Mayor & City Council

1 CITY OF COLLEGE PARK + + + + + CITY HALL + + + + + MAYOR AND COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING + + + + + TUESDAY OCTOBER 9, 2018 + + + + + The Mayor and Council met in the Council Chambers, 4500 Knox Road, College Park, Maryland, at 7:30 p.m., Patrick L. Wojahn, Mayor, presiding. PRESENT PATRICK L. WOJAHN, Mayor P.J. BRENNAN, Council Member ROBERT W. DAY, Council Member MONROE DENNIS, Mayor Pro Tem FAZLUL KABIR, Council Member KATE KENNEDY, Council Member DUSTYN KUJAWA, Council Member DENISE MITCHELL, Council Member JOHN RIGG, Council Member ALSO PRESENT SUELLEN M. FERGUSON, City Attorney TERRY SCHUM, City Staff MIRIAM BADER, City Staff KAREN TANG, Appellant NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  2 CONTENTS CPV 2018-06 Re: 9808 53rd Avenue Staff Presentation by Terry Schum ........ 3 Case Overview by Miriam Bader ............ 6 Testimony by Karen Tang ................. 13 Discussion .............................. 16 Adjourn ...................................... 52 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  3 1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 7:46 p.m. 3 MR. WOJAHN: And the first this evening 4 is CPV-2018-06 regarding 9808 53rd Avenue. 5 To start us off, we have our staff 6 presentation by Terry Schum. 7 MS. SCHUM: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, 8 members of the Council. 9 For the record, Terry Schum with the 10 Planning Department. And, I am going to make a 11 few brief introductory remarks and then turn it 12 over to Miriam Bader to provide you with an 13 orientation to the actual case. 14 So, I want to call your attention to 15 the fact that you have a copy of the entire record 16 of this case before you tonight. 17 So, that includes the original 18 application, the staff report, the verbatim 19 transcript that was made of the public hearing 20 before the Advisory Planning Commission and the 21 Commission's final resolution which is a 22 recommendation before you tonight in this case. NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  4 1 So, on the first page of your record 2 are the rules of procedure by which you will hold 3 this hearing tonight. So, it's always good to do 4 a little refresher of how this happens. 5 So, as you know, the oral argument 6 tonight is limited to the facts and information 7 that are contained in the record that I've just 8 referenced that was made before the hearing at the 9 Advisory Planning Commission. 10 The order of presentation tonight will 11 be first an orientation by staff. That'll be done 12 by Miriam Bader. 13 And then, oral argument first against 14 the recommendation of the Advisory Planning 15 Commission. 16 So, as you know, an appeal has been 17 filed in this case by the Applicant, Karen Tang, 18 who is present tonight to make oral argument against 19 the APC's recommendation. 20 The only other party of record in the 21 case was David Tang. So, that is the only other 22 person who would be allowed to speak on the record NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  5 1 tonight as part of this procedure. 2 Then, as listed, we have oral argument 3 in favor of the recommendation of the APC. We 4 typically don't do that, if there is an opportunity, 5 however, for the mayor and Council to ask questions 6 of staff and of the Applicant and anyone else 7 addressing you tonight in this procedure. 8 And then, if needed, there's rebuttal 9 by both parties. 10 Now, the main oral argument is limited 11 to 30 minutes on each side. The rebuttal portion 12 is limited to 10 minutes on each side of the 13 position. 14 And then, finally, at the conclusion 15 of the hearing, the mayor and Council will make 16 a decision in this case. 17 And the options available to you when 18 the hearing is concluded is to accept, deny or 19 modify the recommendation of the Advisory Planning 20 Commission or you could return this case to the 21 Commission to take further testimony or reconsider 22 its recommendation. So, this is in your hands NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  6 1 tonight. 2 Then, following your decision, if you 3 actually decide the case tonight, then the 4 decision will be prepared in writing for you and 5 then appear before you at a regular meeting, 6 probably on a consent agenda for your final action 7 once it's written up. 8 So, that's how this will happen. And, 9 if you have no questions about the process, then 10 I'll turn it over to Miriam Bader to run through 11 the specifics of the case. 12 MR. WOJAHN: Thank you, Mr. Schum. 13 Good evening, Ms. Bader. 14 MS. BADER: Good evening, Mayor and 15 Council. 16 The property as indicated here with the 17 red triangle, it's located in the Hollywood 18 Subdivision. It's east of Rhode Island Boulevard 19 and south of the Beltway. 20 The property and the immediate area is 21 zoned R-55 which you can see is indicated with the 22 yellow. That indicates the zoning district. NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  7 1 The Applicant's request is to retain 2 an existing asphalt driveway which is measuring 3 21 feet wide by 28 feet in length, that was paved 4 without a permit. 5 And, previously, the driveway 6 consisted of sparse gravel. 7 The variances being requested, there 8 are two variances, the first is needed because part 9 of the driveway encroaches in front of the house. 10 The second variance is needed because 11 the driveway will cause the homeowner to exceed 12 the maximum lot coverage. 13 This slide references the zoning 14 ordinance regulations concerning driveway 15 encroachment and the front yard and the lot 16 coverage. 17 I'm not going to read it, but we can 18 refer back to it if anyone has questions. 19 This shows you the site plan and the 20 area that's been paved is indicated in this 21 crosshatch. 22 The property is rectangular with the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  8 1 width of 50 feet and a length of 110 feet. The 2 total square footage is 5,500 square feet. 3 Side yards are narrow, one is eight feet 4 wide and the other is seven feet wide. 5 The house was built in 1950. 6 The property contains a one-story brick 7 house and a 480 square foot shed shown in the rear. 8 This is what the property looks like 9 today with the asphalt. And, you can see the 10 asphalt extends all the way to the inner sidewalk 11 to the northern property line. 12 The APC made the following findings of 13 fact. 14 One, that the city cited the property 15 for constructing a driveway without a permit. 16 The Applicant stated that the county 17 and contractor told her she didn't need a permit. 18 Parking is very limited in this 19 neighborhood. There is a fire hydrant located on 20 the north side of the property which further limits 21 on street parking. 22 Additional findings of fact include NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  9 1 that neither side yard setback is sufficient to 2 meet the recommended driveway width without 3 encroaching in the front yard. 4 Looking at the closest 20 properties, 5 many have single wide driveways and do not encroach 6 in front of the house. 7 If the driveway was reduced in width, 8 then it would reduce the encroachment needed. And, 9 also, if you reduced it to a 10-foot width, which 10 is a single wide standard width, that would 11 eliminate the need for a lot coverage driveway -- 12 lot coverage variance. 13 The APC made the following conclusions 14 of law that address the three zoning criteria that 15 must be met prior to granting a variance. 16 The first conclusion of law is that the 17 criteria is that the property must have an 18 exceptional or extraordinary condition. 19 In this case, the extraordinary 20 condition is because the house was constructed in 21 1950, which was prior to the driveway encroachment 22 amendment in the zoning ordinance which was in 2002. NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  10 1 So, that's the unique circumstance. 2 The second conclusion of law that needs 3 to be made in regards to the strict application 4 of the county zoning ordinance resulting in a 5 peculiar or unusual practical difficulty to or 6 exceptional or undue hardship upon the property 7 owner. 8 In this case, the difficulty is not 9 allowing a single wide driveway which is typical 10 in this neighborhood. 11 The third and final required conclusion 12 of law that has to do with impact that granting 13 the variance will have on the intent, the purpose 14 and the integrity of the county general plan and 15 the county master plan. 16 In this case, the APC determined that 17 it made sense to modify the requested variance by 18 reducing the width of the driveway in order to 19 lessen the negative impact the driveway would have 20 on the neighborhood. 21 Based on these conclusions of law, the 22 APC recommended granting a modification of the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  11 1 requested driveway width which entails reducing 2 the width of the driveway from 21 feet in width 3 to the 10 feet resulting in the encroachment being 4 reduced from 14 feet in width to 3 feet and negating 5 the need for a lot coverage variance. 6 This modification requires the 7 Applicant to remove part of the existing asphalted 8 driveway and make a corresponding modification to 9 the apron. 10 This concludes my presentation, my 11 orientation. But, this shows you what the 12 recommended driveway would look like. 13 MR. WOJAHN: Thank you, Ms. Bader. 14 I'll take questions for staff. 15 (NO RESPONSE) 16 MR. WOJAHN: Seeing none, there'll be 17 an opportunity to ask more questions later. So, 18 we'll move on to the argument in opposition to the 19 -- against the recommendation of the Advisory 20 Planning Commission. 21 And, is Ms. Tang here? Ms. Tang, would 22 you like to come to the podium and -- NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  12 1 MS. FERGUSON: Mayor? 2 MR. WOJAHN: Yes, Ms. Ferguson? 3 MS. FERGUSON: If I might, I think this 4 is probably the first argument that the Applicant 5 has been to or seen. And, it would probably be 6 a good idea to remind anyone who's testifying that 7 they have to stay within the confines of the record. 8 MR. WOJAHN: All right, thank you very 9 much. 10 Yes, so that means not referring to any 11 information that we don't have here before us right 12 now as part of the record. 13 So, I appreciate that and I hope you 14 understand that. 15 If anything does come up, I might have 16 to -- that's outside of the record, I might just 17 stop you to ask you to -- 18 MS. TANG: Sure, if I provide -- 19 MR. WOJAHN: -- not proceed with that. 20 MS. TANG: -- any additional 21 information, let me know and I will take it away. 22 Good evening, Mayor and Council. NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  13 1 So, what happened and this, 2 unfortunately, you found was that back in last year, 3 I got a citation from City of College Park 4 indicating that I need to fix the existing driveway. 5 When I purchased the house back in 2004, 6 it was a double parking driveway. And, through 7 time, the gravel eventually just disappeared. 8 So, by last year, there was very little 9 gravel left on the parking lot. 10 So, the City decided to ask me to 11 repave. And, honestly, like, when I look -- just 12 any Googled, you know, like refurnishing, 13 resurfacing, you know, some kind of appliances or 14 furniture or whatnot, it's, you know, it's 15 including changing materials. 16 So, when I decided to do this driveway, 17 I called the county and I spoke to the contractors. 18 Both of them, I mean, of course, I had spoke to 19 them over the phone, told me that the -- I don't 20 need a permit to do the resurfacing. 21 So then, I went on and proceeded with 22 the projected. On the very same day, I got another NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  14 1 citation from the City asking me to get a permit. 2 Of course, I received that citation 3 like a few days later and it's already too late. 4 So, this picture is what you guys see, 5 you know, of what is existing now. 6 And, you can also see the size of apron 7 that this is also laid by the City, it's not laid 8 by me. 9 That, you know, you probably can tell, 10 you know, the driveway was -- does big. Right? 11 I went on and measured the size of the 12 apron and it was, from the most narrow end, is 16 13 width -- 16 feet in width. Okay? 14 And, my driveway is on the width is 21 15 feet. 16 So, I feel that the APC has concluded 17 unfairly because they did not consider the 18 grandfather, they did not consider what is, you 19 know, would be fair for me as, you know, it was 20 -- when I purchased the lot, the property, you know, 21 I thought that, you know, you had the double sided 22 driveway. NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  15 1 So, it does not make sense for me to 2 reduce it by half as recommended. So, that's why 3 I'm here today to hope that -- and hope that, you 4 know, I can find some reasoning in keeping this 5 lot. 6 Or, perhaps, you know, even, just even 7 reduce by a little, you know, by the size of the 8 apron as indicated by the City. But, not by half 9 as proposed by APC. 10 That's my stand, the ground today. 11 MR. WOJAHN: All right, thank you, Ms. 12 Tang. 13 Are there any questions for Ms. Tang? 14 Mr. Brennan? 15 MR. BRENNAN: Thanks for coming out Ms. 16 Tang. 17 The original gravel driveway that was 18 there when you purchased the house in 2004, was 19 that gravel driveway -- did the gravel extend to 20 the sidewalk? 21 MS. TANG: Yes, at least when -- that's 22 when I first purchased, when I see it, that's what NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  16 1 I laid out. 2 But, as I indicated, through time, the 3 gravel just disappeared, like, you know, like it's 4 been -- last year is 2017, so it's been over 13 5 years without maintaining the driveway. 6 So, you know, the rocks is just 7 eventually just gone. And, we have like mud issue. 8 We have like, you know, the water issue because 9 the water has not been graded properly with all 10 the rocks are gone. So -- 11 MR. BRENNAN: So, when you purchased 12 the property, was there any landscaping? 13 MS. TANG: No, it was just -- 14 MR. BRENNAN: Can I finish my question? 15 MS. TANG: I'm sorry. 16 MR. BRENNAN: Was there any 17 landscaping between the driveway, that gravel 18 driveway and the sidewalk? I see there a post there 19 of some kind in the picture that we're looking at 20 right now. Was there maybe a shrub or any planting 21 beneath that post? 22 MS. TANG: You mean where the green NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  17 1 part of -- from that driveway from the stairs? 2 MR. BRENNAN: I'm looking at a metal 3 post that's to the right of the sidewalk. 4 MS. TANG: So, that was originally, 5 like, I asked the seller, that was originally like 6 a gate of some kind. 7 MR. BRENNAN: I'm not worried about 8 what it was originally. 9 MS. TANG: Okay. 10 MR. BRENNAN: When before -- when the 11 gravel driveway was there, was there any type of 12 landscaping, flowers -- 13 MS. TANG: No. 14 MR. BRENNAN: -- bushes, anything like 15 that between the driveway and the sidewalk? 16 MS. TANG: No, it was not. 17 MR. BRENNAN: And was there any grass? 18 MS. TANG: It was grass like weeds 19 growing through the rock. 20 MR. BRENNAN: Okay. And then, in 21 terms of was the -- did the gravel extend all the 22 way to the foundation of your home? NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  18 1 MS. TANG: Are you -- can you just 2 repeat that question? 3 MR. BRENNAN: Sure, did the gravel that 4 was existing when you bought the property in 2004, 5 did it go all the way to the foundation of your 6 home? 7 MS. TANG: You mean go in the -- 8 MR. BRENNAN: No, no, to like did it 9 -- here's your house, here's your driveway, did 10 the gravel go and meet the -- 11 MS. TANG: The wall? 12 MR. BRENNAN: -- wall? 13 MS. TANG: No, it did not, it was just 14 mud. 15 MR. BRENNAN: It was just mud? 16 MS. TANG: Right. 17 MR. BRENNAN: Okay. 18 MS. TANG: Because -- 19 MR. BRENNAN: So, if I'm looking at the 20 images in the packet and this image now, the asphalt 21 driveway goes all the way to that wall, correct? 22 MS. TANG: Yes. NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  19 1 MR. BRENNAN: And then, for the right 2 side of the property where the shrubbery is right 3 now, did the gravel go all the way to that line 4 there? 5 MS. TANG: It was close to it, like very 6 like I would say about one centimeter close. 7 MR. BRENNAN: Okay, we're talking -- 8 okay, great. Thank you. 9 MR. WOJAHN: Just -- so this may help 10 the Council to understand what the earlier 11 condition was like, there was a picture in our 12 packets on the record on page 21 of our record, 13 that is I believe an earlier rendition, a large 14 -- 15 MR. BRENNAN: Is that 2004? 16 MS. TANG: That was not 2004. 17 MR. BRENNAN: It wasn't clear that that 18 2004. 19 MR. WOJAHN: Do we know what year this 20 is? 21 MS. TANG: I don't know, but it's not 22 2004. NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  20 1 MR. WOJAHN: This could -- well, this 2 was taken from -- is this taken from Google Maps? 3 Can the staff answer that question, Ms. Bader? 4 MS. BADER: The Applicant submitted 5 that photo. So, this was taken before she paved 6 it, that's all I know. It's before she paved it. 7 Did you take it -- 8 MS. TANG: I just went to Google Maps, 9 I just wanted to show you that it used to be at 10 least, you know, like double sided, although the 11 gravel, you know. 12 I mean, I just wanted to show that there 13 was a parking lot and then there was at least like 14 two cars can park there. 15 And then, show you that the gravel was 16 putting -- 17 MS. BADER: Is this what it looked like 18 when you bought it? When you bought the property? 19 MS. TANG: There was gravel 20 everywhere, but not -- wait, which -- it was -- 21 this one is like -- this is definitely not the year. 22 This is not the year. NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  21 1 The year when I purchased it was full. 2 MS. BADER: Okay. 3 MR. WOJAHN: All right, additional 4 questions? 5 Oh, I'm sorry, Dr. Kabir was next. 6 MR. KABIR: Okay, thanks so kind. 7 In the beginning of your testimony, you 8 mentioned that you got a citation from the City 9 about -- 10 MS. TANG: Yes. 11 MR. KABIR: -- the parking, I'm sorry, 12 driveway? What is that citation about? 13 MS. TANG: It was -- so, every year, 14 I need to apply for a rental permit through City. 15 So, the City sent an inspector out to check whether 16 or not my house is in compliance to the City law. 17 And, they also -- on that year, 2017, 18 they also indicated I need to fix the -- I need 19 to resurface the driveway. 20 I mean, if they never mentioned it, I 21 would never do it, to be honest. 22 MR. KABIR: So, this citation was about NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  22 1 the driveway was not up to the code? 2 MS. TANG: They just say I need to fix 3 it. 4 MR. KABIR: Okay. 5 MS. TANG: Yes. 6 MR. KABIR: Fix it meaning? 7 MS. TANG: It's either I remove all the 8 gravel or I, you know, like fix the driveway. They 9 don't tell the specific at the time. 10 They did not tell me that, okay, if I 11 just put gravel down, then I would not have any 12 issue as of today. But, they did not mention any 13 of that or else I would have just put the gravel 14 down. 15 MR. KABIR: Ms. Schum or Ms. Bader, do 16 you have any information about that citation? 17 MR. WOJAHN: It's in the record. 18 MR. KABIR: Is it of the record? Am 19 I going off the record? 20 MS. BADER: No, it's -- 21 MR. WOJAHN: It is in the record. 22 MS. BADER: No, it's in the record. NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  23 1 Okay, what she's referring to is that when you rent 2 out your property, you need to get a rental permit 3 and then there's an inspection. 4 And, we do have a copy of the report 5 and it is in there and it says everything was okay. 6 It does not say that the driveway needs to be 7 redone. 8 What she was cited for was because she 9 paved it without a permit. 10 MR. KABIR: Okay, thank you. 11 MS. TANG: I have my agent here and he 12 was the one I spoke to the City of the person that 13 gave out the citation before. I mean, it was 14 verbally told and he's the agent. 15 MS. FERGUSON: Yes, if I might, this 16 person did not testify. 17 MS. TANG: He's here today. 18 MR. WOJAHN: You're right, thank you. 19 MS. TANG: David Tang. 20 MS. FERGUSON: The agent is a person 21 of record? 22 MS. TANG: David Tang. NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  24 1 MS. FERGUSON: He didn't testify? 2 Okay then -- 3 MS. SCHUM: (OFF MICROPHONE) 4 MR. WOJAHN: Ms. Schum, are you in the 5 mic? 6 MS. SCHUM: He did sign in as a person 7 of the record to sit at the table with Karen Tang, 8 but did not -- 9 MS. FERGUSON: Say anything? 10 MS. SCHUM: -- offer testimony. 11 MS. FERGUSON: Right, right. So, it 12 wouldn't be appropriate for this Applicant to be 13 citing something that wasn't said by her agent 14 because it wasn't said. 15 MR. WOJAHN: Thank you. 16 Just for the Council's information, the 17 citation or the, sorry, the report of the inspection 18 is on page 29 of the record. 19 There and then the stop work order 20 relating to the pavement of the driveway is on page 21 30. 22 Were you done, Dr. Kabir? NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  25 1 MR. KABIR: Yes, thank you. 2 MR. WOJAHN: Ms. Kennedy? 3 MS. KENNEDY: I'm not sure how relevant 4 this question that I'm going to ask it anyway. 5 This is about the driveway apron and I see that 6 it's changed size in these pictures. 7 It went for multiple years, I'm not sure 8 when these years are, but can you tell me, and I 9 remember you guys talking about this in the record, 10 but I can't remember specifically what was said, 11 when it became a single wide apron to a double wide 12 apron? 13 MS. TANG: Which page are you referring 14 to? 15 MS. KENNEDY: I'm looking at three 16 pages, one of them is 20 and one of them 49 and 17 this one is -- and one is 21. So, it's 21 and 20 18 look like a single wide apron, that's the part 19 that's between the sidewalk and the street. 20 And then, 49 is a double side -- double 21 wide apron. 22 MS. TANG: Did you say page 20? NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  26 1 MS. KENNEDY: Yes, 21 -- 2 MS. TANG: Twenty-one -- 3 MS. KENNEDY: -- 20 and 49, yes. 4 MS. TANG: Twenty-one, I have was a 5 side. 6 MS. KENNEDY: Well, that's not what 7 I've got, I'm sorry. 8 MS. TANG: Hold on, I'll look. 9 MS. KENNEDY: Twenty-one is the Google 10 Map, it's this one. 11 MS. TANG: Oh, wait, I have a different 12 page. Are you talking about this? 13 MS. KENNEDY: Yes. 14 MS. TANG: This page? Well, if you 15 look at -- it's really the side -- the angle, there's 16 really nothing changed. Because if you take a look 17 at this one versus the main page right here, this 18 green right here is really that green right there. 19 So, nothing has changed in terms of the 20 sizes. 21 MS. KENNEDY: No, it can't be. So, I'm 22 also looking at page 20, which is this one and page NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  27 1 49 which is this one. And, I just -- they have 2 to have changed. 3 MS. TANG: Nothing has changed. I did 4 not request any size change for the apron. 5 MS. KENNEDY: Yes. Does staff -- can 6 I ask staff for a comment on that? MR. 7 WOJAHN: To clarify. 8 MS. BADER: Yes, I did talk to the City 9 engineer and what he said was he repaved 53rd Avenue 10 and then he redid some of the aprons that needed 11 it, but he did not widen any aprons. 12 So, he said that was the size that was 13 there before. 14 MS. TANG: That was the original. 15 MS. BADER: So, it looks -- it's new 16 because he did put a new apron in there, but it's 17 the same size. He is very well aware of not 18 widening it. 19 MS. KENNEDY: So, is it currently a 20 single or a wide apron? 21 MS. BADER: Well, it's -- she measured 22 it at 16 feet. So, it's in between. NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  28 1 MS. KENNEDY: So, would he even -- if 2 he was to do a double, would he do 16 feet? 3 MS. BADER: No, double would be of 20. 4 MS. KENNEDY: So, it's in between? 5 MS. BADER: Yes. 6 MS. KENNEDY: So, that's not something 7 that the engineer would typically do? 8 MS. BADER: He would do whatever was 9 existing and not -- 10 MS. KENNEDY: Which would have been -- 11 MS. BADER: -- widen it. 12 MS. KENNEDY: -- 10 feet? Eight feet? 13 MS. BADER: No, it might have been the 14 16. I mean -- 15 MS. KENNEDY: Oh, it might have been 16 the 16? 17 MS. BADER: Yes. 18 MS. KENNEDY: Okay, thank you, thank 19 you. 20 MS. FERGUSON: To clarify, 10 feet at 21 the, I believe, at the edge of the sidewalk and 22 20 out at the curb is what a standard one, I'm sorry, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  29 1 14 at the curb is a standard one. 2 MR. WOJAHN: So, the 16-foot 3 measurement, was that the inside of the -- 4 MS. TANG: Inside. 5 MR. WOJAHN: The inside? 6 MS. TANG: Yes. 7 MS. FERGUSON: So, it's not a standard 8 measurement that the City would normally do one 9 way or the other. I think what he told is, the 10 engineer authorized replacement of what ever was 11 there without -- 12 MR. WOJAHN: Wider? 13 MS. FERGUSON: That's -- 14 MS. BADER: Oh, yes, okay. So, 15 actually, okay, it could be 10 feet and then 3 feet 16 and 3 three feet, so that would be 16 for the apron. 17 MS. FERGUSON: No, it's bigger than 18 that. It's bigger than that. 19 MS. KENNEDY: It's bigger now. 20 MS. BADER: Yes, well, I don't know 21 what this is. Our standard aprons have a set size. 22 MS. KENNEDY: Right. NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  30 1 MS. BADER: So, if -- and the double 2 wide aprons have a set size that are approved by 3 you. Generally speaking, a double wide apron to 4 be legal has to be approved by Council. 5 MS. KENNEDY: Right. 6 MS. BADER: So, generally, we don't 7 approve in between sizes, it's one or the other. 8 But -- 9 MS. KENNEDY: Then the standard would 10 be what at the sidewalk? 11 MS. BADER: The sidewalk? I thought 12 that was the width of the driveway which would be 13 the ten feet wide. 14 MS. KENNEDY: Ten feet? 15 MS. BADER: Yes. 16 MS. SCHUM: With the flare to 14 feet. 17 MS. TANG: Let me clarify. So, by the 18 end toward the street, that's 20, okay? But, 19 inside is 16 and my driveway is 21 in width. 20 MR. WOJAHN: Thank you, Ms. Kennedy. 21 MS. KENNEDY: Thank you. 22 MR. WOJAHN: Are there any additional NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  31 1 questions for Ms. Tang? 2 MS. TANG: There's no additional 3 questions. 4 MR. WOJAHN: Okay, I see no further 5 questions. 6 Dr. Kabir, do you have another one? 7 MR. KABIR: In the record on page 26 8 -- 9 MS. TANG: Did you say 26? 10 MR. KABIR: -- that was -- it looks like 11 a double driveway. No, I'm asking the staff, 12 actually. It's a different house, but my question 13 is, how and when they got the permit. Is that a 14 fair question? 15 MR. WOJAHN: I'm not sure that's -- 16 that the answer to that is part of the record, unless 17 am I mistaken? 18 MS. FERGUSON: I don't think there's 19 anything in the record about that particular place. 20 It's just in the record -- these photographs came 21 from the Applicant, so -- 22 MS. TANG: Those are next door. NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  32 1 MS. FERGUSON: Well, it depends, it's 2 the one on page 22 on this record. 3 MS. TANG: Oh. 4 MS. FERGUSON: But the curb cut doesn't 5 match the driveway. So, but it is in the record. 6 You can see what you see in the record. 7 MR. WOJAHN: All right, any further 8 questions for Ms. Tang? 9 (NO RESPONSE) 10 MR. WOJAHN: Okay, seeing none, now 11 we'll move on and I understand there is no argument 12 in favor of the recommendation of the Advisory 13 Planning Commission? 14 And there is no further party of record, 15 and I imagine since there's no argument in favor 16 of the recommendation, there's no need for our 17 rebuttal by the party in opposition. 18 And, we'll move on to discussion by the 19 Council on how to proceed. 20 And, take suggestions. We know what 21 the criteria are. 22 Ms. Ferguson, I believe you were going NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  33 1 to -- 2 MS. FERGUSON: I'm just looking, I'm 3 sorry. 4 MR. WOJAHN: We know what the three 5 criteria are and now it's our job to apply the facts 6 as we understand them to the criteria in terms of 7 deciding whether to grant the variance. 8 Ms. Kennedy, you have -- 9 MS. KENNEDY: I can go first since I 10 have both Ms. Mitchell and myself are APC alum, 11 if you will. 12 So we know -- first, Ms. Tang, thank 13 you for coming out and thank you for talking with 14 us tonight and for talking with the APC, we 15 appreciate that. 16 I am inclined tonight to agree with the 17 APC because I know firsthand how much deliberation 18 they go through to get to these conclusions. 19 I read through all of the transcripts. 20 I do not feel that the criteria were met, 21 personally. 22 This is the kind of comments, I should NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  34 1 be making now, right? Because I'm fairly new, so 2 thank you. 3 So, I tend to agree with them. And, 4 I'm, in general, I tend not to overturn the 5 decisions of the APC. 6 I do, though, however, wish we could 7 find a way to make it easier for you to comply with 8 it. So, I don't know what that would be. I'm 9 hoping that staff can figure out maybe a time line 10 or something that could make this a little bit more. 11 I mean, do you want me to come over 12 myself and help dig up the driveway? I've got 13 strong arms. 14 But, I'm not sure, beyond that, I don't 15 think it's right to overturn their decision. So, 16 I can't do that tonight. Sorry about that. 17 MR. WOJAHN: All right. 18 Further discussion? 19 Mr. Brennan? 20 MR. BRENNAN: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. 21 There appears to be some disagreement 22 I think in terms of the original nature of the apron. NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  35 1 I believe Dr. Kabir has pulled up an older picture 2 from Google Maps which appears to be much smaller 3 apron that -- 4 MR. WOJAHN: I think before we start 5 -- 6 MS. FERGUSON: This is -- 7 MR. WOJAHN: -- going to Google Maps, 8 I know what Ms. Ferguson is going to say, it is 9 outside of the record. That is not something that 10 we were -- 11 MR. BRENNAN: Well, it's clarify the 12 images that are within the record. 13 MS. FERGUSON: I know, but it's 14 additional and it may be -- 15 MR. BRENNAN: Right. 16 MS. FERGUSON: It may be something that 17 you think is needed. 18 MR. BRENNAN: Right. 19 MS. FERGUSON: And, if you do think 20 it's needed, then you can return it to the APC for 21 further review. 22 MR. BRENNAN: Right. So -- NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  36 1 MS. FERGUSON: If that would satisfy 2 these questions in your mind, that is what you 3 should do. 4 MR. BRENNAN: So, that's kind of the 5 direction I think I'm going in. Because, the 6 recommendation, as I am reading it, is to reduce 7 this existing asphalt pad to a six and a half foot 8 wide -- the encroachment would be six and a half 9 foot wide. 10 MS. FERGUSON: Right. But, the 11 driveway would still be -- it would be bigger than 12 that. The encroachment is in the front yard is 13 the six and a half feet. 14 MR. BRENNAN: Is the six and a half 15 foot, but it's encroaching into the front yard six 16 and a half feet. 17 MS. FERGUSON: Right. 18 MR. BRENNAN: And then -- so the full 19 -- the front of the house, right. So, the full 20 -- or the full width of the driveway is the 14 feet? 21 MS. FERGUSON: Can staff answer that? 22 The full width of the driveway would be what? NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  37 1 MS. BADER: Of the? 2 MS. FERGUSON: That the APC found? 3 MS. BADER: The APC wanted the driveway 4 to be 10 feet wide, which would be 6 and a half 5 feet in front of the house or six feed in front 6 of the house. 7 MR. BRENNAN: So, the full width would 8 be? 9 MS. FERGUSON: A standard width. 10 MR. BRENNAN: A standard width of ten 11 feet? 12 MS. BADER: A standard width for a 13 single wide, yes. For a single -- 14 MR. BRENNAN: Which is ten feet? 15 MS. BADER: Ten feet. 16 MR. BRENNAN: And, my understanding 17 today is that the apron that's been constructed 18 that's there right now which has been measured by 19 the Applicant is 16 feet, correct? 20 MS. BADER: Correct. 21 MR. BRENNAN: So, we are asking the 22 Applicant to create a driveway that is not going NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  38 1 to necessarily align with the apron that's been 2 constructed. 3 So, we have a 16-foot apron and a 4 10-foot driveway. So, it does seem to me like there 5 is consideration to at least match that width and 6 especially since there is discrepancy between what 7 the actual width was and is today, how it should 8 be applied. 9 So, my recommendation would be to send 10 it back to the APC to consider it -- that 11 consistency. 12 MS. FERGUSON: Well, you would send it 13 back to the APC if there's something that's not 14 in the record that you -- I think there needs to 15 be more information about. 16 Or, if you think the APC has not decided 17 something that it needs to decide, not which way 18 it goes but there's something that they left out. 19 If you intend -- if what your intention 20 is is to match up the driveway to the apron at the 21 sidewalk, that is something that you can do -- 22 MR. BRENNAN: Without -- NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  39 1 MS. FERGUSON: -- tonight, yes. 2 MR. BRENNAN: Okay. 3 MS. FERGUSON: And then, that 4 calculation would have to be made in terms of 5 writing it up to know exactly how wide that would 6 be because we don't know that right now. 7 But, that would be the only thing that 8 we don't know is exactly how wide that is. 9 MR. WOJAHN: Ms. Kujawa, do you have 10 a clarifying question? 11 MS. KUJAWA: How wide what is? Can you 12 just repeat? 13 MS. FERGUSON: How wide the apron is 14 with respect to the driveway. The apron actually 15 goes beyond the property limit, as you can see, 16 which is -- it goes beyond that fire plug over -- 17 and it crosses the property line over into someone 18 else's. So, I'm assuming you don't mean to do that. 19 So, you're staying with the property 20 line on the right. And then, on the left, you would 21 want to match what -- how it -- where it hits the 22 sidewalk. NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  40 1 MS. KUJAWA: So, to back up for a 2 second, I don't recall reading apron measurements 3 in the testimony besides hearing them tonight. 4 So, I don't think that that was on the 5 record. Can somebody point to me where that was? 6 Because I know there was a lot of discussion in 7 the testimony about it, but that nobody knew the 8 apron width -- 9 MS. FERGUSON: That might be true. 10 MS. KUJAWA: -- at the time. So, it 11 might be worth getting that answered and addressed 12 because it's not in the record. 13 MR. WOJAHN: So, one option is to 14 remand it back to the APC to determine the apron 15 width and what type of variance is actually 16 required. 17 I had Ms. Mitchell and then Ms. -- 18 MS. MITCHELL: No, I'm fine, Mr. Mayor. 19 MR. WOJAHN: Okay. 20 Mr. Day? 21 MR. DAY: So, what we're asking, 22 because, you know, a lot of this has been on the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  41 1 APC and I can tell you that the questions would 2 have been, how wide is the apron at the sidewalk? 3 And, would that be the basis for sending 4 it back to the APC to have that figured out? 5 MS. FERGUSON: Yes. 6 MR. DAY: And then, we can make a 7 judgment or they can make a judgment to reduce -- 8 well, I'm not going to tell them what to do, but 9 I would just say that, at that point, you would 10 have a clearer line of how wide the driveway would 11 need to be or could be. 12 MS. FERGUSON: I think they have not 13 decided that. I don't think there was a 14 measurement made that's exactly like that. So, 15 you could send it back for them to determine that. 16 MR. WOJAHN: Okay. 17 All right, so I'm hearing now consensus 18 forming about a way to go. 19 And, Ms. Kennedy? 20 MS. KENNEDY: I'm not really sure that 21 I am just because I'm not sure how the driveway 22 apron is all that. And, I started this NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  42 1 questioning, so I'm sorry. 2 But, I'm not sure exactly how it's 3 relevant to the three criteria. Can I walk through 4 them real quick just so -- because I need reminding. 5 The first criteria being that -- so, 6 there's three criteria that need to be met in order 7 for this to -- variance to be granted. 8 The first is the property has 9 exceptional narrowness, shallowness or shape. 10 And, no one disagreed with this. Everyone said, 11 yes, it has exception shape. So, that one was met. 12 One of three was met. 13 The strict -- so the second one was, 14 the strict application of the county zoning 15 ordinance would result in a peculiar and unusual 16 practical difficulties to or exceptional or undue 17 hardship upon the property owner. 18 So, this one, there was not really too 19 much consensus with the APC. They did talk a little 20 bit about how the driveway may have been double 21 when she, you know, as this grandfathered in concept 22 they talked a lot about. NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  43 1 But, that doesn't mean they talked a 2 lot about how the resurfacing doesn't mean it gets 3 to asphalt when it should be gravel. 4 So, there wasn't really too much 5 consensus that that one was met. There was some 6 disagreement, but that one was a little bit up in 7 the air. 8 The third one, and I tend to agree that 9 -- I tend to agree towards no but could be convinced 10 of yes on that one. 11 But, the third one is where I'm 12 definitely on the no side which is the variance 13 would not substantially impair the intent, purpose 14 or integrity of any applicable county general plan 15 or master county plan. 16 So, this is where the neighborhood 17 itself generally just only has single wide 18 driveways. And, I think the statistics that were 19 cited, there are 20 houses, there are 20 neighboring 20 houses. Only one had a double-wide, is that -- 21 I think that's correct. That's what we just said. 22 So, that one tends to be the one that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  44 1 the APC said was not -- did not meet the criteria. 2 MR. WOJAHN: Let me -- does staff have 3 clarity on that because I see Ms. Tang pointing 4 two fingers up. How many double wide driveways 5 are there? 6 I'm sorry, speak into the microphone 7 if you're going to speak, but I'm asking staff. 8 MS. FERGUSON: Our photos of these, I 9 know there's testimony from staff about this in 10 the staff report. And, Ms. Tang can answer if she 11 has photos that she put into the record or something 12 she put in the record that shows this. But, 13 otherwise, what's there is what staff testified 14 to. 15 MR. WOJAHN: Well, even so, if it's one 16 or two, I'm not sure that would make that much of 17 a difference. 18 MS. KENNEDY: And, Council Member 19 Brennan brings up a good point. 20 MR. BRENNAN: So, if I may -- 21 MR. WOJAHN: Council Member Brennan? 22 MR. BRENNAN: -- it seems to be that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  45 1 the county general plan or the county master plan 2 might need to be consulted with regards to whether 3 or not the design in terms of the apron and the 4 -- that's provided in the right-of-way by the City 5 should, from a design perspective, match the width 6 and create kind of a visual harmony there. 7 It seems like by having a double wide 8 driveway, you're essentially, from a function 9 standpoint, you're setting them up to drive on their 10 grass and their property and by allowing it to 11 match, it's also more visually pleasing as well. 12 MR. WOJAHN: I see Ms. Schum and Ms. 13 Ferguson are -- 14 MS. FERGUSON: I just wanted to mention 15 that, in response to the -- what's in the -- what's 16 in your record under Section 1 1.9 of the 17 determination by the APC, they do -- 18 MR. WOJAHN: Little page? 19 MS. FERGUSON: I'm sorry, 7, they do 20 reference the number of -- they made a finding, 21 in other words, they heard the testimony and this 22 is the finding. NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  46 1 And, it said that the Applicant's was 2 the only double wide that was close by. So, that's 3 the finding that they made. 4 MR. WOJAHN: And, I'm sorry, what? 5 MS. KENNEDY: Say that again? 6 MR. WOJAHN: What subpart was that? 7 MS. FERGUSON: One point nine. 8 MR. WOJAHN: Ms. Schum? 9 MS. SCHUM: Yes, perhaps this would be 10 helpful, because in speaking with the Applicant 11 just now, she would like to proffer, and she can 12 confirm this, that she would remove the portion 13 of the existing driveway between the sidewalk and 14 the apron at the public sidewalk, between her 15 private sidewalk and where the driveway curb cut 16 is. 17 So, she is proffering to remove that 18 as a solution to this. So, that would be a 19 compromise. So, that's not entirely consistent 20 with the APC's recommendation, but it is a movement 21 on the part of the Applicant towards a compromise. 22 MR. WOJAHN: So, could we consider NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  47 1 remanding this to the APC to determine this one 2 little factual issue of the -- can we just say, 3 we'll approve the variances as necessary to allow 4 basically what Ms. Tang's proffer -- 5 MS. FERGUSON: Yes. 6 MR. WOJAHN: -- is? 7 MS. FERGUSON: Yes. 8 MR. WOJAHN: Okay, all right. 9 And then, I know -- I think -- because 10 I remember in the record there was some discussion 11 about need, anyway, needing to create a division 12 between the side -- the pathway to her front door 13 and the driveway because of the encroachment 14 actually would otherwise include the sidewalk in 15 it as well. 16 So, I think that resolves that issue 17 as well and I appreciate the proffer by Ms. Tang. 18 I think that would be a path forward then. 19 MS. TANG: Yes. 20 MR. WOJAHN: Any other concerns? 21 Questions? 22 MS. KENNEDY: Can I make a motion? NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  48 1 MR. WOJAHN: All right, Ms. Kennedy? 2 MS. KENNEDY: I'd like to move to 3 approve a variance that matches the apron width. 4 So, I don't know what that exactly would be. Do 5 I need to have a number now or what? 6 MS. FERGUSON: No, we'll -- we will 7 proceed and assume that you are accepting the fact 8 as related in the record as determined by the APC 9 and write the decision to put into the -- I'm sorry 10 -- we'll write into the decision the formal words 11 of what you just said which is that the driveway 12 will be the width that is commensurate with the 13 -- where the sidewalk -- the apron meets the 14 driveway. 15 MR. WOJAHN: Right. 16 So, we have our motion, is staff clear 17 on that? We have it on the record. We have a 18 motion by Ms. Kennedy. 19 MR. KABIR: Second. 20 MR. WOJAHN: Second by Dr. Kabir. 21 Further discussion, Ms. Kennedy? 22 MS. KENNEDY: Just thank you for coming NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  49 1 to that compromise. I appreciate it. 2 MS. FERGUSON: Oh, one more item. 3 MR. WOJAHN: Yes, Ms. Ferguson? 4 MS. FERGUSON: There should be a time 5 frame during which the Applicant should have to 6 accomplish this. 7 MR. WOJAHN: Any recommendations in 8 terms of what that time frame might be? 9 MS. FERGUSON: In thinking about it, 10 since we're going into the wintertime, it would 11 probably be a good thing to allow the Applicant 12 to move -- to go over into the springtime so that 13 once the asphalt comes out, the yard can be 14 replanted with grass or whatever it is they want 15 to -- she wants to install. 16 MR. WOJAHN: Okay. So, by, do we need 17 to give a date certain say -- 18 MS. FERGUSON: You could say April 30. 19 MR. WOJAHN: April 30 next year, are 20 we agreeable to that? All right. I see your head 21 nodding. 22 We have a motion and second. Ms. NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  50 1 Kennedy, anything further? 2 MS. KENNEDY: Do I have to amend that 3 or is that assumed? Okay. 4 MR. WOJAHN: Any further discussion? 5 (NO RESPONSE) 6 MR. WOJAHN: All right, seeing none, 7 all in favor of the motion signify by saying aye. 8 (CHORUS OF AYES) 9 MR. WOJAHN: Opposed? 10 (NO RESPONSE) 11 MR. WOJAHN: Abstentions? 12 (NO RESPONSE) 13 MR. WOJAHN: Motion carries. 14 Thank you very much, Ms. Tang, 15 appreciate your coming up and going through the 16 process with us and please let us know if you have 17 -- please be in touch with staff if you have any 18 questions or additional issues that need to be 19 addressed. 20 And, we'll move on to -- 21 (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter 22 went off the record at 7:07 p.m.) NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  51 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com