City Council

CITY OF SARATOGA SPRINGS WATER WORKSHOP SATURDAY, AUGUST 31, 2002 Present: Mayor Kenneth Klotz Commissioner of Finance, Michael Lenz Commissioner of Public Works, Thomas McTygue Commissioner of Public Safety, Thomas Curley Commissioner of Accounts, Stephen E. Towne Also Present: Supervisor Phil Klein Call to Order Mayor Klotz called the meeting to order at 9:02 AM. Mayor Klotz said that this meeting was in response to a request by Commissioner McTygue and Commissioner Towne for council discussion and is open to the public but not as a public hearing. He turned the meeting over to Commissioner McTygue. Commissioner McTygue referred to a letter circulated August 30 that would be sent to Raymond Callanan, Chairman of the County Water Study Committee, and he asked the council if there were any questions. Commissioner Towne asked if there were plans to discuss the letter on the agenda of the next (9/6) City council meeting. Commissioner Towne said that at the suggestion of Mayor Klotz he and Commissioner McTygue met in an attempt to come to agreement to respond to the County on a supplemental water basis and as a primary water basis and to come to an agreement on the volume of water also. He said that in the subsequent conversation, there were a few things to be clarified and explained. Commissioner Towne said that he wanted to clear up the misconception that he wanted to commit to a volume of water far greater than the City’s needs, and in fact the volume of water he has been trying to get the council to commit to is an average minimum amount that came from a report from the engineering firm of Barton & Loguidice, 4.5 million gallons in 2006, which is the year that most would concede would be the year the City would be drawing from the new water source. Commissioner Towne said that there is also a misunderstanding that the majority of the council is encouraging an approach in which the City would be looking to own or subsidize 1 City Council water workshop August 31, 2002 the entire county water project. He said that regardless of the amount of money discussed it was never their intent because it would be fiscally unwise on the part of the County to establish a water project with only one buyer. He said that what the council is attempting to do is determine what the county is going to charge the City. He said that who is obtained as subscribers in the rest of the county is a county issue, but the council wants to know because we cannot go into this thinking that Saratoga Springs is the only subscriber, even if the cost is not ours to bear because this is a county project and the City is merely a buyer of water. Commissioner Towne said he wants to know what the County is going to charge us. He said he now wants to approach the County as if they were our sole and primary water source, using the volume of water coming from Barton & Loguidice, and hopefully the County would be able to return to us a figure after crunching their numbers that would enable us to better gage that option in comparison with other options and have the report tightened down with their figures and integrate it within the body of the DEIS so we have comparability options. Commissioner Towne said he never encouraged buying more water than we need and he is using the figures from Barton & Loguidice, which he hoped Commissioner McTygue was comfortable with that. He referred to a letter drafted by Commissioner McTygue reflected the same figure of 4.5 million gallons in the year 2006. Commissioner Towne said he also wishes to clarify the fact that we are talking about the City being a buyer and not own or subsidize the project. He said he wants to ask the County to share their information about which other municipalities in the County have an interest and at what period of time they have an interest. He said that the City needs to know where the County engaging the viability of this option. He said that they would not propose a fifty million dollars plus project if they only thought they had one buyer and could not assess other potential buyers. He said that the conversation he had with Commissioner McTygue was a good one and worth airing at a workshop with the rest of the council. He said that Commissioner McTygue has subsequently drafted a letter, has shared it with the council for review, and will send it to the County to move the process along. Commissioner McTygue said that there has not been any commitment by any other municipal entities except Wilton, which indicated they might be interested in the future. He said that no one has committed or offered to put up any funds and he wants to know the other participants prior to making any commitments. He said the City is being cautious and rightfully so based on its experience with the County Sewer Authority. He said that they have not been successful in lobbying the County for lower sewer rates. He said sewer bills increased 50% and we do not want the ratepayers in the City to be put in the same position for their water. He said that they are very cautious for the 2 City Council water workshop August 31, 2002 ratepayers in the City, which is understandable especially in consideration of giving up the filtration plant, which is one of the best in upstate New York. Commissioner McTygue commented that there have been letters written from the opposition who have never accepted the concept of us taking this action in the first place, and there have been concerns expressed about the amount of money necessary to upgrade the water plant. Commissioner McTygue explained that the only reason we would have to upgrade the plant is to allow us to pump the future required water volume thirty or forty years from now, which is going to be over eleven million gallons of water. He said that the plant would not have to be upgrades because of neglect, but rather to accommodate the larger volume of water anticipated in the future. Commissioner McTygue said that the water plant is in great shape. He said that the students of Hudson Valley Community College classes pertaining to water come to visit and review the water plant’s pumping operations. He said he is confident in the plant and there has been substantial funds invested to upgrade the facility. He said it is a fine facility and adequate for the City’s present needs. Commissioner McTygue said that the DEIS is a draft document and is not making any commitment to going to Saratoga Lake or any one water source. He said it is a draft document in which the City has made a substantial investment, and now the City owes more money because we have asked for substantial increase in work. He said that they have no problem incorporating the County’s report into the DEIS so it could be released in its entirety. He said this would enable everyone, including SLIPID, Saratoga Lake Association, to have an opportunity to review it and punch holes in it. He said the Health Department, Department of Environmental Conservation, and anyone else the opportunity to review it and come back and report to the City on their findings in reference to that report. He said the document makes no commitment and when you vote to release it you are not voting on going to a particular source, and he feels that by releasing it the City can work side by side with the County, proceeding in our own directions and if it looks like the County is not going to proceed or follow through, we are at least moving the process along to provide water to the citizens of Saratoga Springs. Commissioner McTygue said he would like the opportunity to get the document out in the open and he assured the council that they are not making any commitment in doing so. He said that in reference to recreation on Saratoga Lake that there would be no support from the council if there was any suggestion as to any restriction of recreation on Saratoga Lake. He stated that the City Council has made the commitment to allow recreation on Saratoga Lake to continue. He said that he could assure everyone that there would be no decrease in property values if the lake was selected to be the primary water source. He said he would like to work with the towns, SLIPID and the Saratoga 3 City Council water workshop August 31, 2002 Lake Association towards a clean water program. He said the cleaner the water, the more valuable the property. He said that SLIPID has had a draft report in circulation for awhile and he would like them to come to the council and explain it because there are many things in that report that would be beneficial and significant to what the council has been discussing. He said he wants to declare that no commitments are being made for any one source at this time. Mayor Klotz asked if the cost of decommissioning the water plant would be put fourth for review and Commissioner McTygue said yes, it would be. Mayor Klotz said he would be interested in whether there would be a loss of value because we now have a system that presumably is worth a considerable amount of money and he would be interested in what the loss would be in capital assets if the City shut the plant down. Commissioner McTygue said that at one time the City’s filtration plant was valued at 60 million dollars. Commissioner Towne said that in looking at the cost of decommissioning the plant, it does not become a dead asset, it does have value. He said when they determine what would be the financial impact of closing the plant he would expect that we would net that out against the prospective revenues generated from what they would do with the facility. He said it is a valuable piece of property. Commissioner Towne said that accurate figures are needed as to the amount of money it will take to upgrade the Water Works plant so it could accommodate the future growth of the City and the subsequent increase in water volume. Commissioner Towne said he wants the council to proceed cautiously. He said that the caution on both sides has slowed the process somewhat. He said that the County has been asked to update their report to include all best known events including State and Federal funding for a regional process; and updated for the City’s participation and any prospective water authority, the volume of water that the City would commit to on a sole source basis and any other information that would help us to arrive at an ultimate decision. So that anything that gets integrated into the DEIS would be the most updated information available. Commissioner McTygue said that the information that the County paid Clough Harbor to report is already in the DEIS, but he has no problem with incorporating the County’s document in the DEIS. 4 City Council water workshop August 31, 2002 Commissioner Towne said that there were some discrepancies between the information in the report and subsequent conversations and these must be clarified. He wants the numbers now in cubic feet to be converted into gallons. He said he wants to end the present contradictions in information and statistics such as those that can be found in a recent letter to the editor in the local paper. He said that this figure is not in the DEIS, Commissioner McTygue said he is not interested in letters to the editors, and wants to stick to the issues at hand. Commissioner Towne said that he understands that the City’s current rate per 1000 gallons is $1.34, and part of the public commentary has created the sense that the council would be doing something outrageous. Commissioner McTygue said that we do not know what the numbers would be because much depends upon the bonding rates. Mayor Klotz commented that Barton & Loguidice said the figures would be substantially more. Commissioner McTygue said that is why we are here and being cautious. He said that the Council should get the DEIS out on the street and proceed with the process so the general public is accurately informed. Commissioner Towne said that the impression that accepting the DEIS is procedural and without ramifications is not true. He said that Commissioner McTygue asked him to state what is lacking in the DEIS, and he has come to a conclusion and released it to the council and to area newspapers as well. He said he circulated copies of this editorial to the council members. He said that the consequences of the release of the DEIS are severe because the preference contained within the document is for Saratoga Lake. Therefore, he said, if the council releases the document it would be like putting their rubber stamp of approval on it. He said the document lacks comparability and he has detailed in his commentary eight items that he thinks are needed to tighten the document down. He said he believes it is important that the council understand what the ramifications are. Commissioner McTygue said he would like more time to examine Commissioner’s Towne document. Commissioner Towne said he does not doubt Commissioner McTygue’s intent, and that he agrees the council could take a stand 5-0 that we won’t make an impact on the recreational use of Saratoga Lake, but it is not the council’s call. He said that whether or not recreation could continue on the lake is up to the New York State Health Department. 5 City Council water workshop August 31, 2002 Commissioner McTygue said this is correct and it is the same scenario for the Hudson River, or any body of water. Commissioner Towne added that the reason that Saratoga Lake is a much more visceral issue is that it is in our community. Supervisor Klein asked if, in the future, someone on the Mayor’s staff could let the Supervisors know if there is a meeting. He said he learned about this one from the morning newspaper. He also requested that the supervisors receive any correspondence on this issue. He said he wants to have more workshops, more communication. He said he spoke with Chairman Callanan who indicated that he has started to contact area towns as to whether they would want to be involved, and what volume of water they might commit to. He said that the amount of water would justify their involvement and the system. Supervisor Klein said that he would work to get answers to Commissioner Towne’s questions, and encourages communication in order to end up with a decision that is the right thing to do for the City and the region. Commissioner McTygue said there has always been an open line of communication with neighboring towns, SLIPID, and the Saratoga Lake Association. He said he is willing to be able to communicate with SLIPID and he knows they want to be involved. He said he wants to be communicating and has gone to great extent to provide information and communicate with these other entities and communities. Mayor Klotz asked what time frame they are looking at and would he get different answers in a short- term time frame because the representative was not prepared to answer accurately when the question was posed to them at the last workshop. Supervisor Klein said that there has been more time to prepare and more accurately consider the amount of water these neighboring municipalities need. He explained that the supervisors have now had more time to digest information and give a ball park number of gallons they would need in a specified amount of time. He said for example, Wilton knows now that they would need water. Mayor Klotz asked if it is possible that the County would want to roll the dice at some point. He asked if they would be willing to look at a 20-year scenario. Supervisor Klein said that the County is willing to take those types of gray commitments, things anticipated to be needed in the future, and predictions of future uses, and use that information to devise a plan. He said these communities would grow as the City Engineers have indicated. He said all figures would be put into the final document. He 6 City Council water workshop August 31, 2002 said that the County would be willing to entertain what the cost of 4.5million gallons of water per day would be for the City. Commissioner Towne said that we would not want the City’s decision to rest on a Chip Factory, but they would be a large factor in water use, they would be a phase two entry into this project. He said he did not remember what the timeframe was. Supervisor Klein said that the commitment for the Chip Factory was projected for 15 years and they would be looking at 11 million gallons. Commissioner McTygue said that he understood that they wanted to go east into the Hudson and accommodate the water needs of the Stillwater area and Malta. He said that this indicates a need for a timely decision. He said they talked about the possibility of being part of the project and sent letters to towns after the meeting. He said that the towns said they would not be interested if the source was Saratoga Lake. Barbara Farone said she is now the Saratoga Lake Association President, and she will go back to ask SLIPID to nudge their supervisors and the Board to make a decision. Barbara Farone said she would push from the other end. She said that the Chip Company must have two committed sources of water in order to be able to build in the area. Commissioner McTygue said that the City made a financial commitment to the community and he wants to release the DEIS. Adjournment Seeing that the no council member wished to continue discussion, the workshop adjourned at 9:45AM. Respectfully Submitted, Nancy Wagner Secretary Council approved 9/17/02 7 City Council water workshop August 31, 2002 8