Zionsville Town Council

Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 ZIONSVILLE TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES FOR JULY 1, 2024 AT 7:00 P.M. EST ONSITE MEETING 1100 West Oak Street This meeting was conducted onsite. All Councilors participated in person. Council Members Present: Jason Plunkett, President; Brad Burk, Vice President; Tim McElderry, Craig Melton, Evan Norris, Sarah Esterline Sampson, and Joe Stein Also Present : Adam Steuerwald, Town Council Attorney; Mayor John Stehr; ZFD Chief James VanGorder; Cindy Poore, Director of Finance & Records; Lance Lantz, Director of DPW; Michael Susong, Stormwater Division Supervisor; George Lewis, Town Engineer; Corrie Sharp, Director of Economic Development; Amy Lacy, Municipal Relations Coordinator; and other Town Department Staff OPENING A. Call meeting to order B. Pledge of Allegiance Plunkett All right, good evening. I will now call to order the Monday, July 1, 2024 regular Town Council meeting. If you would please, stand and join me for the Pledge of Allegiance. All Pledge of Allegiance. Plunkett All right, I guess before we get started here on the agenda real quick, I just wanted to take a minute and offer my condolences and perhaps even the condolences on behalf of the Council to Janice Stevanovic, her family I should say, and friends. Janice worked for the Town. She was always a joy to work with here – very prepared and certainly had a great personality. I was really sad to hear about her recent passing. She’ll be missed by many and I would ask that you just keep her family and friends in your prayers so. Page 1 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 SWEARING IN OF FIREFIGHTERS Plunkett Up next on the agenda we have the swearing-in of firefighters and we will have Chief James VanGorder and Mayor Stehr. VanGorder Good evening Mr. President. Thank you for the opportunity to come before you this evening. A little bit about this group of six firefighters for the Zionsville Fire Department – this is the Fire Department’s first plus positive hiring in 6+ years. We’ve had several retirements and replacements of vacancies within the organization but this is the first time the Zionsville Fire Department has had any additional staff added in the past six years. These individuals began a joint recruit class with the Pike Township Fire Department. First and foremost, I’d like to thank Fire Chief Jeff Beam of the Pike Township Fire Department for allowing us to join that class. It was made up of Speedway, City of Lawrence, Lebanon, Zionsville and as well as Pike Township Firefighter recruits. There were 18 when they started, 15 completed the course. This is not given. This is a very difficult program and these individuals tonight as we swear them in are to be commended. There were 21 total weeks of the academy, eight of those were in the emergency medical services, one week of HAZMAT, one week of vehicle extrication, and 11 weeks of firefighting 1 and 2. The cadre or group of instructors that came before this group was amazing totaling 11 primary instructors. Notable within the Zionsville Fire Department was our EMS Manager, Kerry O’Haver, Ryan Sparks, our Division Chief of Training, Vincent Randolph, our Public Educator, and Captain Rob Coonfield were all primary instructors as part of this academy. A quick item of note – a few years ago, 30+ years ago, when I was hired at the City of Indianapolis, I was given one training burn before I was sworn in to the Indianapolis Fire and put in. The men today in this class that graduated for Zionsville Fire Department had over 40+ live fires through this cadre program before they are reporting for duty. Other noteworthy items, and I know most people came to see them so I’ll be quiet and let the Mayor come forward next, but I would be amiss if I did not mention there were two significant awards given in this class and we were honored to have both within Zionsville Fire Department. So when you see Andrew, excuse me – Adam Masters this evening, he received the mental attitude award winning for the class and then the highest academic honor, the number one in the class was Andrew Schulten. So those two individuals received top honors within the program. At this time, it’s my honor to introduce Mayor John Stehr to swear them in. Stehr Thank you Chief and first I would like to call forward John Adolay. VanGorder If the family would like to come up and join you, feel free. Stehr Raise your right hand and repeat after me. I, John Adolay – Adolay I, John Adolay – Stehr Do solemnly swear – Adolay Do solemnly swear – Page 2 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 Stehr That I will support – Adolay That I will support – Stehr The Constitution of the United States of America – Adolay The Constitution of the United States of America – Stehr And the Constitution of the State of Indiana – Adolay And the Constitution of the State of Indiana – Stehr And the Ordinances of the Town of Zionsville, Indiana – Adolay And the Ordinances of the Town of Zionsville, Indiana – Stehr I will faithfully – Adolay I will faithfully – Stehr Honestly – Adolay Honestly – Stehr And impartially – Adolay And impartially – Stehr Discharge all my official duties – Adolay Discharge all my official duties – Stehr In the position of Firefighter for the Town of Zionsville – Adolay In the position of Firefighter for the Town of Zionsville – Stehr Regardless of race – Adolay Regardless of race – Stehr Creed – Adolay Creed – Stehr Color – Adolay Color – Stehr Religion – Page 3 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 Adolay Religion – Stehr Sex – Adolay Sex – Stehr Or national origin – Adolay Or national origin – Stehr Of the persons I serve – Adolay Of the persons I serve – Stehr So help me God. Adolay So help me God. Stehr Congratulations. Adolay Thank you. Stehr Douglas Bagg, III – Raise your right hand and repeat after me. I, Douglas Bagg, III – Bagg I, Douglas Bagg, III – Stehr Do solemnly swear – Bagg Do solemnly swear – Stehr That I will support the Constitution of the United States of America – Bagg That I will support the Constitution of the United States of America – Stehr The Constitution of the State of Indiana – Bagg The Constitution of the State of Indiana – Stehr And the Ordinances of the Town of Zionsville, Indiana – Bagg And the Ordinances of the Town of Zionsville, Indiana – Stehr I will faithfully – Bagg I will faithfully – Stehr Honestly – Bagg Honestly – Page 4 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 Stehr And impartially – Bagg And impartially – Stehr Discharge all my official duties – Bagg Discharge all my official duties – Stehr In the position of Firefighter for the Town of Zionsville – Bagg In the position of Firefighter for the Town of Zionsville – Stehr Regardless of the race – Bagg Regardless of the race – Stehr Creed – Bagg Creed – Stehr Color – Bagg Color – Stehr Religion – Bagg Religion – Stehr Sex – Bagg Sex – Stehr Or national origin – Bagg Or national origin – Stehr Of the persons I serve – Bagg Of the persons I serve – Stehr So help me God. Bagg So help me God. Stehr Congratulations. Bagg Thank you. Stehr Thomas Bullock – Raise your right hand and repeat after me. I, Thomas Bullock – Page 5 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 Bullock I, Thomas Bullock – Stehr Do solemnly swear – Bullock Do solemnly swear – Stehr That I will support the Constitution of the United States of America – Bullock That I will support the Constitution of the United States of America – Stehr The Constitution of the State of Indiana – Bullock The Constitution of the State of Indiana – Stehr And the Ordinances of the Town of Zionsville, Indiana – Bullock And the Ordinances of the Town of Zionsville, Indiana – Stehr I will faithfully – Bullock I will faithfully – Stehr Honestly – Bullock Honestly – Stehr And impartially – Bullock And impartially – Stehr Discharge all my official duties – Bullock Discharge all my official duties – Stehr In the position of Firefighter for the Town of Zionsville – Bullock In the position of Firefighter for the Town of Zionsville – Stehr Regardless of the race – Bullock Regardless of the race – Stehr Creed – Bullock Creed – Stehr Color – Bullock Color – Stehr Religion – Page 6 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 Bullock Religion – Stehr Sex – Bullock Sex – Stehr Or national origin – Bullock Or national origin – Stehr Of the persons I serve – Bullock Of the persons I serve – Stehr So help me God. Bullock So help me God. Stehr Congratulations. Bullock Thank you. Stehr Adam Masters – Please raise your right hand. I, Adam Masters – Masters I, Adam Masters – Stehr Do solemnly swear – Masters Do solemnly swear – Stehr That I will support the Constitution of the United States of America – Masters That I will support the Constitution of the United States of America – Stehr The Constitution of the State of Indiana – Masters The Constitution of the State of Indiana – Stehr And the Ordinances of the Town of Zionsville, Indiana – Masters And the Ordinances for the Town of Zionsville, Indiana – Stehr I will faithfully – Masters I will faithfully – Stehr Honestly – Masters Honestly – Page 7 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 Stehr And impartially – Masters And impartially – Stehr Discharge all my official duties – Masters Discharge all my official duties – Stehr In the position of Firefighter – Masters In the position of Firefighter – Stehr For the Town of Zionsville – Masters For the Town of Zionsville – Stehr Regardless of the race – Masters Regardless of the race – Stehr Creed – Masters Creed – Stehr Color – Masters Color – Stehr Religion – Masters Religion – Stehr Sex – Masters Sex – Stehr Or national origin – Masters Or national origin – Stehr Of the persons I serve – Masters Of the persons I serve – Stehr So help me God. Masters So help me God. Stehr Congratulations. Masters Thank you. Page 8 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 Stehr Zachary Prickett – Please raise your right hand and repeat after me. I, Zachary Prickett – Prickett I, Zachary Prickett – Stehr Do solemnly swear – Prickett Do solemnly swear – Stehr That I will support – Prickett That I will support – Stehr The Constitution of the United States of America – Prickett The Constitution of the United States of America – Stehr The Constitution of the State of Indiana – Prickett The Constitution of the State of Indiana – Stehr And the Ordinances of the Town of Zionsville, Indiana – Prickett And the Ordinances of the Town of Zionsville, Indiana – Stehr I will faithfully – Prickett I will faithfully – Stehr Honestly – Prickett Honestly – Stehr And impartially – Prickett And impartially – Stehr Discharge all my official duties – Prickett Discharge all my official duties – Stehr In the position of Firefighter – Prickett In the position of Firefighter – Stehr For the Town of Zionsville – Prickett For the Town of Zionsville – Stehr Regardless of the race – Page 9 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 Prickett Regardless of the race – Stehr Creed – Prickett Creed – Stehr Color – Prickett Color – Stehr Religion – Prickett Religion – Stehr Sex – Prickett Sex – Stehr Or national origin – Prickett Or national origin – Stehr Of the persons I serve – Prickett Of the persons I serve – Stehr So help me God. Prickett So help me God. Stehr Congratulations. Prickett Thank you. Stehr Andrew Schulten – Please raise your right hand and repeat after me. I, Andrew Schulten – Schulten I, Andrew Schulten – Stehr Do solemnly swear – Schulten Do solemnly swear – Stehr That I will support – Schulten That I will support – Stehr The Constitution of the United States of America – Schulten The Constitution of the United States of America – Page 10 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 Stehr The Constitution of the State of Indiana – Schulten The Constitution of the State of Indiana – Stehr And the Ordinances of the Town of Zionsville, Indiana – Schulten And the Ordinances of the Town of Zionsville, Indiana – Stehr I will faithfully – Schulten I will faithfully – Stehr Honestly – Schulten Honestly – Stehr And impartially – Schulten And impartially – Stehr Discharge all my official duties – Schulten Discharge all my official duties – Stehr In the position of Firefighter for the Town of Zionsville – Schulten In the position of Firefighter for the Town of Zionsville – Stehr Regardless of the race – Schulten Regardless of the race – Stehr Creed – Schulten Creed – Stehr Color – Schulten Color – Stehr Religion – Schulten Religion – Stehr Sex – Schulten Sex – Stehr Or national origin – Page 11 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 Schulten Or national origin – Stehr Of the persons I serve – Schulten Of the persons I serve – Stehr So help me God. Schulten So help me God. Stehr Congratulations. Schulten Thank you. VanGorder Mr. President, if I could, I’d like to have Deputy Chief, Josh Frost, conclude this evening’s swearing in with a couple of important mementos. Plunkett Certainly. Frost Okay, this is really a message for all of our Probationary Firefighters now. You have joined our family with the Zionsville Fire Department and as a result, you are part of our history and we hope that when you look back on your career, you write the story that you want your legacy to be and you’re defining what your history is going to be. As a memento of that, the executive staff collectively got together and we have a special celebration bottle for you to open in 20 years and you’ll see that it’s got the crest and the open after date on June 7 of 2044 that you can sit down with your, your classmates, your shift mates, pour a toast and remember what your legacy is and tell the stories of your career. So we hope that you’ll accept these. We have these for you upstairs afterward. In addition to that, regardless of what your religious affiliation is, St. Florian is the patron saint of Firefighters and for each of you we have a Maltese cross with St. Florian on it with your unit number on the back that we’d like for you to wear and when you feel it against your chest you’ll remember that there are a lot of people counting on you. Your family is counting on you to return home, your shift mates and your coworkers are planning on you to do your job as you’re going to be counting on them to do their job so everybody goes home safe. It’s going to be a constant reminder of what we’re called to do and stay safe so that you can get home to your families which rely on you to be there for them , you’re providing for your families and it’s a noble, honorable profession and with that we’d like you to accept those and wear it with pride as well so that you remember what you’re here to do. Thank you. Plunkett Thank you very much Chief and Mayor Stehr and to all, all, all the new Firefighters thank you very much. This is always such a, a neat and humbling ceremony to have in Town Council Chambers and appreciate you guys doing that here with us. I would, if it’s okay, if, if you’d like, maybe just offer a couple minutes to everybody to clear the room. You don’t have to stick around for the rest of the meeting if you don’t want to and you can head out there and we’ll, we’ll pause here and wait for you guys to, to head out there so. Page 12 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 APPROVAL OF THE MEMORANDUM OF THE JUNE 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING Plunkett Up next on the agenda is approval of the June 17, 2024 Town Council meeting memoranda. A copy has been posted. Are there any questions from Councilors? Sampson I found a typo on page 11 of 15. It’s not a big deal but at the end of a sentence there’s like an extra cr just kinda put there randomly. I don’t know. Do you want me to, do you see it or do you want me to read the sentence it follows? Lacy I can, if it’s on page 11 I’ll find it. Sampson It’s in the middle. Lacy Okay. Sampson You can kinda see it there. Lacy Okay, I will correct it. Thank you. Sampson Thanks. Other than that I didn’t see anything. Plunkett Okay. I’ll make a motion to approve the meeting memoranda minutes. Sampson Second. Plunkett Second from Councilor Sampson. All those in favor signify by saying aye. All Aye. Plunkett All those opposed same sign. [No response] Motion passes 7 in favor, 0 opposed. APPROVAL OF THE JUNE 2024 PAYROLL CLAIMS Plunkett Up next is the approval of the June 2024 payroll claims. Are there any questions from Councilors? Otherwise, I would entertain a motion. Melton Motion to approve. Plunkett I got a first from Councilor Melton. Burk Second. Plunkett Second from Vice President Burk. All those in favor signify by saying aye. All Aye. Page 13 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 Plunkett All those opposed same sign. [No response] Motion passes 7 in favor, 0 opposed. APPROVAL OF THE JULY 1, 2024 CLAIMS Plunkett Moving along – up next is the approval of the July 1, 2024 claims. Are there any questions from Councilors? I would entertain a motion. Stein I move to approve the July 1, 2024 claims. Plunkett First from Councilor Stein. Sampson Second. Plunkett Second from Councilor Sampson. All those in favor signify by saying aye. All Aye. Plunkett All those opposed same sign. [No response] Motion passes 7 in favor, 0 opposed. REQUEST TO SPEAK Plunkett Up next is a Request to Speak on Agenda Item. Amy, do we have any requests to speak? Lacy No, we do not. MAYOR/ADMINISTRATION UPDATE Plunkett All right, so then we would move on to the Mayor and Administration Update. Mayor Stehr – good evening. Stehr Good evening Councilors. I want to begin tonight by just taking a moment to congratulate our six new Firefighters that we swore in. Not only do I think all of us appreciate their commitment but I appreciate the way they show up for each other too and the, the group of folks who we have looking after our safety here in Zionsville. I know that they’ll be welcomed with open arms by our current staff. The next item I have is the second quarter, the second fiscal quarter of the year ended yesterday. We believe we are on track with our spending and revenue based on the Town budget. All of our accounts are reconciled through the end of May. It will take a few days to do that for June so we do plan to have a complete mid-year financial report to you at your next meeting including an update of where we are and how that’s going to inform the rest of 2024. Page 14 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 And that leads me to budgeting. As you know, we’ve been working on developing a 5-year spending plan and this has really been a very helpful tool in the 2025 budgeting process. All of our department heads submitted amendments to their 5-year spending proposals on Friday and we are working through all of this with our advisors at Crowe with a goal of bringing forth an appropriate 5- year plan to show you at your August 5th meeting as well as an initial budget and spenddown plan for our surplus at the budget workshop which follows the August 5th meeting. Also in finance, the banking RFP is out. Following good practice we are offering local banks an opportunity to compete for housing our Town accounts. The goal is to make sure we’re getting the best deal on fees and general banking expenses. We have had significant interest and right now we’re answering questions that have come back and we expect to report back to you on the results, again, on August 5th. So it will be a good day on August 5th. We have a lot to talk about in our finances. One other item here – iPads. Our IT Department has purchased iPads for use by not only the Town Council but also all of our regularly meeting Boards and Commissions. They will stay at Town Hall. They will be on chargers and they’ll be used for all public meetings. As a practical matter, you’re still going to get your emails ahead of time with the agenda and other pertinent information but that information will no longer be printed for you on paper. It will be contained on the iPads that are here at Town Hall. When you add the cost of paper and toner, we spend about $1,000 a month on printing costs which these devices will replace so we expect them to pay for themselves in about three months and then we’ll realize significant savings beyond that. The iPads are in-house, they’re in the process of being set up and they will be available to you on your July 15th meeting. Any questions about that? Great. And then briefly, I just wanted to emphasize what President Plunkett said at the beginning. Today we did have a funeral, the, the Town Hall was closed for several hours so the staff could attend the funeral for Janice Stevanovic. She had been here a long time and I think that her impact on Zionsville will be felt for many years to come. So we certainly appreciate her. And then one other thing – the financial, not the financial report, excuse me – the economic development report from Corrie Sharp has been presented to you in written form so that’s in your packet and if you have any questions, she is here to answer questions but, I assume that you all read that ahead of time and if you have any questions you can ask them to her now. Otherwise, that’s all I have. Does anybody have any questions for me? Stein Mayor, are you able to share how many banks engaged with us for the RFP? Just a ballpark. It doesn’t have to be exact. Stehr Approximately 9. The rule is they have to have a bank branch within the limits of Zionsville, within the Town limits of Zionsville and Cindy just informs me we’ve had 9 banks respond so far. Page 15 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 Stein Great. Sampson I don’t think I got Corrie’s presentation. Plunkett Yes, I didn’t get it either. Sampson Did you get it? We didn’t get it. Sorry. Stehr Well that’s okay. Do you want to step up and talk about that? Sampson I just wanted to make sure it wasn’t just me that’s why I was doing a little survey – Stehr Yes – Sampson Back here. Norris Just to clarify, I do think we may have gotten it in an email but it, it just wasn’t included in our packet. Sampson Yes, I don’t know. Did you guys read it? McElderry I did. It was separate from our packet. Stehr It was, it was in the email stack I thought that we sent out to you. Lacy I think it was. Stehr Amy says it was. Sampson Okay. Lacy But they had printed ones and I think it was not in the printed one. It was just in the email. Sampson I’m sorry. Plunkett Yes, that’s all right. No, I mean – Norris It just wasn’t in our printed packets that Amy printed – Stehr Yes – Norris And you know what? I guess I – McElderry Is it the RDC monthly report? Lacy Yes. McElderry Yes, so that should be in the overall Council packet, not – Page 16 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 Plunkett All right. Sampson Okay. TOWN COUNCIL UPDATES Plunkett Thank you Mayor Stehr. Up next would be any Town Council updates. Are there any updates from Councilors? OLD BUSINESS Plunkett All right, moving on – Old Business. There are no items for Old Business. NEW BUSINESS Consideration of An Encroachment Agreement Appeal – 9167 Iris Lane, Daniel Wood Plunkett So up next would be first item of New Business – Consideration of an Encroachment Agreement Appeal. This is 9167 Iris Lane. We have Lance Lantz, Director of DPW and is Daniel Wood in here as well? Okay, perfect. So I guess we’ll probably start with you Lance. Lantz Thank you and good evening. You recently had a very similar request just in the last few meetings so hopefully that is still fresh in your minds and what I’m going to say sounds both familiar and consistent. When staff receives an application for an encroachment into a drainage easement, they look for three items: One being pipes underground or infrastructure below grade that moves water underground, a swale or a shaped conveyance moving water above ground or if a portion of the easement is used for either a flood staging proper or flood routing. In this case, it was the presence of a well-defined swale that led our staff to deny this request and we take this approach because we try and move as much subjectivity out of the evaluation so that’s why we look at three things so that you don’t kinda get into a well, maybe here or maybe there. I have not visited this site but I have become familiar with it through aerial photography which is amazing these days and you can dance around all sorts of angles and it appears to me that the encroachment portion of this fence is parallel to their back property line back towards the back of the drainage easement. They, they actually backup there at the edge of the Spring Knoll subdivision, they backup to Smith Meadows and then there’s a smaller, smaller subdivision as well that kinda shares a common backyard. So this looks like it’s a section of fence that is being requested to sort of connect the evils that exist already now Spring Knoll has been around for some time so we don’t know when these other fences went in. No encroachment has ever been permitted without proper approvals but the approaches and stringency of the Town has shifted and changed through the years. So as I looked at the, at this situation, this particular situation, the, the, the things that I cautioned against at the last meeting when we really strongly guard against Page 17 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 the first introduction of fences and encroachment into an area that, that become visual cues for subsequent owners and neighbors to say it’s fine, we’ll just do what we want to do because there’s already a fence and we’ll just do all that. That has already happened so this is kinda like the last domino to fall in that when we try and stop the first domino from falling. So the, the addition of the fence section along the rear property line at the back of the easement, in my opinion, would not exacerbate any conditions that exist currently nor would it increase the likelihood of future encroachments. We talked about landscaping. Once you have a closed in space, future property owners want to landscape it. So this would be an occasion where it would not upset me at all if you exercised your rights if you so see fit to override staff. That allows staff to maintain their objective review process and save any subjectivity for discussions in this room. Sampson I mean, I read this plea – your, it’s your house, right? Are you Daniel? Wood Yes. Sampson Okay. I read this plea and I’m a mother of a special needs child so I see you, I hear you. I can’t imagine – I’m grateful that you are saying what you’re saying because I can’t imagine voting against this. I had a child that I had to run out of my house and search my neighbor’s pool for two years. I know that fear and I just want to tell you guys there’s nothing like that fear. My children were trained to look for their sibling at the bottom of a pool. So I don’t think there needs to be anything else said when you have a child with documented health. That’s why we’re a community. That’s why we make these votes. So, I implore all of you to dig deep into your heart and know that this is not a small request. This is not a dog that we can put a shock collar on. There is a job for us to look out for our community and that’s why I’m going to have to vote yes on this. McElderry I will, I will also say that I visited with Dan today. I went out and I saw the site. Just to describe for everyone – there’s a, a fence that goes up and over the swale on the north side of his property, a fence that goes up and over the swale on the south side of his property and then half of his backyard is fenced in on the back side by a neighbor behind him. So to your point, Lance, it’s, it’s literally three- quarters of the way fenced already. This is just an opening that allows his child an opportunity to escape from the backyard as far as I’m concerned. There’s also a great deal of vegetation back there so it, it’s, some of it’s going to have to be removed to put the fence in place anyway which I, I genuinely think that that vegetation, removing that will actually probably help the flow of water off the back of the swale. The other part is there is also a tree line on the very back of his property and Dan has graciously decided to move his fence line in from that so they will not be removing the larger trees that currently are there so. I think he’s put every bit of thought into this that he should and I agree with you in the sense that I don’t know if the other neighbors took the appropriate route. I’m thankful that you did and did this the right way and I’ll be following Sarah’s lead on this as well. Plunkett Any other questions or comments for Lance or for Mr. Wood? We can certainly bring him up if you guys would like. Page 18 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 Norris Yes, I guess can we, can we ask the petitioner to come up? Plunkett Yes, Lance, is there anything else you’d like to add to this? Lantz No. Plunkett All right. Lantz Unless something comes up here from the conversation. Plunkett Yes, Mr. Wood, if you wouldn’t mind just coming up to the microphone and just state your name and address for the record please. Wood Daniel Wood at 9167 Iris Lane in Spring Knoll. Plunkett Thank you. Norris Mr. Wood, just real quick – so, so when particularly when Joe Stein and I were out walking this neighborhood in the election process we noticed that there are a bunch of fences on neighboring properties. Can you give me an idea very quickly as to, as to what your neighbors look like in terms of how many of their yards are fenced in? Wood Umm, my neighbors on both sides have wooden fences that go around their entire property so it’s the entire back as well. It’s in a swale. And then the neighbors they’re not in the neighborhood, they’re in the neighborhood right next to it which is, I say, two-thirds of the back of our property is a big chain link fence and then it goes a mile, many acres – it’s beautiful, beautiful woods and that’s the other thing to make sure that he can’t get out and then go into the woods. We saw a deer in the woods – McElderry Yes – Wood Like 10 feet from the house so. But yes, most of Spring Knoll is fenced in on pretty much everybody, every yard. Norris Okay. Plunkett Any other questions or – Melton Not, not for the petitioner but for Lance. Lance, with regards to this, once, once this has been brought up and now, now we have this area that the petitioner may put in this fence, whose responsibility is it should the Town of Zionsville come in and do work on that swale to remove the fence or to replace the fence and – Lantz The property owner. Melton And just – say that again. Lantz The property owner. Page 19 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 Melton The property owner. So, I just want that to be acknowledged in particular because we’re, we’re, we’re having work done in our neighborhood and there’s an idea that when the contractor comes in and does work that the contractor needs to put everything back just the way it was perfectly and I think for the record I just want that to be clear as I’m getting some pushback for that, that repair. So, I just want it to be clear that all these fences that are in this swale are at the risk of removal and not replacement moving forward and even if we approve this tonight with a, a, a passing vote, does that still remain in place or does that mean that this particular fence, if the Town of Zionsville works through and does a repair on that swale or re, re-routes the swale, does the Town of Zionsville, because we’ve approved this at the Council level, have to replace this particular fence that gets approved tonight? Lantz No, it does not. What the affidavit does is essentially restate the local ordinance. It says you, as a property owner, are now expressly aware that anything you put within this easement is at your peril and should there be occasion for loss, the burden is on you. It sounds great initially but one, two property owners down the road those are not, if these are awkward conversations, those are horrible conversations when you have to tell someone your fence, even if you have an affidavit of encroachment, your fence has got to move, your playground has to move, you name it out there. They’re not fun conversations but, but you are correct. Melton Great. I think, I think that’s important having that on the record and the compassion for the situation. I completely understand and I understand it from a different perspective from an outsider different than perhaps another Councilor so I appreciate that information. I appreciate that, that giving the public this acknowledgement that it is still your responsibility should there be work in the drainage utility easement that needed to be completed by the Town or the County in my case so. Thank you. Norris Mr. President, may I ask – Plunkett Yes – Norris So is it my understanding the encroachment agreement will still be, if we, if we were to vote to uphold – excuse me – deny the appeal or uphold the appeal which denies your – would the encroachment agreement still be signed at the end of the day which basically spells out everything that Councilor Melton is alluding to? Lantz Yes, lots of double negatives here right? Norris Yes, I know – Lantz And deny the denied approval. You are correct. It is executed. The affidavit is executed and it is recorded with that parcel so that that knowledge is passed on to subsequent owners. Norris Okay. Page 20 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 Lantz For those who choose to read their entire title work at closing. Norris So it’s in, it’s in writing as well? Lantz It’s there, yes. Norris And runs with the land so. Stein Lance, just to be clear, this, I’m trying to think like Mr. Raimann who was here what, a couple months ago, like this doesn’t impact people that are coming in the future other than the fact that they know that if this gets approved that we’ve, we’ve done it, it is possible. I just don’t want to like – I’m thinking about the Pandora’s box, right? Lantz I understand and I’m always very cautious and aware of that so maybe this is perhaps a rare occasion of reasonableness for me and not so rigid on the application of the rules which I believe is very important to be universally similar and not to jump ahead too much on the agenda but this will be a talking point on the next agenda item so there’s always that. Like I said, this is the, this is the venue to have the subjective conversations. Why is this nearly totally unique from another situation? So – Stein Yes, that helps. Thank you. Melton So one other last comment is so, a fence can be put in front of or not in the drainage utility easement in this case, correct? So on the, the property owner has property not all in the drainage utility easement. Sampson He’s attaching to the other fences. Melton Okay. McElderry Yes, it would make a, he would – Lantz It’s at the, it’s at the rear of a 20, I believe, it’s a 25-foot drainage and utility easement. McElderry It would make the backyard quite small. Plunkett But he could. The reality is he could. McElderry It’s conceivable. It would be right off the back porch. Plunkett Yes, the reality is he could and that’s all he was asking I think so. McElderry I think the other point to, to put out there is that there is no sewer underneath. That was another issue with the last request and this is not an access point like the other situation where trucks might have to actually go down through the easement to service the, the drainage back there so this is fully enclosed, not accessible that I could see unless you tore down a lot of fences so it, it is a very different situation and, Lance, I very much respect your opinion and your Page 21 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 approach on this because I realize you make an exception for one, you open the door but this is the reason the appeals process, in my mind, exists is because this is one of those situations where it completely makes sense. Lantz And, you know, while, while we’re sort of educating on the process too, this is not any implied drainage review to this. You put something in an easement you also run the risk of changing the water flow and creating an adverse situation on a neighbor and that’s on them. McElderry Yes. Lantz We get drug into the conversation because the implication is the Town approved this so I’m fine but if you get out there and do anything in an easement – landscaping, fencing or otherwise and create a deleterious situation on your neighbor that, you know, that’s on the, that’s on the property owner so lots of, lots of cautionary comments. Plunkett Yes, there’s a lot, there’s a lot to work through on these things and I, in seven years on the Council this is the first time we’ve experienced the scenario where you’ve made a comment like you just made and as I say in every one of these, every time we come across one of these, I, you’re the expert in this stuff and I appreciate your perspective and knowledge just as all of our department heads are experts in these areas. I do think it’s important, to your point, to keep in mind that this is a scenario where regardless of whether there’s anything under it or not, if it does start to impact the neighbors negatively we’ve got, we could have a potential problem or, or Mr. Wood could have a potential problem there. I would go on record as saying this does not open up Pandora’s box for me. Lantz Thank you. Plunkett This is a very, this is a very specific situation but it and it certainly does not open up Pandora’s box so I would not advise anybody in the Town to just start suddenly sending in appeals so. Anything else from Councilors? McElderry I’d like to make a motion. Plunkett Hold on one second, Tim. McElderry Okay. Plunkett Can we just figure out how we make this motion? Steuerwald So you want to deny the – Plunkett So I guess, I guess what, so – Steuerwald Uphold the denial? McElderry I was just going to approve the appeal. Plunkett Is that, is that correct? Approve the appeal would be overruling the denial? Page 22 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 Sampson Consideration of an encroachment appeal. Norris Uphold the appeal and authorize the Town to engage in the consent to encroach agreement. McElderry I’ll let Evan take it. Sampson Wow. Second. Plunkett I don’t want to, I don’t want to step on your – McElderry That’s fine, that’s fine. Burk You can second. McElderry I can second absolutely. Plunkett All right Evan go ahead. Norris You want me to do it? Plunkett Yes. Norris All right, I will make a motion to uphold Mr. Wood’s appeal and authorize the Town to enter into the consent to encroachment and encroachment agreement. McElderry Second. Plunkett I’ve got a first from Councilor Norris and a second from Councilor McElderry, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Norris, Aye. Sampson, Burk, Plunkett, McElderry, Stein Plunkett All those opposed same sign. Melton Nay. Plunkett Okay, motion passes 6 in favor, 1 opposed. Thank you. Consideration of an Ordinance Amending the Stormwater Ordinance Ordinance 2024-15 (First Reading) Plunkett Up next is a Consideration of an Ordinance Amending the Stormwater Ordinance. This is Ordinance 2024-15. This is a first reading and we have Lance to present on this as well as Michael Susong, Stormwater Division Supervisor, and George Lewis if needed, right? Page 23 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 Lantz Yes, thank you. Joining me for this next agenda item is Michael Susong, head of our Stormwater Division and also with us this evening is George Lewis our Town Engineer. Michael was definitely the lead of this effort, however, George significantly contributed to the effort and may be valuable for any questions from his perspective should they arise. Before you you have consideration of an Ordinance 2024-15 amending Chapter 50 of the Code of Ordinances which is our local drainage code. You received a lot of information on this and I would point out there were two redlines offered. There was a technical redline version and there was a legal tech line, legal redline version in your packet. We’re going to focus on the technical. Those are the staff- driven changes to the contents of the ordinance. Once we handed that off to General Counsel for the Town as well as Ms. Harris for their review, there was a little bit of back and forth so that second legal shows all of our changes and then overlays the changes by the Legal Department, two Legal Departments, and then, of course, those are combined then, all changes are combined into the clean version that is a part of the ordinance for your consideration. I’d like, before we get started, to, to supplement or highlight just a couple of points from the memo that was from me in your packet and that is: 1) How timely we are proposing the removal of the drainage easement encroachment process within the ordinance proper. We are one of very few, if any, municipalities or counties in this region that put that expressly in an ordinance. Most of us in the northern tier of Indianapolis area work with Christopher B. Burke Engineering and use their model and we’ve not run across any other ordinance that still has this opportunity within it. That was originally included back in one of the first iterations of a modern drainage ordinance about 20-some years ago and at the time all we did was mimic the encroachment process that existed in Planning & Zoning. The easement encroachment process was already there so we just wanted to perpetuate that same process and make sure that drainage easements had the same consideration as a, as a generic easement, however, obviously, we’re a growing community in size and population. These requests are becoming more and more, more and more prevalent and I think also is the frustration of people who see this as an opportunity and assume the chances are good that they’re going to be allowed to do what the ordinance forbids but we think it’s much cleaner and it’s our recommendation in this amendment that we remove that provision from our ordinance and match all of our peer communities. The other item is noted in Section 50.007 wherein the DPW or Department of Public Works is assigned the authorities, rights and duties to periodically maintain and amend the Technical Standards Manual which is accompanied by reference or referenced within the ordinance. So what is a Technical Standards Manual in this case? It is about 500+ pages including appendices of water science, products, materials, technical design, calculations and best management practices. If an ordinance tells you this is what you have to do, the technical standards is a dynamic and living document that says this is how you can achieve what you have to do. There are many changes to the ordinance being proposed so I’m not suggesting that we go line by line here rather, Michael will give a, a, a brief overview of kind of the, the driver behind this process and perhaps the length that he’s been engaged in it and keep in mind, of course, this is an Page 24 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 introduction this evening for a first reading. We are happy if there are questions that don’t get addressed tonight or pop up, we’re happy to schedule conversations with any of you between this evening’s introduction and that time when it’s considered for its second or final reading and, obviously, it goes without saying giving the, given the considerable effort and thought put into this not just by our Stormwater staff and Engineering staff and guided by Christopher Burke Engineering, it is the recommendation of DPW that you consider this favorably so. Michael, the show is yours. Susong Right, well, thanks Lance. Get myself all set up here. Good evening. I’m really happy to be here to be talking to you tonight about this. It took a considerable amount of effort to get to this point. This presentation `is an overview of the Stormwater Ordinance Update. So the existing Stormwater Ordinance was adopted in December, on December 2, 2013. The proposed – give me a second here — all right, the proposed revisions fall into two categories: Regulatory and Non-Regulatory Edits. The effort to update the existing ordinance into the updated form involved many individuals in a very collaborative way. This included Jon Oberlander, Heather Harris, George Lewis, Lance Lantz and Siavash Beik. Siavash works for Christopher Burke Engineering. As Lance mentioned, Christopher Burke very much involved in the stormwater realm and they, Siavash has updated many other communities’ ordinance but he’s also created a model ordinance used throughout the State of Indiana for communities that don’t even have an ordinance. In a practical sense, the Stormwater Ordinance provides three, three things: Compliance with Environmental Protection Agency and IDEM regulations; (2) Orderly development and redevelopment of land in our community with regards to stormwater quantity and stormwater quality. The third, it provides other needed specific regulations such as permits, close-out steps to close projects out, drainage in a water course, drainage easements and many more. So those are like the three big things and you think about it, you break it down into those three, three items and you – there’s a lot of words in the ordinance, there’s a lot of detail but if you keep that in mind as we move through this it helps. Regulatory Revisions – As we are a regulated municipal separate storm sewer system commonly referred to as an MS4, we are required to comply with the regulations of EPA and IDEM. I like to think of this as a stack of umbrellas with the EPA being at the very top and the states falling underneath that large umbrella and then underneath each state there’s a regulatory entity and in our case it’s the Indiana Department of Environmental Management (IDEM) and there’s about 150 other MS4’s within the state that have to comply with all these requirements. So, so there are specific things these passed down regulations that come from the EPA and IDEM that we simply have to comply with and they’re really relatively worthwhile and very important to have but it’s very regulated and we’re trying to make sure that we’re complying with those things that are very important. So examples of these in our proposed ordinance include wetland requirements and review time limits. Other Revisions – I like to call these non-regulatory revisions, the bulk of these non-regulatory revisions are technical and formatting changes. These were done to improve the Stormwater Ordinance to help with the clarity and the, in the Page 25 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 actual document and align with current practices. From a policy standpoint, the policy change to remove the option to apply for a stormwater easement encroachment had, has been proposed in this ordinance as it stands today right now. And then – Norris Michael, back to that, to that last point can you, can you describe for me then the, the policy change specifically? Like the, the situation that we just encountered a few minutes ago is going to be removed from an option? Susong In this ordinance as it stands today, yes. Norris Okay. Susong And that was presented – I’m not sure exactly when that was put together and submitted but that was before this last submittal from the, the individual here tonight. So I’m, I’m, I don’t want to allow – I’ll let Lance jump up here. Lantz Sure, thank you. I’d had some communication from Ms. Harris who felt it would, this, this Council would be open to that and it might be the will. Those are awkward and uncomfortable conversations and I know that it, it’s becoming more and more difficult to retain flexibility and latitudes which introduces subjectivity to a lot of decision makings. They’re not fun conversations to have so Ms. Harris had suggested that we pose that. It’s certainly up to you guys whether it goes or, or remains so – Norris Is there an appeal process though spelled out in a different manner? Lantz No there is not for a drainage easement. Now that doesn’t preclude someone from coming to you and saying that it happens at the County Drainage Board so Boone County has a very similar ordinance. They do not have any type of encroachment appeal within their ordinance but that doesn’t, hasn’t stopped people from complaining to the Commissioners and saying do something about this. So, it is kind of an, it still happens it’s just not formally recognized now in the ordinance and when people read that, that would suggest to them that, that there’s a good chance perhaps that they could get what they want so it currently is entirely removed as a formal process in the ordinance. Norris Okay, thank you. Burk Yes, I had a similar question Lance. It removes the appeal process for County to weigh in as we did today but what you’re also suggesting is there’s no appeal process through the Town, through you, that they would apply for an appeal for you to make a determination? Lantz No. This, this says the rules are the rules. Easement, drainage easements exist for a purpose and reason and there’s nothing allowed in them. Page 26 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 Burk So in the case of today, which was very unique and I get that even for you, admittedly, you took a different opinion than you might otherwise, that would not have been able to happen. Is that correct? Lantz That is correct. McElderry Yes, it’s an, it’s an interesting confluence of factors that they would both be on the same agenda. Lantz Right. McElderry And I understand and former Councilors could probably speak to this, I don’t know how many times this comes up. It’s happened twice in my short tenure as a Councilor – Lantz It has not been – that’s a real uptick in frequency. McElderry Okay, that’s what I was kinda hoping for. So my, my point, I guess, is when there are situations like this we are, we, are removing that appeals process and I understand that other communities have already done that and this would be in conformance with them but I kinda, I kinda like the idea of being able to have someone who has a situation very unique like this one to be able to come forward. Again, 99% of the time we’re going to say hey, sorry but for that 1%, we’re literally voting on an ordinance that would remove that opportunity and Mr. Wood and his wife and their young child would have nowhere to go with this. Lantz Understood. McElderry So I don’t think this necessarily removes those awkward conversations. People are still going to present their case and have, make it awkward but I like the idea of it being in there. Lantz Certainly up to you, you know? Norris Sorry, we kinda – Lantz I’ll let Michael – Norris Broke Michael’s – Lantz Conclude here. Norris Yes. Susong All right, well, that’s what I’ll do. We’ll conclude here real quick. This update to the Stormwater Ordinance has been a collaborative effort to ensure compliance with other regulations and to make other revisions to improve the document. We believe this updated ordinance is ready for your consideration. We’re happy to answer any questions or to discuss portions of this document to help you feel comfortable with the decision at hand. And I think we really do want you to feel Page 27 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 comfortable with this in, in a broad sense and so if there’s any questions, happy to do that and definitely want to get as much feedback as possible and appreciate it, appreciate your time on this. Thanks. Plunkett Yes, I would point out – thank you very much, Michael. I would point out to Councilors that this is, as they mentioned at the beginning, this is an ordinance. This is a first reading so this will come back at the next Town Council meeting as well and, obviously, we can make adjustments as, as necessary. I will say from my perspective, I actually, I don’t necessarily want to spend a lot of time dialed in on the removement of the encroachment recognition process but I, from my perspective, I actually appreciate it. I think it makes it more cut and dry and I think it gets it out of our hands which is not necessarily a bad thing. McElderry Well it is interesting to point out President that there is still an appeal of notice of violation so someone could go and build that fence, they could be in violation and then appeal it and it comes back before the Town Council anyway. So it’s, it is, I don’t know that it necessarily removes some of the problems that we think it might. Lantz Yes. Sampson `is there a bigger problem, like this particular case that we just went over didn’t seem to be as problematic as the one before where we were concerned about growth into the pipes underneath or the passageway for a dump truck and I think, is there a way to separate the definition of what could be appealed versus not be appealed? Like if we’re talking about encroachment on the sewage pipes, you were pretty adamant that you, you gave us very strong feelings that you do not want that to happen but if it’s the encroachment on a swale it’s a little more flexible and that’s what we could consider. Like is there a way to separate it that way? Am I saying that wrong? Lantz No, I think what you’re saying is there a, is there a distinct, can we make a distinction between what stormwater facilities are within an easement and one or the other may be more favorably viewed for an encroachment. Possibly, we can certainly take a look. I’m not going to write things on the fly but I hear what you’re saying and I think maybe before we leave here tonight if there’s, if it’s possible to at least get some type of consensus of the Council even if it’s not necessarily that I will do this if it says that but give some direction on what you’d like to see in an amended ordinance next time we come before you. We can certainly, we can certainly look at that, yes. Norris May I ask a quick question? The, what are, what are your MS4 partners, what’s the, what’s the protocol in Carmel, Westfield, Brownsburg? Do you know? Do they, do they have a – Lantz No. Norris Appeal process or (inaudible) Lantz The answer is no, yes. Now we all recognize that there are maverick situations out there, right? You’ve got some subdivisions that have been around 20, 30 Page 28 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 years replete with these and people didn’t do this out of, out of spite or to thumb their nose. It was simply unaware of, of the restrictions and requirements. So we know that there’s, there’s, there’s policing and then there’s stemming the proliferation of these and we’re focusing on stemming the proliferation of these, particularly in newer subdivisions. Now you’re seeing more and more subdivisions come in with smaller lots, right? The developers are shrinking down the lots to make as many as possible and to do that then these lots are then heavily encumbered by the easements because we all need drainage, we all need sewers and we all need utilities to our homes. So I think that it’s kind of tightening the belt as sort of a reaction to what we’re seeing in the development world. In a perfect world these wouldn’t be on anybody’s property. There’d be strips of common area where these belong and there’d just be a wide-open space, people could fence their stuff in but I don’t believe that we can legally make those kind of requirements, certainly not in a drainage code. That would be more of a zoning type issue and Subdivision Control Ordinance of whether we have those type of latitudes or can you mandate – this is just a little shooting from the hip here, not necessarily germane to this conversation – but if a lot, you know, a lot has a minimum, lots of minimum sizes width-depth ratio, if, if a lot has to be encumbered by a 15-foot easement, do you add 15 feet to the, to the side of that lot? Now that may just make the conversation about more property and just not really affect any change but that’s, that’s kinda what we’re encountering here is these lots are smaller and smaller driven by profit and then they’re just jamming these utilities in between each lots. Sampson Is the measurement for the easement like I keep going back to last time – he needed 15 feet and his neighbor needed 15 feet so it became 30 feet? Lantz Right. The minimum easement, the minimum easement width is 30 feet – Sampson And who sets that? Lantz And that is off – our ordinance does. Sampson We set it, not the County? Lantz Yes, we set that. That’s correct, we set that and we kinda talked about this at that last easement – Sampson Yes – Lantz We need every bit of that space when we’re called to access the site in rear yards for operational space, material storage, dumping. It’s very, very hard to work surgically so you typically see these split between lots, 15 on one lot and 15 on the adjacent lot. Sampson I don’t do your job so I don’t know how wide it needs to be. It just seems a little extra wide and I think that’s what the requests are. Lantz Well, I think you’d have the same request whether it was 5 feet off my property line or 15. People are always going to want to maximize their entire lot. Page 29 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 Sampson Yes. Melton Lance, we have a, a, a neighborhood in our Town that has some issues with kind of a, a connected issue to completion but it’s partially like a unique drainage situation that was used in that neighborhood and I think it’s kinda a conversation we’ll be having here soon just to kinda chat about, at least the Council. Would this, would this new ordinance have any, would it have steered like that development potentially and if you don’t know what development I’m talking about – Lantz I know – Melton Perfect. So would, would it have steered that development into a, into a situation where potentially had, had it been more of a standard development, would it, would it have forced it to be more of a standard development as opposed to being able to utilize some of the unique practices that were used like permeable driveways, I guess. Lantz Right. No, not at all. Melton Okay. Lantz And, in fact, the ordinance and the accompanying Technical Standards Manual which has FAQs or fact sheets on innovative stormwater best management practices, we encourage these things. Melton Okay. Lantz The old, the archaic approach of your pond and pipes to a creek, we want to see that stopped. We want to see these innovative, we want to see these practices that retain the water locally, let groundwater recharge. So in that particular case no, I don’t know that our existing ordinance nor this ordinance would have had any effect the decisions that led to the situation now or is it to make it entirely private. Melton Perfect. Yes, I just, I realize there’s some unique drainage situations there and this is standard drainage situation – a 25-foot easement, swale so I was just curious about that. Lantz Well, to your point, the more developers become aware and comfortable with these innovative stormwater practices, the less need there are for easements. If you’re managing your water without pipes, you don’t need an easement. Melton Interesting. Great. Burk Lance, I guess I have a, a question and, again, always appreciate your leadership. I see the pros and cons – Lantz Sure, it’s a tough, it’s a tough dilemma. Page 30 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 Burk Obviously, we just had a scenario where we were able to approve and so the process, the only one I recall in my tenure in five years of doing this that it, that it was approved. What has come to light though are these, for lack of a better word, rogue behaviors where people decide I’m not going to ask for anything, I’m just going to go ahead and put it up and even in the example we probably heard today, there may be dozens of folks who just decided maybe they didn’t even know they were doing something they shouldn’t do. I don’t know that this discourages or encourages that if there’s no appeal or even for people who aren’t following the regs anyway, they just kinda do what they would like to do because they see their neighbors doing it. What are the penalties or what are processes in place already? We mentioned that if someone were told they can’t do this they could appeal. I think that’s what Tim was saying – they could still appeal the process of retribution but are we doing anything? How do we police this at all and what are the penalties of – I think we’re, we’re just not encouraging or discouraging what is going to continue to happen because they were on smaller, smaller lots. I think we’re going to see more and more of this but – Lantz So – Burk I don’t know that this is going to solve the problem that you’re trying to solve. Lantz So, policing is an impractical act. There, our community is full of these. Not just in more modern times but going back ages and ages. You would need an entire team of people if you wanted to be proactive and look for these violations. Our approach has been when someone, perhaps our, our staff is visiting a site that’s, that’s asked about an encroachment and they point to their neighbors. We can’t even go in a backyard and stand there and not look around and see probably three violations so we cannot react. We say if you feel like someone else `is in violation of any code we have, we have a code violation inspection form and we ask them to officially request it and then it triggers this process. We say you have a fence, you have this or that as an encroachment, you need to remove it and then they will appeal to this body and so then we don’t have conversations about what I can’t do but what am I going to lose? So I think as a practical and realistic approach to this is we wait until we’re made aware of a problem and then we tackle these encroachments when there is a specific impact that we can associate with that. Otherwise, in essence, you’re just saying hey, get your fence out of there because we don’t like it. Get your landscaping, get your playground out of there, we don’t like it. So we wait until a problem materializes and we have to investigate and then that leads to very clunky and awkward processes because many times people will flat out refuse or the encroachment is something significant, a retaining wall holding up their driveway, and so instead of being able to go in quickly and efficiently and address the project or problem, we then have to go jump through hoops and you have to get rights of entry, we gotta come around backyards, come across private property with proper, we have to get their permission anytime we’re outside of an easement and then it introduces the damage we cause, we rut their yard up, they want it fixed perfectly, we hit a sprinkler. It’s just really awkward when we don’t have and very nonproductive when we don’t have that, those easement rights. So, a little glimpse into, into the madness that is easement management but we are not proactive and I don’t suggest we become proactive and we wait and react to these when problems are brought to our attention and then do what’s necessary to correct that. Page 31 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 Sampson And does someone know if a code violation inspection encroachment form is filled out who filled it out so that we don’t have neighbors who hate each other suddenly looking for reasons to do it? Is it traceable or is this a hey, someone in the world said this? Lantz No, it’s absolutely traceable. In the older processes it’s been a few years since we began requiring these to be recorded so when you have a recorded document that’s readily retrievable – Sampson Right. Lantz And prior to that the Planning Department, that was who these were issued through, I’m assuming maintained some type of internal records so finger pointing in neighbors is nothing new – Sampson Yes. Plunkett Are there any other questions for Lance? I would, I would just point out as you think about this last slide here – the conclusion, our goal is to update the ordinance to ensure compliance with state and federal regulations and industry standards. The last update, Lance, you said was in 2013? Lantz Correct. Plunkett I mean I think that as we’ve all mentioned at various stages throughout the course of this recent conversation, none of us are experts in this and Lance having engaged his entire Town staff and the folks with Christopher Burke Engineering, I think that, I think that it’s certainly much appreciated on my end the time and effort and energy that’s gone into this and I think that, again, this is a first, first reading so we can have additional discussion should we need to. I’m certainly supportive of it as it, as it stands and as it’s written today and appreciate all the effort there so. Lantz Thank you. We look forward to receiving any comments subsequently between now and the second reading and I know you really can’t discuss anything amongst yourselves outside of a public meeting so feel free to send your thoughts independently and perhaps we can work with Council President Plunkett on what he and the leadership would like to see come back before this body. Sampson So, can I just reiterate one thing? So you’re saying the removal of an encroachment recognition process is in compliance with state and federal regulations and industry standards? Or is that not? Lantz The latter – Sampson Because when you said Ms. Harris worked on that that maybe thought that was more just individual with us. Page 32 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 Lantz We, this aligns our ordinance nearly identically to every other municipality and county in the area. We are one of the few, if the only, municipality that recognizes a formal process for encroachment. Sampson Okay. Plunkett I also think that helps just from a development perspective too. You mentioned just folks that come in here. I mean, there is more uniformity and it’s, it’s just cleaner and there’s not, you don’t have to worry about a lot of requests should you get into that type of situation so. Sampson Yes. Plunkett All right, any other questions for Lance? Lantz Thank you very much for your, your – Plunkett Thank you Lance, thank you Michael. Lantz I know this is – Plunkett George, you got off easy. Lantz I know this is a little bit of minutia but it, it really is an important step for the Town. Plunkett Great. If there are no other questions, I would make a motion to introduce Ordinance 2024-15 on first reading. Norris Second. Plunkett I got a first from President Plunkett, second from Councilor Norris. All those in favor signify by saying aye. All Aye. Plunkett All those opposed same sign. [No response] Motion passes 7 in favor, 0 opposed. Consideration of an Ordinance for a Stop Sign at Bennett Parkway & Redd Road Ordinance 2024-16 (First Reading) Plunkett Last New Business item is a Consideration of an Ordinance for a Stop Sign at Bennett Parkway and Redd Road. This is Ordinance 2024-16. This is also a first reading so this will come back to us at the next meeting unless we felt it appropriate to suspend the rules and Lance, we have Lance Lantz available here as well. Page 33 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 Lantz Good evening, Lance Lantz, Director of Public Works for the Town of Zionsville. Glad to be back in front of you. Sorry for the Lance show tonight. The last item on your agenda I won’t necessarily say was oversight but the history of Redd Road was a little bit unique. It came in initially in the Town of Zionsville and hopefully this map that was on the memo helped you to get oriented of what we’re talking about. Well, you can see the, the red line representing the county line. When Redd Road was first built it was built up to that red line. The expectation was it would be retained or, or stay a private access drive, however, all the development in Carmel, Carmel really wanted that road to become public so that they could manage it and regulate it and somewhere through the process Redd Road became publicly dedicated in the Town of Zionsville and Boone County. This came to light recently with a citizen request who wanted a stop sign and my first thought was oh, Redd Road is private but we did find out it is publicly dedicated and I guess since we’re in a night of firsts, this might be the first time I’ve ever said this which is we did not conduct a traffic study related to this and you usually hear me say that speed limits and stop conditions need to be predicated upon a study so here we go – first, this makes sense and I can’t find a reason to spend any money investigating this or time due to its proximity to Michigan Road, this really needs to be codified as a stop. Any questions? Norris Yes, I was just going to add I drive through this intersection a lot, noticed there – I mean I stop but I noticed there wasn’t an intersection and I guess to Councilor Plunkett’s mentioning, I would be in favor of suspending the rules if, if appropriate to, to pass this today. I don’t think of anything more important than putting up a, a stop sign at a controlled intersection. Sampson It’s just a stop sign stopping at like Java House, behind there and not the east- west from – Lantz This affects nothing on Bennett Parkway which – Sampson Okay, that’s what I wanted to hear. Lantz Is the main, the main road, the east-west and then down to 106th. This is the little access road behind Java House. Sampson It’s where you should stop but there’s no sign. Lantz Like I said, it makes all the sense in the world. Sampson Okay, yes. Lantz And there’s, there’s my statistical analysis. Sampson I’m all for suspending the rules so. Plunkett Any questions from Councilors? I would entertain a motion for this ordinance. Norris I’ll make a motion to approve on first reading Ordinance 2024-16. Plunkett We would still introduce on first reading. Page 34 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 Sampson Yes. Norris Okay. Plunkett Yes, we still introduce on first reading – Burk And then suspend the rules. Plunkett And then we’ll suspend the rules and vote again. So I’ve got a first to introduce on first reading from Councilor Norris. Burk Second. Plunkett Second from Vice President Burk. All those in favor signify by saying aye. All Aye. Plunkett All those opposed same sign. [No response] Motion passes 7 in favor, 0 opposed. I would make a motion to suspend the rules. Norris Second. Plunkett Second from Councilor Norris. All those in favor signify by saying aye. All Aye. Plunkett All those opposed same sign. [No response] Motion passes 7 in favor, 0 opposed. Norris I will make a motion to approve on final reading Ordinance 2024-16. Sampson Second. Plunkett Second from, first from Councilor Norris, second from Councilor Sampson. All those in favor signify by saying aye. All Aye. Plunkett All those opposed same sign. [No response] Motion passes 7 in favor, 0 opposed. Lantz Thank you. Page 35 of 36 Zionsville Town Council July 1, 2024 OTHER MATTERS Plunkett Thank you. Up next on the agenda is Other Matters. Are there any other matters from Councilors? ADJOURN Plunkett Having none, I would entertain a motion to adjourn. Burk So moved. Plunkett First from Vice President Burk. Sampson Second. Plunkett Second from Councilor Sampson. All those in favor signify by saying aye. All Aye. Plunkett All those opposed same sign. [No response] Motion passes 7 in favor, 0 opposed. The next regular Town Council meeting is scheduled for Monday, July 15, 2024 at 7:30 a.m. in the Zionsville Town Hall Council Chambers. Final notice will be posted in compliance with the Indiana Open Door Law. Everybody have a safe 4th. Thank you. Respectfully submitted, Amelia Anne Lacy, Municipal Relations Coordinator Town of Zionsville Page 36 of 36