Planning Board

PLANNING BOARD MINUTES WEDNESDAY, JULY 13, 2011 7:00 P.M. CITY COUNCIL ROOM PRESENT: Clifford Van Wagner; Chair, Tom Lewis, Vice Chair, Amy Durland, Philip Klein, Dan Gaba, Howard Pinsley STAFF: Kate Maynard, Principal Planner Time Wales, City Engineer CALL TO ORDER: Clifford Van Wagner called the meeting to order at 7:03 P.M. SALUTE TO THE FLAG: ANNOUNCEMENT OF RECORDING OF PROCEEDING: Clifford Van Wagner stated the proceedings of this meeting are being taped for the benefit of the secretary. Because the minutes are not a verbatim record of the proceedings, the minutes are not a word-for-word transcript of the recording. ANNOUNCEMENT OF ADJOURNED PROJECTS: ADJOURNED AT THE APPLICANT'S REQUEST: 10.013 WHITE FARMS ROAD BED AND BREAKFAST, 66 White Farms Road, public hearing for special use permit for six room corridor bed and breakfast in a Rural Residential-1 District. 10.052 CDJT WORKFORCE HOUSING, Citywide, City Council request for an Advisory Opinion for review of Zoning Amendment Proposal request for workforce housing. 11.002 BUFF ROAD SUBDIVISION, BUFF ROAD AND ROUTE 9N, public hearing for a final 15 lot subdivision in the Urban Residential-1 and Rural Residential-1 Districts. 11.020 DUPRAS SUBDIVISION, 29 and 47 Staffords Bridge Road, public hearing on a 2 lot subdivision in the Rural Residential-1 District. ADJOURNED – WAITING FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION: 10.028 CELLCO-VERIZON CELL TOWER, 81 Nelson Avenue, SEQRA evaluation of potential environmental impact for a new 90' monopine telecommunications tower and associated equipment in an Urban Residential-2 District. 10.027 307 GRAND AVENUE MULTI-FAMILY, 307 Grand Avenue, public hearing on a special use permit for multi-family housing in the Transect-4 District. 10.031 307 GRAND AVENUE MULTI-FAMILY, 307 Grand Avenue, review of site plan for multi-family housing in the Transect-4 District. UPCOMING PLANNING BOARD MEETINGS/AGENDA WORKSHOPS: July 25, 2011 Planning Board Caravan @ 4:00 PM July 25, 2011 Planning Board Workshop @ 5:00 PM July 27, 2011 Planning Board Meeting 7:00 PM August 10, 2011 Planning Board Meeting has been cancelled ADMINISTRATIVE ACTION AND LOT LINE ADJUSTMENTS 11.024 50 WATERBURY STREET, lot line adjustment in UR-2. Proposed lots both meet area requirements, alleviates existing violation of commercial parking lot in UR-2. PRIVILEGE OF THE FLOOR Opportunity to allow citizens to address planning issues not on the scheduled agenda. None heard. LATE ADDITION – TEMPORARY EXTENSION SPECIAL USE PERMIT 07.048.2 THE BULLPEN II, HORSESHOE INN, 9 Gridley Street. Temporary extension of existing special use permit and conditions. Attorney: Matthew J. Jones, Jones Ferradino The applicant requests a two week extension of a special use permit. The applicant will appear before the Board on July 29, 2011. Motion was made by Howard Pinsley to grant a 14 day extension. Seconded by Philip Klein. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman asked if there was any further discussion. None heard. VOTE: T. Lewis, Vice Chair; in favor, A. Durland, in favor; P. Klein, in favor; D. Gaba, in favor; H. Pinsley, in favor; Clifford Van Wagner, in favor MOTION PASSES: 6-0 APPLICATIONS UNDER CONSIDERATION: 1. 10.040.1 WASHINGTON COMMONS, 235 Washington Street, site plan for a mixed use building in the Transect-4 District. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated this is an application which has been the Board before. The applicant has presented two sketch plans and we are looking at a mixed use building. The applicant presented this in two stages where the Special Use Permit was granted earlier this year and the SEQRA negative declaration was issued and now we are looking at the Site Plan application. Items which will be addressed this evening are sidewalks, streetlights, street trees, potential access management between his site and the site to the west. Storm water, buffering, the courtyard between the buildings that we saw on sketch plan and the potential sidewalk connections to the building and project to the left and lighting. City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Meeting Minutes – July 13, 2011 - Page 2 of 12 Applicant: Steve Ethier Agent: Brett Steenburgh, Engineer DRC Architectural Review is required. Brett Steenburgh gave a brief overview of the project. The project is located in a T-4 Transect Zone. It is proposed to construct two principal buildings separated by a 32' x 62' courtyard with two accessory garages. The total site layout is 15,000 square feet office/retail – 12 units. Each building will have 7500 swuare feet of office/retail space and 6 residential units. We are meeting all the parking requirements 76 spaces in total. Some items added based upon the lastest revisions and the Planning Boards review are the streetlights spacing every 75 feet along Washington Street and Outlook Avenue. Sidewalks now proposed per City standard along Washinton Street frontage will be curbed per DOT. Several issues exist such as fire hydrant and utility pole. Street trees spacing per Transect requriements 1per 40 ft. Extension of landscape buffer. Stormwater rain garden and bioretention area – appropriate plants for area proposed. Egress only onto Washington Avenue and ingress-egress onto Central. Extensive landscape buffer will be provided along the rear of property. Street trees every 40 feet. Greenspace per code. Site lighting will be downfacing gooseneck low wattage fixture to preserve "dark skies". Clifford Van Wagner, Vice Chairman questioned concerns voiced regarding egress only from Washington Street, a right turn only. The County Planning Board recommended egress only onto the Washington Street corridor. Kate Maynard, Principal Planner stated the County Planning Board did make a recommendation that Washington Street be an egress only outlet, to help minimize congestion. Two way traffic, ingress and egress on Central Avenue. Howard Pinsley questioned if there were any sidewalks on the west side toward the Mohr Property. Would they be hooking into anything. Mr. Steenburgh stated the Mohr's sidewalks will come down to the property line. Kate Maynard interjected that they will connect and there is a note for the applicant to connect with the LA Group who are interested in finalizing their plans. This would be beneficial to ensure sidewalk connections. Philip Klein stated he concurred with moving the sidewalks closer to the building to avoid the telephone pole and the hydrant. It also makes is easier when the City does the plowing. Amy Durland asked the applicant what adjustments were made to the rain garden. Mr. Steenburgh stated intially they were planting Bradford Pear trees and some hydrangeas, however after further research they will be using some other plantings which tolerate the water better. The plantings will be chosen from the suggested plant list from the NYS-DEC. Dan Gaba questioned who would be maintaining the bioretention area and the rain gardens? Mr. Steenburgh stated the cost and responsibility would be born by the current owner. Amy Durland stated another issue to be discussed is the access management issue. City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Meeting Minutes – July 13, 2011 - Page 3 of 12 Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated when we listened to the Mohr's application, and in speaking with Kate along with Amy's comment there was conversation of a potential for a shared driveway betweent this applicant and Mohr's, which was not agreed upon by either side. Is there an opportunity for some sort of easement somewhere down the road if the tenancy of this project changes and maybe something changes on the Mohr's side, for some type of easement to link those two properties by either a sidewalk or a driveway? Mr. Ethier, applicant/owner stated he hasdiscussed this with Kate and the Board a few times and really does not want to have an easement and have a mini storage or tow truck operation or car wash going into a medical cluster. I will be willing to talk down the line, but giving an easement now we are opening a door to all their business sharing with a medical cluster and it would ruin that project. Down the line if there is something which would be the logical thing to do then maybe but giving an easment now to an autobody shop and the potential of tow trucks going up and down and people in wheelchairs going to see their doctors I do not think it is very practical for that site. Discussion ensued regarding the access management issue. Steven Ethier, Owner/Applicant stated he would be open to discussion regarding the easement issue for development at some time in the future. Philip Klein stated there are two doors on the west side of the building. People will be driving around that corner to exit to Washington Street and there is concern someone will exit the doorway and there will be a car. Have you given any thought to what you will be able to do in this area. Bob Flansburg, Architect for the project. There will be stripping in the pavement alerting the drivers there are entrances on the building. The doors are inset more for protecting the entrance and giving the building a little character. Amy Durland asked if there were going to be any type of public ammenities in the courtyard. Brett Steenburgh stated there will be benches, bicycyle racks, other amenities to dress up the courtyard. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated is there anyone in the audience wishing to comment on the Washington Commons application? Peter Faith, resident of Central Avenue. The access plan calls for two access from Central and a one way exit onto Washington Street. 100% of the traffic into the site comes from Central Avenue. I would suggest ingress and egress on Washington Street since it is largely classified as a minor urban arterial one of the functions of Washington Street is to provide access to the local properties. By restricting the Washington Street driveway to one way out only you are forcing all of the commercial traffic onto Central Avenue which is a residential street. I would ask the Board to consider allowing entrance and exit to the driveway via Washington Street. Tom Lewis asked if Mr. Faith had an experience in the traffic engineering field. Mr. Faith replied yes. Tom Lewis stated I totally agree with Peter and you will make this site work better if they have full access both ways. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated we have never gone against anything the City Planning Board has recommended. Tim Wales, City Engineer stated that Paul Male did mark up this area for two way traffic. I also agree with Peter. Kate Maynard stated this is a State Highway. Saratoga County Planning Board reviews all state and county routes. City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Meeting Minutes – July 13, 2011 - Page 4 of 12 Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman asked if there are any further questions or comments. Hearing none. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman gave a quick recap of the project. Egress only on Washingtron. Ingress and Egress both on Central. Stripe the pavement at the West Entrance where the exit doors are on the west side of the building and provide curbs. Rather than have the sidewalk wind around a National Grid pole and a fire hydrant, the applicant has agreed to move the sidewalk inside the property line. Street lights, and street trees will be provided per code. The parking requirements have beenme. 75% buildout on Washington Street is provided 50% is required. City Engineer and the applicant will resolve the details with the catch basin. Tim Wales, City Engineer stated the applicant will be better seved to connect to the 10" water line on Washington Street versus the 8" line on Central Avenue. Amy Durland stated she still is uncertain about this access management. I wish there was some way we could characterize this, and I don't know if there is some way the City would have the ability to review a proposal from either parcel to create that access if in the future the circumstances change and it might make sense to take a look at it. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated the City can discuss but not mandate it. You have to respect the use of the two parcels. One being mixed use potentially medical and the other being very much commerical. Tow truck service, auto repair shop and the drive in Dunkin Donuts accesses that as well as a potential carwash. I think the gentle approach on it is something that keeps the door open without handcuffing either side. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman asked if there was any further questions or comments from the Board. None heard. SEQRA: Seqra negative declaration was reaffirmed on July 13, 2011. Amy Durland stated regarding cross access – that future cross access connection to be considered between the subject parcel and adjacent property to the west with any proposed future development on either site. Is there someway to get that into a condition that would be acceptable to everyone. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman made a motion that the application of Washington Commons site plan for a mixed use building be approved with the following conditions: Pavement at the west entrance exit doors shall be stripped. Curbing shall be provided per City specifications. Street trees 1 at every 40 feet, street lights 1 at every 75 feet. Two buildings with 7500 square feet each with a 75% build out at Washington Street where 50% is required. Sidewalk on Washington Street will be moved inside the property line approximately 10 feet. The sidewalk on Central Avenue will be placed so there will be a four foot planting strip. The applicant will provide a sidewalk along Outlook to connect to Central Avenue sidewalk. Statement on the approved drawings which state that future cross access connection that shall be agreed upon by both parties will be open for discussion for any proposed future development on either site. Buffering as proposed on the north property line. Seconded by Tom Lewis VOTE: T. Lewis, Vice Chair; in favor, A. Durland, in favor; P. Klein, in favor; D. Gaba, in favor; H. Pinsley, in favor; Clifford Van Wagner, in favor City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Meeting Minutes – July 13, 2011 - Page 5 of 12  MOTION PASSES: 6-0 2. 11.030 316 -318 BALLSTON AVENUE, 316-318 Ballston Avenue, sketch plan discussion for 12 residential units in a Transect -4 District. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated no formal action will be taken this evening. We will hopefully give the applicant some guidance regarding this application. Applicant: Steve Ethier Agent: Brett Steenburgh, Engineer Brett Steenburgh gave a brief overview of the project. Two buildings residential only, separated by a 36' x 68' courtyard. Each building will have six 20' x 48' residential units with a one car attached garage and one parking space in the driveway. Parking per City's requirement. Access will be provided via an 18 foot wide alley along the rear of the parcel, connecting Ellis and Peck Avenue. Street trees every 40 feet along Ellis and Peck and Ballston Avenue as well as pedestrian access along the three streets and the required lighting every 75 feet as required in the transect zone. Storm water management what we are proposing is that the driveways and alleys be constructed of permeable pavement which allows for water storage underneath. We can also add some rain gardens in the courtyard if needed. Sidewalks along Ellis and Peck to connect with Springwood Run on Ellis and Route 50. Row style housing with functional front entrances. Water and sewer connections to the City's infrastructure. Amy Durland questioned when the applicant referred to functional front entrances, can you describe what you mean by that, are they the actual front entrances which can be accessed with walkways. Brett Steenburgh stated each front door will have sidewalk access to it. Howard Pinsley questioned if the visitors will park on the alleys? Brett Steenburgh stated they can park on Peck Avenue, rather than the alleys. DRC approval is required. Tom Wales, City Engineer stated he would like to see the sanitary sewer extended from Ellis up to Peck and extend along Ballston Avenue. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman asked if anyone in the audience would like to speak regarding the Ballston Avenue application? None heard. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated again no formal action will be taken this evening. This is a great first start. You will continue to work with the City Engineer and the City Planner especially on the sanitary sewer and we will see you whenever you are ready to be placed on the agenda again. 8:30 P. M. Board recessed. 8:40 P. M. Board reconvened. 3. 11.012 SEWARD STREET APARTMENTS, Seward Street and Morgan Street, sketch site plan for apartment buildings in the Urban Residential-4 District. City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Meeting Minutes – July 13, 2011 - Page 6 of 12 Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated this is a project we have seen many times. This is the third sketch plan. This is a UR-4 location which is approved for multi-family residences. The last sketch plan we saw the Board had some major concerns about the building locations overlooking the single family ranch houses on Seward Street. Our direction to the applicant was to take the benefit of another sketch plan and see if they could change the site a bit and be more respectful of the homes on Seward Street. Applicant: Gordon Residential Development, David Gordon Agent: Norman Ward, LA Group, Derek Ribulous, Cottler Architecture, and Jerrett George of Gordon Companies The site is located at Seward Street and Morgan Street. The parcel size is approximately 4 acres, which allows us 58 units based on a 3,000 square feet per dwelling unit. We are allowed 70 foot maximum building height. Parking per City's requirement. The direction from sketch 2 from the Board and the residents across the street is they do not want to see a three story building across the street. Density will be dictated by the storm water and the grading. There are many constraints on the site. There is bedrock, there are trees along Morgan and Seward and a whole host of other items to deal with. Visual presentation was given by Norman Ward to the Board. The applicant has eliminated the three story building. In its place have proposed a two story building. By eliminating the three story building and reducing the heights of all the buildings on site we have come down a total of 15 feet 10 inches. The Type I buildings are two story, the Type II are three story. Garages are tucked beneath the buildings and off street parking. Series of retaining walls that tie into the existing stone block walls. 6 apartment buildings with a total of 57 units. 40% open space. Reduce impervious cover, 20 ft width roads and 6 feet length of driveways. We are complying with the NYS-DEC Green Infrastructure, by reducing impervious cover, reducing the width of the roads and the length of the driveways. We are not removing trees on Seward and Morgan. We are trying to integrate what we are proposing with the site that is there. We will be using the pond for irrigation and street trees to increase nutrient uptake and provide shading. Derek Ribulous discussed the architecture of the buildings. He stated there are 3 Type I buildings. We have reduced the height by 5 feet. These are two story buildings with 9 units. The Type II buildings which were reduced in height by 3 feet are toward the rear of the property moved away from Seward Street, they total 3. Parking will be provided per City requirements. Grading the site to more consistent level of the surrounding neighborhood. Amy Durland asked how many perpendicular parking spaces are provided in the interior of the project. Norman Ward stated there are 29 interior parking spaces. Also handicapped parking is provided. Amy Durland stated there is no parallel parking interior or exterior. Norman Ward stated correct. Dan Gaba questioned the applicant as to where guests would park? Norman Ward stated it was his understanding that the 1.5 parking spaces per unit included guest parking. There is some space available for parallel guest parking if needed. We could probably accommodate that in certain areas. Amy Durland stated for a project of this density it seems to me that there is not a parking concept that works. It is located on streets that do not have parking and the interior has some perpendicular parking spaces but it does not suggest to me the kind of coherent neighborhood feel you would be after with that amount of density. The other City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Meeting Minutes – July 13, 2011 - Page 7 of 12 issue is there are no rear entrances. I feel it is lacking a concept in terms of pedestrian access, how people actually treat these units and when I viewed your animated graphic I didn't see any way for people to enter on the front. There has always been something about this project that just doesn't feel like the kind of urban project you are after. It feels like there are some inconsistencies in terms of pedestrian amenities. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated the new proposed concept with 3 bedroom apartments would lead one to think there would be at least two cars per unit. That would pretty much fill it up quickly and there would not be any room for any guests. Even a married couple with two cars, and I understand what the code says at 1.5 per unit. In the past this was proposed as an elderly assisted living type apartment complex where residents would not be driving and parking was not an issue. I can't imagine that 57 units if 60% of those folks have more than one car you are already maxed out with the 86 that you are providing does not allow for any staff, perhaps one or two for maintenance and absolutely no visitors, there is just no parking. Philip Klein asked the applicant to review the driveway approach. There is 6 feet between the curb and the garage door? Norman Ward stated actually the edge of the road. Philip Klein asked how much room is there from the garage door to the road? Norman Ward stated 6 feet. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated most projects that appear before the Board with parking like this have a one car garage and perhaps a 20 foot piece of property between the garage door and the sidewalk so another car can stack up. There is no room to stack up another car in each of the driveways. Norman Ward stated correct. Howard Pinsley stated there is 40% green space with this project and the requirement is 15%. Due to storm water and plantings none of that could be used for parking? Norman Ward stated correct. Is there a parking ratio that the Board would feel more comfortable with? Amy Durland stated she would like to compare this with another project in the City. Granted this is a different project and I am not asking you to duplicate it but I am thinking of the townhouses on Excelsior Avenue across from the World Gym. They have a clear front entrance on Excelsior Avenue. They have an alley behind where people access through their automobiles and street parking all the way up and down the street parallel parking and it works. It creates a walk ability feel and it feels accessible from the front there is a clear front and a clear rear where the cars are. To me that clarity has always been lacking in this project and I can't help but feel to some extent it may just be that it is hard to accommodate the amount of units that you want to put in without having something sacrificed. It just does not seem to work in terms of pedestrian access, the sense of how these units work front and rear and then what I assume you want to create somewhat urban neighborhood center with some parking but not the street feature that I would guess that you are after. That is my reaction. Norman Ward stated the project on Excelsior is a little bit more urban. This site feels a little bit more rural. It is on the edge of town. Given the concerns of the neighborhood ultimately this is going to be a little bit different project because we need to keep the trees. From Arcadia residents across the street did not want street lights up and down these two street so we are not going to do that either. We have some precedents that we are going off of and it is a different project. Amy Durland stated I did not say anything about removing trees or adding traffic lights but if you are going for something that has 14 or so units per acre, then I don't see how you can call it rural. City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Meeting Minutes – July 13, 2011 - Page 8 of 12 Howard Pinsley stated he has a real problem with the length of the driveway being only 6 feet long. If someone is backing out of their garage, they won't be able to see either way. Norman Ward stated they have done that in the past, it was done on another project on Weibel. Other projects that we have worked on and have been successful we tend to stay with what works. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman asked if there is anyone in the audience wishing to comment on this sketch plan application for Seward Street Apartments? Philip Fenna, President of Morgan Street, Birch Run, Homeowners Association. My comments tonight are my own. Some written comments were provided to the Board for the record. The DEC storm water regulations note that the pond would be included in the green space or impervious surface. When you consider that nothing is supposed to be growing in the ponds there is not much green there other than the trees along the border. Another issue is there is a concern where you have a 30 foot high buildings only a few feet apart. This could be a problem for the fire department. The traffic on Seward Street and Morgan Street is all pretty heavy due to the growing hospital, which we are happy to have. We are between some very heavy traffic generators. The Hospital, Skidmore College and in the summer time the polo fields and Prestwick Chase. The streets are all too narrow for street parking. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated the Planning Board has made all of their points. You certainly have made some improvements. What you decide to do with the comments that you have heard is up to you. You do have the ability to have another sketch plan review by the Board. The Planning Board chair has the ability to grant those. 4. 11.011 MARTELL BROTHERS’ BREWING COMPANY, 381 Broadway, sketch site plan for brew pub in the Transect-6 District. Applicant: Christopher Martell, Martell Brothers Brewing Company Steven Rowland, Butler, Rowland and Mayes Mike Brooks, Tommell & Associates Jason Tommell, Tommell & Associates George DePiro, Brew master Christopher Martell stated we last presented on April 13, 2011. We have made some changes to our plan. A memo was compiled and delivered on July 6, 2011 to the Board outlining the changes and answering questions raised at the last meeting. The memo deals with some discussions that were held with Sheila Parker the owner of the Adelphi Hotel and she is also present this evening and is aware of what has been happening. Essentially Ms. Parker delivered a letter to the Planning Board on May 3, 2011 and in her letter she addressed a number of concerns. More specifically she was concerned with noise from the patio directly under the Adelphi's windows, live entertainment, smells emanating from the brewing process itself. When I received the letter we pulled together as a team and flushed out all the issues and how to we address these issues and minimize the impact on our neighbors. We have eliminated the 800 square feet of patio space directly underneath the hotels windows. We revised our plans. We met with Ms. Parker and brought a set of revised plans showing some of her concerns were addressed. We presented our vision for the space. This is not just a restaurant with a patio space that is looking to cash in on the tourist season, this is a culmination of several years of planning and following a dream that began 10-15 years ago. We are attempting to launch a national brand and do it for the first time here in Saratoga. We have developed an idea of what things are supposed to look like. What we want as an environment. It not ear splitting music. It is a relaxing spot where folks can come, sit across the table from one another and have a conversation without shouting or cupping their hands. This is already done throughout Saratoga and done very well. That is a niche that does not need another provider. If we can have live entertainment we will have jazz, classical guitarist, or acoustical music. There is not another brew pub in Saratoga. I thought we were making progress. She states music should end 10 PM during the week and 11PM on weekends. I accepted those hours as reasonable. We discussed the frequency of City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Meeting Minutes – July 13, 2011 - Page 9 of 12 the brewing. We will be brewing only 1 x week. The brewing process itself or at least a portion of the brewing process that may cause odor only occurs for 90 minutes one time a week, which is pretty insignificant. At the end of the meeting I offered to put everything in a letter which I have done and sent her the letter on May 17th. In the letter I asked if everything makes sense and if it is as we agreed it would be helpful if you could put a letter together to present to the Planning Board. I was proceeding on the premise that these issues were dealt with to her satisfaction. I received a call the other day regarding noise concerns from live entertainment remain and also she remains concerned with the placement of the air conditioning units as well as the trash receptacles. I tried to brainstorm to come up with a solution to the air conditioning issue and one solution might be for us to put our unit in the same area as the Adelphi has. We have tried to build an arbor over the top of the trash receptacles so that they would be essentially hidden. The issue was odors and we have contracted with Springer Waste to pick up our garbage 6 days a week. So we are not going to have large quantities of trash sitting around for an appreciable amount of time. Secondly, if the Adelphi's customers can smell garbage I would imagine that our customers can smell garbage. I don't know too many successful restaurants that have the odor of garbage permeating throughout the facility I think I share the same interest in assuring that the garbage remains not offensive. The trash receptacles are very easy to clean and we will take responsibility to keep them clean. With respect to noise I also have a vested interest in keeping it quiet or reasonably quiet since we own the building in front of the brew pub and it is completely occupied. The tenants in our building range in age from 28 – 82 years old. We have pharmacist, and engineer, a professor and the only reason I point that out is because these folks have to wake up early in the morning. I don't have a track record, this is the first time and we are trying to build a national brand and it is a strong belief with the folks on our team that you can't build a national brand with a great reputation if you don't even have a good reputation in your backyard. We take the responsibility to act as good citizens and neighbors very seriously. We are willing to make any reasonable concession that we can to ensure that we are not impacting the Adelphi Hotel. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman, stated I applaud you for your honesty and for the fact that you understand that you need to be a good neighbor not only to your neighbors but you committed if you own the apartment building. This project has come a long way. Other comments from the Board. Amy Durland stated she agreed, and was really impressed with the narrative and you had a number of excellent explanations about a number of aspects of the project which were helpful to me and understanding the constraints of this project. I am interested in hearing what the audience may have to say but it seems to be in general you are making a real effort to meet people halfway and it is hugely appreciated. Philip Klein stated what about putting the air conditioning units on the roof. Steven Rowland, Architect stated we will be putting some equipment on the roof. We probably do not have enough of room to get it all on the roof. That is mainly because of distance separations that we have between where have to have fresh air intake for other portions of the air conditioning as well as any exhausting that we have. There are distance separations between those things so we end up not having enough room to put it all. We also have kitchen exhaust and HVAC equipment. There will not be enough room to house the condenser and compressor units which we are looking to place on the rear of the property. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated those items can be baffled and sound attenuated. Steven Rowland, Architect stated they can be and I already have noted that. We will look at those products for the benefit of all concerned. Philip Klein asked about venting and installing a fan on the brew pub. George DePiro, brew master stated it would not dissipate the aroma any faster. When a fan is put into a kettle stack, that is usually done to increase the draw, if you are not getting enough evaporation. The goal of the boil is to City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Meeting Minutes – July 13, 2011 - Page 10 of 12 evaporate off about 5-10% of the liquid in the kettle. The stack could be made somewhat high. I am the brew master of the Pump Station in Albany. The visitor center is right next door to us and my kettle stack exhausts very close to their air conditioning systems and in 12 years they have never complained. The aroma from the kettle is not offensive at all. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman asked if anyone in the audience would like to speak regarding the application of the Martell Brothers Brewing Company. Sheila Parker, I am the owner of the Adelphi Hotel, 365 Broadway. This thing is going to impact me tremendously because of the noise although possibly Chris and I can work out a plan where he can sign off on closing at 10 PM every night. Noise is the biggest issue and also the odor. I don't know if they are minimizing this to get this thing through or not. It is going to be right on Broadway in the middle of downtown Saratoga. My property line is right on their property line. I have 20 hotel rooms overlooking this whole thing. Those smells and odors are going to come right into my rooms. I can't imagine that. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman asked if Ms. Parker has made a trip to the site downtown that this gentleman has just spoke about. Ms. Parker stated she has not. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated that might be beneficial. Ms. Parker stated she will. Also when I wrote the letter I did not realize that there were going to be 8 trash barrels right underneath our windows. The condensers for the air conditioners which will be very loud. A lot of odor and noise right on the property line. Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman stated this applicant is not requesting a use variance this is an allowed use. This applicant is also going to have an outdoor patio, so if that noise is offensive to you it likewise is going to be offensive to anybody who is trying to sit out on the patio. We have seen baffling which is very effective. Make a site visit. This application will stay open. Keep up the good work. Amy Durland stated she would be very interested in knowing what the lighting concept would be in terms of keeping it down facing. Landscaping and the greening of the site and a garden type concept was noted in our agenda notes. Jason Tommell stated lighting will be one of the last things we discuss. We will send you a rough conceptual drawing of the landscaping and trees and plants and will act as part of the storm water treatment. 11.031 246 WEST AVENUE, 246 West Avenue, sketch site plan discussion of residential buildings in the Transect-4. Applicant: Mike Dickenson Agent: Bill Lucas Jason Tommell, Tommell and Associates Jan Becker, Bread Loaf Corporation Applicant stated they have recently appeared before the DRC. Mr. Lucas gave a brief overview of the project. There were many concern voiced regarding the previous project. There were no historical aspects. We thought we would try this project on a reduced scale only 16 units. We would page homage to the history of the area. The Pitney Farm and the historical plaza along the bike path. We thought this would be a strong marketing aspect. Jan Becker, Bread Loaf Corporation, Middlebury Vermont, we are architects and planners. It has been very helpful working with Jason Tommell. Jan gave a power point presentation and also has available a 3-D model for review. City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Meeting Minutes – July 13, 2011 - Page 11 of 12 This site has presented many challenges due to the very small limited frontage, and the tree buffer and the bike path. Broad and open views along West Avenue. We will preserve the pedestrian nature of this street along with having the views of the beauty of the Pitney Farm. There will be a 3 story building and a two story cottage toward the back of the site. Parking will be under cover. The mechanicals will be sited at the back of the site. We have a very prominate façade. We would need to reach an agreement with the City in regards to the plaza type area we are trying to create here. We are looking to creat some type of marker or storyboard telling about the area. DISCLOSURE: Dan Gaba's wife is a Pitney and his father in law is one of the owners of the Pitney Farm. Philip Klein asked where visitor parking would be located on the site? Discussion ensued regarding parking. Amy Durland stated this is a Transect zone and the original concept for the transect zones was to de-emphasize the automobile elements of it. I personally do not have a problem with that equation. There is some merit to what Phil said about where are people going to park when they come to visit but I wouldn't want to see too much more of it devoted to parking. The idea of Transect zones were they were located in the areas of the City where the vision was anticipated there would be less of an emphasis on driving everywhere. I would hate to see us go overboard on the parking issue. The Board gave the applicant some suggestions and ideas on what to bring back to the Board for their next review. APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES: Clifford Van Wagner, Chairman requested approval of minutes of the June 22, 2011 meeting with corrections as submitted. Dan Gaba made a motion to accept the minutes of the June 22, 2011 meeting with corrections or additions. Seconded by Philip Klein. VOTE: T. Lewis, Vice Chair, in favor; A. Durland, in favor; P. Klein, in favor; D. Gaba, in favor; C. Van Wagner, Chairman, in favor Absent from the 06/22/2011 Meeting H. Pinsley MOTION PASSES 5-0-1 MOTION TO ADJOURN: There being no further business, Clifford Van Wagner adjourned the meeting at 10:55 PM. Respectfully submitted, Diane M. Buzanowski Recording Secretary Approved: 7/27/11 City of Saratoga Springs Planning Board Meeting Minutes – July 13, 2011 - Page 12 of 12