City Council

CITY OF SARATOGA SPRINGS CITY COUNCIL PUBLIC HEARING CITY CENTER TUESDAY, DECEMBER 14, 2004 7:00 P.M. PRESENT: Commissioner Thomas Curley, DPS Michael Lenz, Mayor Commissioner Matthew McCabe, Finance Commissioner Thomas McTygue, DPW Commissioner Stephen Towne, Accounts STAFF PRESENT: Matthew Dorsey, City Attorney Debbie Harper, Deputy Commissioner, Accounts Alicia Wardell, Deputy Mayor Tony Izzo, Assistant City Attorney CALL TO ORDER Mayor Michael Lenz opened the public hearing at 7:00 p.m. He reviewed the rules of conduct specifically noting that speakers would be limited to two minutes. Tony Izzo, Assistant City Attorney, read the public hearing notice. He specifically noted that this public hearing is not part of the SEQR process. Mayor Michael Lenz said he hoped to have a decision on the water source matter by the end of the year. PUBLIC HEARING Paul Lilac, Town of Stillwater, said the Town Board passed a resolution some time ago and reaffirmed it again recently opposing the Saratoga Lake option. The City should go with the most cost effective plan. The County would not put the residents in jeopardy by drawing water from where PCBs are located. Several municipalities use the Hudson as a water source. He urged the Council to accept the County plan. Margie VanMeter, Saratoga Springs, said the City currently provides safe water. The City could use the existing filtration plant with the lake option. Budget concerns are a real issue. The City needs to control its own water and its own budget. Ken Petronis, Town of Stillwater Board, said they recently unanimously passed a resolution encouraging the City to not use the lake. The County will not draw water from where the PCBs are located. The City needs to think about what would happen if the lake was to become contaminated. Kay Sanford, 96 Riley Cove Road & SLA Board member, said he worked for 30 years at DEC as an aquatic biologist and has reviewed many environmental impact statements. Projects must be analyzed in its proposed form and not in the monster that it could become. Water needs will increase, protection will be forgotten and water levels will decrease. The FEIS is unacceptable because the draw downs were underestimated. The data is flawed. The analysis of the cost of the project is superficial, incomplete and misleading. Do not approve the FEIS and do not make an application to use it as a water source. Wilma Koss, City of Saratoga Springs, said the opponents of the lake have not been honest. The PCB issue is a good example. PCBs are as irrelevant as the chloroform. PCBs can be filtered out. Both the upper Hudson and the lake are class A water bodies. The real issue is the cost. Loughberry Lake is in good shape. The City has an adequate amount of water for now. The City will need to only purchase a minimal amount during the summer months. She did not want a $17 million project that the City really doesn’t need. Council members should remember the sales tax issue. Page 1 of 10 City of Saratoga Springs City Council Public Hearing Water Alternative Source Tuesday, December 14, 2004 Bill Blume, Town of Stillwater, said he was concerned with the draw down of the lake and property values. He urged the Council to use the upper Hudson. Lela Doyle, Town of Saratoga, said the FEIS is flawed. The options were compared in a manner to make the lake look better. The cost of watershed management was the real issue. Watershed management would be difficult and expensive for the lake option. The DEIS says the surrounding communities will pay those costs, but they have not been consulted nor have they agreed to those costs. The lake option will impact property values. Do not vote for the lake option. Mark Grayber, Town of Saratoga, said the FEIS is flawed. Barton & Loguidice was hired to prove that the lake was the best option. Barton & Loguidice made several assumptions such as recreation will not be impacted and water consumption will not change. The 1988 Sutherland report data showed that Loughberry Lake was on the decline, now the DEIS says that it is improving. Thilo Ullman, City of Saratoga Springs, said there is no alternative. The County is working on an idea but they don’t have anything definite. The County is full of good intentions, but what would happen with those good intentions if there were new members on that Board. He said the City should go with the lake option and then in 10 or 15 years, if the County plan is still around, then the City could sign on. The Council and the Supervisors need to hold the residents of the City safe. Peter Verardi, Town of Saratoga, President of the SLA, thanked the Council for the opportunity to speak. The County plan will benefit all. There are no guarantees that recreation will not be impacted. The DEIS is not complete. There is no watershed management plan. He encouraged the Council to vote no on the lake. Rose Orapallo, Saratoga Springs, said the Saratogian has been unfair by giving only one side of the issue. The editorial called this tonight’s meeting theatrics. The lake is in her backyard and the residents have a right to a public referendum. She believed Mayor Michael Lenz was sincere in giving the public one more opportunity to speak. The needs of few should not dictate the needs of many. There is another option and the Council should use it. Julie Annotto, Town of Stillwater, said if the City plans to use the lake then they must take responsibility for protecting the water. It is a large and uncontrollable watershed of more than 200 square miles with 11 towns, 1 village and 1 city. There are many contributaries. SLIPD has a watershed study which shows the vulnerabilities to the lake. It would be difficult to control fertilizer and manure on the east side of the lake. It’s a big undertaking to manage, enforce and protect the lake to ensure water quality. She urged the Council to not go with the lake. Al Ormsby, Saratoga Springs, said there are a lot of speakers from outside the City. There is only one viable plan and that is the lake. The County does not have a plan but only a concept. He asked what would the county plan do for him. From every standpoint the lake is a better option. Brenda Verardi, Town of Saratoga, urged the Council to vote no on the lake. There are too many unanswered questions. It will divide the communities. Many of the speakers from outside the City pay school taxes and they are interested in what happens in the City. She urged the Council to vote no. Joe Finn, Town of Saratoga, SLA member, said about 1/4 of the lake has milfoil. They are looking to use sonar for treatment. They currently used a mechanical harvester but it is not enough. If the lake becomes a water source, they won’t be able to use sonar. There are many unanswered questions in the DEIS. Doug Niles, Town of Saratoga, reminded everyone of the furniture house fire several years ago on the lake and the oil spill that occurred during that clean up. He said the spill went into the lake and directly by his house. Page 2 of 10 City of Saratoga Springs City Council Public Hearing Water Alternative Source Tuesday, December 14, 2004 Missy Shorey, Town of Saratoga, said this is a tough decision. The lake is a short-sighted solution. Queensbury uses the upper Hudson. We have the technology to be able to plan and develop a water source and she urged the City to go with the County plan. Will Connolly, City of Saratoga Springs, SLIPD member, said that property values are at risk. He said there had been a statement that the lake residents don’t have a dime invested in this project, he said that the City residents don’t either. This is a grade A lake and that happed because of the residents around the lake taking action to clean it. DPW has allowed raw sewage to go into the lake. There needs to be a watershed management plan included. He asked about restricting boating and ice fishing. The residents of the lake will litigate this matter. Brian McKim, Town of Wilton, said Queensbury uses the same location that the County proposes to use. Both DOH and DEC have said there are no PCBs in that area. The water from the Hudson will be safe. Donald Peters, Saratoga Springs, said studies show that the lake is the best option. The Council was elected to serve the people of the City and should discard party lines and vote for the lake. The county is a poor choice and is too costly. Gary Keller, Saratoga Springs, said politics should be set aside. The Council members need to listen to the taxpayers and tune out outside interests. He said Commissioner Thomas McTygue was elected showing that the majority wants to use the lake. The City needs to have an alternative water source and the City needs to apply for the permits. Jeanette Bruno, Town of Stillwater, said there is a heavy bias pushing the lake option. The true facts and costs need to be explored. The PCBs in the upper Hudson are below where the County is proposing to place an intake. The City needs only needs about 1.5 mgpd and to pay $1.95 per gallon for the County option is less than paying $17 million for the City option. The County option is the best option for a supplemental source. Jim Champlin, Town of Stillwater, said he opposed the city using the lake. Using the lake will impact many people. Residents of the other communities need to be heard from. Gerard Korenowski, Town of Stillwater, said he has three children in the City school district and they drink the water while at school. He said he was concerned with the misinformation on the PCBs. Recently there was a report that if you live by the Hudson it causes health problems. The proposed County intake will be upstream from the PCBs. He urged the Council to go with the County proposal. James Nelson, Town of Malta, Vice President SLA, said he was upset with the inconsistencies. First the City wanted a water source for 12 to 16 mgpd and now they only want 1.5 mgpd. The decision to go to the lake is callous, homes will be lost as will the use of the Waters Edge beach. There are weed problems at the lake. Sonar costs about $700,000 per year and the other pesticides are less. Will the City help pay those costs? Dave Bronner, City of Saratoga Springs, favored the upper Hudson saying the lake was too expensive. He asked what was the cost of the watershed management plan. There could be future restrictions on the lake. What would happen if the pollutant levels rose. Loughberry Lake is not for long term use. The best option is the County. He said just because Commissioner Thomas McTygue was re-elected did not mean that it was a mandate for the lake. Peter Tulin, Saratoga Springs, said he had devoted a great deal of time to the City in a number of capacities and he stood with Commissioner Thomas McTygue on this issue. Doug Ward, Saratoga Springs Counsel on the water matter, said that the law requires that before the City can consider the County option, the County must go through the same studies that the City has. The City has overturned every stone in their study including draw down, recreational use, watershed management and all of Page 3 of 10 City of Saratoga Springs City Council Public Hearing Water Alternative Source Tuesday, December 14, 2004 the issues have been addressed. There are PCBs in the sediment in the Hudson and once they are disturbed it will create health hazards. There are no studies by the county on the growth inducing impacts of a water line. He urged the Council to adopt the findings statement; and then if they wish to go with the County at a later date, they could. Margot Ammon, Saratoga Springs, said the City has been talking about this for years. We do not have enough information on the County plan. There is really only one option because the County does not have a plan. Cliff Ammon, Saratoga Springs, said he was confused and concerned. He had read the DEIS, gone to the meetings, listened to the engineers and it appeared that everything had been researched. The lake is the obvious choice. He hoped the Council would look out for the best interests of everyone. Joann Winchell, Saratoga Springs, said those City residents who live on the lake pay a lot of property tax and that should hold some weight. She said she opposed the lake option. Maureen Deane, Saratoga Springs, said she had been coming to the lake since she was a child. She relocated to the City 15 years ago. She urged the Council to reject the FEIS and protect the lake. The Council should have learned its lesson with the sales tax issue. Peter Looker, Saratoga Springs, said the City should try fair water rates, conserve water and the City should maintain control over its own water. Clifton Park uses fair water rates. There is no incentive for the big corporations of this City to conserve. Both developers and the big corporations are to blame. People should stop watering their sidewalks. The City needs to take some control and consume less. Brian McCarthy, Albany and Stillwater, opposed the lake option. The lake has some shallow areas and this will change the shoreline. There are some huge boulders in the lake. The intake valve will be at the deepest part of the lake. Boating will be restricted. Drinking from the upper Hudson will be safe. Bill McTygue, Director of DPW, said he had been intimately involved with this project for quite some time. There is information on PCBs in the upper Hudson. He FOILED information from ENCON and that information shows that there are PCBs in the upstream of where the County proposes to install its intake. Rich Straut, Barton & Loguidice, said there is a lot of misinformation. He said much of the discussion tonight is based on emotion. The reality is that there will be no significant impact to the lake. There will be no boating restrictions, there is a watershed protection plan. He said the draw down level is based on millions of gallons being taken from the lake. John McCarthy, Saratoga Springs, said the decision should be made by the residents of this City and not the County. Loughberry Lake needs to be relieved. Saratoga Lake is the obvious choice. The City should retain control and not relinquish that privilege. The County plan and is based on a lot of assumptions and there are PCBs in the Hudson. It is also a large assumption that the state would not allow the City to draw water from where there are PCBs. Mistakes happen all the time. The County will charge the City one rate for some time and then simply increase it. This whole event would not be necessary if this was not politicized. If we end up with the County plan, it will be irreversible. Commissioner Thomas McTygue said the City has invested more than $750,000 in this process to date. It is in the best interests of all to work together. He is not looking to hurt the lake. Property values generally go up in watershed areas. He is interested in working with the surrounding communities on a watershed management plan. The City should submit the application to DEC on this matter and then put the project on the shelf. PCBs are a serious issue. There are PCBs located 3,000 feet upstream of where the County wants to place its intake. Saratoga County did a study in 1990 to use the lake and they proposed to draw 30 mgpd. There is currently 260 mgpd flowing out the lake every day going through Fish Creek. Page 4 of 10 City of Saratoga Springs City Council Public Hearing Water Alternative Source Tuesday, December 14, 2004 Lee Nelson, Saratoga Springs, said the City needs to think about control. The citizens of this community want their governments to take control and the City should retain control of the water source. John Nelson, Saratoga Springs, said that the senior citizens need to be represented. If the Council goes with the lake plan, the filtration plant will not need to be duplicated. There are no reports of disease or poor health in relation to residents proximity to the lake unlike the Hudson. There will be little impact to the residents in draw down. The investment for seniors in the City plan will increase their rates by 46 percent, however, the Hudson River option will increase their rates by 189 percent. Phil Diamond, Saratoga Springs, said the lake is the best option. He reminded Council members that they were not elected by surrounding communities but by the citizens of the City. This is not a difficult decision. Do what is right for the City. Murray Penny, Saratoga Lake, said there are radioactive materials from Kesserling that could impact the lake. Reactors are closely monitored, however, accidents happen. Walter Supley, Malta, urged the Council to go with the County plan. It will cost less than the City’s plan. Ground water should also be researched. The FEIS evaluates the upper Hudson as if it would be the sole source for the City, thereby overstating the cost. With the County plan the City will purchase only what it needs. The FEIS is flawed. Nan Supley, Malta, said she owns a lot of property on the lake. There are other alternatives and the Council should consider them. Elsa Supley, Malta, urged the Council to vote no on the lake. Her taxes have paid to clean up the lake and now the City wants to take advantage of the clean lake. Pat Butler, Saratoga, said she wants to control her own destiny just as the City does. She lives on the lake in a small camp that heats with kerosene and has well water. The City is the bonus for her, not the lake. She enjoys downtown Saratoga Springs, but the lake is her reason for living her. The entire community needs to be considered when making this decision and not just the $750,000 spent to date. Joan Verdile, Troy, urged the Council to not go with the lake option. Terence Shanley, Troy, said the Council should consider the future and unity of the community. He said that if the City chooses the lake, these types of meetings will never go away. Future Councils will have these same type contentious meetings and they will wonder why this Council ever chose this option. Do not pit one community against the other. Do what is best for the entire county. David Lord, Wilton, said the watershed management plan is not included in the material and they could spend up to $1 million for that management. He asked how those numbers compared with the 1.5 mgpd that is necessary at the cost of $1.35 for the City’s option and $1.95 for the County option. The Council needs all of the facts. Queensbury draws from where the County plans to draw water. They have monitored their water and have found no PCBs since 1992 Lisa Lord, Wilton, said using the lake would impact everyone. The impact to the communities was not included in the DEIS. Watershed management had not been included. There have not been any discussions with surrounding communities. They should have been included during the SEQR process. They should be not expected to pay for watershed management without participating in the SEQR. As the lead agency, the City is required to find the best solution. Laurie Wellman, Saratoga Springs, said that cost was the primary issue. The proposed intake for the lake option is of concern to those living on the north side of the lake. What about noise in running a pump station Page 5 of 10 City of Saratoga Springs City Council Public Hearing Water Alternative Source Tuesday, December 14, 2004 near residential areas. The City is being isolationists by refusing to participate with neighbors. Say no to Saratoga Lake. Norman Schneider, Saratoga, said he is a civil engineer and lives on the lake. This issue won’t go away tonight. The residents are concerned about losing control of water. He hoped that common sense would prevail. Michael Phillips, Saratoga, said the technical issues have been addressed and the Council should be driven by the financial considerations. The Council should look to the Finance Department on that matter. This is the worse kind of policy and politics. Commissioner Thomas McTygue does a good job as DPW Commissioner but when he starts reaching across the lake it is another matter. Homes are generally the greatest investment for people. He urged the Council to not release the EIS. James Lambalot, Saratoga Springs, said he supported the City getting the permit to use the lake. He hoped that a regional solution would be found though. Typically regional solutions are better. There is a lack of trust though. There is a County dump in Northumberland and there is nothing in it. The City does not get its fair share of the OTB revenues or from the Racino. He said the City needed support for a truck bypass and it was not given. The City keeps getting the short end of the deal. The City needs the option of the lake and could then work with the County on their plan. Margaret Morahan Saratoga Springs, said just because people do not live in the City it should not be held against them. They still pay taxes to the school and Saratoga Lake protection. She said she resented the comments that they should not have input. She urged the Council to not use the lake. Lisa Morahan, Saratoga Springs, said the lake is important to her telling Council members that she learned how to swim in the lake. There is too much negative impact from this proposal. This will divide the communities. The people who live on the lake would like to work with the tourism industry to make the lake a number one destination. Tom Wood, Town of Saratoga, Supervisor, said he was appearing on behalf of the Town of Stillwater and the Town of Malta (Dave Meager) and they oppose using the lake. They have all adopted resolutions for the City to use another water source. The potential watershed could include up to 11 municipalities which will place financial demands on all of those communities. This will have a negative impact on recreation, property values and tourism. The County is proposing a regional solution which can meet the City’s needs. Bobbie Rapp, Saratoga Springs, said she has lived here her entire life and she is neither for or against this project. She is for Saratoga Springs. She said her concern was growth and the Council needs to consider capping growth for a while. Mike Perkins, Saratoga Springs, said he moved here because of what the City is. He said property values have doubled. It is crazy to make a decision that would negatively impact the City. It makes sense that the City would not want to negatively impact the lake. Litigation is an issue. The propaganda on the PCBs is just that, the water is safe. The Council should make the right choice and go with the County option. Chris Luhn, Saratoga Springs, said the County plan is just wishful thinking. He said if the County plan is serious though, the City should demand that the cost of water for City residents would never exceed the cost of what it might cost for using the lake. He said he was also concerned about a letter from Niagara Mohawk to Malcolm Pirnie about toxic issues. Bret Johnson, Saratoga Springs, said he supported the lake option. Don Lambert, Stillwater, said it appeared that there are more residents that are not in favor of the County option. There should be a public referendum on this matter. Page 6 of 10 City of Saratoga Springs City Council Public Hearing Water Alternative Source Tuesday, December 14, 2004 Neil Hannon, Saratoga Springs, said he was curious as to why the County had not stepped up and made their plans available. He said the County Plan calls for a 36-inch main with the City taking up most of the cost of the project. He said the cost of the line should be borne by all municipalities in a fair share scenario. He said the under fair share the County would pay $10 million, Town of Ballston $3.5 million, Town of Greenfield $2.975 million, Town of Malta, $5.2 million, Town of Moreau, $6.9 million, Town of Wilton $5 million, Town of Stillwater $3 million and the Town of Clifton Park $13 million. He said Council members will be voted out of office if they chose the County plan. Betty Blume, Stillwater, said the County does have a plan. The City should wait for the County plan and their SEQR. The upper Hudson is a better option. John Christensen, Saratoga Springs said he lives in Geyser Crest and he believes the upper Hudson is a better choice. He said he would outlive the City’s 30 year plan. He urged the Council to go with the Hudson option. Gordon Boyd, Saratoga Springs, said the not-for-profits would see a substantial increase in their water rates with the County plan and asked how they would fund those increases. Cheryl Keyrouse, Saratoga Springs, said this study has been going on for four years. The County plan will create sprawl and impact recreation and property values. There are many other lakes such as the Finger Lakes, Tupper Lake and Lake George that are used as water sources. There will be watershed management. She asked how the City could trust the County when the resident’s sewer bills continue to increase. Hilary McLellan, Saratoga Springs, said she has a masters in environmental science and has worked on EIS projects. She supports the plan to go to the lake. The County plan is too vague and untested. The County plan is a boondoggle designed for developers and goes against smart growth. It will not protect the City in the Country character. She encouraged the Council to choose the lake and to promote smart growth. Julie Francis, Saratoga Springs, said she has been a resident for 20 years and grew up on Fish Creek. She said if there was no other option, then the City should go to the lake but there is another option. The studies have shown that there are no PCBs in the upper Hudson and it would be less expensive for residents. She reminded everyone that the City opted out of the sales tax formula and businesses have boomed out at exit15. The City should join its neighbors on a comprehensive water plan and protect the lake. Chris Millis, Saratoga Springs, co-chair of Saratoga for Responsible Water Sources, supported the lake option. This has been a long four year process and it is too bad that it had come down to this one showdown tonight. This is partisan bickering. The Council members should appeal to their hometown pride and not compromise on this matter. He said they should do what is best for the residents and go with the lake. Debbie Artrip, Saratoga Springs, opposed the lake. The upper Hudson is a grade A body of water. She said there was a lot of misinformation and conflicting information. She said the EIS used the maximum requirements for the Hudson and the minimum requirements for the lake in their plan. She said they said there would be no recreational restrictions, however, there will be near the intake. Tom Kirkpatrick, Saratoga Springs, said it was in the best interest of the City to keep control of its own water. He said he did not object to the County wide plan but he did object to the City paying the lion’s share of the plan. Saratoga Springs has had its own water source for many years and it is logical to go to Saratoga Lake. The lake is not a reservoir and the recreational use would not be limited. He noted that other lakes are used as water sources still have recreational use. He said the City should maintain control of its water. Bill Battesh, Saratoga Springs, said the City could use the County system to supplement at $1.95 and over 30 years still pay less than the City plan. He urged the Council to go with the County plan. Paul Pennsebenne, 335 Jefferson Street, said he supported the City plan. The City has been talking about Page 7 of 10 City of Saratoga Springs City Council Public Hearing Water Alternative Source Tuesday, December 14, 2004 this for quite some time. There is a large amount of water that flows out of the lake every day through Fish Creek. The City’s plan will have only minimal impact. Water treatment Plant Operators from other communities are puzzled by the great concern over this matter. None of the Council members have contacted anyone at the water plant on this matter. Frank Rapp, Saratoga Springs said this is a political football. He said that it would be political suicide to vote against the lake. Michael Stauffacher, 23 Garside Road, said a water treatment plant on Saratoga Lake would cost about $6 million. Silt from the Kaydeross would be a problem. Zebra mussels will be a problem. He said there could be some zebra mussels with the upper Hudson, but he believed that the City should go with the Hudson option. Dave Sacco, Saratoga Springs, said the Council is here to serve the residents. The City has a good water source and one of the best filtration plants in the state. In 2006, dredging will begin in the Hudson and wondered how that might impact the water source. Michael Cirillo, Saratoga Lake, said both the City and the lake are destination spots. The industrial growth of the proposed Chip plant is a problem though. He noted that there is a boating refueling station near the proposed intake. He was concerned that the recreational use on the lake could be prohibited. If the City chooses the lake as a water source, there will always be opposition between the City and neighboring municipalities. He urged the Council to not be shortsighted and to not leave a legacy of controversy. Dan Stec, Town of Queensbury Supervisor, said he wanted to clear the record that the proposed location of the intake is across the river from where the Town of Queensbury draws water. Their intakes are upstream from the dredging. There is one parcel near the intake where Niagara Mohawk used PCBs, however, they continually test their water and sludge and have not found any PCBs in their water. Janet Kuczynski, Saratoga Springs, said this project has cost the City $750,000 so far. She said originally the cost was to be around $260,000 however, because of the delays the cost has increased. The County plan will increase growth. Everyone should read the environmental impact study. Robert Gulotty, Saratoga Springs, said several of the Council members ran during the last election on their opposition to the lake. The lakes are heavily used by many including kayaks and regattas. There has also been an increase in ice fishing. Rick Fenton, Saratoga Springs said the decision should be based on the greater good. He said the river seems to be the best solution, however, he needed more information on the regional implications. It is important to consider infrastructure when making this decision. The Council needs to think about the City is the Country character. Dan Tagliento, Saratoga Springs, said he works in the environmental field. The City should accept control of its own destiny. DPW should control the water source. He said there is 280 mgpd that flows down Fish Creek. He said if the City was to draw 10 mgpd it would decrease the lake by one inch. This is not a private lake. If the County plan is adopted, it will accelerate development. Debra Bratsus, Saratoga Lake, said she opposed the lake option. This is an emotional issue because they live on the lake. The lake was pristine in the 1950s, slowly deteriorated but now due to the lake residents taking care of it, it is on the rise. Bruce Goodak, Saratoga Springs, said the track record of the Town of Queensbury shows that they have a good source. If the County plan is chosen, there would be a new, modern filtration plant. Saratoga Lake has security issues. The cost of using the lake is underestimated. Page 8 of 10 City of Saratoga Springs City Council Public Hearing Water Alternative Source Tuesday, December 14, 2004 Tom Lollias, said the County has supported the Northumberland waste site and there is nothing in that landfill. He said there are many people misrepresenting the facts this evening. He said he was sad because he did not believe that the Council had the best interests of the City in their hearts. Liz Hume, Clifton Park, said she was here with her friends in opposition of the lake. The Hudson River was the better choice. Barbara Trypaluk, Saratoga Springs, said she supported the lake plan, but residents need to learn to conserve. The lake needs to be protected. Residents of the lake will benefit from a watershed management plan but asked who would pay for it. Martin Witwria, Saratoga, said he had lived on the lake since 1990. He said while the Council represents the City, they are part of an overall electoral system. He urged the Council to look at the regional approach. Dennis Pokrzywka, Town of Ballston, said he opposed the lake plan. He said he did not believe the recreational issues were all addressed in the EIS. The Hudson plan is more viable. Bonnie Design, Saratoga Springs, said she owns a camp on Garside Road. She supports the lake as a water source. Assessments have been raised, the surplus is gone and there are senior citizens who can no longer afford to live here. There are young children in this community and they should not be drinking PCBs. The City should not lose control of our water rates. Harold Bull, Saratoga Springs, said he was concerned with using the Hudson because the City will lose control. He is on a fixed income. His county sewer bill is 250 percent higher than his water bill. Jim Aguis, Saratoga Springs, said he is the former owner of Browns Beach. There are a number of issues to consider. He has lived on the lake for 48 years. Each year on the lake is different. Some years the lake is low, some not. Once DOH is involved in this project there is no predicting what will happen. He said they can close down a restaurant for minor issues. The City should not allow the government to take control of the City’s asset. Eileen Finneran, Saratoga Springs said she supported the lake. It is to everyone’s benefit to maintain the lake. She said it was her recollection that some of the Council members were elected based on stating that they would keep an open mind on this issue. The Council should keep control of our water. Pat Lynd, Saratoga Springs, said this is a beautiful place to live. She moved here from Guilderland. She supported the upper Hudson option. Linda Tokarchuk, Saratoga Springs, said the City is remembered for health, history and horses. The water from Queensbury tastes terrible. The Village of Lake George uses Lake George for their water source and there are no issues. Steve Gilman, Town of Saratoga, said the Hudson is a superfund site. He was concerned with the PCBs and what might happen with one hurricane coming through this area. There can be no guarantees that the water will be free of PCBs. Rob Davis, Saratoga Springs, said this is all about development and politics. Developers would love to see a water line run down from the upper Hudson. The Saratoga County Republican party is tied to the developers. The Council needs to put the taxpayers first. It is clear that the City proposal would cost less. He urged the Council to support the lake option. Daniel Hitchok, Saratoga Springs, said water meters should be installed and everyone should be encouraged to conserve water. The public deserves a referendum on this matter. Anna Plant, Lake Luzerne, said that the City has already spent $750,000 on the lake proposal. It will cost $17 Page 9 of 10 City of Saratoga Springs City Council Public Hearing Water Alternative Source Tuesday, December 14, 2004 million for the lake and $78 million for the upper Hudson. Both are class A water bodies with no restrictions. In order to use the upper Hudson there will need to be more studies. The City has the sixth lowest water rate in the state. The County sewer rate is 2 1/2 times higher. It is in the City’s best interest to use the lake. Donna Giffune, Saratoga Springs, said people come from all over to buy Saratoga Springs water. We should not drink Hudson River water. She was concerned about PCBs causing cancer. She asked the Council to commit to the residents including those on the lake. Property values should be maintained. Chris Hart, Saratoga Springs said that politics makes this choice tough. He said neither proposal is a good choice. He suggested looking at the Amsterdam proposal or the Colonie Lake aquifer be considered. He urged the Council to not adopt either choice. He said he did not believe the County was looking out for the best interests of the residents of the City. Gene Fedoronko, Stillwater, said there should be a referendum. He said if the lake was wholly within the Cityit would be appropriate for the residents to make this choice, but it is not. He said at the last meeting there were three developers supporting the lake option. Tim Morahan, Town of Saratoga, said he was concerned with the recreational use. He said over the years, recreational use would be impacted. He was also concerned with property values. He said the Council should consider something other than the lake. ADJOURNMENT There being no one else wishing to speak, Mayor Michael Lenz closed the public hearing at 10:35 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Kathy Moran Approved: Clerk Page 10 of 10