Planning Board

PLANNING BOARD MINUTES DRAFT THURSDAY, OCTOBER 24, 2024 6:00 P.M. CITY COUNCIL ROOM CALL TO ORDER: Chuck Marshall, Chair called the meeting to order at 6:00 P.M. PRESENT: Charles (Chuck) Marshall, Chair, Mark Pingel, Vice-Chair, Bill McTygue, Anthony (Tony) Stellato, Mike King, Joe Ferrante & Patty Morrison. ABSENT: Kerry Mayo STAFF: Susan Barden, Principal Planner, Leah Everhart, City Counsel, James Sallaway, City Engineer Bill McTygue extended a heartfelt thank you to the board members and planning staff for the kind words and warm thoughts expressed to him and his family over the recent passing of his brother Tom, they are deeply appreciated. A. APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES: Chuck Marshall made a motion to accept the meeting minutes from September 12 and October 10, 2024. The motion was seconded by Mark Pingel. All in favor, motion carried. The meeting minutes from September 26th will have to be returned because there were only four members present for the meeting and there’s no quorum for the vote tonight. B. POSSIBLE CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS: Note: The intent of a consent agenda is to identify any applications that appear to be ‘approvable’ without need for further evaluation or discussion. If anyone wishes to further discuss any proposed consent agenda item, then that item would be pulled from the ‘consent agenda’ and dealt with individually. 1. #20240845 2271 Rt 50 South SUP Extension. Approval of extension of a special use permit for a multi-family residential project totaling 16 dwelling units in the Gateway Commercial - Rural (GC-R) district. Chuck Marshall made a motion to extend the special use permit for 2271 Rt. 50, Saratoga Springs, NY. The motion was seconded by Patty Morrison. Vote: C. Marshall-Y, M. Pingel- Y, B. McTygue-Y, T. Stellato-Y, M. King-Y, J. Ferrante-Y, P. Morrison-Y. 7-0, motion carried. C. PLANNING BOARD APPLICATIONS UNDER CONSIDERATION: NOTE: Agenda item discussion will not begin past 10:00 p.m. 2. #20240590 400 Louden Site Plan Unitarian Universalistic Congregation. Site plan review for construction of an 8,844 sq. ft. place of worship and associated site work in the Rural Residential (RR) district. Chuck Marshall, Chair said this application was on the agenda for September 26th. Prior to that a special use permit and negative declaration were issued on January 11, 2024. He said a lot of the public comment was about whether this project is “lawful” in the Rural Residential District. This use is authorized by a special use permit which has been issued and the period to challenge the SUP has expired. He said the negative declaration that was issued on January 11th is tied to the site plan, so there will be no subsequent SEQRA review. Jeff Anthony, Studio A represented the applicants. Jeff addressed some of the public comments from the last meeting:  Number of cars – they were asked to justify why they need parking for 65 cars rather than 40. They had planned to build 40 parking spaces and the remaining 25 as needed. They were asked at the meeting to reduce that to 40 spaces, which they have done (38 regular parking spaces and 2 handicap spaces).  Too much paving – had a dedicated exit lane off of the circle and a one-way in road that looped around to the drop off. They removed the dedicated exit lane and re-routed the traffic through the parking lot after it passes through the drop-off. The site plan reflects the change.  No plan for future parking  Walkway (crusher run surface) from Bog Meadow to the church parking lot on the city owned right-of-way that exists for the waterline from Bog Meadow Brook to Loughberry Lake.  Trees by the entryway off Louden Rd. will stay and help to buffer the property to the west.  The planting plan will stay the same. Jeff presented two other plans as options. Bill M. said that the applicant has offered reasonable alternatives to the original design and addressed the neighbor’s comments. He questioned the value of the pathway from Bog Meadow and would like to see it removed. He said there’s also a maintenance issue, especially in the winter. He said the site should accommodate parking and not have overflow in the Bog Meadow development. The activities of the church and residential neighborhood should be separate. Jeff said they will have the ability to extend their parking for another 20 cars on the Wilton property if needed in the future. Leah said the applicant would be required to return before the planning board for a site plan amendment in addition to Wilton’s approval for the additional parking. Jeff said their special use permit was based on 65 cars. That’s what was reviewed last year, what the SEQRA determination was based on, and what the site plan showed during that review. That was the basis of that decision by the board. Patty said she sees the pathway as adding value. It’s in line with connecting streets with sidewalks. Maintenance would be minimal, and it serves a purpose. She doesn’t see it as a negative if people need to park on Bog Meadow. It keeps in line with complete streets. City of Saratoga Springs – Planning Board Minutes – October 24, 2024 - Page 2 of 4 Mike K. questioned why so many parking spaces are being sought based on 5% growth for the church when they haven’t grown at that rate in the past. Chuck said the application process doesn’t indicate why you’re doing it. The demand for the church is the church’s decision. There was a discussion about the applicant having reduced the number of parking spaces significantly (about half) as requested by the board at the last meeting. Mike suggested that they build the 18 or 20 parking spaces and get the remainder of the parking allotment ready to be built when the congregation grows. He said he is in favor of keeping the path from Bog Meadow to the church. Jeff shared new figures from the ministry with regard to attendees. There are 91 households with 115-120 people – less than 2 people per car coming to church. As of 2024 their average attendance is 77 with a peak attendance of 100 (Jeff previously said 89) and a low attendance of 44. He said they have been basing their estimates on 2.5 people per car to justify the 40 parking spaces they’re now at. Jeff said they are no longer using the 5% growth for future parking. Mark P. said with the layout presented tonight there are still places to park for overflow parking. The applicant has been responsive to the board’s request to reduce the parking. With regard to the path, it may not be used that much but it is convenient for people who have to park on Bog Meadow. It’s also welcoming to connect to the community. Tony said he likes the plan the applicant presented this evening. He said he thinks 40 parking spaces is the right number based on the attendance. Joe asked about the arrows going both ways in the parking lot. Jeff explained that the access drive coming in provides for one lane coming in for the drop off loop. When they leave the drop off loop they will go into the parking lot. If a person doesn’t want to go to the drop off point after entering from Louden Road, they can turn left into the parking lot which allows for traffic both ways. Joe suggested that the sidewalk on the eastern side be extended to the path if the decision is to keep the path. Jeff said they can accommodate that. Joe said he’s torn about the path; it’s over city owned property, will encourage parking on Bog Meadow and be slippery and used much less in the winter. He asked if the applicant has spoken with mall owners about overflow parking during special events. Jeff said they had not but there’s a steep grade from the mall and Louden Road is very busy. Joe asked how many special events they average per year and if they considered a shuttle for those events. There are 8 to 10 special events per year, and they had not considered a shuttle. Bill reminded the board that the church has a small congregation and is making a big investment. He said the path will be crushed gravel and doesn’t have the stability concrete or asphalt has. He said the path will require maintenance and it’s not reasonable to expect the church to maintain the path in the winter. Because of the liability of the path on city owned land it will be an unnecessary nuisance for the neighborhood and congregation to worry about. Patty said the city needs to start maintaining the paths that they’re responsible for. The city has a complete streets initiative to connect neighborhoods and businesses. She said she’s responsible for clearing her sidewalk in the winter as the homeowner. Chuck said this is different because the path is on city land and would require a maintenance agreement between the city and the congregation. Patty suggested that the path could be posted for seasonal use. Chuck suggested it could just be cleared and be grass. The path would be there if it’s needed. Mark said if the path is not about parking on Bog Meadow to get congregants to church, then he agrees it’s not necessary for a specific path. People will figure out how to get there by cutting through any way they can. He said he thinks the area could be cleared but not improved. After a straw poll of the board members regarding a path, Joe, Tony, Chuck, Mark and Bill agreed with a cleared grassy area. Mike and Patty prefer an improved path. Public Comment: City of Saratoga Springs – Planning Board Minutes – October 24, 2024 - Page 3 of 4 Dr. Moberg, 9 Bog Meadow Run said a petition was signed by over 90% of the Bog Meadow neighbors saying they didn’t want the church to be built there. He said the plan originally had a one-way road going onto Bog Meadow Run from the church, and it was decided that was a safety issue because of people turning onto Bog Meadow from Louden Rd. He said the Bog Meadow Run is 23.5 ft. wide. In the winter snowbanks are plowed to each side and cars parked on the road make it one way only to get through. He feels it’s a safety issue and makes it difficult for emergency services to access. Inaudible name and address, resident from Bog Meadow. He said he doesn’t understand how a large building and parking lot can be built on the church property and still keep within the 20% buildout in a RR District. Chuck Marshall, Chair said what was presented tonight is the preferred layout with 40 parking spaces for which the planning board will have to grant a waiver. The majority of the board would like to see an unimproved path (level with grass) from the parking lot to Bog Meadow Run. The consensus is that the sidewalk should be extended on the eastern side of the parking lot. The applicant will return to the next meeting with drawings that reflect the site plan changes and engineer’s comments. MOTION TO ADJOURN: Chuck Marshall adjourned the meeting at 7:10 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Donna Gizzi, Recording Secretary City of Saratoga Springs – Planning Board Minutes – October 24, 2024 - Page 4 of 4