City Council

CITY OF SARATOGA SPRINGS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL MEETING CITY COUNCIL ROOM THURSDAY, AUGUST 1, 2002 7:00 P.M. PRESENT: Commissioner Thomas Curley, DPS Kenneth Klotz, Mayor Commissioner Michael Lenz, Finance Commissioner Thomas McTygue, DPW Commissioner Stephen E. Towne, Accounts STAFF PRESENT: Bruce Brown, Deputy Commissioner, DPW Deborah Harper, Deputy Commissioner, Accounts Bob King, Deputy Commissioner, DPS Hank Kuczynski, Deputy Mayor Jeff Wait, City Attorney CALL TO ORDER B PUBLIC HEARING ON VANDALISM Mayor Kenneth Klotz called the public hearing to order at 7:00 p.m. Mayor Kenneth Klotz said this was a special meeting to allow the public to have an informal opportunity to speak on the vandalism and theft that has occurred over the last several weeks in the City. He said tonight was for ideas and comments only and there would be no formal actions or decisions by the Council Commissioner Thomas Curley said he was pleased to announce tonight that the three individuals who stole one of the horses from the downtown area had been arrested this evening. He said the horse had been found in Schoharie Creek a while ago. Commissioner Thomas Curley commended the City Police Department and the Amsterdam Police Department for the intermuncipal cooperation in solving this crime. He said this is the second successful arrest in these thefts. Commissioner Michael Lenz asked if alcohol was a factor. Commissioner Thomas Curley said he did not yet have the details, therefore, could not answer at this time. Joe Dalton said in the past, the City has had problems with vandalism and it is likely to happen again. He said vandalism occurs when there are large groups. He said in the past, the Downtown Business Association has placed money into a reward fund, which at the discretion of the police department, is awarded to individuals who provide information to the police department in connection with certain crimes. He said it does not need to result in an arrest and/or conviction. Joe Dalton said the downtown establishments have been working the City to reduce the underage drinking, drugs and noise. He said the DBA has cooperated with the Police Department whenever possible on turning down the volume of music, confiscating fake identification, etc. He said this late in the season it would be difficult for the City to make significant changes to closing hours of the restaurants/bars. He said it was his understanding that the cooperation of the county might be necessary to change those hours. Mayor Kenneth Klotz said it seemed as though there were both long and short term solutions. Joe Dalton agreed saying the owners of downtown businesses were willing to work with the City to curtail this vandalism. Commissioner Thomas Curley distributed a list of recommendations which could, if implemented, assist in decreasing the vandalism. He said the Chamber could be asked to facilitate in discussions between the bar owners and appropriate representatives, a neighborhood watch group could be formed, local cab companies could be more watchful, temporary employees could be hired, reward funds could be utilized and video surveillance could be used. Joe Dalton said the Chamber could facilitate discussions between the City and bar owners. Commissioner Michael Lenz said the Finance Department would be willing to establish and maintain the reward fund. Commissioner Thomas Curley noted that Assemblymen Roy McDonald and Jim Tedisco have both contributed $500 to that reward fund. John Baker, Gaffney=s owner, said he was opposed to closing the restaurants/bars earlier. He said it would only hurt the employees through reduced pay checks. He said it is unfortunate there has been vandalism, however, it was only Page 1 of 5 City of Saratoga Springs Special City Council Meeting Minutes Thursday, August 1, 2002 a few incidents which have been blown out of proportion. He said with the amount of people in the City, the proportion of vandalism is not great. He said he was opposed to closing the restaurants/bars earlier. Jim Hogan said he employs between 25 and 30 people in the downtown area and he has a good feel for what is going on in the City. He said there needs to be more police presence in the downtown area. He said the existing police force does a good job, however, there many more than 25,000 people in the downtown area on many occasions over the season. He also questioned the judgement of the Arts Council for placing these horses in the downtown area. He questioned whether they really thought this through and whether they considered there might be vandalism. He pointed out that the police department has hired additional officers, however, they cannot be expected to watch these horses all the time. He said he was also concerned that whenever there was vandalism it was assumed that it was liquor related. He said closing the bars at 2:00 a.m. was not the answer. He also pointed out that the problems in this City are not anything like those of larger cities. Bob Israel said the restaurants/bars are an important part of this City, but they are not the only part. He said we need to maintain our quality of life in the City. He said there is a great mixed use in the downtown area with millions of assessed dollars and the City needed to be careful to not cause the demise of the vibrant downtown area. He said the Council needs to find the right balance between the downtown businesses and the residential areas. He said he has lived on Circular Street for 25 years and loud music is also part of the problem. He said he would like to see the bars close earlier and a better ordinance concerning noise. Joan Desidora, The Parting Glass owner, said she previously owned a restaurant in Lexington, Kentucky. She said they had horses such as these around that town and they had the same problems. She said closing the bars earlier is not the solution. She suggested that the penalties be increased and that they become felonies. She said the bars in Lexington close at 1:00 a.m. and they still had these problems. Greg Benton, DPW flower crew, said there has been a lot of damage this year. He said Saturday mornings are terrible for his crew cleaning up the broken glass & vomit, repairing the flower beds, etc. He said perhaps the answer was to close the bars earlier. He suggested the City look to other cities to see what has been done. Andrew Brindisi, Brindisi=s Restaurant, said this is a beautiful community. He said he caters to an upscale clientele and generally has a band that plays from about 10:00 p.m. to 2:00 p.m. He said after his place closes he walks around to others to see what is going on. He suggested that the business owners and employees keep their eyes open for what is happening. He said the business community needs to work together with the police department and he would be willing to help participate in any committees that are formed. He said the City has a great police department but we need to help each other out. Dale Easter, Professor Moriarty=s, said the economic impact of closing two hours earlier would be significant. He said it not only hurts his business, but it has a great deal of effect on his employees. He said the Council should think long and hard before taking such a measure. Mary Huber encouraged the Council to consider a neighborhood watch program. She said citizens would be interested in helping to maintain the beauty of the City. Kenneth Bellows said in the last couple of years the vandalism has increased. He agreed that the Chamber should act as the facilitator between the City and the downtown business owners. He suggested that there be a review of the arrest records and vandalism reports to see if there is a correlation. He said perhaps there was no connection between alcohol and vandalism but it should be investigated. He said there are 69 police officers in the police department and they cannot be expected to watch the horses. He said he hoped that some committees would be set in place to review this issue. Commissioner Thomas Curley said the complaints for the disorderly conduct, etc., have been going down over the last few years. He said in 1998 there were 631 complaints; 1999 -- 548 complaints; 2000 -- 525 complaints; 2001 -- 413 complaints and they are down so far in 2002. Page 2 of 5 City of Saratoga Springs Special City Council Meeting Minutes Thursday, August 1, 2002 Cheryl Keyrouze said there are other communities that have sculptures around and she suggested that the City find out what they do to limit their vandalism. She also noted that any damage that could be done at 4:00 a.m. could also be done at 2:00 a.m. Ameo Amoyt, Woodlawn Avenue, said she has had six sculptures stolen from her over the last eight years. She pointed out though that she lives near Skidmore. She suggested that a better securing system be looked at by perhaps using four bolts rather than two. She also noted that the general public has no idea of the amount of time that an artist puts into one of these projects. Jim Hogan said he was willing to donate $1,000 toward the reward fund and encouraged other business owners to do the same. Ron Farber said the restaurants/bars have a unique vantage point and they should be able to assist the police department in watching for vandalism. He said all citizens and business owners need to be more responsible. Commissioner Thomas McTygue asked when the bars actually have last call and close. Jim Hogan said at his establishment all customers are out by 4:00 a.m. Commissioner Thomas McTygue said there is a tremendous amount of hours spent in cleaning up the City on Saturday and Sunday mornings. He said there is a serious problem in the parking lots with cases upon cases of empty beer bottles. He said it is likely that the underage crowd is hanging out in the parking lots drinking. He said it was a good suggestion that restaurant/bar owners keep an eye out on each other. Commissioner Thomas Curley said the parking lots are patrolled by the police department. Dee Sarno, Executive Director of the Saratoga County Arts Council, said the police department has been very helpful during this time. She said this is a very unique community with the arts, flowers, dance, theater, etc. all of which are an integral part. She said perhaps between the citizens and the Council a solution could be found. She said perhaps there was a compromise between the 2:00 a.m. and 4:00 a.m. closing time. She said she had talked to other communities that had displays such as this horse display and they said it was unusual for the displays to be stolen. Judge Mills, City Court, said he could not comment on potential cases, however noted that the horses were considered an Aattractive nuisance@. He said the horses were pools, people would be swimming in them. He said when there is the mixture of alcohol and this type of display it was inevitable that there would be some incidents. He suggested the horses be taken in at night. He said if they are not out there, there could be no damage. Bruce Levinsky said he was one of the first property owners along Broadway to place a full size horse display on the sidewalk. He said he has had a lot of nuisance vandalism with his horse. He agreed that taking the horses inside in the evening might be the answer. He said this City is not unique in having displays such as this and he was opposed to closing the bars at 2:00 a.m. Commissioner Thomas Curley then distributed the press release concerning the arrests made earlier. Lt. Edward Moore, Saratoga Springs Police Department and Det. Lt. Tom DiMezza said there were three individuals involved all from Amsterdam. Lt. Tom DiMezza said while investigating another case Lt. Conroy of his department took a statement from an individual stating that they had been at a party celebrating a friend=s release from jail. Lt. Tom DiMezza said stealing the horse was a prank and the suspects simply did not realize the repercussions of doing so. He said it is likely they will spend time in jail for this prank. He said one of the individuals is a juvenile and will go to family court. Lt. Edward Moore thanked the Amsterdam Police Department for their assistance in solving this crime. He said they have been working for two days on solving this crime. He said both stolen horse cases have now been solved. He said the only outstanding cases were the sunglasses stolen from the horse in front the Urban Heritage Area and the vandalism to the horse in front of City Hall. He said they are still actively pursuing leads in both of those cases. Page 3 of 5 City of Saratoga Springs Special City Council Meeting Minutes Thursday, August 1, 2002 Commissioner Thomas Curley thanked the Amsterdam Police Department for their assistance in solving this crime. He said this City is not necessarily faced with the same types of crimes that surrounding communities have, but this was still a crime that needed to be solved. He said it was a blessing that the Council was not holding a meeting for those more severe crimes. Laura Claussen said the west side has a neighborhood watch program which has been successful and encouraged the Council to consider such a program in the downtown area. She also encouraged the Council to make the penalties more harsh. Beth Donavan said there should be more police officers on duty between 12:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m. not between 4:00 p.m. and 12:00 a.m. Captain Flanagan said there was a third officer placed on duty between 4:00 p.m. and 12:00 a.m. at the request of the downtwon business owners. He said the crowds are quite large and there was some concerns expressed. He said the regular staff is supplemented during the summer months through overtime. He said serving alcohol stops at 4:00 a.m. and the bars are cleared by 4:30. He pointed out that most of the people who come to the downtown create no problems and it was only a very small percentage that actually cause problems. He said the presence of police officers is a deterrent in some cases. He said the police department can try to keep vandalism to a minimum but it cannot be eliminated. Pete Donavan said this is a beautiful City and the police department has been very good about showing up when necessary. He said there is some problem though between the police department and the youth of the City. He said the youth believe that their rights are being disrespected when they are forced to simply move on. He agreed the horses are an attractive nuisance. He said in the process of trying to get a better handle on this situation, the City might be sending the wrong message to the youth. He said simply because they are young does not make them a potential vandal. He said that perhaps the police should cultivate a relationship with the youth. Commissioner Stephen Towne pointed out the Assemblyman Jim Tedisco was in the audience this evening and it was he who provided early seed money for the reward fund. Andrea Rodgers, suggested that the bars stop serving alcohol early and then start serving a buffet. She said that way the drunks could somewhat sober up and the employees could still make money by serving food. Derek DeGall, President, National Little League Association, said vandalism is nothing new. He said the police department has done a good job in responding to the crimes, but vandalism and cannot be eliminated. He suggested that more thought and attention be given to the gangs that are beginning to infiltrate the City. Donna Herrick said she is a young person who spends quite a bit of time in Saratoga Springs. She said in some cases, there is not a lot for the youth to do. She reminded Council members that Spaha was shut down as well as Madeline=s Coffee Shop. She said there needs to be positive alternatives for the youth. Karen Frolish said her family has lived in the City for more than 70 years. She said the police are losing many watchful eyes by forcing the youth to move on. She said it is not the youth who reside in the City who are doing the vandalism but rather individuals from outside this area. She said the youth of this City should be used to help watch. Mayor Kenneth Klotz thanked everyone for coming and participating in this hearing. He said this had been quite helpful and constructive. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business, Mayor Kenneth Klotz adjourned the meeting at 8:15 p.m. Page 4 of 5 City of Saratoga Springs Special City Council Meeting Minutes Thursday, August 1, 2002 Respectfully submitted, Kathy Moran Clerk Page 5 of 5