City Council

City of Saratoga Springs City Council Workshop Meeting Thursday, July 11, 2007 CITY OF SARATOGA SPRINGS CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP MEETING CITY COUNCIL ROOM WEDNESDAY, JULY 11, 2007 1:00 P.M. PRESENT: Valerie Keehn, Mayor Commissioner John Franck, Accounts Commissioner Ron Kim, DPS Commissioner Matthew McCabe, Finance Commissioner Thomas McTygue, DPW OTHERS PRESENT: Meg Heggener, Recreation Commission David Spingarn, Recreation Commission Brad Fisher, Friedman Fisher Associates Michael Szemansco, Synthesis Susan Davis, SD Atelier Don Davis, SD Atelier CITY STAFF: Eileen Finneran, Deputy Mayor Michele Boxley, Deputy Commissioner, Accounts Lynn Bachner, Deputy Commissioner Finance Linda Terricola, Recreation Department Director Paul Male, City Engineer Lew Benton, Admin. Of Parks, Recreation, Open Space ARCHITECTURAL/ENGINEERING/SITE PLANNING SERVICES FOR INDOOR RECREATION CENTER Sue Davis summarized with everyone, the modifications from the first proposal to the second proposal. She said the revised proposed is based on the June 27 meeting and provides for normal architectural and engineering services for a typical design/bid/build approach, including complete construction documents and normal construction administration services. She explained that they would now prepare complete construction drawings, specifications and bidding and construction administration for the design/bid/build proposal where previously they were only providing services through design development. They will now provide normal construction administration services and clerk of the work services. They may also provide other optional services such as attending Planning Board and Zoning Board Appeals meetings, wetlands determination/delineation, storm water pollution/prevention plan and special inspections. She said this would be a publicly bid project using the WICKS law for the four trades. Paul Male asked about off site improvements and whether they had been included in this proposal. He said that $450,000 had been included in this budget for off site improvements. Those improvements include a water line, a road to the site, drainage, storm sewer, curbs, sidewalks, etc. He said that Sonny Bonacio had agreed to install the temporary septic system. Sue Davis said they did not include the off site Weibel Avenue improvements in this proposal. Lynn Bachner clarified that everyone was working from scheme B. She said that this proposal assumes that scheme B is the scheme that has been agreed upon. She also noted some of the exclusions in this proposal on pages 2 and 4. Michael Szemansco said that scheme B seemed to be the preferred solution from the feasibility study. Sue Davis said there needed to be a starting point in order to move this project forward. They realized that scheme B had not been formally adopted. However, in order to gets this moving they needed to select a scheme to develop the cost estimates. She said, though, that there would be many modifications as this moves along. 1 of 4 City of Saratoga Springs City Council Workshop Meeting Thursday, July 11, 2007 Michael Szemansco said it could include the elimination of a basketball court. Linda Terricola said the Recreation Commission was adamant that there be four basketball courts. Sue Davis said the modifications could include moving the office space or multipurpose rooms, or modifying the restrooms. Paul Male said the committee should look at the table as shown in the CLA document. The project was initially phased with phase one at $3.8 million and phase two at $1 million for a total of $4.8 million. Sue Davis said this is not a high end, state of the art building. It is a moderately priced, well designed, well thought out building. They chose scheme B to move the project along. Bill McTygue said it was worth noting that there were zoning related issues with the project in that it did not meet the current zoning requirements. Mayor Valerie Keehn said the ZBA and the Planning Board have deferred lead agent to the City Council. Sue Davis said she was not aware that there were zoning issues and asked for a copy of the minutes and other documentation on that matter. She said she did not want to push through any project without the appropriate approvals. Mayor Valerie Keehn said the ZBA was aware of the limitations on this site. Commissioner Thomas McTygue suggested getting a letter from the ZBA stating that they were okay with this. Mayor Valerie Keehn said she would talk to the Planning Board and the ZBA on this matter and they would not dispute it. Commissioner Ron Kim said he did not believe that having lead agency status meant that the City Council could exempt the project from the requirements. Michael Englert said the Council could make the determination that certain requirements may not be applicable under certain circumstances. The site plan review process will be retained. Paul Male said as long as the zoning was T4 there would need to be variances, however, if the zoning was changed to Institutional/Educational, then there would be a lesser impact. Michael Englert said the Council would need to consider the rezoning issue. Sue Davis said they need to be aware whether variances are necessary or not. She was not interested in bypassing the Boards. Commissioner Matthew McCabe asked if a zoning change was necessary. Michael Englert said it was a possibility. Commissioner Matthew McCabe said if the zoning was not changed and variances were necessary, he did not want that process to slow down the entire project. Bill McTygue said the T zones are a problem for the ZBA because they are not setback issues but rather build up to issues. He was also concerned that changing the zoning would then encourage other development in this corridor. He said the Council needed to carefully consider whether it was appropriate to rezone the parcel. Michael Englert said the Council would work with the ZBA. David Spingarn asked if it might be simpler to look at other community’s recreation plans and simply use a modified version, i.e., Schenectady. Michael Szemansco said the Schenectady proposal was probably twice as much as the City is looking for with different construction, different material and different needs. Brad Fisher said they have the experience in recreation facility construction and it would be used for this project. Mayor Valerie Keehn said that while the variance issue needed to be addressed, the applicant cannot go to the ZBA without a project. Lynn Bachner asked about the hourly fee for time spent at meetings. Michael Szemansco said they could provide an estimate. He said he may be somewhere around $30,000. Paul Male said that in some cases, City staff can represent this project at the Boards. Paul Male then reviewed specific, detailed questions/concerns on the proposal. After much discussion, it was agreed that Paul Male would meet with the firms to review the details on what is or is not included and the costs and report back to the Council at the next meeting on this matter. Paul Male asked about the storm water prevention and whether it was excluded. Michael Szemansco said the erosion and settlement control plans had been included and they could do prevention. Paul Male said that requires additional inspections and perhaps the City could do those inspections. David Spingarn asked about inspections and monitoring the project and how much they cost. Brad Fisher explained that the inspections would be necessary at appropriate intervals. The inspections may require specific inspectors such as electrical, civil or architectural, therefore, the rates would vary. He said there are also regular general construction inspections. 2 of 4 City of Saratoga Springs City Council Workshop Meeting Thursday, July 11, 2007 Paul Male said this site is high and dry. Bill McTygue said there is a steep embankment which he hoped would be softened somewhat. Michael Szemansco said they would need to discuss that with the geotechnical engineer. Paul Male asked if the dollar amounts could be added to each item. He said it would then be easier to determine what the credits might be. Paul Male said that if so directed by the Council to be the clerk of the works, they would do so, however, it might be more appropriate to hire a full time individual. Paul Male then asked about reimbursable expenses. There was some discussion that generally a large portion of reimbursable expense is copying material. Sue Davis said if it could be provided on a disk, it would save a lot of money. Commissioner Matthew McCabe asked if the Council had formally determined that a design build project could not be done. He said that question needs to be answered. He said that revenues need to be generated and expenses need to be reduced for this project. There was then some discussion on the design/build, design/bid/build and rfps. Michael Szemansco said the City could write an rfp for this project if it wanted to, but with the design/bid/build the details would be in the bid which would bring in a exactly what the City requested. Bill McTygue said an rfp could do the same thing if written correctly. Michael Englert said there are no 100 percent correct answers on whether the City could be exempt from bidding the project. He said the Court of Appeals brings that into question. He said though, that as he interprets the law, the City needs to go through the competitive bidding process. Michele Boxley said that is a Council decision. Michael Englert said there was some confusion on competitive bidding, however, he believed that under the City’s policies and procedures, competitive bidding and the WICKS law must be followed. Bill McTygue said that other communities have done construction projects with design build as has the City. Michael Englert said that to his knowledge there are no other municipal communities using design build. Brad Fisher said there is a lease buy back program but not done with capital money. Michael Englert said the lease buy back option is somewhat trickier for the City. Bill McTygue said the City has built two parking decks and ice rinks with the design build. Sue Davis asked Bill McTygue what the advantages of design build might be. Bill McTygue said it was one stop shopping that reduced costs. He said there are firms out there willing to work with the City on design build. He said the City needs to squeeze as much as we can out of this project. Brad Fisher said other municipalities have used the lease option. Don Davis said the design/build option may be quicker but he was not sure that it was more cost effective. The City needed some assurance that the project would be constructed according to detailed specifications and that could only be done through competitive bidding. He also said an architect added another layer of assurance that the project is built to specifications. Sue Davis said with the design/build concept there would likely be no initiatives on energy savings products or services, use of recyclable material, etc. Bill McTygue said that could all be written into the rfp. Bill McTygue said when using the design/build concept the City can communicate directly with the builder throughout the process which eliminates lost time and avoids conflicts/disputes. Michael Szemansco said the original submission was developed by using the rfp process, however, after the last meeting it appeared as though the direction had changed, therefore, another proposal had been submitted. Bill McTygue said an rfp could be written by the City based on the details in the CLA proposal and that allowed for a tremendous cost savings. Michael Szemansco said if the City wanted to follow through with an rfp process, then the City could accept their first proposal. That proposal would lead to the rfp process. Michele Boxley said the committee needs to make a recommendation to the Council and it is the Council that will make the final decision on design/build vs. design/bid/build. Michael Englert said it appeared as though the competitive bid process would be used. Commissioner Matthew McCabe said this has been a productive conversation, however, it was probably appropriate for Paul Male to meet with the bidders to review the material and tweak the savings and expenses. 3 of 4 City of Saratoga Springs City Council Workshop Meeting Thursday, July 11, 2007 Sue Davis said that if there was some apprehension in using their firm she would rather hear it now. She said they have been working on this concept since 2002 up through this latest submission. She said they didn’t want to simply spin their wheels. Commissioner Matthew McCabe said this is a $6.5 million project no matter how you looked at it and it needed to be scaled back as much as possible. Priorities need to be set. He said he was comfortable with the rfp process. Michael Szemansco said with the design/bid/build process they can develop more concrete costs estimates for this project. He said they would work on the numbers and include the site plan work and take out the inspection fees. Mayor Valerie Keehn thanked everyone for their participation and adjourned the meeting at 2:45 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Kathy Moran Clerk Approved: 4 of 4