Planning Board

PLANNING BOARD MINUTES WEDNESDAY, MAY 11, 2011 7:00 P.M. CITY COUNCIL ROOM CALL TO ORDER: Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7:03 P.M. PRESENT: CLIFFORD VAN WAGNER, CHAIRMAN, AMY DURLAND, PHILIP KLEIN, DAN GABA, HOWARD PINSLEY, TOM LEWIS STAFF: Kate Maynard, Principal Planner, City of Saratoga Springs Mark Schactner, Counsel to the Planning Board arrived at 8:19 PM SALUTE TO FLAG: ANNOUNCEMENT OF RECORDING OF PROCEEDINGS: Clifford Van Wagner stated the proceedings of this meeting are being taped for the benefit of the secretary. Because the minutes are not a verbatim record of the proceedings, the minutes are not a word-for-word transcript of the recording. ANNOUNCEMENT OF ADJOURNED PROJECTS: ADJOURNED AT THE APPLICANT'S REQUEST: 10.042 THE MEWS, 60 Weibel Avenue, review of site plan of mixed use building in the Transect-4 District. 10.052 CDJT WORKFORCE HOUSING, Citywide, City Council request for an Advisory Opinion for review of Zoning Amendment Proposal request for workforce housing. ADJOURNED TO MAY 25, 2011: 10.054 DYER LOT LINE ADJUSTMENT, 22 Dyer Circle – lot line adjustment. 11.002 BUFF ROAD SUBDIVISION, BUFF ROAD AND ROUTE 9N, public hearing for a final 15 lot subdivision in the Urban Residential-1 and Rural Residential-1 Districts. ADJOURNED WAITING FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION: 11.001 420 BROADWAY (LILLIAN'S PARKING LOT), 420 Broadway, site plan for a mixed use building in the Transect-6 District. 10.013 WHITE FARMS ROAD BED AND BREAKFAST, 66 White Farms Road, public hearing for special use permit for six room corridor bed and breakfast in a Rural Residential-1 District. 07.048.2 THE BULLPEN II, HORSESHOE INN, 9 Gridley Street, public hearing for a renewable special use permit for live outdoor entertainment in the Tourist Related Business District. 10.028 CELLCO-VERIZON CELL TOWER: 81 Nelson Avenue, SEQRA evaluation of potential environmental impact for a new 90' monopine telecommunications tower and associated equipment in an Urban Residential-2 District. 10.027 307 GRAND AVENUE MULTI-FAMILY, 307 Grand Avenue, review of site plan for multi-family housing in the Transect-4 District. 10.031 307 GRAND AVENUE MULTI-FAMILY, 307 Grand Avenue, review of site plan for multi-family housing in the Transect-4 District. COMMENTS FROM THE CHAIR: UPCOMING PLANNING BOARD MEETINGS/AGENDA WORKSHOPS: Next Planning Board Meeting is scheduled for Wednesday May 25, 2011 at 7:00 PM. Planning Board Caravan is schedule for Monday, May 23, 2011 at 4:00 PM Planning Board Workshop is scheduled for Monday, May 23, 2011 at 5:00 PM PRIVILEGE OF THE FLOOR: Opportunity to allow citizens to address planning issues not on the scheduled agenda. None heard. APPLICATIONS UNDER CONSIDERATION: 1. 11.014 MOHR’S SERVICE CENTER, 239 Washington Street, public hearing for a special use permit for a car wash in the Transect-5 District. 2. 11.009 MOHR’ SERVICE CENTER, 239 Washington Avenue, site plan of car wash in the Transect-5 District. RECUSAL: Tom L. Lewis recused himself from this application and left the room.. Applicant: Mr. Mohr Agent: Matt Brobston, LA Group; Mark Blessik, Ryko Car Wash Manufacturer Mr. Brobston gave a brief synopsis of the project. The buffering includes a split rail fence and the addition of some lilac trees for the benefit of the neighbor who requested it. Seven cars can be stacked safely. There are no vacuums regarding the noise generation. One door on the care wash will open at a time. Everything is self contained. The approximate time the car wash is actually in operation is approximately 3-5 minutes depending on which wash option is chosen. The Mohr’s garage hours are 7am to 7pm, Monday thru Friday. 7am to 6pm on Saturday and Sunday. The hours of operation for the carwash have been proposed as 7am -11pm. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman asked if there were any comments from the Board or staff? Amy Durland stated regarding stacking. The other car wash can stack approximately 25 cars. What are you basing the 7 cars on? City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – Wednesday, May 11, 2011 – page 2 of 15 Mr. Brobston stated more cars can be stacked when the garage is not open. This is being based on the number of space available will only allow for approximately 7 cars. Saratoga County Planning Board made a determination that no significant county wide or inter municipal impact is noted. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman asked if anyone in the audience wished to comment on the Special Use Permit for the Mohr's Service Center? None heard. Kate Maynard, Principal Planner researched the Waterworks Car Wash hours and also the City’s Noise Ordinance. The Waterworks car wash hours are 7 am – 11 pm - 7 days a week. There is a Noise Ordinance. The hours constituting unreasonable noise within 250 ft of a residential district 11 pm to 7 am. (Specifically cites amplification of sound). Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman asked if there were any further questions or comments from the Board? Kate Maynard noted an e-mail was received 05-11-11 from Robert Braim regarding noise concern, and the hours of operation. Matt Brobston stated the Mohr’s have proposed their hours of operation would be 7am to 11pm 7 days a week. Amy Durland stated with the installation of the previous car wash across the way neighbors had indicated that there concern was not just about the car wash itself but about cars coming in, playing loud music, and mufflers, and brakes and things like that. I thought that had some legitimacy. What would you thing about taking one of the elements of the hours across the way which is during those summer hours when people would be more likely to have their windows to limit hours to 10 pm instead of 11pm. Matt Brobston stated he didn't think one hour in the summertime would be a deal breaker for them. Mr. Mohr would be amenable to that. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated the hours of operation would now be 7am to 10 pm from May 1st through October 31st. 7am to 11pm from November 1st through April 30th. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated we have reviewed this site plan a number of times. We have had at least one sketch plan. It has become quite evident that the wetlands that are behind it prohibit that philosophy of the connecting alley behind the buildings to the north. The applicant has indicated he has no intent to develop any further on the property. Standards of a Special Use Permit were reviewed. Philip Klein asked a question of Mr. Blessik, RYCO Manufacturing. Regarding the drying cycle being louder than the actual wash cycle? Is there anything that can be done to mitigate sound? Mark Blessik, RYCO manufacturing stated both cycles are pretty equal. There is a tube that surrounds the dryer fans that reduces noise. I will get the technical specifications for you to explain how that works and I I will send that information to the Planner. This will be a part of this operation. Our entire process is quieter since it is not touch free, it does not use a jet stream to clean vehicles, it uses foam fingers. City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – Wednesday, May 11, 2011 – page 3 of 15 SEQRA: Review of Part II of the EAF by Board. No large or important areas of impact are noted. Howard Pinsley stated that based upon the information provided by the applicant in Part I of the SEQR Short Environmental Assessment Form, and analysis of the information provided and presented in Part II of the SEQR Short Environmental Assessment Form, the project will not result in any large and important impacts and, therefore, is one that will not have a significant adverse impact on the environment. Based on this, I move to make a SEQR negative declaration for this action. Seconded by Dan Gaba. VOTE: A. Durland, in favor; P. Klein, in favor; D. Gaba, in favor; H. Pinsley, in favor; Clifford Van Wagner, in favor Motion passes 5-0. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated now we need to form a motion for Special Use Permit to allow the the carwash in this T-5 District. The hours proposed by the applicant are 7am – 10pm May 1st through October 31st, and 7am – 11pm November 1st through April 30th. The doors will be closed through the entire cleaning and drying process. No vacuums will be utilized on site. The applicant will do his best to mitigate the sound with appropriate noise detonating materials for the blowers. The addition of a buffer on the east side of the proposed site with a mixture of evergreens, lilacs trees and a split rail fence this will prevent pedestrians from cutting across lots from private property to private property. The applicant has agreed to sidewalks as well street lights. The street trees are already present. Philip Klein questioned bringing the split rail fence all the way down. Eventually, you will have quite a number of neighbors, and this will prohibit them from walking across the property. Matt Brobston stated the applicant prefers to leave the fence as it is currently shown. This fence has been placed to cut off the existing traffic at this point and to provide some buffering to the neighbor who previously expressed concerns. Mr. Mohr stated there is already a row of evergreens and shrubs there now; however, Mr. Mohr agreed to extend the fence the length of the property. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman asked if there was any further comments. Philip Klein made a motion to approve the Special Use Permit in the Mohr's Service Center application for a two bay carwash. Seconded by Howard Pinsley. VOTE: City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – Wednesday, May 11, 2011 – page 4 of 15  A. Durland, in favor; P. Klein, in favor; D. Gaba, in favor; H. Pinsley, in favor; Clifford Van Wagner, in favor Motion passes 5-0. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated we move on to the Site Plan. The applicant is responsible for and has agreed to the sidewalks, and streetlights. Drainage improvements will be provided continuously to match sidewalks at the corner of West Avenue, as well as everything that was to be done by DOT and never was completed. Storm water management in light of the shallow bedrock. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman asked if anyone in the audience wished to comment on the request for a site plan for the car wash at Mohr's Service Center? None heard. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman asked if there were any further questions or comments from the Board? Amy Durland questioned the lighting for the car wash itself? Matt Brobston stated there is no additional lighting proposed. There is a light that exists that will be moved to the new edge of pavement. In the architectural picture the garage will have lights along the main door to light the entrances, but no additional lighting overhead. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman asked if there were any further questions or comments. None heard. Dan Gaba made a motion for the Site Plan Approval for the carwash at Mohr's Service Center application. Seconded by Howard Pinsley. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman asked if there was any further discussion. None heard. VOTE: A. Durland, in favor; P. Klein, in favor; D. Gaba, in favor; H. Pinsley, in favor; Clifford Van Wagner, in favor Motion passes 5-0. 3. 11.019 SUBDIVISION OF 108 ASH STREET, 108 Ash Street, public hearing for a 4 lot subdivision in the Urban Residential-2 District. Applicant: Matt McPadden, Vintage Bungalow. Agent: Dave Carr/Mike Komm LA Group The applicant is currently pursuing a 4 lot subdivision which is the subject of this application. All area requirements have been met with the proposed subdivision. This requires a public street for Maple which is City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – Wednesday, May 11, 2011 – page 5 of 15 currently a paper street for the proposed lots. This new street will be Maple Street. The City Engineer stated he does not feel that the new street needs to be 20 feet wide. The fire department is requesting 20 feet wide to enable their firefighting apparatus. Subdivision requirements are for sidewalks to be installed. The linear distance from Birch to Walnut is the same in the middle of the block as it is on the exterior. It was feeling of the Board at the workshop that we would ask the applicant to consider putting sidewalks all along Ash Street rather than interior on Maple. It is the beginning of having sidewalks on this block, connecting to sidewalks from east. It is the same dimensions, and the same cost. We also discussed the opportunity of putting porous pavement in, which helps with drainage. This should be a relatively low traffic street and according to the City Engineer the site conditions are good for using porous pavement in this area. Public works is looking for placement of a new manhole, at the proposed sanitary connect at Walnut Street. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman, asked if there were any further questions or comments from the Board or staff. None heard. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman asked if there was anyone in the audience who wished to comment on the Subdivision application for 108 Ash Street? Dave Carr, LA Group stated that the neighbors as well prefer 20 foot street width as well as the fire department and the applicant is fine with that. With the porous pavement the difference is not as significant because you are getting the infiltration anyway. RYAN BERRY, 13 Walnut Street. Excited about the porous pavement. His concerns are regarding storm water. Are there any safeguards in place in case impervious pavement if it fails? I am looking for legally binding measures in the event this would fail. The water table is high. Overflow and backup systems can be put in place to help mitigation in the event of failure. Maple and Walnut areas suffer from severe flooding. Water comes up to the curbs. Mr. Berry indicated he lives less than 100 feet from the project and suffers from severe flooding problems several times a year. Dave Carr, LA Group, stated a SWPPP was submitted and the application is not under SWPPP regulations. Porous pavement was requested by the City Engineer. He thought this would be a good test case. We did do test borings within the Maple Street right of way or within the site. We went down about 8 feet and the water table or high ground water elevations in those holes were at least 7 feet and the perc rate was pretty good. Much better than what you would need for porous pavement. If the porous pavement were to fail and that is a good point. It has not been around long enough but we have seen it work quite well at the Pine Bush in Albany for about ten or fifteen years, and they do virtually no maintenance down there. We just installed it at Skidmore College and it has only been 8 months, but the road is designed with a crown to sheet to the turf. If it were to fail the water would simply runoff the pavement to the grass, which is what the DEC really wants. This is a system we were asked to provide. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated this is the City's request and will be built to the City's specifications. The City will own the street and if the pavement fails than the City is 100% responsible for remediation. Discussion ensued regarding the use and maintenance of porous pavement and the responsibility of the City in maintaining it. Kate Maynard provided that the City is requesting and seeing more porous pavement in the City- making a long term commitment in using porous pavement and using this as a test case for its operation and maintenance. ANDREA WEISE, 25 Walnut Street. The sanitary sewer will connect with the sewer on Walnut Street. In addition to the water issue my neighbor spoke about there are regular backups with the sewer on Walnut City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – Wednesday, May 11, 2011 – page 6 of 15 Street. I have very frequent visits by the DPW to the area near my driveway which is south of the new Maple Street, and also at the West Circular, Walnut Street intersection. I am curious how four more houses would affect this aging sewer system. Perhaps you can look into this especially with more houses being added. Dave Carr, LA Group stated that the City Engineer, Paul Male, directed the application specifically to go to Walnut Street. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated staff will note the information presented this evening and will have the City address that, prior to the new construction. KIRK WENDELL, 14 Walnut Street, is where I reside. I also own 20 Walnut Street. We have a problem with the sanitary sewer on Walnut Street currently. Adding additional houses is going to create additional problems. There are trucks there about 6 times per year. I have lived there for 24 years. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated we are not an enforcement board. We do take your comments very seriously. Your comments are noted and are on the record. Kate Maynard, Principal Planner asked Mr. Wendell to please leave his name and number so that he can be contacted by staff. Dave Carr, LA Group stated they have met with Paul Male, City Engineer several times. This is the first time they are hearing about these problems. One thing we are adding is a new manhole on Walnut Street where our line is coming out. That will give the City an opportunity to access the line in either direction much closer. It will give them closer access to the line. Amy Durland stated she is upset that this information regarding the flooding and the sewers are coming forth at this time and that it has taken this long before we are aware of the problem. Apparently this information is new to the applicant as well. I just want to ask the Board what we can do to try to address that to the extent that we can in this approval. In fairness to the applicant he has done what we have asked, he is also putting in the porous pavement or is willing to do that even though that is a fairly new technology and now at the 11th hour we are hearing about these problems which are very convincing and I am not quite sure what to do. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated one of the opportunities is when the City Engineer's office looks at this. Dave Carr indicated that the City Engineer wanted to go to Walnut Street with sanitary sewers when he could have gone elsewhere. So, maybe it is an opportunity for the City Engineer's office to readdress this and see if we don’t add two more houses to that line. Which does not help too much, it doesn't add any more, it doesn't help fix the problem. David Carr, LA Group stated the City Engineer directed the applicant that way. We could have easily gone to Birch Street. To us it is a technical issue. We can talk to Paul Male and if Birch makes more sense we will go to Birch we have no problem doing that. Amy Durland questioned Mike McPadden as to his time frame. Ideally all things being equal it would be my preference to run this past the City Engineer one more time. I know that you have been before us several times and I know also often people are in a situation where they prefer to move forward legitimately. Mike McPadden, Contractor stated we would like to move forward at this stage, but we also understand the Boards concerns. I would thing with a contingency to meet with Paul Male, and designing a sanitary sewer system that works well for everybody in the area is certainly feasible. Especially since we have gotten this City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – Wednesday, May 11, 2011 – page 7 of 15 far and Paul feels comfortable with what we have presented already and he directed us there. We could work through that, it would be feasible. ROBERT LOCKE, 99 Ash Street. Will Maple Street be a one way street? Will it flow the same way as Ash Street? Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated the Department of Public Safety will have the final say in that matter. Mark Schachner, Counsel to the Planning Board Arrived at 8:19 P.M. SEQRA: Review of Part II of the EAF by Board. No large or important areas of impact are noted. Howard Pinsley stated that based upon the information provided by the applicant in Part I of the SEQR Short Environmental Assessment Form, and analysis of the information provided and presented in Part II of the SEQR Short Environmental Assessment Form, the project will not result in any large and important impacts and, therefore, is one that will not have a significant adverse impact on the environment. Based on this, I move to make a SEQR negative declaration for this action. Seconded by Dan Gaba. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman asked if there was any further discussion. None heard. VOTE: A. Durland, in favor; P. Klein, in favor; D. Gaba, in favor; H. Pinsley, in favor; T. Lewis, in favor; Clifford Van Wagner, in favor Motion passes 6-0. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated we will now vote on the 4 lot subdivision. We have seen this a number of times. The applicant has agreed to do the porous pavement, 20 foot in width. Sidewalks along Ash Street, in lieu of the sidewalks on the newly created Maple Street. Sanitary sewers. Staff and the Board have noted that there are potential issues that exist today on Walnut Street. The applicant and his agent the LA Group will work with the City not only to assure that the two houses that will be placed on Maple Street will not adversely impact this but perhaps shine a better light on conditions which exist currently on Maple Street. The City Engineer has agreed 100% to waive curbing along Maple Street. Street trees are already present. One additional street tree is requested. One additional street light on Ash Street. Also the 20' wide roadway of Maple Street will be in the center of the 50' right of way. Any further questions or comments from the Board? Tom Lewis made a motion to approve a 4 Lot Subdivision in a UR-2 District, at 108 Ash Street. Seconded by Philip Klein. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman asked if there was any further discussion. City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – Wednesday, May 11, 2011 – page 8 of 15 None heard. VOTE: A. Durland, in favor; P. Klein, in favor; D. Gaba, in favor; H. Pinsley, in favor; T. Lewis, in favor; Clifford Van Wagner, in favor Motion passes 6-0. 8:30 PM Board recessed. 8:45 PM Board reconvened. 4. 11.018 SIRO’S, 168 Lincoln Avenue, site plan review of restaurant and bar in the Institutional Horse Track Related District. 5. 11.010.1 SIRO’S, 168 Lincoln Avenue, public hearing for modification to special use permit of outdoor entertainment in the Institutional Horse Track Related District. The project was last seen by the Planning Board March 9, 2011 at which time a renewable special use permit was issued for outdoor entertainment. The conditions of approval hinge on meeting the standards to consider for issuance of a Special Use Permit. Agent: Tom Frost, Architect Attorney: Bob Sweeney Mr. Frost stated there is a slight change to the site plan you have seen. We are restructuring part of the property in two Phases. Phase I is the removal of an 8 foot fence on two sides of the property and changing it to a 10 foot fence. All of this is in preparation for a more substantial sound barrier to keep the noise from the inside yard of Siro's from emanating to the neighbors in the evening when they have entertainment during the racing season. The fence will be constructed of pre cast panels and they slide down between the flanges of steel H columns. It is a fairly standard sound wall detail and very effective. In Phase I we will be taking the existing stage putting sound walls on the sides of the stage and a stage extension that are not there now. Addition of some roof panels to try to contain the noise so that it does not go sideways and over to the neighbors the way it tends to now. Also the applicant is installing some fencing around the two dumpsters and the compactor that are going to be on the NYRA property to the south of this property. There is an 8 foot wall around it which encloses it on three sides. In Phase II, which we intend to do after this season is to put a bar along the south fence and cover the bar roof. The site plan that you have shows a small little detail down in the corner where the wall becomes the back of the bar and the roof over it will extend to a ridge height of about 17 feet which will have a much larger impact on blocking the sound going out. This should be in place by next spring. The stage will be removed and a new stage will be built with a better design for acoustic control. It will be aimed 12 degrees off of the current stage location. It will be more effective in keeping the sound from going behind it and to the sides of it. The wall on the west side of the property is going to be changed from 8 feet to 10 feet. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated the Board cannot take any action on Phase I of this application this evening. One of the items to be discussed is the hiring of a sound expert by the City. We will review the proposals, vote on one and send the recommendation to the City Council. When this Board meets again in two weeks on May 25th, it would be helpful if we could have an on-site voice demonstration between the 17th and the 18th knowing the City Council will vote on the 17th to approve whichever voice consultant we choose. City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – Wednesday, May 11, 2011 – page 9 of 15 Kate Maynard, Principal Planner, stated the other thing to note is that the Zoning Board of Appeals did not act on the area variance yet, so there can be no action on the application tonight. The application is on the Agenda for May 23, 2011, and a determination could be made at that time. Clifford Van Wagner reviewed the conditions of the March 9, 2011 special use permit for outdoor entertainment only. Sunday, Monday: 4pm – 8pm Wednesday, Thursday, 4pm – 9pm Friday, Saturday, 4pm – 9 pm Monday of Sales Week 4pm – 9pm Traver's Day and the Alabama Stakes: 4pm – 9pm Two Tuesdays only for charity events during thoroughbred meet 4pm – 9pm Final Saturday, 4pm – 9pm Two Friday twilight racing nights: 4pm – 10pm Six additional days in addition to thoroughbred meet 4pm – 9pm In addition a waiver of 187 spaces required on-site, also a limit of 65 decibels on a dbA scale at any point on Siro's property line. The applicant is proposing: 4pm – 9pm on every race day except the following when the hours will be from 4pm to 11pm; day before Opening Day; Travers Day, Twilight racing day (2) Charitable Event (1). 4pm – 9pm on two (2) Tuesdays for charity events 4pm – 9pm Monday of Sales Week No later than 9pm for six days in addition to the thoroughbred meet. Also requesting a waiver of the 187 parking spaces and allowed noise level to 75 decibels on a dbA scale along the length of Siro's property with the exception of the east property line facing the Race Course. On March 9, 2011 this Board recommended the applicant set aside $5,000 to be used to monitor the decibel levels coming from the outdoor entertainment. The Special Use Permit was granted for one year. In addition the applicant has requested that the Special Use Permit for the outdoor entertainment be for a period longer than one year. The applicant is also offering to do an on-site noise demonstration proposed by the applicant to mimic the noise level of a performing band on the stage through the use of speakers, and sound attenuation. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated the Board's goal tonight is to vote on a Certified Sound Engineer tonight and forward the recommendation to the City Council who will vote on May 17, 2011. Amy Durland questioned if there was any ability for the sound engineer during the sound demonstration to have enough information to be able to duplicate what the sound would be like after Phase II? Mr. Frost stated yes, he will be able to do that. City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – Wednesday, May 11, 2011 – page 10 of 15 Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman asked if there was any questions or comments from legal counsel. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated the public hearing will remain open. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman asked if anyone in the audience who would like to comment on Siro's application. PATRICK DOWD, I live on the corner of Lincoln and Nelson. I have no problem at all with Siro's, and I do not hear any noise from the band. I would also ask that the Board keep in mind that when the demonstration is done that they realize when the band is playing when Siro's is open there is usually between 5,000 and 10,000 people in that neighborhood. So the fact that a band is playing with nobody else in the neighborhood, the noise will tend to amplify. The neighborhood is not a typical residential neighborhood in the City it is anything but. There is no other neighborhood in the City that equals this more than half of the properties in this neighborhood make money commercially from either the racetrack, or Siro's or in some cases both. SEAN CONNOLLY, 139 Nelson Avenue. Across the street from Siro's. I also have no problem with Siro's having the music afterwards. I have a six and an eight year old. We sit on the porch. We have no problem with it. I think the changes will be good. NEIGHBORHOOD INPUT Comments received from Larry King, Sally King, Sara Hallberg, Judy Schrade, and Rose Tait in reference to the Siro's application. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated the following applications were received and reviewed for the position of sound engineer: Matthew Gleason, NOVUS Engineering. Mike Sawyer, CT Male Enviroscapes by Design, in Ballston Lake. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated in reviewing the proposals and application the most complete and applicable proposal that was reviewed was from NOVUS Engineering for acoustical services, the principal is Matt Gleason. Kate has brought to our attention that NOVUS was involved in this application under Bagdon Environmental back in 2002. We have been assured by the acoustical engineer Mr. Gleason that he was not employed by NOVUS at that time and is not involved in any way in this project and has no prior involvement with this. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman asked if there were any further questions or comments. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated it was the Boards recommendation to retain NOVUS Engineering based on relevant experience and perceived expertise. Howard Pinsley made a motion to request that NOVUS Engineering be the preferred sound engineer, and make a recommendation to the City Council that they retain acoustical engineering services for review of this application. Second by Dan Gaba. City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – Wednesday, May 11, 2011 – page 11 of 15 Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman asked if there was any further discussion from the Board? Hearing none. VOTE: A. Durland, in favor; P. Klein, in favor; D. Gaba, in favor; H. Pinsley, in favor; T. Lewis, in favor; C. Van Wagner, in favor MOTION PASSES: 6-0 Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated regarding the Site Plan there is nothing we can do tonight. The applicant is proposing improvements in Phase I and Phase II. Phase I to take place before the race meet in 2011. Following the end of the racing season the applicant will return to the Zoning Board again to request the area variances. We cannot take any action since the Zoning Board need to vote on the area variance for the request for the 10 foot fence as opposed to the 8 foot allowed. PUBLIC HEARING: Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated the public hearing will remain open. Are there any comments from the audience regarding Siro's site plan application, keeping in mind no action will be taken tonight. JOHN MCMAHON Attorney for Rose Tait requested name and address of the acoustical engineer recommended to the City Council. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated we will see that you receive that information Mr. McMahon. Any further questions or comments. Dan Gaba, questioned how long Phase I will take. Mr. Frost stated he does not have a contractor yet, they will need to obtain a building permit and as soon as they have information in this regard he will notify staff. Board recessed at 9:20 PM. Board reconvened at 9:27 PM. 6. 11.020. DUPRAS SUBDIVISION, 29 and 47 Staffords Bridge Road, public hearing on a two lot subdivision in the Rural Residential-1 District. Applicant: Pember Dupras and WGC, LLC Agent: John Carusone, Mike Toohey An illegal subdivision appears to have taken place in 1982 with the prior owner of property. Two portions of the parcel have been conveyed to separate owners since then and have been treated as two separate parcels since, but never legally subdivided. Current owners Pember Dupras, and WGC,LLC (William City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – Wednesday, May 11, 2011 – page 12 of 15 Cummins are proposing a two lot subdivision to resolve the issue and receive legal subdivision of properties. A permit was issued for a garage when the property was under single ownership. A residential structure was constructed instead. The building file reflects notification to the property owner that construction of the residential unit had not received a building permit. Two family accommodations noted, in violation of RR-1 permitted uses. The current owner is working with the building department to comply with building permit needs for structure. The applicant has agreed that the structure will be utilized only as single family residence, complying with RR-1 regulations. Mr. Carusone states the premises are now vacant. They have no plans to go to the Zoning Board to request permission to use it as a two family. Until we know what is going on it will remain vacant. It may even end up being a tear down because of the building code issues. It may not be economically feasible. There are a number of violations. Kate and I spoke regarding the conservation subdivision regulations and we are asking for nunc pro tunc. In 1983 those regulations did not exist there was no requirement for a set aside. We are asking this Board to waive that with the understanding that Mr. Cummins who owns the far larger parcel 39 acres if he decides to subdivide it further he is aware that he will have to comply with those conservation subdivision regulations. The current two lot subdivision we do not feel it is appropriate to impose that at this point in time. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman, stated the Board is being asked to bless a two lot subdivision and recognize it as is. One is 2.91 acres and the other is approximately 34.9 acres. We are being asked to basically bless that subdivision as it has existed since 1983. Mr. Carusone has indicated that the conservation subdivision regulations were not even in existence then. The owner of the larger parcel is aware of the conservation subdivision regulations and down the road he decides to subdivide than the conservation subdivision regulations will apply. The owner of the smaller property will in some way shape or form, either by demolition or by bringing the existing structure into compliance with the RR-1 regulations. At our workshop the City Engineer indicated that he too agreed with the now and then terminology since the illegal subdivision goes back to the early 80's. If this was a subdivision request today there would be a request by the City Engineer to install a 12" dry water main along the property frontage of 525 feet along Stafford Bridge Road or purchase the pipe and give it to the City for a new water line at some point down the road. He would require this at the original time of subdivision and these are the issues we see whenever there is a subdivision. There are no other departmental comments. Kate Maynard, Principal Planner stated she did speak to Paul Male briefly this afternoon and the third option would be to provide a provision financially so that it could be put in, in the future. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated the Board understands that there is currently no water line out there. This is how water lines and sidewalks and things happen in the City. It starts somewhere. Eventually the City will take over. If this was a subdivision effective starting today that would be a requirement. John Carusone questioned as to the cost of this proposal. Kate Maynard, Principal Planner stated he gave a very rough ball park figure approximately $10,000 potentially. I will need to confirm this. John Carusone stated this has been an enormous hardship on his client. Literally he may lose $100,000. Bill Cummins, 47 Stafford Bridge Road. The applicant had wanted to develop that property some time ago. Then there was the cost of bringing the water line in. I do not have the funds for that. City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – Wednesday, May 11, 2011 – page 13 of 15 Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated we understand that. You have to understand that this Planning Board utilizes the expertise of the City Engineer and the Engineering Department on a very regular basis. If we were to step back and identify this as a two lot subdivision in front of us today for the first time so that you could subdivide your land and keep your 34.91 acres and this gentleman would have less than 3 acres. In order to get approval for your subdivision this would be a requirement by the City. The engineer would tell us this is a requirement that he wants us to put into effect. Mr. Cummins stated this has been over 30 years ago. We are not asking for a subdivision now. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated we can easily leave this application open tonight. However, we have a recommendation from the City Engineer that we historically have never walked away from. If you would like some time to chat with your client you can be placed back on the agenda at a later date. This looks like the outstanding issue. Amy Durland questioned the property owners as to what are the plans for the property. Mr. Cummins stated he does not have any plans at this time. He did put in a culvert which Mr. Gaylord had applied for to put a road in there. Amy Durland questioned what the plans are that triggered you doing the subdivision now? Mr. Dupras stated he is trying to sell the home. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated we will keep this application open for two weeks. The attorneys can talk with their clients and Kate and we will obtain an exact figure for the piping. My suggestion is that we put this application in abeyance for two weeks. APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES: Amy Durland made a motion to approve the minutes of the April 13, 2011 with additions and/or corrections. VOTE: Ayes: A. Durland, D. Gaba, P. Klein, H. Pinsley, C. Van Wagner Nayes None Abstain: T. Lewis (Not a member of the Board at this time) MOTION PASSES: 5-0-1. Tom Lewis made a motion to approve the minutes of the April 27, 2011 meeting with additions or corrections. VOTE: Ayes: A. Durland, D. Gaba, P. Klein, H. Pinsley, T. Lewis, C. Van Wagner Nayes None MOTION PASSES: 6-0. City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – Wednesday, May 11, 2011 – page 14 of 15 MOTION TO ADJOURN: There being no further business Clifford Van Wagner adjourned the meeting at 10:18 P.M. Respectfully submitted, Diane M. Buzanowski Approved: May 25, 2011 City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Minutes – Wednesday, May 11, 2011 – page 15 of 15