination for chair…do we have to have a motion? Tara Reynolds: I have a nomination and a second. George Dotson: Okay, we have a nomination and a second. Robert Huskey: Actually, you don’t need a second for a nomination. And there’s only one nomination. He is put in office by acclamation. George Dotson: Yeah, that is what I assumed. Okay, both for chair and vice chair. Thanks guys. No good deed goes unpunished. Next is Mark, if you would like to give us- Mark Nanny: I want you to weigh in as well. ITEM NO. 2 BEING: Report from Commissioner Mark Nanny of the meeting with Councilmember Kate Bierman and the resulting outcomes, followed by a discussion of how the GBC would like to move forward. Commissioner Nanny will also report on Councilmember Bierman’s thought on combining the GBC and the Bicycle Advisory Committee. George Dotson: Alright, Mark and I met with Lee Hall, and Mark and Colin and Samantha met with Kate Bierman. So if you want to start. Mark Nanny: Yeah, I will kind of set the context for everything. First of all, Kate Bierman and Lee Hall really were very generous is giving us time, and was a really delightful conversation. Both of them are really creative and enthusiastic folks. They are very supportive and appreciative of what the Greenbelt Commission does. So we got a lot of good energy and good support from them and they liked our ideas. It was a very very nice meeting. So I am going to kind of summarize it instead of breaking it out into two individual meetings. But the long and short of it was based on our last Greenbelt Commission meeting we wanted to talk to some city council people about you know, the idea of perhaps tweaking the articles that define our responsibilities to make them more clear, less ambiguous. Because there has been some difference of interpretation in the past few months, and we’ve got that resolved, but based on that we think it is a good idea to go ahead and Norman Greenbelt Commission January 27, 2020 Page 10 clarify that. And also really give these articles a good review to upgrade them to make them more contemporary. And both Kate and Lee were very very enthusiastic about that. And one of the ideas we put forward was, you know, we don’t want to change our role as an advisory commission. We recognize that’s our purpose. But we would like to have it more clear we could do things, for example, like to look at ways to help Norman become a greener city. And for example work with developers in such a way to identify incentives that would help them go forth and do green development. And both Kate and Lee really like this idea. Kate even went further and she started listing off areas where there could be incentives. I have them in my notes I can dig them out. It didn’t make a lot of sense to me because I didn’t really quite understand how they worked. But she really encouraged us to review and upgrade the language in article 21 to make it more contemporary and pertinent as well as review our current charges and update them. And of course, of course, all of this, all of this in collaboration with the oversight approval of the planning and development department. And Kate said this was really a good time for us to do this because the oversight committee is reviewing the charges and responsibilities of all the commissions and committees. So our proposal would be really timely. George Dotson: Be very helpful. Mark Nanny: Yeah. So, you know, what I see before us is that we as a commission do look at that article 21. Look at that and see how that can be reworded to make it more clear and anything else we feel needs to be done. Obviously work with the planning and development department and then move up until it’s ready for the oversight committee. So I would propose that between now and our next meeting the same four folks, we take a look at this and bring recommendations to the next meeting or if folks wanted to look at this and come to the next meeting and present your ideas, tell us what you think. We can kind of wordsmith our way to a draft document. We can have Janay or Jane here and they can look at it, deal with it how they feel comfortable with. We can move forward with it. George Dotson: That really should be an agenda item added. Mark Nanny: Yeah, yeah, definitely, thank you George. We should have that as an agenda item. So I figure we can discuss in a few minutes how we want to move forward with that as a group. The second thing we need to discuss as a group tonight is Kate has a…it seems like a very preliminary idea that she is considering as she’s looking at all these committees and commissions and trying to think about how to make it more efficient. She was wondering if the Bicycle committee should be combined with the Greenbelt Commission. And there are certain pros and cons to her proposal but we as a commission need to carefully consider it. Is it beneficial, or not? There’s a lot of ways in which it would be beneficial to be with them, but also on the other hand would it be distracting? Would it dilute what we do? What they do? As I understand they are under the transportation department. George Dotson: As I see it though, their charge is far more narrowly defined than ours. Mark Nanny: Exactly. And also what I understand is that they can really integrate well with federal proposals and stuff for designs of streets and things because bicycles are considered a mode of Norman Greenbelt Commission January 27, 2020 Page 11 transportation. Green belts, walking paths, things like that are not considered transportation. So, to me, as I think about it, it’s kind of force fitting two things.. Robert Huskey: Sometimes when you have two outfits that seem to have intersection you put one member of one committee on another as an ex oficio. Which means they don’t vote, but at least they could bring… George Dotson: There’s a line of communication. Robert Huskey: It seems like a better way of doing this, because trying to merge them because there’s a lot of differences. Mark Nanny: Yes, I agree. George Dotson: I think they are very different. Mark Nanny: I agree too. Well, I wanted to bring this up, you know, I think it’s important for us to send a message appropriate back to Kate and say yeah we like the idea or no we don’t like the idea. So I don’t know…we’ll leave it up to the chair how we want to handle the message. I would be happy to email her or whatever. George Dotson: Yeah, I think maybe we open it for discussion while we are in discussion mode to get a consensus, and then we can forward it on to Kate how we feel and why. Liz McKown: And it might be beneficial to try to redefine what Greenbelt is about before we… George & Mark: Yeah. Liz McKown: Why we feel like it might not be the best combination but I do like your idea of cross members sitting…that way we know what’s going on… Colin Zink: That’s why I’ve been going to Tree Board the last 6 months. Mark Nanny: Yeah, Colin’s been attending Tree Board. Robert Huskey: Yeah that was my next thought. I didn’t know… Liz McKown: I think we are more closely aligned with Tree Board. George Dotson: Yeah, I do too. Colin Zink: So, yes there are similarities, but I wouldn’t propose combining us with Tree Board either. George Dotson: No. Norman Greenbelt Commission January 27, 2020 Page 12 Colin Zink: Just because, you know, even with our updated goals and responsibilities they deal with enough different type subjects that I wouldn’t think we could be combined. Liz McKown: We try to narrow our focus and then it would be obvious we didn’t fit. We don’t fit together. George Dotson: No I agree, I don’t think we fit. So if you would like to communicate with Kate if that seems to be our unanimous feeling I don’t think we need to open it to a vote. Does it seem to suit everybody that we’d like to, we don’t think it’s a good fit? Mark Nanny: Yes. George Dotson: And tell her about the ex oficio. I think that’s a good idea. Means someone is going to have to go to two meetings a month other than one. Colin Zink: I already go to two. George Dotson: I know. Alright, you have immunity from this one. Do we want to appoint someone or does it have to be volunteer? Colin Zink: One thing I would say is it would be an opportunity for collaboration would be because they raised the money for that bicycle skills park. George Dotson: Yeah. Colin Zink: So if we see any, like the presentation that was here earlier, the WQPZ, they could tell about how to go about getting the manpower to make a footpath. That sort of collaboration could be useful. Mark Nanny: Yes, I agree. George Dotson: Something that is probably a discussion for the next meeting or agenda item I think we need to look at ways to get… Mark Nanny: I just want to make sure this is appropriate that I send a message to Kate Bierman and of course include you, and you, and Janay on it. Beth Muckala: Yeah, coming directly from you just avoid copying the entire commission. Mark Nanny: Yes. Yes. Jane Hudson: To decline the offer? Norman Greenbelt Commission January 27, 2020 Page 13 Mark Nanny: Yes, yes that’s right to decline the offer. We discussed it and we are unanimous in our thinking that it wouldn’t be a good fit, but we did come up with the idea of an ex oficio person. We would like to do that. Jane Hudson: Do they vote on that? Does an ex oficio person have to go through the mayor or anything like that? Beth Muckala: …it would be subject to the same system unless that were to change but I’m not aware of any other board or commission that acts differently at this point. *murmurings* Mark Nanny: Okay, okay, well I will king od leave that off for now. We are looking for ways, such as, for example. George Dotson: Yeah. You can just send it from both of us. Mark Nanny: I’ll include you. George Dotson: Yeah. Beth Muckala: Can I just add one thing? You mentioned having a meeting? I just heard same 4 people. I just wanted to make sure if we have a quorum it’s going to be an open meeting. George Dotson: Right, yeah. Mark Nanny: Right, and we understand that. George Dotson: Right, it’s always 4 or less if we do anything out of here. I’ll withhold my comments I was going to make until next time. Do we have anything else? Mark Nanny: I would say how would we like to proceed with reviewing article 21? Do we all want to do it on our own and come to the next meeting and discuss? Or would you like the 4 who have been working on this to come forward with some ideas? I guess it could be all of the above. George Dotson: Think it wouldn’t hurt. We have already suggested we make an agenda item. But I think maybe 4 of us could meet before the next meeting and sort of review it and talk it through and see if there’s anything we could add to it. Mark Nanny: Okay. Tara I’ll send out what I took off the city website and put it in a word doc and send it to you, and you can distribute it to everybody. If you all want to do your own wordsmithing. Marguerite Larson: I want to review it before I talk about it. Norman Greenbelt Commission January 27, 2020 Page 14 George Dotson: Right, everyone needs to review it before we talk about it. We want 4 of us to get together at some point before next. See who is available and interested and we’ll do that. Mark Nanny: Okay. ITEM NO. 3 BEING: Miscellaneous Discussion of Greenbelt Commissioners and Staff. George Dotson: Alright. Any other discussion, any other issues anybody wants to bring up? If not, we are adjounned. ~~~~~ ITEM NO. 7 BEING: Adjournment. The meeting was adjourned at 6:37 pm. ~~~~~ Passed and approved this __________ day of ________________________________, 2020. ___________________________________________ George Dotson, Chair