Board of Zoning Appeals (BZA)

BZA MEETING NOTICE AND RESULTS ZIONSVILLE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS Tuesday, April 11, 2023 6:30 PM (Local Time) THIS PUBLIC MEETING WAS CONDUCTED ONSITE AT ZIONSVILLE TOWN HALL IN ROOM 105 (COUNCIL CHAMBERS), LOCATED AT 1100 WEST OAK STREET: The following items were scheduled for consideration: I. Pledge of Allegiance II. Attendance 5 of 5 members attended. IN-PERSON: C. Lake, L. Jones, S. Mundy, A. Pickell, K. Postlethwait III. Approval of the March 1, 2023, Minutes Approved 5 in Favor, 0 Opposed IV. Continuance or Withdrawal Requests Docket Name Address of Project Item to be considered Number Petitioner requested a continuance to the May 3, 2023, BZA Meeting. 10663 Barrington Way 5 in Favor, 0 Opposed 2023-05-DSV D. Fleenor Zionsville, IN 46077 Petition for a Development Standards Variance to decrease the rear setback to provide for a swimming pool in the Holliday Farms Planned Unit Development. V. Continued Business Docket Name Address of Project Item to be considered Number Approved as presented & filed w/ exhibits & per staff report. 5 in Favor, 0 Opposed Petition for a Development Standards Variance to provide 880 Starkey Road 2022-71-DSV M. Lohmeyer for a detached garage in which: Zionsville, IN 46077 1) Deviates from the side yard setbacks 2) Deviates from the rear yard setback 3) Deviates from the residential accessory building height in the Urban Open Land Zoning District (O-1). April 12, 2023 VI. New Business Docket Name Address of Project Item to be considered Number Approved as presented & filed w/ exhibits & per staff report. 5 in Favor, 0 Opposed Devonshire 8666 E. 400 South (est.) 2023-06-DSV Petition for a Development Standards Variance to provide (Pulte Homes) Zionsville, IN 46077 for an increase of sign square footage for monument signs at two subdivision entryways in the Rural Single and Two- Family Residential Zoning District (R-2). Approved as presented & filed w/ exhibits & per staff report. 5 in Favor, 0 Opposed Groover’s 8280 E. 250 South 2023-07-DSV Petition for Development Standards Variance to provide Legacy LLC Zionsville, IN 46077 for accessory structures which exceeds the permitted accessory square footage in the Rural Single-Family Residential Zoning District (R-1). VII. Other Matters to be considered: Docket Name Address of Project Item to be considered Number 2023 Contractual BZA Legal Services Please note that a quorum of the Zionsville Town Council may be in attendance at the meeting. Respectfully Submitted: Mike Dale, AICP Director - Community and Economic Development Department Town of Zionsville April 12, 2023 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals April 11, 2023 In Attendance: Steve Mundy, Chris Lake, Andy Pickell, Kathi Postlethwait, Larry Jones Staff attending: Mike Dale, Janice Stevanovic, Suzanne Baker, Bob Clutter, attorney A quorum is present. Mundy And welcome to the April 11th meeting of the Board of Zoning Appeals for the Town of Zionsville. The first item on the agenda is the Pledge of Allegiance. We’ll ask the audience to join us. All Pledge of Allegiance. Mundy Thank you. The next item is attendance. Mr. Dale would you – Dale Yes. Mundy Call the roll? Dale Mr. Mundy? Mundy Present. Dale Ms. Postlethwait? Postlethwait Present. Dale Mr. Pickle? Pickell Present. Dale Pickell, excuse me. Mr. Jones? Jones Present. Dale Mr. Lake? Lake Present. Mundy Very good. Next item is the approval of the March 1, 2023 minutes. Those were included in your packet. Are there any questions? Hearing none, is there a motion to approve? Postlethwait So moved. Mundy Thank you Mrs. Postlethwait. Is there a second? Lake Second. Mundy Thank you Mr. Lake. All those in favor please say aye. Page 1 of 17 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals April 11, 2023 All Aye. Mundy Opposed same sign. [No response] They are approved. We do have, I’m going to skip ahead from Continued Business to the first item there. We have had a request that Docket Number 2023-05-DSV, Fleenor at 10663 Barrington Way in Zionsville be continued to the May meeting. The request was not made in time to make it automatic so we will need a motion to continue that. If there are any questions I think the representative for that petition is here and could answer those if there are questions. Jones So moved. Mundy Thank you Mr. Jones. Is there a second? Postlethwait Second. Mundy Thank you Mrs. Postlethwait. All in favor of continuing Docket Number 2023- 05-DSV please indicate by saying aye. All Aye. Mundy Opposed same sign. [No response] It is continued. That will be at the May 3rd meeting. Now on to Continued Business, the first item on the docket is – let me check too and make sure we had, do we have anyone virtually who have? IT No. Mundy No. Okay. If, if we have and if any wish to speak would you just let me know? Under Continued Business we have Docket Number 2022-71-DSV, M. Lohmeyer at 880 Starkey Road, Zionsville. This is a petition that was continued from the March 1st BZA meeting due to untimely publication of notice. The petition is for a Development Standard Variance to provide for a detached garage which deviates from the side yard setbacks, deviates from the rear yard setback, deviates from the residential accessory building height in the Urban Open Land Zoning District (O-1). Mr. Lohmeyer? Lohmeyer Hello, good evening. Yes, I’m Matt Lohmeyer. I live at 880 Starkey Road and, as you said, I’m here for a couple of, actually three variances this evening. Mundy Mr. Lohmeyer – Lohmeyer Yes? Page 2 of 17 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals April 11, 2023 Mundy Could I interrupt? I’m sorry – Lohmeyer You sure can. Mundy We, we changed the order in which we heard petitions and this is just the second time so I hope I can be forgiven for that but we actually are asking for the staff report first – Lohmeyer Okay – Mundy And not the petitioner’s report so you will have your day at the – Lohmeyer That’s the politest way I’ve ever been asked to be quiet. Mundy Well, so I’m, I’m glad I suddenly realized that before you got very far so I’m going to ask staff to give the report on that please and staff you’re well thought of. It’s just my old age. Baker Okay. Some of you may remember, I think Mr. Lohmeyer has been before the Board a few times within the past couple years. In 2020, he was replacing and expanding an existing garage which deviated from the side yard setbacks and the lot coverage and then in 2021 a new patio and pool which deviated from the lot coverage and side yard setbacks. Within that petition he also got a 20% lot coverage approval kind of blanketed with the property that would continue on so he possibly wouldn’t have, maybe not have to come back to the BZA which the lot coverage for Urban Open Land is typically 10%. The current request today, the petitioner is requesting to construct a detached garage on the northwest corner of the property which will not meet the 50-yard side yard setbacks proposing to be 22 and 34 feet and then also doesn’t meet the 25-foot setback proposing to be 8 feet. It also will exceed the height of the residential accessory building height requirement of 22 feet. Based on the restrictiveness of the Urban Open Land Zoning District and their development standards, there are also other adjacent Urban Open Land zoning designations that deviate from similar type standards and given the size of the lot, the adjacent land uses and adjacent zoning district, staff is favorable of all the requests and I’m happy to answer any questions. Mundy Any questions for staff? Hearing none, Mr. Lohmeyer, we’ll ask you to return to the podium. Lohmeyer Okay. Mundy And if you would, state your name and address for the record please. Lohmeyer I forgot everything I said before. I’m Matt Lohmeyer. We reside at 880 Starkey Road and then Suzanne took all the rest of my – Mundy You heard the staff report. If you would like to illuminate any of that for us or elaborate on any of that for us. Page 3 of 17 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals April 11, 2023 Lohmeyer No, I, I think I, it dawned on me this morning that when we’re talking about hardships, the size, shape of the lot and the configuration meaning the topography are what kind of dictate where the garage needs to go on the property and, fortunately, it sits down because we’re asking for a, a height variance as well for maximum height allowed. We’re putting it actually in a hole so we’re, we’re kind of disguising some of the height of the building with where it’s going to go but I, it dawned on me this morning to take some pictures and I didn’t realize the technology that we have available but I do have some pictures of my house and the lot and I’m happy to share those with the Board if you would like to see them. Dale You want to see the pictures? Mundy I’ve driven by it now three times, I think, for the sake – Lohmeyer Okay. Mundy Of looking at it – Lohmeyer Sure. Mundy Including today but would members of the Board like to see some photographs that he has? Postlethwait I would if they’re readily available. Lohmeyer And these are stapled copies, I’m sorry. Dale All right. Lohmeyer If you have any questions about those. Dale Okay. So you’re submitting these to the Board so the Board is going to keep these? Lohmeyer Of course. Dale Okay. Mundy How many copies are here? Lake So in a late edition to our packets we received some information from a neighbor who had some concerns about construction last time around and stormwater drainage. It appears based on a response from Lance Lantz that all that seems to be kind of covered and taken care and/or not the homeowner’s fault. Is that correct? Okay. Postlethwait And I have a question. I’m curious – you have two dog kennels in this building. Are these family pets, are they hunting dogs? Page 4 of 17 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals April 11, 2023 Lohmeyer They’re family pets. And I guess to further that – Mr. and Mrs. Wilson are here. They’re our neighbors to the further west and a little bit north of us but they, at their request, we’re actually moving those to the opposite end of the building so it reconfigures the footprint of the building inside. It doesn’t materially, materially change anything for the exterior of the building but we’re moving them to the east end of the building as opposed to the west and, which is kind of nice. It gets them closer to us and the house and – our dogs are in the house with us. They stay out there if we’re gone for an extended period of time or whatever. It gives them the opportunity to kind of have shelter and then go in and out as they please so. Mundy I’ll ask further to Mr. Lake’s point, the remonstrator letter we got, one of the items was equipment being used, I think it was a matter of noise from the equipment being used, either before or after the, the allotted time is so I guess that primarily has been a contractor, I assume, unless you’re doing it. Lohmeyer No, unfortunately, it was me. Mundy Okay. Lohmeyer And, and my only excuse or reason is trying to keep up with everything else going on and trying to complete the project in the season that we have in Indiana which is summertime. There were a couple of Sundays, probably more than two, that, that we saw Zionsville police officers on two occasions but there were probably a few more than that that we didn’t really have many options given time constraints that we were under. We tried to get the retaining walls, what you see in the pictures, built so. The, this barn, building, garage, whatever we’re going to call it is being built by a contractor, not by me, so we won’t have Sunday work during this, this one. Mundy Well this is proof that people do notice things like that. Lohmeyer Oh, I know. Mundy Are there any questions for Mr. Lohmeyer? Jones So when you flip the floorplan then are you going to shift the drive further west? Is that the plan? Lohmeyer The, the, the garage door will shift to the west which means I’m going to have a little bit of an angle coming in but I think I’ve got enough distance away from where the fence is that I can leave the opening in the fence the way it is and then kind of make my way into the garage through an approach. Postlethwait Just a question – this, this existing small building that I’m seeing in this photo is that going to be demolished or is that staying? Lohmeyer Umm – Postlethwait I’m trying to orient myself here based on these photos. Page 5 of 17 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals April 11, 2023 Lohmeyer Yeah the, the, it’s, it’s not going to be demolished. We’re actually going to move it because I don’t like to waste things so we’re going to move it and then that, but the new garage goes generally where that building is, yes. Postlethwait And am I right in my memory serving me appropriately that there’s an office area included in this or no? Lohmeyer No, there’s not. Postlethwait No? It’s just purely a garage – Lohmeyer It’s a garage. Postlethwait For storage of – Lohmeyer Yeah. Postlethwait Automobiles and other equipment? Lohmeyer Yep. Mundy No plumbing in the building? Lake I think where you get that is the section cut. Lohmeyer Yeah. Lake It says storage/office. Postlethwait Yeah. Lake Up in the upper level is where, is where you saw that at. Postlethwait I knew I – well, thank you for making me feel better. Lohmeyer Yeah, no, I don’t – Lake You weren’t imagining things. Lohmeyer I don’t think there’s going to be anything like that out there. I’ve got an office that I get to look over at the sewage treatment plant most of the time so. Most of the time I don’t know it’s there. Mundy If there are no further questions, are there any remonstrators to either support or oppose this project that are here? None online? Okay. All right. Any further discussion among the Board? Is there a motion on these petitions? Lake All right so for variance 1, I move that Docket Number 2022-71-DSV, Development Standards Variance to provide for a deviation of side yard setbacks of 22 foot and 34 foot for the construction of a detached garage for the property located at 880 Starkey Road in the Urban Open Land Zoning District (O-1) be Page 6 of 17 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals April 11, 2023 approved as presented and described based on the Findings in the staff report and staff recommendations, submitted Findings of Fact and substantial compliance with the submitted site plans. Mundy Thank you Mr. Lake. Is there a second? Postlethwait Second. Mundy Thank you Mrs. Postlethwait. All those in favor indicate by saying aye. All Aye. Mundy Opposed same sign. [No response] The motion carries. Lake Okay, variance #2, I move that Docket Number 2022-71-DSV, Development Standards Variance to provide for a deviation of the rear yard setback of 8 feet for the construction of a detached garage for the property located at 880 Starkey Road in the Urban Open Land Zoning District (O-1) be approved as presented and described based on the Findings in the staff report and staff recommendations, submitted Findings of Fact and substantial compliance with the submitted site plans. Mundy Thank you Mr. Lake. Is there a second? Postlethwait Second. Mundy Thank you Mrs. Postlethwait. All those in favor indicate by saying aye. All Aye. Mundy Opposed same sign. [No response] That motion carries. Lake And variance #3, I move that Docket Number 2022-71-DSV, Development Standards Variance to provide for a residential accessory building to exceed the maximum height up to 24 foot 10 inches for the construction of a detached garage for the property located at 880 Starkey Road in the Urban Open Land Zoning District (O-1) be approved as presented and described based on the Findings in the staff report and staff recommendations, submitted Finding of Fact and substantial compliance with the submitted site plans. Mundy Thank you Mr. Lake. Is there a second? Postlethwait Second. Mundy Thank you Mrs. Postlethwait. All in favor please indicate by saying aye. Page 7 of 17 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals April 11, 2023 All Aye. Mundy Opposed same sign. [No response] Motion carries. Good luck Mr. Lohmeyer with your project. Lohmeyer Thank you all very much. Mundy The next item on the agenda is Docket Number 2023-06-DSV, Devonshire Development by Pulte Homes at 8666 East 400 South in Zionsville. Petition for a Development Standard Variance to provide for an increase of sign square footage for monument signs at two subdivision entryways in the Rural Single and Two- Family Residential Zoning District (R-2). Staff, could we have your report please? Baker The Devonshire Subdivision is approximately 68 acres, proposed total of 100 single-family homes. Previously, you may recall, the BZA approved a Development Standards Variance for the reduction of the front yard setback to 25 feet. The petitioner is now proposing two entry signs at both the entrances off of 400 South and 875 East. Each entry will have two monument sign, signs on either side of the road which will be 5 feet and proposing to have signage of approximately 24.9 square feet. Per the Rural R-2 Zoning District allows for a maximum sign of, sign size of 6 square feet. Most likely the rural jurisdiction didn’t consider subdivision signs. There are many subdivisions in the area such as Hampshire, Ashburn, Pemberton that are zoned Urban R-SF-2 which those allow for a maximum sign square footage of 24 square feet. The scale of the proposed signs seem appropriate given the surrounding built environment along with the other similar sized signs in the area so staff is favorable of the request and happy to answer any questions. Mundy Thank you. Is there any questions for staff? Hearing none do we have the representative please? Price Yes, good evening Mr. Chairman and members of the Board. My name is Matt Price here tonight on behalf of Pulte Homes. Suzanne did an excellent job of, of giving you a summary. What happened procedurally on this signage question is that what you see before you is actually the signage package that was approved as part of the development plan for the project when it was taken through for platting and development plan approval. When we applied for permits to actually construct the signs, we discovered that both the height of the sign and the area of the sign face exceeded the R-2 standard and that wasn’t discovered until post- approval and so we filed that variance to correct that situation with the assistance of staff and we did two things: One is we reduced the height of the sign to be compliant so we’re not here seeking any relief with regard to the height of the sign but we are seeking relief in order to maintain the face area for the signs and I had just a brief presentation to show you where they are. Yeah, so we have two entryways, one on County Road 400 and one on 875. The 875 one is kind of in the upper right. That’s the first section of the project that’s Page 8 of 17 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals April 11, 2023 being developed. With staff’s recommendation, we went ahead and applied for relief to build the section two signs as well once those are, once that phase of the development is moving forward. And the next slide – this is the sign design itself. It's masonry brick columns which are just under 5 feet with cedar plank connecting the outside columns with the inside columns and then we have kind of an enlarged picture of the Devonshire script itself which is the what, what the variance relates to which is I’ve, I’ve looked at the sign diagrams in our plans and measured it myself just on the sign face. It’s something around 2.3 feet high and around 8 feet 9 inches long and fits just inside our sign monumentation and so that’s the, that’s the sign area that we’re seeking the variance for. Like Suzanne mentioned, it’s very similar to the sign, signage that you see for other surrounding subdivisions with Pemberton and Cobblestone, Ashburn and other signs that you see all around Town for entryway signage for subdivisions. The table in the ordinance that we’re seeking the variance from speaks in terms of residential identification signs. It’s very unclear that that was meant to encompass major subdivision entryways and so it’s been applied that way and so we’ve sought a variance I know, I know maybe two or three months ago, Fischer Homes did as well. I think they had a sign area as well as some height with, with regard to their sign but it’s a very similar variance to that as far as the, the nature of the relief that we’re, we’re seeking. Happy to answer questions that you have about the proposal and appreciate your consideration. Thank you. Mundy Any questions for the petitioner’s representative? Is there anyone here to remonstrate for or against this petition? Anyone online? IT No. Mundy No. All right. There was one puzzling point in the petition. Where we, it appears there were two different sign sizes yet it also was confusing because it said both signs, both locations so we, is there an explanation for that? Price Yeah – Mundy And is it the 24.9 is the final number? Price That’s my final offer. No, the – I spoke to Suzanne about that actually before the hearing and, and what I’ve decided to do is stick with the number in our actual petition and I’ll tell you what it is, is when I measure the sign face I think the sign face the way that term is defined under the ordinance which means the smallest area that encompasses, encompasses the lettering is actually smaller than that but I didn’t want to get caught in was that I measure it one way and the permitting office measures it a little bit differently and I’m a square foot short you know one way or the other. So I think if you take the absolute maximum of our sign face and take the height times the width you get to the number in our application but it’s actually larger than the script of the sign itself so. That’s the discrepancy. Mundy Okay. Price Yeah. Page 9 of 17 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals April 11, 2023 Postlethwait I, I know that it was meant to clarify but in my case it didn’t and – Price Okay. Postlethwait So I’m going to do a follow-up here. Price Sure. Postlethwait So the total length of that entire entryway with the four pillars and the cedar and so on is, is what exactly? Price Ummm – Postlethwait When you’re talking about 24.9, you’re talking about that interval section where the Devonshire is written? Price That’s right. Lake That’s that only part ______. 30:31 Postlethwait The sign face? Okay and the rest of it can be – Price Correct. Lake It’s been seen, it’s decorative entry elements but it’s not considered signage. Postlethwait Sort of like part of the landscaping and not part of – Lake Yeah. Postlethwait The sign. Okay. That answers it. Thank you very much. Lake I think the challenge that Mr. Price was pointing out is if you measure from brick column to brick column – Postlethwait Right. Lake Where the Devonshire sign is and from the top – Pickell Right. Lake Line of the sign you see the bottom line of the sign you’re going to get 24.9. That’s not really how you measure the sign but to be safe in case somebody wants to say hey, you didn’t meet your requirement, he’s being safe. Postlethwait Okay. Mundy Better to be over than under. Price Yes sir. Page 10 of 17 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals April 11, 2023 Mundy Is there any further discussion among the Board? Hearing none, is there a motion on this petition? Lake I guess I’ll get it – I move that Docket Number 2023-06-DSV, Development Standards Variance to provide for an increased size, size square footage of the entry monument signs at the property located at 8666 East 400 South, Zionsville Rural Single and Two-Family Residential Zoning District (R-2) be approved as presented and described based on the Findings in the staff report and staff recommendations, submitted Finding of Fact and substantial compliance with the submitted site plans. Mundy Thank you Mr. Lake. Is there a second? Jones Second. Mundy Thank you Mr. Jones. All in favor please indicate by saying aye. All Aye. Mundy Opposed same sign. [No response] Motion carries. Best of luck. Next item on the agenda is Docket Number 2023-07-DSV, Groover’s Legacy LLC at 8280 East 250 South, Zionsville. Petition for Development Standard Variance to provide for accessory structures which exceed the permitted accessory square footage in the Rural Single-Family Residential Zoning District (R-1). Can we have the staff report, please? Baker Yes, thank you. The petitioner is proposing to construct a 720 square foot carport and a 240 square foot addition to one of the existing barns on the property. The added accessory square footage will be over the permitted primary square footage thus not being subordinate to the primary. The size of the residence is 2,178 and the proposed additions, there’s actually – I made an error in the staff report and it will be 3,397 square feet will be the total accessory square footage if, if approved. Due to the residential history of the property and deviations from this requirement and surrounding and the surrounding properties, staff is favorable of the request and I’m happy to answer any questions. Mundy Thank you. Any questions for staff? Hearing none does the petitioner’s representative wish to enlighten us further? Price Yes, again for the record, Matt Price on behalf of Groover’s Legacy. We have a representative of the company here today as well. His, his name is Will Maltby, he’s sitting in the back. Will purchased this property, I believe, back in December? Maltby July. Page 11 of 17 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals April 11, 2023 Price July, I’m sorry, last year. It’s a, it’s just a, it’s on the north side of County Road 250. It’s a bit of a fixer upper, if you will. Will is very handy with craftsmanship and woodworking, repurposes older building materials to finish exterior and interior of homes and is making several improvements to this property. It’s just under 3 acres in size and what he’s seeking to do is to add essentially a hobby workshop of 200 square feet, 240 square feet, excuse me, and a carport of 720 square feet which will be kind of centrally located and closer to the dwelling itself than either one of the other existing structures including the barn. The, as Suzanne mentioned, the, the total by which the square footage exceeds the 2,178 of the dwelling, my calculation is that it’s 1,218 square feet in total. So he adds 960 onto a small discrepancy today, he has a little more accessory on the property today than what’s strictly permitted but this would allow some improved functionality with the property. It’s a very reasonable deviation in comparison to other similarly situated R-1 properties in the area and Will and I would be happy to answer any questions that you have about his plans. Thank you. Mundy Thank you Mr. Price. Any questions for the petitioner’s representative? Is there anyone here or online wishing to speak for or against this project? Okay. Any further discussion among the Board? If not, is there a motion on the petition? Jones Sure. I move that Docket 2023-07-DSV, Development Standards Variance to provide for an accessory structure which exceeds the permitted accessory square footage at the property located at 8280 East 250 South, Zionsville in the Rural Single-Family Zoning District (R-1) be approved as, approved as presented and described based on the Findings in the staff report and the staff recommendations, submitted Finding of Fact, substantial compliance with the submitted site plans. Mundy Thank you Mr. Jones. Is there a second? Postlethwait Second. Mundy Thank you Mrs. Postlethwait. All those in favor please indicate by saying aye. All Aye. Mundy Opposed same sign. [No response] The petition is approved. Best of luck. That concludes the petitions for this evening. There’s one item which I’ll bring up for perhaps a discussion with the Board and that is there was, Larry, I think you last meeting or maybe two meetings ago had asked about, it was almost like the Larry Jones Paper Reduction Act that the U.S. Government did a few years ago, but asked about eliminating some of the paper for those who get hard copy and I, I was not privy to all of that discussion so I wasn’t sure what you had asked about but I shared with staff I, too, had some concerns when we have three, a petition with three variance requests we get much of that material three times and do we need to get it three times? I’ve, I’ll ask staff to report or, or respond to Page 12 of 17 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals April 11, 2023 that. They, they have to me so I, but I want to make sure that I, we have, if we have an interest in reducing some of the paperwork let’s, as a Board let’s kind of discuss that and suggest to staff in order to get that done. Jones Well we did, just, I was going to go back and look at the proposal we just had in front of us. Lake I think if I can just summarize what it is. You get the original petition then you get a copy of what they had to send out to everybody which is the same as the original petition. So you get the same plans twice, you get the same staff report twice, you get the – Baker Like if you had a special exception and a development standard? Lake Well, no, I mean just really any submission you get duplicate. Postlethwait It’s a duplication. Lake Yeah, you get the staff report, you get the plans and all that and then you get what they, what was sent out which is the same, same report, same plans, same everything – Baker The petitioner’s materials. Lake Yeah. Baker I think that’s was Larry was describing. Pickell _______ 39:26 electronic or I do. Lake Yeah, and so is there a way to just truncate that for people that get it printed just so you’re printing half as much information? Jones I mean like the current proposal here in front of us you get to page 10 which has the, the variance Findings of Fact and then I think just about everything after that is basically a, a duplicate, correct? Maybe the next section – Pickell Each petition has to be entered or recorded, right? So that’s why there’s the duplication and, and I understand that – Baker Right. Pickell But is there a way in our packet you can say see section, instead of reproducing it – Stevanovic So as consideration might be that the notice and materials we hold back, we keep them in our folders. Staff is responsible for making sure that the, the petition is properly noticed and that would probably eliminate four, five, sometimes many pages and if we could limit our discussion on what we would extract rather than being picky and choosy about what the petitioner wants you to see, if we generally say the notice of public hearing, the affidavit, the mailings that so many Page 13 of 17 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals April 11, 2023 people like to show you pictures of the envelopes – that, I think, would be less paperwork for you, a little bit more comfortable for staff. We still have it, we still can produce it at a meeting if it’s needed but it doesn’t have to be in the petition. Postlethwait So my question is how many of us are now still getting hard copies? Pickell I, I had asked for no hard copies last time and I, I got them tonight and that’s fine but I would prefer not to get them. I can totally see electronically. Postlethwait So it becomes a little bit of a moot point if it’s one person versus all of us having received all of that paper so – Stevanovic That’s entirely true. Postlethwait And I, I don’t know if I, but I would worry about is extracting something that then at some point the petitioner says “Hold on you didn’t, you didn’t submit all of, you didn’t submit all of what I asked.” Baker Well and I don’t think, I think we’ll always have it available and electronic it’s just, I think, the conversation is what do you want printed – Postlethwait Yeah. Baker But it’s always available, everything electronically to you all. Postlethwait Yeah. Mundy Am I the only one – Andy, you said you are, you did not request paper – Pickell Right. Mundy Larry, I know you’ve typically been going with using your, your computer. Jones Yeah. That’s, I mean that’s – Mundy Kathi, you’re doing the same. Postlethwait Digital. Mundy Chris, have you, you’ve moved to digital? Lake I’m digital. Mundy So I’m the only – Postlethwait Oh – Clutter I like copies too, Steve. Mundy I’m fine with, I’m fine with whatever you give me but – Page 14 of 17 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals April 11, 2023 Postlethwait I didn’t mean to put you on the spot. I apologize. Mundy Well I, no I thought all, all along why, now I’m looking through the same thing for the second time and the third time and for the sake of saving some paper, I suppose, it’s, I, I would prefer not to get it the second and third time or duplicates that I don’t need to see a second time. If, so if, if staff can eliminate those that would be fine with me. I still like the paper because I make notes on there and it’s a lot easier and I haven’t graduated to a laptop. I just have a tablet so using a tablet here is not all that convenient. Pickell I, I do have a question – do you guys receive everything electronically? Even if it’s brought to you in paper form, when you take it it’s electronically scanned and put into your system. Stevanovic Yes the petitioner is required to send us digital and that hard copy that they also submit and typically we’re only asking for a couple of copies. That has to be exactly what the digital is. Pickell Okay. So it’s – Jones And do – go ahead. Pickell It, it’s required that, that a hard copy come with it? Required. Stevanovic We need to have that hard copy for the public viewing. Unfortunately, there isn’t a computer at the front desk so if we have a resident that wants to come in and view the materials, having something in hard copy is important. Pickell Okay. Stevanovic Uh huh. Jones I was almost going to go to say the same about the items the petitioner supplies when it comes to – on occasion we’re getting full sets of civil engineered drawings and – Postlethwait Right. Jones I mean, I mean, yeah, I can go through them but – Mundy Yeah. Jones We don’t. I, I don’t know – I don’t and. Because with some of the larger development plans that come through though I don’t mind getting the full binder of information they provide but that’s more Plan Commission than us so for us, for BZA, I’m, yeah, I’m fine with not getting any paper and if there was something that comes up that when I’m reviewing it at home I want I can usually print that page out – Postlethwait Right. Page 15 of 17 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals April 11, 2023 Pickell Right. Jones So I’d be fine without, without getting any paper per se. I mean you guys will still need your paper hard copies and all that kind of stuff but it, I mean, once again, every night we dump off 20 pounds of paper that – Stevanovic That works for us. Baker Uh huh. Mundy Well and since we are given the option each time of selecting paper or electronic let me, let me say what I, what I will the staff about myself and make sure that it would fit all of your needs as well in case you want paper and that is, excuse me, that I would want paper but don’t need the replication of the same item in my packet as was filed or that represents the petition material for variance #2 and #3, etc. and if that makes sense from a staff point to eliminate that, I’m fine with that as long as everybody else is fine with that and that they request paper that’s what they will get as well. Are the rest of the Board members agreeable to that – Postlethwait Yes. Mundy If they elect the paper copy? Lake Yeah. Mundy Is that clear enough then in terms of what we would like to have? Stevanovic We’ll do our best to streamline it, yes. Mundy All right. Thank you very much. I think the only other item of business, as I mentioned, and that is that the engagement letter with the Taylor, Minnette, Schneider & Clutter law firm is due and I make that as a mention that it’s not something that we have decided or need to. It does require a signature by myself but just to let you know that we are renewing that engagement with the law firm that we have been using now for several years. And with that is there anything else from anyone? Hearing none, is there a motion to adjourn? Lake So moved. Jones So moved. Postlethwait Second. Mundy We have two, two moves and a second. Mr. Pickell, would you like to, to spade a third? Pickell Present. Mundy Present, all right. Thank you. All in, all in favor say aye. All Aye. Page 16 of 17 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals April 11, 2023 Mundy We are adjourned. Dale Thank you everybody. Page 17 of 17