Muyni
← Back to Sebastopol

City Council

Regular Meeting

Sebastopol, CA · June 3, 2025

MinutesAgenda

Agenda

CITY COUNCIL MEETING AGENDA Meeting of Tuesday, June 3, 2025 Meeting Start Time: 6:00 pm Meeting to be held in Person and Virtual /Remote Participation In Person: 425 Morris Street, Sebastopol, CA 95472 Zoom Link Below: Zoom Link can be used for providing public comment/ Vimeo) is utilized for viewing only of meeting City Council is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting. Topic: City Council Meeting - June 3, 2025 Time: Jun 3, 2025 06:00 PM Pacific Time (US and Canada) Vimeo Link: https://vimeo.com/event/4788702 Join Zoom Meeting https://us02web.zoom.us/j/83776364641 Meeting ID: 837 7636 4641 Passcode: 763100 --- One tap mobile +16699006833,,83776364641#,,,,*763100# US (San Jose) +16694449171,,83776364641#,,,,*763100# US --- Dial by your location • +1 669 900 6833 US (San Jose) • +1 669 444 9171 US • +1 719 359 4580 US • +1 253 205 0468 US • +1 646 931 3860 US Meeting ID: 837 7636 4641 Passcode: 763100 Find your local number: https://us02web.zoom.us/u/keJuLxA2QC COUNCIL PROTOCOLS FOR MEETING: This in person and virtual/remote meeting is compliant with the Governor’s Executive Order allowing for a deviation of teleconference rules required by the Brown Act. Traditional Brown Act and AB 2449 requirements can be utilized for all City Council meetings as long as required notice and posting is conducted per the Brown Act. Please Note the presiding member of the legislative body conducting a meeting or their designee may remove, or cause the removal of, an individual for disrupting the meeting. “Disrupting” means engaging in behavior during a meeting of a legislative body that actually disrupts, disturbs, impedes, or renders infeasible the orderly conduct of the meeting. MEETINGS ARE HELD AT 425 MORRIS STREET, SEBASTOPOL, CA 95472 (SEBASTOPOL YOUTH ANNEX) UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTICED PUBLIC COMMENT Due to the length of recent City Council Meetings, it is strongly encouraged that written comments be submitted to the City Council by sending them by email to: citycouncil@cityofsebastopol.gov with either General Public Comment Written in the Subject Line or the Specific Agenda Item Number or Title Written in the Subject Line. Emails are distributed to the City Council as well as posted to the City Council meeting as public comment. Public Comment questions may be directed to City staff for a response at a later time. CALL TO ORDER ROLL CALL SALUTE TO THE FLAG REMOTE PARTICIPATION UNDER AB 2449 (IF NEEDED): To consider and take action on any request from a Council Member to participate in a meeting remotely due to Just Cause or Emergency Circumstances pursuant to AB 2449 (Government Code Section 549539(f)). Assembly Bill 2302 (2024) (“AB 2302”) revises rules for when members of local legislative bodies may participate in meetings remotely. Specifically, it amends the number of meetings that may be attended remotely for just cause and under emergency circumstances and clarifies the definition of the term “meeting,” for purposes of remote attendance. AB 2302 caps the number of remote meetings a member can attend each year based on the frequency of a legislative body’s meetings: Five meetings per year for those meeting twice a month. PROCLAMATIONS/PRESENTATIONS/INTRODUCTIONS: • Proclamation Proclaiming June 19, 2025, as Juneteenth Day; honoring the legacy of freedom and recommit ourselves to the pursuit of equity, equality, and justice for all • Proclamation Proclaiming June 2025 as Pride Month in the City of Sebastopol STATEMENTS OF CONFLICTS OF INTEREST: Conflicts of interest may arise in situations where a public official deliberating towards a decision, has an actual or potential financial interest in the matter before the Council. In accordance with state law, an actual conflict of interest is one that would be to the private financial benefit of a public official, a relative or a business with which the Councilmember is associated. A potential conflict of interest is one that could be to the private financial benefit of a Councilmember, a relative or a business with which the Councilmember is associated. A Councilmember must publicly announce potential and actual conflicts of interest, and, in the case of actual conflict of interest, must refrain from participating in debate on the issue or from voting on the issue and must remove themselves from the dais. PUBLIC COMMENT FOR ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA (FIRST COMMENT PERIOD): Up to Twenty (20) Minute Time Limit (Two Minutes for up to ten speakers). Additional public comment will be held at the end of the discussion and action items for up to an additional twenty (20) minutes. Mayor has discretion to allow for additional time beyond the 20 minutes allocated for public comment dependent upon the subject matter or number of speakers. Process for calling on Speakers: Mayor or designee shall ask for public comment as follows: Speakers to be called on in an alternate manner (One speaker in person to be called on first; then one speaker remote to be called on second with additional speakers to be called on in the same manner) based upon the time limit. CONSENT CALENDAR: The consent agenda consists of items that are routine in nature and do not require additional discussion by the City Council or have been reviewed by the City Council previously. These items may be approved by one motion without discussion unless a member of the City Council requests that the item be taken off the consent calendar. The Mayor will read aloud the title of each consent item (either full agenda title or a simplified version of the agenda title), and ask if a Councilmember wishes to remove one or more items from the consent calendar; and then open public comment to the members of the public in attendance. At this time, a member of the public may speak for up to two (2) minutes on the entire consent calendar and request at that time that an item or items removed for discussion. If an item or items are removed from the consent calendar, the item shall be placed at the end of the regular agenda items unless otherwise determined by the Mayor. Council Members may comment on Consent Calendar items or ask for minor clarifications without the need for pulling the item for separate consideration. Items requiring deliberation should be pulled for separate consideration and shall be placed at the end of the regular agenda items unless otherwise determined by the Mayor. 1. Approval of City Council Meeting Minutes – Special Meeting Closed Session Meeting Minutes of May 19, 2025 (Responsible Department: Acting City Manager) Fiscal Impact: There is no fiscal impact with approval of this item. 2|Page 2. Approval of City Council Meeting Minutes – Regular Meeting Minutes of May 20, 2025 (Responsible Department: Acting City Manager) Fiscal Impact: There is no fiscal impact with approval of this item. 3. Approval of Resolution Proclaiming June 2025 as Lesbian, Gay Bisexual, Transgender, and Queer (LGBTQ+) “Pride Month” throughout the City, reflecting the city's commitment to inclusivity; Authorizing the flying of the Pride Flag over City Hall During June 2025; and Authorizing use of Pride Colors in the City logo and communications during June 2025. (Responsible Department: Acting City Manager) Fiscal Impact: There is no fiscal impact with approval of this item. 4. Approval of Personnel Actions As Recommended by the Classification and Compensation and Staff Assessment Study (Revised). Approve a Resolution Authorizing the Acting City Manager to: a. Revise the following classifications per recommendations from the recent staffing and classification and compensation studies I. Administrative Technician II. Senior Maintenance Worker III. Maintenance Worker I IV. Maintenance Worker II b. Retitle and Revise the classifications of Laborer to Maintenance Assistant and Assistant Public Works Superintendent to Public Works Operations Supervisor c. Authorize future non-substantive revisions and corrections (Responsible Department: Human Resources Consultant/Administrative Services) Fiscal Impact: There is no fiscal impact to retitling or revising classification specifications. 5. Approval of Annual update Schedule of User and Regulatory Fees for Use in Fiscal Year 2025-26. The includes the inflationary factor (2.76%) that was previously approved by City Council on 9/15/20. The City’s fee schedule is a compilation of fees for City services provided to members of the public. Updating the City’s user and regulatory fees include assuring that fees are set based on current costs and approved cost recovery objectives while providing transparency in the fee structure for the City’s development-related and other municipal fees. (Responsible Department: Administrative Services) Fiscal Impact: The anticipated fiscal impact is a $40,000 increase in General Fund revenues. These adjustments are intended to reflect the gradual rise in costs due to inflationary pressures. The recalibration of these fees is designed to offset existing expenditures and needs, rather than serve as a source of funding for expanded service levels. The upcoming FY 25 26 budget includes $6,300 to engage Clearsource for supporting staff with this annual fee update. 6. Approval of Waiving of First Reading; Introduction of Ordinance of Office of State Fire Marshal Fire Hazard Severity Map. The California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection (CalFire) recently published Fire Hazard Severity Zone (FHSZ) maps designating certain areas as falling within the Moderate, High, and Very High Fire Hazard Severity Zones. Small portions of the City are designated as within the Moderate Fire Hazard Severity Zone. State law requires the City to adopt the FHSZ maps by ordinance. (Responsible Department: City Attorney/Fire ) There is no fiscal impact associated with approval of this item 7. Approval of Budget Amendment for Video Security System for Police Department. This item is to request that the City Council Consider and Approve a budget amendment request for the purchase and replacement of the antiquated video security system for the police department. This purchase was reflected in the 24/25 fiscal year budget and is to be paid for with Police 3|Page Endowment funds. The amendment approves moving the funds from the police endowment fund to reimburse the General Fund for the purchase. (Responsible Department: Police) Fiscal Impact: There is no fiscal impact to the General Fund. $46,008.42 is requested to be moved from the Police Endowment Fund account to reimburse the line item in the General Fund budget. INFORMATIONAL ITEMS/PRESENTATIONS: Informational Items or Presentations are items that are informational only and do not require action by the City Council. Presentations shall be scheduled as necessary for the promotion of an event or service or general information items to the Council and should be limited to ten (10) minutes total in length of item (total length includes questions of Council to presenter and public comment). 8. Informational Item: Presentation by General Manager Amy Conley, REMIF/CIRA This will be a short presentation from the City’s Risk Authority (CIRA) on CIRA Services & Resources and Protecting the assets of CIRA members which the City is a member. CIRA partners with member agencies in developing and implementing risk management best practices and prioritizing pool resources to those exposures with the highest potential for loss. Presentation will include general information on items that affect City premiums. Requestor: Mayor Zollman (City Representative on REMIF/CIRA) Responsible Department: Acting City Manager/Administrative Services Fiscal Impact: There is no fiscal impact with receipt of this item; however, proposed FY 25 26 budget will include increased premiums for the City as follows: Workers' Compensation: 8% General Liability: 21% 9. Informational Item: Presentation on Selecting a Leader: A Common Executive Search Process for City Manager Position (Requestor: Deborah Muchmore, Human Resources Consultant/Responsible Department: Acting City Manager/Administrative Services) Fiscal Impact: There is no fiscal impact with receipt of this item; However, proposed FY 25 26 budget will include funding for City Manager recruitment of $35,000) 10. Informational Item: Year-to-Date Update for the Section 115 Trust for Pension Stabilization Pension Account and Internal Pension Reserve. This report presents year-to-date balances for both the Section 115 accounts and highlights the City’s continued commitment to fiscal responsibility. The Section 115 Trust allows for broader investment options than the General Fund, offering the potential for higher returns while preserving funds exclusively for pension liabilities. (Requestor: Agenda Review Committee /Responsible Department: Administrative Services) Fiscal Impact: There is no fiscal impact with receipt of this item. The one-year return since the inception of the Pension Trust (January 19, 2024 to January 29, 2025) is 7.04%, outperforming the benchmark return of 5.84% over the same period. As of May 18, 2025, the inception-to-date return stands at 7.45%, compared to a benchmark return of 6.31%. 11. Informational Item: Annual update of this Cost Allocation Plan in the forthcoming Budget for Fiscal Year 2025-26. This item conveys the outcomes of an update to the City’s Indirect Cost Allocation Plan. The Plan allocates City overhead costs from the General Fund to other funds such 4|Page as the Water and Wastewater Funds and serves as the basis for an interfund charges for service to reimburse those cost (Responsible Department: Administrative Services/Consultant (Clearsource) Fiscal Impact: There is no fiscal impact with receipt of this item. In the upcoming FY 25 26 budget, the cost allocation plan has identified $4,378,031 in costs allocable to Citywide departments and divisions. 12. Informational Presentation on Elderberry Commons (Police Response) The item is for the Council to receive the report on Police Department Responses to Calls at the newly Opened Elderberry Commons Facility located at 6751 Sebastopol Avenue and provide any feedback to the Chief of Police regarding any concerns or recommendations moving forward (Requestor: Agenda Review Committee/Responsible Department: Police) Fiscal Impact: There is no fiscal impact with receipt of this item; However Sebastopol police have spent 48+ hours responding to calls at Elderberry Commons, equating to about $4149.12. in cost for police time while on site responding to calls. PUBLIC HEARING(s): 13. Public Hearing: To conduct a public hearing on AB 2561. AB 2561 requires public agencies to present the status of their vacancies in a public hearing before their governing body at least once per fiscal year and prior to adopting the FY budget. This item is for the City Council to receive the presentation of City Vacancies for 2025 in a public hearing to fulfill the requirements of the new Government Code Section 3502.3 (AB 2561). As of the date of the posting of this agenda, the City has 9 vacancies and 53 total City positions. The current number of vacancies outlined below is just under 6%, which is well below the 20% threshold set by the law. (Responsible Department: Human Resources Consultant/Administrative Services) Fiscal Impact: There is no fiscal impact with receipt and approval of this item 14. Public Hearing: To conduct a public hearing, Adopt a resolution approving the annual Engineer’s Report, confirming the Assessment Diagram, and authorize the levy of annual assessments for Fiscal Year 2025-26 for the City of Sebastopol Street Lighting Special Assessment District. For Fiscal Year 2025-26, the proposed annual assessment is $35.00 per (ESD) equivalent single-family dwelling. For a single family residential household unit, this amount is an increase from the previous assessment of $32.00 in Fiscal Year 2024-25 (Responsible Department: Public Works/Engineering/Administrative Services) Fiscal Impact: The proposed annual assessment charge of $35.00 for each ESD is anticipated to generate roughly $141,000 in revenue. This amount is planned to be allocated in the Fiscal Year 2025-26 City Budget, with corresponding expenses of about $139,000. It is important to note that the expected revenue does cover the forecasted expenses, leading to an estimated use of the fund balance of June 30, 2026, of roughly $24,300. 15. Public Hearing: To conduct a public hearing on the Capital Improvement Plan for Fiscal Year 2025-26 and note changes to the CIP, if any, and adopt Resolution. (Responsible Department: Public Works/Engineering) Fiscal Impact: The fiscal impact for the FY 2025-26 CIP projects is $10,105,500. in total for special funds (see Global Summary Report, page 4 in the Draft CIP Budget document 16. Public Hearing: To conduct a public hearing on the City Budget for FY 25 26. This item is to request that the City Council's review and consider the Proposed Operating Budget for Fiscal Year 5|Page 2025-26. The process involves conducting a public hearing to gather input from community members, followed by providing comments and/or direction to staff on budget allocations for the upcoming fiscal year. (Responsible Department: Administrative Services) Fiscal Impact: The fiscal impact is reflected throughout the citywide budget and is addressed in the budget message at the beginning of the document REGULAR CALENDAR AGENDA ITEMS (DISCUSSION AND/OR ACTION): 17. Approve and Adoption Resolution for Police Support Services Manager: a. Approve a Resolution authorizing the City Manager to Retitle and Revise Police Records and Support Services Manager to Police Support Services Manager and make future non- substantive changes to related documents, and b. Approve an increase to the associated pay range between 6.94% and 11.16% commensurate with the market data and the increase in duties. Consultant recommends 8%, which represents the increase in scope, effect, and contacts required for the revised position (pay range: $7,292 to $8,863). (Responsible Department: Human Resources Consultant/Administrative Services) Fiscal Impact: The FY 25-26 total Fiscal impact for this item is based on the Council selected pay range and is reflected at each range below and includes the FY 25-26 budget increased insurance premiums of: 8.92% for Workers’ Compensation and 7.87% for General liability, and are shown below, by option, as follows: Market Median (no Sheriff) 6.94% $9,892 Factor Analysis Result 8% $11,395 SPOA Recommendation 10% $14,235 Mkt Median with Sheriff 11.16% $15,905 18. Adopt a Resolution, Amending the Compensation and Benefits Resolution for the Unrepresented Employees/Adopt a Resolution amending Resolution 6457-2022 for the Unrepresented Employees • 3% COLA upon adoption for three positions effective July 1, 2025 • 2% COLA effective January 1, 2026 for same positions. • (Responsible Department: Human Resources Consultant/Acting City Manager) • Fiscal Impact: There is no fiscal impact associated with approving the proposed pay schedule. The salary increase of $21,890 has already been incorporated into the FY 2025–26 proposed budget. Additionally, the projected future increases in insurance premiums, including an 8.92% increase in Workers’ Compensation premiums (approximately $2,556) and a 7.87% increase in General Liability premiums (approximately $1,120). 19. Amendment to City Pay Rates and Ranges: Compensation and Benefits Resolution for the Unrepresented Employees3% COLA upon adoption for three positions effective July 1, 2025 • 2% COLA effective January 1, 2026 for same positions. (Responsible Department: Human Resources Consultant/Acting City Manager) Fiscal Impact: There is no fiscal impact for approving a Public Pay Schedule. The cost of the increases and related insurance premiums has been presented in Item 18 of this agenda and built into the proposed FY 25 26 Budget 6|Page 20. Direction to Mayor or Voting Delegate for Letters of Interest Submitted for the June 12th 2025 Sonoma County Mayors and Councilmembers Association Meeting: Item to be considered: Association of Bay Area Governments (ABAG) Executive Board - 2 Seats (to fill the expiring terms of Susan Adams of Rohnert Park and Stephen Zollman of Sebastopol). 1 primary seat and 1 alternate seat. 2-year term starting in June. The appointment will be taken up by the Board at the June 12th Board of Directors meeting Below is the final count of letters of interest received for the following Board of Directors appointment: Association of Bay Area Governments (ABAG) Executive Board - 2 Seats (to fill the expiring terms of Susan Adams of Rohnert Park and Stephen Zollman of Sebastopol). 1 primary seat and 1 alternate seat. 2-year term starting in June. Letters Received for Primary Seat: Susan Adams, Rohnert Park Frank Quint, Petaluma Letter Received for Alternate Seat: Stephen Zollman, Sebastopol (Responsible Department: Acting City Manager) Fiscal Impact: There is no fiscal impact with approval of this item. ADDITIONAL PUBLIC COMMENT FOR ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA: Two minutes per speaker for up to twenty (20) minutes total for public comments but can be reduced at Mayor’s discretion depending upon the number of speakers or Mayor has discretion to allow for additional time beyond the 20 minutes allocated for public comment dependent upon the subject matter or number of speakers. COUNCILMEMBER(S) REQUESTS FOR FUTURE CITY COUNCIL AGENDA ITEMS CITY COUNCIL/CITY STAFF REPORTS/COMMUNICATIONS/ANNOUNCEMENTS/FUTURE MEETINGS: 20. City Manager and/or City Clerk Reports: (This will be either verbal reports at the meeting, or written reports provided at or prior to the meeting) 21. City Council Reports/Committee/Sub-Committee Meeting Reports: (Reports by Mayor/City Councilmembers Regarding Various Agency Meetings/Committee Meetings/Sub-Committee Meeting /Conferences Attended and Possible Direction to its Representatives (If Needed) on Pending issues before such Boards. ((This will be either verbal reports at the meeting, or written reports provided at or prior to the meeting) 22. Council Communications Received (Information/Meetings/Correspondence Received from the General Public to Councilmembers) CLOSED SESSION: NONE ADJOURNMENT OF CITY COUNCIL MEETING June 3, 2025 City Council Regular Meeting will be adjourned to the next Regular City Council Meeting of Tuesday, June 17, 2025 at 6:00 pm, Sebastopol Youth Annex, 425 Morris Street, Sebastopol, CA. American Disability Act Accommodations/Accessibility: A request can be made orally or in writing, and submitted to the ADA Coordinator by email: building@cityofsebastopol.org or to the City Clerk’s Office so as to avoid delay in reviewing and processing the request. Requests can be made by contacting the ADA Coordinator’s Office at (707) 823-8597, via email at building@cityofsebastopol.org or by mailing such a 7|Page request to the ADA Coordinator’s Office located at 7425 Bodega Avenue, Sebastopol, CA. Note that if you contact the ADA Coordinators Office, via mail, you need to make the request early enough that a response can be timely provided. NOTICE: All Resolutions and Ordinances introduced and/or adopted under this agenda are waived of all reading of entire resolution(s) and ordinance(s). The City of Sebastopol is a general law city formed under the laws of the State of California. With respect to adoption of ordinances and resolutions, the City adheres to the requirements set forth in the Government Code. Unless otherwise required, the full reading of the text of standard ordinances and resolutions is waived. SB 751 Legislative bodies of local agencies must publicly report: (1) any action taken and (2) the vote or abstention on each action taken by each member present for the action at a meeting. If you have any questions regarding this meeting, please contact the City at Email: info@cityofsebastopol.org or citycouncil@cityofsebastopol.org or please call: 707-823-1153. The public is advised that pursuant to Government Code section 54957.5 all writings submitted to the City Council are public records and will be made available for review at City Hall during normal business hours. The Sebastopol City Council welcomes you in person or remotely to its meetings that are generally scheduled for the 1st and 3rd Tuesday of every month. Your interest and participation are encouraged and appreciated. Government Code Section 54953. (a) All meetings of the legislative body of a local agency shall be open and public, and all persons shall be permitted to attend any meeting of the legislative body of a local agency, except as otherwise provided in this chapter. (b) (1) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the legislative body of a local agency may use teleconferencing for the benefit of the public and the legislative body of a local agency in connection with any meeting or proceeding authorized by law. The teleconferenced meeting or proceeding shall comply with all requirements of this chapter and all otherwise applicable provisions of law relating to a specific type of meeting or proceeding. (2) Teleconferencing, as authorized by this section, may be used for all purposes in connection with any meeting within the subject matter jurisdiction of the legislative body. All votes taken during a teleconferenced meeting shall be by rollcall. There are times that the City Council open meetings may not be live streamed due to technical issues; if that is the case, the meeting will be video-taped and uploaded as soon as possible to the City Web Site. In the event of a disruption that prevents the legislative body from broadcasting the meeting to members of the public using the call-in option or internet-based service option, or in the event of a disruption within the local agency’s control that prevents members of the public from offering public comments using the call-in option or internet-based service option, the legislative body shall take no further action on items appearing on the meeting agenda until public access to the meeting via the call-in option or internet- based service option is restored. Actions taken on agenda items during a disruption that prevents the legislative body from broadcasting the meeting may be challenged pursuant to Section 54960.1. COUNCIL PROTOCOLS FOR MEETING RESTATED: This in person and virtual/remote meeting is compliant with the Governor’s Executive Order allowing for a deviation of teleconference rules required by the Brown Act. Traditional Brown Act and AB 2449 8|Page requirements can be utilized for all City Council meetings as long as required notice and posting is conducted per the Brown Act. Please Note the presiding member of the legislative body conducting a meeting or their designee may remove, or cause the removal of, an individual for disrupting the meeting. Prior to removing an individual, the presiding member or their designee shall warn the individual that their behavior is disrupting the meeting and that their failure to cease their behavior may result in their removal. The presiding member or their designee may then remove the individual if they do not promptly cease their disruptive behavior. This paragraph does not apply to any behavior described in subparagraph (B) of paragraph (1) of subdivision (b). (b) As used in this section: (1) “Disrupting” means engaging in behavior during a meeting of a legislative body that actually disrupts, disturbs, impedes, or renders infeasible the orderly conduct of the meeting and includes, but is not limited to, one of the following: (A) A failure to comply with reasonable and lawful regulations adopted by a legislative body pursuant to Section 54954.3 or any other law. (B) Engaging in behavior that constitutes use of force or a true threat of force. (2) “True threat of force” means a threat that has sufficient indicia of intent and seriousness, that a reasonable observer would perceive it to be an actual threat to use force by the person making the threat. How can I provide Public Comment on Zoom? The Mayor will request public comment during the Public Comment period on the agenda and during each Public Hearing and Regular Calendar Item. Once the Mayor has announced the public comment period, please do one of the following. USING A COMPUTER OR SMART PHONE: • Click on the “Raise Hand” feature in the webinar controls. This will notify City staff that you have raised your hand and you would like to speak. • City staff will unmute your microphone when it is your turn to provide public comment. • A prompt will appear to confirm you would like to be unmuted. Once you accept the prompt, you will have two minutes to provide public comment. • Once your public comment has ended, you will be muted again. USING A REGULAR PHONE: • Dial *9 (star 9), this will notify City staff that you have “raised your hand” for public comment. • City staff will unmute your microphone when it is your turn to provide public comment. *6 (star 6) is used to mute/unmute. • You will hear “you are unmuted” and then you will have two minutes to provide public comment. • Once your public comment has ended, you will be muted again 9|Page

Get email alerts for Sebastopol

A daily email when new agendas and minutes are posted.

Report an issue with this meeting