Planning Commission

City of Petersburg Planning Commission Meeting November 9, 2021 Minutes The City of Petersburg Planning Commission meeting held on Thursday November 9, 2021, virtually was called to order by the Chair, Ms. Tammy Alexander at 7: 00 p.m. A roll call was completed by Ms. Michelle Murrills. Members Present: Ms. Tammy Alexander, Chair Mr. Fenton Bland, Vice Chair Mr. Michael Edwards Mr. Thomas Hairston Dr. James Norman Mr. William Irvin Members Absent: Ms. Marie Vargo Ms. Candy Taylor A Quorum was established by the Chair. Others Present: Mr. Reginald Tabor, Ms. Michelle Murrills, City Manager Mr. Stuart Turille Jr., Mr. Jeffrey Fleming, Ms. Kat McKay, Mr. Richard Pyle, Mr. Leonard Curry, Ms. Denise Tipton, Ms. Latrisse Noel, Ms. Amy Blumenthal, Ms. Victoria Brown, Mr. Harold Brown, Mr. Timothy Brown, Mr. Terrell Tucker, Sargent Franklin Bayor, Mrs. Kelsie Jewell, Mr. DJ Payne, Mr. Rigoberto Prarda, Mr. Michael Morin, Mr. Charlie Cuthbert, Mr. Time Saywack, Ms. Patrice Jackson, Mr. Marlique Colden, Mr. Shavar Wade, Ms. Krista Giglil, Mr. Keith Jones, Ms. Jordie Farrar, Ms. Evelyn Fredrick, Pastor Belinda Baugh, Mr. Ray Ferguson, Mr. Shaun Stuart, Mr. Burnette, Mr. Lawrence Gordon Sr., Dr. Terry Jackson, Ms. Sarah Melissa Witiak, Mr. Larry Hoe, Mr. Joe Battison, Ms. Jen Lourey, Mr. Joseph Traicheler, Mr. Robert Still, and Mr. Craig Smith. 1 Adoption of the Agenda: Chair Alexander called for any changes…there were none Commissioner Edwards moved approval of the agenda; Vice-Chair Bland seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously. Public Information Period: Chair Alexander opened the Public Information Period to anyone who wished to speak on an item not on the agenda. With no one wanting to speak, the Chair moved on and the Public Information Period was closed. Public Hearings: Chair Alexander read the notice of a public hearing as follows: 6A. ZTA 2021-04: Review and recommendation regarding amending the text of Article 3 Section 1 of the Petersburg Zoning Ordinance “Definitions”, to amend the text of the reference section To add: Hours of operation shall be defined by the Owner/Operator between the hours of 6:00 a.m. and 11:00 p.m. to the definition of Micro-Brewery, Micro-Distillery, Micro-Winery and/or Micro-Cidery. To add: Hours of operation shall be defined by the Owner/Operator between the hours of 6:00 a.m. and 11:00 p.m. to the definition of Restaurant. To add: Hours of operation shall be defined by the Owner/Operator between the hours of 6:00 a.m. and 11:00 p.m. TV definition of Restaurant, Carry Out. To add: Hours of operation shall be defined by the Owner/Operator between the hours of 6:00 a.m. and 11:00 p.m. to the definition of Restaurant, Coffee or Ice Cream Shop. Director Tabor made a presentation stating that this was a continuation of a February 17, 2021, meeting where the Planning Commission had adopted a text amendment that added definitions to restaurants, which was subsequently adopted by City Council as Ordinance 21- 2 ORD-18 and ordinance approving an amendment to the Petersburg Zoning Ordinance to address Restaurants and related uses during the March 23, 2021, City Council meeting. While the definition of night club includes hours of operation, the definitions for restaurants did not. To further distinguish between the uses, this is a request to amend Article 3 Section 1 of the Petersburg Zoning Ordinance ”Definitions”, to amend the text of the reference section to include hours operation for Restaurants as follows: 6A. ZTA 2021-04: Review and recommendation regarding amending the text of Article 3 Section 1 of the Petersburg Zoning Ordinance “Definitions”, to amend the text of the reference section To add: Hours of operation shall be defined by the Owner/Operator between the hours of 6:00 a.m. and 11:00 p.m. to the definition of Micro-Brewery, Micro-Distillery, Micro-Winery and/or Micro-Cidery. To add: Hours of operation shall be defined by the Owner/Operator between the hours of 6:00 a.m. and 11:00 p.m. to the definition of Restaurant. To add: Hours of operation shall be defined by the Owner/Operator between the hours of 6:00 a.m. and 11:00 p.m. TV definition of Restaurant, Carry Out. To add: Hours of operation shall be defined by the Owner/Operator between the hours of 6:00 a.m. and 11:00 p.m. to the definition of Restaurant, Coffee or Ice Cream Shop. Drive-in Restaurants are defining the Zoning Ordinance as follows: Drive-in Restaurant. A retail food-dispensing and eating establishment where patrons are permitted to park cars on the premises and food, or drinks are served to patron in cars. Hours of operation are not proposed for Drive-in restaurants. A restaurant remaining open after 11:00 p.m. would be required to obtain a Special Use Permit as a nightclub use. Pursuant to the requirements of title 15.2-2204 of the Code of Virginia, as amended, this is a public hearing to consider approval of the Zoning Ordinance Text Amendments. The public hearing was advertised, in accordance with applicable laws. The first to speak was the City Manager, Mr. Stuart Turille Jr., with a welcome message—The Planning Commission was directed by City Council to review and provide recommendations on the noise ordinance. The noise ordinance needs to strike a balance between peace and quiet for our citizens and yet allowing for the clear economic resurgence that we are seeing in the city which brings visitors to our city to enjoy the music, restaurants and other entertainments 3 now thriving here as part of this resurgence. The ordinance that it put before you today is trying to delineate between what is a restaurant and what is a nightclub, by focusing on hours of operation. But this needs more discussion from the public to clarify. The critical question is not hours of operation of a restaurant but clarifying the definition and allowable sound volume for a nightclub. Keep in mind that a vibrant night life brings in youth and visitors. It is an exciting time here. Where nightclubs exist now, I suggest focusing there. Mr. Jeffrey Fleming, 1819 Chuckatuck Ave, first this is my opinion and my opinion only, and does not reflect any of my official capacity for working for the City of Petersburg. This is my opinion as a resident and taxpayer in this great city. I am trying to understand what you are trying to tackle with this change of definition. If you are trying to delineate the difference between a restaurant and a nightclub, you go after the activity. A restaurant to me is where me, and someone like Ms. Murrills, we might decide to go to dinner. We go in, are seated, and there is a menu. We may have drinks (I don’t drink but she may have wine or something) and we have a dinner. We tip the waiter, and we leave. That’s a restaurant. When I was younger, people don’t normally go out until nine or ten o’clock at night. For you to close a business at 11:00 you are attacking tax dollars that are coming into this city. What happens when we get an Applebee’s, a national chain, that wants to come to Petersburg? 11:00??? Oh no we are going right to Prince George or Colonial Heights. We are not bothering with Petersburg. Why must this city continue to shoot itself in the foot??? As the City Manager said, we want to delineate between a restaurant and a nightclub. If you want to delineate that, those are the definitions that you are going to have to work on. I can tell you from my knowledge, that the fire code definition of a night club does not begin doesn’t even meet the city’s definition of a night club. Trying to deal with nightclubs and people getting Special Use Permits, that is what you go after…after that activity. Nightclub activity, dancing, drinking, etc. that is what you go after. You don’t go after places that have been here and are established. When I came here, over 20 years ago, the downtown was a ghost town. Now look at it. One more thing…I have a prime example. In Dinwiddie there is a racetrack along route one with beautiful houses next to it. If you buy a house next to a racetrack, what do you expect? If you buy a house downtown, because we have that vibrant nightlife now, you are going to have some noise. That is all that I have to say, thank you. Ms. Kat McKay, West Bank Street, I am the sole owner of Olde Town Alibi Restaurant, and we are a relatively new business here in Petersburg since I purchased and the only thing that I came here to say is that I am a SOLE owner. I did that. Petersburg is not my business partner. They should not be allowed to dictate when I operate. I signed a multiyear lease to do business in the City of Petersburg because I have faith in the city as well as a resident. I am a taxpayer on both ends and at the end of the day this is government overreach at its finest and no one should be able to dictate to me, while we are abiding to the local and state laws, when we can and cannot operate our business. 4 Mr. Richard Pyle, Resident of Dinwiddie County, and a former resident of Petersburg, and I will be honest, I went down to Old Towne this evening before coming up here just to get a little inspiration for this. I had a drink at Longstreets, and I saw something that I have not seen in a long time. You know, I have been coming to Petersburg a whole lot at night, and right now I am looking at houses and apartments in Old Towne. Because we want to retire there as our kids are almost out of the house. And to be honest, it’s beautiful! Like the first gentleman said, people are jogging, running, there are young people with money moving to the city because of a young vibrant revival. What happened at Church Hill is about to happen here in Petersburg. And I understand why you are doing this; I understand you are trying to curb the fun. That’s the idea you are trying to close nightclubs early so that THEY don’t have that kind of fun. But realistically, crime in the city happens at all hours of the day. Crime in the city stems from a lack of support for the police department, it stems from a lack of ability for people to renovate their brick houses because of overreaching that leave all these beautiful homes derelict because people cannot afford to renovate them. When it comes down to it, I worked for the City of Petersburg for years as a paramedic and I saw the mismanagement of this city and I love this town, it is such a cool town. But after one year of working here and watching the SCVA be repossessed by the company for lack of payment, I understood that this was not going to work. So, looking at what this is, this someone saying that we need to do something and something right now. No what we need to do is to talk to these business owners behind me, work with the residents, and actually have a plan to go forward without just arbitrarily call out a number for business hours. Oh, and those business hours that were called out…whoever did the research for those business hours of operation…you have to fire that guy because he’s wrong. I implore if this ordinance is passed, in the spirit of this nation, these business owners do not comply. And if they have to close their doors because you revoke their licenses you know what? Old Towne dies. And if Old Towne dies then this city dies. Mr. Leonard Curry, 2014 Woodland Rd, I am the Chairman of the Friends of Historic Petersburg. Our board has taken the position that we are not opposed to the ordinance. We are looking for relief in terms of the volume of sound downtown. We used a monitor from the National Institute Occupational Safety and Health. We found that any sound decibel level above 100 is dangerous to our hearing. At the intersection of Sycamore and Bollingbrooke several feet away from where the music is playing, the decibel level was 125. Which is damaging the hearing of people who are there. Also…. The Farmer’s Bank is a beautiful structure on Bolingbrook, and it is maintained by donations from friends and the rental of three apartments. Two of our three units are empty because of the sound. The sound that is too much. It is suggested that we should work on setting a decibel level and it is possible to download from the NIOSH and app on your phone and you can have a sensor. So, send a police officer downtown when the decibel levels exceed the standard have them shut down or tell them to tone it down. But it is not just for our benefit, that is not the issue, it is not the issue on whether restaurants stay open it’s the excessive soundbites and so I ask you in some way to address the sound issue. Thank you 5 Ms. Denise Tipton, I am a resident of Ettrick and I have a business on Old Street, but I am actually here to represent Main Street Petersburg. As a board member of Main Street Petersburg, I feel that it is important that our organization provide feedback about the proposed changes to Petersburg’s zoning ordinance. This amendment as written will have a significant impact on Old Towne businesses. First off, businesses have come to Petersburg with the understanding that they can operate under the zoning ordinance as it currently stands. They chose Petersburg, made their business plans, and advertised to their customers based upon the regulations as they now stand. Changing this standard will significantly decrease revenue and will derail Old Towne businesses that chose to invest in our community. Additionally, this will become a deterrent for businesses looking to come to Petersburg. Requiring specific operating hours, while not competitive with other localities, will not make Petersburg a desirable location for new businesses. Potential vibrant businesses may choose to not come to Petersburg because of this ordinance, which could cause a quality-of-life issue for the community. The good news about this ordinance is that it is working on a problem that is a good problem to have… a vibrant night life in Old Towne shows that people want to be in Petersburg for dining and entertainment and that people want to live in that same area. The tension present with this issue exhibits traditional growing pains that ultimately show a positive trend in economic development in this city. Striking a balance between businesses and residents is critical to continue that sense of vibrancy and facilitate the growth and success that Petersburg is experiencing. If there are specific entities that have become problematic, then we should address those individually rather than a through a blanketed issue that has to potential to have an extremely negative effect on the community at large. Ms. Latrisse Noel, 244 N. Sycamore Street, and I live right in the heart of everything that you are talking about. I have lived at this location for about two years. When I first moved there, I was a light sleeper, and I would be awakened. But guess what? I realized that I made a choice to move into that apartment. I made the choice to move into that ecosystem that is made up of other citizens and I did not make it about me. So, it did not take long, and I am not a light sleeper anymore. And I LOVE living here. I love the restaurants, I love the social life, so no the issue is not the hours. Don’t make them suffer like that we have tried to get past Covid and the shutdown. They are still trying to get back on their feet. This is not going to do anything but hurt them here, so please stop. The second point that I want to make, you are trying to settle on a definition between a restaurant and a night club. In my opinion that is a very archaic old thing because food, dining and entertainment is not just about a restaurant or a nightclub. We have a lot of stuff in between. We have food, we have a bar, a nightclub implies that you are strictly there to hear a DJ and you are going to dance all night. That is not what is happening in Old Towne. People come to listen to a great band with some great music, have a drink, maybe get some appetizers and if you do a little two step next to your table so be it, but micro mini system and we all know that. Third, I want to respond to Mr. Curry’s suggestion to monitor the decibel level…that make no sense at all. Running around with your phone trying to download a random app so that you can listen to decibel levels because those will not be an accurate level. 6 So please don’t go do that. So, in closing, I can’t speak for everyone that is in my immediate area who lives in the heart of the city, but I can definitely say for sure I will NOT support the closing up of any restaurant however or whatever you decide to categorize it. Let them operate as they need to. Ms. Amy Blumenthal, Reservoir Drive, I have lived in this community for 35 years. I have seen a lot of businesses come and I have seen a lot go. I miss things that are no longer here. Petersburg has become vibrant as everyone has been saying. This room is full of restaurant and business owners. I am extremely saddened and upset by this. Some of these businesses have been here a long time and have been struggling for the past two years. It’s harsh, but if you want to steal money from them, but that is kind of what you would to be doing, in essence, if you pass this. You will be stealing money from those businesses. Not every business is open until 11 or 12 and I don’t know of any business (correct me if I’m wrong) that opens at 6:30 in the morning…not one. I believe that the businesses have the right to operate under the conditions of their licenses and it should not be up to any of you or any of us to change the rules. Thank you Ms. Victoria Brown, 56 Grayson Street, my family owns a restaurant. It is not in Old Towne, but we would still be under the same hour changes. I know we are not in Old Towne, but Petersburg is still largely Old Towne…Hello Everybody. So, when I first heard about this, I was wondering why we were getting this public notice and why noise would be included as to one of the reasons why this was being done. So, I wanted to know more about noise complaints and so I got this report from the police about all the noise complaints that have been submitted in the year 2021. It includes over 500 noise complaints. Only 18 belong to businesses and of those 18, there are 10 belonging to one business in particular. It is in Old Towne, and I don’t think that we need to address that business right here. But I do want to say that if you are doing this all for one business, why not go after that one business rather than affecting what all these other businesses are doing. So, with noise not being a substantial reason to close up early, I want to know what the other factors are coming into play that the city is making such a sweeping suggestion on changing hours because this is not legal. And I feel like this board and the community members who brought it to the board should be very clear on the reasons why they wanted to have things shut down at 11 rather than pin it on noise because noise is not the issue. We just had an election not even a week ago and this is something that has an effect on the entire community. As many people have said, Old Towne is a major part of the city, and it brings a lot of attractions and we could not have brought this up during the elections. In Richmond we heard so many things on the radio with the One Casino. They had an election to build one casino. But we have not heard from our citizens, and we just had an election last week, regarding closing…well essentially setting curfew because that is what this does. It does not just closing restaurants, its setting curfew because that is what it is. I just want the board as well as citizens who are promoting this noise complaint or noise problem, I just want everyone to be clear on what we are doing with everyone using the excuse of noise because that clearly is not the problem. Thank you 7 Mr. Harold Brown, 56 Grayson Street, I have owned my business here for about 24 years. And I want to say also that I am a retired US Marine. This really saddens me that in this country that our government has helped us to build so many small businesses and that this city wants to try to close them up no matter the effect. Now I personally have not borrowed money from them, but I know a lot of businesses that did. And if you put limits on what time you can be open and what time you can be closed how do you expect people to pay our taxes. Our government is sinking as it is. We have entertainment tax, every time someone comes over and plays the guitar, I have to pay an entertainment tax, I pay meals taxes, all these taxes to the City of Petersburg. When the City of Petersburg was sinking, they took your money no problem. Every time you closed your eyes the taxes are paid. All these restaurants and businesses we kept the city afloat until you could get a better deal with all these new businesses and restaurants coming in. I do not understand about what is a club versus what is a bar. We have laws in this country if you break those laws, you get closed up. Its just that simple. We have one business around here and we all know what the name of it is and it is irrelevant. But why are we here? Listen I cannot compete with Kentucky Fried Chicken. But believe me, when they close up, I sell chicken and I sell 1000 pounds a week. For these people who live in Old Towne Petersburg, this is the city…THE CITY. This is not the town of Petersburg it is not the county of Petersburg this is the City of Petersburg. When you live in the city, you know that you are going to have noise in the city. I do not expect to wake up in the morning and see a horse walking down my street because I live in the City of Petersburg. I do not expect to see a tractor riding down my street because I live in the City of Petersburg. But I do expect to see night life and I do expect to see bars. Bars have always held every city together even during prohibition days. This is so sad that here in America this is being put together. Thank you Mr. Timothy Brown, 56 Grayson Street, I just want to expand upon one of the points that that great man, my father made back there. This is the City of Petersburg. It is not oldtown USA, it is not the town of Petersburg, it is the City of Petersburg, and we are a city because of our size. We have about 30,000 people here in Petersburg. With that in mind, any night life is going to be inherent to city living, so with that in mind we cannot no longer only try to accept the agendas of Old Towne. There is more that the city has to offer than Old Towne. But that is what people come for and if you present these laws in this fashion, you know what is going to happen. People are going to say no I am going to go to Chester, Prince George, Colonial Heights, places that are more accepting of the laws. So, I wanted to leave you guys with a couple of things. We came here, and if I am correct, it for a noise ordinance. But then when we get to the meeting the true agenda comes out and it is against nightclubs and restaurants. (Chair Alexander explained that there are two public hearings tonight) Ah two public hearings well that makes a little more sense then. So, I just want to say, just like I said at the last meeting, if your true agenda is to work with us as business owners and solve these problems, reach out to the businesses. Even from the last meeting, I was disappointed that I had to find out about this crucial meeting that effects my family’s business, well something that my father built with his own hands, from Facebook. Seriously and not even an official Facebook account. 8 Instead, I hear from my neighbor that oh yeah, they are having a meeting. That is unacceptable. You guys have my information because when we have had issues in the past you have been able to reach out. So, I just want to leave you guys with that. I do not know what the agenda is here, or why its even reasonable and maybe this is all so that this can reach City Council next month and we can talk about this some more. But think about that agenda and work on the wording because it’s not about noise. Mr. Terrell Tucker, owner of Monarays on Halifax Street, new establishment but I have been in the city all my life. I grew up on the Avenue. I don’t know how many people in here know about the Avenue, but anyone around here that needed some help it was on the Avenue. So, II brought a business to the city right across from Mr. Tony’s Chicken. I figured that if this man can scrap it together for 35 years, I can do the same thing. I own and operate a business and I work a full-time job. I am doing both and I am trying to do the right thing. Trying to do a positive thing. So, I have a lot to be responsible for. So, I am not thinking about the business I am thinking about the people that you are about to hurt. Don’t think about me, I have a 401k and a lot of other things. How about the people tonight? How about the folks that get $12-$13 an hour from me to stay open until 2:00 in the morning? They deserve their shot. When you take away hours of operation think about the people that you are taking from. Damned the city. The city got theirs. Y’all are going to have it from McDonalds, Wendy’s, and Burger King. Because I am really speaking about them. When we talk about restaurants are we closing them as well at 11:00? We are only talking about businesses with a drive through. Should I put in a drive through so I can stay open? I have only been in business since September 9, 2021. But I grew up here, 41 years old. Majority of my family is here, my children frequent here, my kids went to school here and so did I. I only want a fair shake for my family, for my friends, and create a calm and relaxing environment so that you, you, and you would feel comfortable coming here. You want a drink? It’s there. You want a meal? A great meal? It’s there. I do not have problems and I never have. I would just like to see us as an organization thrive. I do have a few dollars and I am looking at investing in another business. But damned if I heard these ideas that kick me in my butt and say hey is this the right place to go? Or is it Colonial Heights? Or Chester? Or Hopewell? I would prefer to invest my money in the city that I grew up in, but the only way that I am willing to do that is for us to have an understanding. Thank you. Sargent Franklin Bayor, 416 Clinton Street, I am the DJ at Andratti’s International restaurant. I have been a resident of Petersburg for 5 years. But I have been playing music the whole time I have been here. Some of the rules that you guys enforce are just hideously crazy. There are even rules that you cannot stand up and dance. What are we in the 50’s? We should be allowed to operate as a business. And me especially. I have spent almost $25,000 that I borrowed from the government for my DJ equipment. So, I can’t entertain people in the proper manner. If it is too loud, I would be willing to pull back. If someone wants to come check the decibel level, I would be willing to pull back. But I am playing between two brick walls and an ocean of water out there and it carries across the water. I have heard that I can be heard in 9 Colonial Heights because once the sound hits the water it just goes. And the same thing goes for the two brick walls. I have been pulling back my sound and I have been pulling back sound at 11:00 sharp each and every night and we still get complaints. So, I would like for someone to coordinate what it is that y’all would like for me to do as I have to eat as well. Thank you Mrs. Kelsie Jewell, 271 High Street, I would like to say that I am speaking 100% as a resident. I have no business interest in Petersburg whatsoever. So, I will start with the fact that my main concern is why you are penalizing all the businesses when, as the woman who spoke earlier stated, that there have only been a few complaints. Since we are not here to debate the noise ordinance that is not being enforced, and instead of proposing to make a decision that punishes all the businesses in town, I digress. Several years ago, my husband and I purchased a property on the 200 block of High Street. At the time we bought our house as an investment property and planned to rent it out. After 6 months of renovations, we fell in love with Petersburg and Old Towne. Being able to walk downtown and experience bars and nightlife was a major driving factor of us moving here. Since that time, we have purchased two additional lots and an additional house. We have become involved in Historical Petersburg Foundation and many other local organizations. We frequent all of these downtown establishments. And I can honestly say that on the 200 block of High Street I have NEVER had a single issue of noise pollution coming from any of the bars and restaurants, even in the summer with all my windows open. I have however, been able to hear the marching band from VSU (which I love!) during the football season. I will recognize, however, that I have heard the music while I was enjoying downtown. It is my understanding that this is originating from complaints from people in apartments above these establishments and I recognize that it has come to a point where you cannot please everyone. However, I would like to point out that they are renters. Who pay little, if any, personal property taxes and who chose to live above a restaurant or bar. As anyone who lives near a downtown can attest…if you are looking for a quiet space that is not it. I lived at 13th and Main in Richmond, and there have been plenty of complaints there, in Carytown and in Shockoe and have not heeded the renters. Rightfully so I might add as many of the people who originated these complaints have already moved. There is a right choice to make here, and I urge you to make it. Choose for businesses, the city’s livelihood, and the tourism that they bring in and your tax paying permanent residents. I will end with this question. If the ordinance is passed, will it apply to all businesses within the city limits? If so, has the city notified the casino developers who are in town today that these amendments are in motion? I did notice that a casino restaurant is not mentioned at all. Is it safe for us to assume that it is only targeted at small businesses? Thank you. Mr. DJ Payne, owner of Wabi Sabi, DJs Rajun Cajun, DJ’s Java Joint, and Old Towne Events, I would also like to represent my family, my sister Melody, my niece. I am not a big speaker; I just speak from the heart. When I first moved here in 2006, I looked around and saw Longstreets and Brick house run and said that this was going to be my life someday. I had no idea that I was going to end up smack dab in the middle of all this. So now with Covid, and I am no different than anyone else, we have all been affected by Covid. We have all had to struggle 10 and get past Covid. Closing the businesses down at 11:00, turning off the noise at 11:00 is one thing, but closing the businesses down at 11:00 I went whoa. The wintertime is where we make the money, we need to make it through the rest of the year. This is the gravy that I put on my biscuit to make my money to pay for everything. I have 45 employees and 40 of them live in Petersburg. I pay taxes to this city just like everyone else who is here does as well. With all the people who have spoken before more I am thinking about what message are we sending the people who are here…I have been here 14 years. Kat’s been here for 6 months. Terrell has been here since September. What are we all going to say to the people who want to come to Petersburg and open an establishment? I had someone ask me a question. He wanted to know if I were going to open another establishment and I said why should I? Why should I?? All I am saying is please when you are looking at closing a business at 11…You are taking, just for me personally, my years of experience, and my devotion, my loyalty, my integrity, my hard work, and just have it mean what? At least at least I have it for myself even if I don’t have recognition from the city. Thank you. Mr. Rigoberto Prarda, Owner of Andrades International Restaurant, I have been in Petersburg for 16 years. Since day one I have been paying taxes; sales taxes, meal taxes, etc. I have had employees and I have kept them employed even with the Covid. And I keep paying my taxes. When I came to Petersburg in 2005, Petersburg was a ghost town with few restaurants. Now I am happy to see Petersburg thriving. It is alive. I remember when I opened my restaurant in Petersburg, and I was open on Sundays. I was afraid because no one was coming on Sundays. So, I spent a lot of money on advertising especially on getting people on Sundays. I spent $32,000 on advertising in the Richmond Times Dispatch trying to get people to come from Richmond to Petersburg. And I did. And it worked out pretty good. I had good business from the beginning. Even with the Covid I have struggled but I survived, and I am still here. Please do not take those few hours, its only weekends. Its only 3 hours on Friday and 3 hours on Saturday. It’s only 6 hours a week. But that is where we make money. Money that allows us to pay our employees and pay what we owe. We need those hours to stay open. That’s all I have to say. Mr. Michael Morin, Vice-president of True Community Outreach, that is a non-profit in the tri- cities area that helps families in need, and we feed the homeless. One of the things that we own is the Civic Center and I just want to commend the owner of Alibi’s and Beaunuts because while the City of Petersburg will not help the homeless these owners and others do. Kat, the owner of Alibi’s just raised $8000 for a little girl in need. A little girl that she does not even know. Beaunuts, if you call, they are there! So, I just encourage you that since Petersburg is trying to reestablish their image and everything like that. Obviously, communication is the key. One final thing before I close. Some people are in an apartment because they choose to downsize so that they can then choose to be of service to those in need. Because I don’t care about how much money I have. If I am not doing nothing to make a difference to the people in my community, all that money means nothing. So, I ask you all to be fair and to listen to everything that I said. Thank you. 11 Mr. Charlie Cuthbert, 132 Adams St, it is nice to see you all up there tonight and the City of Petersburg appreciates you giving your time to Petersburg whether you get paid or not. You have three separate issues before you tonight at some point. One is the hours of operation, one is decisions about night clubs, and the third one is the noise ordinance. I think that it is important that we look at each of those initiatives separately and ask ourselves what is the problem that we are seeking to address? Now when I asked myself that question as to the first of those issues, I do not come up with an answer. I don’t see what is the problem that we are seeking to address. And if there is no problem to address then we do not need the ordinance or the amendment. And the same is true about the distinction between restaurants and night clubs. Maybe there is a reason, and I am certainly open to hear of it, but I have yet to hear it. So, I am in the mode of show me tell me why, right now I don’t see it. Although I will reserve judgement until the last person in line speaks and maybe then someone can tell me why it is important to have that distinction. Thank you. Mr. Tim Saywack, new business in the old Croaker Spot, we were very happy to receive our business license from the City of Petersburg and just last week we were getting the safety inspections done on our building. We were so excited to nearing the opening and then we learned that there was an ordinance that is trying to change to 11:00 when to close restaurants and bars. That is like a, we had a lot of hurtles in the beginning, and now its like, here is Mount Everest overcome. If Covid wasn’t already there making and breaking businesses and so for all the businesses that have struggled with Covid, that have not been open because all of the restrictions and now that those have been lifted here comes Petersburg with another restriction to keep folks here from succeeding. I cannot speak about anyone else in here, but I would assume that most of the business comes from 11 and after. And that is what generates that income that pays for the meals tax and other taxes. I don’t know if you remember, but 2016-2017 there was a budget gap of like 12 million dollars at Petersburg and so Petersburg decided to raise the meal tax to help cover that gap. Hundreds of thousands of dollars were generated because they decided to impose those tax hikes in restaurants to save the city basically because the governor did not help Petersburg get out of that budget gap. So, everyone in here who had a business back then and still has it now really saved the city and kept it from failing have made it that it is able to thrive like it is right now. I just want to be able to open our business and be successful. As a minority city that everyone already has eyes on already to succeed or fail, we want to show that we can turn this into something that does succeed. So, we just want to be able to open our businesses at a respectful time which is the times that we already are. What I suggest is that use some of the tax dollars that are already being used by the city to bring in some more police officers to down to Old Towne to curb any crime, if that is what we are looking at, or any other areas instead of taking money away from businesses in Old Towne or anywhere else, if you can divert some kind of…if the people here can come up with some sort of plan to try to move tax dollars around instead of taking it away thank you. 12 Ms. Patricia Jackson, 538 Back St., I have been a resident of Petersburg for 43 years. I have seen a lot of changes go on. I have seen bad things; I have seen everything come back and I really feel like we are in an upswing. I have read articles about how we are a historic town especially Old Towne. I was thinking to myself, you know I used to work for the Department of Tourism at one time, I had the opportunity to show people around and to give tours at the Blandford Cemetery, and at the museum and I was thinking who would want to come here and get a hotel? And by 11:00 be done. A long time ago people used to go for dinner and dancing, that’s when people would go do the two step, have a band playing, and nobody went to bed near 11:00. So, who would want to come here? When then there is nothing to do after 11:00. So, I just want to say that I don’t see how this is going to help us as a city. I mean who is going to want to come here and stay here in a nice hotel and then have to get in your car and go somewhere else to go and do something. So, I really feel like we have made a lot of bad choices in the past where the city is concerned. And I do not know if I have my facts correct, but I remember back with the military Tigers had their club down on Grove Ave…and it closed down. What city does not have a military Tigers club? I heard, and I do not know if it is true or not, but it was because of Hip Hop. And because people had bought houses around it and had renovated them and because the Tiger Club made noise they had to shut down. They did a lot of stuff for the community. It was the military Tigers Club. But still yet, people who bought houses ran them out from where they were, and they had been there…well they were here when I got here. So, I really don’t think that it is right that people can come in and make comments and change things around and effect all these other people’s lives in the city and I appreciate you hearing me talk. Mr. Marlique Colden, I guess the first thing that I need to ask you guys is any of you from Petersburg? So, I have been in Petersburg from the rise to the fall to the rise again, which we are upon that. In the city of Petersburg, I have spent literally thousands of dollars in each one of these establishments. So, me experiencing crime and knowing what I know about crime I can tell you one thing. If you close everything at 11:00 what is everyone going to do? Weekends at 11:00 the crime rates will go up because they have nothing else to do. The doors need to be kept open and not closed it is that simple. Thank you. Mr. Shavar Wade, I just recently moved to Petersburg in May. I have heard a lot about this town, and I have fallen in love with it. I love living here! It’s amazing. This lady right here gave me a job in August at Alibis, and she has been so nice to me, and I love my life right now. Four months ago, I hated but today I love my life. I love living here in the city and I love everything about it. No matter where you go anywhere in the world there is going to be good and bad. There has to be a balance. And we have to make sure that everyone is safe and happy where they are living. But we can’t enforce restrictions on everybody that will hurt their way of life. A lot of us at work in Petersburg, depend on those after hours. I would not be able to feed myself, my fiancé, my kids, or my puppy. I know you guys love dogs and I don’t want my puppy to go hungry. She is really expensive to take care of so please please please there is so much more that I want to say but…There’s people who live here, who rely on this. Like the gentleman 13 who was just up here said…I am from Brooklyn, New York. I know of many towns that they have shut down and tried to shut down and yes, the violence just gets worse. Please do not allow that to happen to this beautiful city. This beautiful city that I want to make my home. That I want to have a child in and raise here. Please let us make Petersburg what it is, Old Town is beautiful as it is, we don’t need to shut everything down at 11:00 to make it safe. There is a mayor in a New York city (Albany, New York) that declared a state of emergency to shut a bar down because there were 56 killings and about 38 shootings in one year. He declared a state of emergency for the one bar, why can’t our mayor do that? Ms. Krista Giglil, Old Towne, I just recently moved here and since moving here I have met a lot of wonderful people. A lot of these people give back to the community. One was Alibi’s, as the gentleman earlier said, they raised a few thousand…$17,000, for someone in need, a little girl who had cancer. That would not have happened if they did not have enough operating hours to raise that money. What this reminds me of right now is the movie called “Footloose”. One group of people messed up and now everything is being cut off because of one person’s mistakes. All of these business owners are being punished because of one person’s mistakes. Do you think that they would be able to raise $17,000 if the community did not come and help someone else? NO! And it is not fair to hold someone accountable for someone else’s mistakes. I have met a lot of wonderful people from Alibi’s, to Longstreets, Del Mundos, you know they are all willing to help people. So, taking away their hours hurts them. You know I work late at night, so I am not able to go out until after 10-11. I do not want to go that far because I do not want to drive. If I can walk somewhere that is also trying to give back to my community…that is AWESOME. But I can’t do that if you want to shut all of Petersburg down at 11:00 because of someone else’s mistakes. I would say that those are the ones that need to be penalized, not the ones helping the community. Mr. Keith Jones, Works at Kat’s Alibi, I am not a resident of Old Towne, but I have worked here a very long time. I have worked for almost all the businesses downtown. I have worked for Mr. Rico at Andrades, and I now work for Ms. Kat at Alibi’s. This whole thing of closing at 11:00 kills business, it really does. You have to think…If you and your significant other get off from work you go and have dinner, and you want to go out but it’s already 10:00 why are you going to go somewhere that closes at 11:00. Meanwhile you will just go somewhere else that is open. Looking through everyone who is here… I see regulars, I see customers, I see friends of mine, I see co-workers, half the staff of my job and the restaurant next to us is back there in the back corner. And we are all here to support this as well. Everyone here makes money off of this, we live off of this. And we all follow the rules and regulations. You took our restaurant in the street, the square, so you took it away from us and now you are taking our wallets. You all are killing the city and you all just do not see it. And that is all that I have to say. Thank you. Ms. Jordie Farrar, my concern is that …I work at Walmart and after I get off from work at 5:00, I then work Doordash until either I get too tired, or the orders stop coming. As you know most of the restaurants that are concern here use Doordash. So, if a restaurant closes at 12:00 then 14 9 times out of 10, the food usually stops then at like 10:30. Yes, they are still serving alcohol, but the food is going to stop at a certain point. So, when you cut the hours back by two hours you have literally taken $60.00 out of my pocket. If that were to have, I cannot afford to live off of what I am then making. And I do not even have kids, this is literally by myself. Just to feed me. So, you guys are responsible for everything, the kids, that guys little puppy. Ms. Evelyn Fredrick, owner of Shebangs, and I live on High Street. I opened my business and started it back in the beginning of Covid. I have been living in Petersburg since. When I came to Petersburg as much as I did not like the looks, I thought I could see the potential. I saw the lights and the starts and when I came to Petersburg I fell in love with the potential. I have seen a lot of businesses come into the city and see the potential. But once again Petersburg can’t reach its potential if you guys push this. I also do a lot of things for the community. I try to get done as much as I can. I am a single mom; I have a small little daughter. Everyone here has shown me love. Petersburg has shown me love. Not Los Angeles, Petersburg has. That’s why I love Petersburg. I actually do a lot of business at night, and I park my truck out in Olde Town at night. Now, if you shut them down, you shut me down. My money-making days are Fridays and Saturdays. So, if you are taking money out of their pockets you are taking money out of my pockets and food out of my daughter’s mouth. The bigger picture is that it is a couple of people complaining about sound. I live up on High Street and I don’t hear those sounds. My thing is that you need to look at the bigger picture, because not only are you just trying to alleviate someone’s feelings about the noise, but you are hurting the community, these businesses, you are hurting their employees and their families and how they feed them. And that is all I have to say. Pastor Belinda Baugh, Beech Street, I am here today out of concern that the big business will be affected if you shut the doors. Why do I say that as a pastor? Well, most of my church members are millennials. They are young people. I love the fact that they have Wabi Sabi where they talk about going on Friday nights when they come from work. They love to go down there, love to go hear music. They love to downtown on the weekends. These are good people; these are good youths. If you shut the doors to these businesses at 11:00 you are setting yourself up for more violence. I fight diligently, in this city, to prevent violence. I go into the community to talk to the youth and the young adults about violence and working with gun take backs and work with lots of different things. Can you imagine if you shut these doors where they do have some decent places to hang out at? Some good standing places where they can go to as troubled kids. I have never heard of trouble in Old Towne. For years the Petersburg police did not respond to restaurant issues, they responded an illegal club that was right beside the restaurant. And when I looked at how those young people went dancing and had a good time, when they would leave out of there, there was no fighting in the parking lot, there were no shootings on the streets. The shootings are no where near entertainment and so why are we bothering these good people? I don’t understand it. So, I suggest that if you don’t want more trouble in the City of Petersburg, more murders in the City of Petersburg, more robberies in the City of Petersburg, give these people something to do that is positive that gives 15 them a safe life. I know that I don’t know a lot, but I know that these restaurants…when these young people go to them, the good young people that go to some of these clubs…they are not fighting they are not full of drama, and they are not hurting each other. So, if these places are not doing anything illegal than you need to leave them alone. Mr. Ray Ferguson, I own two businesses here one is the Old Towne Escape Room and the other is Boppers Malt Shop. I moved here about 5 years ago. As a military person who was moving for the 5th time. And here’s the question that I am going to ask you people right now…Are you even thinking about the soldiers that are just right across the river? The reason why I say that is because you need to think about those soldiers. There are a lot of places that they can go. They do come down here to Petersburg and they love to come down here. Now I know that a lot of stuff happened during the Civil War, and we are branded that way. But why not rebrand Petersburg to a food and entertainment district? To where we keep stuff open until 3-4 in the morning. And that way then people can come down here and have a great time, and then we can advertise that on the weekends we are open until 3 or 4 o’clock in the morning and people can come down here and have some fun. For the citizens who live here, you come down for the party life, because if not, you are looking at a death of a thousand cuts. With the high taxes that we have here right now, the real estate taxes, the sales taxes, and everything else, there are some problems here. Again, you are looking at a death of a thousand cuts. You do this, and you might as well force Petersburg to just close. Mr. Shawn Stuart, Sycamore and Bollingbrook, I have pondered all day to see if I was going to get up and speak. I frequent a lot of the places in Old Towne, and I have been blessed to meet some great friends. My friend Ernie, who owns Beaunuts, has not been here that long. But I know that I can go down there and with a little musical talent I can pick on a guitar and find myself singing. Whether I buy a doughnut or not, I know that I can go down there and enjoy some friendship. I also have had the pleasure of working at Kat’s Alibi. And just to piggyback a little bit off of what the gentleman said about us raising $17,000 for the little girl who needed it… me and a lot of my friends worked shifts, sometimes double shifts, for free. We gave up our wages, our tips to help someone in need. That’s what Old Towne Petersburg does. And these are the people that y’all are trying to shut down. I am sorry but I get a little tired every time I get on social media and some politician somewhere is trying to take away my rights and my freedoms, trying to tell me something that I should, and I shouldn’t do. Get a shot, wear a mask, don’t do this do that. Come on, with the city this is discriminatory. If you are not going to shut down Taco Bell or Arby’s, you need to keep your hands off these people. If you do not treat everyone the same, it’s discrimination. See discrimination is not just black or white, straight, or gay, rich or poor, this is discriminating. And might I add that the very people who elected you are the very ones that are being affected by you. Let those who voted for you have a voice sometimes. Let’s stop worrying about casting votes and cast our character on our fellow man. If you can’t fool one, then you can’t fool none. 16 Mr. Burnette, I am here on behalf of several businesses including Paradise Restaurant. I am also a VSU graduate. Petersburg does not have much nightlife and so from a student’s point of view, unless you go to Richmond, Petersburg does not have much and if you shut down at 11:00 there is really no where else for us to go. So, from a college standpoint I look at that from when I went to college. There is nowhere that student can go to have fun. What you are doing is now affecting a college and university. You are not only affecting the university. I don’t want to have to drive to Richmond. I like drinking too and I do not want to have to drive all the way back from Richmond. Whereas these places are within walking distance of my home. Also, from a business point of view if you force them to close at 11 that is a difference of two hours. So, when you are looking at a week, that adds up. And that is money out of someone else’s pocket. I am sure that you understand, but of that money goes elsewhere that is tax dollars out of Petersburg’s pocket. And then those people are not going to want to live in Petersburg because there is nothing for you to do in Petersburg. So why would I buy in Petersburg if I had to close at 11? But if I knew that I could close at 2 now my business model is different with that location. I guess all I am saying is when y’all decide on whatever y’all decide, make a decision. If you are going to close at 11 don’t do it on Friday and Saturday. Weekday that’s fine but there has to be an agreement on both sides and not just one side. That is all I have to say. Mr. Lawrence Gordon Sr., born and raised in Petersburg. This is my home. This is my heart. As you can see, I am also a veteran. What I have to say is going to be redundant and I am just going to repeat what everyone else has said. I am part of one of the and probably the oldest club in Petersburg. But with our good rapport with the police department, we have never had an issue. We have been compliant, we have paid our taxes, and all we ask is that you leave things the way they are. I would like to leave with asking each and everyone of you this question…Do you want residents to uproot and leave and go somewhere else. Do you want residents to leave and go spend their money in other cities? Dr. Terry L Jackson, 201 N. Sycamore St., I grew up around here well really Prince George, but around here. My mother has always had her business on Sycamore St. I am 48 years old and my whole life I have been coming to the area. I left to go to University of North Carolina and then on to Stanford. Before I had to come home to help my mother take care of my stepfather, who has Parkinson’s. So, I lived in Silicon Valley for a few years, and I visited all around. When I left my mother told me to not come back to Petersburg. I have spent time in all the establishments downtown and now I am actually bar tending at Andrades. I do not have a need to work or anything, but I did so because I started to see change in Petersburg. And I started to visit with people, and I was like, thank you there are people. I started to visit the various places and I saw what was going on there. I have never seen a place where I have seen African Americans from the surrounding community as well as some of the older students from VSU and it’s a beauty environment. I also live two blocks away. And I will say this…there has been some change in the noise level. 17 Ms. Sarah Melissa Witiak, 22 Centre Hill Ct, I would like to piggyback on to what Mr. Cuthbert said…regarding this ordinance and the definition. I am really having a hard time trying to understand why you want to use these powers. We have a separate noise ordinance. We want to regulate what is happening in various businesses. But the hours don’t seem to make much sense to me. For instance, if I want to open up a midnight tea place in someplace. Why can’t I have a tea place that opens at midnight? What is wrong with that? I have not heard in any coverage of this the reason for these hours. Do you have any evidence that 11 o’clock is the magic number that will solve a lot of problems if we end at 11? I would just like to add that we had a Fulbright scholar come a visit us the other day and she had never been to Petersburg before. We brought her to Petersburg late at night and her eyes lit up when she saw the restaurants open late. That the memory that she will take home from Petersburg. With that she also got to know American Culture. And get to know a very social place here in Virginia and in the United States. So please don’t close everything at 11 o’clock. I also am just curious as this is such a strange thing to me. This does not make sense to me. I am a scientist and I do understand the problem that you are trying to solve by having everything closed at 11 p.m. or not allowing anything to be open in the early morning. So why can’t someone have breakfast at 5 a.m.? Maybe someone has the early shift. I don’t know about you guys, but some of those city council meetings go until midnight and if there is no place that I can go and commiserate with people after those city council meetings, I am not sure what I am going to do. Thank you very much. Chair Alexander then closed the public hearing. Director Tabor then explained that the commissioners could do one of three things. 1. To amend the resolution as it is written. 2. Approve the resolution as written. 3. Vote against the resolution. Commissioner Harriston was the first to comment. He said that everyone who had spoken tonight brought up everything that he had said a few weeks earlier when discussing the upcoming hearing. It would be ludicrous to force a restaurant to close at 11:00. He is in favor of restaurants being able to stay open 24 hours. He did his own independent survey of the restaurants in Petersburg and Richmond after midnight and found that most of the ones in Richmond stayed open later than midnight and he does not see why there should be any restrictions put upon them by the city as to the hours that they are allowed to be open. Commissioner Edwards then spoke. Before he spoke on the resolution , he wanted to thank everyone who came and tell them that he had taken 11 pages of notes while everyone spoke and that he truly believes that this is the true Petersburg spirit and the people who came out are the backbone of Petersburg, they stayed through Covid 19, they struggled and yet stayed afloat and for that the city should be forever grateful. So now Petersburg is having a resurgence and is back in business. Commissioner Edwards also did hours of observing and he said that what he has seen is nothing short of miraculous. He said that Petersburg has come back from the brink of financial collapse, and he cannot in good conscious support a resolution 18 like this one and he will not vote for it. He also said that it is time that we set aside the ways of the past and take into consideration that this is now a thriving, progressive city, a hot spot south of Richmond with three connecting interstates, 295, 95, 85. So he put forth the following motion…that restaurants not identified as night clubs, be able to operate with no time restrictions in the capacity to which their ABC license allows. Commissioner Irwin then asked Director Tabor if the motion was sufficient to strike or amend the hours of operation that were in exhibit A. Commissioner Irwin said that he wanted to make sure that what the commissioners wanted was clear and concise. Director Tabor said that the motion should discuss more about what is in exhibit A. Commissioner Edwards then put forth an amendment to the motion, which states that the motion should be attached to exhibit A as adopted by City Council. Commissioner Irwin seconded it. Commissioner Edwards then restated his motion. So, I move that we set in our code as stated from exhibit A with Ordinance 21-ORD-18 as adopted by City Council, that we put no restrictions on the amount of hours that restaurants can serve food providing that they adhere to the law in which their ABC license allows. Commissioner Irwin and Commissioner Harriston both seconded that. Chair Alexander then asked again if any commissioners wanted to have more discussion. When the answer was no, the role was called. The motion was then passed unanimously. B. City Code Amendment 2021-01: Consideration of amendments to the City of Petersburg Code of Ordinances, Chapter 50. Environment Article II. Noise and recommendations to the City Council. WHEREAS, the City Council of the City of Petersburg has requested that the Planning Commission consider and provide a recommendation regarding an amendment to the City Code Noise section; and WHEREAS, the request follows complaints and concerns regarding noise from restaurant uses especially in the City’s downtown area; and WHEREAS, regulations of noise are defined in the City Code Chapter 50. Environment, Article II. Noise and not the City’s Zoning Ordinance, however the City Code does specify permitted noise levels by zoning district; and WHEREAS, a policy declaration in the Code Section 50-31 states, “It is hereby declared to be the public policy of the city to protect its citizens against excessive noise which is detrimental to life, health and enjoyment of property. In order to promote the public health, safety, welfare and the peace and quiet of the inhabitants of the city, the standards in this article relating to noise are hereby adopted.”; and 19 WHEREAS, the City Code was substantially revised with the adoption of 14-Ord-100 on October 21, 2014, and adopted Amendments included: Adding terms under definitions, Removing the Violations of article and Measurement Procedures sections, changing the title of the Loud Noises Prohibited to Specific Prohibitions, replacing the Exemptions section, Animals, Maximum permissible sound levels and prohibitions sections, and adding to the Penalties and Enforcement Section; and WHEREAS, pursuant to the requirements of Title 15.2-2204 of the Code of Virginia, as amended, this is a public hearing to consider approval of the Zoning Ordinance Text Amendments, and the public hearing was advertised, in accordance with applicable laws. Director Tabor made a presentation about the noise ordinance. PURPOSE: To consider a resolution recommending an amendment to the City Code Chapter 50. Environment, Article II. Noise. RECOMMENDATION: It is recommended that the Planning Commission considers a resolution recommending a City Code amendment to the City Council regarding Noise in the City of Petersburg. BACKGROUND: The City Council of the City of Petersburg has requested that the Planning Commission consider and provide a recommendation regarding an amendment to the City Code Noise section. The request follows complaints and concerns regarding noise from restaurant uses especially in the City’s downtown area. The City’s Zoning Ordinance does not include regulations regarding noise however references to the Zoning Ordinance are included in the Noise Ordinance, and maximum decibel readings are defined by Zoning Districts Classification. Regulations of noise are defined in the City Code Chapter 50. Environment, Article II. Noise and not the City’s Zoning Ordinance, however the City Code does specify permitted noise levels by zoning district. A policy declaration in the Code Section 50-31 states, “It is hereby declared to be the public policy of the city to protect its citizens against excessive noise which is detrimental to life, health and enjoyment of property. In order to promote the public health, safety, welfare and the peace and quiet of the inhabitants of the city, the standards in this article relating to noise are hereby adopted.” The City Code was substantially revised with the adoption of 14-Ord-100 on October 21, 2014. Adopted Amendments included: • • Adding terms under definitions • • Removing the Violations of article and Measurement Procedures sections • • Changing the title of the Loud Noises Prohibited to Specific Prohibitions • • Replacing the Exemptions section, Animals, Maximum permissible sound levels and prohibitions sections • • Adding to the Penalties and Enforcement Section The City’s Current Code includes Chapter 50. Environment, Article II. Noise – Eight (8) Sections: • • 50-31. Declaration of Policy • • 50-32. Definitions • • 50-33. Specific Prohibitions • • 50-34. Exemptions • • 50-35. Animals • • 50-36. Maximum Permissible Sound Levels Generally 20 • • 50-37. Penalty and Enforcement • • 50-38. Severability Definitions included in the Code; Section 50-32 are as follows: • • A-weighted decibel – sound level in decibels measured with a sound level meter using the ANSI weighting network or scale. ( • • ANSI – American National Standards Institute, Inc. • Daytime o 7:00 a.m. – 10:00 p.m. Weekdays o 9:00 a.m. – 10:00 p.m. Weekends and Holidays • Decibel – sound pressure level or intensity • Noise - any steady-rate or impulsive sound that disturbs persons or that causes or tends to cause an adverse effect on humans. • Sound - an oscillation in pressure, particle displacement, particle velocity or other physical parameter, in a medium with internal forces that causes compression and rarefaction of that medium. The description of sound may include any characteristic of such sound, including duration, intensity and frequency. Specific prohibitions included in the Code; Section 50-33 are as follows: • • Operating a sound-producing device (radio, tv, etc.) heard between 11:00 p.m. and 7:00 a.m. in another dwelling or heard 50 or more feet from the device with exceptions of public recreation facilities or public events. • • To allow noise between 10:00 p.m. and 7:00 a.m. that can be heard in another dwelling or heard 50 or more feet from the noise. • • Operating a sound-producing device outside a commercial establishment heard on a public sidewalk or street with exceptions (paging personnel, school bells, alarms, etc.) • • Using a device to produce unnecessary noise for advertising, except at licensed events. • • Operating a sound-producing device (radio, tv, etc.) within a motor vehicle that can be heard 50 feet from the vehicle except emergency communications or alarms. • • To create noise associated with refuse waste collection in residential areas between 10:00 p.m. and 7:00 a.m. except areas zoned mixed use. • • To create noise disturbance associated with landscaping activities or building repair or construction across a residential property line between 10:00 p.m. and 7:00 a.m. • • Operating equipment used in construction in any residential district within 100 yards of an occupied dwelling between the hours of 10:00 p.m. and 7:00 a.m. on weekdays and 10:00 p.m. and 9:00 a.m. on weekends and holidays. Chair Alexander then called for everyone who wanted to speak on the noise ordinance to line up along the wall. Mr. Larry Hoe, Grove Ave- I have lived out on Grove Ave for the past 10 years. There are some people out there who cause my family and I a lot of problems. There are a group of students that live out there that then invite more people over and they make a lot of noise. I have called the police and have talked to the lieutenant, and nothing is being done. I have called the police after watching the police drive past the people causing these problems. The most recent incident was Halloween night going into November 1 (2021). I have to get up at 5:00 in the morning, go to work (got to be there at 21 6:00). My son has to get up at 7:00 got to be at school at 8:00. Now at 1:00 in the morning, neighbors, inviting people who do not even live there, partied. I have lived there for 10 years. Now I called the police that night. I did not see nobody. And that makes a citizen very frustrated. That people come into our neighborhood, disrupting me and my family. There is also a business right across the street from me. And I talked to him one day. It’s a married couple. And I talked to the husband one day. He asked me how I felt about all the noise because he was pissed off too. It is so loud. By the way I do have a video if y’all would like to hear a video. (Chair Alexander said that it was fine they did not need to see the video.) Okay, well the worst night was a Friday or a Saturday. They invited a DJ into the back yard. The restaurant down the street, they aren’t disrupting my family, it’s the people next door that come and carry on, messing up our neighborhood, smoking drugs, drinking. I call the police to tell them, and nothing being done. This is all that I have to say, because something needs to be done because we are suffering in our own homes. And it is bad that these people can be invited over at any time. It happened Halloween night. It has happened several nights and days. I have talked to the lieutenant and there is a police record. There have been a lot of phone calls. Me and my wife have been calling. The police say call so that the record can be against the place. But it doesn’t do me any good. That is all that I have to say. Something has to be done about it. Ms. Victoria Brown, 56 Grayson Street, I just wanted to get on the record for this issue as well. So, you know, noise I get it and whatnot. But I do want to be clear to differentiate between commercial areas and residential areas for complaints and such. Like I said I got that information from the Police Department and that of the 500+ noise complaints (for all of 2021) there were only 18 for Old Towne. What I do not want to have happen is that noise is being used to attack businesses. And we don’t want businesses being closed down by someone coming out and sharing the decibel levels. I would like to kind of know a little bit more about that information and see how fitting that would be in practice rather than just pass this without an understanding the numbers. You say that you looked into Lynchburg’s and other place’s numbers (Commissioner Hairston—Winchester, Alexandria, Lynchburg). So, I kind of want to where are we sitting out now and what is the goal for everyone that is seated here. Thank you. Mr. Jeffrey Fleming, 1819 Chuckatuck Ave, once again this is the opinion of Jeffrey Fleming the citizen, not in anyway am I speaking in my official capacity. Noise…A gentleman earlier said that we live in a city and there is going to be noise. We do not live in Dinwiddie County. We do not live in Surry County. We do not live in Prince George County. We live in the City of Petersburg. There has to be several places that there is going to be noise. Take right now out in Lee Park with the basketball tournament. Every evening I can sit in my back yard, and I can hear the guy talking and hear music. I don’t complain. It gives the people, the citizens who are recreating something to do in the park. I am not going to complain about the noise. (As a train goes past the train station) NOISE. There is noise in the City of Petersburg. Yes, we have to address it. But I think from the commission standpoint the commission needs to have a zone for nightlife. And like I said earlier, people walk around downtown. They use downtown. Just like the houses in Dinwiddie next to the racetrack. They knew that the racetrack was there and what do they do at a racetrack? They race cars. You can hear the racetrack at my house. So, 22 there is going to be noise. There are complaints about the noise. I heard a councilman say that we need to do something about the noise. But we live in a city—let’s be clear. As Commissioner Edwards said, we have to get away from the 70s and 80s. If we want to be a progressive city and grow. If you keep these old laws, and the old good old boys’ ways, the city is not going to move forward and in a way that hurts the city. I have seen time after time, and I will say it again…they shoot themselves in the foot. Yes, there is noise. What about the car that goes boom, boom, boom? That is noise. How are you going to, I mean we need something…an entertainment district. The way I see this, this is a way to go after the restaurants, using the noise. If you are a restaurant noise really shouldn’t become a problem because then your activities are more like a nightclub and not a restaurant. If you are a restaurant noise shouldn’t really bother you and shouldn’t really be a problem. You have to address the problem. And not just put out blanket laws. Thank you. Mr. DJ Payne, owner of DJ’s Rajun Cajun, Wabi Sabi, etc. I do have music in my patio until 11:00. We do have decimeters and the dreaded cell phone decimeter. But I have been affiliated with places that have had decimeters from a reputable company. And they work. They give you an accurate reading for the noise level. I am not saying to rid of all the music before 2:00. When I came here two years ago before City Council, and it was about two years ago, and they were wanting to stop all music out on the patio by 9:00 I was like wait a minute this is the beginning of the season, and I couldn’t have that. What I am saying is that I want a fair noise ordinance. I’m not saying let’s not have music until 1:30 or 2:00 in the morning. You can still have music on your patio but ban the DJ after 11:00. We can compromise we can have music on my Bose speaker just not a DJ and still have it on the patio after 11:00. The loud music is part of living in the city if you choose to live there. Yes, we use meters, and it is a good measurement. I say if we are looking for a good compromise, turn it down at 11:00. It should not be so loud as to vibrate the walls off. So, I am all about a fair noise ordinance, not a no noise ordinance. And this blasting until 2:00 in the morning…I could blast just as much, but I choose not to, because a lot of my patrons live across the street, and they have to get to work, and it is just respect on my part. Its what I choose to do for the community that I love and am invested in, and I am still in Petersburg. But with the noise ordinance part, this needs to be a fair compromise. Thank you very much for your time. Mr. Joe Battison, 600 W Wythe Street, I have a couple of reviews of my properties that I would like to give to the Commission. I am not opposed to music but there is one real offender in the city. There have been many complaints and it is the same location time after time after time. I am sure that one gentleman said that they got readings of 125 decibels at the corner of Bollingbrooke and Sycamore it does not surprise me. It comes from this one particular location. We just need to enforce the existing laws and we would be fine. We just need to clean that one up. All the other venues in this city either meet that ordinance or actually surpass it. There is really no problems with any other, other than that one. This problem arises because that one refuses to keep the volume down. If we could just come back around enforce the law, I think we would be fine. I have multiple Airbnb’s in the area that I have no problems with. The only 23 one that I have problems with is the one across the alley and its because of the same problem that the Farmer’s Bank building has and the same problem that the neighbors on Sycamore Street have. If I can come up Bollingbrooke and up Sycamore past Alibis and can STILL hear this one locations music, there is serious need to look at the one location. That is the only problem. If we could get them to bring the music down, we would have a perfect Old Towne. Because I don’t want to see any time change. I don’t want to see any decibel change. I just want to see that what we have is enforced so that we can make it a great city. Read those reviews and you will see that these people from out of town say great things about our restaurants and our community. And I can show you dozens and dozens of reviews that I have…literally hundreds of them. And they are positive about the city. So please let’s not mess it up. I am for Petersburg 110% but we just have to pick one bad apple. Thank you very much. Ms. Denise Tipton, owner of Old Towne Studio 7 at 20 West Old Street, and I am speaking as a business owner and not for Main Street Petersburg this time. This time we are talking about sound, and I am not sure what all those numbers mean, but it doesn't seem that we should be any different than Charlotte, or anything like that. I am not sure if they need to be changed or not, but what I do know is that the laws we have should be enforced. I do know that there should be some sort of measurement of the sound from the source of the sound to the streets or the nearby residences. I think that the business owners and the other owners, the ones that hold property I think that that counts for a lot. But even if you rent, you are still part of the community. And so, I don’t think that you should just discount all of their opinions either. I just think that it should be fair, and I think that people should be made to abide by the rules that are already in place. Thank you Mr. Charlie Cuthbert, 132 S Adams St, I have read and studied the proposed ordinances that you have before you and I think it strikes a fair balance interests of the restaurants and the interests of the residents. I think that we can all agree that the proposal in front of you strikes a fair balance. I want to give you a printout to make sure that you have this in front of you. It is a printout out of an email from Mr. DJ Payne who spoke previously. Mr. Payne’s email…I wanted to bring it to your attention. In the email he said, “based on my experience, loud music after 11pm attracts the wrong crowd to Old Towne”. I do not know how many of you remember the problems we used to have, but it was not acceptable. I do not want that environment to exist again. I have also, madame chair if I may give these to you, those are copies of the email that David Payne sent to me. Also, as a member of City Council, I welcome the opportunity to respond to constituent complaints and I have received several constituent complaints about noise from residents on North Sycamore, on Bollingbrooke, on Grove Ave and several other streets. This just shows that we need a noise ordinance, and it needs to be fair, and it needs to be balanced. So that we can reconcile competing interests. I thank you for allowing me to speak in front of you today and I wish you good luck. Thank you. Mr. Harold Brown, 56 Grayson Street, I am the owner of a restaurant and bar. And about this noise ordinance that we are making an issue of…I think that we are making too much about 24 decibel readings…But I do think that there should be a difference between the residential and the commercial districts. I am not sure how to go about doing that, but I just know that there should be a difference based upon the zoning of the property or something. The number should not be for the whole city of Petersburg. Thank you Jen Lowrey, 26B W Old Street, right in the middle of the part y’all are talking about. I feel like I have some roots in this community. I volunteer at the Farmer’s Market and several other things. I feel like this should be a logical thing. The area that we are talking about at the corner of Sycamore and Bollingbrook. Sometimes the sound is obviously above 110 decibels. Sometimes it rattles my windows and that is not logical to me. The sound also causes people to go out into the street so that when I am coming home, I cannot get home safely. There are so many people in the street I either have to back up and go around or I have to roll down my windows and ask people to move, which is not a safe thing to do. I feel like it is on me as a resident to keep everyone safe and to me that is not a logical thing. I still feel like I deserve to be safe. I pay to live here, I pay my rent every month, and I just feel like I should be safe. Around my place late at night there are lots of people out in the road, the cars are not parked properly, and I think that if a noise ordinance was applied logically and kept at like 75 or even 100, I would probably not even hear it. But the noise makes people do crazy things. Maybe if we enforced the ordinance and ticketed places then that might be logical. Mr. Timothy Brown, 56 Grayson Street, I feel this ordinance is not only unfair but also I see this as a personal attack on businesses like myself and my family. It is unfair. It is hard for me to book a band and then tell them that they cannot go above a certain decibel level when I have no other reason to do so. I feel like this is just a blanketed statement to attack businesses who … well let me just say this. I do no think that it is the volume of the music that is the issue and I do not think it’s the dancing I think that it’s the type of music and the type of dancing. When residents of Old Towne see that, they get fearful. And to me this is more of a larger problem of this mixed residential area. Thank you Mr. Rigoberto Prarda, owner of Andrade’s International Restaurant, it is no fair when people make complaints everyone gets to hear their voice, but no one gets to hear mine. That is why I am here, so you can hear my voice. I have put a lot of money into my business. Hundreds of thousands of dollars. I put a lot of money into the building. When I bought it, it was filled with termites. Just into the building alone I have put over $400,000. It is not just what you see on the walls but so much more. This noise ordinance is killing business and it is killing Petersburg. There is no other place in Petersburg where these people can go for entertainment in Petersburg. Please think about things like that before making a decision. Thank you Dr. Terry Jackson, 201 North Sycamore Street, so I have been thinking about the situation. So, there are two parts to this. There are the businesses that this is an important part of their bottom line. And there are people who live in the area as well. Andrade’s and Rajun Cajun can both be heard from the parking lot of my building. All these places are places that African American go to and enjoy their nightlife. It isn’t that they are excluded from the other places, 25 but that they don’t play the music they want to hear. The more people you have the more it gets louder and the higher the music gets. It seems to me that we must limit how many African Americans there are in one place. Mr. Joseph Traicheler, 22 Centre Hill I used to work in healthcare and in epidemiology. These levels that we are discussing are all reasonable. They are all under 70-80 decibels. Which is reasonable. When we are discussing over 100 or 125 decibels that is not reasonable. You cannot work in a factory at that level because if you did you would lose your hearing. If we are going to have regulations that say that we are not to go that high, say 125, then it needs to be enforceable. There are also other things that the city can do to improve the noise. One of those things could be to encourage more green spaces. You could have green zones as apposed to commercial zones as apposed to residential zones. Thank you Ms. Sarah Melissa Witiak, 22 Centre Hill I also live in downtown. There are times that I have listened to my music loud and there are times that I have had my opera up to 10. There is some music which is determined that it is not allowed and there is some music which is treated more available than others. There are certain types of music that are allowed to be loud to some people and to others. So, when we are discussing ordinances, it is not a certain area or a certain type of music. I live right next door to the post office, and they get their trucks in at 4 am and I do not need an alarm to wake up every morning. So perhaps the planning commission should start to think about adding residential zoning to places that have historically been businesses. I know that we are talking about Bank Street…So between Bank and Henry. We need to think about the different pieces and how they work together. We need to work on the intersection between the commercial and the residential area. How do we manage those areas? Because that is where a lot of these problems come from. I know that certain areas have lower noise ordinances in those areas which are mixed use, and we have more intensive business area and whether is it for music or whether it is for industry or the post office. Perhaps we can think about how to manage those ordinances in a way that can then fit together like pieces in a puzzle. So that everybody has a place to live, and everybody has a place to do things that they enjoy. And all of this is not easy, I understand. But I think in the end if you think about all these pieces and how they fit together, we will have a lovely, lovely city here in Petersburg. Thank you very much. Mr. Robert Still, 43 South Market Street, I would just like to speak about two things. One, I am up late at night, and I do no hear any of the music at my house although I have a traffic light in front of my house and my windows rattle all the time from cars. On several occasions this past year I did make it a point to stay downtown late and I would stand at the corner of Bollingbrook and Sycamore Street and from that vantage point I could hear music coming from three different locations. One was (I believe) Alibis, one was Rajun’s patio, and one was Andrades. So, it’s not like Andrades music was drowning out everything else. I do think that there should be some limit on how loud the noise level should be. However, I do want to say that I have listened to the people here tonight comment and disparage Andrades. I have a liver condition; 26 I have to limit my iron intake and I eat at Andrades several times a week. They make me special meals. Rigo also feeds homeless people, he supports various churches when they have various functions. And one other thing, the majority of the people complaining are saying that we all know who the problem is. This is a business that caters to a majority black crowd; he majority of the people making complaints were white. Thank you. Mr. Craig Smith, 517 High Street, I have a job that has taken me all over, some big cities and some small. One thing that I always find is that music attracts people. No matter what kind of music, it always attracts people. Do we want to be like Beal Street in Memphis, Broadway in Nashville, or does Petersburg really want to be like Winchester and Lynchburg? That’s it. Chair Alexander then thanked everyone for coming out to the public hearing. And called for some discussion amongst the commissioners. Commissioner Harriston was the first to speak. He said that he did not believe that we have a noise problem since there were only 18 noise complaints from downtown area and only 10 of them for one business. He also explained that he had been in the entertainment business for the last half of his life and that he is worried about “buzz words”. Buzz words like music attracts the wrong crowd… He went out and hung out in the areas that people were complaining about, and he saw a youthful black crowd and never once felt unsafe. One thing he did want to mention is that according to the National Institute of Hearing, a whisper is 30 Db, normal talking is 60 Db, a lawnmower is 90 Db, a movie theater is 80 Db, the average concert is 100. So, if Petersburg is wanting to move forward and have some sort of nightlife and have concerts here and have any night clubs here…first of all, we need a change because nowhere are there nightclubs that are quieter than a movie theater. It seems to me that the only times you hear these conversations is when black people congregate. Whenever anyone starts pulling out the decibel meters it involves black people. So, if we are going to become one big international city that everyone comes together, we have to accept the fact that there will be black people partying in this city. With a population that is 80% black, then the businesses here should cater to everyone and especially black people. When I came to Andrades at 1:00 am, everyone was well behaved, security checked me into the club, no one knew who I was, I was just a patron with no special treatment. In there I never felt threatened, and I never felt unsafe. I thought that they were some of the most well-behaved club attendees that I had ever seen. I believe that we should keep it exactly the way it is and have the police department actually enforce the laws. Or at least fall in line with Richmond which would mean, outdoors it would actually go up. So, if we are going to do any changes we need to fall in line with Richmond. Commissioner Irvin then spoke and said that with a reference to Richmond that in Richmond you cannot have outdoor seating or noise between the hours of 11 pm and 7 am. You can take the noise inside, but you cannot have it outside. He said that he did not know if that was a race 27 thing or not since Richmond is also majority black too. He said that he wants everything to be as fair as possible and he believes in order to be fair, we must enforce the laws as we have them now. Commissioner Hairston then made a point that one can scream loud at church but not a nightclub. The City can run a loudspeaker at night but not a business. So, The City is saying that they are wanting to limit business but then they can do the same things themselves. Commissioner Edwards then asked Director Tabor who wrote this? Director Tabor answered that it was generated by staff. Commissioner Hairston then made a motion to fall in line with Richmond…making it Petersburg daytime inside decibels 65 outside 75 and Petersburg nighttime inside decibels 55 outside 65. This was immediately seconded by Commissioner Edwards. Chair Alexander then said that a motion was made and seconded. Then Commissioner Harrison made an amended motion which said daytime residential 65/75, nighttime residential 55/65, agriculture would be 65/55, RNB would be 70/60, PUD 70/60, mixed used would be 75/65, business would be 75/65, and industrial would be 79/70. Commissioner Edwards then asked for clarification. Daytime hours are 7 am to 11 pm and nighttime hours are 11 pm to 7 am. And then with that clarification he seconded the motion. Commissioner Edwards wanted to have a few words before the vote was actually taken. He said that he wanted it on the record that no one on the commission was against any business. He said that we all have to follow the laws as set forth by commissions, City Council and the State. There has to be a law on the books so that the police officers have something that they can enforce. Right now, by virtue of the City Council they have suspended the enforcement of the noise ordinances. So, this is not an attack on any business this is just righting a wrong and giving something then that can be enforced. We all want businesses to thrive, and I just want to be clear that this commission is not attacking any businesses. We just want to make sure that there are things in place to be enforced. A vote was taken, and the motion passed unanimously. 7. Old Business: Chair Alexander asked if there was any old business… there was not. 8. New business: Chair Alexander asked if there was any new business…there was not. 28 Announcements: Chair Alexander then asked if there were any announcements…there were not. Adjournment: This special meeting was adjourned at 10:20 p.m. 29