Rent Leveling Board

1 1 CITY OF UNION CITY HUDSON COUNTY, NEW JERSEY 2 RENT STABILIZATION BOARD 3 : REGULAR MEETING : TRANSCRIPT OF 4 : --------------------: PROCEEDINGS 5 Union City City Hall 6 2nd Floor Courtroom 3715 Palisade Avenue 7 Union City, New Jersey 8 Monday, March 11, 2024 Commencing at 6:54 p.m. 9 10 M E M B E R S P R E S E N T: 11 JUAN MILAN, CHAIRMAN SANDRA VASQUEZ, VICE CHAIRPERSON 12 NORMA GUEVARA, COMMISSIONER ROSANA COLON, COMMISSIONER 13 YAMIRUS HOLGUIN, COMMISSIONER 14 M E M B E R S A B S E N T: 15 YDALY POZO, COMMISSIONER 16 ORQUIDIA SANCHEZ, COMMISSIONER 17 A L S O P R E S E N T: 18 NEIL D. MAROTTA, ESQ., Board Counsel 19 KENNEDY NG, Administrator 20 CHRISTINA M. RIVERA, ESQ., Tenant Advocate 21 FRANCOIS NUNEZ, Staff Member 22 CASMILA SOLIS, Staff Member 23 JOSE GONZALEZ, Interpreter 24 SUSAN BISCHOFF CCR CO. 25 449 Columbia Blvd., Wood-Ridge, NJ 07075 201-390-0583 SBischoffccr@yahoo.com  2 1 I N D E X 2 PAGE 3 CALL TO ORDER 5 SALUTE TO FLAG 5 4 ROLL CALL 5 5 HEARINGS 6 317 29th Street, Apt. #8, #11, #12 7 7 510 45th Street, Apt. #403 9 717 16th Street, Apt. #2 15 8 RESOLUTIONS n/a 9 OTHER BUSINESS 50 10 ADJOURNMENT 52 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  3 1 I N D E X 2 717 16TH STREET, APT #2 3 4 WITNESS PAGE 5 DIEGO VALERIO 11 6 7 8 E X H I B I T S 9 10 NO. DOCUMENT PAGE 11 NO EXHIBITS MARKED 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  4 1 I N D E X 2 510 45TH STREET, APT. #403 3 4 WITNESS PAGE 5 LESLIE DIAZ 18 6 KENNEDY NG 25 7 MIGUEL FERNANDEZ 28 8 E X H I B I T S 9 10 NO. DOCUMENT PAGE 11 B-1 letter dated 12/14/22 44 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  5 1 MR. NG: Good evening, everybody. This 2 is the meeting of the Rent Leveling Board. Today 3 is March 11, 2024, it is now -- the time is 6:54 4 and I really apologize because the court was 5 closed and it was miscommunication, but we solved 6 it. The important thing is that we are here. We 7 are in the municipal court chambers, 3715 Palisade 8 Avenue, Union City, New Jersey. 9 Pursuant to the Open Public Meetings 10 Act, adequate notice of this meeting was provided 11 to The Bergen Record, The Jersey Journal, North 12 Hudson Reporter more than 72 hours in advance of 13 the meeting and is posted at the municipal 14 offices. The notice include the date, time, 15 location, and to the extent known the agenda of 16 the meeting. Please rise for the flag salute. 17 18 (The Pledge of Allegiance was recited.) 19 20 ROLL CALL: 21 22 MR. NG: At this time, we're going to 23 have roll call. 24 Commissioner Norma Guevara. 25 COMMISSIONER GUEVARA: Yes.  6 1 MR. NG: Commissioner Ydaly Pozo, she 2 called, she has an emergency. 3 Commissioner Yamirus Holguin. 4 COMMISSIONER HOLGUIN: Here. 5 MR. NG: Commissioner Vice Chairman 6 Sandra Vasquez. 7 VICE CHAIRPERSON VASQUEZ: Yes. 8 MR. NG: Commissioner Rosana Colon. 9 COMMISSIONER COLON: Yes. 10 MR. NG: Chairman Juan Milan. 11 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Yes. 12 MR. NG: Interpreter, Jose Gonzales. 13 MR. GONZALEZ: Here. 14 MR. NG: So we have a quorum. Mr. 15 Marotta, we have a quorum, so we can follow up. 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  7 1 317 29th Street, Apt. 8, 11 & 12 - 2 Capital improvement: 3 4 MR. MAROTTA: We can proceed. We do 5 have three matters on tonight that are capital 6 improvement matters. The property owner needs to 7 postpone the matters as he's attending colleges 8 with his daughter out of state. Since this is a 9 matter that would result in an increase going 10 forward, I don't see an issue with that 11 postponement being granted. It is his application 12 on the document. And it will only affect the 13 tenant if the board permits an increase. 14 So I think that's also a good cause 15 anyway. 16 CHAIRMAN MILAN: It's the first time 17 that he's also asked for it or is this a couple? 18 MR. MAROTTA: I do not recall. 19 MR. NG: I believe it's the first time. 20 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Okay. Based on that, 21 I'll make a motion that we postpone 317 29th 22 Street, apartment 8, 11, and 12 until 23 administrator is able to easily slate those cases 24 back in the agenda. 25 MR. NG: Motion was made by our  8 1 chairman, Mr. Milan, and I will need a second. 2 COMMISSIONER COLON: I second it. 3 MR. NG: Commissioner Rosana Colon 4 seconded it. Roll call. 5 Commissioner Norma Guevara. 6 COMMISSIONER GUEVARA: Yes. 7 MR. NG: Commissioner Yamirus Holguin. 8 COMMISSIONER HOLGUIN: Yes. 9 MR. NG: Vice Chairwoman Sandra Vasquez. 10 VICE CHAIRPERSON VASQUEZ: Yes. 11 MR. NG: Commissioner Rosana Colon. 12 COMMISSIONER COLON: Yes. 13 MR. NG: Chairman Juan Milan. 14 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Yes. 15 MR. NG: Motion has passed. 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  9 1 717 16th Street, Apt. #2 - 2 Rent dispute: 3 4 MR. MAROTTA: Okay. And then we have 5 two other matters on this evening. I know that 6 the one is a continuation regarding a new 7 construction claim, 510 45th Street. And there's 8 also 717 16th Street, apartment 2, which is a rent 9 dispute. I believe that the tenant is here, but I 10 do not believe the property owner is present. So 11 in that regard, I would only request that we check 12 whether notice -- I did forget -- okay. 13 Mr. Gonzalez, we don't need an 14 interpreter this evening. 15 MR. GONZALEZ: Okay. 16 MR. NG: If you want to stay, you can 17 stay. 18 MR. GONZALEZ: Good bye. 19 MR. MAROTTA: I just want the record to 20 reflect you were here tonight. 21 So with regards to 717 16th Street, I'm 22 just going to ask can we confirm notice was sent 23 to the property owner at 717 16th Street? 24 MR. NUNEZ: Yes, I did. Casmila? 25 MS. SOLIS: Yes, I did.  10 1 MR. MAROTTA: By certified mail? 2 MS. SOLIS: Certified mail. 3 MR. MAROTTA: Did you speak to the 4 property owner at all? 5 MS. SOLIS: After I sent? 6 MR. MAROTTA: After you sent the notice? 7 MS. SOLIS: No, I have not. 8 MR. MAROTTA: Have you received any 9 request in person or by regular mail or email 10 requesting a postponement of this matter? 11 MS. SOLIS: No. 12 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Did we get the green 13 card back? 14 MS. SOLIS: I think we did. I could go 15 check. 16 MR. MAROTTA: We sent it regular and 17 certified? 18 MS. SOLIS: Yes. 19 MR. MAROTTA: Okay. I'm just going to 20 ask the tenant to step up for a moment. 21 Mr. Valerio, can you state your name for 22 the record? 23 MR. VALERIO: Diego Valerio. 24 MR. MAROTTA: And would you like it 25 spelled?  11 1 MR. VALERIO: D-I-E-G-O. Valerio, 2 V-A-L-E-R-I-O. 3 MR. MAROTTA: Do you mind raising your 4 right hand? 5 6 D I E G O V A L E R I O, after having been duly 7 sworn or affirmed, did testify as follows: 8 9 MR. MAROTTA: Just for the purposes of 10 notice, did you hear from the property owner at 11 all concerning this meeting? 12 MR. VALERIO: Not specifically this 13 meeting, but we spoke about it before. 14 MR. MAROTTA: Okay. 15 MR. VALERIO: About the procedures and 16 what was next and all that. Not specifically 17 about us meeting here today. 18 MR. MAROTTA: Okay. 19 MR. VALERIO: I just followed the notice 20 I got. 21 MR. MAROTTA: Of course, okay. So it's 22 the board's pleasure. There's -- 23 MR. NG: Can I ask Casmila? Casmila, 24 have you had any communication through the 25 computer at all with the owner?  12 1 MS. SOLIS: After I sent the letter? 2 MR. NG: In the past? 3 MS. SOLIS: Yes. 4 MR. NG: You haven't received an email 5 today? 6 MS. SOLIS: No. 7 MR. NG: I just want to know. 8 MS. RIVERA: At this time, I'd like to 9 make a motion to dismiss this appeal for lack of 10 prosecution because he was noticed and he failed 11 to appear. 12 MR. MAROTTA: Up to the board on its 13 preference regarding this matter. 14 MR. VALERIO: Just to add real quick, 15 with this, I think about specifically because, you 16 know, I think last month -- the rent for last 17 month was supposed to be whatever I was paying 18 before. And so I sent them the new amount, you 19 know, due to the calculation you guys did here in 20 the rent control. And he actually reached out to 21 me why -- you know, why I send that amount and 22 not -- and I explained to him that he should be 23 following -- I should be following at this point 24 whatever is in the rent calculation. And he said 25 okay, I appealed it. And we're going to go to  13 1 court. I said that's fine. So he should be aware 2 that he should have been here today. 3 MR. MAROTTA: Okay. 4 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Okay, fine. I'll make 5 a motion that we dismiss case due to lack of 6 prosecution based on the information we have 7 received from the administration office. However, 8 I'm going to say that for a period of -- what do 9 we normally give? 10 MR. MAROTTA: 30 days. 11 CHAIRMAN MILAN: For a period of 12 30 days, if landlord were to come back to 13 administrators and say, look, I've been in the 14 hospital or some other emergency -- 15 MR. NG: Exactly, with proof. 16 CHAIRMAN MILAN: -- I never received 17 this, you don't have the green back, whatever. 18 Then we may reopen the case. 19 MR. MAROTTA: Okay. 20 MR. NG: So -- 21 VICE CHAIRPERSON VASQUEZ: I'll second 22 that. 23 MR. NG: Motion was made by Mr. Milan, 24 our chairman. 25 VICE CHAIRPERSON VASQUEZ: I'll second  14 1 it. 2 MR. NG: Seconded by our Vice Chairman 3 Sandra Vasquez. Roll call. 4 Commissioner Norma Guevara. 5 COMMISSIONER GUEVARA: Yes. 6 MR. NG: Commissioner Yamirus Holguin. 7 COMMISSIONER HOLGUIN: Yes. 8 MR. NG: Commissioner Vice Chairwoman 9 Sandra Vasquez. 10 VICE CHAIRPERSON VASQUEZ: Yes. 11 MR. NG: Commissioner Rosana Colon. 12 COMMISSIONER COLON: Yes. 13 MR. NG: Chairman Juan Milan. 14 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Yes. 15 MR. NG: Motion has passed. 16 MR. MAROTTA: We have one more matter on 17 this evening -- 18 MR. VALERIO: I'm done? 19 MR. MAROTTA: If it does go back on, 20 we'll send you another notice. 21 MR. VALERIO: Thank you. 22 23 24 25  15 1 510 45th Street, Apt. #403 - 2 New construction: 3 4 MR. MAROTTA: Okay. We do have one more 5 matter, it's 510 45th Street. I believe the 6 property owner is here, Mr. Vaysman, if you'd like 7 to please approach. Okay. 8 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Are you representing 9 yourself? 10 MR. VAYSMAN: Yes. 11 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Fine. 12 MR. MAROTTA: Now, Mr. Vaysman was here 13 at the December meeting. And if you recall, at 14 that meeting, the tenant also testified. And the 15 tenant testified that she did not receive a notice 16 that there was -- that the property was exempt 17 from rent control, a pre-lease notice. She did 18 not have a lease with her, she did not have her 19 lease. And then the question was put if Mr. 20 Vaysman was able to obtain any additional 21 information from the prior property owner. And 22 also, Chairman Milan, you requested that the 23 building department bring a copy of the -- the 24 file to this meeting to review and see if there 25 was anything further.  16 1 We do have Leslie Diaz here tonight 2 ready to testify concerning her search of the 3 file. And anybody can take a look at the file 4 under our supervision. And at this point, I 5 believe I'll turn it over to counsel for -- well, 6 Mr. Vaysman and the tenant advocate for their 7 discussion. 8 MR. VAYSMAN: So the only thing I want 9 to add that I have a witness who brought that 10 paper in question in '16. But besides the point, 11 I don't know what your search found, no idea. But 12 the tenant who was complaining is no longer 13 interested in this case, I have a letter from her. 14 And she says basically kindly withdraw my 15 complaint against 510 Property Management, LLC. 16 MS. RIVERA: So Mr. Vaysman just showed 17 it to me and I have no way of knowing if that was 18 actually written by her. It's a computer 19 signed -- 20 MR. MAROTTA: So it's not acknowledged? 21 MS. RIVERA: It's not acknowledged, it's 22 like a font with a script font. 23 MR. MAROTTA: Just for the record, so 24 the board understands. The question here is 25 whether or not this building is exempt from rent  17 1 control, okay. So that is the primary focus. The 2 tenant is, in her instance, whether she has any 3 claim against the property owner or not, she can 4 pursue that separately. If the board makes a 5 determination either in her specific instance, 6 based upon the facts that had already been 7 presented, whether the property was exempt or not. 8 But also the primary issue is still relevant as to 9 whether or not the property is exempt from rent 10 control. 11 MR. VAYSMAN: So from my standpoint 12 every paperwork is there except one piece of paper 13 that's missing from 2016. And I have the paper 14 from the previous ownership, I have the person who 15 was building that building, involved in the 16 construction, bringing the paper to department of 17 building. Unfortunately, there's no trace of that 18 paper in the department of building. That's the 19 issue. 20 CHAIRMAN MILAN: We'll ask the 21 representative from the building department in a 22 few minutes and see what happens. 23 MR. VAYSMAN: So when we do our search 24 when we're buying a property, we do the due 25 diligence. All paperwork is submitted to us by  18 1 the previous ownership and that's how it works. 2 So we verified as much as we possibly could. 3 Unfortunately, the issue came up and that's the 4 result. 5 MR. MAROTTA: Okay. 6 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Okay. 7 MR. MAROTTA: So I'll call Ms. Diaz to 8 testify. 9 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Unless tenant advocate 10 has any other points before that? 11 MS. RIVERA: No, no. Because my client 12 testified last time -- or the tenant testified 13 last time and the record speaks for itself. 14 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Okay. Ms. Diaz, 15 please, if you could come up. 16 17 L E S L I E D I A Z, after having been duly 18 sworn or affirmed, did testify as follows: 19 20 MR. MAROTTA: Thank you for joining us 21 today. 22 MR. NG: Thank you for coming. 23 MS. DIAZ: You're very welcome. 24 MR. MAROTTA: So, Ms. Diaz, I'm going to 25 ask you some basic questions concerning this  19 1 matter and then both parties will have an 2 opportunity to ask you questions as well. 3 MS. DIAZ: Of course. 4 MR. MAROTTA: So can you state for the 5 record your position with the City of Union City? 6 MS. DIAZ: Yes. I'm a technical 7 assistant for the building department. I've been 8 there for about 15 years, and that's pretty much 9 what I do. I was the one assigned to this case. 10 MR. MAROTTA: Okay. And when you say 11 you were assigned to this case, you do realize 12 that the rent control office submitted an 13 interoffice memo to -- intra-office memo to you 14 requesting whether or not there was a claim of 15 exemption? 16 MS. DIAZ: That's correct, originally in 17 June of 2022 to be exact. 18 MR. MAROTTA: Okay. And did you find a 19 claim of exemption in the file? 20 MS. DIAZ: I found no such letter. 21 MR. MAROTTA: Okay. And you reviewed 22 the complete file? 23 MS. DIAZ: I did. 24 MR. MAROTTA: Okay. And in preparation 25 of tonight's meeting, did you have a chance to  20 1 look at the file again? 2 MS. DIAZ: I did, absolutely. I went 3 over it several times and unfortunately nothing 4 was found. 5 MR. MAROTTA: Okay. On that basis, I 6 have no further questions to establish the issue 7 of whether or not there was a claim of exemption 8 in the file -- other than one thing. 9 There was testimony at the prior meeting 10 that a Mr. Fernandez had submitted the file to the 11 construction code office. 12 MS. DIAZ: Okay. 13 MR. MAROTTA: The building department. 14 Do you know Mr. Fernandez? 15 MS. DIAZ: I do not, no. That name does 16 not ring a bell. 17 MR. MAROTTA: So as far as you know, Mr. 18 Fernandez did not work in your department? 19 MS. DIAZ: No. I've been there for 20 15 years and I've never heard of Mr. Fernandez in 21 that department. 22 MR. MAROTTA: Do you know if he works 23 with any other department? 24 MS. DIAZ: Could be another department, 25 but definitely not the building department.  21 1 MR. MAROTTA: Okay, thank you. Anybody 2 else, questions? 3 MS. RIVERA: This is the only file that 4 that exemption letter would be in? 5 MS. DIAZ: Yes. This is the original 6 file for the new construction and this is where we 7 would place it. 8 MS. RIVERA: You looked cover to cover? 9 MS. DIAZ: Cover to cover, several 10 times. 11 MS. RIVERA: And there's nothing in 12 there? 13 MS. DIAZ: Yes. 14 MR. VAYSMAN: So in February 2016, if 15 the person brings the paperwork regarding the new 16 construction, what's the process? 17 MS. DIAZ: Well, the process is new 18 owners of new construction residential, if they're 19 interested in actually being exempt from rent 20 control, they have to submit notice 30 days prior 21 to the sale being issued. And that's pretty much 22 it. 23 MR. VAYSMAN: How do they submit -- I'm 24 interested in the physical interaction. They come 25 to the office, they give it to someone?  22 1 MS. DIAZ: Yeah, anyone would come to 2 the office. They would give the letter to the 3 lady, we usually stamp the letter. If they 4 request a copy, we give a stamped copy as a 5 receipt. 6 MR. VAYSMAN: So 2016, do you know who 7 was that lady that would take the paper? 8 MS. DIAZ: We have several interns at 9 the window. There's a lot of girls. 10 MR. VAYSMAN: What do you mean several 11 interns? 12 MS. DIAZ: We have interns at the 13 window. 14 MR. VAYSMAN: Who's an intern, that's a 15 person that comes and works for a few days -- 16 MS. DIAZ: They work at the building 17 department. 18 MR. NG: Not a few days, months. 19 MR. VAYSMAN: Few months, few weeks. So 20 simple question, let's say -- I'm not saying 21 anything -- maybe responsible, maybe not very 22 responsible. Is there a chance that intern takes 23 the paper and doesn't deliver it to the correct 24 file? 25 MS. DIAZ: Anything is possible, but we  23 1 all are there to supervisor. 2 MR. VAYSMAN: You just said anything is 3 possible? 4 MS. DIAZ: Anything is possible, we do 5 supervise. 6 MR. VAYSMAN: I have no further 7 questions. 8 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Anybody on the board 9 have any questions for Ms. Diaz? 10 Could you just, as a refresher to all of 11 us, because obviously we don't deal day to day 12 with the building department. Could you -- the 13 gentlemen already asked the first part, you give a 14 form in. Can you follow the process -- 15 MS. DIAZ: Right. 16 CHAIRMAN MILAN: -- the wide angle? 17 MS. DIAZ: The entire process, I don't 18 know it exactly because I'm not the one assigned 19 to actually the process. I can tell you pretty 20 much something comes in, what we do. If that 21 letter would have come in, we would have taken the 22 letter. The file would have been pulled and it 23 would have been put right in the file, stapled in. 24 It would have been stamped with a date stamp. 25 MR. VAYSMAN: No computer, scanning,  24 1 anything like that? 2 MS. DIAZ: No, it would be placed in the 3 file along with a stamp and the individual who 4 turned it in would have been given a copy. 5 CHAIRMAN MILAN: You don't have a copy 6 of -- 7 MR. VAYSMAN: I have a copy, of course. 8 I don't have it on me. 9 MS. DIAZ: Do you have it stamped? 10 CHAIRMAN MILAN: A stamped copy? 11 MR. VAYSMAN: It's not a stamped copy, 12 that is the problem. If it was a stamped copy, 13 there would be no problem. Unfortunately, I just 14 have a person who said they brought that piece of 15 paper into the office. Because the previous 16 owners lived in Miami and there was a builder 17 here, I don't know who the builder was. But this 18 person was the liaison in front of -- between the 19 owners and the building. So he was bringing all 20 the paperwork, supervising everything is no 21 problem. And the witness is saying he did bring 22 that paper. Now, I just heard that it's possible 23 it could have been lost. That's what I'm saying. 24 CHAIRMAN MILAN: So basically we have 25 that the paper that's missing normally gets to the  25 1 office of the building department, they stamp it 2 and they immediately give a copy to the person. 3 So that copy that you had should have had the 4 certificate -- 5 MR. VAYSMAN: I only have a copy that 6 the owner gave to me. 7 CHAIRMAN MILAN: I get it. 8 MR. VAYSMAN: Owner didn't have the 9 stamp copy. The owner gave it to Mr. Fernandez to 10 bring to the building department. 11 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Mr. Fernandez is not a 12 City of Union City person, it's more the -- 13 MR. VAYSMAN: I worked for the owner at 14 the time. 15 CHAIRMAN MILAN: He worked for the 16 liaison group that the owner was using here 17 because he was in Florida. Okay, just trying to 18 get everyone's -- 19 MR. NG: In my experience, from that 20 letter -- 21 MR. MAROTTA: If you're going to -- 22 CHAIRMAN MILAN: You have to get sworn. 23 24 K E N N E D Y N G, after having been duly sworn 25 or affirmed, did testify as follows:  26 1 MR. NG: My experience, I was rent 2 control in 2016, when the building department 3 received that application with that letter, 4 immediately they send a copy to rent control 5 because this is the letter that the building will 6 be exempt. 7 MR. VAYSMAN: Unless it's lost. 8 MR. NG: I searched also all the files 9 for the building. I search upstairs, the tax 10 assessor, just in case other building department 11 when I applied because I'm the one who signed the 12 paper to rent control to give to Leslie and 13 nothing. 14 MR. VAYSMAN: Okay. 15 MR. MAROTTA: Okay. 16 MR. VAYSMAN: Unless intern who worked 17 at the window didn't deliver it to the right 18 place. You just heard it was possible, it can 19 happen. 20 MR. MAROTTA: Ms. Rivera, anything? 21 MS. RIVERA: I have nothing to add, no. 22 MR. MAROTTA: Any closing arguments -- 23 anything further -- I'm sorry, anything further 24 for Ms. Diaz. 25 CHAIRMAN MILAN: I believe that we have  27 1 all the information we need from Ms. Diaz as far 2 as the fact that the letter is missing from the 3 file and as to the process that normally is 4 followed. I thank you very much. 5 MS. DIAZ: Of course. 6 MR. MAROTTA: I'm going to ask that you 7 wait a moment because I know that the person who 8 testified last time is here, and I don't know if 9 Mr. Vaysman intends to call him again. 10 MR. VAYSMAN: I just -- we have his 11 testimony. 12 MR. MAROTTA: We're good? Okay. 13 MR. VAYSMAN: I just -- I mean -- 14 MR. MAROTTA: If there's anything else 15 you want to say, please? 16 MR. VAYSMAN: No. 17 CHAIRMAN MILAN: I mean by all means, if 18 you -- 19 MR. VAYSMAN: The only thing I can say 20 that from my point of view, there's a person 21 who -- 22 CHAIRMAN MILAN: I think your witness 23 is -- he was sworn last time. 24 MR. MAROTTA: But you can't sit there 25 because she might not be able to hear you.  28 1 2 M I G U E L F E R N A N D E Z, previously 3 sworn: 4 5 MR. VAYSMAN: Can you tell us what 6 happened on February -- 7 MR. FERNANDEZ: We don't know each 8 other, but we know each other. We know each other 9 for a long time, since I used to work for the 10 City. I know Kennedy, I know everybody here. I 11 know I brought the paper over. Like she said, 12 that possibly an intern -- she also said that if 13 somebody requests a copy, they'll give you a copy, 14 but normally, that's not the process. I've been 15 to the building department many times, I've gone 16 in. I've done a lot of work for other people and 17 brought it in. It could have gotten lost. 18 There's no reason -- like I said, 19 there's no reason for me not to -- 20 MR. MAROTTA: Mr. Fernandez, just to 21 remind you you're still under oath. Just have a 22 question for you then. You never request a stamp 23 on a copy? 24 MR. FERNANDEZ: There's so many things I 25 brought over.  29 1 MR. MAROTTA: And you never -- 2 MR. FERNANDEZ: I drop it off. 3 MR. MAROTTA: -- request that they stamp 4 a document? 5 MR. FERNANDEZ: No. 6 MR. MAROTTA: Okay. 7 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Okay. 8 MR. VAYSMAN: So I want to add, if I 9 may? That basically I don't know, for the 10 property ownership, from my standpoint, I 11 represent a group of people who are partners. So 12 it's a big deal in terms of having the building 13 new construction being in rent control or out of 14 rent control, it's a market value. So meaning, 15 your decision right now will influence the market 16 value of this property, which is very significant 17 difference between rent control and non-rent 18 control. I'm saying because of this piece of 19 paper -- every other document is there. This 20 piece of paper being missing from building 21 department, that's a huge, huge decision. 22 MR. MAROTTA: Mr. Vaysman, I just have a 23 couple questions for you. So you state that every 24 other document is there. You have presented 25 documents. The claim for exemption, original  30 1 document, you claim which is the necessary 2 document, you also presented as L-2, which is a 3 sample given to tenants that lets them know that 4 the property is exempt, correct? 5 MR. VAYSMAN: Right. 6 MR. MAROTTA: When we had adjourned this 7 matter, it was also for you to have the 8 opportunity to speak to the seller to you and find 9 out if they had any other documents. 10 MR. VAYSMAN: They didn't find -- I was 11 talking about that lease. So every other lease 12 that I received from them, except that one was 13 missing. And that one, she said, was delivered 14 manually to that tenant. And the hard copy was 15 lost. 16 MR. MAROTTA: Did you have other leases 17 for -- 18 MR. VAYSMAN: I have other leases. 19 MR. MAROTTA: -- the original tenants? 20 MR. VAYSMAN: I can't say who was 21 original, who's not. I have a tenant who lived 22 there prior to us acquiring the building, I have 23 that lease. 24 MR. MAROTTA: You have their leases? 25 MR. VAYSMAN: Not on me.  31 1 MR. MAROTTA: Okay. 2 MR. VAYSMAN: So I have a sample that 3 we -- I don't know -- 4 MR. MAROTTA: We have the sample notice. 5 MR. VAYSMAN: Notice that I present to 6 them and they sign, that's an example. 7 MR. MAROTTA: We have that. 8 MR. VAYSMAN: That the building -- 9 MR. MAROTTA: We have that. So no 10 notice from the prior owner stating that, to any 11 of the tenants? 12 MR. VAYSMAN: I didn't obtain that. I 13 didn't ask for that, no. 14 MR. MAROTTA: Okay. Okay. No further 15 questions. 16 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Thank you to Ms. Diaz, 17 Mr. Fernandez. 18 MR. FERNANDEZ: One last thing, just so 19 you know, if you go look at the building, the 20 building is beautiful, because I maintain it. 21 It's very clean, the whole area. 22 MR. MAROTTA: Thank you. Just for 23 clarification, Ms. Diaz, do you know Mr. 24 Fernandez? 25 MS. DIAZ: He's never worked in our  32 1 department, but his face is familiar. 2 MR. MAROTTA: Okay, fine. I just wanted 3 to make sure we're not saying one thing, thank 4 you. 5 MS. DIAZ: You're very welcome. 6 CHAIRMAN MILAN: I make a motion -- 7 MS. RIVERA: Well, I was just going to 8 say, just an argument, that the ordinance is very 9 clear on what needs to be presented in order for 10 the exemption. And it mirrors the statute that, 11 you know, in addition to the claim for exemption, 12 you also have to -- it has to be filed with the 13 municipality with the building department. There 14 has to be -- not just a sample, but there should 15 be the tenant lease that conspicuously says that 16 it's exempt from rent control. And, you know, we 17 just have samples, we don't actually have anything 18 signed by my client, right? 19 MR. VAYSMAN: Your client refused to 20 give me that lease. 21 MS. RIVERA: Well, my client says that 22 she doesn't have -- she testified that she didn't 23 have anything, that she was never presented with 24 the exemption notice. She didn't have that in any 25 lease. And so I think that the application fails  33 1 on those two components, you know, he can't 2 present what is mandated by ordinance and state 3 statute. 4 MR. VAYSMAN: Which two components? 5 MR. MAROTTA: This is actually her 6 closing argument, she's not testifying. 7 CHAIRMAN MILAN: You could rebut. 8 MS. RIVERA: So I would submit that they 9 haven't shown enough to be exempt from rent 10 control. 11 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Sir? 12 MR. VAYSMAN: But I think I did show 13 enough. I showed that exemption note that we're 14 trying to locate. And I have a sample of lease 15 exemption note to the tenants. I don't have 16 actual lease, I don't -- I'm not a lawyer, I 17 didn't know it was required to bring an actual 18 lease of -- that particular tenant doesn't have a 19 lease because I'm -- we were not the one who wrote 20 the lease. And the previous ownership could not 21 locate that lease. 22 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Okay. 23 MR. VAYSMAN: Any other tenant, I 24 probably do have it, I just don't have it on me. 25 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Okay. I make a motion  34 1 that we close testimony and go into deliberations. 2 MR. NG: Motion was made by Mr. Milan, 3 our chairman. Second? 4 COMMISSIONER HOLGUIN: Second. 5 MR. NG: Commissioner Holguin seconded. 6 Roll call. 7 Commissioner Norma Guevara. 8 COMMISSIONER GUEVARA: Yes. 9 MR. NG: Commissioner Yamirus Holguin. 10 COMMISSIONER HOLGUIN: Yes. 11 MR. NG: Commissioner Vice Chairwoman 12 Sandra Vasquez. 13 VICE CHAIRPERSON VASQUEZ: Yes. 14 MR. NG: Commissioner Rosana Colon. 15 COMMISSIONER COLON: Yes. 16 MR. NG: Chairman Juan Milan. 17 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Yes. 18 MR. NG: Motion has passed. 19 MR. MAROTTA: Okay. 20 CHAIRMAN MILAN: I sympathize with the 21 gentleman -- 22 MR. MAROTTA: I'm sorry to interject 23 real quick, Commissioner Colon was not at the last 24 meeting when this was discussed. So she would not 25 be able to partake in the deliberation.  35 1 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Unless she read -- 2 MR. MAROTTA: The transcript. 3 MR. NG: So she has to abstain. 4 CHAIRMAN MILAN: So she has to abstain 5 in this matter, okay. 6 As I was saying, I sympathize pretty 7 much with the gentleman. I understand sometimes 8 we don't get from a previous owner all that's 9 needed. But, unfortunately, there is a principle 10 called caveat emptor, let the buyer be ware. If 11 we don't get all the documents that are needed for 12 something, it can be an issue. That's why, 13 normally, you have legal representation or 14 something like that or some other expert that 15 helps through that process. Because otherwise, 16 it's easy to not understand something that we 17 might think it's not that important is actually 18 very much needed. 19 There's not just one document that we're 20 missing here, it's really two. And they're the 21 two that are brought out the most in the clauses 22 that have to do with this, which is the lease is 23 not signed by the proper person. The fact that 24 the prior owner could give you a lot of leases, 25 but not this one makes it sound like you probably  36 1 didn't do a lease for this person. Especially 2 since she's saying I don't have a lease, I never 3 got it. And based on the letter that you even 4 presented yourself, it sounds like she doesn't 5 have much of a bone in this fight. So she's kind 6 of letting it go, but she's not saying oh, by the 7 way, here's my lease. Which if you're no longer 8 fighting something, you might be very, you know, 9 very much in the mood of saying, listen, since I 10 don't care anymore, here, have the lease, show 11 that that was correct. She didn't do it. She's 12 saying she didn't find it. And based on that 13 letter, I'd say she's probably correct, she can't 14 find it. It's kind of suspicious that the owner 15 didn't send you that one, but send you others. It 16 makes it sound very much like just for that one, 17 they didn't have it. 18 MR. MAROTTA: I just want a 19 clarification. I don't think Mr. Vaysman 20 testified that they sent him other leases. 21 MR. VAYSMAN: I have other leases. 22 MR. MAROTTA: From the prior tenants 23 from the prior -- 24 MR. VAYSMAN: Yes, I have other leases. 25 This one is very, very funny, but this one is  37 1 missing. 2 MR. MAROTTA: Okay. 3 MR. VAYSMAN: She says she gave a hard 4 copy because she had a Realtor working for her at 5 that time and the Realtor had a hard copy and the 6 hard copy is missing. 7 CHAIRMAN MILAN: The problem with this 8 case is a lot of -- we have to -- between that and 9 the fact that obviously the file for the building 10 department doesn't have it, they don't have 11 anything stamped either saying here, you gave it 12 to us. So there's a lot of -- we have to either 13 trust there was a lot of incompetency in this 14 particular apartment -- 15 MR. VAYSMAN: She said it's possible. 16 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Anything is possible, 17 but you know there's got to be a point at which 18 you say fine, this is possible. But you are 19 really having to suspend disbelief by saying, 20 okay, they did a lease, but somehow that's the one 21 I lost and you lost it, too. And I put in a 22 notice in the building department, but for that 23 one, I don't have anything with a stamp and 24 neither do they, and neither does the 25 administration. You see, it's a lot of steps that  38 1 were missed and at least the two major documents 2 of the thing. 3 So, yeah, I understand. And I 4 understand it has nothing to do with your own 5 competency because you weren't the owner, but 6 unfortunately, those were the kind of issues that 7 you would have had to settle when you bought, say, 8 hey, for this apartment, I need something more, 9 what do you have. Otherwise, yeah, you're open to 10 this kind of case. 11 And the fact that since you don't have 12 the documents in the proper order and it's more 13 than one, then I have -- if I'm making a motion, 14 I'm making a motion that we have to uphold the 15 decision of the administration. But obviously I'm 16 letting my peers speak. And you can obviously go 17 against me and discuss. Please, anyone that has 18 any opinions, put them out there. 19 VICE CHAIRPERSON VASQUEZ: I don't have 20 a different opinion than yours, I agree. 21 COMMISSIONER GUEVARA: Yeah. 22 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Anybody else, pro or 23 con? If we're all in agreement, I'll put the 24 motion through. If we're not all in agreement, 25 let's discuss it a little more. Ms. Holguin?  39 1 COMMISSIONER HOLGUIN: Yes. 2 CHAIRMAN MILAN: You're agreeing. Ms. 3 Guevara? 4 COMMISSIONER GUEVARA: Yes. 5 MR. MAROTTA: I would just request that 6 in follow-up to the motion, the determination of 7 the rent board office was based upon a letter 8 dated December 14, 2022, stating you have not 9 filed a rent registration statement. And it then 10 goes onto state that in the event you claim that 11 the above property is exempt from rent control -- 12 it's the second document in the packet that we 13 received, I believe. 14 CHAIRMAN MILAN: The letter for 15 October 3, 2023. 16 MR. MAROTTA: So it says if you claim 17 the property is exempt, please provide proofs to 18 that extent, and enclosing the rent control 19 ordinance addressing new construction. So I 20 believe that the determination would be either the 21 property is exempt from rent control or it's 22 subject to the rent control. 23 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Because the letter 24 itself left it a question mark for us. 25 I would say for this apartment, based on  40 1 what I see, I would have to say it is not exempt 2 from rent control. 3 MR. MAROTTA: Okay. 4 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Only for this apartment 5 because that's the only one that we're dealing 6 with at the moment. 7 MR. MAROTTA: Actually the question is 8 as to the property. It can't be as to the 9 apartment because the question is as to the 10 whether the -- they're claiming the property is 11 exempt from rent control. 12 CHAIRMAN MILAN: So just a technical 13 question for you. If we're saying it's only for 14 that apartment, 403, and he does have leases for 15 other apartments, where -- and they might have in 16 the building department something for those -- how 17 do we make a decision? 18 MR. MAROTTA: The fundamental question 19 is as to rent control for the building, whether or 20 not the building is subject to rent control or if 21 it's exempt. 22 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Right. 23 MR. MAROTTA: The only way the property 24 can be exempt is if the statutory requirements are 25 met, which is basically the filing of the claim  41 1 for exemption. As to the individual tenants, that 2 is relevant if the claim of exemption -- if the 3 board determines that there was a claim of 4 exemption. So if the board determines that the 5 property is exempt, then other tenants could say, 6 well, I never got the pre-lease notice which Mr. 7 Vaysman has presented as his sample. Or it's not 8 in the lease, then it would be the tenant's 9 obligation to come forward. But the primary -- 10 MR. VAYSMAN: There are two issues. 11 MR. MAROTTA: Just let me finish, sir. 12 The primary question is whether or not the 13 building is -- 14 CHAIRMAN MILAN: And in that, we have by 15 Ms. Diaz saying that it's not there, it's not 16 there for any of the tenants. 17 MR. MAROTTA: It would be -- it's to the 18 building. 19 CHAIRMAN MILAN: It's for the building, 20 not the tenant. 21 MR. MAROTTA: Mr. Vaysman did have a 22 comment. 23 MR. VAYSMAN: The comment was that again 24 there are two issues. First, the building, that 25 means that paper that I say I have and the  42 1 building department can't find and there's a 2 possibility it was lost, we have that issue. And 3 then there's apartment 403, because there's no 4 lease, that's a second issue, if you determine 5 that I have a case in terms of the paper could be 6 lost. 7 MS. RIVERA: I think you can't get to 8 the second part without getting -- 9 CHAIRMAN MILAN: The first part is 10 obviously -- that's what I was trying to get an 11 understanding because we're saying here in the 12 agenda it's just for that apartment that we're 13 ruling, but in reality, it's for the building. 14 MR. VAYSMAN: You're ruling for 15 15 people. 16 MR. MAROTTA: That's what the letter -- 17 CHAIRMAN MILAN: That's what the letter 18 that Ms. Diaz looked at or tried to -- 19 MR. MAROTTA: The letter that was sent 20 to the property owner goes to not just the 21 individual, but the actual building. 22 CHAIRMAN MILAN: The whole building. 23 MR. MAROTTA: I'm going to -- I'm 24 looking -- that letter. That letter is not in 25 evidence. I'm going to request that for clarity  43 1 of the record, that we reopen testimony to have 2 that letter presented. 3 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Okay. 4 MR. VAYSMAN: This says apartment 403, 5 right. 6 MR. MAROTTA: I'm talking about a letter 7 dated December 14, 2022, okay. 8 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Okay, yeah. Do I have 9 to make a motion again? 10 MR. MAROTTA: Yeah. 11 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Motion to reopen 12 testimony in order to put the letter from the City 13 of Union City rent leveling board of December 14, 14 2022, on the record. 15 MR. MAROTTA: Okay. I'd like to have a 16 letter marked as B-1. 17 VICE CHAIRPERSON VASQUEZ: I'll second. 18 MR. NG: Motion by Chairman Milan and 19 second by Commissioner Vasquez. Roll call. 20 Commissioner Norma Guevara. 21 COMMISSIONER GUEVARA: Yes. 22 MR. NG: Commissioner Yamirus Holguin. 23 COMMISSIONER HOLGUIN: Yes. 24 MR. NG: Commissioner Vice Chairwoman 25 Sandra Vasquez.  44 1 VICE CHAIRPERSON VASQUEZ: Yes. 2 MR. NG: Commissioner Rosana Colon. 3 COMMISSIONER COLON: Yes. 4 MR. NG: Chairman Juan Milan. 5 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Yes. 6 MR. NG: Motion has passed. 7 MR. MAROTTA: I'm just going to show it 8 to the parties. 9 10 (Letter dated December 14, 2022 11 received and marked B-1.) 12 13 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Any comments before I 14 close testimony again? Any comments that looking 15 at that letter bring out that you would like to 16 put on the record? 17 MR. MAROTTA: Is that your address? Is 18 that the name of your company, Mr. Vaysman? 19 MR. VAYSMAN: Yes. 20 MR. MAROTTA: Is that the proper 21 address? 22 MR. VAYSMAN: Yes. 23 MR. MAROTTA: Okay. 24 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Okay. 25 MR. MAROTTA: Thank you.  45 1 CHAIRMAN MILAN: So I make another 2 motion to reclose testimony and reopen 3 deliberations. 4 MR. NG: Motion was made by Mr. Milan, 5 our chairman. Second? 6 COMMISSIONER GUEVARA: Second. 7 MR. NG: Commissioner Guevara. Roll 8 call. 9 Commissioner Norma Guevara. 10 COMMISSIONER GUEVARA: Yes. 11 MR. NG: Commissioner Yamirus Holguin. 12 COMMISSIONER HOLGUIN: Yes. 13 MR. NG: Commissioner Vice Chairwoman 14 Sandra Vasquez. 15 VICE CHAIRPERSON VASQUEZ: Yes. 16 MR. NG: Commissioner Rosana Colon. 17 COMMISSIONER COLON: Yes. 18 MR. NG: Chairman Juan Milan. 19 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Yes. 20 MR. NG: Motion has passed. 21 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Okay. We still have 22 the issue. We still have the fact that this is 23 not in the record of the building department, this 24 is not in our sight. And at least for one 25 tenant --  46 1 MR. VAYSMAN: So there's only one thing 2 missing for this particular question that we're 3 discussing? 4 CHAIRMAN MILAN: No, you're still 5 missing some of the leases -- 6 MR. VAYSMAN: So 403, it's a different 7 issue for? 8 CHAIRMAN MILAN: But which is the main 9 case we're dealing with, so for that -- 10 MR. VAYSMAN: For that one. 11 CHAIRMAN MILAN: There's no longer 12 testimony, but I will let you speak in a second 13 and also tenant advocate if she so chooses to 14 respond. Basically, you have an issue which is 15 the prevalent document that's missing and it's not 16 in the building department and it's not in the 17 owner with the seal. 18 MR. VAYSMAN: Because Mr. Fernandez 19 testified he dropped it off, he didn't have to 20 wait for the seal, he just dropped it off at the 21 building department. And I have the testimony -- 22 MR. MAROTTA: I guess that's further 23 argument. 24 CHAIRMAN MILAN: It's the same argument 25 we've been hearing, so I'm going to say we heard  47 1 it and we understand it and we're taking it into 2 consideration. 3 MR. VAYSMAN: Okay. 4 CHAIRMAN MILAN: But still, I mean when 5 you bought it -- or when he was trying to sell, it 6 would behoove him to say, okay, let's see what -- 7 MR. VAYSMAN: They gave me a document, 8 but I didn't know it needs to be stamped. I saw 9 other documents, by the way, for Union City. I 10 was looking at more properties, none of them was 11 stamped. That's why I never paid attention 12 because I saw -- I can show these documents. 13 CHAIRMAN MILAN: You look at the 14 ordinance, sir? 15 MR. MAROTTA: I have no problem with -- 16 MR. VAYSMAN: Nobody said it needs to be 17 stamped. 18 MR. MAROTTA: -- Mr. Vaysman continuing 19 to testify -- 20 CHAIRMAN MILAN: We are closed. 21 MR. MAROTTA: Unless you reopen -- 22 CHAIRMAN MILAN: I don't want to reopen 23 it again. 24 MR. VAYSMAN: Nowhere in the ordinance 25 it says the document needs to be stamped. I just  48 1 heard from the building department there's a 2 possibility it could be lost transitioning from 3 the receptionist into our file. So I have a 4 document that's not stamped and it could be lost, 5 so that's the issue at hand right how. 6 CHAIRMAN MILAN: I got it. But at the 7 same time, the owner could have said at that 8 point, let me have all my documents in a row and 9 have gotten them. And if he has others and he 10 doesn't have this, that tells me that somewhere 11 along the line, either it didn't happen or it 12 wasn't carried to conclusion. And even with the 13 leases, we see there's no lease there with the 14 proper notice. I mean we have a sample, but the 15 sample is not signed by any tenant. 16 MR. VAYSMAN: Okay. I hear you. 17 CHAIRMAN MILAN: So my motion is still I 18 say that this is not an exempted building from 19 rent control. 20 MR. NG: Okay. Motion was made by our 21 chairman, Mr. Milan. Second? 22 VICE CHAIRPERSON VASQUEZ: I'll second 23 it. 24 MR. NG: Vice Chairman Commissioner 25 Sandra Vasquez. Roll call.  49 1 Commissioner Norma Guevara. 2 COMMISSIONER GUEVARA: Yes. 3 MR. NG: Commissioner Yamirus Holguin. 4 COMMISSIONER HOLGUIN: Yes. 5 MR. NG: Commissioner Vice Chairwoman 6 Sandra Vasquez. 7 VICE CHAIRPERSON VASQUEZ: Yes. 8 MR. NG: Commissioner Rosana Colon. 9 COMMISSIONER COLON: Abstain. 10 MR. NG: Chairman Juan Milan. 11 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Yes. 12 MR. NG: Motion has passed. 13 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Thank you. 14 MR. VAYSMAN: Will I be able to get the 15 transcript? 16 MR. MAROTTA: You can request a 17 transcript. 18 MR. VAYSMAN: How? 19 MR. MAROTTA: Do an OPRA request? 20 MR. NG: OPRA request. 21 MR. MAROTTA: I'll prepare a resolution. 22 And you would have 45 days from that date to 23 appeal that determination? 24 MR. VAYSMAN: Appeal how and where? 25 MR. MAROTTA: You go to court.  50 1 OTHER BUSINESS: 2 3 MR. NG: Public session. 4 CHAIRMAN MILAN: I make a motion that we 5 open the public session of this meeting. 6 MR. NG: Motion was made by chairman 7 Juan Milan. 8 COMMISSIONER COLON: I second it. 9 MR. NG: Second by Commissioner Rosana 10 Colon. All in favor to open the public meeting? 11 (All Board Members indicate in the 12 affirmative.) 13 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Is there anyone in the 14 public that wants to make any statement? No one. 15 Seeing no one, I make a motion that we close. 16 COMMISSIONER HOLGUIN: Second. 17 MR. NG: Motion made by our Chairman, 18 Mr. Milan, second by Commissioner Holguin. Roll 19 call. 20 Commissioner Norma Guevara. 21 COMMISSIONER GUEVARA: Yes. 22 MR. NG: Commissioner Yamirus Holguin. 23 COMMISSIONER HOLGUIN: Yes. 24 MR. NG: Commissioner Vice Chairwoman 25 Sandra Vasquez.  51 1 VICE CHAIRPERSON VASQUEZ: Yes. 2 MR. NG: Commissioner Rosana Colon. 3 COMMISSIONER COLON: Yes. 4 MR. NG: Chairman Juan Milan. 5 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Yes. 6 MR. NG: Motion has passed. 7 CHAIRMAN MILAN: Do we have any 8 administrative or other things that you want to 9 deal with? 10 MR. NG: Not really. When is our next 11 meeting? Anyway, I will reach out to everybody 12 and just reenforce from the dates we did at the 13 beginning of the year. But Casmila is going to 14 send an email. 15 MR. NUNEZ: April 8th. 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  52 1 ADJOURNMENT: 2 3 MR. NG: So a motion to adjourn. 4 CHAIRMAN MILAN: I make a motion to 5 adjourn. 6 COMMISSIONER COLON: I second it. 7 MR. NG: All in favor? 8 (All Board Members indicate in the 9 affirmative.) 10 11 (Whereupon the meeting was adjourned at 12 7:44 p.m.) 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  53 1 C E R T I F I C A T E 2 3 4 5 6 I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing is a 7 true and accurate transcript of the testimony and 8 proceedings as taken stenographically by me at the 9 time, place, and on the date hereinbefore set 10 forth. 11 12 13 ____________________________ 14 SUSAN BISCHOFF, CCR, RPR LICENSE NO. 30XI00233700 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25