City Council

CITY OF SARATOGA SPRINGS CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP CITY COUNCIL ROOM MONDAY, MARCH 22, 2004 5:30 P.M. PRESENT: Commissioner Thomas Curley, DPS Michael Lenz, Mayor Commissioner Matthew McCabe, Finance Commissioner Thomas McTygue, DPW Commissioner Stephen E. Towne, Accounts ALSO PRESENT: Matthew Dorsey, City Attorney John & Jennifer Behan, Behan Associates Bob Spratt, Recreation Commission Jeff Olsen, Land Acquisition Committee CALL TO ORDER Mayor Michael Lenz called the workshop meeting to order at 5:30 p.m. Recreation Facility/Open Land Acquisition Mayor Michael Lenz said the workshop this evening would afford everyone the opportunity to discuss the recreation facility matter. He said there have been a lot of groups meeting on this issue with a lot of work done to date. He said at this point, though, it would be helpful for the Council and the groups to meet collectively to discuss this issue. He said all of the ideas, questions, concerns and concepts discussed and presented this evening would be helpful to the Council when they are finally making a decision on the recreation facility. He said that John & Jennifer Behan were here this evening to facilitate this discussion. He suggested that a list of the key selection criteria be developed. He said this should be an open discussion among all parties. John Behan said his firm had been hired by the City to assist in the land acquisition process. He suggested that the chairs of the groups that have been studying this issue bring the Council up to date on their selection process from both the recreation facility point of view and the open space point of view. Bob Spratt, Chair, Recreation Commission, said their commission submitted a report to the Council more than 18 months ago. He said since that time some of the properties have been taken off of the list. He said their commission set a 10 acre minimum. He said a parcel of that size would meet the City’s needs for 10 years in both indoor and outdoor facilities. He said they contacted realtors, placed notices in the newspaper and solicited information from interested land owners. He said they also did an aerial survey of the community. He said a list of properties meeting their criteria was developed and it was determined that there were no suitable parcels in the inner district to meet their needs. He said they looked at Weibel Avenue near the existing ice rinks and PBA lands and thought that perhaps there could be some land available there. He said they were interested in the one large campus concept. He said that through their process, they identified five parcels. He also informed Council members that the Commission was working on a needs assessment which would be presented to the Council soon. Bob Spratt also congratulated and thanked Council members on their purchase of the Gilbert Road parcel. Jeff Olsen, Land Acquisition Committee, commended Council members on their purchase of Gilbert Road. He said, though, that was just the beginning. He said this committee has met regularly since the bond referendum. He noted that their committee has a broader purpose than the recreation facility. He said they have a $5 million resource that they are trying to maximize. He said to that end, they hired a consultant to Page 1 of 4 City of Saratoga Springs City Council Recreation Workshop Meeting Minutes Monday, March 22, 2004 assist the committee in this process. He said one of their challenges is the local real estate market because the prices are so high. He said, though, that they have developed a short list of available parcels and they are also looking at others. He said the next phase of their process is to look for parcels that could be used for hiking trails or waterfront access. John Behan then asked the Council for their thoughts on items such as economics, location, neighborhoods, etc. Mayor Michael Lenz said they have been talking about this topic for quite some time. He said there are a number of choices that could be suitable for both open lands and the recreation facility. He said he liked the idea of the campus concept but he also liked the idea of a site that could be accessible in ways other rather than driving. He said there is a meeting scheduled with the school district to work on the scheduling of recreation in the school. He also said that there are other facilities that may become available in the Town of Wilton and the YMCA. He said the City needs to work proactively with those organizations. Commissioner Thomas McTygue said he had an opportunity to work with the site selection group from the Recreation Commission and it was he who brought for the idea of two smaller facilities rather than a campus. He said a smaller facility in the neighborhood could be accessible by walking. He also said that maintenance and manpower would be less expensive. He said one large facility would generate more traffic and infrastructure issues. He said the parcel on Gilbert Road was used a few years ago but there was a traffic problem. He said two smaller facilities on school or city owned land would be less expensive because of no purchase price and utilities would likely be available. Commissioner Thomas McTygue said some thought needed to be given on whether this City should allow children from outside of the City to participate in the recreation programs. He said that the Recreation Commission refuses to look at that issue. He said the City needs to work with the school district if we want the children are to benefit. He said for a large campus the costs for infrastructure, lighting, utilities, parking would be significant. He also noted that the City has other significant projects, such as the DPS facility, that needs to be looked at. Commissioner Stephen Towne said a recreation facility is high on his list of priorities. He said he was interested in properties that had a use beyond a passive use. He said there also is a demand for a needs assessment to determine how those needs can be met. He said he believed there would always be neighborhood parks, but they are not used the way they once were. He said children don’t ride their bikes or walk to recreational fields anymore. He said he liked the idea of a large campus. He said financing this project is a big issue though. He said finances will have a strong influence on this project. He also said that perhaps there should be some thought given to regionalization and working with surrounding communities. He said the City is a magnet for this area and we need to find a way to develop relationships with the surrounding communities. Commissioner Thomas Curley said he also had the DPS facility to think about. He said there should be a master plan on recreation and public safety. He said perhaps the recreation facility and the DPS facility could be brought together for more cost effective measures. He said the size of the problem will dictate the size of the solution and he was excited about this project. Commissioner Matthew McCabe said there are a lot of good ideas this evening. He agreed that both the utility and public safety issues needed to be reviewed in detail. He said he wanted to hear from the community on this matter and he looked forwarded to working with all interested parties. Jeff Olsen said there was a similar joint committee meeting awhile ago on this matter. He said there is a mix of needs and a mix of parcels including such issues as basketball courts, water front property, urban pocket parks, campus location, etc. He said this is now a dollars and acres issue as well as striking a balance. He said they need to balance the bond referendum with the indoor facility concept. Commissioner Thomas McTygue asked when the closing might happen on the Gilbert Road parcel. Matthew Dorsey said there are a number of contingencies, however, it could be by September. He said the cost of getting the fields ready for the children needed to be looked at. He asked if there was the possibility of using Page 2 of 4 City of Saratoga Springs City Council Recreation Workshop Meeting Minutes Monday, March 22, 2004 the land during the summer. Matthew Dorsey said if the Council so desired, the City could lease the land during the summer months. He said the City is purchasing approximately 75 acres. Mayor Michael Lenz asked if arrangements had been made for this upcoming summer season. Bob Spratt said yes. Jennifer Behan summarized by saying that the issues include: one facility vs. two, cost, amount of acres, inside or outside district, private land vs. city owned or school owned land. Bob Spratt said the Recreation Commission considered the costs when developing their proposal and they looked at a large enough parcel where it could be added to. He said they had thought that perhaps it would be too costly to build one large facility at this time. He said they were concerned, though with downsizing any facility and not getting what the City needs. He said ten acres would allow for expansion. John Behan said the campus concept did not necessarily mean that the entire facility would be located at one location. He said it could be spread around and phased. Teresa Capazolla, Gilbert Road, asked if it was a given that the Gilbert Road parcel would be used for recreation. Mayor Michael Lenz said that had been the intention. He said the Recreation Commission looked at the Gilbert Road parcel for outdoor field use but there is also the potential for an indoor facility at that location. He said it was likely that some land could also be set aside for a nature preserve and/or trails. Teresa Capazolla reminded Council members that when the parcel was previously used for recreation it was a traffic nightmare. Mayor Michael Lenz said when the City leased the parcel, we did not have as much control over some of the issues that we will have now through the purchase of the parcel. Commissioner Thomas McTygue said the City did not have access to Meadowbrook Road before but we now will. Teresa Capazolla said the overwhelming concern was with traffic. She said two smaller facilities could eliminate the cross town traffic. She also said that the parcels near the ice rinks would be a better location because of the existing infrastructure. She said she also believed that the Anderson parcel would be better served as passive use for hiking, horseback riding, bike trails, etc. John Irving, Bryan Street, suggested that the northside recreation field be used for an indoor facility. He said there would be adequate parking and it was near Skidmore College. He said the existing use of the parcel was very limited. He also said limiting the programs to children of the City only would make it difficult to sustain teams and leagues. David Keon said he liked the idea of two facilities. He noted that the basketball courts on the west side are used on a regular basis. He said an indoor facility would be a magnet and he also agreed that a facility on the north side made sense. He agreed that the cost could be reduced by using City owned property. Bob Spratt said there are many City owned parcels throughout the City. He said the five sites that the Recreation Commission considered were: 1) PBA fields; 2) Geyser Field, 3) parcels near the ice rinks; 4) McNeary parcel on Route 29 & 9N, and 5) Gilbert Road parcel. John Behan said there are also now the east, west, north and south side recreation fields thrown into the mixture. Margaret Roohan, 23 Cliffside Drive, said she was representing the Saratoga Independent School. She informed everyone that the Saratoga Independent School was recently deeded 60 acres. She said they currently have 40 students and would have a maximum of 100 in the future. She said they are interested in offering to the City, the availability of their playing fields and the use of the gymnasium (when constructed). She said their only criteria was that their building process not be held up and that the liability issues be worked out. She noted that they are also adjacent to the Bog Meadow Nature trails. She said they would also be interested in allowing cross country skiing. She also said they might be interested in working with the City on the DPS facility. Karen Belladino, graduate student from SUNY who is working with Geoff Bornemann, said they are in the process of putting together an inventory of vacant land in the community. She then displayed a map showing the vacant parcels. Page 3 of 4 City of Saratoga Springs City Council Recreation Workshop Meeting Minutes Monday, March 22, 2004 Mayor Michael Lenz said it would be appropriate for John & Jennifer Behan to compile and synthesize this information. He said it should then be distributed to interested parties for further discussion. He said issues such as the cost, criteria, location, etc., needed to be reviewed in the next steps. He also said the next step was to focus on the list of eligible sites and then perhaps hold another workshop. Commissioner Thomas McTygue said the Recreation Commission should also develop costs for the proposals that they are interested in. John Behan said it was possible that there was not just one answer. He said the process needs to continue by developing the list and then discussing the list. ADJOURNMENT Mayor Michael Lenz thanked all for attending and adjourned the workshop at 6:50 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Kathy Moran Clerk Approved: Page 4 of 4