Council Study Session

MINUTES OF THE GILBERT TOWN COUNCIL, IN SPECIAL MEETING FOR A STUDY SESSION, OF TUESDAY, OCTOBER 8, 2024, AT 5:00 PM, MUNICIPAL BUILDING I, COUNCIL CHAMBERS, 50 E. CIVIC CENTER DRIVE, GILBERT, ARIZONA COUNCIL PRESENT: Mayor Brigette Peterson, Vice Mayor Scott Anderson, Councilmembers Chuck Bongiovanni, Bobbi Buchli, Yung Koprowski (attended virtually), Kathy Tilque (attended virtually), and Jim Torgeson COUNCIL ABSENT: None STAFF PRESENT: Town Manager Patrick Banger, Town Attorney Chris Payne, Deputy Clerk Judy Martinez, Firefighter Shea Kearney, Police Officer Dakotah Richter, Chief People Officer Nathan Williams, Office of Management and Budget Director Kelly Pfost, Fire Chief Rob Duggan, and Police Chief Michael Soelberg CALL TO ORDER OF SPECIAL MEETING Mayor Peterson called the meeting to order at 5:01 p.m. ROLL CALL Deputy Clerk Martinez confirmed a quorum was present. AGENDA ITEM 1. Presentation and discussion on the meet and confer process with Gilbert Police and Fire Labor Associations. Town Manager Banger explained that the meeting was a follow-up from a prior Study Session on the same topic; the purpose was to provide answers to questions asked from that earlier meeting. International Association of Fire Fighters Gilbert Chapter President and Gilbert Firefighter Kearney said the items to be addressed were post-retirement benefits, Town-wide benefits, accomplishments without a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU), and the dangers unique to first responders. He said there was an assumption that there was going to be “an ask” in a meet and confer process for post-retirement coverage and he did not think that was an appropriate assumption. He added the idea of post-retirement benefits was wonderful, but there needed to be an interest-based discussion on what that could look like. He discussed other options that he said would have little cost to the Town, such as health care trust matching. He discussed the following four town-wide benefits that were mentioned at the prior meeting: paid parental leave, babies at work, catastrophic injury leave, and enhanced military leave. He said two of them had zero benefit for the 56 hour employee. He noted not all employees could use some of those benefits and provided examples. He said those considerations validated the point that meet and confer was important, as their needs were unique. He discussed accomplishments without an MOU, and said the reality was that many of the accomplishments had nothing to do with an MOU. He said there was a fear that the meet and confer process would derail the goals of the directors, but said if anything, it freed their time and took weight off of them. He discussed unique dangers to first responders and said the data and comments provided at the prior meeting were a bit demeaning to their profession and the data was misleading. He provided examples of risks faced daily, then discussed first responder suicides, injuries, and cancer. He highlighted sworn top-out pay, enhanced cancer screening, increased vacation maximum, and 48/96 scheduling as accomplishments. He said the various steps and principles used for that accomplishment were the same type that would come with a meet and confer process. Firefighter Kearney discussed other organizations with MOUs and said it provided an effective process. He discussed sustainability and said there needed to be a process in place that would outlast employee turnover. He said in the past two years they had four business partners, adding with a meet and confer process, they had to start over new every time. He discussed economic stability, employee turnover, good faith interest-based decisions, and increased morale and support administrative staff. He said the goal was not litigation but to open transparency and accountability for both parties, then summarized the benefits of meet and confer. Councilmember Torgeson asked what they were not getting now that they had before. He requested more information on the issues that motivated the topic. Firefighter Kearney said it was not disingenuous to say that the MOU allowed an opportunity to save money. He discussed how the current process was prohibitive for staff, directors, and the People Team, then discussed how benefits and pensions differed. He said they did not have the same benefits as Team Gilbert, and there was no requirement on action from staff. He said they may have a seat at the table currently, but it did not mean there was action; he said an MOU added accountability. Vice Mayor Anderson said the report Firefighter Kearney submitted pointed out issues such as court pay, standby and callout compensation, shift differentials, and weekend duties; he asked if those issues were not discussed with management. Firefighter Kearney said he would defer that to Gilbert Police Leadership Association (GPLA) President and Gilbert Police Richter. Mayor Peterson discussed how not all benefits were used by all staff and provided examples. She asked what were some specific, substantial issues with Police and Fire that they had not been able to achieve that the Town could look at. Firefighter Kearney listed the issues of opportunities with vacation buy- back, payroll deduction limitations and allowances, promotional processes, transparency with annual surveys, and random benefits such as working overtime for vacation hours in lieu of pay, healthcare trust matching, and raise in “class and comp” compensation. Councilmember Bongiovanni confirmed that if there was not an MOU staff could meet directly with the Council to discuss issues and that Gilbert did not currently have an MOU. He asked if there were any known employees who had been admonished for speaking directly to Councilmembers. Firefighter Kearney replied there had been an issue with himself and a Councilmember, adding he was bringing items to Council out of care and concern for employees. Councilmember Bongiovanni stated that with an MOU it would not be allowed, but that it was allowed currently. Firefighter Kearney noted with an MOU process it would forbid labor association or employee groups to bring items to the Council to try to sway them for the approval of an MOU. Councilmember Torgeson said Firefighter Kearney participated as he should have without an MOU, but was admonished as if there was an MOU. Firefighter Kearney said he would consider that correct. Chief People Officer Williams thanked everyone for their work on the subject. He discussed programs that Gilbert offered including Babies at Work, and said Police and Fire staff had participated, but he recognized that many employees jobs and schedules may make it difficult to participate in some of the programs. He said he felt that the chiefs and directors made every effort to accommodate and allow all employees to participate. He discussed the military leave program and said Gilbert’s expanded, supplemental program was far above what was required by the federal government. He expressed respect of the difficulties and dangers of the jobs of first responders. Chief People Officer Williams provided demographics including age groups and male/female distribution of residents compared to the Gilbert employee population. He also provided numbers on Police Academy completions and department growth. Office of Management and Budget Director Prost provided figures for the Town departments in the General Fund, stating Fire was at about 21%, Police was at about 37%, and the remaining 42% was for all other departments. She said the bulk of the investment of the Town’s tax dollars went to Police and Fire. She provided a breakdown of new budget requests since 2018 with ongoing and one-time expenses. Police Chief Soelberg discussed investments in public safety, including the opening and importance of the Public Safety Training Facility, as well as the dispatch center and primary emergency operations center for a combined investment of over $90 million. He discussed investing in first responders, showing about $24 million in investments geared toward the safety of the Fire and Police sworn staff. Fire Chief Duggan discussed application trends going back to 2018, noting a reduction for both Police and Fire. He said there was concern across the valley over the cause of the reduction, including the halting of a training program with community colleges. He said the numbers had started to increase in Gilbert. He discussed being able to recruit from a larger region as a result from the 48/96 schedule change, which he said was supported by the labor group and its study. He referenced a report from an Arizona Board of Regents research project that was done regarding retention and recruitment, noting every agency was experiencing a reduction in numbers of applicants. He said retention overall was good and there was not a lot of lateral movement in the Fire Department, adding they were committed to promoting from within. He noted historical data from 2020 on new hires and separations within both departments, then provided figures regarding compensation of step rates from various positions for Police and Fire. Vice Mayor Anderson asked about compensation and if Gilbert was falling behind with comparative cities. Chief People Officer Williams said they benchmarked the Police and Fire positions yearly, rotating between the two, and every year they were brought up to market average. Williams said there were cities who were making adjustments in how they benchmarked, with a 5% over any maximum range, including Phoenix who saw high vacancies and was not able to manage calls for service. Williams said Gilbert was maintaining that midpoint of the market, as instructed by the Council. Town Manager Banger stated with midpoint of the market, they took the market and what the midpoint was, then went 50% down and 50% up for the starting pay and ending pay; he said some cities took 60% of the market and went from there. He said the Town had that discussion in the past and could certainly discuss again at a financial retreat. He added it did not mean that Gilbert employees were paid half as much or substantially below their peers he added in many cases, the top out and entry pay was close to some of the highest compensation scales in the region. Councilmember Bongiovanni asked for the estimated overtime expenditure for Police and Fire last year. Director Pfost stated she did not have that information at the moment. Councilmember Bongiovanni asked how many sworn Police and Fire positions were open currently. Police Chief Soelberg answered 20 vacancies for Police sworn officers. Fire Chief Duggan answered about 12 vacancies for Fire sworn positions. Councilmember Bongiovanni asked if those positions were filled, would overtime go up or down. Police Chief Soelberg said long term it would go down, but then discussed scenarios with new staff, training, and other factors that initially increased overtime. Councilmember Bongiovanni asked about data showing when staff left if they went where they were paid more. Police Chief Soelberg discussed exit surveys and said there had been three employees who had left to work for other agencies recently, but he said it was rare, and typically it was for officers moving out of state. Councilmember Bongiovanni asked about speculative benefits if Police and Fire were able to raise the pay. Police Chief Soelberg discussed factors and said that he had heard from other agencies that increase in starting pay did not increase the number of applicants. Councilmember Bongiovanni asked if cities and towns with an MOU retained more employees. Police Chief Soelberg said he was not aware of such data or of instances where not having an MOU was a factor. Councilmember Bongiovanni asked if an MOU protected an officer who was under investigation more, less, or the same. Police Chief Soelberg noted the Arizona Police Officer Bill of Rights, which he said dictated the rules to follow for internal investigations; he noted an MOU could potentially add additional rules if both sides agreed, but the Town followed state law. Mayor Peterson noted that overtime was also situational, such as in the past year with teen violence. Police Chief Soelberg agreed and discussed varying factors. Councilmember Torgeson said he requested information from the Town Manager’s Office regarding overtime for Police and Fire and said it was a big number. He commented on the need for sensitivity when speaking of numbers, stating that an employee was only at the 50% momentarily, but once anyone else moved up, others were moving down on the scale and would bounce off the 50% when anyone else made a change. He questioned Police and Fire growth since 2010, but said it did not seem to be in proportion with growth. Chief People Officer Williams stated the numbers set today were based on officer per resident, and that was how they were budgeted. Town Manager Banger noted the complexity of those projections. Police Chief Soelberg discussed the varying factors and provided an example of comparable cities by size. Councilmember Torgeson discussed how Gilbert was still a family community, adding he was not criticizing the number of officers per resident but was trying to bring up the perspective of the population and crime in the area. Mayor Peterson noted that a high percentage of Gilbert officers lived in Gilbert, and a high percentage of surrounding cities’ officers also lived in Gilbert. Fire Chief Duggan discussed how the Fire Department’s key driver was call numbers, then discussed response times and resources. Councilmember Tilque said she appreciated the conversation and hoped to be able to move forward. She thanked Firefighter Kearney and Officer Richter. Vice Mayor Anderson asked if the issues discussed earlier that were identified by Firefighter Kearney were not being discussed with management currently. Officer Richter said the meetings were happening with management and they were grateful for that, but the frustration was with not having follow-through. Officer Richter said they were different, for example no one else needed court standby pay because of a subpoena that came in. Richter said when they brought up issues or suggestions, they were told it would be looked into but there was rarely follow-through. Councilmember Buchli said her questions were answered and she appreciated the presentation and information. Town Manager Banger said if there were any additional questions or clarification needed, the Council should reach out to the Police and Fire Chiefs directly. He said he appreciated working with Firefighter Kearney, Officer Richter, and staff. He said when it came to pay, there was a Council-adopted pay policy, but they were happy to discuss potential changes as appropriate. He spoke in appreciation of the Police and Fire Department and said he looked forward to future dialogue. Mayor Peterson expressed her hope that the discussions involving Firefighter Kearney and Police Officer Richter were not taken negatively. She emphasized that the staff considers all of the Town of Gilbert's employees as a whole. She mentioned that she had watched meetings from previous years regarding the topic to better understand the situation. She praised the hard work of the Firefighters and Police Officers, stating that they contribute to making Gilbert a great community. She also highlighted the evident strong relationship between Public Safety, Police, and Fire based on the discussions that took place that evening. She said that she agreed with Councilmember Torgeson when he said that it was important how Gilbert tells the story. She mentioned that the Gilbert staff and the Council see all the benefits provided by the town, but she was not sure if the people directly involved in the work appreciated those benefits in the same way that the staff and the Council did. Councilmember Torgeson expressed that something did not feel right to him, but he was not sure what it was. He mentioned that although he had listened to everyone speak, he felt that not everyone was on the same page. He felt that something crucial was missing from the ongoing discussion, which made him uneasy. He likened it to listening to two employees argue about two different situations. He expressed concern about the way Firefighter Kearney was admonished for following the current procedure instead of the MOU (Memorandum of Understanding) way. He pointed out that if the Town had an MOU in place, Firefighter Kearney wouldn't have been admonished, but he also wouldn't have approached the Council. He highlighted the conflicting expectations and behavior within the Town and Administration. He emphasized that it's problematic to be instructed to do one thing but then be unable to do it. He stressed that while this did not necessarily mean replacing the MOU, it indicated that the situation was not handled properly and needed immediate resolution given the way the Town of Gilbert operates. He underlined the urgency and stressed that concerns from many people were being disregarded, and he did not want the Council to make decisions based on a dysfunctional system. He mentioned feeling uncomfortable making decisions until he had more information and expressed his frustration that something regarding the situation was not coming true. Councilmember Buchli said she agreed with Councilmember Torgeson and said that more discussion needed to be had. Councilmember Bongiovanni expressed appreciation for the efforts of everyone involved, including the Town Staff, Town Management, Police, and Fire. He acknowledged the productivity of recent Study Sessions but emphasized that there was still more work to be done. He said he agreed with Councilmembers Torgeson and Buchli and expressed concern that there seemed to be an "us versus them" dynamic, which troubled him. He emphasized the need for further discussions and suggested that the incoming Council would be responsible for addressing the situation. He proposed waiting until the new Council was seated in January 2025 to resume the conversation. Councilmember Tilque expressed concerns about bypassing the chain of command and going directly to the Council, and she requested research to clarify the intent. She opposed the need for an MOU for the Town of Gilbert's First Responders and suggested exploring other options without detriment to the organization or other employees. She emphasized the importance of recording discussion outcomes to eliminate future misunderstandings and suggested addressing specific outstanding issues with labor representatives. She also raised concerns about outside unions influencing negotiations and proposed including overall discussions at the Council retreat. Vice Mayor Anderson concurred with Councilmember Tilque about issues with outcomes and misunderstandings. He stated that it needed to be rectified but was uncertain whether an MOU would solve it. Councilmember Koprowski expressed her appreciation for everyone's input during the Study Session. She agreed with Councilmember Tilque about concerns regarding pay and benefits, suggesting that these matters should be addressed at the companywide/organization-wide level. She also mentioned the need to investigate these issues and supported the idea of determining what could and could not be addressed within a specific timeframe. Additionally, she noted the loss of personnel policies related to sworn personnel, which may need to be reviewed and included in the Town's policies. Councilmember Torgeson asked which policies and procedures had been removed and what was missing from the current policies compared to the previous ones when the MOU was removed and asked if anyone knew what they were. Town Manager Banger stated that he would obtain the answers for Councilmember Torgeson. He mentioned that the only issue that came to mind was vacation buyback. He requested clarification from Fire Chief Duggan and Police Chief Soelberg. Police Chief Soelberg stated that he was uncertain about what had been removed, but several rules in the policy had been retained from the MOU and were still in the current policy, which they continued to adhere to. He mentioned that these rules were not related to benefits or personnel/administrative guidelines, but those could be included if the Town decided to do so. He talked about some of the items that were carried over to the new policy. Fire Chief Duggan stated that Town Manager Banger was right when he mentioned that an important provision was accidentally omitted from the MOU due to oversight. Chief Duggan expressed his support for the vacation buyback and suggested that it could serve as a starting point for a broader discussion. Councilmember Torgeson asked if things were actually stripped over the years or if it was just something that was said but not actually valid. Police Chief Soelberg mentioned that officers were allowed a 20-minute grace period for showing up to briefing due to donning and doffing. He also discussed an admin hour for sworn officers, which allowed them to work out at the facility for one hour at the beginning or end of their shift. He stated that Police Officer Richter would verify whether this was a change in the MOU or a change implemented by him when he became Chief in 2018. Chief People Officer Williams mentioned that a 5% pay increase for injury assignments in the fire department was accidentally left out. Once the error was realized, the Town corrected it and resumed the process. Councilmember Torgeson asked if anything had been taken out of any substance. Fire Chief Duggan said that he was correct to his knowledge none. He said there were no benefits that were stripped away from the original MOU process. Mayor Peterson asked what the Council would like to do to which they all decided to wait until they had more information and until the new Council was seated in January 2025. Officer Richter listed the following items he said were left out of the MOU when it became personnel rules: the lead officer program, alternative schedules, sick leave incentive, ability to donate sick leave to affected employees, and IA process and discipline advisory board. He noted these were items that fell off, not new things that were being asked for, noting it was what they had identified at that point but there could be more items. Town Attorney Payne reminded the Council of the allowable reasons and limitations to meet in Executive Session, per statute. He said much of what the Council was considering could not be done in Executive Session. The Council discussed whether they wanted to get more information soon or after the new Councilmembers were sworn in. They discussed the timeline of upcoming meetings for 2024, with an Executive Session first and then a Study Session. The consensus of the Council was to discuss the topic again in 2025. Councilmember Buchli asked about the issue of a staff member being admonished and if that needed to be addressed sooner. Town Manager Banger discussed when the MOU was sunset and the labor management agreement and process, noting the Council was welcome to speak to employees without any admonishment. Police Chief Soelberg said he was not aware of any admonishments in the Police Department, then discussed the ask from the labor group to address issues with the Chiefs first and meeting routinely to address issues. Fire Chief Duggan said he was not aware of an admonishment issue and discussed meetings with labor leaders for two years almost weekly and relationships. Mayor Peterson said that during individual Councilmembers’ meetings with Town Manager Banger, they could discuss any issues that had come up. Then there could be an Executive Session, as well as a potential Study Session if needed, and they could decide the course of action moving forward. Councilmember Buchli asked about getting information from those meetings. Mayor Peterson suggested that the Chiefs’ report to Town Manager Banger could be discussed in the individual meetings with him. ADJOURN Mayor Peterson adjourned the meeting at 7:00 p.m. ATTEST: ___________________________ ___________________________________ Brigette Peterson, Mayor Chaveli Herrera, Town Clerk CERTIFICATION I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and correct copy of the minutes of the Study Session of the Town Council of the Town of Gilbert held on the 8th day of October, 2024. I further certify that the meeting was duly called and held and that a quorum was present. Dated this __________ day of ______________, 2024. ___________________________________ Chaveli Herrera, Town Clerk Pfost