Parks Commission

Commissioners Present: Emily Boedecker, Bryan Pfeiffer, Kip Roberts, Lyn Munno Staff: Geoff Beyer Alec Ellsworth keeping minutes Action items highlighted ­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­ 7:00 meeting opened. 7:07: Lyn motions to approve modified agenda. Bryan seconds. All in favor. 7:09: Bryan motions to approve September and October minutes, Lyn seconds. All in favor. 7:10: Bryan approves to approve minutes of special budget meeting from November. Lyn seconds, all in favor. new parks commission email is parks­commisssion@montpelier­vt.org ­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­ 7:14: Proposal for Disc Golf from. Anders Shenholm (39 Northfield St.) Anders presented a map to the parks commission with some disc golf holes overlaid onto the map of hubbard park. Presented the plan as a preliminary idea to be explored further. 7:26: Disc golf topic open for public comment Donna Bates (city council, district 1) – expressed concern about safety of the trails. She has received comments from constituents regarding similar concerns. Collin O’Neil (lives in Calais, owns property in Montpelier) ­ Regards safety as a top priority. He has worked with 6 disc golf courses in parks around the state on safety. Helped start the course at Wrighstville and manages the Wrightsville Beach Recreation District. He likes the concept of a disc golf course walkable from Montpelier. Interested in exploring options with Anders. Commissioners discussed safety concerns, thanked Anders for the work he put into the proposal. Conclusion: Anders will connect with Geoff and Collin to explore further options. ­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­ 7:32: Discussion opened about conflicts of interest on the parks commission regarding considering mountain biking in Hubbard Park. Emily states that she is currently employed as the ED of Local Motion. She is not paid for any activities in Montpelier. She does not believe there is any direct conflict of interest regarding her position on the commission and her employment. . Kip stated that he was the co­president of MAMBA since last fall. Kip resigned from that co­presidency in early November because he “felt that he would be able to best serve by resigning from MAMBA.” He stated that he is also the general manager of Onion River Sports. Kip feels that he has “fairly and objectively spoken about this issue in the past and will continue to do so in the future.” Marilyn Mode (4 Summer St.): Asked if the opinion of the city manager will be posted online. The email from Bill Fraser regarding conflict of interest was read aloud. Emails from Bill Fraser and John Hollar were also read aloud. 7:45: Conflict of interest discussion opened to public comment Todd Bailey (7 Walker Terrace). This is an ethic policy, not a conflict of interest policy.Todd raised a question as to whether kip could represent MAMBA and the commission. He questions what has significantly changed about this situation following Kip's resignation. He feels that Kip's mind is made up. Donna Bates: Gave 3 examples of city council situations where city councillors recused themselves from discussion. Steve Bolduc (middlesex). Spoke in support of Kip's sound decision making. Anthony Mennona (28 Colonial Drive). Questions if it’s premature to discuss Kip's conflict of interest. Thanks the parks commission for their work. Collin: Doesn't believe Kip's position on mountain biking was formed by MAMBA. He still has a “pre­existing passion for mountain biking.” Marilyn: Stated that Kip was an architect of the proposal that the commission is looking at. She thinks that MAMBA would want to be above all suspicion regarding their proposal. Dan Voisin (2802 Elm St.) States that he is the drafter of the proposal. Kip has reviewed those as part of his board involvement. When the commission reviewed the original proposal the idea was to come up with a list of alternatives to be considered. The proposal from MAMBA was one proposal to consider. States that MAMBA would not be in favor of opening up all trails in Hubbard to mountain bikes. Christsonthy Drellos (19 Liberty St.) To the people that want to use the trails as a multi­use system the process does not seem rushed. It was first introduced 18 months ago and no action or deliberation has been taken until now. Matt Gilbertson (24 1st Ave.) Member of the MAMBA board and works at Onion River sports. If MAMBA went to Kip as a member of the commission and asked for his opinion on a situation as a mountain biker, as a member of the parks commission would there still be the same conflict of interest? Geoff: does believe that Kip has the public in mind. Lyn: Believes that Kip if were still on the MAMBA board it would put him in difficult position. “Now that he's not on the board I do not think that is an issue.” Bryan: I want to hear from more experts on this. Wants more information before voting on any conflict of interest decision. Emily: there is not clarity on what constitutes a conflict, or at what point in the process a vote should be taken, so the commission is not going to vote on the conflict of interest tonight. The issue will be on the agenda from December. Todd: still concerned about moving forward without a decision on conflict of interest. Emily recommends that the commission moves forward on discussing the process, even though there are further discussion and points of ambiguity. She wants to make sure that the commission as a body continues to function despite these questions that have not yet been resolved. ­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­ 8:40: Discussion of the process for considering mountain biking in Hubbard Park opened: Summary of current situation from Emily: The commission has decided to consider mountain biking in Hubbard Park. The commission wants to create a public forum where a proposal for Mountain Biking can be considered. They are looking for input on the process during tonights meeting.. Further background from Emily, Bryan and Kip. MAMBA brought forth a proposal last February. The parks commission did not consider the proposal in hopes of doing a broader visioning process. When that visioning process did not come through, the commission decided to consider the idea of mountain biking in the park in isolation of a broader vision, but not to specifically consider the February proposal. Lyn: States a goal of soliciting a range of options at the public meetings in January. Thinks it would be helpful to have a proposal to look at, but wants to consider all options. Bryan: Also in support of a new proposal. Wants to publicize the process widely. Wants to have a “simple airing of opinions,” perhaps in January. Then hoping to get people together to discuss the issue. This potentially is a huge change for Hubbard park and it warrants careful consideration. Kip: Would like to see a study of current use in Hubbard park to provide data that would inform the process. Commissioners agreed that formal data­gathering would ideally be part of the process, but lacking funding, it may not be possible. Geoff: Wants to make sure that the wording reflects the commissions desire to represent the public good. The wording should represent the range of options that are possible. Lyn: Thinks its important to have a skilled facilitator as part of the process. Public comment opened for process input: Collin: Are you going to consider one proposal or solicit multiple proposal and consider multiple proposals?” “Are there other parks in the world that would be valuable to draw on their experiences? You probably could learn from other experiences. Dan : I am a big proponent of having a public forum for discussion. I understand that there are some real concerns. It does nobody in the mountain bike community if at the end of the day there is a mountain biking trail in Hubbard park where there are 100 complaints a day. Anthony Echoing Collin's statement. Hubbard Park is a very special place in Montpelier. There are other cities that have parks in their downtowns. Biking and rollerblading has been discussed previously and getting that input as far as where it works and where it doesn't work would be invaluable. Lauren Bailey (7 walker Terrace) This is a really big decision and I think it needs multiple conversations with the public.” “I appreciate what Kip is saying that we really need to understand what is happening in the park before we can make a change in the park. Tristan Von Duntz (362 Taylor Farm Rd., Plainfield): I believe that this commission should be an open minded thoughtful process. There is a lot of misinformation. There is a stigma against mountain bikes that I see here that really worries me. I hope that all of your experiences would be an open minded, thoughtful conversation. I encourage you guys to listen to the public and also listen to experts. I like the world multi­use, I like people co­existing. Marilyn: You were also talking about knowledge that you needed to have. I understand that possibly MAMBA is working with National Life to have new trails on 35 acres. I'd like to know about that, I'd like to know what the other alternative s to Hubbard Park are, that way you could make an informed decision. Danis Regal (385 Capital Rd.):It seems to me that without a visioning process you can combine that with a decision that has been offered by MAMBA...The proposal needs to be discussed once, twice, and then the question is how the commission as elected representative of the community decides...I would also urge you not to rush this...you have to engage the whole community in this. Spunqi Young (1876 North St., East Montpelier): Brought both kids to the mountain biking series in the park, thanks the commission for allowing that. Part of why that was so wonderful was there was education given to young children...learning the trail etiquette, shared use of the trails...I think the education is a very important aspect of the whole process. I'd like to see that continue. Todd: The point that Kip made about data is an important one. You should consider doing a survey. You can get a lot of data through a SurveyMonkey survey and I think you should consider using that. Todd also commented that there are already many excellent biking trails within a short drive from Montpelier. Matt: My suggestion would be to just consider how mountain biking fits in the park. To me this is about biking in Hubbard Park. It doesn't matter what's going on elsewhere. Nolan Langweil (14 Hubbard Park Drive): I think that there should be some parameters set around the public meeting, whether its a proposal that people can read and respond to or a series of questions that the commission puts together that people can respond specifically to...if we set the parameters it gets rid of all the stuff that people already agree on. Collin: There is mountain biking all over the place, but not that kids can get to. Hopefully its not going to be some extreme mountain bike playground, but rather an entry to mountain biking that kids can get to without driving. Kip: Notes that it would be interesting to consider the process for previous proposals for mountain biking in Hubbard Park and the process by which the North Branch bike trail was planned and approved.. Lyn: It is helpful to have a proposal to help people start thinking about the issue. It would also be helpful to have questions from the parks commission that go along with the proposal. Regarding the Survey: Emily expressed concern about a survey, especially regarding how it will be received and how long it will take to develop. Bryan says he doesn't think a survey is going to give an accurate portrayal of how people feel about this. Lyn agrees and would prefer to take a different approach. Proposal from Emily: We say to MAMBA that the commission would like a proposal by December 15th that would be posted on the website for 1 month. There would be a public meeting schedule for the end of January. Between December and January the commission would come up with discussion questions for consideration and organize a facilitator for the meeting. The conclusion of the January meeting would be some clear ideas for next steps. Lyn: Thinks we should make the public meeting separate from the Parks Commission meeting Danis: Doesn't it present a problem to have the parks commission vote on the proposal just before you take on new parks commissioners...it raises perhaps some suggestions about process...it might be a more appropriate way to deal with the issue to have a full commission. Kip – Thinks there should be some formal cataloging of public and private land only where formal public land use agreements are in place. Kip noted that there are many tenuous, “handshake” land use agreements currently in place that could be jeopardized by a public surveying effort. Kip voiced his opinion that this discussion should focus on how we’re using our public park land. Lyn: brings up the point that part of the discussion was having an area that is accessible to kids. A discussion ensued about how far to cast the net of cataloging available trail uses. Dan: offers to inventory the trails on the U­32 and Montpelier High School districts Process Summary: December 15th MAMBA Proposal due. Commission meet on the 16th, with someone from the Justice center to help craft discussion questions. After December, the next regular Parks meeting will be held on January 20th, followed by public meeting. The commission asks MAMBA to come back with a proposal and a trails inventory of the Montpelier and U­32 school districts by the next Parks Commission meeting (Dec. 16th). Lyn will reach out to potential facilitators Proposed date for the public meeting is January 22nd. Emily will look for a large room, with the 29th as a backup date. ­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­ 9:29: Budget discussion opens Geoff has a 5 minute presentation to city council tomorrow night. Emily will go to city council tomorrow night to represent the commission's position on the budget, specifically to say that the commission does not support cutting money from the americorps/summer staff because it could risk permanently losing the position. ­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­ 9:45: Incident Reports: There have been 3 incident reports filed about illegal mountain biking in the park. The commission has received them and made note of them. Overall park signage and enforcement will be picked up at the December meeting. ­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­ 9:50: Whitewater park. The people organizing this are interested in finding an “umbrella organization” such as the parks commission to sponsor the proposal. The commission asked Geoff to invite a representative of the group to come to the next meeting for a presentation about the project and the commission's potential involvement. 10:03: Bryan motions to adjourn, Lyn seconds, all in favor.