Civil Service Commission

MINUTES OF THE CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION MEETING March 21, 2018 - 8:00 A.M. Members Present: Chairman Jan Naso Commissioner Tom Kot Commissioner Christine Higham Non-Members Mayor Dave Kline Present: Director of Administration Dr. Don Cooper Director of Law Megan Raber Assistant Director of Law John Scavelli Director of Public Service Mike Rorar Councilwoman Carol Kilway ______________________________________________________________________________ The March 21, 2018 Civil Service Commission meeting was called to order. Minutes of the January 24, 2018 meeting were approved as published. Each Commissioner’s packet contained the booklet from the Sunshine Law Presentation that took place here in the City Building on March 7, 2018. Commissioners examined the letter that had been sent to the Law Director from the Board of Education’s attorney regarding the severing of ties with the Civil Service Commission. Chairman Naso commented that his concern was to make sure that what they are requesting to do is appropriate and follows the rules. My first question is, do they want to sever all the relationships between the schools and Civil Service? The letter mentions ORC 4117.08 (B) which explains that testing and grading, rating candidates and the establishment of eligibility lists are not subjects for collective bargaining. So, I’m a little confused by that. Mrs. Raber stated that John Scavelli has done the research on this and has found some cases and has had some conversations with Mr. Britton and at the end of the day we’re still not… there’s not a definitive answer yet. Mr. Scavelli gave a background on what has taken place. This is something that has gone back and forth where we had asked them to do and what this letter was in response to was to justify how this is legal and how they can do it. The letter that we got back doesn’t really answer the question. When pressed, they still haven’t been able to answer the question. Sometimes I’ll call them and won’t hear back from them for a week. I did some work on my own and what I did find is there’s a Twinsburg case where they got rid of Civil Service for the schools. I tried to contact the Twinsburg Law Director and haven’t heard back from him yet. But that was found to be legal, basically they said that they were able to do it under home rule. They said that the schools could hire their own Civil Service Board from whoever else they contract with another city or with the State. They didn’t give any kind of procedure as to how that would work. They can collectively bargain out of most of it which is what they are planning on doing, so they will do that. They’re going to collectively bargain out of promotions, the grievances and all those types of things. That’s all going to be gone and they can do that; that’s perfectly legal. The problem is when they get to this 4117.08 which says that there are certain things that they’re not allowed to collectively bargain. That is difficult, so what I decided, basically looking through this, is that we could probably through home rule let them go with that. We could make our own ordinance saying that. When I talked to John Britton yesterday, he was unsure, however he did put me on speaker phone with someone else in his office. She said that most of the time what they do is they either Page 2 March 21, 2018 pass Civil Service rules and/or an ordinance that changes it because through home rule you can do that. I’m still looking to see if I can find something that are examples of that. When I asked them, I do not have one at the tip of their tongue. What I really wanted was, was for them to present us with a package or a roadmap of how we could get that. John Britton said that he’s willing to come and address what they want, and I would hope that if he did that, he’d be prepared to answer those questions. I don’t know if you’re interested in doing that, but he said he’d be willing to come in so that’s where we’re at right now. I really do think that it would require legislative action and/or the passing of Civil Service rules that would affirm this (?). That would have to be an affirmative action that we don’t want to take. Mr. Naso stated that he doesn’t have a problem with them doing what they want to do and that his concern is when someone is terminated, they now have to go to Common Pleas Court, which will cost them a ton of money; where prior, we’ve had that experience when they’ve come to us, doesn’t cost them anything, it can be appealed to the Court which happened and we won that. I’m not quite sure that union has idea about that. Commissioner Higham asked that if Mr. Britton were to come to our meeting and can’t answer our questions or your questions ahead of time, how’s he going to answer those questions at a meeting? If they can’t put it in writing and articulate what they’re really looking for and why they think it’s legit, I think it would be a waste of time for everybody to come sit in this meeting with us without putting it in an outline what they are looking for. I could see us asking for some clarification once he puts the full plan out in front of us. Mr. Scavelli stated that he would like to hear about a school system that has done it, or several and show us which ones and how they wrote their rules and how they structured it, which is all I’ve been asking for from the beginning of this. And so far, I haven’t got a name of a City that has done it. I want them to say, “here’s the steps of how we’re going to do this, this is how it works, this is how it has worked, and therefore it’s working. Mrs. Kilway said that it’s at their request, they’re asking us to take an affirmative action to exclude a group of people from Civil Service, to me there should be something compelling for us to take that action. That’s my personal opinion. Mr. Naso said that he doesn’t know if anyone has been hired since the contract was signed. It’s kind of a mess. The did say that they were still going to abide by Civil Service rules when it comes to lay-offs, so does that mean that an employee has an appeal process to us? Mr. Scavelli said that he thinks their intent was to write us out completely, but how effective that is, I don’t… Mrs. Higham asked if they would try to go to the State? Mr. Scavelli answered that it would be handled through the contract. Mrs. Higham asked how many non-bargaining employees they have. Nobody could answer that for sure. Mr. Scavelli stated that he will tell them we would like a presentation from you detailing and give us some examples. Give us five or six city examples and I think that would be a good presentation. The City still might decide they don’t want to handle it that way, but at least we would know that their proposal has merit and I think that’s not an unreasonable thing to ask to do. Mr. Naso asked Mr. Scavelli when he talks to them to ask them if they have hired anybody; he said that he would and that he isn’t sure Mr. Britton would know, but he will ask. Page 3 March 21, 2018 Mrs. Kilway asked if you want a presentation or do you just want him to provide that in writing, first step and if we have follow-up questions. Mr. Naso said in writing first. Mr. Kot asked permission to ask his niece, who represents schools in the Columbus area what they are doing? Mr. Cooper asked if the union has agreed to the new language. Mr. Naso answered yes, the new contract is in force. Mr. Kot suggested that if they expect us to write an ordinance writing them out of Civil Service, they should have a good explanation, not just the wishy-washy “the majority of public schools have decided to back off Civil Service”. This needs something more concrete than that. Mr. Scavelli stated that the reasons for this given to him were that feel they are able to pick their employees better than we are because they know them better and they feel that they have the ability to have their own human resources and that they are more able to handle things better than testing or anything like that. It’s very general, when I ask for specifics on legal reasons for any of this, it becomes, “well, everyone else does it” and no specific examples. Chairman Naso said that we have to remember why Civil Service was created in the first place. It was to protect and make sure that there was fairness and tax dollars are at play about who is eligible to be hired and that’s why they have a test. Sometimes the people they want don’t test as well and they can’t get to that person. I’m sure that has something to do with why they want to make these changes. It’s the reason Civil Service is here. Dr. Cooper said that we wanted to make sure that the Civil Service Commission was aware that we had added two unclassified positions. There’s a consensus of the Administration that they need to be unclassified according to O.R.C. 124.11 (A) 30. Mayor Kline said that there will be an amendment to this ordinance that will be a classified employee and it was budgeted for a non- exempt part-time, or full-time property room’s assistance. It will be tested. We are creating a position description, we do not have that yet. But it will be a tested position. Mr. Naso asked how it came about that all the part-time employees at the Rec Center are unclassified? Mrs. Raber answered that that pre-dates her and she is unable to answer that question. I was not part of that analysis, so I would have to research that. Mr. Naso said that at the last meeting, we approved the non-competitive exam requirements for hiring of the Water Superintendent. He asked Mr. Rorar to talk about the interview that took place. Mr. Rorar stated that the interview was done, Mr. Kot was there. Darrell Stineman accepted and has been here for about a month and has done a great job in the last 30 days. Mr. Kot said that the process went fine. He’s definitely qualified. I think he’s a good candidate. I think that Mike and the staff and Dave made the right decision. Mr. Naso said that it was good that we had that ability to do that and it worked out pretty well. Mr. Kot stated that he was impressed with our water system. I’ve never seen it before. Chairman Naso asked for any updates on the Part-Time Records Clerk? We agreed to reopen that list last meeting. Mayor Kline said that the Chief has had final interviews with two candidates and he is making a tentative offer to them. Chairman Naso recognized the State Report that was in each packet that is done each year. Mrs. Raber stated that there was a complaint filed about the hiring process for the lateral-hire police officer. It was dismissed by the EEOC. It claimed age discrimination and it was dismissed. Page 4 March 21, 2018 Mayor Kline made a request for a Part-Time/Full-Time General Laborer’s test and we also have a part-time/full-time person who took the test is now going to be promoted to full-time from part- time; he took the test for Part-Time/Full-Time General Laborer. Mr. Naso said that he wants to make sure that that’s appropriate. The Mayor said that nothing will be done until everything has been confirmed. Meeting adjourned at 8:24 a.m. An audio file of this meeting is available in the Civil Service office. Jan T Naso, Chairman Civil Service Commission TALLMADGE OHIO JTN:asi