City Council

Minutes from the Petersburg City Council Budget Work Session meeting held on: March 29, 2017 -1– ______________________________________________________________________________ The work session of the Petersburg City Council was held on Wednesday, March 29, 2017, at the General District Court. Mayor Parham called the budget work session meeting to order at 6:30p.m. 1. ROLL CALL: Present: Council Member Charles H. Cuthbert, Jr Council Member Darrin Hill Council Member W. Howard Myers Council Member Annette Smith-Lee Council Member Treska Wilson-Smith Vice Mayor John A. Hart, Sr. Mayor Samuel Parham Absent: None Present from City Administration: Interim City Manager Tom Tyrrell Interim Finance Director Nelsie Birch City Attorney Joseph Preston Clerk of Council Nykesha D. Jackson, CMC 2. PURPOSE: a. Budget Work Session on Debt and Budget policies b. Capital Budget c. Utilities Mr. Tyrrell stated that there is a lot of information this evening to provide to City Council. He stated that there are a couple breaking highlights that they will see along the way. He stated that on the agenda it is the budget and debt policies, utilities and the capital improvement program. He stated that they want to start with the capital improvements program. Jack Berry, Interim Deputy City Manager, went through a PowerPoint presentation on the Capital Improvement Plan. He stated that they are going to do an overview of the capital budget and some of the financial restraints. He stated that they are going to highlight what is in the budget year and then they are going to go over utility. He stated that the capital budget is year one and that this is FY18. He stated that this is the year that they have money for and the year that they are going to do these projects. He stated that the other four years of the program are for planning purposes. He stated these funds have not been identified. He stated that the capital budget introduces infrastructure. He stated that it is usually funded by bonds. He stated that they have a team of City employees that have helped to put the budget together and are present to answer questions. Council Member Wilson-Smith stated that under major impact of funding limitations there is McKenney Library repairs. She asked that since the library is not being used for a library anymore is there documentation that states that the building reverts to the family who donated the library. Mr. Tyrrell stated that this does exist. He stated that they have been trying to contact the family and that they have shown no interest in getting the building back. He stated that they can also make the argument that it is not being used as a library now but that they may intend to have some related use as they go forward. He stated that they are trying to protect it from water damage. He stated that currently there is no activity along that line. *Audio available  Minutes from the Petersburg City Council Budget Work Session meeting held on: March 29, 2017 -2– ______________________________________________________________________________ Council Member Wilson-Smith stated that she asked the question so that the City would be legally correct and that if they are putting $50,000 in repairs of the building that it would remain in the hands of the City. She stated that she is only going by memory of the building not being used as a library that it would go back to the family. She asked Mr. Preston if he could research this information. She stated that this is $50,000 that the City can do something else with. Mr. Tyrrell stated that this would be in FY20, so they have some time to research this information out before the funds would be used. Council Member Smith-Lee stated that she has a question regarding under the five-year proposed plan under CIP. She asked whether the state transit grant a grant that is funded every year and guaranteed. Mr. Berry stated that this would be to buy a bus, a paratransit van and some more shop equipment. Council Member Cuthbert stated that he would like to go back to the McKenney Library topic. He asked would the $50,000 be for three years from now. Mr. Berry responded yes. He stated that if the council wants to try and accelerate this, he thinks that there is latitude to do that. He stated that if they want to get it out of FY20 and get it in FY19 there may be some latitude in the five-year plan. He stated that they don’t think that there is too much latitude in the budget year. Council Member Cuthbert stated he does not know if he advocates in spending money sooner but that he is advocating in deciding sooner. He stated that $50,000 is going to be 1/10 or 1/20 of what is to be required three years from now. He stated that this is a lot of preventive maintenance. He stated that he thinks that the building is showing signs of age and the building is abandoned. He stated that he is edging around to the fact that they need to decide soon. He stated that they may need to make a long-term decision on the building and that he does not have a solution. He stated that time is not on their side. He stated that on page 10 he wants to talk about the stormwater fees. He stated that it was mentioned that the City had to payback. He asked was there any schedule to pay back the stormwater funds, how much and when. Ms. Birch stated that $1.8 million is what the City needs to pay back to the stormwater fund. She stated that her focus has been on making sure that the authorities are paid and the vendors. She stated that in reference in the City paying itself back there needs to be some other leisure of money so that this can be done quickly. She stated that this is the priority out of all the funds that need to be paid back. She stated that this is because of the inappropriateness use of the bond funds for general fund operating cash. She stated that for example it could have been used to pay payroll. She stated that paying it back likely will not be this or next fiscal year unless the City had a major cash event. Council Member Cuthbert stated that this needs to be in a collective conscience that they need to pay this back. Ms. Birch stated that the audit will pick this up and that it will carry forward. She stated that any future finance director will have this over their head to fix. She stated that this is part of their plan as they transition over the first quarter of next year. She stated that they would focus a lot on this. Council Member Cuthbert stated that he had a question in regards to information on page nine regarding revenue rates. He stated that this is also depending on the City’s credit rating which is at a very low level now. He stated that he is wondering if it is possible to come up with a table that would give them some idea as to how much debt they could borrow if they increase the utility rates to “x”. He stated also in regards to *Audio available  Minutes from the Petersburg City Council Budget Work Session meeting held on: March 29, 2017 -3– ______________________________________________________________________________ how much if they increased the revenue rates to “x” plus “y”. He stated that this would allow them to see some sort of correlation of the amount of money that they could anticipate borrowing. Mr. Berry stated that they resorted this in the budget in the next presentation after this. He stated that they laid out a five-year rate increase that would fund this capital budget. He stated that if they want to do the $52 million for the budget in which they recommend that the City tries to do then there is a plan that is developed by the rate consultant. He stated that there are different scenarios that they can work on more or less. He stated that they have not shown impact on a typical utility bill. Council Member Cuthbert stated that the City has infrastructure needs. He thanked Mr. Berry. Council Member Hill stated that his concerns are with the schools saying that there is a need for new schools. He asked that this does not affect taking care of the actual schools that currently exist now. Mr. Berry stated that the five-year CIP does have projects in each of the years that deal with things like repairs, roofs and boilers and window replacement. He stated that they have tried to put all the projects that deal with renovations and repairs in the five-year plan. He stated that the ones that they kicked out the budget all the way is the new things. He stated that they have kept all the requested projects of repairs. Council Member Hill stated that this is a great concern of his. He stated that they sacrifice a lot. He stated that if they can come up with a plan like Council Member Cuthbert stated then maybe they can do something soon or for the long run. He stated that if they can take care of the existing buildings he is fine with this. Ms. Birch stated to Council Member Hill that he raised a good point. She stated that one of the things that she wants to make sure that they are one the same page about is about utility rates. She stated that the rates that Council Member Cuthbert stated are only for water and wastewater utility. She stated that for schools the City makes their local contribution and on top of that pay the debt service for any of the work that they need. She stated that they need to get the general fund revenue base up so that they support the infrastructure of the schools. She stated that she thinks that they are being a little aggressive in FY19. She stated that with the work that they are doing in FY18 they hope that this changes FY19 for the better. Mr. Berry stated that if they are successful on the revenue side then they will be able to do some of these things. He stated that he real challenges are on the revenue side. Council Member Wilson-Smith stated that after hearing about stormwater money going else. She stated that they know the grant for the fire trucks went elsewhere. She asked what are they putting in place to assure that line item monies are spent only on or used for what they are designated for. She asked what are they putting in place to make sure that this same thing does not happen again. Mr. Berry stated that the first thing is financial policies. He stated that the City has financial policies for a while and that they have not been followed. He stated that the City had administration that did not do their job. He stated that they are feeling the consequences of that now. He stated if they have a City management that does this and follow the policy then they should not have this problem again. Ms. Birch stated that what did not occur when they walked through the door was an understanding of who gets paid what, when, where, why and how. She stated that they did this. She stated that they had to move mountains to get to this point. She stated that they are getting kudos and emails on doing a good job. She stated that there are records of double payment. She stated that this has happened repeatedly. She stated the treasury pulled in the money for the fire grants but communication did not happen in finance that they need the grant that came in. She stated that they just looked at it as cash in the door and not cash for the *Audio available  Minutes from the Petersburg City Council Budget Work Session meeting held on: March 29, 2017 -4– ______________________________________________________________________________ grant. She stated that there was no process to link this together. She stated that she hired a person to write SOPs on everything that they do. She stated that when the 10% came in and the City lost a lot of employees then all the knowledge went out the window in a crisis. She stated that they have been focusing in finance to make sure that things are done correctly. She stated that the grant policy is in the budget. She stated that they are tightening this up so that everyone is aware of the process. Vice Mayor Hart stated that he has heard Ms. Birch state this a couple of times in regards to duplicate payment and invoices. He stated that this goes into the point on whether they have been overpaying people also and if so have they tried to recoup this money back. Ms. Birch stated that this is an area that was eyes wide open. She stated that when they did the RAN there were a couple of attorneys and vendors that were paid out of it. She stated that at the same time they had sent an invoice to the City. She stated that finance did not know that the invoices had come in and got paid by the RAN. She stated that the attorney gave back the check. She stated that this is one of the areas that they are focusing the forensic audit on. She stated that they are going to ask them to look for duplicate payments and invoices. She stated that she knows that they have not caught everything. Council Member Cuthbert asked Ms. Birch how do they less likely in the future make sure that grant money is spent on specific matters. He asked is there some type of monthly report that could be given to council that would help them. Ms. Birch stated that she does not perceive a way where she could do this monthly. She stated that she can tell them that this is something to consider. Mr. Tyrrell stated that they are going to strongly recommend council adopt at the next regular meeting on Tuesday a financial policy that is very comprehensive and well written that they have ignored and not followed. He stated that they would adopt this resolution with some teeth. He stated that there are some aspects of the policy that they are going to work with the City Attorney on to get adopted as an ordinance in which it would be violating the law if you did not follow the ordinance once approved. He stated that they want to put in a firewall of all the policies. Ms. Birch stated that FY16 audit that will be given to council will have some clear things in it that they need to change. She stated that this covered with the forensic audit and the hiring of an external auditor which is in the FY18 will be the person to check to make sure these things happen monthly. She stated that this is what they want to know. She stated that this way they are not surprised when the next year comes out and nothing is improved. She stated that this is what they recommend for City Council. She stated that once they leave they have the assurance that these are the things that will continue to take place. Council Member Cuthbert stated that this is such a painful injury that the City has suffered. He stated that he thinks that they all are sensitive to it. He stated that he does not think that they can over emphasize it. He stated that perhaps when they get the auditor that they can remember to acquire of the auditor on the front of certification that the funds of a particular grant were spent only for the purposes of that grant. He stated that council needs to be included in the loop. Ms. Birch stated that at the second meeting of every month is when finance will present a financial update and report so that they see the check list that the auditor puts together. Mr. Berry stated that the next item up is the utility budget. He stated that the big change in the budget is the fact that they are creating a new department of public utilities. He stated that it will be the largest department in City government by far as far as budget amount. He stated that it is a revenue generating self- supporting department. He stated that it is going to include all the items on the water bill. He stated that this *Audio available  Minutes from the Petersburg City Council Budget Work Session meeting held on: March 29, 2017 -5– ______________________________________________________________________________ department will have key functions and an infrastructure responsibility. He stated that it will be heavy on operations. He stated that it is more like a business and enterprise. Council Member Smith-Lee stated that she would like to know about other contractual services that is under water and wastewater services. Mr. Berry stated that this would be like professional consultants and engineers. He stated that this would also be maintenance as well and repairs. He stated that there is a capital reserve in case of a water main break. Council Member Wilson-Smith stated that she would like to ask some questions in regards to the document that they received the other night. She stated that on page 106 it is indicated that personnel cost has increased and on page 107 it is spelled out indicating that it is at a cost of $477,000 which is restoring the10% of their salaries. She stated that it also indicates an additional seven authorized positions. She asked can they tell her what the positions are and who authorized them. Mr. Berry stated that no one has authorized them yet. He stated that they are requesting that City Council authorize them as part of the budget. He stated that this is an additional seven positions from where they are today. He stated that this is to basically formulate another maintenance crew. He stated that they will have a big crew to fix pipes and water main breaks. He stated that this is all about getting things fixed in a timely manner. Council Member Wilson-Smith stated that there is a big increase in office supplies on page 109. She stated that it increased from $7,000 to $20,000. Mr. Berry stated that these are for the blank bills that they print out in the envelope. He stated that he would not put a lot of stock in comparing the two columns. He stated that they do not think the FY17 budget column can be reliable. He stated that this is an amendment and they have not refreshed the budget for utilities like they have the rest of the budget. Council Member Wilson-Smith asked where the same thing applies to the food line item. She stated that food wen from $500 to $2,000. Mr. Berry stated that this is for when workers come out on emergencies and spend the night working in the City then this would be typical to be fed by the City. Council Member Wilson-Smith asked in regards to the cut-off fee, who pays for it. Mr. Berry stated that when you have to get your services reinstated there is a cut-off that you have to pay. He stated that there is a lot of paperwork on the City’s part and getting a person to go out and turn it back on and unlock it. Council Member Wilson-Smith asked whether customers pay the City to cut their water off and then another amount to cut it back on. Mr. Berry stated no to cut back on. He stated that it is a reconnection fee. Council Member Wilson-Smith stated that the wording had her stomped. She stated that on page 111 it states that the City plans to bring oversight refuse collections and contract management in-house and not outsource the CVWMA. She asked can someone explain this to her. *Audio available  Minutes from the Petersburg City Council Budget Work Session meeting held on: March 29, 2017 -6– ______________________________________________________________________________ Mr. Tyrrell stated that the way that the authority is set up there are no benefits on the scale because of the contract agreements. He stated that they pay an amount overhead to be a member of that authority and that they have not identified the benefit of this. He stated that they are going to go out on their own to see if they can do better. Council Member Wilson-Smith asked Mr. Tyrrell can he explain when he says out on their own. Mr. Tyrrell stated that they will bring a contractor in and have a direct contract and provider as opposed of having it managed by the authority. Council Member Wilson-Smith asked does the City have a contract with the authority. Mr. Tyrrell stated that the City is a member of the authority. Council Member Wilson-Smith asked whether there was a fee to stop using them. Mr. Tyrrell stated that there is no fee to stop using them but that the City has to give a 90-day notice and not appropriate for next year. He stated that it is not in the budget. Council Member Wilson-Smith stated that she is a little concerned about the number that was given to them in regards to the number of fire hydrants. She stated that it is certainly lower than the last two numbers that they received. She stated that the last number that they received from this administration was 1,500. She stated that prior to that administration it was 1,700. She asked how crucial is it to have the exact numbers to establish an accurate accounting system. Mr. Tyrrell stated that they know how many there are. He stated that he has it in the presentation that they are getting ready for on Tuesday to present to council. He stated that he does not have it off top of his head but that it is around 1,375. He stated that they are mapping them and that it has been a process. He stated that they saw the five-year plan with the rate increase of 13.4%. He stated that he wanted to emphasize that they know that it is not affordable for this or any community. He stated that they are going to create an affordability target rate plan. He stated that they will see if they have an alternative to keep it affordable for the community. He stated that there will be rate increases and that there will be some for sure in 2018. He stated that for the other four years of the plan this is where they will have the alternative plan in. He stated that this can be the franchise agreement with someone or they sell the water. He stated that they have some other process involved that allows the City to share the burden with another partner. He stated that these are the things that they are looking at. He stated that they have shared this with the Adhoc Committee. He stated that they know that they are going to have to do something else and that they are currently looking at alternatives. He stated that privatization is one of them. He stated that they will attempt on Tuesday of getting council to vote to let them open the envelope for the PPEA process. He stated that he does not want anyone to be surprised upon receiving the packets on tomorrow. He stated that the experts have said that there is a $52 million-dollar problem. He stated that at the same time they want to have wins across the board. He stated that they get that it is a crazy number but that this is where they are at the current moment. Mayor Parham asked Mr. Tyrrell is there a timeframe on replacing the 1100 cubic feet meters or a plan in place. Mr. Berry stated that they talked to a vendor today that is interested in doing that work. He stated that they are working with Nelsie to identify the funding that would enable them to do this. He stated that it would be so much more accurate and read remotely so that they would not have to go out and look at a dial. He stated that the rates that are proposed for FY17 and FY18 are within the EPA affordability index. He stated that the thresholds for water bills is two and a half percent of median households. He stated that the rate after adopted *Audio available  Minutes from the Petersburg City Council Budget Work Session meeting held on: March 29, 2017 -7– ______________________________________________________________________________ in FY18 will be 0.8%. He stated that they are well within threshold for affordability for water. He stated that with wastewater is not so good. Council Member Cuthbert asked Mr. Berry where are the EPA threshold figures that he mentioned. Mr. Berry stated that they are in the rate study that they received through them. He stated that they can provide the source and information on how it is determined for Petersburg. Council Member Cuthbert stated that he is sure that it is available online somewhere. Mr. Berry stated that he is sure that it is. He stated that the person that did it is on some national committee that does these. He stated that the gentleman is a real expert on this. Council Member Cuthbert stated to Mr. Berry to get the information to Ms. Jackson so that she may forward it to City Council. He asked Mr. Tyrrell that with the 74% increase it got by him. He asked what page this information is on. Mr. Tyrrell stated that it is on the slide of the page that has the five-year rates. He stated that it has 14.3% and then it has four consecutive after it. Council Member Cuthbert stated that he sees it on page 34 under new rate study. Mr. Tyrrell stated that he does want to emphasis that FY18 is good. He stated that it is the other 60% that has the problem. Council Member Cuthbert stated that he would like to go back to page 25. He stated that the billing and collection problems are huge. He stated that he has a friend that comes from a merchandising background. He stated that he compared the utility department to a grocery store that did not have a cash register. He stated that it was some painful humor to it. Mr. Berry stated that he can tell them something that was not a joke. He stated that a customer came in today that the City had not received payment from for some time. He stated that he was pretty ticked about it. He stated that he saw it as an opportunity to let the person know how important it is for him to pay his bill. He stated that it turns out that the person has not gotten a bill in the last year. He stated that not only that when they went and checked on the meter it was installed backwards and the dial was running in reverse. He stated that it had not been any usage. He stated that this is the type of problem that they are dealing with. Council Member Cuthbert stated that he is delighted that the focus is on this. He stated that the light bulb has come on to him regarding revenue. He stated that with this as a focus he would like to go back with Mr. Tyrrell’s comment or Mr. Berry comment in fixing this soon. He stated that he would like to know the game plan and the components to this. He asked when are they going to be accomplished. Mr. Berry stated that they will have some time now to focus on the operation and not the budget. He stated that they want to flow chart the situation. He stated that it shows how the meters are read and how it gets to the system and the time that it is paid. He stated that they want to understand the process backwards and forwards. He stated that they want to make sure that the staff is in an appropriate position. He stated that they want to bring in potential resources at a surge to get caught up in getting to the delinquent customers. He stated that they want to look at replacing the meters and outsourcing the entire billing and collecting operation. He stated that someone may be able to do it better. He stated that they want to look at the software and have a better interface with the meters. He stated that there are millions of dollars at stake here. *Audio available  Minutes from the Petersburg City Council Budget Work Session meeting held on: March 29, 2017 -8– ______________________________________________________________________________ Council Member Cuthbert stated that he would like to move towards a concrete answer. He stated that it would be better to see a written plan or achieving the components rather than hearing the questions. Mr. Berry stated that he notices the pattern of Council Member Cuthbert questions and that he will have this information at the second meeting in June. He stated that they will provide a written plan. Council Member Cuthbert asked when do they think that they can do this. Mr. Berry stated that he thinks by the end of the fiscal year. Council Member Cuthbert stated that this would be great. He stated that he heard through the grapevine that they are going to start billing every other month. Mr. Berry stated that he thinks that this is going to be a part of the analysis. He stated that they have to look at what other jurisdictions are doing and find out why the current process is not working so well. He stated that he personally thinks that it is better to send someone a $60 bill every month instead of $120 bill every two months. He stated that they must make sure that they have a process that works with the treasurer office so that they can apply delinquent penalties when they are due. He stated that right now they are not applying it because they are afraid that someone is going to get a delinquent fee when they paid but the check was not processes. He stated that another thing that they need to look at is that they cannot afford to miss half of a cycle, cash wise. He stated that they are going to look at all these options. He stated that there are pros and cons in doing this. Council Member Cuthbert stated that he would like to pre-amp this option and start putting the weight on the side of doing it monthly. He stated that he is passing out some paperwork. He stated that he thinks that this is a significant decision but that this has its own impact. He stated that he realizes that everyone is just seeing the paperwork for the first time. He stated that cash flow is how the City pays its bills. He stated that they heard tonight that Petersburg is at a 70% collection rate in which the other jurisdictions are at a 92% rate. He stated that this is a potential liquidity event if they can fix this. Mr. Berry stated that they share all the concerns. He stated to Council Member Cuthbert that his numbers are low. He stated that this will be a part of the analysis. He stated that they are certainly not going to do anything cuts the fact. He stated that they just want to look at everything and come back with completed steps that analyze everything and bring it back on the table. Council Member Smith-Lee stated that on page 107 under utilities it says personnel cost are increased by $477,000 reflecting the restoration of the 10% cut made in FY17 and the additional seven authorized positions would be an addition to the maintenance crew. She stated that also on page 52 under personnel, under utilities it says that there is a decrease of five personnel staff under utilities. She stated that if there is a decrease how can they increase by seven employees. Ms. Birch stated that she will go back and reanalyze her numbers. She stated that she had to compare apples to apples. She stated that there were certain positions that were funded and she could have been adding this to it. She stated that she has to go back and look at her numbers. Council Member smith-Lee asked that there will not be a decreased in employees. Ms. Birch responded no. She stated that they are getting an additional seven. She stated that this comes from the splitting of the two departments. Council Member Hill stated that he was looking at the chart that Council Member Cuthbert passed out. *Audio available  Minutes from the Petersburg City Council Budget Work Session meeting held on: March 29, 2017 -9– ______________________________________________________________________________ He stated that the 30 to 90 days is bi-monthly. He stated that it may help to go bi-monthly. He stated that they do not have the staff. He stated that it was not just the meters that were put in backwards. He stated that it was because they could not handle the volume with all the clients every month. He stated that the bills would come out wrong. He stated that they have to be very careful with things. He stated that they were told one thing to have more cash to come in and it sounded like a good idea when they made the decision. He stated that it was told it would be a better cash flow coming. He stated that looking at the results it was not the case. He stated that they really need to look at it with the results that they have right now. Mr. Tyrrell stated that they cannot do it monthly the way that they would like to do. He stated that they have four people working very hard on a 1970 system with an extended collection cycle and mixed meters. He stated that they know that they need to change something. He stated that they talked about the flow chart. He stated that they can figure this out and that it is on them. Vice Mayor Hart stated that one of the things that concerned him is the hardware and software portion. He stated that he thinks that if the City upgrades the software then they can eliminate a lot of issues. He stated that they can basically go to sending the bills via email. He stated that these are other components that they need to look at. He stated that other localities have this software. He stated that he agrees that they must move from the 70s. He stated that they may not need as many people if the City has sufficient software. He stated that they have tried everything to fix the problem except to start over at zero. He stated that they will not know if they start at high numbers. Mr. Tyrrell stated that they had an interesting call from a City that has 985,000 water meters. He stated that they read them hourly. He stated that it is not something that cannot be done. Mr. Berry stated that they will diagnose the situation. Council Member Wilson-Smith stated that she had one last question to ask. She asked whether they have checked with all the businesses in regards to them being charged and paying their bills. Mr. Berry stated that this is exactly what they are doing. He stated that it is a slow process and that they want to make sure that they get everyone. Janelle Sinclair, Utility Billing Supervisor, stated that they are going to manually put their eyes on five to ten accounts per month at Fort Lee and go west and then they are going to go south. She stated that they will cover the entire City and that they are going to start with their commercial accounts. She stated that they do not want anyone to feel like they are being picked on. She stated that they will be doing all the commercial accounts. Mr. Berry stated that they are comparing partial accounts with utility accounts. He stated that they are comparing every real estate account with the utility file and that they are going to try and figure out everything. Council Member Smith-Lee asked Ms. Birch in reference with the positions can she get the information of positions to her by Tuesday if possible. Ms. Birch stated that she is going to let them know information that made it very difficult for them. She stated that it is not an excuse and she will get the information to them. She stated that the last time the City did a position allocation was in FY16. She stated that when FY17 was produced this was not done. She stated that they pulled the budget authority and not the position. She stated that they are eliminating positions and funding in this budget. She stated that she is still counting 35 positions. She stated that they had to piece a lot of information together. *Audio available  Minutes from the Petersburg City Council Budget Work Session meeting held on: March 29, 2017 - 10 – ______________________________________________________________________________ Mr. Tyrrell stated that in FY16 there was a $6 million-dollar deficit. He stated that it was over $9 million that was not audited. He stated that as attempting as it is to compare both years it is very difficult. He stated that it was not the normal year last or the year before. He stated that when they look at organizational numbers or changing numbers there are two things to look at. He stated that they have to look at how they are being paid for and the other is they may actually have some outsourcing aspect of that department. He stated that it is not requested in the personnel account but that it is requested in the budget. He stated that the numbers are tricky and that they have to answer one by one. Council Member Hill stated that he would like to set up a meeting soon with the Adhoc Committee so that they can hear from them. He stated that he would like to get a report from them. Council Member Wilson-Smith asked that if they budget that they have before them is based on outsourcing some of the departments. Mr. Tyrrell stated that it includes some and doesn’t include others. Council Member Wilson-Smith asked what departments doesn’t it include. Ms. Birch stated that in the facilities department it is outsourcing the janitor and facility maintenance. She stated that in the parks and recreation department they are outsourcing the recreation programing and the grants. She stated that they are outsourcing payroll and risk management. Council Member Wilson-Smith stated that she is not understanding it. She stated that when they discussed the renewal of the Robert Bobb contract she remembers specifically asking Mr. Bobb whether the renewal included outsourcing or would he come back to them with this. She stated that perhaps this is coming back to them but that if the numbers are based on already outsourcing and council has not discussed or agreed upon outsourcing she does not understand how they can make a budget based on this. Mr. Tyrrell stated that this is the City Manager’s proposed budget. He stated that it does not become a budget until June 6th when it is adopted. He stated that the work sessions are intended that as they roll forward that they go through the different departments and come to that conclusion. Council Member Wilson-Smith asked whether there is a back-up in case they do not want to outsource. She stated that in her thinking that this says to her that they are proposing to outsource and there their numbers are made up based on the proposal. She stated that their discussion at the last meeting said that they would come to council about their resource. Ms. Birch stated that City Council is providing their recommendation and that they can see exactly what she has taken out of the budget. She stated that if they say they do not want this and that they want to keep it in house then she would discuss what it means. She stated that payroll does not need to be done in house. She stated that no one does payroll in-house. She stated that there can be mistakes and that there is only one person doing it. She stated that this is not what they should be doing as a City. She stated that these are conversations that they should be having. She stated that they have been a risk doing it the current way. She stated that they can get a better service at equal or lesser money. She stated that if they do not want to outsource a certain function or whatever reason then they have to look and see what is available in the budget. She stated that she put aside $500,000 in facilities to do outsourcing to do janitorial and facilities maintenance. She stated that if there is a decision not to do this then they would use the $500,000 to payback the employees. She stated that there are the areas where they have done an analysis and used their judgement. She stated that they understand the risk and no what the market is suggestion. She stated that these are the areas that they are pursuing. *Audio available  Minutes from the Petersburg City Council Budget Work Session meeting held on: March 29, 2017 - 11 – ______________________________________________________________________________ Council Member Wilson-Smith stated that when they separate maintenance from utilities and they would like to outsource utility billing. She asked could this be one of the reasons for difference in numbers. Mr. Tyrrell stated that this is not one of the areas in the budget. Council Member Wilson-Smith stated that it says utility billing. She stated that it says that they gather information regarding the services that they provide. She stated that from regarding the information that utility billing is included in the outsourcing. Mr. Tyrrell stated that they did not take the budget yet. He stated that they do not know if this is their answer yet. He stated that the ones that they feel are the best use of funds for the City will be put in the budget and the others will still be evaluated. Council Member Wilson-Smith stated that it appears to her that to make a budget on the outsourcing that they would have had information on both. She asked how can they choose if they only gave them information based on outsourcing and that they have not decided on outsourcing. She stated that if they decide at the last meeting in May and say they do not want to do this them there is not enough time for changes. She stated that based on what she sees that everything is based on outsourcing and that they have not decided to do so. Mr. Tyrrell stated that this is the City Manager’s proposed budget. He stated that they believe that these are the best things for the City. He stated that for whatever reason they want to take this out and revisit it, he stated that they will do this. He stated that this is his best recommendation on how to use the funds for FY18. He stated that this is what it represents. He stated that there are tons of decisions that they had to make and that it is not just outsourcing. He stated that this is the reason why it took so long. Council Member Cuthbert stated that he would like to follow-up on Council Member Hill suggestion of a meeting with the Adhoc Committee. He asked Mayor Parham if he has any suggestions on how they would set the meeting up. Mayor Parham stated that they will look at their schedule of meetings and pick a date. Council Member Cuthbert asked when is the 4th Thursday. He asked has this meeting past. He stated that they can look at the second Thursday in April. Council Member Hill stated that everyone must look at their calendar to make sure that they are available on the suggested date. Council Member Cuthbert asked whether this date is acceptable or if Council Member Hill would like this meeting to be sooner than the suggested date. Council Member Hill stated that this is fine. He stated that his main thing was that they have at least two weeks prior to the meeting. He stated that he does not want to be meeting just to be meeting. He stated that they have a lot of committees that they do not hear from and that they do not know what they are doing. He stated that he thinks that they need to start talking to all the committees. He stated that he does not want one person to relay the information he wants the entire committee to relay information. He stated that the clerk can come up with a time for the committee and City Council to meet. Council Member Cuthbert asked will the meeting be on the second Thursday in April. *Audio available  Minutes from the Petersburg City Council Budget Work Session meeting held on: March 29, 2017 - 12 – ______________________________________________________________________________ Mayor Parham stated that the clerk will send out the information regarding the date and time for everyone. Council Member Cuthbert stated that he did not understand. He asked what date will be circulating. Mayor Parham stated that the first one will be the second Thursday. Council Member Cuthbert asked whether this will be an open session or closed. Council Member Hill stated that it will be an open session. He stated that it will be a dialogue between council and the committee. He stated that there will be no outside comments. Council Member Wilson-Smith asked whether there is a council liaison person for this committee. Mayor Parham stated that it is Council Member Cuthbert. Council Member Wilson-Smith asked isn’t it the duty of the council member to come to council with the reports from the committee. Council Member Cuthbert stated that he was not asked to serve until after the first meeting. He stated that he has only attended the meeting last Thursday night. He stated that he took notes on this and that he will be glad to report at the regular meeting. Council Member Wilson-Smith stated that for each committee there is a council member to represent each of the boards and that it is up to that council member to report back to City Council at the council meetings with reports. He stated that there are boards where there are no council representatives and that this is their fault. She stated that it is up to that council member to come back with that information. She asked is it necessary to schedule a meeting if the committee has a representative already on the board. Council Member Cuthbert stated that it is the will of council to answer that question. He stated that there are different ways to look at it. He stated that this is something that City Council has to come to grips with and decide, Mayor Parham asked Council Member Wilson-Smith if she received the information regarding the meeting with the school board. Council Member Wilson-Smith stated that she received the information from Ms. Jackson. She stated that when she asked the questions she was asking about coming to council about the information. She stated that when they come to a council meeting with a report then the citizens can hear the information as well. Council Member Hill stated he would like to hear from the committee themselves. He stated that they will get the clerk to set this information up. Council Member Smith-Lee stated that they all have to remember they have to do things promptly. She stated that if they are going to do one situation one way they must be consistent with everything. Council Member Cuthbert stated that he believes with consistency but that there must be judgement as well. He stated that he agrees with Council Member Hill. He stated that this committee is very important and that they are facing money issues. He stated that he thinks in exchange among members of council and the *Audio available  Minutes from the Petersburg City Council Budget Work Session meeting held on: March 29, 2017 - 13 – ______________________________________________________________________________ committee may be beneficial. He stated that all he does is to report the proceedings. He stated that he applauds Council Member Hill’s suggestion. Mayor Parham stated that he would like to give a special thanks to the Department of Public Works and Utilities for all that they do. He stated that the council meeting for next Tuesday will be at the train station. He stated that it was advertised for the train station and that it will be at the train station next Tuesday at 6:30pm. 3. ADJOURNMENT: City Council adjourned at 8:32 p.m. _________________________ Clerk of City Council APPROVED: _________________________ Mayor *Audio available