Police, Judicial, Legal Committee

TOWN OF MOUNT PLEASANT, SOUTH CAROLINA POLICE, JUDICIAL & LEGAL COMMITTEE Monday, June 5, 2017 Municipal Complex, Building A, Public Meeting Room 1 100 Ann Edwards Lane Mount Pleasant, SC 29464 Minutes Present: Mayor Linda Page, Chair, Mark Smith, Elton Carrier, Bob Brimmer Staff: Eric DeMoura, Chief Ritchie, LeVica Kirvin Also: David Pagliarini, Corporation Counsel Mayor Page called the meeting to order at 10:24am 1. Approval of Minutes from the May 1, 2017 meeting Mayor Page asked that the minutes from May 1, 2017 meeting be approved. Mr. Smith made the motion for approval; seconded by Mr. Brimmer. All in favor. 2. Public Comments There were no public comments. 3. Police matters a. Employee years of service recognition Chief Ritchie recognized Sergeant Matt Stafford for 10 years of service. He stated Sergeant Stafford came to the Town from the Greensboro Police Department with two years of experience. Chief Ritchie stated he has worked in Patrol as well as a Field Training Officer. He explained  Police, Judicial and Legal Committee June 5, 2017 Page 2 of 22 when Sergeant Stafford made the rank of Corporal his Sergeant was deployed for almost one year. Corporal Stafford stepped into the leadership role and lead as a Sergeant. Chief Ritchie stated one of the key things Sergeant Stafford is currently responsible for is leading the critical incident team. He added he has been very successful in training and leading men and women of that team. Chief Ritchie stated Sergeant Stafford has had to deal with some very intense situations which in some instances could have turned deadly. Chief Ritchie stated Sergeant Stafford was able to handle these situations calmly and was able to get these individuals the help they needed. He stated he appreciates the work Sergeant Stafford has done over the past 10 years. b. Discussion of policing plan regarding safety on Shem Creek Chief Ritchie wanted to give the Mayor and Committee an overview of what the Police Department has been doing and will continue to do regarding safety on Shem Creek. He explained Sr. Sergeant Hethington leads the Harbor Patrol Unit. Chief Ritchie stated there is a schedule in place for patrolling the waterways until the end of August 2017. He explained it is an extensive schedule that includes heavy presence on the weekend. Chief Ritchie stated they have two boat operators, one who was prior United States Coast Guard and the other is still in the Reserves. He added they are both very experienced on the water. Chief Ritchie stated several officers are already trained with regards to Boating Under the Influence (BUI). He added with BUI’s the process is a little different as there is a sit down field sobriety that has to occur because the issue of sea legs comes into effect. Chief Ritchie explained that the Police Department will host a class for BUI certification which they have extended to other agencies to participate in as well. Chief Ritchie stated when it comes to boating collisions the Mount Pleasant Police is in assist mode for those cases because collisions have to be investigated by the Coast Guard and South Carolina Department of Natural Resources (DNR). Chief Ritchie explained Sr. Sergeant Hethington and his team will be meeting with the different kayak and  Police, Judicial and Legal Committee June 5, 2017 Page 3 of 22 paddle board companies to talk about safety and remind them the same rules that apply to boating apply to kayakers and paddle boarders. Chief Ritchie stated this has been done in the past but is a good time with summer kicking off to remind these companies that they have a responsibility to be safe. Chief Ritchie stated they will be conducting boat safety checks looking for floatation devices and making sure all the proper equipment is on board. He stated they will be vigilant of BUI’s and negligent operation with the emphasis on safety. He added they will be watching over the boat landings, the board walks as well as the parks. Chief Ritchie stated these areas will be patrolled heavily and often by the bike patrol and the park officer who is responsible for Waterfront Park and the Shem Creek area in addition to the other patrol teams. Chief Ritchie stated they are part of the Metro Marine Unit in Charleston County. He explained they are connected under Seahawk with North Charleston, Charleston City, Charleston County, Coast Guard and DNR and all fall under one umbrella in the metro unit. He added that means they have county wide jurisdiction. Chief Ritchie explained that during normal operation they will stay in the Mount Pleasant waters and focus on the residents there. But added if there is a call for an emergency they can respond up the Edisto River if necessary to support that mission. Chief Ritchie stated they are also involved with cruise ship escorts. He added they work special events such as the swimming event that was held this past week. He stated our boat is also involved with several joint state operations which happen on a regular basis, namely Operation Hammerhead working primarily with North Carolina. Chief Ritchie stated this is an opportunity to communicate with other harbor patrol units from other states. He added if there was ever a major emergency on the water they know the choke points, know the waterways and they can communicate with these other areas to stop a threat coming to our ports or stop any threat on the waterway. Chief Ritchie stated the men and women on our boats are working hand in hand with other agencies. Chief Ritchie stated their goal is to first educate the public to make certain people are aware of what they are supposed to do on the water.  Police, Judicial and Legal Committee June 5, 2017 Page 4 of 22 Secondly, give warnings to boaters and offer floatation devices or other equipment that boaters can borrow if they do not have what is required. And only if necessary the Police Department will cite the boaters as a last resort. Chief Ritchie stated they are ready to handle our waterways and asked the Committee if they had any questions. Mayor Page stated the information the Chief provided is very important. She explained a lot of individuals move to the Charleston area to be on the water. Mayor Page stated they would be remiss as elected officials not to continue to have conversations about making the waterways as safe as possible. She stated DNR has a video demonstrating safety flotations, and added they will be doing boater checks. She added the Town needs to do all they can to get the word out to make time on the water more enjoyable for everyone. Mr. Brimmer thanked the Chief for all the information he provided. He asked if a BUI charge refers to motorized boats only. Chief Ritchie deferred to Sr. Sergeant Hethington. Sr. Sergeant Hethington confirmed it is for motorized boats. Chief Ritchie added if someone was on a non- motorized apparatus they could be cited for public drunk. Mr. Brimmer stated his concern is someone could put themselves in danger even though they are not in a motorized boat. Mr. Brimmer asked if the additional patrol on the water and surrounding areas will affect staffing and other services the Police Department provides. Chief Ritchie explained that Sr. Sergeant Hethington has been in charge of the boat now for over 20 years and they have identified boat operators. He stated there is enough staffing during these peak times and make certain there is staffing on the roadways first then cover the boating area. He added there have not been any issues whatsoever. Mr. Carrier thanked the Chief for all the information. Mr. Carrier explained he has already seen the patrol boat going up and down the creek with more frequency. He asked if the Police Department controls the number of boats that are tied up side by side outside of the  Police, Judicial and Legal Committee June 5, 2017 Page 5 of 22 restaurants on Shem Creek or if that is the responsibility of DNR. Mr. Carrier stated the congestion in the creek is terrible right now. Sr. Sergeant Hethington explained that there is not a rafting law. He added sometimes the restaurants put a limit on those boats and if it impedes the channel there becomes an issue. Mr. Carrier stated it does not occur every day but Saturday is a big day. Sr. Sergeant Hethington stated the deck hands do a really good job rotating the vessels and the restaurants are trying. Mayor Page stated it would be a good idea when speaking with the paddle board and kayak companies, in particular those renting to individuals who have never been on the water, to explain to these individual who has the right of way and what their responsibility is when a motorized boat is coming their way. Sr. Sergeant Hethington explained a motorized boat is to stay in the channel and the paddle boarders need to stay to the side. He explained their biggest fear is that there is commercial traffic and a person from out of the area has no idea about tides or vessels. Sr. Sergeant Hethington stated these boarders come alongside to watch the shrimp boats spin around but what they do not realize is the Captains may not see what is going on and their fear is that one of these paddle boarders could get trapped. Mayor Page stated she has that same fear since these vessels do not cut those boats off or have reverse. Mr. Smith stated they often get emails when things go wrong but wanted to take a moment and give a personal accolade to the Chief and his staff. He explained unfortunately he had the opportunity to work with three of Mount Pleasant families who experienced a fatality and walked alongside the families over a couple of day period through that process. He stated he wanted everyone to hear that every single one of those families commented on how they were treated professionally at the scene and throughout every follow up incident by the Police Department. He stated it is reassuring to hear the level of  Police, Judicial and Legal Committee June 5, 2017 Page 6 of 22 professionalism, the level of genuine care and concern that the staff and officers have when dealing with those very sensitive matters regardless if that person made a bad decision and a bad choice or not. Mr. Smith stated everyone is treated with dignity and respect both on duty and off duty. He explained a lot of Rivertowne residents saw that behavior over the weekend when they witnessed Lieutenant Justin Hembree who was off duty come to the rescue of someone who got overheated at the neighborhood pool. He also stated the Fire Department also responded and were on the scene within seconds. He commended the leadership of the Police Department for their level and respect on and off duty. Mayor Page stated she would like the Police Department to put something on social media regarding their presence on Shem Creek to explain that they are there to help everyone have an enjoyable day on the water. Mayor Page praised Chief Ritchie for taking part in the apprehension of a suspect of a recent armed robbery. Chief Ritchie stated it was a team effort by the men and women who were present at the meeting. Mr. Kevin Kanane, 3032 River Vista Way of Mount Pleasant, stated it was great to see so much support of the Police Department. He asked what the jurisdiction was for the Wando River Marina. Sr. Sergeant Hethington explained that the Mount Pleasant Police Department has jurisdiction of the waterway up through Dunes West mid channel but they do not have jurisdiction at the Wando River Marina waterway. Mr. Gary Santos, 1690 Greystone Blvd. of Mount Pleasant, stated that DNR has an excellent program set up at the landings where they check boats going into the water to make certain they have all the equipment needed for a day on the water. He stated their presence sends a very strong message. Mr. Santos stated it is a great program and added he would like to see the Town provide this service at Remley’s Point as well as some of the other landings. Chief Ritchie stated that could be accomplished.  Police, Judicial and Legal Committee June 5, 2017 Page 7 of 22 Mr. Santos stated he is on the Coast Guard Port Security Committee. He explained some grants became available on Friday. The grants, if available to the town, could be used to obtain license readers for the boats so when they pass a boat it automatically reads the license and if it comes up as stolen they can handle the situation. He explained it is similar to the readers located on the bridge for vehicles plates. Mayor Page stated an issue with DNR and part of the reason she asked for this item to be placed on the agenda to begin with due to a conversation with Mr. McBride that there are only four DNR officers and their jurisdiction extends from Georgetown to the Charleston Harbor. She stated that for this reason unfortunately this summer they will not see them at the boat landings doing safety checks. Chief Ritchie added this is something his department could certainly do. Mayor Page stated they will find out about the cost of the readers. Mr. Brimmer asked if the Coast Guard and DNR are tied to consolidated dispatch. Chief Ritchie explained that they are connected and individuals can call consolidated dispatch. He stated there is a harbor channel that all the boats work off of and communicate with one another. He stated that Berkeley County is not tied to the Charleston County consolidated dispatch. He explained a call would go to Berkeley County dispatch and they would contact their units. Mr. Brimmer asked if someone is on the water and does not know what county they are in how they go about receiving emergency services. Chief explained that they would call 9-1-1 and dispatch would be able to route the information to the correct jurisdiction. He added dispatch would still send a call to their units and even though it may be out of their jurisdiction when it comes to rescue or safety they will respond until the other units arrive. Sr. Sergeant Hethington explained a call is put out to the Coast Guard as well as to all patrol in the area if concerns a water rescue. Mr. Brimmer stated the reason he asked is for tourists and making sure they are educated if something were to happen on the water.  Police, Judicial and Legal Committee June 5, 2017 Page 8 of 22 Mayor Page stated that should be added to the communication for the public that if there is a water issue to call 9-1-1 for immediate assistance. 4. Judicial matters a. Employee years of service recognition Ms. LeVica Kirvin recognized Kimberly Gaillard for 10 years of service. She stated Ms. Gaillard is a Court Clerk Specialist. Ms. Kirvin explained Ms. Gaillard is one of the two young ladies who takes in the money at the window for the Municipal Court. Ms. Kirvin stated Ms. Gaillard is responsible for an individual’s civil liberties in that she issues bench warrants and suspends driver’s licenses. She added Ms. Gaillard takes those responsibilities very seriously. Ms. Kirvin stated Ms. Gaillard is very conscientious, and methodical when she prepares the bench warrants to ensure they are accurate before sending them over to the Police Department. Ms. Kirvin stated Ms. Gaillard also goes above her job duties as she takes the time to help someone get an issue resolved who may have been given the run around by another agency. She added the Town is very fortunate to have someone of Ms. Gaillard’s caliber. Ms. Kirvin expressed that she looks forward to Ms. Gaillard working for the Town for another 10 years. b. Discussion regarding a public index for Municipal Court Mr. Brimmer stated he works in the criminal justice system and a part of what he does is review criminal histories. He explained some of that work involves going to public indexes. He stated court records are public documents and should be accessible to the public. Mr. Brimmer stated he could easily find files for Charleston County, City of Charleston and North Charleston but was having some difficulty finding the information for Mount Pleasant. Mr. Brimmer stated he called Ms. Kirvin to explain what he was trying to find. Ms. Kirvin indicated that the Town has a public index in place on the Town’s website. Mr. Brimmer stated it is not  Police, Judicial and Legal Committee June 5, 2017 Page 9 of 22 well publicized but is available so looking up warrants and tickets is possible. He stated he appreciated Ms. Kirvin’s help. Ms. Kirvin explained that the public index is part of the software used for the court’s online payments. She stated that when someone goes online to make a payment they can look up a lot of additional information such as their court date or how much they owe on a citation. Ms. Kirvin stated access to the court’s online services was announced on social media and added Ms. Martine Wolfe was very helpful in this regard. Mr. Brimmer stated for transparency purposes they need to make certain what is available to the public is made available to the public. He stated no action is required as he has received the information he requested. Mr. Brimmer asked for a link to be included on the website to let the public know how to access that information because currently an individual would have to know to look under the payment tab to get that information. 5. Legal matters a. Discussion of an ethics policy governing members of Town Council Mayor Page stated she knows there was a lot of discussion on the ethics policy governing members of Town Council and her recollection was it was going to come back to committee for more discussion. Mr. Pagliarini stated that after last month’s meeting a draft had been worked up and sent to each member. He stated the committee members should have a five page proposed document code of ethics and conduct for elected and appointed officials. He explained the process at this point would be for this committee as well as all council members to review this document as they all have the option of voting to put this on the agenda or as always per our ordinance any council member could place this on the agenda for council. Mr. Pagliarini stated if the committee would like him to hit some highlights he would be glad to do so. Mayor Page stated she could like Mr. Pagliarini to go over the  Police, Judicial and Legal Committee June 5, 2017 Page 10 of 22 document as she has an electronic copy and did not have it pulled up in front of her. Mr. Pagliarini explained this draft is for elected officials and appointed officials as the Town’s current code only has conduct in place for employees. He stated from a legal standpoint the state weighs in and controls the field as far as elected ethics and penalties mainly related to financial issues. He stated the draft, with council member input, relates to ethics as far as acting in the public interest, conduct of members, respect for the process and advocacy all of those positive types of actions including conduct guidelines as far as elected and appointed officials conduct with each other at public meetings and conduct with town staff. Mr. Pagliarini stated there are the three basic elements; general ethics, conduct among each other and conduct with staff. He stated the fourth portion relates to sanctions and this is where he explained they had to do a good bit of work. He stated the draft that the committee received has two parts of sanctions. The first, council members who intentionally or repeatedly do not follow proper conduct may be reprimanded or formally censured in accordance with Chapter 15 of Robert’s Rules order. Mr. Pagliarini stated Robert’s Rules has additional penalties, most likely are not appropriate given that the state has weighed in on the heavy type of sanctions, not to say reprimanding or formal censuring are heavy but according to this draft that would be dealt with at council. He stated Robert’s Rules allows for motions to be made in that regard and added in our form of government those can be made by any member and like any motion those are debated, discussed and ultimately voted on. Mr. Pagliarini stated the second part of sanctions relates to employee Boards, Committee and Commission members and in accordance with this draft that would be counseling, reprimand, written warnings administered. He explained this draft provides the authority to the Mayor to issue those verbal reprimands, written warnings to follow the sanctions. He stated copies of those sanctions dispensed among appropriate and key positions at the Town. Mr. Pagliarini stated the final portion of the draft is implementation. He read from the draft “The Code of Ethics and Conduct is intended to be  Police, Judicial and Legal Committee June 5, 2017 Page 11 of 22 self-enforcing and is an expression of the standards of conduct for members expected by the Town. It therefore becomes most effective when members are thoroughly familiar with it and embrace its provisions.” He stated any ethics policy is only as good as the seriousness that everyone takes it for. Mr. Pagliarini stated those are general highlights but would be happy to answer any questions. Mayor Page stated she would like to deal with the last line first and asked if this would be mandatory for all appointed and elected officials or would this be something to be signed and police yourself on. Mr. Pagliarini stated from his standpoint it can be done either way. He stated the draft, as written, the provision is that it shall be included in regular orientation for candidates and Town Council. He added members entering office shall sign the statement so this draft as it is currently drafted would be part of any requirement for all council members. Mayor Page stated she would turn it over to the committee for questions. She stated she still has some concerns with it as it is a bit uncomfortable to think that they would be policing their other council members and some of the policing issues are manners and kindness and consideration. Mr. Carrier asked Mr. Pagliarini if this also covers email correspondence among council members. Mr. Pagliarini stated the way it is written it would cover all behavior but mainly it references behavior while at public meetings. Mr. Brimmer stated he is not familiar with this draft as he does not recall ever receiving it therefore he cannot comment on it. He stated he would love to get a copy and be able to provide Mr. Pagliarini with his comments on the draft. Mayor Page asked Mr. Brimmer if he would like to receive a copy of the draft today and bring it back to this committee for more discussion next month. Mr. Smith stated he supports the spirit in which he thinks this is coming from. He stated Mr. Pagliarini mentioned the advocacy component of the draft in a non-partisan role that each of the council members serve.  Police, Judicial and Legal Committee June 5, 2017 Page 12 of 22 He stated he wants to dive deeper into the advocacy piece of it, specifically what happens if he thinks it is an unethical behavior of his colleagues to not take a position on a partisan issue. Mr. Smith used an example of when the Mayor was contacted by heavily democrat mayoral section to support an issue and if he is politically aligned with that special interest group and the Mayor is not can he then bring forth action on her for not taking the position that he wants the Mayor to take from an advocacy role under the auspices of this new guideline. Mr. Pagliarini stated he thinks the written draft is fairly specific in that it does relate to relationships among each other and staff. He stated Mr. Smith may be referencing the provision that says compliance with law and town policy as to whether it can be stretched to include that. Mr. Pagliarini explained with any law or policy the danger lies in stretching it to the outside of its intended purpose but as he read the draft and reviewed it he stated it does a very good job of staying within those limitations. He stated our codes state that if the Town’s rules do not cover it they turn to Robert’s Rules Order that is the catch all. He added there is a reference in there to the penalty sanction provision of Robert’s Rules, Chapter 15, and its reprimand or formally censured and that process is a council process to do that. Mr. Pagliarini reiterated going back to our ordinance, to get anything on a council agenda one member can put it on the agenda and also reminded of how restricted they are by the current status of the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) laws is that they cannot just do something at council there has to be on an agenda either through committee or one council member put it on an agenda and it would be discussed or debated like any other motion. Mr. Smith stated if they need to have an ordinance to tell them acceptable behavior he will support that. Mayor Page stated Mr. Smith brings up a good point. She stated they already have a provision in place because they have the State Ethics Commission that someone can be turned into as well as Roberts Rules of Order that they can use to sanction someone. Mr. Pagliarini stated this is the grey area that they were challenged with, what does the state cover and what does it not and what does Roberts  Police, Judicial and Legal Committee June 5, 2017 Page 13 of 22 Rules allow. He stated if in fact there is nothing in our state code that covers an area then they go to Roberts Rules for procedure but he agrees those sanctioning not covered by the state would be permissible or allowable under Roberts Rules. Mayor Page stated she likes less regulation instead of more regulation kind of person. She stated it seems overly redundant. Mayor Page asked Mr. Santos if there is a specific issue he is trying to address. Mr. Gary Santos, 1690 Greystone Blvd. of Mount Pleasant, stated there were some issues that have come up and that were not addressed by Roberts Rules or the State Ethics Commission that have to do with how they deal with staff and some of the things that are said out in public forums. He stated it is a really good resolution and is good for them to tell the public that they are not above reproach. He stated they should not have an issue approving something like this. Mr. Santos stated it gives them an opportunity to look at council and the appointed officials as well and if they get out of line they have to have something to be able to talk to them about or if bad comes to worse have them step down and bring someone else on. He added it shows the public that council is willing to put themselves out there and move forward to do the right things and that they are conscientious enough to be able to look at themselves and their conduct, look how they are treating staff and keep themselves above reproach. Mayor Page thanked Mr. Santos for his comments. Mayor Page asked Mr. Pagliarini to read her the provision that would protect staff from elected and appointed officials. She asked how would it be used if she as a council member had an issue with how another council member, commissioner or appointed person was treating a staff member how is that addressed and what could she do. Mr. Pagliarini stated there is a specific provision under conduct guidelines and there are two parts to it. The first is elected and appointed officials conduct with each other and the second is elected and appointed officials conduct with town staff. He stated those are spelled out, specifically the staff portion. Mr. Pagliarini quoted the headings; “Treat all staff as professionals”, “Do not disrupt town staff  Police, Judicial and Legal Committee June 5, 2017 Page 14 of 22 from their jobs”, “Never publicly criticize an individual employee”, “Do not get involved in administrative functions”, “Do not solicit local support from staff” and “No attorney client relationship” which he stated are all fairly self-evident. He stated those are the staff conduct provisions that are in the document. Mayor Page asked to have that broken down a little. She asked if Mr. Pagliarini could reference the line again about don’t interfere with staff’s job. Mr. Pagliarini stated it says “Do not disrupt town staff from their jobs” and added the language in that section says “elected and appointed officials shall not disrupt town staff while they are in meeting, on the phone or engrossed in performing job functions in order to have individual needs met. Do not attend town staff meetings unless requested by staff.” Mr. Pagliarini stated it goes on to say do not do anything that would put staff in a position to show partiality, intimidate or hamper staff’s ability to do their job effectively. Mayor Page asked when Mr. Brimmer went to Ms. Kirvin directly to speak to her about public indexing if that falls under the scope of interfering with her job. She also gave an example of if she goes to see Mr. DeMoura and he is on the phone and she waits in the hallway and ask him a question related to an apprehension over at the police department if that would also be considered interference with his job. Mayor Page stated she is very challenged and asked if a new structure is necessary. She stated Mr. DeMoura works for the Council and all employees work for Mr. DeMoura. Mayor Page asked if that means any request, question or issue she has on anything she would like to talk about, including an ethics policy, would come first to the Mayor as Chair of the Police, Judicial and Legal Committee and then she would take it to the appropriate staff. Mayor Page also asked if she would have to go through Mr. Smith, Economic Development Committee Chair, if he would be the only one to have direct contact with Ms. Livingston to discuss an economic development issue. Mr. Pagliarini stated the language in the draft is intended to be more specific than that as it says do not disrupt town staff while they are in meetings etc. He stated it is possible that in reading that could be the  Police, Judicial and Legal Committee June 5, 2017 Page 15 of 22 interpretation any reasonable person can have. Mr. Pagliarini stated one thing Legal has always admired is the accessibility of the department heads. He added the Mayor is correct there is a way that a shield could be raised up to where there is very limited communication. Mayor Page stated the challenge would be it could hurt a great nurtured relationship with individual council members and staff and added that is a problem for her. She asked if access to staff would now be limited except through committee and if that is the true form of this government. Mayor Page asked how are they supposed to work as a government as they are not supposed to be in the staff’s business trying to get their dealings done and added these are big shields. She stated she welcomes big shields if that is the intent because it drives it to open public comment and that they are having public meetings and these items are put on agendas and they are talking about them for the first time in the committee setting as opposed to other conversations. Mayor Page stated she is not trying to skew the committee one way or another. She added she does not think they are ready to sign this document unless they really have a full council conversation about the intent. Mayor Page asked Mr. DeMoura what the procedure would be if she saw one of her council members abusing either a privilege or comment with staff. Mr. DeMoura stated she would speak to the elected official directly. Mayor Page asked what if one of the council members witnessed the Mayor speaking to a staff member out of line what would the council members’ repercussion be to that issue. Mr. DeMoura stated communication is always the best policy but after posing a grievance to the other council member if nothing was accomplished and the behavior continued that was felt was an issue then that would trigger something more formal. Mayor Page stated she still has problems with it and does not think they are ready. Mr. Santos stated that if Mr. Brimmer called Ms. Kirvin to request information that is fine but if he called Ms. Kirvin and demanded that she stop what she is doing and get him his answers that becomes an issue as he would be demanding staff to do something. He stated there  Police, Judicial and Legal Committee June 5, 2017 Page 16 of 22 is a big difference from asking staff a question versus telling them to do something. He stated it is the same in the economic development example. Mr. Santos stated if Mr. Smith called Ms. Livingston and inquired on an issue that is one thing but if he called and demanded Ms. Livingston to do this or that it is different. He stated and that is what this draft is supposed to address. Mayor Page asked Mr. Santos for clarification. She asked Mr. Santos if he did not want council members to be able to direct staff to do things for them. Mr. Santos stated that is correct, council members should be going through the Town Administrator. Mayor Page asked if this would also apply to an item concerning their committee that they would like to put on an agenda. Mr. Santos confirmed they should go to the Town Administrator. He added the Town Administrator is the one who puts the agenda together. Mr. Santos stated there is no problem to ask and speak with staff but when a council member needs something done they should go to the Town Administrator and let him put it on the agenda as he may have a different view or be able to answer the question being posed. Mr. Santos stated the idea is the Town Administrator would be the focal point. He stated there would be no issue with council speaking with staff, get their ideas, but when it comes to ordering staff to do something that is where he draws the line. Mr. Santos stated he does not see the need for council members coming to individual staff members and telling them to do something. Mayor Page stated she cannot say she does not disagree with Mr. Santos. She stated she has asked staff members to get her information before and she will continue to have to ask staff to get information, not as Mayor but as a council member because before she turns to the Town Administrator she had to know if there was any importance really more for the employee. Mayor Page gave the example of asking Ms. Cotov, Department Head of the Finance Department, casually, not demand her to do a lot of work, if she could get her the number of actual reimbursements for flooding issues in the Old Village and Ms. Cotov would have to get her that information. She stated she believes all  Police, Judicial and Legal Committee June 5, 2017 Page 17 of 22 council members have at one time or another directed staff to get them information. Mr. Brimmer stated on the few occasions when he has requested information he usually does so through email and copies Mr. DeMoura on his requests. He stated he does this so if there was an issue Mr. DeMoura could address it with him directly. Mayor Page stated that is great information and the policy should be how to get things done not how someone behaves towards other people. She stated perhaps it is best to say they as a council really want to do this right. She stated they are a council form of government and her vote is just like the other members and added resolution that she makes at other places may not be binding. Mayor Page stated her understanding is this would be limiting their access and if that is the intent of the draft is then she understands but it seems more procedural than how you behave towards someone. Mr. Santos stated it is all of it wrapped into one. He stated it all should be directed through the Town Administrator. Mr. Santos stated he has no issue with council members asking questions to staff. He added the issue he has is telling them or directing them what to do and that is where he draws the line. Mayor Page asked Mr. Santos how they would access Mr. DeMoura because he has over 600 employees. Mr. Santos suggested that maybe Mr. DeMoura on receiving a request via email could send that email on to the appropriate staff member. He added at least he is in the loop and given staff permission to follow up and work with council. Mr. Santos stated he is trying to make certain there is no overstep in authority. Mayor Page stated she needs more clarification on the process and if it is going to be that they send email communication and copy Mr. DeMoura on everything with staff she does not see that in the document. Mayor Page asked how they get access to Mr. DeMoura as he is very busy taking calls and attending meeting with over 600 employees. Mr. Santos stated the best way to handle it is to go through Mr. DeMoura so he can decide the best way to handle it.  Police, Judicial and Legal Committee June 5, 2017 Page 18 of 22 Mr. DeMoura stated all of this is in council’s domain but to help the committee reach a decision he thought it was important to go over how the process works today. He stated whether council decides to restrict themselves or not restrict themselves is up to them. Mr. DeMoura explained he usually tries to strike as much balance as possible because they are elected officials. He stated he was not elected nor were the 600 employees who work for the Town of Mount Pleasant. Mr. DeMoura stated they are the elected body and as such deserve and should expect to have access to staff. He stated how it works when they prepare committee agendas he expects Ms. Farrell, Department Manager of the Planning Department, to be in contact directly with Mr. Brimmer, Chairman of the Committee, on the agenda items so they can manage current and future agendas. He stated he relies on the Department Managers for that. Mr. DeMoura stated he would like to think council feels they have access to employees especially himself and Department Managers. He explained that is how the process works now, and has a good balance. Mr. DeMoura stated if there is an issue where an employee is tasked with work that is almost always when he needs to know because that individual also has daily responsibilities, deadlines and tasks that they have to get done. He added when someone is tasked with work he prefers to be contacted about it because he may have more information than that particular individual just because of the nature of the position and having to know what is going on in a number of different areas of the organization. He stated when there is an issue he reaches out to the elected official and asked that the next time he be advised of the situation. Mr. DeMoura stated if they do not let him know then he cannot make certain they are getting information on time as an elected official to share with the public or formulate your own thoughts and added he cannot make sure they are getting the complete information. He stated that is how the process works now and it is up to them whether they want to restrict themselves further or not through the policy.  Police, Judicial and Legal Committee June 5, 2017 Page 19 of 22 Mayor Page thanked Mr. DeMoura for the clarification. She stated she will leave it up to the committee but added she does not think they need a five page document to tell them how they should conduct business. Mr. Jim Owens, 1197 Island View Drive of Mount Pleasant, stated this is another level of reassurance to the electorate. He stated to let them know that they do what they do to go outside the box to ensure they have a council who is trying to do its best to remain above reproach. He stated this has nothing to do with tarnishing the reputation of a colleague, this is to keep them accountable which holds true to their office as public officials. Mr. Owens stated this is something they do not need to govern from behind, they need to lead by example. He stated this give the electorate the reassurance that they need and council needs to make the statement that they are willing to do whatever they can to ensure that their public officials tow the line with respect, dignity and common decency. Mr. Owens stated to respond to the example Mayor Page used in regards to the information asked of Ms. Cotov he stated it would be just as easy to ask Mr. DeMoura if he had any objection to getting a clarification from Ms. Cotov. He explained he had done something similar to that and there are many times Mr. DeMoura has an answer. Mr. Owens stated there is a process already in place which can be improved. He stated this give the electorate the opportunity to realize they are willing to go to whatever bounds they need to ensure that they have a governance in place that is going to be mindful and respectful not only one another and to the public. Mayor Page stated she understand the ethics piece of it, the problem she has is with the procedural part and the sanctioning part of the issue. Mr. Smith stated after hearing the healthy discussion it has become clearer that this is not necessarily an ethics discussion but really a more of a communications discussion primarily centered on respect, tone, clarity and chain of command. He stated he comes back to the fundamental question if there an issue that they are not addressing that perhaps Mr. DeMoura would like to address in an executive session or with full council in executive session that he needs more substance to  Police, Judicial and Legal Committee June 5, 2017 Page 20 of 22 deal with an out of control, non-compliant whatever label they want to put on it council person or Mayor. He stated and if there is an issue they can deal with this issue head on as it relates to respect and tone and basic treatment of staff because that is what most of this conversation has been centered around. Mr. Smith stated he would want to equip the Town Administrator with the tools to do his job effectively. He stated he can often recall apologizing to Mr. DeMoura for blowing up his email by copying him in on most of his communications with staff. Mr. Smith stated he hears a different discussion being had with almost all the comments centered on tone and communication. Mr. DeMoura stated over his tenure with the Town there has had to be discussion between himself and an elected official. He stated these conversations always took place in private as they should. He stated he deals with an issue head on and if he cannot deal with it head on and if the elected official has a problem with his performance or the performance of a subordinate then he encourages that person go to Town Council and air that issue. He added to date that has not occurred. Mr. DeMoura stated what he senses in this discussion is that there has been a pivot in the discussion from an ethics policy, which is between the elected body, and there is also one component in the draft that has to do with procedure and whether they want to change the procedure is up to them. Mr. DeMoura stated it is a delicate matter. He stated they are all duly elected officials and that means something to him and should mean something to all the staff members. Mr. DeMoura stated he would rather not have the discussion regarding the internal process as to how they communicate with individuals in terms of tasking and getting information. He stated if there is a particular issue of who they are accessing then he can deal with it individually. Mr. DeMoura would rather they continue with the discussion on ethical issues and things that really belong at their level. Mayor Page stated she appreciated Mr. DeMoura’s comments. She stated she is not ready to sign this today as it is written. She added she is not ready to end this conversation.  Police, Judicial and Legal Committee June 5, 2017 Page 21 of 22 Mr. Brimmer stated if this committee decides to take action today he is going to abstain from any vote because he has not read the document and would have nothing else to contribute. Mayor Page asked Mr. Brimmer is he would prefer to have another month to read the document and review it. Mayor Page asked Mr. Pagliarini if there are best practices in other cities. Mr. Pagliarini stated there are and Legal has taken a look at what is happening in South Carolina. He stated some cities do and some do not. Mayor Page stated the Municipal Association was very upset that this document was unearthed and they reached out to her and wanted to know where it came from because they do not recommend it from the Municipal Association’s folder of tools for communities. Mr. Pagliarini stated it was taken from their website. Mayor Page stated she told them that it came from their website. Mr. Pagliarini stated a lot has changed of what the State Ethics Commission has adopted. And that document was the starting point and this draft has evolved from that. Mayor Page asked Mr. Pagliarini to distribute a written copy of the draft and continue discussion next month. Mr. Pagliarini stated he will send it again and if there is some discussion about adding to the element of the staff part, council members could add comments to that section if they see fit there. Mayor Page stated Mr. DeMoura does not want to have that conversation but she thinks it is a big part of any consideration for her. She stated they will take it for advice this month and will talk about it again next month. The committee agreed. Mr. Kevin Kanane, 3032 River Vista Way of Mount Pleasant, stated his concern if somebody is going to use hurt feelings as a way to avoid answering tough question. Mayor Page thanked Mr. Kanane and explained that is what they are trying to get at. Mr. John Wright, 145 --------Lane, asked Mr. DeMoura if there was a standard operating procedure as to how all this should be done. Mr.  Police, Judicial and Legal Committee June 5, 2017 Page 22 of 22 DeMoura stated there was not. Mr. Wright stated one should be established. Mr. Owens stated he wanted to point out the Town has a code of conduct that employees sign in their handbook. He stated they have administrative offices that have a more stringent policy that is relative to the code of conduct. He stated one more level of reassurance for the Town Council to do the same gives our electorate an opportunity to realize that they are as vested to this town if not more than the executive offices or any town employee. Mayor Page asked how many pages the code of conduct has. Mr. DeMoura stated it is in the Human Resource Guidelines and is probably a page or two. Mayor Page asked Mr. DeMoura to provide the committee with a copy of that as well. Mr. Owens stated he was alarmed that Mr. Brimmer has not seen the draft and asked that Legal send it out one more time and get council to edit the document. He added he does not think there is any reason for it to be five pages long. Mr. Owens stated the front half deals with ethics and they are already governed by the State Ethics Commission so a lot of that is a sense of redundancy and that could be removed. He asked that each council member edit it accordingly and get it back to Legal. Mayor Page asked Mr. Pagliarini how many responses he received from the original editing request. Mr. Pagliarini stated he had received edits from Mr. Santos and Mr. Owens. Mayor Page asked when he sends it out again can he do a received receipt. Mr. Brimmer stated he wanted to clarify that he may have easily overlooked in his email. Mr. Pagliarini stated he will send it out today. 6. Adjourn There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 11:37am. Minutes submitted by: Laurie Wilson 06/08/2017