Planning Board

PLANNING BOARD MINUTES WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 9, 2009 7:00 P.M. CITY COUNCIL ROOM PRESENT: Clifford Van Wagner, Chair; Jamin Totino, Vice-Chair; Amy Durland; Michael Perkins; Laura Rappaport; Philip Klein; Dan Gaba ABSENT: No-one STAFF: Jaclyn Hakes, Principal Planner CALL TO ORDER Chair Clifford Van Wagner called the meeting to order at 7:03 P.M. SALUTE TO THE FLAG ANNOUNCEMENT OF RECORDING OF PROCEEDING Clifford Van Wagner said the proceedings of this meeting are being taped for the benefit of the secretary. Because the minutes are not a verbatim record of the proceedings, the minutes are not a word-for-word transcript of the recording. REPORT ON ADMINISTRATIVE ACTIONS BY THE CHAIR The Bokan family lot line adjustment on Grand Avenue was approved by the Chairman. The Skidmore College Zankal Music Center rescinded their previous request to relocate an existing exit lane and asphalt sidewalk, approved. POSTPONED PROJECTS 09.037, Vetter Lot Line Adjustment, 437 Crescent Avenue, has been adjourned to September 23, 2009. 09.034, SBA/Verizon Communications Facility Site Plan review, 2328 Route 50 has been adjourned to a future date pending completion of their application. COMMENTS FROM THE CHAIR There will be a joint land use boards meeting on September 29, 2009, at 7:00 P.M. in the Music Hall. Topics to discuss will be announced at a later date. The Spa State Park Master Plan is now available in the public library. Paul Male, City Engineer, has brought the Planning Board up to date on the possibility of developing fees for the review of the very intricate Storm Water Management Plans that now have to accompany certain projects. The Planning Board encouraged him to develop a proposal of fees and an explanation of what he would like the City Council to consider and vote on for adoption. This information will come to the Planning Board at a later meeting when he is available. PRIVILEGE OF THE FLOOR Clifford Van Wagner gave this opportunity to allow citizens to address planning issues not on the scheduled agenda. Hearing none. LETTER OF CREDIT REVISIONS: 07.072.1 Saratoga Hospital Emergency Department, 211 Church Street This is a request for a Letter of Credit reduction as well as an extension. DISCLOSURES: The wives of Clifford Van Wagner and Michael Perkins are employed at the Saratoga Hospital. Phil Klein is a past Board member and Chairman of the hospital. Michael Perkins has hired the LA Group within the last 12 months. BACKGROUND: Jaclyn Hakes gave the background. She said this Letter of Credit is specific to the Emergency Department renovations. A good portion of that project has been completed, thus the request for a reduction and one-year extension. The reduction request is to $72,727; however, Paul Male is recommending a reduction to $76,900. There are no comments from any other city department. Appearing before the Board was Matt Brobston with the LA Group. Clifford Van Wagner informed him that an extension can go for up to 18 months. Matt Brobston indicated that one year is sufficient time to accomplish the remaining work. PUBLIC COMMENT: Hearing none. DECISION: Jamin Totino made a motion to approve the Letter of Credit reduction to $76,900 and extension to one year. Amy Durland seconded. Vote: Jamin Totino, in favor; Amy Durland, in favor; Michael Perkins, in favor; Laura Rappaport, in favor; Philip Klein, in favor; Dan Gaba, in favor; Clifford Van Wagner, in favor. Motion carries 7-0. City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes –September 9, 2009 - Page 2 of 20 04.020.2 Floral Estates-Section 2, Phase 4, Lilac Lane Mr. Belmonte was not present. He has requested a Letter of Credit extension for two years in the amount of $80,900. Clifford Van Wagner indicated that the Planning Board has the authority to approve up to an 18-month extension. PUBLIC COMMENT: Hearing none. Jaclyn Hakes stated that the current Letter of Credit does not expire until the end of September, so the Board can adjourn this request until Mr. Belmonte is in attendance. Clifford Van Wagner said it is beneficial for the City to have the Letter of Credit rather than let it expire; therefore, a motion will be entertained and voted upon tonight. DECISION: Michael Perkins made a motion to extend the existing Letter of Credit extension for $80,900 for 18 months from the end of this month. Jamin Totino seconded. Vote: Jamin Totino, in favor; Amy Durland, in favor; Michael Perkins, in favor; Laura Rappaport, in favor; Philip Klein, in favor; Dan Gaba, in favor; Clifford Van Wagner, in favor. Motion Carries 7-0. 08.067.2 Fasig Tipton, Corner of East Avenue and George Street An existing Letter of Credit is valid through December 2010 in the amount of $168,300. This is a request to reduce this to $83,000. Appearing before the Board was Mike Ingersoll, who indicated that a good portion of the work has been done. He stated that they are only allowed to reduce it by 75% of the value. All the infrastructure in the street has been done. He also indicated that this is a cash escrow rather than a Letter of Credit. PUBLIC COMMENT: Hearing none. DISCUSSION: Amy Durland stated that it was reported in the Saratogian last month about a $352,000 restaurant expansion on the site, which was not part of the Planning Board’s review. Mike Ingersoll said may have been a misquote, there were renovations to the existing restaurant, which was part of the review. He said he is not aware of where the Saratogian article came from. He said there was no addition to the footprint, and that everything that was done was City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes –September 9, 2009 - Page 3 of 20 compliant with the Site Plan review. He stated he never read the newspaper article and, therefore, cannot speak to it. Amy Durland requested that Jaclyn Hakes check into the seeming discrepancy before the next meeting. DECISION: Dan Gaba made a motion to approve a Letter of Credit reduction to $83,000, as recommended by Paul Male. Philip Klein seconded. Vote: Jamin Totino, in favor; Amy Durland, in favor; Michael Perkins, in favor; Laura Rappaport, in favor; Philip Klein, in favor; Dan Gaba, in favor; Clifford Van Wagner, in favor. Motion Carries 7-0. Peter Belmonte, applicant for Floral Estates, arrived at the meeting and was informed that his request for a Letter of Credit extension was approved for 18 months rather than 24 months, per City Code. 03.088.2 The Lexington Club, Marion Avenue Clifford Van Wagner explained the timetable of this project. He said an existing Letter of Credit is before the Board tonight in the amount of $337,334 for phases 3, 4 and 5. The applicant is requesting no reduction. Appearing before the Board was David Carr, who stated that the amount he has for the Letter of Credit is $444,756, for phases 3, 4 and 5. Jaclyn Hakes indicated that is correct amount, the amount of $337,334 was for for phases 1 and 2. David Carr said that when a Letter of Credit extension was granted in July of last year, he gave the Board a presentation of what had been approved in 2004 because all of the Board members were different at that time. He was directed to put together and amended Site Plan application, which was smaller than what was previously proposed. He said that plan was put on hold because of a loss of financing in the fall of last year, which has continued through the summer. He said their hope is to turn that application around and submit it. He stated that the project does have a valid permanent Site Plan because construction was started. The applicant feels it makes sense to keep the Letter of Credits in place for the future project. He said they probably will increase because of the economy. He stated that the work will basically be the same, which this Board will review. The hope is to be working on it by this time next year. Clifford Van Wagner asked what has been done on-site. He stated that there have been some concerns with the way the site looks. David Carr said he has spoken to the owner about that on many occasions. The LA Group was hired to do the environmental inspections for the SWPPP. The stability of the site is in order. David indicated that Paul Male, the City’s SWPPP Administrator, agrees with that. Aesthetics is the issue. Construction debris needs to be removed by the contractor. David said he would like the contractor to take the construction City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes –September 9, 2009 - Page 4 of 20 fence down and mow. Clifford Van Wagner asked David Carr to encourage the contractor to do that at the request of the Planning Board. David Carr stated that he will do that. PUBLIC COMMENT: Hearing none. DECISION: Jamin Totino made a motion to extend the Letter of Credit of $444,756 to December 31, 2010. Laura Rappaport seconded. Vote: Jamin Totino, in favor; Amy Durland, in favor; Michael Perkins, in favor; Laura Rappaport, in favor; Philip Klein, in favor; Dan Gaba, in favor; Clifford Van Wagner, in favor. Motion Carries 7-0. Clifford Van Wagner stated that it is beneficial to the City, the Planning Board and the City Engineer to continue to re-up the Letters of Credit. He said that money enables the City to complete unfinished items that are not completed by the applicant. 03.044.1 Oak Ridge, 1 Oak Ridge Boulevard This is a request to extend the Letter of Credit to March 31, 2010, in the amount of $118,500. Appearing before the Board was Joe Snyder, who said the Letter of Credit is for the top coat of the road. He said he would like to get more build-out before that is completed. He indicated that he was not aware of the available 18-month extension, and would like to request an extension to 18 months. PUBLIC COMMENT: Hearing none. Dan Gaba made a motion to approve an 18-month Letter of Credit extension in the amount of $118,500. Jamin Totino seconded. Vote: Jamin Totino, in favor; Amy Durland, in favor; Michael Perkins, in favor; Laura Rappaport, in favor; Philip Klein, in favor; Dan Gaba, in favor; Clifford Van Wagner, in favor. Motion Carries 7-0. APPLICATIONS  07.093.1 Meadow Vista Subdivision Extension, 520-546 Grand Avenue City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes –September 9, 2009 - Page 5 of 20 This is an extension of a 21-lot subdivision in a Rural Residential-1 District. DISCLOSURE: Jaclyn Hakes was, but no longer is, on the Board of Directors of Saratoga P.L.A.N. BACKGROUND: Clifford Van Wagner gave the background. The Planning Board previously issued a SEQR negative declaration, no project change or change in neighborhood has occurred. Appearing before the Board was Mike Toohey, on behalf of developers of Meadow Vista. Mr. Toohey stated that on July 10, 2008, the Planning Board made a final determination on this project. At about that time, the applicants realized that their one year had passed and they submitted an application on July 16, 2009 to extend the previously granted approval. He said that it is within the subdivision regulations that the Planning Board has the right to waive the strict mandate of the one-year rule. He requested that the Planning Board do so for these 6 days. He indicated that there has been no change in the plans or neighborhood and no building permits have been issued in that area for other projects. The delay is due to the myriad numbers of approvals required, which are now in place. If the extension is granted, plans will be forwarded to the appropriate agencies. He said some minor changes to the plans were submitted to the City in August at the request of the City, no feedback has been received yet. He said there has been no harm to the community, neighborhood, Master Plan, and nothing has changed. Clifford Van Wagner asked what the minor changes were. Jason Dell, Lansing Engineering, said these changes included upgrades to the sanitary sewer pump station. Clifford Van Wagner indicated that there were questions at the Planning Board’s workshop regarding the Planning Board’s ability regarding granting this extension. According to Article VII of the Subdivision regulations of the City Code, “1. The granting of the waiver will not be detrimental to the public health, safety or welfare or injurious of the property. 2. The conditions of the request are unique and not applicable to other property subdivision approvals and that the final approval was delayed by factors outside the control of the City and the applicant (Department of Health delays) and the necessary approvals from the Department of Health have since been received. 3. The relief will not in any manner vary the provision of the Zoning Ordinance or Comprehensive Plan. 4. There has been no project change or change in the surrounding neighborhood." Cliff said that at the workshop, Paul Male commented on the myriad of Department of Health issues that slowed this project down. Paul indicated that these delays are not specific to this project, it is just the amount of time that it takes for the Department of Environmental Conservation and the Department of Health to react to requests. Jackie Hakes said it is up to the Board to follow the waiver clause, which only applies to the subdivision regulations, not the zoning regulations. She said the Planning Board attorney confirmed the language in the notes. Amy Durland asked for an explanation of the countdown to the need for an extension. Jackie Hakes said this is not clearly outlined in the subdivision regulations; however, the way it has been interpreted to date is that the 12-month time period starts from the time that the Notice of Decision is filed with the City Clerk. She said an application must be submitted prior to the expiration, to allow some flexibility to accommodate the applicant based on the Planning Board schedule. She said because there was no August Planning Board meeting, and because of the required public hearing, it was not on the last agenda. City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes –September 9, 2009 - Page 6 of 20 Amy Durland said when she was on the Zoning Board, the extension of application process was sloppy and not being treated seriously. She said after a number of years, the City decided to treat the deadlines seriously, and there was discussion about getting the word out to applicants’ attorneys and consultants that typically appear before the Boards to let them know that these extensions would be taken seriously and literally. She said this process has improved, and although she recognizes the complexities of the process, her issue has to do with coming back to the Board in time to get the extension so a full application is not necessary. She said her question is where to draw the line, and what creates a precedent for future applicants. Jackie Hakes said within the waiver clause, the Board considers the uniqueness of the request, which would not automatically apply to any other request in the future. Laura Rappaport said applicants should consider tighter attendance to looking ahead in the calendar to prevent this kind of thing from happening in the future. DECISION: Phil Klein Made a motion to waive the expiration requirements set forth in Article II, Subsection 15, for this subdivision approval and grant a 12-month extension. The Planning Board may waive Subdivision Regulations quoted in Article VII of the Subdivision Regulations based on the following: 1. The granting of the waiver will not be detrimental to the public health, safety or welfare or injurious to other property 2. The conditions of the request are unique and not applicable to other property or subdivision approvals in that the final approval was delayed by factors outside the control of the City and the applicant (Department of Health approval delays) and the necessary approvals from the Department of Health have since been received. 3. The relief will not in any manner vary the provision of the Zoning Ordinance or Comprehensive Plan. 4. There has been no project change or change in the surrounding neighborhood. Jamin Totino seconded. PUBLIC HEARING: Hearing none. DISCUSSION: Amy Durland indicated that she wishes the applicant well, and her vote has nothing to do with the difficulty getting the other approvals, but she will not support the motion because she doesn’t believe that the reasons articulated are distinguishable from any other situation that could come up. She said she would prefer to stick to the letter of the requirement. Laura Rappaport stated that she concurs with Amy that there are no extenuating circumstances. She said she thinks it could have been addressed earlier in the year and not put the Planning Board in the position to waive their own regulations. Vote: Jamin Totino, in favor; Amy Durland, opposed; Michael Perkins, in favor; Laura Rappaport, opposed; Philip Klein, in favor; Dan Gaba, in favor; Clifford Van Wagner, in favor. City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes –September 9, 2009 - Page 7 of 20 Motion carries 5-2.  09.032 Weibel Avenue Mixed-Use Development, 60 Weibel Avenue This is a continuation of a public hearing for a Special Use Permit for a mixed use development in a Transect-4 Urban Neighborhood District. BACKGROUND: Clifford Van Wagner gave the background. He said last week the Planning Board and Design Review Commission conducted a joint meeting, which was beneficial to both sides. The DRC’s scope of review was mass and scale and impact on neighborhood. He said usually the DRC reviews an application and communicates by letter to the Planning Board regarding their opinion. Cliff said it was beneficial to hear their deliberations and see how they start their projects. This was an informational, non-binding meeting, with no vote taken. The request before the Planning Board tonight is for 416,000 square feet of mixed use buildings and apartment buildings. Appearing before the Board were David Carr, the LA Group, and Michael Tuck, with Balzer, Hodge, Tuck Architecture. David Carr reviewed the ordinance standards for Special Use Permits. If a Special Use Permit is granted, the next steps would be Site Plan approval and Architectural approval. He said this is part of the Weibel Avenue North district in the Comprehensive Plan, and it does meet the intent of the Comprehensive Plan and the uses specified in the proposal. He said the focus of discussion in past meetings has been on density, mass and scale. He said this is the first real project in this large T-4 zone in this area, which is largely vacant land. He said extensive traffic analysis has been done on this corridor in the past. In August, a counter was put out, which was almost 4 years to the day from when the last counts were taken. The actual counts were 5% less than assumptions made from prior traffic study, and less than the counts from 2004. There will be traffic mitigation associated with this proposal. As far as impacts on infrastructure, the applicant will extend the sewer lines down Weibel Avenue and up Route 29 to the existing pump station, which will serve the remainder of the T-4 zone, the existing National Grid facility and the ice rink. He indicated that this T-4 zone is different in that it is not within a neighborhood. The site consists of deep sand with very little vegetation, it is not susceptible to flooding, and it has good access. New York State Department of Environmental Conservation letters have been received indicating there are no invasive species on the site, Karner Blue butterfly, or blue lupine. He said this site is important because they will be setting up the zone, which is different than most T-4 zones. David Carr said at the Planning Board workshop, comments were made regarding linkages with the surrounding property. He indicated that Weibel Avenue and Lake Avenue are county bike routes. Weibel Avenue is designated by the Saratoga Healthy Transportation Network as a bike lane designation on the shoulder. He said they would be amendable to that on the frontage of their property. Although these would be short, it would start introducing bike lanes in the City. He suggested that maybe on Weibel Avenue instead of a sidewalk, there may be road, green space and then a dedicated bike path that could be extended up Weibel Avenue which is 6 or 8 feet wide. He said although they don’t own the adjacent properties, if the PBA road could be extended back to the PBA fields and a link parallel with Weibel Avenue brought up to Louden Road, there could be a real bike route connection from Target back to Weibel Avenue. He said they would be happy to discuss this at Site Plan review. He said they envision the possibility of expanding a pedestrian path that exists from Knoll Spring Park to the PBA fields. There is also an old City easement that could be developed from the ice rink to Old Schuylerville Road City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes –September 9, 2009 - Page 8 of 20 Extension, which would be the linkage of the Spring Run Trail on the other side of the Northway to Bog Meadow Trail. These linkages would be in addition to the sidewalks within the interior roads of the project. Michael Tuck spoke about how this proposed development relates to other areas in the city. He presented slides which show that it is comparable in size and traffic patterns to Beekman Street and the East Side neighborhood. He stated that the mixed use buildings would be along Weibel Avenue, they propose rowhouse type structures at the middle third with semi-detached garages that form private yards, and townhome style development is at the lower and upper right corners. Jaclyn Hakes gave a summary of the Design Review Commission comments from the September 2, 2009, joint meeting. She said the new process of having a joint meeting with other land use boards was successful. She said the DRC feels the applicant is heading in the right direction in regard to mass and scale and in introduction to architecture. She said Patrick Kane, DRC Chairman, said, “The size and flavor seem appropriate for the T-4 district.” They did like the gabled roof approach. There was some concern regarding the mixed use units to break up the massing of the structures along the frontage of Weibel Avenue. They also indicated that 2 to 3 story maximum is what they are looking at. Clifford Van Wagner indicated that the joint meeting was needed because this project needs both a Special Use Permit, which means the use is legal on the site with the benefit of discussion, they don’t need a use variance. If the Special Use Permit is granted, then the Site Plan application can move forward and then review by the DRC. He said the Planning Board was struggling to deal with Special Use Permit and not Site Plan issues now, so the goal of that joint meeting was to hear the deliberation of the DRC, which appeared to work. DISCUSSION: Amy Durland stated that she is reluctant to leave all transportation issues for Site Plan based on SEQRA questions, and one of the major Special Use Permit criteria is the absence of hazardous parking or traffic conditions. She said the transect zone is based on the urbanist model of development, and alternative transportation is elemental to that philosophy. Amy asked how a bike lane might work without being obliterated by turn lanes on the road. She asked if trail connections are in lieu of sidewalks exterior to the project. Dave Carr said the there is a possibility that in lieu of a sidewalk on Weibel Avenue and the PBA road, they could widen the road, then have a greenway, with an asphalt lane toward the development to act as bike lane and sidewalk. He said the turning lanes would not interfere. The hope is that properties to the north would do the same thing. On the PBA road, they are thinking about extending the lanes beyond the development to the fields. He said there would be more standard city streets with curbed sidewalks interior to the site. Amy said she agrees with the internal sidewalks, and some of these ideas have some merit. She said the bike/pedestrian lane idea is not mutually exclusive to the concept of linking up with trails. Amy said the prospect of creating the linkages is exciting, but her preference is before further progression, they should figure out how it would work and to what extent the project could help or contribute without going too far. She said the other element of the new urbanist transect zone model is public transportation, which is not part of an existing neighborhood. She indicated that she applauds the applicant for addressing this. She stated that although the traffic study may indicate there is no hazard crossing Weibel Avenue, she will never believe it. She said there has to be some significant mitigation of pedestrian control and safety. Because hazardous traffic conditions is an element of Special Use Permit, she would like to have a better idea of what those mitigation measures might be in terms of a pedestrian control light. Dave Carr said they have talked about City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes –September 9, 2009 - Page 9 of 20 this at length and their transportation engineer said this project alone, using projections created by CDTA, would create about 6 riders per day. He said they brought this to the table, but will probably pull it from the table, but will make some provision for a future CDTA bus stop interior to the site. He said they agree with the Board that a CDTA bus stop should be interior to the project, but CDTA stated they will not turn around in the site. Amy stated that she thinks Weibel Avenue needs to be adjusted and there should be significant traffic mitigation efforts made, she said she was not one of the Board members who thought the bus should be pulling into the development. She agrees with the original discussion of having bus stops on both sides of Weibel Avenue. She said we need to turn it into a new urbanist setting. Dave Carr said if they are looking at the cost of mitigation of getting those 6 people across the street, then maybe they wouldn’t have a project. He said given the sewer development they will do and now the possibility of a contribution to trail extensions, the money may be better spent in the future when the riders exist. He thinks it make more sense to have the bus stop within the site. Cliff Van Wagner said the thought of people crossing Weibel Avenue is a concern to everyone, with or without mitigation. He said personally he thinks it makes sense to make a provision for bus stop inside the development, for when ridership warrants it, rather than on the other side of Weibel Avenue where the landfill is. He said one applicant does not need to solve every issue out there. Perhaps the next applicant can contribute to a pull-out on Weibel Avenue. Cliff said the applicant has expressed an interest in working on a walking trail and a sidewalk/bicycle trail, and he said the Board can’t ask the applicant to commit to too many Site Plan issues at the Special Use Permit portion of this hearing. He indicated that SEQRA Part II Question 15 addresses effects on existing transportation, and the mitigation is that traffic issues will be included in the Site Plan review. Jackie Hakes stated that the Board can indicate at SEQRA review that mitigation is needed as a condition of the Special Use permit itself, as opposed to the SEQRA mitigation being more specific. For example, provisions for future public transit stops and opportunities on the interior of the site, leaving it open as to where on the interior of the site that should occur and what should occur, as well as providing more pedestrian and bicycle connections and linkages on the interior, be it sidewalks, on the exterior perhaps sidewalks, perhaps bike lanes, or perhaps shared paths. She said it is up to the Board to decide how specific it wants to be in SEQRA regarding the requirements and mitigations that are identified in the SEQR document. If a negative declaration is issued based on those decisions at SEQRA, and they cannot be accomplished at the Site Plan level, the SEQRA would have to be re-opened and the Board would reexamine that. Phil Klein asked what size of sewer pipe would be installed, and what percentage of the total capacity would this project use. Dave Carr said the biggest issues with forced mains is lack of flow, so the more users there are the better they function. He said it is the pumps that are upgraded. Jamin Totino said this has come a long way in regard to meeting the T-4 District and regarding Site Plan issues, but there is still room to grow. He said he has no concerns about Special Use Permit. Laura Rappaport said she concurs with Jamin, she has more things for Site Plan. She said the T-4 guidelines talk more about primarily detached and side yard building types. She said what is being presented is attached buildings trying to look like detached buildings with back yards. She stated that she commends the applicant’s thoughts about alternative transportation, and that she will have traffic concerns down the line. Cliff Van Wagner said Site Plan is a larger portion of the application process, so the Board will systematically go through SEQR Part II and see if there is a project. He said the use is allowed City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes –September 9, 2009 - Page 10 of 20 with the benefit of a Special Use Permit, so a foundation needs to be built to see if there is a project to proceed to Site Plan and DRC, which was the goal of the joint meeting. Michael Perkins said the biggest issue will be traffic. He said a lot of the issues and concerns he has are probably Site Plan issues. He feels that at lot of the traffic issues have been mitigated from the Special Use Permit perspective, so he is prepared to start looking at SEQR and start getting public comment. PUBLIC HEARING: Caroline Stem, 55 Catherine Street, stated that she is encouraged to hear the conversation about bike and pedestrian access, and she agrees with Amy. She stated that as an active member of the Healthy Transportation Network, she is concerned that Weibel Avenue is noted as a bicycle avenue. She said she would not encourage anyone to ride a bicycle there. She said having that small section of bike path there is not enough, there needs to be a connection. She said that portion of Lake Avenue is also not safe. She said if the City is going to call these bicycle routes, there should be signs and bikes painted in the roads. Dave Carr said it is signed and designated as a bicycle lane road by the county. Ms. Stem said possibly those are proposed. Cliff Van Wagner said Board agrees on those considerations and more applicants are needed to step up to the plate. Amy Durland asked what uses are being proposed for the commercial portion. Dave Carr said they don’t know, but he has a list of what they are proposing to be allowed, which are less than what is actually allowed. He said they are services associated with a neighborhood, or smaller scale things. They are on the cover sheet and in the application and SEQR form, which include: art gallery, bakery, barber/beauty shop, boutique, business incubator, business office, convenience sales and service, day care center, eating and drinking establishment, florist, general retail, mixed use, neighborhood center, professional office, real estate office, recreational facility, retail, training and education services. He explained that their thought regarding the eating and drinking establishment is a coffee shop, which falls into that category, and the Board can restrict that. He said their maximum square footages are 10,800 square feet, which would be one of those buildings. He said one use could take up one building, but they don’t foresee that, and this can also be restricted. Amy Durland asked if there is an issue with the proximity to the firing range. Michael Tuck and Dave Carr said they fire to the north, and this site is to the west. Dave said there are children playing closer to the firing range than this project would be, and they do fire when they are out there. Jackie Hakes said the police department did review this and their concern was not with regard to safety, but with noise. Amy asked about potential odors from the compost area. Dave Carr said that is not as much of an issue since they are apartments. Amy asked how their analysis led to apartments. Dave said the market is better for apartments over condominiums. Amy asked if are any affordable housing thoughts. Dave said they have thought about it; however, it is off the table right now. He said the market will drive the rents and the apartments above the commercial spaces will be smaller and more affordable. He said with the off-site issues and improvements it becomes very difficult. Amy asked if they may be able to alter the amenities to accommodate some affordable housing. Dave said it is possible, they are not proposing it, but it is never off the table. Amy said this seems like a good opportunity for that on a voluntary basis, because of the large number of units and with the units above the commercial facility. Amy asked about the possibility of the Karner Blue butterfly living in the area. Dave said they have a letter from the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation that there is no record of it, and they have verification from their own biologist cataloging the City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes –September 9, 2009 - Page 11 of 20 vegetation on the site. Amy asked if they intend to save the existing grove of trees. Dave said they do, which is shown on the site plan. He said they have to look at the grades and how the site works, but it is a fairly flat sandy site SEQR PART I: The Board reviewed changes to SEQR Part I. Number 11 was modified to reflect what Dave Carr discussed with regard to the letter from the National Heritage area as well as the field verification. Number 3 was modified to reflect “100% well drained” soils, which was a typographical error. Number 18 was modified to indicate the use of herbicides for fertilizing. SEQR PART II: The Board reviewed SEQR Part II . Number 6, the Board will require a Storm Water Pollution Prevention Plan. Number 17, the Board notes the proximity of a composting site and a firing range. Amy Durland recommended that the comment on Number 15 state that traffic mitigation measures are to be included in the Special Use Permit review and Site Plan review. She said it is an important enough issue so that it is identified specifically in the Special Use permit criteria. Dave Carr said he does agree with that; however, they have submitted the study as part of the Special Use permit, with additional information to reinforce the study, and they have proposed mitigation as recommended in the study that will be further detailed during Site Plan review. He said he doesn’t have an issue with stating that it is an issue in Part II, and it will continue to be part of the discussion in Site Plan. Amy indicated that the Board may decide to look at and accept other mitigation measures than what is suggested in the consultant’s report, which would be part of the larger discussion in the Special Use Permit, based on the criteria. Cliff Van Wagner said the applicant is ready, willing and able to address traffic mitigation specific measures as they come up, if they get to Site Plan review. He said based on the fact that the site plan has not been identified as final, and because of what DRC has to weigh in on regarding the issues heard on September 2, those issues cannot be determined now. He said he agrees mitigation needs to be done, which can be done at the Site Plan. He said if the Board doesn’t get through traffic at Site Plan, SEQR will be reopened. He said the City and Planning Board has plenty of coverage. Dave Carr indicated that the City staff and Department of Public Safety have not commented to date, but have had the opportunity to do that. They will have the opportunity to comment at Site Plan and will make their recommendations. He said there are no engineered drawings for them to look at at the Special Use permit review. He said the Special Use permit review is conceptual. Amy said while Special Use is more conceptual than the Site Plan review, she thinks the Board needs to take a good look at those items at Special Use permit review and conceptually identify the things that are needed. Dave Carr said he agrees, and he thinks they have done that. Amy said she doesn’t think they are there yet. She said she thinks it is appropriate to address what conceptually the Board wants to see. Dave Carr repeated that they have proposed the mitigation as part of the Special Use Permit. He said the consultant has recommended a striped center turn lane and an extra left turn lane out of the PBA access road, which is an existing issue. This was part of the mitigation that was City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes –September 9, 2009 - Page 12 of 20 approved in 2005, which was a different project, but there is actually less traffic associated with this project. Laura Rappaport said she thinks the bigger picture is being able to get in and out of Weibel Avenue. Phil Klein pointed out that the geometry that is necessary to make safe turns, etc., are all done by staff and are normally done at Site Plan. Jamin Totino said he agrees with that, along with the question of buses, which will come up in Site Plan when looking at the whole project comprehensively. Jamin Totino made a motion that based on the information provided by the applicant in Part I of the SEQR Full Environmental Assessment Form and analysis of the information provided and presented in Part II of the SEQR Full Environmental Assessment Form, that the project will not result in any large and important impact and, therefore, is one that will not have a significant adverse impact on the environment. Based on this, I move to make a SEQR Negative Declaration for this action. Phil Klein seconded. Clifford Van Wagner opened up discussion, keeping in mind that this is Special Use Permit. He said this is just the tip of the iceberg for this project. The applicant, if this is successful, has a lot of work to do on Site Plan issues and with DRC. DRC will dictate how the final mass and scale of this project weighs out, which will then give the applicant roads and accesses, that will then determine how the Site Plan is sited, and the traffic issue then will have something concrete to look at, rather than what-ifs. DISCUSSION: Amy Durland said she believes it is appropriate to discuss a lot of these issues in the Special Use permit. She said she thinks the Board’s goal is to narrow the scope of review, but she thinks the Board needs to broaden the scope of review to look at the surrounding neighborhoods and area and trail connections. Cliff Van Wagner said he agrees, but the Board can only look at what the applicant has proposed. He said the Board cannot dictate anything on land that is not owned by this applicant. Amy said as planners there are decisions that can be addressed on that property on the basis of a broader look overall. Her preference is to have more formal consultation and more information, looking at the area generally around Weibel Avenue. Michael Perkins said in his opinion they have discussed traffic and transportation as much as possible at this stage. SEQR Vote: Jamin Totino, in favor; Amy Durland, opposed; Michael Perkins, in favor; Laura Rappaport, in favor; Philip Klein, in favor; Dan Gaba, in favor; Clifford Van Wagner, in favor. Motion Carries 6-1. SPECIAL USE PERMIT: Michael Perkins indicated that he noticed discrepancies between the list of possible uses in the agenda notes versus the list from the applicant. Dave Carr read the list from the cover sheet of the application as follows: Art gallery; bakery shop; barber/beauty shop; boutique; business incubator; business office; convenience sales and service; day care center; eating and drinking establishment; florist; general retail; neighborhood center; professional office; real City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes –September 9, 2009 - Page 13 of 20 estate office; recreational facility/indoor; retail, (which is the same as general retail); training and education services. In addition, 178 residential units. General retail was added to the Board’s list from application cover sheet, and general retail would be the same a retail. Dave Carr said the T-4 zone is an open-ended zone as far as uses, but they are focusing on smaller service oriented uses. Jackie Hakes indicated that the Board may wish to consider the defined use “neighborhood convenience store”, which limits the square footage to 2,000 square feet and focuses more on pedestrian clientele, rather than “convenience sales and service”. Dave Carr stated that is what they were intending, and agreed to this change. Jackie said it is difficult to enforce a limited number of seats associated with an eating and drinking establishment, so limiting the square footage will help to minimize the impact and will be easier to enforce. She suggested a limit 1,500 square feet per establishment, the Board members and the applicant agreed. DECISION: Jamin Totino made a motion to approve the Special Use Permit with the following provisions in place: 1. Replace “convenience sales and service” with “neighborhood convenience store”, as defined in the City’s zoning code 2. Limit “eating and drinking establishment” to up to 1,500 square feet per establishment 3. Provide for provisions for future public transit stop, location to be determined at Site Plan level 4. Provide for bicycle and pedestrian linkages, within the project site and along the perimeter of the site along Weibel Avenue and future roadways to the south via either sidewalks, bike lanes and/or separate shared use paths Michael Perkins seconded. Amy Durland said she feels the Board is rushing the Special Use Permit, especially because of discussions about neighborhood and trail connections. She said these issues should be incorporated into the Special Use Permit rather than Site Plan. She said this is the time to be looking broadly at the project as a whole in the context of the area that it’s in. She asked if affordable housing is off the table, because it won’t be discussed at Site Plan. Dave Carr said as of now it is off the table, but could be brought back on the table, and could be discussed during Site Plan. Cliff Van Wagner said the consensus of the Board is that these issues can be handled at Site Plan. Amy stated that there are too many issues to be discussed at Site Plan, and the applicant is doing this at their own risk. She feels there is a possibility it could break down at any time and a more prudent way to go would be to discuss the broader issues more comprehensively and get input from the community at the Special Use Permit and save the details for the Site Plan. Cliff Van Wagner stated that he is confident that Site Plan review is going to take a long time and these issues can be addressed at that time. Phil Klein said there will be ample time for the public and special interest groups to address questions during Site Plan. Vote: Jamin Totino, in favor; Amy Durland, opposed; Michael Perkins, in favor; Laura Rappaport, in favor; Philip Klein, in favor; Dan Gaba, in favor; Clifford Van Wagner, in favor. Motion carries 6-1. The Planning Board recessed from 9:28 P.M. to 9:40 P.M. City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes –September 9, 2009 - Page 14 of 20  09.039 Market Center at Railroad Place, Railroad Place and Division Street This is a public hearing on a 2-lot subdivision in a Transect-6 Urban Core District. Clifford Van Wagner stated that tonight’s discussion will be about a 2-lot subdivision, then the Planning Board will request Lead Agency Status for Site Plan review with the Design Review Commission. Appearing before the Board was Mike Ingersoll, Partner with the LA group, representing this project. He indicated that they will be taking the Board and audience through their thought process and the project. They know no action can be taken at this time, but they hope that the SEQR process can be initiated. He said this is a Site Plan review and a Subdivision application. Photographs were presented of the area from as early as 1959. Sonny Bonocio, President of Bonocio Construction and the applicant, spoke about some myths that have been heard. He stated that meetings have been held, or will be held, with all of the adjacent neighbors. Sonny stated that Price Chopper is very excited about staying on the site. He indicated that the market will stay operational in the existing location during construction, then it will move to the new location, providing seamless services to Saratoga. He said that Bonocio will be building new market rate rental units, to provide a mix of different types of housing. The City park on the corner will stay, which will become a full-time right-of-way available as civic space in perpetuity for the residents of Saratoga. Mike Ingersoll showed a slide of the 2.8-acre site, which is in the Transect-6 Zone. Within that zone, buildings can be as much as 70 feet tall and 80% of the frontage must be built out within zero to 12 feet of the front line. There is no off-street parking required in this zone. The site is comprised of 2 lots, one is for the existing store and the other is for the proposed project. The existing building is more than 24,000 square feet. They are proposing 124 apartments with commercial space approximately exactly the same as the Price Chopper is today, with parking for 151 cars on the site. He said the subdivision is essential to retain the store, and possibly some day that building will be modified. The focus of the subdivision is to create 2 lots, with shared access easements. All of the Site Plans are within the 1.8 acres. Mike Ingersoll showed a mass and scale rendering of the proposed new building. The building is concave where the existing park is located. There would be an entrance/exit where the existing curb cut is now. There would be room for an additional up to 3 commercial spaces on the first floor. Another exit on Division Street will be used for truck deliveries only. 76 parking spots will be under cover year round, which will be a benefit because there is no snow removal in those areas. Sonny Bonocio said they will be keeping the market entrance close to the existing entrance and away from the residential core and park. Mike said the first floor follows the street line, but the 2nd floor and above are pulled back to preserve the view of Franklin Square as much as possible. Parking is on a single deck above the first floor, which is only about a half story higher than the properties behind. They do not plan on digging into the ground. Mike Ingersoll said they will remove the crooked utility pole and will be working with National Grid to bury the overhead wires underground. They will build a storm water system where there is no system right now. They will collect the water in the project area and also take the water from Division Street, where there is an undersized capacity. There will be no increase in water, because it is all essentially paved now. They will either put in sand filters or treatment, or they City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes –September 9, 2009 - Page 15 of 20 can contribute money to a greater solution in the city somewhere else to solve storm water problems. They will also install a new sanitary sewer line which will tie into Church Street. These plans were done in coordination with the Engineering and Public Works Departments. He said they are very aware of respecting the Franklin Square area. Everything they are asking for requires no variance. He said a couple of years ago the City had hired a firm to look a massing diagrams and what the proper height should be based on street corridors. In other projects that have been approved, even though it is not adopted, this is a guideline they have been trying to adhere to. George Olsen, Architect, presented illustrations that have been prepared for the Design Review Commission, which illustrate the massing on the street. On the south side there is a 10-foot setback shown on the massing diagrams from a few years ago. What they have chosen to do on the new building is to open that up, so they have bumped back that recommended street line, so the face of the building from the second floor and up has been stepped way back. Along Railroad Place the whole building would be stepped back from the recommended street line. At the street level they show a loggia the entire length of the building, similar to the old railroad depot that was on Railroad Place. The parking garage deck will be sloped back to reduce the size of the side wall along the neighborhood, which could be a living/growing wall of hedge about 10 to 12 feet high. Sonny Bonocio said they did not take lightly the fact that this was adjacent to a neighborhood and a lot of time went into the design of the deck. He said they are planning to build on about 40% of the allowable building space on the site. Mike Ingersoll said the geometry of Railroad Place allows them to reduce the width of the street and thereby pedestrian crossing by 30% to 50%, for a much safer condition. Sonny Bonocio indicated that also allows for more green space to be added. Sonny Bonocio said the park belonged to the Golub Corporation and the yellow building in the park belongs to Bob Israel. There is a year-to-year $1 lease with the City, which he inherited. The building came from Rock City Falls and has no significance in the City of Saratoga Springs. It was moved there when there was nothing on that corner. Sonny built the stairs, concrete work, bench and plantings in conjunction with financial donations made by John Wise and Mr. Allerdice. Mr. Israel may want to move the building to the other side of the street. A committee is being formed to come to the City with the final plans. Mike Ingersoll presented the proposed public plaza drawing, which could reflect some acknowledgement of the old movie and book, Saratoga Trunk, or the old train station. They could pull some of the idea of the train pavement all the way down the block to a gathering spot with perhaps seating walls, plantings, or a coffee shop under cover. The veterans’ plaque would be maintained in the park. Bill Sweet, Vice-President of Engineering and Construction for Price Chopper, said they are truly excited about this project, which will be the kick-off of an “alternate store format”. He said across the country there is a trend to develop urban lifestyle center style type stores. As more people are moving into downtown areas, they need to meet that demand. This will be the first of its kind in the 6 states they do business in. Another corporate initiative is that all new construction is all minimally certified as “Silver” under USGBC LEEDS guidelines. They are incorporating microturbines, fuel cells, auto-dimming ballusts on lighting and motion sensors on coolers, which utilize LED lighting. As part of their commitment to energy conservation and reduction of refrigerant loss, they were awarded a “Green Chill Award” by the EPA. He said this is the highest honor to be bestowed on a grocery store. This new store will be 100% sustainable design, recycled product, low VOCs, and utilize energy conservation. In conjunction with Bonocio Construction, they will be looking at LEEDS certification potentially for the entire building, but at a minimum it will be the first floor commercial space. He said the design will City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes –September 9, 2009 - Page 16 of 20 incorporate a lot of the historic architectural detail that is part of Saratoga. The building will be pedestrian friendly and be connected back to the neighborhoods. Sonny Bonocio said they are working on LEEDS guidelines in conjunction with Price Chopper. They have to get rid of heat through refrigeration, so they can incorporate radiant sidewalks that don’t require boilers and furnaces. He said he is very excited to be working with Price Chopper on this new format in Saratoga Springs. Sonny Bonocio said they are working with Saratoga Hospital to provide affordable housing for hospital employees. The program will be run through their Human Resources Department. The goal is to assist with retainage and recruitment to keep people here at a high level for our hospital. Angelo Calbone, President of Saratoga Hospital, stated that they are pleased and excited about this opportunity. They employee over 1,800 people, and in some years they have hired up to 400 people in one year. Retention of employees is important as well as recruitment. Their needs range from affordable housing for lower paid employees who need to live close to the hospital, up to recruitment of select people who want to quickly move into the community and have access to housing within the city as rentals. He said having someone from the community approach them with an idea like this is perfect. He indicated that the response from some hospital employees about the concept has been very positive. He said they remain interested to see this work its way through the process. Sonny Bonocio said this isn’t a trendy grocery store. He is very proud to keep all of the work on his projects local. He said this would retain and improve the civic space, which stays with the City. The site provides parking, even though it is not required by zoning. No public funding or financing is required, they are not asking for any relief, stimulus or bonuses for any affordability. They are working under the 70-foot line at 40% of the site, which is all private financing. He said the City budget can use a boost, so the sales tax on construction materials stays local and then there are sales tax dollars on the final project. He said the taxes collected will be 12 times what they currently are on that site when the project is complete. They will provide new water lines, sewer lines, moving the overhead power lines, which were pretty much designed with the Department of Public Works and the Engineering Department, so not much should come out in technical issues. Sonny Bonocio said there was a group called “Team Saratoga” that responded to 1,300 questions, with the top 3 concerns being: other affordable options to live in downtown Saratoga; a good new market; and a theatre. He said they are happy to have ticked off 2 of these in one project. He said they hope to break ground in the spring, and because all the units will be standard layouts, the 33 to 34-month process typical for his other buildings will go down to about a 14-month process. He said he’s had great feedback from adjacent neighbors and he has adjusted some things as a result of their comments. A meeting with the Preservation Foundation hasn’t happened because of vacation times and the applicants not being ready, but they will set something up with them. Clifford Van Wagner said there are two applications for this project, which will run simultaneously, for a Subdivision and Site Plan review, which cannot be voted on tonight. The Planning Board needs to first vote to initiate coordinated review with the DRC and request Lead Agency status, then the DRC has 30 days to respond. He said even though the Public Hearing is for the Subdivision only, he encourages comments kept to about 2 to 3 minutes based on the number of people present. If somebody says exactly what you plan to say, once is certainly City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes –September 9, 2009 - Page 17 of 20 enough. All comments are being recorded. He said this is one of many opportunities. He requested speakers give their name and address for the record and use the microphone. PUBLIC HEARING: Mike Mastropietro, 59 Railroad Place, said he was at the meeting with Mr. Bonocio, and it was a good meeting. He indicated he would say most of the people in his building are not against the project. He would like to see two more poles in the square be put underground. He said last week the City did a project on South Broadway with raised beds and decorative lighting, but the poles are still there, which is noticeable. Caroline Stem, 55 Catherine Street, said that she has been really happy with what she’s seen. She’s had previous discussions with Sonny and Mr. Golub, and she is happy the market will not be lost, along with all the accommodations that are being made. Her first concern is regarding the storm water management system. She said there are green ways of dealing with that, rather than dumping it down into the system. Also, the market looks great, but she would like to see something affordable for downtown residents, like what is currently available at the existing Price Chopper. Mark Fendel, 56 Church Street, asked what will happen to the existing Price Chopper building. Sonny Bonocio said when they do the subdivision, nothing will be done with that under this action. He said they can’t do anything until they come back to this Board, so it will stay as it exists during construction. He said a couple of years from now it could be a lot of different things. He said they don’t want to over-promise and under-deliver. He said when that project comes back to this Board it will be very transparent what they want to do. Mr. Fendel asked what they would do in a perfect world. Mike Ingersoll said they may adaptively reuse the building, but there is no specific plan. Gene Corsale said he will be working with the LA Group and Sonny Bonocio on relocating the veterans’ plaque to an appropriate place. He read the words on the plaque: “Dedicated in honor of those who served and sacrificed with courage and dignity and patriotism during the Afghanistan/Iraq wars and the global war on terrorism.” He said the plaque was dedicated 2 years ago and this Friday there will be a remembrance program there at 10:00 A.M. He said Sonny and Bob Israel provided all the funding for that plaque. He said Sonny’s brother also provided the base and _______ restoration company in Albany attached the plaque to the stone pro bono. Samantha Bosshart, Executive Director of the Saratoga Springs Preservation Foundation, thanked Sonny for reaching out to the Foundation. She said the Foundation had asked for additional information, but were not able to coordinate that in time for this meeting due to schedules. She said she informed Sonny that there were some initial concerns and they will be looking at the information presented tonight before they make their final comments. She wants to make the Planning Board aware that they will be looking at the preservation of the viewsheds/siteline along Division Street to the historic Franklin Square district, the mass of the building and parking structure as they relate to the size of the existing nearby historic structures, and the compatible design elements of the new project with features that will compliment the historic adjacent structures. She said they are looking forward to working with Sonny on this project, and they support the use of affordable market rate housing along with keeping the Price Chopper downtown. City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes –September 9, 2009 - Page 18 of 20 Kyle York, 59 Railroad Place, said this project is in his back yard. He said his daily comings and goings will be affected by everything here, and his family will be affected by the traffic, construction, noise, and dust. He said he thinks this is really cool. He said it is fantastic design and it is an opportunity for planners to give the future of this city something great and enduring. He said this will be a great city street wall, and he would love to see Price Chopper be the last piece of it. He said the arcade will bring life to it, there will be a retail presence, and it is smart urban design. He said it is a gift to the entire city, an it is remarkable that there is no funding sought by anybody. He said the faith in the city speaks volumes about the people and boards involved and the good that will come of it. Cliff Van Wagner said there will be plenty of additional opportunities for public comment as this project reappears at this table. Jamin Totino said a written submission to the Board is equal to speaking at a meeting and will be entered into the record. Jackie Hakes read a letter from Margaret and Tom Roohan, dated September 8, received today. The letter states that apartments are sorely needed and a new market will be a welcome change. Further, as neighbors at 28 and 32 Clinton Street, they wholeheartedly support the plans. Jamin Totino asked about a contractual relationship with Price Chopper and for what length of time that might exist. Sonny Bonocio said he owns the entire site and he has a lease agreement for the existing facility with Price Chopper for a set amount of time. He said the goal is to have them move to the new facility. Jamin said a lot of this is revolving around the existence of a grocery store in that site, so is there a guarantee that there will be a Price Chopper there 15 years from now. Bill Sweet said they will not entertain a lease for less than 20 years, which is customary for them. Sonny said they will be making a substantial investment along with them, so it will be there long-term. DECISION: Dan Gaba made a motion to initiate SEQR coordinated review, with the Planning Board requesting to be Lead Agency. Jamin Totino seconded. Vote: Jamin Totino, in favor; Amy Durland, in favor; Michael Perkins, in favor; Laura Rappaport, in favor; Philip Klein, in favor; Dan Gaba, in favor; Clifford Van Wagner, in favor. Motion Carries 7-0.  09.040 Market Center at Railroad Place, Railroad Place and Division Street This is a Site Plan review of a multi-use building in a Transect-6 Urban Core District. The Planning Board has requested Lead Agency status for Site Plan review and will await a response from the Design Review Commission. City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes –September 9, 2009 - Page 19 of 20 APPROVAL OF MINUTES Philip Klein made a motion to approve the July 22, 2009 minutes with submitted changes. Laura Rappaport seconded. All in favor.. NEXT MEETING The next Planning Board meeting is scheduled for September 23, 2009 at 7:00 P.M. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business, Clifford Van Wagner adjourned the meeting at 10:52 P.M. Respectfully submitted, Kathleen Livsey Recording Secretary Adopted: October 28, 2009 City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes –September 9, 2009 - Page 20 of 20