Planning Board

PLANNING BOARD MINUTES WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 10, 2010 7:00 P.M. CITY COUNCIL ROOM PRESENT: Clifford Van Wagner, Chair; Jamin Totino, Vice-Chair; Amy Durland; Philip Klein; Dan Gaba, Michael Perkins ABSENT: Suzanne Cleary; Philip Klein STAFF: Jaclyn Hakes, Principal Planner CALL TO ORDER Chair Clifford Van Wagner called the meeting to order at 7:05 P.M. SALUTE TO THE FLAG ANNOUNCEMENT OF RECORDING OF PROCEEDING Clifford Van Wagner said the proceedings of this meeting are being taped for the benefit of the secretary. Because the minutes are not a verbatim record of the proceedings, the minutes are not a word-for-word transcript of the recording. REPORT ON ADMINISTRATIVE ACTIONS BY THE CHAIR There are no actions by the chair. POSTPONED PROJECTS 09.053 McKENZIE’S WAY SUBDIVISION-PART 1, East Broadway, continuation of public hearing on a 6-lot subdivision in an Urban Residential-2 District. Adjourned to February 24, 2010. 09.054 McKENZIE’S WAY SUBDIVISION-PART 2, Cleveland Avenue, continuation of public hearing on a 6-lot subdivision in an Urban Residential-2 District. Adjourned to February 24, 2010. 10.007 GRIDLEY STREET STABLES C/O KENNETH McPEEK RACING STABLES, INC., Gridley Street at Jefferson Street, site plan review for a horse barn in the Institutional Horse Track Related District. Adjourned to February 24, 2010. UPCOMING SCHEDULE The next Planning Board agenda workshop will be held on Monday. February 22, 2010 @ 5 PM. The next Planning Board meeting will be held on Wednesday, February 24, 2010 @ 7:00 PM. PRIVILEGE OF THE FLOOR Clifford Van Wagner gave this opportunity to allow citizens to address planning issues not on the scheduled agenda. No one. APPLICATIONS: 1. 10.005 LANDS OF THP CUSTOM BUILDERS SUBDIVISION, Southeast corner of Taylor Street and Doten Avenue, public hearing of 2 lot subdivision in the Urban Residenrial -2 District. Chairman Van Wagner stated this is a fairly simple two lot subdivision. It is an unlisted action. The applicant has met with staff, the City Engineer, and DPW have looked at this. Duane Rabideau, from VanGuilder and Associates from Clifton Park representing THP Custom Builders for their request for the two lot subdivision at the southeast corner of Doten and Taylor. They want to subdivide the single family residential lot that exists on the site and create two 8200 square foot lots that will now face onto to Taylor Street. They are proposing to extend the sidewalks on the Witts subdivision out to Doton. Also, convey to the City of Saratoga Springs on Taylor Street and also on Doton Avenue the right of ways up to 55 feet wide. Basically they will be tied into the Public Sewer. The house on Taylor Street will have the utilities tie into the water and sewer on Taylor, and the other house on the corner will tie into Doton. Ariel photos were distributed to the Board. Basically, as far as the trees are concerned, there is a strip of mature trees along Taylor Street which would be in front of these buildings. The position of those trees are not very good, however, there are some red oaks which can be saved, depending on the positioning of the driveways. We feel that this would actually be more than just the regular street trees. The trees will not affect the sidewalk because they are positioned between the sidewalk and the front of the house. Selectively thinned they could actually make a very nice vegetative mature buffer. On the Doton Avenue side we do not have any proposal regarding trees at this time. Jackie Hake informed the Board that the general requirements for subdivisons do require street trees. The distinction between street trees and the trees that Mr. Rabideau has identified are that street trees perform a different function than the trees on the property. They help to provide shade for pedestrians walking along the sidewalk and they create the feeling of an urban street, that is a recognizing characteristic of Saratoga. It is up to the Planning Board to determine whether or not you wish to waive that requirement on this subdivision because this could be a unique circumstance due to the existing trees. Along Taylor Street, i would suggest identifying as to what should remain as part of the future development. Again, part of the subdivison requirement are to include street trees. In the UR-2 in addtion to street trees, street lighting is required every 150 feet. Chairman Van Wagner informed the Board that they must come to an agreement regarding sidewalk trees, street lighting and curbs along Doten, before a permit can be issued. The City Engineer will determine the number and appropriate location of the street lights. City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – February 10, 2010 - Page 2 of 15 Amy Durland would not have an objection if the Board could help the applicant define what needs to be kept there to have those trees count toward the street trees on that side, not Doten. I personally think it is nice to have some mature trees in this neighborhood. It cries out for mature trees in this neighborhood. This again does not cover the street trees on Doten. Dan Gaba and Jamin Totino questioned if indeed these trees can be kept through the construction. Applicant feels that he cannot keep all the trees, but he can move the house back further from 12 feet to 17 feet back from the sidewalk in order to retain vegetation. Amy Durland questioned if the staff or board members could go out and take a look and make a reasonable assessment of which trees would be kept and then deal with this admnistratively. Regarding sidewalks and curbing Mr. Van Guilder questioned even though it is a corner lot where it seems to be that they would have to put in so much more sidewalk, there is not way to temper that somewhat. The board feels that all sidewalks must start somewhere. When subsequesnt development happens one sidewalk can hooked up to the next one and so the gridwork begins. Jamin Totino stated that there are other subdivisions down further that sidewalks are in and it starts to link all the pieces together. The applicant would like to building house #2 first, and requests that the sidewalks be placed after the construction of house #1 due to a cost factor and also that the sidewalks if placed before construction of house #1 could be damanaged due to construction vehicles, and hook ups with utlitites. These sidewalks would be completed prior to CO. This would also be a grading issue so that both lots could be graded together. Jackie Hakes informed the applicant and Mr. VanGuilder that all the conditions of subdivision must be met prior to receiving your CO. The way this would have to be handled is that you would be required to have 2 performance guarantees. Your ultimately phasing, it is a small project to phase, but what you are proposing is phasing. This might require two seperate performance guarantees, and letters of credit. This can be handled at the time the subdivision is signed. Chairman Van Wagner is requesting a consensus – the applicant move the houses back from 12 feet to 17 feet to retain existing trees on Taylor Street, however on Doten we would need street trees, street lighting to be determined by the staff of exact location, probably three or four street lights, and curbs and sidewalks on Doten but the understanding would be that if we could seperate into lot 1 and lot 2 you would have two seperate projects. Jamin Totino questioned on Taylor there would be sidewalks and the applicant is looking for flexibility on the trees. With the street trees on Taylor it looks like most of them are on lot 2. Mr. VanGuilder stated that there are more on lot 2 but the strip is 20 feet wide on lot 1 also. It is almost like a hedgerow. Jamin asked Jackie Hakes how far back the houses are set on the other subdivision – how will that look compared to the others. Mr. VanGuilder informed the Board that the trees do break up the site line. You cannot determine how far back the houses. Jackie Hakes informed the Board of a few relatively minor comments from Public Works and the City Engineer. City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – February 10, 2010 - Page 3 of 15  Label size, type and invert of all utilities. Revise cost estimates. Add Standard city Notes. DPW for street addresses Include construction and erosion control details. Add Planning Board project number to plans These items can be provided to the agent/applicant in a digital format to make things easier and the others can be worked out with Jackie Hakes and City Engineer Paul Male. Any questions or comments from the Board? Hearing none. PUBLIC COMMENT: Anyone in the audience who wishes to comment on the request regarding the 2 lot subdivision on Doten and Taylor. Hearing none. 7:30 PM Close the Public Hearing. SEQRA REVIEW: 1. No 2. No 3. no 4. no 5. no 6. no 7. no 8. no 9. no Jamin Totino based upon the information provided by the applicant in Part I of the SEQRA shortened environmental assessment form and analysis of the information provided and presented in Part II in SEQRA shortened environmental assessment form i find the project will not result in any large and important impacts and is therefore one that will not have significant adverse impact on the environment. Based on this I move to issue a SEQRA negative declaration for this action. Seconded by Dan Gaba. VOTE ON SEQRA: Jamin Totino–favor; Amy Durland-favor; Michael Perkings-favor; Dan Gaba-favor Clifford Van Wagner-favor. Motion carries 5-0. Absent: Philip Klein; Suzanne Cleary VOTE ON SUBDIVISION WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS: City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – February 10, 2010 - Page 4 of 15 Chairman Van Wagner states this application will be Phased and will require 2 letters of credit. We are looking at sidewalks, street trees and lights and curbs on Doten. Street lights on Taylor Street, staff and the chair will look at existing trees on Taylor to try to locate as many as possible to keep. Street lighting numbers to be determined by staff. Curbs on Taylor, move houses back from 12 to 17 feet to allow for existing trees on Taylor Street. PUBLIC COMMENT: Anyone wishing to comment on the subdivision applicant. Hearing none. Clifford Van Wagner entertained a motion for the subdivison with the condition which are now part of the minutes. Motion by Jamin Totino. Seconded by Dan Gaba. VOTE ON SUBDISION: Jamin Totino–favor; Amy Durland-favor; Michael Perkins-favor; Dan Gaba-favor Clifford Van Wagner-favor. Motion carries 5-0. Absent: Philip Klein; Suzanne Cleary 2. 10.004 HISTORIC DISTRICT EXPANSION – Request for advisory opinion to the City Council for nexpansion of the City’s historic district to align with the Broadway National Register District. Applicant Saratoga Spring Preservation Foundation (Samantha Bosshart, Executive Director) DISCLOSURES: None. ISSUES TO CONSIDER: This is an advisory opinion request a non-binding advisory opinion that the City Council has asked the Planning Board to offer. The actual vote will be by the City Council regardless of what the Planning Board finds. The City Council can disregard our advisory opinion. Simply put they can do what they wish. We are obligated unless there is relief offered to us by the applicant, we are obligated to submit an advisory opinion within 30 days of the request of the City Council which is dated January 25, 2010. Therefore two weeks from tonight is when we need to take a vote on this for the advisory opinion, unless on either side there is more information that is required or requested, and then we can request of the Preservation Foundation an extension and we will see how this application goes. Similar to the case we heard last month, we under Article XV are obligated to look at the following points. ARTICLE XV states “The Planning Board in its written report shall recommend favorably the adoption of any proposed change only if it meets the following conditions: City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – February 10, 2010 - Page 5 of 15  1. The revision is not contrary to the general purposes and intent of this chapter; and 2. The revision is accordant with the Comprehensive Plan. This is a request for the inclusion of 48 additional properties to be included. This should not be about any one or two particular parcels of land. This is a request for inclusion of 48 parcels into the Historic District. At this time I would like to ask Samantha Bosshart, Executive Director of the Saratoga Springs Preservation Distrct to make a presentation. Staff and Board will have opportunities to ask questions and try and clarify this anymore if necessary and then we will open up the public hearing. Introduction by Samantha Bosshart, Executive Director of the Saratoga Springs Preservation Foundation. Whose mission is to preserve and enchance the Architectural and Cultural Landscape heritage of Saratoga Springs. The proposal that you see tonight is to amend the boundaries of the City of Saratoga Springs Historic Zoning District to incorporate properties that are listed on the National Register of Historic Places. It does requires a text and map amendment to the existing Zoning Ordinance. The Planning Board will provide an advisory opinion and requires the City Council approval. The objective as stated is to match the boundaries of this particular area with the Local Historic Zoning District with the National Register of Historic Places. That would include portion of Carriage House Lane, Clement Avenue, Clinton Street, First Street, Fourth Street, Greenfield Avenue, State Street and Woodlaw Avenue. State and National Register of Historic Places designations is a list of individual buildings, sites, structures, objects, districts deemed important in American History, Culture, Architecture or Archeology. Designated by the New York State Office of Parks and Recreation and Historic Preservation and the National Park Service. It provides limited protection from adverse impacts of Federal or State funded projects. Property owners are eligible for both state and federal rehabilitation tax programs. It places no restrictions on property owners. However, it typically requires a majority of the property owners consent at the time of designation. Local Historic District designation demonstrates a commitment to preserving the city’s rich architectural heritage and helps to maintain Saratoga Springs reputation as the City of History, Health and Horses. It protects property owners from insensitive exterior alterations and appropriate new construction and/or demolition through review by the Design Review Commission. Thus protecting the property owners investment in their own property. Eligibile for the City’s property abatement program and does not regulate in kind repairs, exterior paint colors in residential districts or interior changes. It does not limit the use of property it’s use it regulated by the City’s Zoning ordinance. A slide show presentation was made. A number of property owners approached the Saratoga Springs Preservation Foundation with interest in expanding the local district. This area was identified in the 2001 Saratoa Springs Comprehensive Plan as an area to be included in the Local Historic Zoning District. Due to the effort needed to inform and educate owners the Foundation and the Foundation’s limited staff and resources is unable to undertake an expansion that woud include all of the properties listed on the National Register of Historic Places. This area contributes to the Architecture and Resort History of Saratoga Springs. City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – February 10, 2010 - Page 6 of 15 48 tax parcels and 42 structures, 34 of which have been identified as contributing and 8 non- contributing buildings with 43 property owners. In July of 2009 property owners approached the Foundation. In September 2009 a cover letter, color brochure and a prepaid postage response card was mailed to each property owner. In December 2009 a second mailing was sent to property owners who had no responded. This also included the same materials as the first. At the time of our application 14 owners supported our amendment, 5 voiced opposition, and 24 had not yer responded. Amy Durland questioned if there is any interest in the West Side Historic District. Samantha Bosshart informed the Board that there has been some interest but not at quite this point. Jamin Totino reiterated that the Preservation Foundation is starting with this area because of interest in this particular neighborhood requested it. Grant application is awaiting a contract from the City of Saratoga to rewrite the City’s Historic Zoning District. Part of this application is to adhere to or move forward and adopted plan by the City to move forward with Historic Preservation by Action 2.4.2 to enact local legislation to include all properties are ineligible for state and national registry of historic places. Jamin questioned in regard to the advisory opinion in our Agenda notes it specifically refers to the ordinance why does it not address this plan. Jackie Hakes explained that part of what is outlined in Zoning Ordinance for the Planning Board to review for an advisory opinion are those two criteria that relates back to the Zoning Ordinance and the Comprehensive Plan. This document is neither one of those but it is a policy document. So if the Planning Board wished to in addition to evaluate this criteria outlined in the Zoning Ordinance consider other policy documents which have also been adopted by the City Council. There are other goals and action items which are associated with this but the one mentioned is the most specific. Additional information will be provided to the Board with regard to other Action items which were just located this date. The grant is well over $14,000 and its intent is to rewrite the Historic Zoning Ordinance which when implemented will have a positive impact on property owners in the neighborhoods. This grant will be used to bring the Historic Review Ordinance into compliance with the model ordinance suggested by the state. Amy Durland wishes to inform the Board that she is in the interest of disclosure wishes to Mention that she is a member of Saratoga Springs Historic Preservation Foundation. Amy is not on the board and has no decision making role with the organization, just wishes to disclose membeship for the record. Chairman Van Wagner informed the audience that due to the large number of people present please limit your comments to 5 minutes so all can have an opportunity to be heard. PUBLIC HEARING OPENED AT 8:03 P.M. City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – February 10, 2010 - Page 7 of 15 James Levine, 2 Clement Avenue, Saratoga Springs, New York. Mr. Levine has a house in the proposed expanded historic district. Mr. Levine noticed that there were 4 amendments to this expansions since 1982 locally. This appears to contradict the statement of its in line with what state and public policy is in Saratoga Springs for the desire of the community. Of the 43 houses and of those 43 houses, 34 have been identified. Questioned if the owners of the properties have been asked to vote and it will make a determination in the Council. I received the letter and it simply stated if you agree with this write us. It was rather ambiguous. Questioned pros and cons, and how someone who does not own the property make a decision what is done on that property dimish the market value. It viewing the slide of homes, which are beautiful, it seems the individual property owners have taken it upon themselves to preserve them and it brings up the question why we need someone to tell us how to do this in the future. I really strongly object on a philosophical basis where somebody is trying to pass an ordinance that has only been needed four times since 1985 and it is being said it is needed now. This is the first time it is being done in a residential district and directly affecting the property owner. Most of it has been in a Commercial district at a time when this community was going under and i don’t understand why when you look at the homes do we need somebody else telling us what to do with our own homes, when in fact any outside control over your property is a diminishing of it’s property value. It is really taking away something I have invested. Katherine Benaquisto, 10 Clement Avenue, Saratoga Springs, New York. My husband and I have resided in this neighborhood for 35 years. We suppor the proposal to expand the North Broadway District. We have been very fortunate to have responsible homeowners who have worked with the Preservation Society, Land Use Boards and personnel at City Hall, have basically preserved the integrity of this neighborhood. Without an umbrella of protection these properties are dealt with one at a time. This becomes very burdensome and unfortunately falls on the surrounding property owners. As a result this process becomes very frustrating, time consuming, costly and not to mention leaving the City open for a discriminatory lawsuit. Many of these proposed structures which predate the North Broadway homes are architecturally significant and contributing structures to the overall economic stability of this City. We view this amendment as a community project that will not only benefit the individual homeowner but the community at large. Location the number one determining factor when purchasing a home is just as critical to the value of the property as the structure itself. Hence, if we do not preserve the neighborhoods our property values will deterioriate. Our homes are mere threads of this historic fabric and if we allow demolition, and/or insensitive building we will unravel a thread at a time. We need to focus long term. And recognize that we have a unique historic neighborhood which must be preserved for future generations. For thes reasons I ask the Planning Board grant a favorable advisory opinion pertaining to this amendment. Leo Weiser, 10 Carriage House Lane, Saratoga Springs, New York. I am sharing with the folks on the Planning Board and old picture from the 1930’s that came from the Bolster Collection which was given to me some time ago by the Historical Society. What is important to note is that while I have been supportive of lots of things that this Preservation Foundation has done and I can’t tell you on how many occasions my home has hosted fall house tours, and candle light tours and even a fund raiser for the Preservation Foundation we were in fact given an award for new paint colors and tuning up the house, so we certainly support that. When I first received the letter from the Preservation Foundation, I agreed that I would support the designation or encourage the expansion of the historic district. Now, I am withdrawing my supoort of that application. There are things that would not be permitted under the new Historic Plan. Notably, there is a new chimney for a fireplace, I live in a carriage house and that it is adaptive use. It was a barn and now it is a residence. Some changes were necessary. Those changes have occurred over a forty year period of time. There is a lot of history here. City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – February 10, 2010 - Page 8 of 15 Windows on the first floor that are longer than the ones in the photograph, so there could be light in the kitchen. On the back of the house there is a deck. There are also some other eaves which were added to protect people upon entering the house through one of the main doorways. These are changes that happened, which we feel were necessary to make it a residence a beautiful residence and one that has welcomed many people in the community on these tours. But I believe those change might have been disallowed and I am not certain. I have not changed the footprint of the building. Kept the stucco, even though it is expensive to do so. I think there are constraints that are going to be placed on people who want to remodel and renovate and restore their homes that will make it onorous for the building owners and I think that that is an imporant consideration. Again I am withdrawing my support of the expansion. Steve Rowland, 9 Salem Drive, Saratoga Springs, New York. Here tonight on behalf of the Design Review Commission. Mr. Rowland has been a member of the DRC for quite a long time some of you may not know I am now the newly elected chair. I definitely want to come and voice the support of the DRC for this legislation change. We are very much in favor ot if. There is sometimes a perception of the DRC that they like to spend people’s money and being a road block in doing what they want to do to their home. I think history would show that we have been as compromising and still being effective in what we are trying to do with many applicants. These people are absolutely right that their homes and their neighborhood is gorgeous. That is the job that we try to do is to maintain that for the long term community benefit. I do feel that has a dramatic impact on protecting peoples property values. We have a group of people here tonight that are very passionate about very beautiful homes and for very good reason. Some of these people may not be here in 10 or 15 years and somebody else may buy that home that does not have that same passion. That is what we are here to protect. That those property values aren’t impacting by an owner that might not be quite as sympathetic or have that labor of love to maintain these homes. The DRC has found that many of the applicant that come to us that are already in historic districts have either been in those homes for a long period of time and they do have that labor of love and want to maintain that and they don’t normally take too much exception to what we feel is important because they have the same values in mind. We have also found that owners that have bought houses in historic districts have bought them mainly because it is in a historic district, and they share that value. It is another level of review capacity that property owners are put through but I do feel that a properly prepared applicant who understand the process a little and is willing to work with us will find that we are very accomodating and easy to work with group of individuals. We have a lot of people who have come before us over the years that may not have the benefit of a design professional working on their behalf, frequently this is a person who is doing some of the work themselves because they enjoy or they are hiring smaller contractors that have the craftsman type work ethic to do these types of things. What they gain from the DRC is a tremendous wealth of free advice. Members who have completed many historic projects in this City and have saved if not completely brought back to life some historic properties in the City. Ed Amia, 219 Woodlawn Avenue, Saratoga Springs, New York. The document which was referred to as the working plan I believe who produced that? Mr. Totino answered the City Council, passed in 2001. This came from the Historic Preservation Plan Committee, done in consultation with Neal Larson and Associates. I agree it is a lovely neighborhood, my house was a wreck when I bought it 26 years ago. We have invested a great deal of time and money and tried to make it as nice as it is today. I agree that the homeowners in that neighborhood as a rule have invested of themselves equally and I would also point out that there are buildings currently existing within the proposed expansion for which that is not true. I support the expansion. Peter Saxton, 1 First Street, Saratoga Springs, New York. I have lived there for 60 years and while not the oldest person in the area residency wise, I am not too far away. To put my City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – February 10, 2010 - Page 9 of 15 feelings into perspective as strongly as I can I am vehemently oppposed to this new zoning proposal. There is one aspect that bothers me greatly. I feel that this proposal is strickly a knee jerk reaction. The Preservation Foundation wants to prevent a property owner from exercising his rights to do as he wants with his own personal property. In order to accomplish this the Foundation has asked the City to give them control over 48 lots owned by 43 different individuals. I know for a fact, that we were not all asked and just possibly very few were asked before this proposal was put forth, if we were even interested. We found out that we were being included via correspondence mailed to us. With this was included a card with basically one alternative. There was a space next to a word yes. There was also a space next to the request for more information. There was no place for a no response. Just the very idea that a proposal of this magnitude could even be presented without first conducting a survey of all concerned proprety owners seems proposterous to me. This group of unelected people has an agenda of their own. I feel it is not in the best interests of the majority. It is their own personal likes and dislikes. As a little side note I bet there are some property owners already in other city historical districts that would opt out if they were aware of the problems that will face them if they wanted to remodel their homes. The last time I checked we still in a democratic society where we should have the right to do as we want as long as we do not infringe on our neighbors rights. That situation is controlled by the Saratoga Springs Planning Board. In closing I want it to be known that as a property owner, taxpayer and lifelong city resident I will do everything necessary to prevent this proposal from being enacted. To put it bluntly as I stated 16 years ago when I had to argue for my rights another time. What don’t you understand about the word no. Ed Sadler, 19 Russell Street, Saratoga Springs, New York. I probably am the longest living person in that area in the same house. My great grandfather built the house in 1890. It has been in my family ever since. It is not a beautiful house like these million dollar homes you are looking at. The small person that you are trying to put into this district I do not see even being addressed here. I have got a house that is a two story. It is a nice house. It is kept up. There is no way I am going to be able to keep that up to the requirements of the historical society when it grows in the next district and encompasses my house. I am just outisde this district but about 15 years ago there was a proposal similar to this for that whole side of town. They wanted to make the whole area a historical district. It was voted down, withdrawn. Something happened and it never went through. The small people in the area got their vote out, they talked to everybody and it failed. My fear is that this is the starting point and the historic society is going to keep going until they get the whole town in here. There has to be some way that an individual if they want to have their home on the historic registry they could do it themself. They do not have to be told to do something. Please think about the little person. Gary Hasbrouck, 36 State Street, Saratoga Springs, New York. For full disclosure I am a member of the Zoning Board of Appeals for the City of Saratoga Springs, New York. I am speaking tonight personally, not for the ZBA. My wife and I walk up in this neighborhood quite frequetly. I was relieved to learn that our house is not included in this area. I commend the people who have preserved their houses as nicely as they have done. We walked and watched firsthand as one particular house on Clement was remodeled recently and have enjoyed walking through these neighborhoods and appreciate the hard work and money that the people have put into their homes. This is the point. The people have decided to do this. They do not need an additional layer looking over their shoulders saying what to do or how to do it a little bit better. I believe that a person of means who owns a house like this anywhere from $750,000 to a million dollar home and I am probably way off on that. I trust that person that they are going to preserve their house to the best means possible. What my concern is similar to the gentleman who just spoke. Today it is this area. In a couple of years who knows maybe it moves down City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – February 10, 2010 - Page 10 of 15 further and you are going to start encompassing a lot of people who I do not have the fanciest house on the block but I do plan on making improvements to it. I would hate to have the cost of my improvements go up 15 – 20- 25% added on because I could not install an energy efficient vinyl window in my house, that I would have to go with wood. That I wouldn’t be abe to put the shingle roof on that I would have to put slate. That I wouldn’t be able to put certain architectural features on my house that I would deem as the homeowner as the person who is writing the check on this pleasant to my look. I would have to consult with various other members in the community on a board or something to determine what they felt was the best thing. As a ZBA member, I see this I sit in the chair. I see what these people who sit before us the hoops that they have to jump through just to get a simple variance to do something with their property that they want to do. I feel for those people. It shouldn’t be a popularity contest – the old saying what’s right isn’t always popular and what’s popular isn’t always right. Expansion of the historic district may or may not be popular but I don’t believe that its’ right because these people have shown that they are better stewards of their own property than anyother organization of group of individuals sitting deciding what is best for the community. We need to get back to preserving these property owners private property rights and not expand this historic district. David Chew, Cheif Operating Manager of 18 Alger Street, Saratoga Springs, New York We just spent $1.2 million dollars on that restoration project. Rather completing gutting it right down to the shell, and completely rebuilding it to the beautiful piece of architecture it is today. I designed it, I built it they are in love with it and so I am in favor in their corner. Many people are believing that their liberties as private property owners are being trampled on. It may not be the case but it certainly is the feeling it is the impression and you all received my four page letter regarding some of my own experiences and personal concerns. One of the things I would really like for this board to recognize that there is a way that I believe that as the City Council and the Preservation Foundation can recognize there is a different method of approach to preserving historic sites in Saratoga Springs. Since April in May of last year I have been trying to communicate this and I have not gotten a response until later this afternoon and last Sunday. The historic design review the national register has no consent of the property owner, and without any knowledge of the property owner. It is done. The method of preservation is what we need to focus on. Everyone who owns a home up there loves history, loves architecture. It’s clear from the work they have done. The carriage house that I completely remodeled and designed was my great grandfathers brothers. It has a very close history to me. Please find other methods of helping people to preserve their homes, make it a viable plan. Make it something that everyone wishes to do. I would like the City Council to put this petition away and bring all the parties together who are really serious about preservation and find a new method of approach versus coming in and say let’s rezone. Amy Durland requested Mr. Chew to resubmit his letter to the City Planner so she could share it with the Planning Board. Robert Courtney, 55 Greenfield Avenue, Saratoga Springs, New York. My wife and I previously owned 14 Clement Avenue. As you can see we are good stewards of the properties entrusted to us. We believe in preservation, we support the Preservation Society. We are 1005 against any further legislation that would put another layer of government intervention in what we do. We obviously, if you look at all the home there I can say everything that has been said before, but I don’t need to. This neighborhood knows what they are doing. Majority of the neighborhood does not want it. We would be happy to work with the preservation society to look at other ways to do this if individual properties want to do this. That’s great. I bought a historic home but I didn’t buy a home in a Historic District. We have spent a lot of money on City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – February 10, 2010 - Page 11 of 15 what we have now. I don’t believe that adding one more layer is going to help anything with out neighborhood at all. Jim Gold, 199 Woodlawn Avenue, Saratoga Springs, New York. My wife and I live at 199 Woodlawn Avenue, a property we purchased in 1987 and renovated as our residence. Constructed in 1897 as a carriage building for 655 North Broadway. Our property continued to serve as a private stable until the 1940’s. From the 1960’s to the 1980’s it functioned as a small storage facility for a downtown business. Unimproved at the time of our purchase we cleared truckloads of vegetation and debris, restored the exterior and converted the interiior into a residence. Our house does not stand alone however, it is part of an area of well maintained historic buildings many with direct links to North Broadway and the former Woodlawn estate. While we have made Woodlawn Avenue our home for over 20 years we see increased challenges to the preservation of this neighborhood. Including but not limited to potential teardowns. One of the distinguishing and often lauded characteristics of our City is the significance of this residential, institutional and commercial architecture, and the integrity of its neighborhoods. Be they on the east or west side, downtown Union Avenue or North Broadway each neighborhood has a personality and a story that contributes to this community’s rich heritage. The area to the west of North Broadway is a neighborhood with a special story that deserves the beneifts and the protection afforded by local historic zoning district designation. I urge the members of the Planning Board to give this application a favorable recommendation and refer back to the City Council for further action. To do anything less would be contrary to well established city policy. John Carusone, I represent the owners of 23 Greenfield Avenue, LLC, and also speaking on behalf of Stella Thayer who owns property at 210 Woodlawn Avenue. Both of these people are strongly opposed to the expansion of the historic district. The City back some years was responsible for the destruction of some of the City through urban renewal. Finally, things started to turn around. The point here is that preservation is largely a matter of economics. You cannot by imposition of some law make people preserve their properties. It has to work economically. If you are on a national register there were and maybe still are some things available to you by way of grants or tax credits. These people who live in this neighborhood have largely done what they have done because they wanted to do it. They did it without any help from any other agencies or any grant monies or anything else. They just did it. Which I think probably the only way that historic preservation can really work if the people are willing to do it themselves. If you think about imposing on a neighborhood a set of laws which a lot of people don’t want perhaps a majority don’t want I think you have think long and hard about doing that. Skidmore is a little bit problematic for a number of reasons, 13 -15 acres of vacant land and why you would include Skidmore in a very awkward position is beyond me. If one does the calculations on how to get a super majority where the owners of 20% of the affected land having Skidmore in there makes a big difference. They are not in the practice of building historic buildings. Laws should not be passed just to pass them. There should be a need that is articulated, and it should be clear and I haven’t seen that need demonstrated here. Trudy Smith, 200 Woodlawn Avenue, Saratoga Springs, New York. I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Preservation Foundation for its hard work and dedication to preserving the unique history and architecture of Saratoga Springs. My husband and I moved to Saratoga Springs about fifteen years ago and in part because we appreciate its beautiful 19th century architecture. We live in one of the homes included in the proposed district for expansion. We are totally in favor of it, and really feel that it is imprortant than ever that Saratoga preserve its rich architectural heritage. Our home is not by any means a million dollar house but we still feel very proud of it and we would like to protect it. Because somebody who comes in and buys it City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – February 10, 2010 - Page 12 of 15 after we leave the planet, maynot have the same ideas. They may want to tear it down and put something entirely inappropriate in its place. It’s wonderful that everyone has taken such good care of their homes, but you can’t ever tell what the person who buys that house from you has in mind. The historic designation is a very important one. Linda LeTendre, 34 Greenfield Avenue, Saratoga Springs, New York. I wanted to voice my suppport for the district because while we have some incredible property owners. My concern is one that is happening to property owners across the United States is that there are people tearing down 2 million dollar homes to build a 10 million dollar home, because they want to live in that neighborhood. The homes that we have already lost in that neighborhood you might see this in a different light. I guarantee that if we do not have a Historic District we will lose more homes out of that neighborhood. Once their gone, that’s it. Mr. Van Wagner informed the group that the Board is going to do some more research. The Planning Board has the opportunity to utilize a consulting attorney that we have a buget for and for items like this we like to have a chat with him and go over some of the legal issues which to be honest with you is not how nice these houses are. There is no one here that would deny that. As we struggled with the Siro’s advisory opinion we will struggle with this one because it is what the Preservation Foundation has asked the City Council to do. We have not an easy task in front of us we know that but we don’t walk away from these things. We are leaving this hearing open we will hear this again in two weeks. There will not be public notification because the Public Hearing remains open. This will be on the agenda, if you folks would like to come back. Questions or comments from staff. Jackie Hake informed the Board that she has received written comments over the last several days and I do just want to identify them for the record. Also, perhaps because of the size of the audience they may not be familiar with the overall process after the Planning Board process. Perhaps identifying the long range steps for a Zoning Amendment Process. COMMENTS: Email Jim Martinez, no address listed – received January 26, 2010. Email Robert Courtney, 53 Greenfield Avenue – received February 4, 2010. Letter David Cheew, 18 Alger Street – received February 5, 2010. Letter Peter Saxton, 1 First Street – received February 5, 2010. Email Matt and Joan Smith, 137 State Street- received February 8, 2010. Email Suzanne Grande, 114 State Street – received February 8, 2010. Email Brian Ruder, 207 Woodlawn Avenue & 54 Mamaroneck Rd., Scarsdale – received February 8, 2010. Email Gary & Beth Harker, 6 Clement – received February 9, 2010. Email Ellery & Carolyn Willard, 24 Carriage House Lane-received February 9, 2010. Email Millicent & Myron Serling, 26 Carriage House Lane-received February 9, 2010. Email Virginia Ruder, 207 Woodlawn Avenue-received February 9, 2010. Email John Carusone, 491 Broadway-received February 9, 2010. Email John Carusone, representing Stella Thayer at 210 Woodlawn-received February 9, 2010 Email Robert Chauvin, 107 State Street – received February 9, 2010. Email Trudi Smith, 200 Woodlawn Avenue – received February 10, 2010. Email James Gold, 199 Woodlawn Avenue-received February 10, 2010. Email Emma Dodge Hanson & Marc Woodworth, 20 Fourth St – received February 10, 2010. City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – February 10, 2010 - Page 13 of 15 Letter Samantha Bosshart, Preservation Foundation – received Febraury 10. 2010. Letter Michael West, Skidmore College 815 North Broadway – received February 10, 2010. Any other comments should be directed to the Planning Board to my attention and I will be sure that the Board receives them. Identifying the Planning Board process: Planning Board must issue an advisory opinion to the City Council within the 30 day time frame. Which puts us to the next Planning Board Meeting February 26, 2010. At that point regardless whether or not it is a favorable or unfavorable advisory opinion to the City Council the City Council must then hold a formal Public Hearing and those of you that are adjacent to the properties that are being considered for this will receive a notice of that . Conduct a SEQRA reviwe – which is the State Environmental Quality Review Act. Referral from the Saratoga County Planning Board. The Legislataure is the only governing body that can vote either yeah or ney on this. Michael Perkins Planning Board member states that it is hard for the general public understand what we can factor in and what we cannot factor in the decisions. It is not a contest versus yes versus nos for the Board. There are a couple of different points that must be considered. There is however, an article in our Zoning Article XV that we must look at. There is a paragraph in there if you look at it on the website it is Article “J” there is a portion of text there that refers to protests and that does outline the process if you are oppposed to this that you can take, with the City Council not the Planning Board. Question from the audience. Not for Profit Organizations that come into our City and then present to the City Council a rezoning law if the Planning Board or City Council have a law that says anybody registered in the National Register has to have their homes placed in a local historic district, just because someone petitions that. Chairman Van Wagner replied No. Any questions or comments from the Board? None heard. Chairman Van Wagner asked Jackie Hakes what the agenda looks like for the next Planning Board Meeting scheduled on February 24, 2010. Five items currently on the agenda for the next meeting. Due to the fact that the people have spent quite a bit of time at this meeting this week tonight, this item will be #1 on the agenda in two weeks. Continue the Public Hearing. Thank you all for coming. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business, Clifford Van Wagner adjourned the meeting at City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – February 10, 2010 - Page 14 of 15  Respectfully submitted, Diane M. Buzanowski Recording Secretary Approved 7-0: March 10, 2010 City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – February 10, 2010 - Page 15 of 15