Planning Board

PLANNING BOARD MINUTES DRAFT WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 30, 2023 6:00 P.M. CITY COUNCIL ROOM CALL TO ORDER: Mark Torpey, Chair called the meeting to order at 6:00 P.M. PRESENT: Mark Pingel, Chair, Charles (Chuck) Marshall, Bill McTygue, Kerry Mayo, Patty Morrison, Mark Torpey via Video Conference. ABSENT : Todd Fabozzi STAFF: Susan Barden, Principal Planner, Leah Everhart, PB Legal Counsel, Mark Nadolny, Creighton Manning Mark Torpey turned the Chair role over to Mark Pingel. Mark Pingel and the board thanked Mark Torpey for his many years of service as Chair of the Planning Board. A. APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES: There were no minutes to approve. VOTE: MOTION PASSES : B. POSSIBLE CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS: NOTE: The intent of a consent agenda is to identify any application that is “approvable” without need for further evaluation or discussion. If anyone wishes to further discuss any proposed consent agenda item, then that item would be pulled from the “consent agenda” and dealt with individually. C. PLANNING BOARD APPLICTIONS UNDER CONSIDERATION: 1. #20230216, 118 Woodlawn Special Use Permit. 118 Woodlawn Ave., 121-125 Woodlawn Ave., Special Use Permit for a private/social club in the Urban Residential – 3 (UR-3) District. 2. #20230245, 118 Woodlawn Site Plan Review of a private/social club and associated site work in the Urban Residential – 3 (UR-3) District. 3. #20230524 , 12 Ballston Chipotle Site Plan. Site Plan Review of a proposed 2,344 sq. ft. restaurant with outdoor seating and associated site work in the Neighborhood Center (T-5) District. 4. #20211081 , 126 West Ave. Site Plan Review. Site plan review of a proposed mixed-use development, including office and residential units in the Transect – 4 (T-4) District. 5. #20230861 , 400 Louden SUP Unitarian Universalist Congregation. Special Use Permit for a place of worship in the Rural Residential (RR) District. 6. #20230919, 3376 S. Broadway Treehouse Brewing Special Use Permit. Special use permit for outdoor dining associate with micro-production of alcohol and an eating and drinking establishment in the Gateway Commercial-Rural (GC-R) District.  1. #20230216 , 118 Woodlawn Special Use Permit. 118 Woodlawn Ave., 121-125 Woodlawn Ave., Special Use Permit for a private/social club in the Urban Residential – 3 (UR-3) District. Mark Pingel, Chair said there have been many meetings and iterations on this project with the applicant and they have heard from the public many times. Mark said his expectation tonight is to complete the process of collecting data so the board can consider and decide. Mark said they will follow this process: Presentation from the applicant. Question and answer segment. Public Comment, at which time the board will have all the data they need to decide. The public comment will be closed, and the board will have a discussion and will decide how to proceed – resolutions, future consideration, etc. Leah Everhart, Counsel noted that once the public hearing is closed, the board can further discuss with the applicant but there is no further opportunity for the Public to speak. John Cannie , Snyder, Kiley, Toohey, Corbett & Cox represented the applicant EC Woodlawn Van Dam Property, LLC. Also present for the applicant are Frank Palumbo, PE & Melissa Currier , Alana Moran, PE Traffic, Brett Balzer, AIA, Dennis McGowan RA . John Cannie presented a narrative on the project and went on to responding to the open issues: 1. Parking – they are fully UDO compliant across the street. Have previously discussed a lease on a property nearby, off Long Alley, which will provide an additional 10 spots. They are offering valet parking from 5:00 p.m. to closing on Fridays and Saturdays (peak hours). If there’s a need for further overflow parking, the applicant shares common ownership with 395 Broadway (commercial property) with around 50 extra parking spots to be utilized by the valet. 2. Hours of operation – they would like to keep the hours of operation 8 a.m. to 10 p.m. Sunday through Thursday and 8 a.m. to 11 p.m. Friday and Saturday because this is a businessperson’s club, and they want to be open during regular business hours when people have meetings. This is the focus of the club. 3. 119 Woodlawn – single family structure across the street that shares common ownership with the applicant. Had discussed renovation previously if approved but the applicant has decided to repair or restore it either way. 4. Deliveries – all deliveries will be made by personal vehicles that will park in the Woodlawn parking lot. They will unload it there and bring it across the street. No 18 wheelers, no large trucks. 5. Number of guests – previously consented to a maximum of 75 members and guests. A staff person will be assigned to count heads every day, including reservations for dining. 6. Intersection at Woodlawn and VanDam – a consented item was rectangular rapid flashing beacons (RRFB) to be placed at the current pedestrian crossing (applicant agrees to pay for and install) whether initiated by the pedestrian or passively triggered. Not proper location for another streetlight. 7. How does the use fit in the neighborh ood – in a UR-3 zone but doesn’t truly sit in a UR-3 neighborhood. From Broadway to Clinton every corner lot is either commercial, multi-family residential or non-conforming use. 118 Woodlawn is another one of those lots. John said a special use permit is more in fit with the zone than any of the other options. There are seven social clubs throughout the city in various districts (UR-2, UR-3, UR-4). This zone is in a grey zone and needs to be flexible. Has been legislatively determined by the City Council by adopting the UDO that this use fits in the zone. 8. Alana Moran, Traffic – A. Safety of VanDam & Woodlawn Intersection - data from three years pre-Covid shows there is an existing pattern of crashes for vehicles traveling northbound and westbound. Based on field observations the pattern is most likely caused by northbound cars stopped on Woodlawn looking to their right to make a left turn or to drive through, and the queue that’s backing up from the Broadway intersection is blocking that line of sight. Possible mitigation measures: 1. The City could add a secondary stop sign on the northbound approach on the left side (currently one on the right) to emphasize the need to stop. 2. Take some space from the westbound lane and re-stripe City of Saratoga Springs – Planning Board Minutes – November 30, 2023 - Page 2 of 16 the roadway so that vehicles can’t queue in that location. There’s currently a “Do Not Block Intersection” sign area on VanDam that could be extended out giving more sight distance to the vehicles that are waiting, looking to the right. 3. The City could restrict turning from Woodlawn Ave. northbound. They also pulled data from pandemic to now. During the 6-year period (3 years pre- Covid to now) there were no pedestrian crashes. Alana added that the RRFB’s would be helpful for pedestrians crossing at that location. Bill McTygue said one of the shortcomings of the traffic analysis is that it’s a desk analysis. Alana said they had counts at the intersection. Bill said the tractor trailers in that area monopolize the VanDam St. corridor and he’s not sure that the traffic analysis took that into consideration. It’s very dangerous. Alana said the traffic and crash analysis considered everything that’s on the roadway – bikes, pedestrians, cars, trucks. She said the crash analysis did not show that heavy vehicles were a particular problem. Kerry Mayo asked when the church ceased operations. Alana said in 2022. Their crash evaluation is from 2017 to 2021 which would include any activity at the church. Patty Morrison noted that the RRFB’s will back up traffic onto VanDam. Mark Pingel said they had an independent engineer look at the traffic analysis and they had several questions which were presented by Mark, Engineer:  Wait times for entry – up to the City to address the existing issue. Alana has given the city alternatives to consider. Mark said the stop sign is a good measure – will put emphasis on stopping. Mark said he thinks improving the sight lines would decrease the crashes the most. The proposed project is not going to increase the queueing between Broadway and VanDam. Mark said the city could implement the left turn or through restrictions for the time of day – most right-angle crashes (6 out of 10) occurred between 2 and 6 p.m. Could focus on the worse case time of day to limit left turns. Could go one-way for some of Woodlawn (VanDam to Walton). Mark said it wouldn’t have a large impact on the residential neighborhood because it’s a short block without a lot of driveways. Mark said there are alternatives, but he would recommend that the city do an assessment to make sure that the adjacent street could handle the relocation of that traffic (Clinton St.). He noted that there is a traffic light on Clinton so you would be using a controlled device versus an uncontrolled intersection. Mark said Creighton Manning has addressed the city’s concerns and they have come up with several options that the city could consider addressing an existing issue. Bill McTygue said the street network on the west side of the city is very limited connectivity compared to the east side of the city. It’s easier to traverse on the east side of the city. Patty Morrison asked how the board can decide tonight considering the city would have to play a part in the mitigation measures. Leah Everhart said they never really know how the city will address a current problem before it does so. Leah said there is a current condition with estimates of how much traffic would be added and the board needs to analyze this use at this location using the criteria in the UDO. Mark Pingel asked Alana and Mark Nadolny, Engineer what contribution this project would make to the traffic problem. Mark Nadolny , Engineer said they studied how long it takes to make a move in the intersection. For example, it takes about 6.5 seconds to cross the intersection. Seven and a half seconds to make a left turn. The applicant provided a gap assessment and there are enough gaps to service the cars. There will be increased delays but that will happen whenever you increase traffic to a roadway. The gaps were measured not estimated. Mark Pingel asked how many cars go over the intersection in an hour. Alana said during the p.m. peak hour the total intersection volume is 871 (of those 75 are on Woodlawn), about 800 vehicles on VanDam. The gap analysis looked at the number of gaps in that same time frame. There were 55 gaps greater than 6.5 seconds and 55 gaps greater than 7.5 seconds for the crossing or left turn maneuver. Patty Morrison asked if this was a newly formed not-for-profit and its purpose. John Cannie said it’s a to be formed not-for-profit. It’s not a charity, not a 501C3. All the funds that are generated would go back into the not-for-profit that is owned by the members. John said it will operate similarly to any private country club where the members are the owners. The SUP would only be in place if it is leased to a not-for-profit company. A for-profit entity will own the property and a not-for-profit entity City of Saratoga Springs – Planning Board Minutes – November 30, 2023 - Page 3 of 16 will lease it from them. Patty asked if that definition conforms with the UDO. Leah said the definition focuses on the entity that’s operating the facility with no reference to ownership. Patty asked what John meant by a “grey area”. John said it’s not cut and dry in the comp plan like in the zoning code. It’s an area that’s on the comp plan map that is meant to be fluid. It sits between two different sections, can be flexible. PUBLIC COMMENT: Julie Slovik, 122 Woodlawn Ave. – Items not posted – Letter from 11/1 from VBH refers to Creighton Mannings technical review memorandums dated 10/11 & 10/31. Attachments A, B & C. In the spirit of full disclosure, they should have been posted for the public. A letter submitted to the Board today was not posted. The applicants’ trip generating study accounts for what they consider peak times – Saturday midday and weekday p.m. They didn’t account for the volume created at breakfast, lunch, and other times of the day. Neighbors can attest to the high volume of traffic outside of their narrow, limited study. None of the studies consider alcohol consumption on premises and the impact on the intersection, neighborhood, etc. The use conflicts with criteria #3 which ensures our neighborhood should have safe pedestrian and vehicle access, circulation, and parking. Saratoga struggles with overuse of alcohol and Julie would like the application to be denied preventing that from coming to their neighborhood. There have been no conversations between the applicant and the neighbors regarding the use of the building. The proposed trees and parking lot are appreciated to protect neighbors from noise and light, but the applicant has not proposed a solution to Julie regarding the impacts to her living next door. She suggested arborvitae along the side the church to mitigate some of the noise. With Bolster no longer as an exit there will be increased vehicle traffic entering and exiting from Woodlawn. The lights of the exiting vehicles will shine directly into Julie’s living space. The commercial restaurant will be adjacent to her home and will vent causing smells and exhaust. The particles will land in her house and backyard. The commercial kitchen could be placed on the other side of the building which would protect her home from the noise and fumes. Criteria #2 states “the use should not negatively impact the density, intensity and compatibility of the use with this neighborhood and community character”. Julie said the applicants are in direct conflict with these criteria. The above-mentioned issues are not compatible with the neighborhood and will negatively impact those living nearby. She said if this project is rejected, the church will likely go to ruin. Why not allow a two-family residence that would fit within the neighborhood. Julie asked the applicant why the club has to be open on the weekend and long hours into the evening if it’s meant for business professionals. Julie said the applicant has said that they will limit occupancy to 75, maxing membership to 200, no outdoor activities and no events. Julie asked the board what would happen if they didn’t adhere to these rules. Will there be fines? Will they be shut down? Can they pay fines and continue to operate outside the terms they agreed to? Julie said she doesn’t understand how they can transfer their food and alcohol in regular standard vehicles. Julie made a closing statement about why the club would be a detriment to the city and asked that the special use permit be denied. Pat Brereton, 14 Vermont St. said he and his wife are opposed to the granting of the special use permit for this site for the reasons submitted in a letter to the Planning Board. Pat said they also own 58 Woodlawn Ave., across the street from the municipal parking garage. He said he’s in his office between 7 and 8 a.m. and from that time until around 1:00 p.m. delivery vehicles which are servicing the Country Corner Café (next door to Woodlawn) and the restaurant next to the Country Corner Café. Pat said the big trucks exacerbate the problem for traffic flowing north. People coming out of the applicant’s parking lot would complicate deliveries. Pat said while it may be a “social club” he’s inclined to call it a bar and restaurant and it will generate a lot of traffic and undesirable features for his neighborhood. For those reasons Pat is against the proposal John Brueggemann , 52 State Street said he’s distressed thinking about what this use will mean for the neighborhood, pedestrians, people on bikes, people walking dogs, young and old people driving and the impact on the intersection. John said the intersection is very dangerous and he hasn’t heard a single idea that will alleviate the problems there. Valet parking helps with parking, but cars are still City of Saratoga Springs – Planning Board Minutes – November 30, 2023 - Page 4 of 16 coming and going. The blinking lights for pedestrians is a good idea for pedestrians but cars coming down Route 50 turning right onto VanDam heading west toward the hospital race around that corner. They’re either going to stop because the light’s blinking and back up across the intersection towards the mall or they’re not going to stop. Adding a stop sign on Woodlawn will not do much in his opinion. Adding more space to the intersection to keep from blocking will only cause traffic to back up further to the west on VanDam – will make the gridlock worse. John said every car that’s added exacerbates the problem - queueing, circulation, danger and compromising a residential neighborhood. It was said that “cars will find a way”. John said they’ll find a way through his neighborhood. He can’t avoid the intersection because he lives there. John said Bolster Lane is very tight and should not be made one- way. John asked the board to consider their own guidelines – safe and efficient pedestrian vehicle circulation and parking. John said no one in the neighborhood wants this permitted use. Corbin D augherty, 44 Granite St. , said he is opposed to the proposed social club on Woodlawn. There are 12 kids living on Granite St. ages ranging from one to fourteen. Corbin said they are a very active neighborhood with their children on bikes, etc. The property on Woodlawn is not zoned for a private social club. The current intersection at VanDam and Woodlawn is dangerous and will only be made worse. If Woodlawn were to be considered for one-way traffic, the alternate route – north on Woodlawn, left onto Vermont and then on to Clinton to go south. Corbin said he almost gets broadsided once a week when going from Vermont where it merges with Clinton with people going to and from Skidmore. The use will certainly put all of the neighborhood kids in harm’s way because the traffic would be routed right through residential neighborhoods. Corbin said if the use is approved it will tear apart the fabric of the surrounding neighborhoods and he implored the board not to approve the project. Matt Ryan, Woodlawn Ave. – 100 yards north of the intersection. Matt said this is an audacious project that has been thrust upon this board. The corner is dangerous to begin with. The city is studying how to re-route the twenty-eight 53 ft. trucks that go down the street in an hour. Matt said they’re already “spinning a saucer on a stick” and asking that another saucer be added. Matt said the board are great public servants, but he’s astounded that the project has gotten this far. Matt said he will not allow his daughter to drive down that street because it’s so dangerous. He said the board should think about doing no harm. There is a possibility for harm here – life and limb. Allen Turkheimer , 158 Woodlawn Ave. opposite Matt Ryan. Allen noted VanDam is the main ambulance thoroughfare to the hospital. Allen said the applicant was interviewed by Saratoga Today and commented that he would do nothing to harm Saratoga and its residents. Allen said the applicant owns other properties in Saratoga that are more amenable to being a social club. One property is on South Broadway between MBT and the parochial school which could provide underground parking. Also, there is plenty of space further south on So. Broadway where the old diner was and would not impinge on a homeowner area. Allen said his feeling is that this project should be turned down. If this project is approved, Allen said every homeowner (200-300) in the area should apply to the City for a reduction in taxes because it de-valuates the area. Allen said the project doesn’t belong there. Deliveries will not be made in private cars; they’ll be made in trucks. It’s a travesty, a mistake. Allen said they should clean up the act, move it somewhere else, build 3 or 4 houses on the empty lot where the parking is and change the church into a two-family condo, like what was done on Circular St. Daniel Chancelon , 70 Railroad Pl. said he has grandchildren in the neighborhood and this project would devastate the area. Daniel said it will also negatively affect property values. He said any project that increases pedestrian traffic across one of the City’s most dangerous intersections has got to be rejected, blinking lights or otherwise. Daniel said he went for a walk with his wife in June of 2021 up to the corner of Congress and Broadway, waited for the stop light that controls traffic to turn green and they both got run over by a truck. He spent three weeks at Albany Med., three months in a wheelchair, two months with a walker, and will never totally recover. Daniel said his wife has a brain injury and will not totally recover – all because people don’t stop. Daniel asked the board to reject the proposal. City of Saratoga Springs – Planning Board Minutes – November 30, 2023 - Page 5 of 16 Ann McCaffer , 4 Alger St. said her concern at the intersection is the staging. This property faces VanDam, and people are not going to use the door on VanDam, they’ll use the door on Woodlawn. If valet parking were added, where would they stack those cars? They will back out onto VanDam. Ann said the same with deliveries, they’ll stop traffic to cross from the parking lot. Ann said people from Woodlawn Avenue park their cars on her street when there’s snow, and/or opposite side of the street parking. She’s concerned about the congestion on Woodlawn, especially when there’s snow. Valet parking for four hours and 75 people coming for dinner equals 15 people in the kitchen to serve those people. Now you’re at 90. With those people going in and out, how is that not going to increase the traffic significantly at that intersection? Children walking up and down those streets need to be considered. Kathy Allen – her daughter and her daughter’s husband live at 6 Alger St. Kathy said she’s been a resident of Saratoga since 1979 and has been very active in the community. Kathy said she’s open- minded but doesn’t see the benefit to the people in the neighborhood that it’s going to affect so much. If the project is approved and the city can guarantee that the applicant is going to do what they say – properly manage cars, leave the community safe and walkable, and that there would be some type of enforcement, and it doesn’t negatively affect the neighborhood and change the nature of the community, then that’s fine. Kathy said she feels there will be unintended consequences that all the neighbors are going to have to live with, they will bear the brunt of it. (No name) 1 Alger St. speaker has an 8- and 10-year-old. His daughter is a softball player, and they practice pitching on Bolster Lane. The speaker said diverting traffic onto Bolster Lane is not a good idea because it’s already a very busy street. He walks to work and crosses the intersection every day, sometimes four times a day and said it is incredible that he’s never been hit there. He said he has had to run for his life to not get hit, especially by tractor trailers that crowd the intersection so that you can’t even cross. The speaker said the applicant is asking to go from a church to a social club/bar/restaurant in a neighborhood that does not have that use. He said the studies showing that there is ample opportunity for additional cars are baffling. If you live in that neighborhood, you know that it cannot sustain additional cars. He bought his house in 2008 and has invested 100’s of thousands of dollars, he believes in Saratoga and the quiet neighborhood where he’s raising his kids. If this club comes in it’s going to drive down property values. He said there are ample places in Saratoga where this type of establishment could be rented. He agrees with turning the property into condos. The board should step away from this project. He said the board shouldn’t be voting tonight because there are still many unanswered questions. The applicant was unable to present what was slated because of technical difficulties. There’s a truck traffic study under way. This is the wrong time to vote on this project. It’s a duplicative project and should not go through. If it does, there’s going to be more accidents. Lisa Arisary , 123 North Street (East side), not in the neighborhood . Lisa said she came tonight because she feels the project has a citywide impact. She believes emergency response should take precedence on that route because it’s the only route coming from the east and north to Saratoga Hospital. Ken Briell, 73 State St. said he is concerned with this proposed use in his neighborhood and that it will set a precedence around the city. Ken said he’s strongly against the use. He said all the solutions for the traffic seems to be answers for adding to the problem. Linda LeTendre , 34 Greenfield Ave. said there’s an issue that hasn’t been brought up – this looks like a class issue. Someone from the 1% coming into a middle-class neighborhood because everything else that’s available to do exactly what they want to do, isn’t good enough for them. Money talks, the rest of us get an inconvenience with a one-way street in our neighborhood. City of Saratoga Springs – Planning Board Minutes – November 30, 2023 - Page 6 of 16 Karen Sosler, 157 Woodlawn said she lives a block from the intersection with her husband, daughter, and dog. The intersection has been a huge issue for her and her family for years. Karen said this is something the city should be addressing even without the proposed social club. Karen said this application will increase the volume of traffic at the intersection and create a lot of issues. She said the applicant mentioned in their presentation that the neighborhood is more akin to the downtown core. She said no one is walking up to that area thinking it’s part of the downtown core. Karen mentioned the barbershop and dress shop don’t stay open late at night or have 75 cars coming in and out – maybe 2 or 3. She said the traffic reports don’t capture what’s really happening there. Those who live there, whether you’re walking or driving, know that drivers don’t stop for pedestrians. Karen said the church that was at that location was wonderful and added to the community with community minded spirit. Karen said the building is unique and she hopes someone does something nice with it and that it’s for families, but a commercial establishment that is just a bar and restaurant in that area is going to ruin the neighborhood. Jen Pas ek, 21 State St. said she submitted several comments online but wanted to touch on a couple of things. She said at the core of the private social club it says that they are not supposed to provide a service that is already being provided by for-profit establishments, and that’s exactly what they’re doing. They are offering to create a club where they’re going to have business meetings and provide food and drinks – what every restaurant in the area does. Jen said we’re going through the minutia, but it just simply doesn’t qualify by the definition of a social club. She said they did a survey and got 98 responses, over 90% said they would not support this project. She submitted the survey online. Jen said she also submitted a video of what the residents there see at the intersection. Cars do not stop and/or block the intersection. Jen said at its core this project doesn’t qualify. Rosemary Ra tcliff, 107 State St. lived here for 12 years and has walked her kids and dog across the intersection many times. She finds it very distressing that there’s even consideration of permitting a use that’s going to involve more traffic that will back up on Woodlawn Ave. and impact the nature of the neighborhood. Rosemary said if it’s considered “grey” there then it should be kept to a use that’s grey, like a multi-unit use rather than something that will bring in events of 75 people. Rosemary said she walked to the meeting tonight with several neighbors, and as they reached that corner there were already cars backed up on Woodlawn. As they reached the intersection there were cars over the striped crosswalk so they couldn’t cross. They had to walk to Broadway to cross the street. Rosemary said It is the Victorian Street walk tonight but every Friday and Saturday night is similar. She suggested that the traffic studies were not done at the busy times on those nights. Rosemary said she hopes the board rejects the plan. Mark Pingel, Chair thanked everyone for their well thought out comments. He said he appreciated the way they were presented and there’s a lot for the board to consider. Mark said public comment provides a lot of value to the board because of the unique perspective that is relevant to the actual context of the application. Mark Pingel, Chair said the board has sufficient data to consider the application. Mark closed the public comment period at 7:40 p.m. and moved on to board discussion. Mark outlined the Special Use Permit criteria the board is required to consider: 1. The special use in the specific location proposed is consistent with the Comprehensive Plan and associated adopted use policies. 2. Proposed special use will not endanger public health, safety, or welfare. 3. The density, intensity, and compatibility of the use with the neighborhood and community character. 4. Safe and efficient pedestrian and vehicular access, circulation, and parking. 5. Existing and future demand on infrastructure, public facilities, and services. 6. The environmental and natural resources of the site and neighboring lands, including potential erosion, flooding or excessive light, noise, vibration, and the like. City of Saratoga Springs – Planning Board Minutes – November 30, 2023 - Page 7 of 16 Mark Pingel said he would like each individual board member to state what they see are critical issues and their response to any of the information they heard today and in previous meetings. Mark Torpey asked Creighton Manning to talk more about valet parking. Mark said there would be additional turns out of the driveway, but he hasn’t seen the additional details. Mark Pingel asked where the additional parking of overflow is located. John Cannie said there’s two lots – one lot will be purchased and leased to the club and is located at the corner of No. Broadway and the other lane east of this property (10 spots south of the site). It will be available all the time for this site and predominately used for employee parking and overflow for members and guests. The additional parking would only be when valet is in use – 395 Broadway – down Woodlawn, cross Church St. and over to Division St. They have co-compliant parking plus 10 overflow parking. John said valet parking was a suggestion by the board. If the board doesn’t like it they don’t need to do it. Mark Pingel said it was suggested to minimize the on-street parking. Mark asked where the cars would pull up for the valet. John said the car would have to pull up as far along Woodlawn Ave. as far as possible. Mark Torpey said he would like to know what documents were not posted on the website and wants to make sure all the documents are available to the public prior to the meeting. John Cannie replied that there are currently windows there that will be filled in with brick so there will be one continuous wall. There won’t be any noise pollution coming out of the kitchen because there won’t be any windows along that wall. The exhaust will be through the roof and straight up. Bill McTygue said he is satisfied with the level of input that the applicant provided and the list of restrictions (17 items) that they are willing to consent to and attach to the Special Use Permit. Bill said this is a complicated special use. He appreciates the list and the definition provided by the applicant. It’s unfortunate that it came in at the last minute today and wasn’t posted on the City’s website. Patty Morrison spoke to the qualification of the project and what Leah said “or, to render a service that is customarily carried on as a business”. She said she would like to better understand the purpose of this club. John Cannie said it is a private club for businesspeople – its members only and their guests. John said that is not a service that is traditionally provided as a business. John said the best example he can give is the Fort Orange Club in Albany, NY. – members only club, predominately businesspersons. Where businesspeople can congregate and trade business ideas, have business conversations and bring their guest/clients to have private business meetings. These are not services that are predominantly carried out by a business. If you go to a restaurant, it’s not private. If you rent a private room somewhere, it’s not private – they ask your name, who you’re booking. Sometimes you want to keep the meeting confidential. There will be membership and dues, likely an initiation. All those dues will go to expenses, there is no profit. John said it’s his understanding that there will be a rental agreement between the LLC that owns it and the club. Patty said she feels the definition is very “grey”. She said it’s not clear that this use meets the qualifications of being a social club with the definition the city has. Patty said she went through the six steps. This impacts the neighborhood. The neighborhood is not part of the downtown core. It’s not a grey area. On page 37 of the Comprehensive Plan, it says that you must consider the impact on the neighborhood. This without question will impact the neighborhood. Page 42 of the Comprehensive Plan says that you must consider the history and heritage. This is an historic district as described in the Comprehensive Plan. Page 48 speaks to “the community form, design and quality”. Patty said there’s a certain character to this neighborhood like what was done with the Church on Circular St., turned it into condos. This is a residential neighborhood – it’s not near the restaurant or Broadway. Patty said item #2 is to consider public health, safety, and welfare. There are safety issues that were discussed tonight – the route for the ambulance to the hospital for example. The traffic study was done during the daytime but there will be business meetings in the evenings. Patty said she lives on the west side and avoids that intersection because it’s very dangerous. This plays into item #5 and the future demands on that infrastructure. Patty said the neighbors need to be considered. Lights will now shine into someone’s home as cars exit the parking lot. John said regardless of the use at that location, if the parking lot is used it will be the same. Patty argued that it wouldn’t be at the same pace as it would be at this City of Saratoga Springs – Planning Board Minutes – November 30, 2023 - Page 8 of 16 facility. Patty said the application doesn’t match up to the character of the neighborhood by the definition the board has been given in the Comprehensive Plan. Kerry Mayo stated that he’s not a traffic engineer nor is anyone on the Board, so they must rely on the applicant and city’s traffic engineer. If they say, there aren’t going to be adverse impacts then the board must rely on that information. Kerry said it’s his experience with private clubs that they are not that heavily utilized. He said his take from the public comment is that people don’t want a bar/restaurant in their neighborhood and he’s sensitive to that. He suggested that out of the 200 members they might come once or twice per week they won’t come close to the 75-member occupancy. There are no special events allowed. Kerry said he doesn’t think staying open until 11:00 p.m. really makes sense. He said if it is a business club it should match up more with business hours. Chuck Marshall said he lives next door to a house that has a use variance for a non-conforming Airbnb, so he is sensitive to all the uses of the neighborhood. Chuck said there are a substantial number of uses that would be permitted in this zone, but you have to take into account that this site is unique in that the applicant owns or controls the only parking that is immediately adjacent and code compliant. A lot of the other uses would require demolition of the property, which would not meet the criteria because it’s in an architectural overlay zone. Chuck asked what the distance was from the corner to the landing because he’s concerned about the stacking with the valet parking. Chuck feels that the one way on Woodlawn is the only true solution to the traffic issue regardless of this application. Chuck said he feels the use does conform to table 8A and does feel it’s a permitted use – the planning board isn’t allowed to make that determination, it’s a code enforcement issue. Chuck said he would support the RRFB’s as that is a need that currently exists. Mark Pingel, Chair said he finds the application to be extremely difficult. When you have 90+ signatures from the neighbors against this application it speaks to neighborhood compatibility. The board is required to review the criteria for the special use permit. Any no vote must be justified within the six criteria. Mark said the traffic study said that the incremental impact of this application would not rise to the level of creating a problem that couldn’t be solved. Mark said that the city has a big problem at this intersection so the burden for fixing that problem can’t be put on the applicant. He said the board has to take the traffic study as their gospel. Mark asked the traffic engineers if there’s any validity to the comment about the evening hours being different from the hours that they studied. Alana Moran, traffic said when they look at a traffic study the idea is to evaluate the conditions when the operations at the site and adjacent street traffic are going to be the highest. She said after 6:00 p.m. volumes drop drastically, so to provide a worst-case scenario they have to look at peak traffic. Alana said it’s not a likely scenario that the worst-case condition would be 75 cars at one time. Mark Nadolny , Engineer concurred that the traffic study looked at the worst-case analysis. The traffic count was from 7:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. or later. It spiked in the morning and evening commutes. The evening commute time was the worst. Mark Pingel said when he looked at the criteria, the two items that caused him the most thought were number 1 - Comprehensive Plan consistency and number 6 which speaks to any excessive incremental impact on the neighborhood – light, noise, vibration, etc. Mark said the issue of intensity of use within the neighborhood and its community character is a valid issue for the board to consider. Mark Pingel, Chair suggested that they not vote tonight and perform a straw poll of the board on whether they are thinking positively or negatively within the context of these criteria. He suggested they draft one or two resolutions to be considered at the next meeting. Leah Everhart , Counsel said they recommend against the straw poll idea because the board will continue to think about their decision until their final vote and may end up thinking about it differently than they do right now. Leah said based upon the board’s comments, two resolutions seem to be the way to go regardless of what a straw poll would reflect. Mark agreed and summarized as follows: There’s a complete list of conditions that would accompany a positive resolution. The positive resolution should consider all of the conditions, which could be modified when reviewing the formal resolution. In terms of the negative resolution, they must make sure that the reasons for denying the City of Saratoga Springs – Planning Board Minutes – November 30, 2023 - Page 9 of 16 application fall within the 6 criteria. Mark said with all the public comments and board comments he’s not sure how that will be reduced into a coherent set of reasons. Mark asked Leah if she had any suggestions about that process. Leah said her and Susan have paid very close attention to what the community and board members have had to say about the application. She said they can put something together for the board to consider and change if needed. Leah said the draft resolutions would be provided ahead of the next meeting to give the board members time to think about their decision and make notations that can be discussed at the next meeting with the board. There was a discussion between Mark Pingel and John Cannie about the public hearing being closed and the time element involved – 60 days. John said because the public hearing has been closed, he’s assuming nothing more is required of the applicant therefore they could be placed on the next agenda. Mark said that is a negotiation that will take place with Susan Bardon and himself. They will look at all the things that need to be done and how much time they’ll need to do a defensible job on the two resolutions. Leah Everhart, Counsel clarified that the Public Hearing is officially closed as of this meeting and that means that no further comments are coming in writing or verbally, even at follow-up meetings, and the clock has started on rendering a determination on the application. Mark Pingel, Chair asked Susan Barden to make sure that all the existing data available is posted to the City’s website. Bill McTygue said he was prepared to decide on the application tonight. He’s concerned about the timeline with the holidays approaching. There have been several meetings on this application where concerned citizens have routinely attended and voiced their concerns. Mark Pingel agreed but said that the board needs to be clear about their rationale in deciding. He feels that the work that would need to be done at this meeting would take several hours to get it right. Leah said the draft resolutions will not be disclosed to the applicant or the public, they are only for the Board’s review. 3. #20230524 , 12 Ballston Chipotle Site Plan. Site Plan Review of a proposed 2,344 sq. ft. restaurant with outdoor seating and associated site work in the Neighborhood Center (T-5) District. Mark Pingel, Chair said the board has been reviewing this application for a while and has the opportunity tonight to act on site plan review. Mark asked the applicant to give a brief recap of the project and the board will see if there are any remaining issues to discuss. Kevin Solli, Engineer, and members of the design team – presented for the applicant. The site is located at 12 Ballston Ave. in the heart of Saratoga. It’s bound by Hamilton St. to the east, Ballston Ave. to the west. The site is approximately .32 acres where several bar/restaurants have operated for many years. Kevin gave the following outline of the project:  2344 sq. ft. Chipotle restaurant  The business will be accessed off an existing driveway on Ballston Ave. and a new driveway off Hamilton St.  23 parking spaces which meet the parking requirements in the Zoning Regulations.  Dumpster along Hamilton Ave. fully screened with fencing, landscaping & plantings (creeping trumpets).  Pedestrian connectivity with sidewalks along Hamilton and Ballston Ave.  Provided a small gathering area with benches and planters to the west of the building.  A patio with approximately 20 seats located along Hamilton St. City of Saratoga Springs – Planning Board Minutes – November 30, 2023 - Page 10 of 16   Submitted a Grading & Drainage Plan (providing stormwater management & water quality improvements) Were able to reduce the flow of stormwater runoff.  All utilities connected within Hamilton Street. Sewer, water, gas, electricity are all below ground.  Traffic impact study analyzing Chipotle driveways & the intersection of Ballston & Hamilton. Operates at level “C” today. Chipotle has no adverse impact on their development. Kevin said they have received relief from ZBA for requirements for build-to lines. Included in the package is a comprehensive set of detailed design drawings and traffic impact study. Kevin said they’ve gone through multiple rounds of comments with the City Engineers, Creighton Manning and feel they have satisfied all of their concerns. Kevin said they are securing an easement from the Bowling Alley for parking. Chuck Marshall asked Leah Everhart, Counsel if she has reviewed the easement and she has not. Chuck said that will have to be a condition moving forward. There is a lawn area between Chipotle parking lot and the bowling alley parking lot. Kevin showed photos of the existing structure and renderings of the future Chipotle building. Mark Torpey ’s comments were inaudible via video. Kevin ’s response – regarding the belt between the two parking lots; there’s a grade between the two parking lots and not much room for plantings. Mark Pingel pointed out that what Kevin was pointing to was an arbitrary boundary that was set between the owner and the owner. Kevin agreed and said that they needed to make sure they don’t impact the zoning compliance for the bowling Alley parcel. Bill McTygue & Patty Morrison had questions about the entrances and parking. Kevin said parking is in the back and there are sidewalks all around the building to walk to the entrance. There are three egress doors – the side, rear, and front. The main entrance is at the corner. Kevin said they wanted to create a nice aesthetic for that corner/intersection. Mark Pingel asked if the Design Review Board has finalized their vote on the project. Patty Morrison asked for a better picture of the civic space. Kevin said it’s on the site plan and landscape plan. He said there’s a tree pit in the middle for shade with plantings around it. Dave Carr, LA Group said it’s not “civic” space because it’s not required but it is meant to be used by the public. The space invites people in and controls where they can go with the plantings. Patty asked that the tree be a substantial tree. Mark Pingel asked why the traffic study took in to account 269 Broadway. Kevin said it was included because it was a project that was approved and not yet constructed. They wanted to get a worst-case scenario from an analysis standpoint. Mark said the County commented “potential conflicts with vehicles entering the property from Ballston Ave. and the two parking places to the south of the entrance”. Kevin said they can designate those parking spaces for employees only. Mark Pingel, Chair said they would perform the SEQRA review using the short form. Will the proposed action result in: 1. Material conflict with adopted land use plan and or zoning regulation – No, or small impact. 2. Change in use or intensity of use of land – No, or small impact. 3. Impair the character or quality of the existing community – No, or small impact. 4. Environmental characteristics that cause the establishment of a critical environmental area – No, or small impact. 5. Causing an adverse change in the existing level of traffic or affecting existing infrastructure for mass transit, biking, or walkway – No, or small impact. 6. Cause an increase in the use of energy and it fails to incorporate reasonably available energy conservation or renewable energy opportunities – No, or small impact. 7. Impact existing A. Public/private water supplies, B. Public/private wastewater treatment facilities – No, or small impact. City of Saratoga Springs – Planning Board Minutes – November 30, 2023 - Page 11 of 16  8. Impair the character or quality of important historic, archeological, architectural, or aesthetic resources – No, or small impact. 9. Result in an adverse change to natural resources – No, or small impact. 10. Result in an increase for the potential for erosion, flooding, or drainage problems – No, or small impact. 11. Create a hazard to environmental resources or human health – No, or small impact. Chuck Marshall made a motion based on information provided by the applicant and this Board’s review of the Short Environmental Assessment Form Part II, Impact Assessment for a Negative SEQRA Declaration. The motion was seconded by Bill McTygue . All in Favor . Vote 6-0. Leah Everhart, Legal Counsel reminded the Board that an easement be provided to the City for review to confirm that it provides for uses that are shown on the site plan. The issuance of the Building Permit would be a good deadline for providing that. Chuck Marshall made a motion that the Saratoga Springs Planning Board issue site plan approval with the condition that the easement be filed and reviewed by Counsel and approved before the issuance of a building permit. The motion was seconded by Bill McTygue . The motion was carried unanimously . Vote 6-0. There was a discussion about written public comments between Mark Pingel and Leah Everhart . A person from the audience had submitted written comments to the Planning Board regarding the Chipotle application. A public hearing was not required. Leah said the public comment period is for the opportunity to speak at a hearing and in writing. Leah said it is her understanding that the Board does not consider written comments where there’s not a Public Hearing. Mark Pingel said that he did review the public comments but did not find them compelling, so they were not included in the Board’s deliberation. 4. #20211081 , 126 West Ave. Site Plan Review. Site plan review of a proposed mixed-use development, including office and residential units in the Transect – 4 (T-4) District. Mark Pingel said the Board has reviewed this application several times and asked Susan if all of the departmental comments from the end of 2022 and July of 2023 had been addressed. Derek Gribulis said he had a letter from LaBella dated August 8, 2023, that says all of LaBella’s comments were addressed, they were the City Engineer. Mark asked if the DPW comments were addressed. Mark said instead of reviewing the project again the Board would discuss the remaining issues on an incremental basis: Derek Gribulis , Cotler Architecture,  Trees – a plan was presented that shows a mix of American Hornbeam and flowering Dogwood along West Ave. and on Grand Ave., in addition to some Sternberg lights per the city detail. At the corner of West and Grand there’s an existing 12” Elm and another tree by the sidewalk that will remain. Wherever there is a red X on the plan that tree will be removed- a variety of 6” Ash and smaller maple trees that have grown together. A new Dogwood tree will replace an existing 8” Maple along West Ave. Patty asked why the existing Maple along West Ave. is being removed. Derek said for consistency with the new plan. It was recommended by the arborist. Patty asked why they would take down an 8” Maple tree to replace it with a 2.5-inch tree. Mark Torpey made an inaudible comment from the video regarding the trees. Patty said the arborist should be made aware that the Board wants to see existing trees that have matured to be left in place. Derek said they are proposing 21 arborvitae trees to screen the adjoining residential property. Patty asked what the distance is between each arborvitae. Approximately five feet. Mark Torpey asked if they would be putting something besides grass in the corner (right of way). He said it looked like there would only be landscaping up against the building. said they are proposing a sidewalk island with plantings-garden area in the center with two benches. Mark Pingel said there can be a maintenance agreement between City of Saratoga Springs – Planning Board Minutes – November 30, 2023 - Page 12 of 16  the city and the HOA. Chuck Marshall said the applicant tried to purchase the right-of-way from the city and they wouldn’t sell, so anything done in that area is in the right-of-way. Mark Pingel noted that there’s a recreation fee that’s required. The Board can waive or modify the fee. He suggested that the board waive the fee and ask that the applicant use that money to put together a landscaping plan for the corner. He suggested that they make the review of that plan an administrative action rather than have the applicant return. Leah Everhart, Counsel clarified that the board would be accepting the fee in lieu of the dedication of recreational lands, not waiving the fee. Mark Pingel, Chair said there are two conditions moving forward: 1. The applicant will review with the city arborist the removal of both maple trees – must be a reason they are being taken down and can’t be kept. 2. There will be additional landscaping at the corner in the right-of-way. A landscaping plan will be submitted to the city for review and approval. Chuck Marshall made a motion to approve the site plan with the two conditions. The motion was seconded by Patty Morrison. The motion was carried unanimously . Vote 6-0. 5. #20230861 , 400 Louden SUP Unitarian Universalist Congregation. Special Use Permit for a place of worship in the Rural Residential (RR) District. Mark Pingel , Chair said the board is at the beginning of the Special Use Permit process with this project, which entails a SEQRA Review and then the special use permit. Mark asked Susan if there was enough information to perform a SEQRA review. Mark said the critical issue was that the conservation easement and design is all consistent. Mark Pingel, Chair said this is an unlisted action. The applicant has submitted a full form. Leah Everhart said this is a coordinated review with the Town of Wilton that Wilton deferred to the city. Mark said the Board can act tonight if there’s sufficient information in the file. Site plan will come after the special use permit. Leah said SEQRA review is done on the entire action, and it has to be done before any aspect of the action can be approved. Mark said he’s under the impression that with the sketch review they’ve done and the drawings they’ve seen that the board should be able to look at SEQRA. Leah said it’s up to the board whether to move forward with the underlying application tonight, but keep in mind that unless it’s waived, the applicant will be subject to both special use permit and site plan. Jeff Anthony , Studio A Landscape Architects/Engineers, represents the applicant. Jeff said the site plan before the board is only the developable portion of the parcel they are buying:  The overall parcel is about 5 acres, 3 acres of which are in permanent conservancy. The buildable portion is approximately 1.9 acres.  The church is about 8,000 sq. ft., about 4,000 sq. ft. per level. Most of the usable space is on the main floor. The basement level is used for the Pastor’s office, clerical office, mechanical rooms, and a large room that could be used for classroom space. The lower-level space will not likely be finished during phase 1 of the project.  Louden Road is to the north where there is a two-way entrance. A loop road goes around the site with the church located at the south/west section of the parcel.  The church is two levels with a basement walkout, the ground slopes away from Louden Road to the south. The lower level of the church faces south. The entry level is at grade at the drop off side of the drop off loop.  There’s a connector that goes to a parking lot from the church with 61 parking spaces (which complies with city requirements).  The octagonal structure at the southeast corner of the property is for future use – possibly a picnic area or pavilion for outdoor activities by the church parishioners. City of Saratoga Springs – Planning Board Minutes – November 30, 2023 - Page 13 of 16   The budget on this project will include Phase 1 – the parking lot built to meet the needs of the attendance at the church (about 35 spaces), loop road, utilities. It will be a completely functional church right away.  There are 11 parking spaces in Wilton which will not be built right away, they will be part of Phase 2.  They are required to go before the Planning Board in Wilton for a coordinated review. They will likely return to that board during site plan review with the City Planning Board.  Jeff said there is no principal building in Wilton for site plan review. They are basically interested in whether Louden Road is adequate to accept traffic from the church. Jeff said Louden Road is flat with good sight distance at their entrance location.  Jeff talked about the connector shown on the plan that runs roughly on the Wilton/City line. This is a city owned right-of-way for a waterline that services Loughberry Lake to bring in raw water during the summer. He said they are cognizant to be very careful not to tamper with that line. The applicant will work with engineering to do further surveying to locate the line exactly and to find out how deep it is. Jeff said they are suggesting a one-way exit at that location which would take you out to the adjacent roadway system to the east, providing for a second means of “egress only” from the property. This would only be done if the city agreed they would want that and will be addressed further during site plan review.  Jeff said they were asked by the city to be cognizant of the views coming into the site from Louden Road. He said they pulled back the parking and will be planting a heavier buffer of evergreen trees along that road in the Town of Wilton portion. Mark Pingel said it should be relayed to Wilton what the city was looking for in terms of rural character. He said ultimately Wilton has the final say.  The County sewer line is on the north side of Louden Road. The applicant is allowed to tap that line which will be a forced line coming from the applicant’s property. The church is lower in elevation than Louden Road.  There is not potable water available so the applicant will need to place a well on their property.  Stormwater management is being handled on-site by Green Infrastructure – they are considering putting in a permeable paver and other green infrastructure type stormwater management practices.  Soil borings from the site from the previous subdivision showed very deep sands (10 to 20 ft) with groundwater very deep and permeable. Very conducive towards stormwater management on site.  The parking lot has 10% greenspace in the islands. Mark Pingel asked about the small narrow area at the bottom of the drawing – part of the conservation easement – will be left untouched. The board looked at a drawing of the overall 5-acre parcel. Mark Pingel asked about the stormwater in their part 1 SEQRA form regarding the groundwater. There is a principal aquifer referred to, but no groundwater issue. Jeff said there are no historic resources, no rare threatened endangered species, no wetlands. The site is partially wooded and partially brush. Jeff said the distance from the developable portion of the south property line to the far south property line is about 250 ft. with no development. Mark Pingel noted that a portion of Bog Meadow Run branches off toward the parcel and asked Jeff if he knew the distance from the applicant’s property and the conservation easement to that branch. Jeff said it’s one subdivision lot deep. He said from the south property line (Conservation easement line) down to the house located in the subdivision is about 60 ft. Jeff said the distance from their developable portion of the site to their property line is about 250 ft. Mark Torpey asked if asphalt is allowed in a setback without a variance. Susan responded that there are two property lines shown. The setbacks are taken from the larger lot, not the conservation City of Saratoga Springs – Planning Board Minutes – November 30, 2023 - Page 14 of 16 easement line. Susan is looking to see if asphalt versus a structure would trigger a variance. Mark Pingel said the setback issue can be discussed at site plan review if it is a problem. Mark Pingel said they will discuss SEQRA. Mark said they should be able to do the Short Form. Chuck Marshall agreed and noted that the justification for doing the short form is that there was a previous SEQRA determination made for the subdivision. Mark Pingel opened the floor for public comment. Rob Jess, 7 Bog Meadow Run which is a 32-lot residential neighborhood where he and his wife have lived for 30 years. His primary concern is secondary optional access connection to Bog Meadow Run. Rob said the speed limit on Louden Road is 45 mph, but people drive much faster. He said when he stops to turn into Bog Meadow Run cars come up so fast behind them that he fears getting hit. Bog Meadow is one way in and out and Rob feels the access road would make it dangerous for the residents and parishioners. Sarah Co rdts, 16 Bog Meadow Run clarified that Bog Meadow is not a road segment, it is a rural residential district, and it is a neighborhood. Sarah presented a letter from neighbors who agree that the access road onto Bob Meadow is dangerous, and they are opposed to it. Sarah added that she doesn’t think the entire project fits with the rural residential area. Toby Toberick , 19 Bog Meadow Run said this is a non-residential use in a residential neighborhood. Regarding the special use permit – “compatible with use within the neighborhood community character”, the proposed use is not compatible with rural residential. Toby is concerned about stormwater basins attracting mosquitos. Toby said the applicant’s paperwork does not reflect that 54% of this lot is permeable and 80% is the standard – that’s of the buildable portion of the lot. Pedestrian and vehicular access is problematic on a high-speed road like Louden Road. Toby said commercial development in a rural community does not meet the standard of rural character. Dr. Moberg, 9 Bog Meadow Run said this is improper use of a residential area which requires a special permit. This is a residential neighborhood, meant for residences. Dr. Moberg said he just got notification of this meeting yesterday from a neighbor across the street. He mentioned the well that will be installed at the project will use a large amount of volume at some point and there may be a problem because the home at 36 Bog Meadow, which is near the proposed church, has had its well go dry twice. Dr. Moberg said the proposed access connection is irresponsible with the speed of the cars in the area. Julie Holmberg , 21 Summer field Lane said she is a member of the Unitarian Church. Julie said a group of the church members walked around the neighborhood, knocked on doors and left information. They also notified people by mail. Julie said they met with four neighbors who were delighted and very glad to hear about the church. Julie said in her opinion the church property is not part of Bog Meadow, it’s off Louden Road. Julie said they are very much looking forward to being in this area and extending a welcome to the neighborhood. Mark Holmberg, 2 1 Summer field Lane said the church was excited about the three acres of conservation. They plan on building as much of a green building as they possibly can – solar panels, geothermal, etc. They want to be able to fit in to the area. Bart Bergbom, 15 Bog Meadow Run said just because the entrance to the church will be off Louden Road it will still be seen from bog Meadow Run. Bart said when he purchased his home 19 years ago, he did not expect to see anything but residential houses. He is against the access point onto Bog Meadow Road. Bart said it’s difficult to get out of Bog Meadow Road onto Louden Road so he would not want signage or trees to block the sight distance. Bart said all the people in Bog Meadows should receive notification that this project is happening. City of Saratoga Springs – Planning Board Minutes – November 30, 2023 - Page 15 of 16 Debbie Co rdts, 14 Bog Meadow said she knew nothing about this proposal. She said Bog Meadow Run is not a good road for more traffic. Debbie is very surprised that this project is even being considered. They are having trouble with their wells. Patty Morrison asked if the guidelines are different for developing residential versus what the applicant is proposing with a church. Susan Barde n said the only restrictions that she is aware of are those that were imposed as part of the conservation subdivision that was previously approved. The project is outside of that conserved area. Patty asked what happens if the board approves the project, but the applicant is unable to get water to the site. Susan said she just learned tonight that the applicant needed to put in a well. She said the site plan application has not been submitted yet. The thought was that there would be municipal connections in that area, so this is new information. Mark Pin gel, Chair said that the gentleman who suggested listening to public comment prior to SEQRA was correct. Mark said if the well water is an issue the board is going to need more information before finalizing a SEQRA determination. Mark told the applicant that they will need a traffic study. Chuck Marshall noted that the elimination of the access road into Bog Meadow Run would eliminate the need for a traffic study. Chuck feels it should be a sight distance analysis because there’s no need for a level of service analysis. Mark said he would like to have another sketch plan review so the board can discuss the traffic further. Bill McTygue said the traffic along Louden Road would be the Sheriff’s Dept./County purview. Bill doesn’t think the applicant should be responsible for a traffic study on a road that is not a city road, and the city has no control over. Mark said he would like to have a sketch plan meeting where the board and applicant can discuss some of the issues. Susan Barden said where the board is right now for a special use permit, you’re asking the applicant to supplement the application and provide additional information. Susan thinks the board should be clear about what they want the applicant to provide. Mark said he doesn’t know if they have enough information to start SEQRA without having a half hour discussion. Susan Barde n said the Public Hearing will remain open but there will not be another public notice. Whenever this application is on the next planning board agenda at a Thursday night meeting, there will be an opportunity to speak. The public will have to seek out the information about the meeting or contact the Planning Department. Mark Pingel, Chair said they will table the project to the next meeting where the applicant t should come back with a sketch plan and the board, and the applicant together will draw up a list of what needs to be done to complete SEQRA review. Mark said line of sight information, speeding, accidents, well information could all be helpful for that meeting. 6. #20230919 , 3376 S. Broadway Treehouse Brewing Special Use Permit. Special use permit for outdoor dining associated with micro-production of alcohol and an eating and drinking establishment in the Gateway Commercial-Rural (GC-R) District. Mark Pingel, Chair asked Susan if the city had received all of the agency responses for coordinated review. Susan said no, so the board is limited on what they can do tonight. Mark asked the representative John Cannie to give the board feedback as to what he sees as the key issues that the board can respond to. Mark said the board got a long form EAF from the applicant and he thinks it’s appropriate to stay with the long form (it’s a type one action so it’s required). Mark said there was also feedback from Sustainable Saratoga. John Cannie discussed what the applicant had received feedback on:  The special use permit is only as it applies to the outdoor dining, not subject to a special use analysis – it’s a principal use. City of Saratoga Springs – Planning Board Minutes – November 30, 2023 - Page 16 of 16   They are removing the Porte cochere after feedback from the DRB. There will not be an over- hang over the off-premises location. John said the back that everybody loved will be very similar on the front.  The entrance will be moved so that the off-premises area entrance will be straighter – less of a zigzag. Chuck Marshall suggested something like a wish bone entrance with a sign directing to off-premises and on campus.  Some of the parking has been adjusted.  John said they have complete sign-off from SHPBO, no historical or archeological issues, they are working on their submission with DOT – none has been submitted before site plan. Matt Mrva, Bohler Engineering said there is some pedestrian connectivity that they have responded to with the updated site plan which they will get further into with the DRB and site plan review. Matt said they are hearing what people are saying and are trying to incorporate them into the updated plan. Chuck Marshall asked if the applicant had considered moving the greenspace area further to the south and having double-sided parking. Matt said they considered equal distribution around the building, but it felt like you’d be sitting in the middle of a huge parking lot. They have a good amount of space to screen the parking and preserve the open space in the central area. Patty Morrison asked what adjustments they made to the parking. John said there’s a wetland on the northeastern corner, so they brought the parking in to make sure there wasn’t any pavement within the 50-foot buffer. There was a discussion about the removal of the porte cochere. Patty Morrison said she preferred it being there because it hid some of the parking. Matt said they have added many plantings which will buffer the parking from Route 9. Chuck Marshall mentioned the pedestrian walkway on the south side of the Crescent Ave. intersection and suggested that the applicant put a sidewalk where the exiting driveway for offsite meets the wrap around driveway. Mark Pingel talked about connectivity. There’s a bike path that goes down the west side of Route 9 to the hotel but crossing to get there is dangerous. Mark said this would be one opportunity for connectivity. He also talked about a potential connection for bicyclists on the south side of Crescent Ave. that would go to the Four Winds Road which comes into the back of the Tree House property. Mark suggested that the applicant talk to the Complete Streets group. Susan said they can request an advisory opinion from them. Mark Pingel said the question at this point is whether the board has enough information to act on the special use permit. Chuck Marshall said his main concern is pedestrian and vehicular access and asked the applicant if they had verbal confirmation from DOT that they can move the southern entrance further to the south. Chuck said from his perspective they have satisfied the safety element of the vehicular access. Mark Pingel said he went to Part II of the Long Form SEQRA and the answer to the first part is “yes”. The board must talk about construction impact, erosion, etc. Can the Board answer that question at this point? Mark doesn’t feel there’s enough information to answer the first question on the form. Mark said without a SWPPP analysis many of these questions can’t be answered. The board needs more information before they can perform SEQRA. John Cannie said they would most likely be submitting the site plan on Monday. Mark said they would need most of the site plan review to do the long form for SEQRA. John said there will be other studies that will accompany their submittal – SWPPP, SEQRA narrative, traffic study. John Cannie said they have now spoken with all the neighbors – Tim Higgins at Saratoga Honda, Homewood Suites, and people from Four Winds. John asked if the board needed anything further City of Saratoga Springs – Planning Board Minutes – November 30, 2023 - Page 17 of 16 regarding the special use permit. Mark Pingel said the board has been focused on the SEQRA which has to be performed first. Mark Pingel, Chair opened the Public Hearing at 11:04 p.m. Kurt Borc hardt, Artisanal Brew Works a resident of the city since 1993. Kurt said his brewery was at 41 Geyser in the City where they operated for 3 years with City issued permits and allowed use of property. After year three there was a change in zoning interpretations, in particular what is an accepted ancillary use of a brewery. The city decided food trucks and using outside areas for consuming beer or live music were not acceptable ancillary uses for a brewery. Kurt said because of that interpretation he spent several hundred thousand dollars to move his business out of the city. Kurt asked that the board keep in mind that a precedence has been set by their predecessors and these decisions about ancillary uses for a brewery should not be ignored. Mark Pingel asked Susan to find that decision for the board. Jay Colamaria , Saratoga Springs resident & Marybeth P olmateer -both work at Four Winds Hospital. Jay said he and Marybeth are representing Leadership from Four Winds. Jay said they just found out about the project yesterday and they need to review this project thoroughly before the board moves on to anything else. They have concerns about the plan itself. Jay said from a philosophical perspective the hospital has always been very thoughtful about taking great care of their patients. The theme behind the hospital is an environment that is soothing, calming, and quiet, where patients can receive therapy through a very thoughtful process. Jay said pavilions, live music and people drinking close to their hospital where people are chemically dependent is concerning. Jay said they’re not looking to stop the project from happening, they just need to review and come up with some mitigation measures to resolve their concerns. Marybeth said that safety is their number one priority. Marybeth said their hospital plan is different, patients are outdoors walking, sitting outside and active. Marybeth said she hopeful that with the mitigation measures in place they can make it work for all concerned. Mark Pingel mentioned that Mark Torpey raised this issue from day one. Mark said they will make sure that Four Winds is one of the forefront issues that are reviewed moving forward. Patty Morrison asked if the Four Winds representatives had any ideas for mitigation measures. Marybeth said they are in ongoing discussions with the Tree House Brewery. Mark Pingel added that acoustic engineers can do wonderful things with sound management. John Cannie said they will be performing a sound study as well. MOTION TO ADJOURN : There being no further business to discuss Mark Pingel, Chair, adjourned the meeting at approximately 11:11 P.M. Respectfully submitted Donna Gizzi, Secretary City of Saratoga Springs – Planning Board Minutes – November 30, 2023 - Page 18 of 16