Committee of the Whole

Office of the Clerk of Council City of Gahanna 200 South Hamilton Road Gahanna, Ohio 43230 Meeting Minutes Committee of the Whole Stephen A. Renner, Chair Beryl D. Anderson Karen J. Angelou Ryan P. Jolley Brian D. Larick David L. Samuel Brandon Wright Monday, September 10, 2012 7:00 PM Council Committee Rooms Present 7 - Stephen A. Renner, Brandon Wright, Beryl Anderson, Karen J. Angelou, Ryan P. Jolley, Brian D. Larick, and David L. Samuel Additional Attendees: Mayor Stinchcomb, Brandi Braun, Shane Ewald, Dottie Franey, Sue Wadley, Karl Wetherholt, Chief Murphy, Joann Bury, Tony Collins, Leah Evans, Donna Jernigan, Brian Hoyt; Press. PENDING LEGISLATION: ORD-0180-2012 TO ADOPT THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE ADVISORY BOARD FOR THE OFFICE & INDUSTRIAL INCENTIVE PROGRAM GRANTING APPROVAL FOR NIAGARA BOTTLING, LLC FOR A PERIOD OF FIVE YEARS; AND TO DECLARE AN EMERGENCY. Renner called the meeting for Monday, September 10, 2012, to order; first item on the agenda is ORD-0180-2012 which is the Office & Industrial Incentive for Niagara Bottling; this is a regular item carried over from the Council Agenda last week; any questions; there were none. Recommendation; 2nd Reading; Consent Agenda. ISSUES - From City Attorney: Noise Renner said next is an issue from the City Attorney; Council had asked for follow up due to questions; we have a new noise ordinance that is functional; Council did ask for some additional information so that we may possibly tweak it; asked Ewald if he would go through items Council asked about. Ewald said thank you for your input; Item 1, there is a current listing under Use Occupancy for residential and commercial decibel levels; when consolidating the information from Council, it was clear that changes were requested here by several City of Gahanna Page 1 Committee of the Whole Meeting Minutes September 10, 2012 members; one is the time adjustment would be moved down for Sunday through Thursday and then expanded on Friday and Saturday; next there is a request that the decibel level be adjusted downward by 5 dB and a removal of maximum peak; currently the maximum peak would be employed if you were taking a reading for a period of 2 minutes and something would spike it like a motorcycle; it is not used by all municipalities and there were several requests to remove it; I don't see a problem with that so I went ahead and pulled that out; that is item 1. Renner said we will do questions by item. Anderson said can you further flesh out why maximum peak is not there and explain the consolidation of what we gave you; did you take an average. Ewald said I did it by majority; if 4 members of Council approved a particular change I incorporated it. Anderson said so you are saying the majority of Council said to take out maximum peak. Ewald said yes. Anderson said ok; what is the rationale for taking it out, for my clarification. Ewald said if you are taking a reading and something would cause it to spike above a certain level; the reading would incorporate that over the 2 minutes of time; we automatically had a qualifier that if you went above a certain level, like would happen when a loud motorcycle goes by, it could technically violate that; we were worried that if we had that kind of spike we would have to classify that as an ambient sound and it would disqualify that reading; much easier to go over the 2 minute reading than it is to have a qualifier that automatically violates it. Anderson said so the 2 minute reading is what. Ewald said it is the average over 2 minutes; what we would have in place; the officer would be requested to go do a sound test and take a 2 minute reading; that reading would determine whether there is a violation or not. Anderson said another example of that is in the memo that Jernigan sent out on my behalf; in a conversation with Lt. Spence he mentioned that in one of the readings done people knew it was happening; so they were talking and spiked it so that reading had to be thrown out; so that supports your rationale. Ewald said we actually did a field test where a motorcycle drove by and spiked it; Wright was there; it is quite common to have that happen. Anderson said I agree with you. Jolley said my thought on removing the peak is to streamline this as much as possible, make it easier to implement and take the readings since we are not looking at multiple different criteria for the same situation; we are looking at the average sound level over a 2 minute period; that is the only reading we need to take; if there is a higher sound, that will be factored into the average already; separating it is redundant and more confusing than necessary. Ewald said so what is on the table here is 3 things; the time parameters; the dB levels; and the maximum peak removal. Renner said this is an informational meeting; we are not asking for a decision on this. Angelou asked Ewald if he agreed that the peak should be included with the average. Ewald said yes after reviewing it. Angelou said is there a length where it would be dead heat; if the peak were a longer period of time that would bring the average up. Ewald said I am looking at it from the standpoint that we have a talented police department; also there is a cost to have to take the reading over and over because we have issues pop up when you can actually include that in the 2 minute period; it will fall in line without actually having a violation; that is why I agree with it. Samuel said did you get quite a few recommendations from Council to change the time cut offs to an earlier time for Sunday through Thursday. Ewald said it was well above the majority that wanted to change that. Samuel said a lot of people have to go to work earlier and students go at a variety of times starting very early these days and perform better if they have had the required sleep. Anderson said for the record on the commercial time Friday and Saturday, I think that City of Gahanna Page 2 Committee of the Whole Meeting Minutes September 10, 2012 11:30 PM is too late; my request was for 10:00 PM; after hearing about this weekend with Coaches, our own clerk who lives not far away from Coaches said the music did not stop until 10:30 PM; she had to listen to it for at least 4 or 5 hours and it was disturbing; I know we have to find a common ground, but I think 11:30 PM is too late; if the majority has already voted on that, I would request a lower dB level; the police went out to this establishment several times and even at the low 60s range to an average of 54 was not over the current limit but was still disturbing to many people; I think we need to revisit the time and the average sound needs to be lower than 65 dB. Wright said are you saying on the weekend it should be lower. Anderson said yes because at 55 dB it was still too loud and people over by Coaches couldn't hear themselves think. Wright said at 55 or 65 dB. Anderson said 55. Jolley said my recollection on some of the emails was the business owner had said it was at 69 and that a resident using his own meter was getting a 68 or 69; the official police report said 63; so we are not talking 54. Anderson said I did not read that email; I was on the phone with Lt. Spence writing down what he said. Ewald said to Jolley, there was a later email that stated there were different settings being used on the devices used by the resident and the police so that would account for different readings. Jolley said I do thank Ewald for pulling this all together; we know individually what we each submitted; going forward I don't know what the process will be; there are 3 changes in item 1; so if we do decide to make changes to the ordinance we have on file, we have to put that in writing, propose it, and vote on it, I'm not sure how we want to go forward and look at the various discrepancies between what the different Council members would like to see on these various items; or are we just having a general discussion and revisiting this later; I am trying to figure out where we are going with this discussion tonight. Renner said this is an informational meeting; Council had requested information; Ewald is giving it to us; moving forward we should again think about these items and separate them; then at another committee meeting, we will set the agenda tighter and we can talk about the pros and cons of each one and move toward a consensus on what the direction should be. Jolley said so you do not want individual comments on each of these pieces tonight. Renner said sure if you have a comment; why not; but the whole process tonight is to learn more about what these are since Council asked for the information from the City Attorney. Jolley said ok. Samuel said why are the residential and commercial cut off points for the dB levels different. Ewald said it depends on the type of zoning; there is a higher expectation in the residential sector that you are going to have less noise; a lot of municipalities are broken down in this fashion. Samuel said how do the 11 other communities handle this when they use a standard of reasonableness; how does that hold up in court. Ewald said let's just say it does; most of the time the fines are paid personally; they don't go through the process; it is a difficult issue to enforce, most people are reasonable and would just rather pay the fine than get an attorney and pursue it through the court; they pay it and move on. Samuel said I have one other concern, when you have penalties and you raise the penalty level to a more severe misdemeanor and that goes on someone's record, doesn't that affect them later on if they go to court or apply for a job. Ewald said I actually requested the penalty be changed; currently a second offense within 12 months is a misdemeanor 4 and I believe that could show up in a background check because it is not a minor misdemeanor; if you give discretion to the magistrate and set the classification equivalent to a misdemeanor 1 then they can take into consideration multiple visits to the establishment; this penalty level is at misdemeanor 1 with wide latitude by the magistrate to make decisions; there were suggestions to increase this with step levels; this gives the court the discretion to make the determination immediately between M-1, M-2, M-3 or M-4. Renner said that is actually talked about under item 3; can we finish item 1; are there any other questions City of Gahanna Page 3 Committee of the Whole Meeting Minutes September 10, 2012 or comments on item 1. Anderson said at 10:26 the average high dB is 54. Jolley said that was indicated by Ewald to be because of the different settings. Ewald said Item 2, the current equipment for measuring sound, has 2 options, an A or C weighting; we currently use the A; I would like to stay with a single measurement of A weighting; it is typically used for an area that you can hear with your ear. Renner asked for comments; there were none. Renner said Item 3 is the penalty; do you want to elaborate on that. Ewald said the primary first time offense would be a minor misdemeanor; that doesn't change; I am requesting when we proceed with changes to the ordinance that we give wider latitude to the magistrate to up that penalty based on the circumstances for each case; so if you have an offender and it has been 11 months since his last case they can take that into consideration; the 10th offense in 4 months can be taken into consideration. Larick said I had asked Ewald to consider something along those lines; would like to see it structured so it has the potential of an escalating fine as opposed to a singular relatively low dollar amount that can be considered a part of doing business; Ewald suggested ways that would not escalate the offense but still provide a means of discretion to increase the impact of the fine; this made the most sense of several different things discussed. Anderson said you mean the way it is. Larick said the way Ewald put it together. Anderson said so the way it is written is the way you envision it. Larick said yes; I don't know the minutia of the law and what the impacts are; but each offense would be an escalating offense; this is the way of getting an impact without causing long term legal issues for the individual; still has a monetary impact but not a criminal impact. Angelou said it seems the complaints we have heard have been from 3 establishments; maybe a 4th; are there any other establishments where the police have been called about noise; there is one on Johnstown, Cherry Bottom and Mill Street; I am wondering if we are doing a lot of figuring specifically for an anomaly; they are in a particular place where the sound carries; there was one location where they turned the band around and there were no more complaints. Ewald said correct; it has been awhile. Angelou said this is a necessity I guess; it appears to me that maybe we need to bring people together for an understanding; it seems to be a sound situation for certain areas; 2 businesses said they turned their music down; I am wondering if going with a different approach might work as well; we could help the business know that if they turn it down just a little your patrons will get used to that; I am wondering if there is any place else in the City where we have that problem. Ewald said what I have seen tends to be along the major corridors and we have a commercial establishment in close proximity to residents; there are more significant reports of residential to residential; our Police Department went out to what we thought would be problem areas and personally provided them with a copy of the noise ordinance that is currently in effect; to my knowledge those establishments have had no violations; the one with violations has been made aware at this point. Wright said Angelou raises a good point; a little of that happened this weekend; I was on Carpenter Road speaking with Mr. Thomas and on Thursday, Mr. Vance and Mr. Thomas had a conversation where they established that the noise was too loud so Mr. Vance went back to his property and adjusted the noise; my goal is that is the conversation we need to have before we make radical changes; we should try to address noise issues that are isolated cases; some people say Peace Lutheran is making too much noise at their outdoor service; it has a snowball effect; the conversation needs to happen first before we make all these changes; could be there is pressure coming from certain people who feel very passionate about this issue; I City of Gahanna Page 4 Committee of the Whole Meeting Minutes September 10, 2012 agree that is an approach we need to look at before changing the ordinance. Angelou said that passion can build up over many months of being frustrated by the situation; no one is saying that it isn't legitimate; I was wondering if this direction along with the changes to be made could be a hands on approach; what does the Mayor think. Mayor said when this began with the Pub, that is exactly the approach we took; about 3 or 4 years ago we brought in the owners of the Pub and our managers and we sat around the conference table, we brought in Council persons and the City Attorney at that time; we talked about different solutions; it might have worked for awhile but then it went back; it was not a long term solution; we have met with every one of these establishments; Lt. Williams went out and talked to everyone of them after we passed the new ordinance explaining the concern; explaining our desires; yet we continue to have violations; we can do that; but we also have to have a good code that is defensible in court. Angelou said we have that now. Mayor said I do not disagree; but we have to agree what these values should be so we can continue to train and enforce them; ultimately those levels are your decision; I received Ewald's spreadsheet at noon today; I would like to take it back to my team and discuss these suggestions; we will come back to you if we have any thoughts administratively and discuss it with the police department because I understand this is to be an informational exchange. Angelou said my request is for discussion. Mayor said I am not against that; we can bring the owners in and talk about it; we have tried it and it worked for some for a little while; these change hands; we are talking about different establishments now than 3 years ago; not always the same ones in violation. Angelou said if there is something that could be put in to block the sound. Mayor said that was the direction we tried to go with the Pub; we had no legal authority to make them. Angelou said but they turned the band. Mayor said yes they did and that was a recommendation that we had made. Angelou said and we have had no complaints for 2 months; that to me says it is ok. Mayor said I don't know if Mr. Lefchik would agree with you to be happy with the Pub. Ewald said there has been no record of formal complaints; and there have been no citations. Renner said I understand the concern here; one of the things Angelou brought up was the issue are we spending a lot of time attenuating a law and now we do have a functional ordinance that does pass legal muster. Angelou said I think we need to go a whole lot lower and then potentially that would be it; but my point is there doesn't appear to be that many so that is why I believe common courtesies should be used. Renner said Council actually took action and asked for information on this; we will also talk about what an education campaign might be at some point; I would like to finish this discussion for tonight. Ewald said to continue with item 3, the daily violation; I talked to Jolley and Larick about it; it is used with zoning issues where they have 5 per day; the Police Department has no objection to removing the day language; I wanted to bring it to Council's attention so you could discuss whether or not you want to keep that; don't have to decide tonight. Renner said Item 4. Anderson said are we going to discuss that. Renner said it was an informational item. Larick said clearly the best solution in all cases is a dialogue with the individuals involved and to get it resolved outside of any legal action; better solution for any legal problem; that said my one comment would be in this process when we do make changes the end result is clear and concise and clean; we have made some steps toward that; with regard to the noise level; I have been to areas outside of Gatsby's, the Pub, and made some attempts for Coaches but have not heard them; the sound from these venues regardless of measurement and at varying times was uncomfortably loud; where the level should be would be an appropriate level, a comfortable level whatever it should be; so my hope is to get to that with the changes City of Gahanna Page 5 Committee of the Whole Meeting Minutes September 10, 2012 we make; with regard to the daily violation or multiple ones, two thoughts on that; one is an escalating fine structure; that becomes a deterrent; as much as I understand the need for police officers to be the enforcers of the rule, I believe our police department has far more impactful items to work on than call after call for noise, assuming a citation has been entered; my thoughts so far. Anderson said it is important to look at the balance on all sides; I know the police have other issues they are involved with; but it is important to think about the residents; I remember the testimony that was given at the public hearing where the people with various problems expressed concerns; I think this sound level is key; I think it needs to be lowered; I think that the time for the weekend doesn't need to be 11:30 PM; for offenses, multiple citations are worthy and need to be noted even if it is within 1 day; I agree police officers with their work load should have discretion, but what the residents are experiencing should not be minimized just because the police have other things to do; I am in favor of multiple citations on any day. Wright said this is good information and it is good that we are giving information and determining how we would like to address this issue; after speaking to a lot of people in the area, even though it is an isolated area, there are some residents who get hit by all 3 establishments; it is a burden for them; we might have to look at the dB ratings for Sunday through Thursday being a lot lower so people can get to sleep and get to work; there has to be a compromise; on the weekends that is what people do; they go to the bars; when you look at these establishments they are all packed; people are in there to listen to the music; we have to find that balance when we move forward on this; I did want to point out that some people are caught in the middle; when I was on Carpenter this weekend, I heard noise from Creekside; nothing blocks that noise. Anderson said it was a clear night so the sound travels easier. Renner said item 4. Ewald said there were several residents that had voiced concern that readings were not being taken as close to the property as possible; the request from Council members then was the readings should, not shall, be taken from the closest access point to the property line. Jolley said can you define what closest access point means. Ewald said that is the difficulty; we are going to have to leave that to the discretion of the police officer; that is why I put it as "should" not "shall". Jolley said is that a vehicle access point or a physical access point where a person can get to it. Ewald said my guess would be, and common sense would dictate, that it would be on foot with the meter as close as they can get to the property. Jolley said that was my interpretation; just wanted to clarify. Larick said I provided something similar to this; my wording was "accessible"; access implies drive to me; accessible implies they can go to where the complaint is, then to an adjacent property; that should be the closest accessible point; or a park next door; whatever the officer can most readily determine. Angelou said they could use the parking lot of the establishment. Larick said from a legal standpoint it needs to be off of their property but the closest point to where the noise is emanating from. Renner said should we say on the residential side of the accessible point. Ewald said it might be commercial property. Larick said you should be able to walk around the property and at no point should it exceed the level. Renner said I agree; but that is not what this says; they are not going around and taking multiple readings. Larick said understood; as opposed to doing something that complex; the version I put together is trying to get the reading taken as close as possible to the noise which would be the loudest point; the objective was to say that in straightforward language. Renner said that is why I do not think we are even close to figuring this out because I don't think that's exactly it. Mayor said I think this has to be left to the discretion of the police officers; we train officers to go to the loudest point; if that is the direction they get for enforcement from the Administration and this Council, I think we are getting into the weeds on some of this; I believe we can properly enforce this; Ewald has done a fine job of laying out City of Gahanna Page 6 Committee of the Whole Meeting Minutes September 10, 2012 the decision points; we are adjusting this just a few months after the last one; look at some conservative changes and continue to change it if it doesn't work; I think that was Angelou's point; let's make some moderate adjustments; there are a couple of things that have affected this over the years; one is the smoking ban; it has made a big impact the last few years on why bands are playing louder and more people are going outside; clearly why it is more of a problem now than 5 years ago; the weather is going to take care of this shortly; we will be dealing with it again next spring; important to make whatever changes or recognize the problem will take care of itself; then have our guidance in place by spring. Ewald said item 5 is the last item; there were some concerns about sponsored events by the schools or the City; I checked the code and unless it is a permitted function there is no exemption for football games or activities that occur on a community level; my suggestion would be to add exemptions for those types of activities; I looked at other municipalities and they have exemptions for that reason; I am sure football games are very loud and a lot of people can hear them on Friday night, but that does not mean it should be subject to the noise ordinance. Renner said there is a lot for us to think about; I suggest we keep this as an agenda item. Larick said I have a question for Ewald; do you have a suggestion as to how we move this forward; there is lots of dialogue about the subtlety of each item; expect it would be difficult to change all of these on one structure; would it make sense to pursue the individual items as agenda items or make the entire structure be one change; thoughts from anyone. Ewald said that gets into policy which is not my realm; if you are going to adopt a process, I would do it line by line. Mayor said what I would like to recommend, based on all the dialogue that has gone on and feedback provided, is that the City Attorney is getting out of his area; but I would like to take it back and discuss it with the professionals that have to enforce it, and come back with a suggestion; we would present a strawman; a revision of the ordinance for you to consider; we will look at it line by line then bring it forward for you to consider as we do with most legislation; then you can recommend any changes. Wright said if we look at it line by line, then we should pass it in one session so as not to create confusion to those who have to enforce it. Mayor said yes. Ewald said that would be the procedure; I would encourage you to wait for the Administration to come back with this; in the meantime we have a functional noise ordinance being put to the test and it is working; they are enforcing it, going out and testing; it may not be the results that some particular residents would like, but it is being enforced; and remember the police do have other crimes to address and can't always give noise a first priority. Jolley said and this applies to everything in the City; not just bars and outdoor bands; we can't neglect the other uses that might fall under this. Anderson said that is why we are suggesting exceptions. Jolley said we have exceptions for school and City functions; but any business could be affected. Anderson said we can broaden the exception category. Jolley said such as. Anderson said if there is something on your mind that fits within that category. Jolley said I was not talking about carving out exceptions; I was talking about making sure this ordinance is clear but broad enough to cover everything in the City. Mayor said I have an example for you; the last time we adjusted this it was because of complaints about when dumpsters were being emptied; they make a lot of noise but we had to have a reasonable solution; businesses want them emptied after hours; we have to pick happy mediums; we can't make it so strict that the normal course of business can't function; that is why I want to take a look at all of this and bring something back; you are right it is not just bands. Renner said I want to thank the City Attorney for responding to our request and providing this information. Mayor said we will have a draft for you in 2 weeks; I think it City of Gahanna Page 7 Committee of the Whole Meeting Minutes September 10, 2012 is important to get this hammered down and move on with training and enforcement; it can be discussed forever; we might change it more times but we will have a satisfactory result that is balanced. Wright said which departments would take the lead to draft this. Mayor said my office with input from the police department. Recommendation: Back to Committee in 2 Weeks. ISSUES - From Director of Public Service: Oklahoma Cell Tower Lease Extension Franey said in late July, I brought forward a request for a 15 year lease extension on the cell tower at Oklahoma; at that time, Council asked that I contact Global Signal and see if they would be open to relocating or camouflaging the tower; they discussed it internally and came back and said, as long as it didn't affect their customers, they would be willing to do this; however we would have to fund either one of those options; relocating would mean they would build another tower and switch services; that cost would be in the million dollar range; that was all they could do; so we are back tonight asking for legislation to extend this for 15 years if that is your pleasure. Wright said did they give a cost for possible camouflage. Franey said that depends on what you want done; they were familiar with some that were about $80,000. Samuel said 4 or 5 years ago we went through this with a proposed cell tower at Academy Park; we had an expert come in and he showed us all available alternatives; some of them were really neat; that is something you could check out in the Council office; I am sure they have those documents and you could look at that; suggest you see it. Wright said did they give prices. Samuel said yes. Mayor said a 200 foot pine tree still looks out of place. Jolley said I emailed a question on whether or not locking into the extension on the lease might interfere with plans we have for the site in the future such as moving or expanding. Franey replied not at this time; if we are continuing to make revenue off of it, I see no reason not to do it. Renner asked for any other comments; there were none. Recommendation: 1st Reading, no need to come back; 2nd Reading, Consent Agenda. ISSUES - From Director of Finance: Resolution Accepting Amounts and Rates for Real Estate Taxes Bury said the Department of Finance is requesting a Resolution accepting the tax rates and certifying them to the County Auditor; this is an annual Resolution that must be passed by October 1 under the ORC. Jolley said for clarification, this is a percentage of the General Fund revenue; this is approximately 6% of people's real estate taxes that goes to the City. Bury said it is not even 3% that comes to the City at the effective rate per taxpayer. City of Gahanna Page 8 Committee of the Whole Meeting Minutes September 10, 2012 Jolley said but it makes up about 6% of our revenue. Mayor said you are thinking of our revenue. Samuel said the majority of the money goes to schools and the township. Angelou said and all the amenities like MRDD and the library. Recommendation: Resolution; Consent Agenda. ISSUES - From Council: Resolution - Cal & Barbara Berkey Samuel said as I mentioned at last committee, I am proposing we honor and commend Cal and Barbara Berkey for 40 years of service to the Gahanna community at their gas station which is now gone; there is a proposed copy in your packet; if you see any mistakes or would like to add any suggestions let us know; Jernigan is trying to get in touch with their son to find out when they can be here for the presentation; they live in Whitehall but they have served this community; their son still owns a station on Main Street there. Recommendation: Resolution, Consent, Agenda. Resolution - Karen Eylon Renner said next is the Resolution for Eylon. Angelou said I was on the committee that hired her; she has been a phenomenal Director of the Gahanna Convention and Visitors Bureau; now that she is leaving, this is something that absolutely should be done for her. Jolley said it is a surprise; she will be here Monday to present a report to Council and this will be a surprise. Recommendation: Resolution, Council Agenda. ISSUES - From the Mayor: 5 Year Capital Needs Assessment Mayor provided an introduction to the Five-Year Capital Needs Assessment. Braun provided a power point presentation; a copy is available in the Council office along with the procedural notebook. Questions and Comments; Larick said from the 2012 financial process that we have gone through, this is another step; the clarity will be helpful as we get into appropriations. Mayor said I appreciate Council leaderships' suggestions all through the year to get us to this point, and Braun's research as we refine this; these documents are clear; the public will find this interesting; Council will find it helpful as there is a one sheet explanation of each project we are doing; it behooves all of us to get to know these projects; what their costs are and what their explanations are; they are meant to be summaries; if you want more information there is more detail available; more than happy to provide that to you. City of Gahanna Page 9 Committee of the Whole Meeting Minutes September 10, 2012 Anderson said thank you to Braun and the Administration; they have presented a vision which is key and a strategy for moving forward which makes the discussion easier; helps us move through the thought process as we come together to see how much we have and what to do with it; defines what our goals and objectives are. Jolley said in terms of clarity and vision and to see the long term perspective, this is a home run; I look forward to getting into the details; these are common sense categories; the priorities are laid out the way you would a family or business budget; I appreciate the clarity and look forward to getting into this. Wright said I am happy with the presentation and think it provides a good footprint of where we need go forward; have a couple of questions; we all have areas of focus; for Council procedure, if we send a question to the Administration, should we copy each other so we know what has been asked. Mayor said I would certainly recommend that; keep the discussions open and copy everybody on the questions and answers if they are written; it makes it easier for us because we sometimes end up answering the same question multiple times. Angelou said there are a lot of projects; was any consideration given to having an appendix at the end of this that lists all projects; it would have nothing to do with the 5 year but would be a list of all of them; sometimes you lose track of what they all might be; don't know if it is possible; would say that in the future these are some others. Mayor said we can work on that; at our staff gathering we listed projects, some on another board as they didn't fit anywhere; into a parking lot. Braun said most of the items are addressed; the question is to what level; all departments did a middle of the road approach; once we have input from the survey and Parks Master Plan, then that will help us identify where on the spectrum some of the projects will be for recommending; for example the pool; do we do nothing with the pool; just replace the front pool; or completely rebuild a new pool; what is in there is to replace the front pool; the community may tell us they want something else; we can come up with a wish list of things that are not covered at all in here so we don't lose sight of them. Samuel asked how is the citizen survey going. Braun said it is going well; people I talked to said it lasted 15 minutes; the phone calls have started and the mailings have gone out and responses are rolling in; once done we will present you with the results. Wright said moving into 2013 and beyond, we should start thinking for Council and the Administration, that the plans we get should be digital so we are not consuming as much paper. Angelou said if we just had an iPad where we could bring this up. Jernigan said Hilliard got a grant to get iPads for their Council members. Mayor said who gave them the money. Jernigan said she didn't know. Mayor said can you find out. Jernigan said sure. Angelou said when I talked to Kneeland about that, he said there was a problem with the platform; our legislation doesn't show up. Wright said you can see now most all of us use an iPhone. Meeting Adjourned. Della Brandenberger, Reporting City of Gahanna Page 10