City Council

CITY OF SARATOGA SPRINGS CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP CITY COUNCIL ROOM THURSDAY, APRIL 3, 2003 11:00 A.M. PRESENT : Commissioner Thomas Curley, DPS Kenneth Klotz, Mayor Commissioner Michael Lenz, Finance Commissioner Thomas McTygue, DPW Commissioner Stephen E. Towne, Accounts ALSO PRESENT: Hank Kuczynski, Deputy Mayor Paul Male, City Engineer Geoff Bornemann, City Planner Bruce Levinsky, Developer Gordon Boyd, City Center Authority Tim Mabee, Downtown Special Assessment District Mark Baker, City Center Authority Bob Israel, Planning Board Tom Roohan, Roohan Realty Lou Schneider, Planning Board Linda Toohey, Chamber of Commerce Phil Diamond PARKING Mayor Kenneth Klotz said parking has been an ongoing issue in the City for many years and the City continues to look for solutions to a problem that continues to be exacerbated by the City=s own successes in the downtown area. Mayor Kenneth Klotz said it was his belief that a parking authority should be established. He said a permanent body that would focus on and address this issue on a continual basis seemed the way to go. He said that body could also develop fundraising methods as well as implementing the ideas and recommendations on this matter. Commissioner Michael Lenz said it was his belief that the Downtown SAD could take on this matter. He said there was already a long history with the SAD and the parking issue. He said there were many individuals in the SAD that were quite knowledgeable on the parking issue. He said the members of the SAD represent a large portion of individuals who have a vested interest in downtown parking. He said it was also his understanding that the SAD already had the legislative power to handle this matter. He said the SAD could certainly take on a larger role in the short term parking issue. He agreed that parking was reaching a critical state and some framework to address it needed to be developed. Mayor Kenneth Klotz agreed that the SAD was instrumental in the development of the Putnam Street parking deck, however, said that a parking authority with a sole purpose of focusing on parking could better handle this issue. He said the SAD and other organizations could be represented on this authority but he believed there should be a group with a sole purpose of overseeing this matter. He said he had looked at models of parking authority legislation from other communities and said that members of the authority could be recommended by each Council member. He said it could be written into the legislation that certain organizations are to be represented. He said there needs to be some consensus before moving on this matter. Commissioner Stephen Towne said he is not very familiar with a parking authority. He said he would rather be more knowledgeable on that matter before considering it as an option. He said he also wanted to be sure that the needs of the community are addressed and exactly what were the needs of the community. He asked if the City was trying to meet certain percentages of traffic patterns in developing additional parking or what specific criteria is being used. He said there needs to be both long and short term goals. He too agreed that all Page 1 of 5 City of Saratoga Springs City Council Workshop Meeting Thursday, April 3, 2003 of the vested groups need to be involved. He said there appeared to be agreement that there is a problem but it needed to be determined exactly what was the problem and to then find alternative ways to fix it. Commissioner Thomas Curley said parking and the lack of it has been a problem for quite some time now. He said there needs to be review of three specific areas: a) parking for customers of downtown businesses; b) parking for workers; and c) parking for the fringe uses of the downtown area (residential). He said this was going to be a multi-phased approach and perhaps in the short term issue was the needs of the downtown businesses. He said he believed that anything that is done in the short term to expand parking would only be a good thing. Mayor Kenneth Klotz said if a parking authority was a consideration, it would be a long term consideration. He said it takes some time to set up a parking authority. Commissioner Thomas McTygue said he thought this workshop was being held because there were differing opinions on how to handle this matter. He said he did not know enough about a parking authority or its benefits to make a decision this time. He said there have been discussions about building a structure over the Maple Avenue parking lot and perhaps that was a broader area for study. However, he said the Hub parkinglot which had been recently discussed at a Council meeting was a much narrower approach. He said we already know that it would not require ramps because of the slope of the land, thereby making it somewhat less expensive. He said we also know that we can move immediately on that project while the others will take more time and consideration. He said the Hub parking lot could be considered a short term solution. He said he also did not hear any objections to the Hub parking deck. He said the Hub deck will give the City another 100 parking spots. Mayor Kenneth Klotz agreed that there had not been any disagreement over the Hub deck, however, they need to have some specific dollar amounts. Commissioner Thomas McTygue said they would appear before the Planning Board and the Design Review Commission in the near future and then an RFP would be developed. He said the dollar amounts would then be known. He said it was his plan to start construction in September if everything went well. He said the Spring Street parking deck was a good learning experience and they had more problems at that site than they anticipate at the Hub site. He said this should now be at the stage of finding a way to fund this deck. He said he believed there would be a great deal of interest in this site and further noted that the retail operations at this site will off set some of the costs. Commissioner Thomas Curley said he would like to see some data on adding a third and perhaps fourth level to the Hub deck. He said parking demands will only continue to increase in the City and he did not want to see the City restricted in parking because we did not look at additional levels. Mayor Kenneth Klotz said that Mike Ingersoll stated that the cost per space goes up considerably when adding ramps. Paul Male said when adding additional decks, spaces are lost, ramps are necessary and elevators must be added. He said it was his belief that it then becomes economically unfeasible. Commissioner Thomas McTygue said he believed that the Maple Avenue parking lot was more conducive to additional decks. Commissioner Thomas Curley said that might be true, however, he said he would like to see all of the data on whether additional decks at the Hub location were or were not economically viable. Mayor Kenneth Klotz said the City Center Task Force looked at the possibility of constructing a sizeable deck on the Maple Avenue parking lot and that is what lead him in the direction of establishing a parking authority. He said for a project that large there needs to be some scope and scale before it is begun. He said we have struggled in the past on what exactly is needed and perhaps an organization that focuses only on parking is needed for a large scale project. Gordon Boyd said their discussions on a parking structure were adjunct to their discussions on the enlargement of the City Center. He noted, though, that in a previous Chamber study, it was stated that the City had a deficit of 600 parking spaces in the downtown area. He said they believed that the 600 parking space deficit could be solved with a parking structure on Maple Avenue. He also noted that they had discussed the possibility of the City selling some of if existing parking lots on Broadway to fund a new structure on Maple Avenue. He said the Council should consider establishing a parking authority. He said it would be Page 2 of 5 City of Saratoga Springs City Council Workshop Meeting Thursday, April 3, 2003 accountable to the City but would handle its own fiscal affairs, manage its assets and capital expenditures and not have to compete for City funds each budget season. He said they believe a parking structure on Maple Avenue could produce between 600 and 900 spaces. Commissioner Thomas McTygue said he was a bit concerned about establishing an authority and the layers of bureaucracy that come with it. He said he believed the existing City government could operate and maintain parking structures. He said, though, that it might be good for the City to set up a bipartisan group to look at the parking issue as a whole. He agreed the Maple Avenue lot is a large scale program but the Hub lot was a small scale project that could be done now. He said members of the SAD, City Center Authority, Council and all of the other vested organizations should be included in a small group to study the parking issue. He said though that in some cases it was time to stop talking and time to start working. He said this City is so successful because of its volunteers. He said we have not let ourselves get bogged down in the past by adding more layers of expenses and bureaucracy. He said the Spring Street parking deck was constructed because of individuals like John Roohan and Senator Joe Bruno and it was done so without more layers being added to the existing government. Commissioner Michael Lenz said perhaps an existing group could look at the Maple Avenue and Woodlawn Avenue parcels. He said, though, he was not opposed to establishing a new group with all of the vested individuals to review the overall parking issue. He agreed we need to move forward and to begin looking at funding. He reminded everyone though that the City has the Connolly plan, so funding could be limited. He said the establishment of an authority would give the City more leeway in financing. Commissioner Thomas McTygue said it was time to revisit the Connolly amendment. Commissioner Michael Lenz said it was time to begin to develop some cost estimates for these projects. He said he can=t begin determine how to fund without having some estimates. He also said that once the estimates were drawn, prioritization could take place. Commissioner Thomas McTygue said the SAD has done a lot of good for the City but perhaps it was time to bring in other talent to look at this matter. Mayor Kenneth Klotz said the initial ball park estimate for parking structures was $12,500 per space, however, when the Spring Street deck was constructed the cost was closer to $15,000. He said it was likely that the cost for a deck at this time would also be close to the $15,000 figure. He said there was a study done during the summer of 2001 which called for a parking structure with 750 spaces. Therefore, the cost for such a structure would likely be between $9 and $10 million. He also agreed that selling some of the existing Broadway parking lots would help in the funding. Commissioner Thomas McTygue suggested that as group be established to review parking and to explain to the public what we are looking at. He said the proposal as discussed by Gordon Boyd for a parking structure on Maple Avenue was not new. He said during the urban renewal phase it was further suggested that there be a walkway between the parking structure and Broadway. Gordon Boyd said they simply looked at selling the existing lots as a way to assist in the funding of the Maple Avenue lot. He said commercial use of the existing City lots could create considerable revenue for the City and school district. Commissioner Thomas Curley asked exactly where this structure might be placed on the Maple Avenue lot. Gordon Boyd said they sketched out a plan where it would be located directly in the middle, thereby allowing commercial use at both ends. Commissioner Michael Lenz said a financial package needed to be developed. Gordon Boyd said there needed to be some consideration given to whether there should be fees charged to park in the structures, operating expenses, should this be part of the City=s budget or separate, etc. Commissioner Michael Lenz said a group needed to be formed to look at these issues and to prioritize the projects. He said costs needed to be developed and then recommendations made to the Council. He said there seemed to be a consensus from Council members that a group needed to be formed. Commissioner Thomas McTygue urged that someone with a lot of financial background be added to the group. Page 3 of 5 City of Saratoga Springs City Council Workshop Meeting Thursday, April 3, 2003 Mayor Kenneth Klotz questioned that whether a structure at the northern end of the City would solve the parking problems at the southern end. He wondered whether this solution would be good for those businesses at the other end of the town. Commissioner Michael Lenz reminded everyone that the Spring Street parking lot falls under the NYS Office of Parks and Recreation and a deck cannot be added on that lot. Commissioner Thomas Curley agreed there was a certain point to which people would park their car and walk. Commissioner Thomas McTygue suggested that the existing Broadway parking lots be monitored for use and to determine if we are in fact getting the best use of those lots. He said with the addition of the Hub deck, the entire Woodlawn Avenue lot could be made two hour parking. Commissioner Michael Lenz asked about adding a deck to the Woodlawn Avenue lot. Paul Male said because there is no change of grade on that lot, an elevator would be required and there is also quite a bit of bedrock which would increase the cost. Tim Mabee said there are plans already available for the Woodlawn Avenue lot. He said the downtown businesses need downtown parking. Linda Toohey agreed the existing Broadway parking lots need to be monitored. She also agreed that both short and long term plans need to be developed. She said the Chamber had presented recommendations on changing some of the short term parking to long term parking. She said though the entire concept should be kept simple. She said perhaps the SAD should be charged with the immediate short term issues. She said they could look at the existing recommendations and prioritize those recommendations. Commissioner Michael Lenz agreed. He said the SAD also has the legislative authority to make some changes. He said it would be a good way to look at the short term issues. Tim Mabee said there is an existing proposal for the Woodlawn Avenue parking lot and that could be reviewed. He said he had some concerns with the net gain of parking spaces at the Hub lot if there is commercial use at that site. He questioned whether the parking spaces were more valuable than the commercial space. Commissioner Thomas McTygue said this issue had been looked at and his proposal for the commercial use was what the planner suggested. He said it was a way for incubator businesses to get a start. He said this plan had already been discussed with Charles Wait, ATC, and he was interested in looking at the City=s plans in connection with his plans for the banks parcel. Tim Mabee said with the addition of the commercial use and the loss of spaces for that use, there might be a net gain of only 50 spaces. Commissioner Thomas McTygue disagreed saying that it would be 100. Tim Mabee said he was concerned about spending $1 million for 50 spaces. Bruce Levinsky said he believed the City needed an authority to address this issue. He said the SAD has had within their authority since its inception the ability to address the parking matter and they have not done so with the exception of the Spring Street deck. He said that performance was meager in comparison to the whole problem. He said there needs to be a more comprehensive look and it needs to go at least ten years into the future. He said the aspect of trying to just bull projects through the City without looking at the whole picture for long term solutions was silly. He said he would prefer to see the parking authority established because the SAD has struggled for years with the concept of enlarging the SAD and it was likely that it would not expand. He said because they are geographically limited to only the downtown area they would be limited to solving this issue on more than a downtown perspective. He said the entire $9 or $10 million would not be necessary at this time to construct the deck, but rather could be borrowed. He also agreed that some land could be sold and perhaps some thought should be given to adding parking meters. He said he did not want to see the City prematurely use this existing land for limited use. He said he was not against the Hub deck but rather thought that just a deck would be too small. He said he would rather see three or four stories in parking and retail at that location. Mark Baker said that there needs to be a combination of voices heard. He said the retailers need to be heard. He said fringe parking vs. core parking, development, construction, funding, etc. all needs to be looked at and prioritized. He said there is a call to do something now though. He said this did not all happen just now and there was a lot of existing material that should be reviewed. He said many members of the SAD were involved in previous parking discussions and they bring a lot of knowledge to the table. He agreed in the short term it seemed logical to have the SAD review the parking issues and then perhaps at a later time move to an Page 4 of 5 City of Saratoga Springs City Council Workshop Meeting Thursday, April 3, 2003 authority. He said this problem would not be solved in one step. He said the SAD could be used to prioritize the recommendations and then it could go from there. Phil Diamond said they need to look at the long term solutions though and the authority seemed to be the way to go. He also suggested that the City look at allowing for diagonal parking along Broadway. Commissioner Thomas McTygue said that had been looked at several years ago but there was an issue with DOT on that proposal. Mayor Kenneth Klotz thanked everyone for attending this morning. He said this had been a good discussion with many useful ideas and suggestions. He thanked everyone for coming. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business, Mayor Kenneth Klotz adjourned the meeting at 12:05 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Kathy Moran Clerk Approved: Page 5 of 5