Planning Board

PLANNING BOARD MINUTES (DRAFT) WEDNESDAY , JANUARY 14, 2009 7:00 P.M. CITY COUNCIL ROOM PRESENT: Clifford Van Wagner; Chair, Jamin Totino; Vice Chair, Amy Durland, Laura Rappaport, Philip Klein, Dan Gaba ABSENT: Michael Perkins STAFF: Jaclyn Hakes, Principal Planner ALSO PRESENT: Mark Schachner, Counsel; Stu Messinger, consulting engineer CALL TO ORDER Clifford Van Wagner called the meeting to order at 7:05 P.M. SALUTE TO THE FLAG ANNOUNCEMENT OF RECORDING OF PROCEEDING Clifford Van Wagner said the proceedings of this meeting are being taped for the benefit of the secretary. Because the minutes are not a verbatim record of the proceedings, the minutes are not a word-for-word transcript of the recording. REPORT ON ADMINISTRATIVE ACTIONS BY THE CHAIR There were no administrative actions reported. ANNOUNCEMENT OF POSTPONED/CANELLED ITEMS 08.069 S&D Realty Management Zoning Amendment, 126 West Avenue, adjourned to a future meeting at the request of the applicant. 08.015 Railroad Run PUD Zoning Amendment and Comprehensive Plan Map Amendment Advisory Opinion to the City Council, 27 Aletta Street and 25 New Street, adjourned to February 11, the applicant would like to submit additional information; therefore, this must be re-noticed. COMMENTS FROM THE CHAIR Clifford Van Wagner welcomed the new Board member, Dan Gaba. Clifford Van Wagner stated that, in spite of comments by the former Zoning Board of Appeals Chair, Dan is qualified to sit on this Board, he is a native Saratogian, he has extensive land use experience from his profession, and he knows how to read a site plan. Clifford Van Wagner said the schedule for 2009 is available on the web. He said there is a notice from the Commissioner of Public Safety that the main entrance of City Hall will be closed at 10:00 P.M. Monday through Friday, there will no longer be a maintenance employee after hours to close and lock the building, so the doors and restrooms will be locked at 10:00. Jaclyn Hakes added that the side entrance near the Police Department will be available. PRIVILEGE OF THE FLOOR Clifford Van Wagner gave this opportunity to allow citizens to address planning issues not on the scheduled agenda. No one spoke. APPLICATIONS  09.001 Wagner Subdivision, Joshua Road This is an application for a 6-lot subdivision in an Urban Residential-2 District. BACKGROUND: Jaclyn Hakes gave the background for this application. She said this is Phase 3 of the Park Grove Subdivision. She said the applicant is meeting all zoning requirements, all of the infrastructure is already in place as a result of Phase 1 of the Park Grove Subdivision. She said the only action the Board can take tonight to initiate coordinated review for SEQR, this is a Type I action, and the Department of Health is also an involved agency, but the Board can continue to discuss the subdivision. She said Part 617, which are the general SEQR regulations, allows for other agencies to develop their own SEQR regulations. She said the Department of Health did do that in 2002, which state that any realty subdivision, under DOH guidelines, requires the subdivision to be reviewed by DOH as well, which kicks it into a Type I action. Appearing before the Board were Joe Pultorak and Jason Dell, with Lansing Engineering, representing Joan Wagner. Mr. Pultorak said this phase of the project consists of 6 single- family home lots, located on east side of Joshua Road in a UR-2 District, and it meets all minimum requirements of that zoning district. He said the lot sizes will be approximately 8,750 square feet. He said all utilities installed in Phase 1 will be utilized by this project. He said also Included will be street lighting, street landscaping and sidewalks, all in accordance with the city’s regulations and the surrounding areas. He said the applicant has received City Engineer comments, are they are addressing them, and they have verified the 911 addresses with the Department of Public Works. Cliff Van Wagner asked Joe Pultarek to go over Phases 1 and 2. Joe said Phase 1 was approved in 2000, which is on the west side of Joshua Road, 3 or 4 lots that have not been developed yet. He said Phase 2 has been approved and will go forward after Phase 3, which will extend to East Broadway, City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – January 14, 2009 - Page 2 of 13 Amy Durland asked if Phase 3 was part of an original concept plan that was presented to the Board in 2000, Joe Pultarek said he will have to verify that, but he thinks originally 3 lots were included, and now there will be 6 lots. Jaclyn Hakes said that Joan Wagner didn’t have ownership of all the areas at the time of Phases 1 and 2. Amy asked if the lots are smaller in this phase, Joe said he would have to verify that, but he believes they are consistent with the carriage lots in the front. Phil Klein asked if any thought has been given to having shared driveways due to the narrow lots, and cutting back the number of curb cuts. Joe said that is something the applicant may consider, he will bring it to her attention. Clifford Van Wagner said in future meetings, it would be helpful for the owner will be here to answer questions. Amy Durland introduced the possibility of additional procedures to be undertaken in order to fulfill the new SEQR regulations regarding the Planning Board’s obligations to take a hard look at potential impacts on endangered species. She said that may or may not apply in this situation. Joe said that, as a part of the full EAF, they have sent a request to DEC to verify that. Amy said the outcome of the legal case was that typically the evaluation of a project’s potential to impact endangered species starts and often ends with a consultation to DEC, they maintain a National Heritage data base, and if the report comes back with no hits, that is the end of the analysis., not ____________ But a decision by the New York Appellate Division in the 3rd department. She said there was a legal case that determined that the Planning Board did not discharge it’s obligations to take a hard look at the endangered species impacts when it relied on those reports. She said that this may alter the requirements of the Planning Board for how to analyze the presence or absence of protected species. PUBLIC HEARING: Hearing none. DECISION: Motion by Jamin Totino to initiate coordinated review and seek lead agency status by the Planning Board, seconded by Laura Rappaport. Vote: Jamin Totino, in favor; Amy Durland, in favor; Laura Rappaport, in favor; Philip Klein, in favor; Dan Gaba, in favor; Clifford Van Wagner, in favor. Motion carries 6-0, one absent. 08.063 McKenzie’s Way Subdivision, Cleveland Avenue This is a sketch review of a 4 to 8-lot subdivision in an Urban Residential-2 District. BACKGROUND: Clifford Van Wagner gave the background. He said this is the second sketch plan discussion for a 4 to 8 lot subdivision in a UR-2 District. He said at the last sketch plan discussion, it was noted that the parcel was land-locked and as it is currently proposed it is a dead end. He said City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – January 14, 2009 - Page 3 of 13 the adjacent property owner had indicated that he could discuss with staff and potentially the applicant the potential for continuing the road through to East Broadway. He said there was discussion about the right angle, and the Department of Public Safety and the Department of Public Works were involved in that. He said the Board talked about road width. He said there were 3 different scenarios of how many lots there would be. Appearing before the Board was Clark Wilkinson, Paragon Civil Engineering, representing Saratoga Enterprises/Bob Howard. He said this is about a 1.7 acre parcel, the property abuts a property on East Broadway, which is owned by Steve Ethier. He said the 2 concepts that were resubmitted after the November meeting showed the 90-degree angle road and also a radius. He said he spoke to city personnel regarding right-of-way widths, layouts and things of that nature. He said he presented the initial 3 concepts and the 2 new concepts for this meeting, these 2 concepts show a 40-foot right of way, which is a reduced right of way. He said for planning purposes, the best way to develop this area is to have a through street connecting to East Broadway, but this would go through Mr. Ethier’s property. Clark said that Mr. Ethier indicated that he agreed that the road could come through, but they are looking at the reduced right-of-way width and reduced pavement width, as recommended by the City Engineer and the Traffic Department. He said the only use for this road is for people living in the neighborhood, which would be a total of 13 or 14 lots. He said this application is strictly for this parcel as of right now, which would include the extension of a “T” at the north end, both in the 90-degree concept and the radius concept. Clark said Paul Male said he only likes the 90-degree bend if there is a continuation of the road to the east to abut the trailer park, which also abuts Jefferson Street. Clark said the applicant is not opposed to that; however, their opinion is that it is probably better not to introduce that in the future, but to keep the loop. He said Cleveland Avenue is a dead end and when it is plowed and maintained, the trucks have to back out all the way, because there is no place to turn around. He said a connection would significantly help that situation, as well as for emergency vehicles. Clark said his opinion is that introducing a further connection or possible connection in the future isn’t necessarily going to resolve anything because it is Jefferson Street, which is a main street, and also nobody knows if the trailer park will ever disappear, which seems to be doing very well. He said the applicant feels that the radius plan with the reduced right-of-way is their preference, and they would like clear direction from the Board regarding whether it is willing to grant the reduced a right-of-way and reduced pavement to 20 feet. He said they have discussed with Traffic Safety that the street will be posted as no parking, if approved. Amy Durland said previous sketches had 4-7 lots, these sketches have 8-9 lots. She asked for the rationale in expanding the number of lots and how they got moved in. Clark said the original plan with the cul-de-sac had an 8-lot count as well; however, nobody liked that plan. He said the area is there for it, it is just a matter of how the road lays out. He said the radius is 50 feet shy of the minimum required in the city, so they are also asking for a reduction in that as well, because 150 feet would cut off a corner, causing an area to be unusable. He said in that case, he would suggest a spur or an eyebrow to enable that area to be used in the back. He said there may be 1 lot increase from the proposal with the 55-foot right-of-way previously shown, so as to not cut off the corner, which is where the additional lot was picked up; however, the rest is a little different, but pretty much the same. Clifford Van Wagner said the Department of Public Safety has had concerns with the right angle all along, they want a curb. Clifford Van Wagner said the right angle street with the potential stub into the trailer park should be discussed. He said in that case, one lot would possibly be lost. Clark said that is possible, City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – January 14, 2009 - Page 4 of 13 the squared concept shows 9 lots which included 1 shared driveway, which was shot down by Public Safety. He said if the road is extended, it will now have frontage, so they may or may not have enough area for 9 lots. Jaclyn Hakes said they would probably lose 1 lot, there is a 60- foot minimum lot width within this district. Clark said if the road is stubbed, the 60 feet could fit in another direction, but his gut feeling is it will probably be 8, 9 would be very tight. Clifford Van Wagner asked the Board if anyone would see any charm to a stub that goes through Lot 5. He said if the trailer park is dissolved 5 years from now, and this project is built in 3 years and there is a house there, then there is no opportunity to do a cross-connect. Amy Durland stated that the regulations would generallybe to try to provide for a connection. Clark said that is correct, but this parcel is all fronting on Jefferson Street. Laura Rappaport asked if anyone has spoken to the owner of trailer park. Clifford Van Wagner and Clark Wilkinson agreed this is an opportunity to do some planning. Clark said with a 55-foot right-of-way, he would argue against trying to make a connection. He said if the Board is willing to go to 40 feet, then as a benefit, he could make that connection. Jaclyn Hakes said there is an Article in the subdivision regulations for a general waiver that allows for a reduction in the right-of-way, as long as it doesn’t harm the public health, safety and welfare, and it is case specific, and there are special conditions. She said there was a recent subdivision in that general vicinity where the Board did reduce the right-of-way width to 36 feet and the pavement width to 20 feet. Clark said they are proposing 40 feet and 20 feet, with no on-street parking, with sidewalks on one side where the most lots are. Jamin said there was discussion of making it a one-way for snow removal, which thins the road out. Clark said he hasn’t given this any thought, but it works on other streets in the city, like Gridley, which is one-way for part of the day. Laura Rappaport said that assumes it is a through street. Clark said it will be eventually, because his impression from this Board in November is that if any future development occurs, and the City Engineer is indicating that Mr. Ethier needs to agree that the road will connect eventually. He said even if the road is one-way, emergency vehicles will travel in the wrong direction if that is what is best, and he said snow makes cars move more slowly, so he wouldn’t be opposed either way, but his preference is to keep it 2-ways. Clifford Van Wagner said it could be changed at a later date, if it proves to be problematic. Laura Rappaport said it can’t be 1-way until it connects to something. Clark said there is no formal agreement with Mr. Ethier, but he and the applicant are talking. Amy Durland asked Clark for his rationale regarding the no on-street parking, she said that is cleaner and gives more room to build, but it may not be consistent with an urban approach to a neighborhood. Clark said with a reduced street if somebody parks on it, a car is typically around 8 feet in width, so you would have 12 feet of passing area, with smaller cars you can fit 3 cars past on a 20 foot road, but perhaps not with larger SUVs. He said that with the types of houses that are warranted in this area, backing up to a trailer park, he guesses these houses will probably be in the range of $200-300,000. Dan Gaba asked if the right-of-way can be reduced without reducing the pavement. Jaclyn Hakes said you would need to provide enough space for the curb, sidewalk and plantings. Clark said there is not enough room. Clifford Van Wagner said if this is connected to East Broadway at some point in time, there should be sidewalks on both sides of the street, because it then becomes very walkable. Clark said that would be in exchange for reduced pavement, typically if there is wider pavement, there is room for people to walk on the pavement. Clifford Van Wagner asked if the proposal is for cubs on both sides of the street, Clark said yes. City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – January 14, 2009 - Page 5 of 13 Jaclyn Hakes said with regard to the 40-foot right-of-way that is being proposed and the 20 feet of pavement, that would allow for a 5-foot planting strip and a 5-foot sidewalk and 10 feet of traveling. Jamin Totino said a stub street to Cleveland makes a cleaner subdivision, and leaves more options down the road, and it starts to create more of a grid pattern that the city is looking for. PUBLIC HEARING: Steve Ethier, owner of the property to the north, said he has talked to Bob Howard about the road coming through, as well as to Paul Male and Skip, and he is impressed with the progressive reduced right-of-way, because that section seems a little rural. He said when you compare the radius to the street going through, right now it is a quiet neighborhood with a lot of kids, and the only people using Doten Avenue and Cleveland are the residents and people cutting through and racing to the Racino really quickly. He said if the trailer park is opened up someday, that would bring Jefferson Street traffic into this neighborhood. He said he had that area re-zoned from UR-7, which was a higher density, to UR-2. Clifford Van Wagner asked Steve if this project is approved and the street is built, if he would he proceed with a through street on his property to East Broadway, or if he would still do it at his own pace. Steve said if the right-of-way is going to be reduced, it will work out if he gets another lot or two to make up for the fact that he has to pay for the road coming through. He said he can work with the city to do it together. He can do 4 to 5-lot subdivision off of East Broadway with a loop, but with the 40-foot reduced right of way, he could yield 5 to 6 lots to pay for the additional 175 feet of infrastructure. He said Paul Male is trying to encourage less impermeable areas, so this would be a good opportunity to make it work for everybody. Clifford Van Wagner asked how he could get 5 lots. Steve said he could do 4 off of East Broadway, with a half-moon off of Taylor without a connection, and 6 with a connection. Mark Schachner arrived at 7:45. Steve Ethier presented maps to the Board for his property. He said this is one of the last places you can do new construction that would be affordable to anyone with a job, so the reduced right- of-way would help the city and brings in a lower price point, and the city has no other new construction under $300,000 for a single-family home, so it is the right opportunity in the right area. Clifford Van Wagner said this is sketch plan #2, the last one, which shows curbs and sidewalks on both sides, a 40- foot right-of-way, 20 feet of pavement, a paved stub into the trailer park eliminating Lot #5, and 8 lots only. Clark said would like approval for 9 lots if he can do it, he doesn’t want to prohibit that if everything still meets zoning, even though they are getting the reduced right-of-way, they are providing the benefit of having a possible through connection in the future, so if there is a way to manipulate the road to get 9, he doesn’t want to preclude that for the benefit of his client. Philip Klein said if possible, the driveways should be 30+ feet long to accommodate 2 cars and not have them overhang the sidewalk. Clark said he agrees. Laura Rappaport asked whether they could consider shared driveways. Clark said can look at that. Clifford Van Wagner asked if this would preclude having front load garages. Clark said no because the setbacks are 8 feet minimum and 20 feet total, so with an 8-foot minimum you could put garage to garage and have them close enough to have one driveway to serve 2 front loads. Cliff said he likes the 8-lot subdivision, Jamin said he also likes 8 lots. Cliff asked if the next application can include plans with detached garages in the rear. Clark said he doesn’t want to be cut off at 8, if he can make 9 work. Amy Durland said this is his risk to take. Jamin Totino said he is not outright opposed to 9, but he doesn’t know if it makes sense. Clark said he City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – January 14, 2009 - Page 6 of 13 doesn’t know if he can fit 9 and meet all the requirements, his first goal is to not require any variances. The Board gave the applicant direction: curbs and sidewalks in both sides, 40-foot right-of- way, 20 feet of pavement, 5-foot sidewalks, a paved stub into the trailer park, 2 layouts with 8 or 9 lots. Cliff asked Mr. Wilkinson to keep in mind that the other application that was approved was only for 7 lots. Amy Durland asked Cliff if he would object at some future point to extending to one more meeting if the applicant wanted another sketch discussion. Clark said that may not be helpful, because he has to conform to what the Board eventually says, and if he can show a plan that meets all the zoning regulations, and the 40-foot right of way is granted, he will discuss these things with his client, but he doesn’t want to preclude 9 lots. He said they are backing up to the trailer park, so it is kind of a transition zone, the smaller lots will help keep the home costs down, and they are being asked to build the additional 100 feet. Clifford Van Wagner asked the applicant to return when he is ready with additional plans, reminding him that it is at his own risk. Amy Durland said the application states that there is 25% minimum open space as a requirement, Clark said that should say permeable, so it will be corrected. Amy said the applicant states the proposed building height is 60 feet maximum, Clark said this is what the code allows, but is not their intent. Clark asked the Board if they are interested in seeing a style of home. Cliff said this would be very helpful. Philip Klein said he is concerned with road width, so he asked if the Board would like to consider 4-foot sidewalks. Cliff said this will be run past Paul Male and the Department of Public Safety. Clark said this is a good idea, but they need to consider handicapped accessibility and turning radiuses. Jamin Totino said Paul Male requested consideration of rain gardens, Clark said that may not help in this area, which is highly permeable sand. He said this area has over 12 feet to ground water. He said they will do pretreatment as required by the DEC. Laura Rappaport said detached garages in back with longer driveways would require more pavement. ◊ 05.057 Beaver Pond Village, 98 Geyser Road This is a public hearing for an 85-lot subdivision in an Urban Residential-1 District and a Rural Residential-1 District. Clifford Van Wagner said that the applicant is going to concentrate his presentation tonight on the RR-1 District and talk about the conservation and entertain the Board’s questions, at a subsequent meeting a similar presentation will be given on the UR-1 portion of this project, which will be described in the same detail. Appearing before the Board was Dan Ruzow, attorney for Saratoga East Avenue Associates, the applicants, and Beaver Pond Village Subdivision. Also present are Chad Cooke, from Boswell Engineering, and Dean Long, from the LA Group. Dan Ruzow said they will be presenting overheads depicting the development of the RR-1/Parcel 2 lots. City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – January 14, 2009 - Page 7 of 13 Dean Long, LA group, talked about the history of the project. He said this being in an RR-1 zone requires it to be treated as a conservation subdivision. He said in December of 2003, there was a conservation analysis of the site, prior to the wetland delineation being completed and prior to the archeology studies being completed. That was followed up in 2005 by a presentation of a plan sheet, Sheet #3, of the project site, which shows the lands determined to be of conservation importance and that were worthy of natural resource protection. He said Parcel 2 contains about 85 acres of combinations of uplands and wetlands. He said the project sits adjacent to and around other prior development. He said Geyser Crest becomes the backbone or the next logical take-off point to develop this property, the development sides are backed up against each other, which allows the preservation of the large continuous open space. He said the unconstrained lands are 49 acres, it is a 2-acre zone, 24 or 25 lots are allowed, which is where the base density got created. He said there are 32 acres of natural uplands that are undeveloped and 54 acres of wetlands on Parcel 2. He said they are proposing to back-up this project onto already developed areas, while providing meaningful open space and protection of lands of conservation value, plus providing facilities for pedestrian and bicycle circulation. He said they are proposing providing sidewalks on both sides of the streets throughout the entire subdivision, except for a section of road where there are no adjacent houses. He said there are many options for siting, configuration and size and arrangements of elements of the landscape. Dan Ruzow said that Parcel 2 borders state park lands and the Casino Drive lands. He said in order to achieve the rural conservation subdivision objectives, which is to affect as much open space as you can, clustering the area of the site closest to other developed area sites makes the most sense because it provides the largest band of open space, which is more than ¾ of the site, and more than the code requires, and it puts it proximate to other wetland and open space areas, to consolidate the growth where other development is. He said there are a number of RR-1 parcels throughout Saratoga Springs, there are a few that are analogous to this, which are essentially land locked, and are not just along country roads. He said the linkages between this Parcel 2 development are to make a connection back to Quevic, which is a dense UR-1 development, and to Geyser Road, which is a major thoroughfare in this area, which isn’t out in the country in the sense of the aesthetic. He said this is how they approach the logic of the guidelines within the conservation subdivision article. Dean Long said one of the guidelines in a conservation subdivision is to have a neighborhood cluster, which is what has been done here. He said the homes front to each other, with some separation and creation of some unique spaces. He said this subdivision has wooded entries on each end, into the neighborhood clustered area. He said the majority of the homes front on a wood lot, about 1 acre, some houses back up against a generous buffer, and others are adjacent to the 85 acres of preserved uplands. He said there is a proposed trail system through the uplands, which the houses will not heavily intrude on. Dan Ruzow said the nature of the trails is to use the existing uplands to have an opportunity to see the wetlands, intended to be passive for pedestrians with no motorized vehicles, it is not intended to be play area, it is a woodland preserve that will serve multiple functions both in terms of storm water and ecological interfaces. Dean said these lots are about double the size as the ones in the UR-1, at about 15,000 to 20,000+ square feet. Amy Durland asked if they were to designdid a non-clustered subdivision on that parcel, given the constraints of where it could go, what would it look like?. Chad Cooke said they would develop into the upland area. Dean Long said they did this layout back at sketch plan, extending a road into the upland area to get a double-loaded road. He said the ordinance says that you have to show that you can’t do a conservation subdivision, but a conservation City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – January 14, 2009 - Page 8 of 13 subdivision is the absolute preference in this zone. Dan Ruzow said the ecological importance of the interface of the upland areas on the wetlands is greater than the importance of the upland area, and that was the priority. Chad Cooke spoke about the Article IV guidelines that they would like you to attempt to adhere to. He said the first one is structures, and this layout is a neighborhood cluster. He said the second piece was regarding circulation systems in terms of curvilinear roadways, they are providing sidewalks and wood chip trails. He said the third item was vegetation, with a vegetative focal point with homes nestled around this, along with some plantings between some of the larger lots with diverse species to achieve the guideline. He said the center area is existing and will be left as is. Jamin Totino said Lot 75 land locks Lot 74, making 74 not adjacent to the conservation area or the significant buffer area. Dean Long said this is a remnant of the changes to eliminate some of the other lots. He said because of the grading of Lot 74, it ends up being heavily wooded toward it’s back. He said it would be feasible to create some rearrangement to provide pedestrian access, the trail runs down beside it, so it does have some pedestrian access back into the backlands, and it has a fair amount of wooded protection and creation of its own enclave. He said the other lots have a good visual connection to a forest in the front, but because of the necessity of getting the sewer lines in, you lose some of the forest cover, so there is a trade-off. Jamin said he would like to see how each house fits in with the current topography, and not to mold the topography to fit the houses. Chad Cooke said in terms of topography, they need to maintain the gravity connection to the sanitary sewer at ½% grade all the way back to the sanitary trunk line, so they must fill some areas to achieve the gravity, in some areas 6-7 feet of fill, and some areas may need to be cut to maintain the balance. Dean Long said a conservation subdivision says you want to look at what are the conservation lands, and then figure out where the development opportunities are, which is what they have done. Once you get into the site development, you use all of the varieties of techniques to create the conservation subdivision. He said because of the desirability of having the gravity sewer, they end up not being able to live within the natural land forms, which creates the opportunity to preserve 85 acres. Dean talked about the open space plan. He said the upland areas and the wetlands will be preserved and managed as Northern Harrier habitat, which like shrub communities. He said other more intensely managed areas will be the grassy knoll in the UR-1 and the forest focal point in the center of the buildable lots. He said these spaces will be easy to walk in, the trees will be pruned to about 10 feet making sure that there are no eye hazards, with some areas planted with grass. He said the other open space benefit on Parcel 1 is the Karner Blue Butterfly habitat, which will be managed and coordinated with the Department of Environmental Conservation. He said some trees will be cut down to let the lupine areas grow together. He said another open space protected area is the Hall site, which will be minimally managed, they will remove modern debris, but it will not be managed for walking. He said there are also 2 archeology areas, which will be left alone. The residential buffers will be cleaned out of contemporary trash, removing dead or dying trees, and then it will be left alone. Dan Ruzow said there will be clear identification of the trail areas, parking areas, and the sidewalks. He said they are talking with Paul Male about narrowing the pavement area for more permeability, which will have the beneficial effect of less wetland infill, and less use as a thoroughfare to get into Geyser Crest. Chad Cooke said this may be 22 feet, Dan Ruzow said safety must be City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – January 14, 2009 - Page 9 of 13 maintained, so they waiting to hear back from Paul. Dan Ruzow said their plan is to have the land held by the HOA with the conservation easement either held by the city or by a conservation group. He said they trying to obtain a copy of the Excelsior Park conservation easement to try to meet what they did. He said a second conservation easement would be developed with regard to the wetland mitigation area on Lot 85, they need DEC approval in order to fashion that. Clifford Van Wagner said Lot 75 appears troublesome in the way it sits out there. Chad Cooke said this used to be 2 lots which was made into one larger lot. Philip Klein suggested making the lots smaller and relocating access to the trail, then moving the house in. Chad Cooke and Dan Ruzow said they could do that. Dan Ruzow asked if the Board would object to narrowing the width of the road. Jaclyn Hakes said the rural road standard is a 24-foot pavement width, given that this is an RR-1 District, it would probably be appropriate to apply the rural road standards there, but she is not sure what the Department of Public Safety would think about that. Chad Cooke said that Paul Male had an issue with edge treatment with a narrow travel lane. Chad said he would recommend a mountable curb. Jamin Totino stated that he would like to see each lot, he said he would like to avoid blasting or leveling to make houses fit on lots, so they need expanded pictures of the topography of each lot to determine the best placement of the house on each particular lot. Chad said they need to keep in mind maintaining grading to drain to the sanitary line, he said it is difficult to situate a home on a lot to reduce grading impacts and to make it fit more into the contour of the land. Jamin said this is a concern with the conservation subdivision requirements. Dean Long said they are creating something that is sound engineering-wise by having gravity sewers. He said they could have preserved more topography by having numerous pump stations, but the preference is to have a well engineered layout. Jamin asked for a better understanding of what that trade-off means. Stu Messinger said Sheet 13 is the grading plan for this section, which has that. Clifford Van Wagner said Meadow Vista showed the Board the building on the lot, he asked if this applicant can show this, in addition to the setbacks and what other constraints exist within the setbacks. Cliff also asked the applicant to show Sheet 13 on the overhead at a later meeting. He said the Board would like to see what the building envelope is within the setbacks, and how much wiggle room is there. Jamin said he would like to know what needs to be changed on each lot in order to build. The applicant agreed that the drawings for next meeting will include setbacks for each lot. Dan Ruzow said the code doesn’t require elevations, so they just put down the locations as an example of where the building can go, but the code allows the Board to look at it more closely than that, which they can do. Jaclyn Hakes said in a conservation subdivision the Board can look at varied setbacks to maintain the character of a rural district. PUBLIC HEARING: Clifford Van Wagner asked for comments on the subdivision application, there is no reason to repeat comments, because they are in the record. Maggie Burby, 29 Casino Drive, asked if there could be an option be making the 1-acre circle loop bigger, extending the “U” up into the preserved buildable lands, then fit Lot 75 with the others and maintain what the surrounding neighborhoods would have behind them, then shift other lots to leave a 100-foot buffer behind the homes. City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – January 14, 2009 - Page 10 of 13 Mary Beth Delarm, 96 Quevic Drive, asked what Mr. Gaba’s profession is. Clifford Van Wagner said he is a realtor. She asked Dan Gaba if he feels that he can deliberate without an unbiased opinion with no conflict of interest. Dan Gaba said absolutely. Mary Beth Delarm said there are no maps in public library with this plan, so the neighbors haven’t seen it. Dan Ruzow this was on the September filing. Mary Beth Delarm said she agrees that Lot 75 should be blended in with the rest to reduce the impervious surface of the lengthy driveway. She said the next maps should be larger and have overlays on each lot showing the numbers of the lots with the topography, one with the elevation, and one with the setbacks and grading. She said she has submitted her comments in writing, but will publicly mention the important points. She said in regard to the bonus density, she doesn’t believe it’s been accepted yet, the neighbors and she still agree that they haven’t met the requirements because they are not creating open space by merely stating that a buffer is open space, which cannot be considered because it will not to be used for recreational purposes or by the public, which was stated in the plan. She said in regard to noise and vibration, the applicant stated that in the homes along Quevic Drive it could result in at least an 8 decibel increase in railroad noise, totaling approximately 52 decibels, during the time a train passes, which is only 3 decibels away from that which is acceptable in the US EPA’s protective noise levels, which she considers a significant adverse environmental impact. She said the applicant does not clarify if they are referring to existing homes or proposed homes. She said she doesn’t believe the applicant has done a vibration study, which is required by SEQRA. She said regarding storm water drainage, there is a severe existing problem, which this project will exacerbate, she encouraged no permits be approved. She said she has included in writing questions in regard to the deviation map, she believes 33 of the proposed lots are unacceptable to storm water management levels. She said the neighbors are discouraging the lengthy driveways. She asked if this project is approved, will it be for 85, not 90 lots. Dan Ruzow said 85 is what is being applied for. She asked if the applicant would be required to have driveways that fit 2 vehicles rather than 1 ½ for safety. She said at the last 2 meetings, the neighbors have noted that once Beaver Pond subdivision is stripped of its vegetation to prepare for construction and building, and the mature trees and the current water shed is removed, they can put in the infrastructure, but the lots can sit vacant and stripped until every home is sold. She said the applicant confirms this would be detrimental because the HOA is not required to exist until the last home is sold, which could be years, so the area would be forced into neglect and disrepair for the taxpayers and City Public Works would have to care for it, while it sits unprotected and unsightly. She said with the state of the economy, there are not enough wealthy homeowners who are willing to buy into wetland areas, or any area, so homes will sit unsold. She said the Board is not asking the applicant to put up a money bond for enforcement of this. She also asked what happens if someone from the HOA moves out, there is no reassurance that the land will be protected or built upon. She said SEQRA rules don’t provide for the economic factors of applicant to be a consideration, but they must be a considered for the city and the citizens. She quoted Andrew Bernstein in yesterday’s paper, saying that the need for affordable housing is greater than ever, with the worse economic downturn since the Great Depression, and why would we have such an expensive subdivision as large as this when it would be a detrimental economically and environmentally. She said she wonders about the cumulative traffic impact. She said she also wants to know what which city engineer has reviewed the storm water. She asked if there will be a new school study and new traffic study, because although enrollment is down temporarily, they do expect an increase, which will be a further burden on taxpayers. She said she was approached by some parents in the school district and teachers, who said they had received a letter from the school district administration noting that the air around Geyser Road School has been noted in USA Today as having one of worst in the United States. She said in her written comments, she stated it was a study out of 200,000 schools, but it was a study out of 130,000 school across America, done by the Environmental Protection Agency, and Geyser Road School is in the upper 4th percentile as City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – January 14, 2009 - Page 11 of 13 having one of the worst in the nation due to the local factories, and they feel that with a grade level this poor, with additional traffic, this will move them to the top of the list. She said this is a major reason for denying this. She said the article is titled “The Smokestack Effect”. She said her personal concern is why this hasn’t been mentioned in any of the major media, people who would be moving into the new construction should know about the existing toxins and the increased toxins from the major construction. She said the neighbors feel that the project does not mitigate in many instances and does not mitigate to the greatest extent possible where they can to alleviate or lessen the significant environmental impacts, and it will harm the environmental view shed, the rural character, history and heritage, green gateway to the City and the city in the country’s rural ambience and greenbelt that the Comprehensive Plan and Open Space Resources Plan urges the city to protect. She said they request further review and that they encourage the applicant to review the entire 209 acres, since they were expressing their concerns that their conservation subdivision was going to have contiguous open space with the tree nursery, and they should consider that it should remain contiguous with the State Park. Jaclyn Hakes added that a letter was received from Don Peters, 1 Casino Drive; a letter was received from Barbara Trypaluk, 211 Circular Street; an E-mail was received from Don Peters; and a letter was received from SHPO, dated January 13 in response to a letter they had received from Mary Beth Delarm. Jaclyn Hakes said that a lot of comments heard tonight were with regard to the environmental impact of the project. She asked Mark Schachner how much of those comments the Board should consider, since the FEIS is complete. Mark Schachner said comments about the SEQRA review has been accomplished, however, there is some overlap between the subdivision review concerns and the SEQRA concerns. He said to the extent that a comment really is about environmental impact only, and not subdivision configuration, that would no longer be a viable comment at this point. Clifford Van Wagner said the applicant has been asked for additional drawings. Dan Ruzow said they are aware and will also come with information about the UR-1 detail as well. Laura Rappaport said on the cover sheet of the latest drawings, the conservation subdivision summary table talks about 50% of constrained land, which should say unconstrained land. Chad Cooke said the power point had been corrected already, and this will be corrected on the cover sheet. Clifford Van Wagner indicated that next week’s meeting will be on Thursday, not Wednesday. Jamin Totino said Maggie presented an intriguing idea, and he is not proposing to re-work the entire thing, but he asked for a sketch of the expansion of the center forested area, if it is possible. Chad Cooke said to get to the upland area, there are wetlands to consider. Philip Klein asked if it could be moved slightly, Chad said there is some area. Stu Messinger suggested they could accomplish the same thing but putting restrictions on the building envelope on that lot to get the buffer. Phil said space could be taken from the larger lots and shifted. Chad said they will work on this option. Laura Rappaport asked if there is a lighting plan. Chad said he will likely have that with his next set of plans. City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – January 14, 2009 - Page 12 of 13 Mary Beth Delarm said no one has seen the map that was presented tonight, because it is not in the library, which shows a difference in the ponds. Dan Ruzow said it was only the narrative regarding the ponds that was changed, not the map. Clifford Van Wagner said this map is available at City Hall. Jaclyn Hakes said this isn’t part of the subdivision application. Chad Cooke said the map presented tonight is a map that he colored and was broken up into Parcel 1 and Parcel 2 for this presentation only, and won’t be found on a map. APPROVAL OF MINUTES. Jamin Totino moved to approve the minutes of December 10, 2008, and December 18, 2008, with the submitted changes, Philip Klein seconded. Vote: Jamin Totino, in favor; Amy Durland, in favor; Laura Rappaport, in favor; Philip Klein, in favor; Dan Gaba, abstain; Clifford Van Wagner, in favor. NEXT MEETING The next Planning Board meeting is scheduled for January 22, 2009 (Thursday) at 7:00 P.M. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business, Clifford Van Wagner adjourned the meeting at 10:13 P.M. Respectfully submitted, Kathleen Livsey Recording Secretary Approved: February 11, 2009 City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – January 14, 2009 - Page 13 of 13