City Council

City Council Command Public Health Safety and Environment co-post of the Committee of a Whole. May 9th, 2023 Purpose: Meeting with Mr. James Davis from bay staters for natural medicine to discuss legalizing certain plant medicines. Speakers: James Davis Dr. Shields, PhD Chief Lucas Miller Attendance: Councilor Varela Councilor Merkl Councilor Cohen Councilor McClain Chair: Tonight, as we discussed, or we stated basically meeting with Mr. James Davis the base stators as the original order was set out for natural medicine to discuss legalizing certain plant medicines so with that I want to quickly just recap and go over that we're literally doing a redo of this meeting because there was an open meeting law violation because last meeting we did have an issue with the posting of the actual date so apologies on that same with the clerk's office so with that we will do a quick recap with Mr. James Davis on his presentation very short recap. James Davis: Thank you for the opportunity to educate and share some research evidence and experience about plant medicines. What we've learned through their decriminalization in five other Massachusetts cities, those cities being Somerville, Cambridge, Northampton, East Hampton, Amherst, with a few on the way as well. So, psilocybin mushrooms have been used by humans for at least the last 10 000 years. in many different cultural contexts from wine the Greeks consumed to indigenous use throughout Central and South America of her ceremony and psilocybin is an incredible tool for not only mental health but also just personal flourishing and self-growth and So, as our group has grown Bay Staters for natural medicine. we have people from every background you could imagine coming forward to share their stories on how micro dosing and larger doses have benefited them tremendously. that includes doctors’ therapists and even veterans and First Responders police officers that have benefited from using these medicines that are currently considered a schedule one narcotic due to very Arcane federal drug laws dating back almost five decades. So, we had a coalition of organizations across both mental health neurological health and addiction treatment that see these Alternatives as a path forward at a time when opioid overdoses are the number one cause of death for people under the age of 45 people like my brother struggling in very intimate battles that destroy entire families and rob kids of opportunity as we create intergenerational cycles of trauma at a time when a lot of people are depressed anxious and more lonely than ever and seeking connection something that plant medicine very much helps with when it allows people to ease out of their social anxiety after usually just one use or small uses micro dosing over time next slide please Andy so to get this started let's talk about depression I was just speaking to the chief before about some of the major causes of death in Salem and many other communities across the state and one point that occurred to me is our mental health is intimately connected like a web or a mycelium for people who like mushrooms for example anytime a celebrity commits suicide there's a wave of suicides throughout the United States and this is true on college campuses as well there's also, a spike in car accidents probably because people take more risks while driving because they're not actively taking their lives but they're more willing to risk their lives when we have a collective disturbance like a very visual suicide of a celebrity and what this underscore is that even if one personally doesn't use psilocybin one isn't interested in using these types of plant medicines other people in our community finding relief from them truly benefits us all because as cliched as it sounds our Mental Health We're All in This Together a 20-year meta-analysis of controlled trials that have been done with psilocybin found statistically significant benefits for depression this was a study published in the Journal of psychopharmacology looking at 20 years of evidence that has been mounting psilocybin itself is the most studied pharmacological compound in U.S history with thousands of studies published on its use even prior to 1950 about 20 years before it was criminalized and the reason why it's beneficial one major reason why it's beneficial it is allowing people to dissolve a lot of the rumination cycles that tell them they're not good enough or you know force them to focus on traumatic episodes in their life instead of being able to set a vision and course for the future set new goals think in a new way and that effect is referred to as neuroplasticity because psilocybin mushrooms are neurogenerative they can quite literally allow new brain cells to form in the brain and so with the proper care intentions and setting a controlled setting a calm setting like with a trusted friend with a therapist or with a mental health care provider they can be incredibly beneficial for forming new habits of mind and for setting intentions and goals for the future setting a path forward through depression and substance use another major cause of death across Massachusetts, we lose almost one person every four hours throughout the Commonwealth to opioid overdoses by the time this meeting is over someone will be on that path to you know a family losing their son or daughter back one side please and a study of 44 000 Americans found that a single use of psilocybin reduces the risk of daily opiate use by nearly 40 percent and several of the mechanisms involved are first allowing people to get to the source of their trauma at which we know drives addiction issues and then second providing relief with the neuroreceptors in the brain that interact with withdrawal and that study was actually backed up by another one in the international Journal of drug policy this time in Canada and found an even stronger effect of 55 percent there's also other plant medicines on the way that we hope are eventually legalized throughout the Commonwealth including ibogaine which is legally available in Costa Rica in Jamaica in New Zealand and that's the ironic part about a lot of these plant medicines there are people from Massachusetts who pay many thousands of dollars to fly to other countries to access these medicines or in the case of psilocybin will sometimes fly all the way to California to get them from a loved one when there are plenty of people who grow them right here in Salem and right in North Shore and if they were allowed to be transparent and talk about it you know people wouldn't struggle to find this fungi that is helping them feel better if I may be blind Mr. Davis I know this is posted on the last meeting from it's a recorded So if we can give you the can we get the under bridge version yeah you got it this table simply for those watching at home that are going to watch the other recording as well this demonstrates the cost Effectiveness and non- addictiveness of psilocybin and ibogaine compared to many commonly prescribed medication assisted treatments this also has critical implications for Crime as a whole in the United States because a lot of people that commit common crimes they're acting out of a place of trauma so a study of almost 200 000 U.S inmates in Georgia found that again a single use of a psychedelic substantially reduced the likelihood of folks when they get out of the carceral system reoffending in a violent way committing property crime or getting involved in the illicit substance trade more generally and that's likely because when people have this experience they have a better vision of their lives going forward thank you this table is from the Lancet and one of the most prestigious journals in the world and it finds that mushrooms have the lowest harm profile of any controlled substance at the top is alcohol which I enjoy a great deal once in a while but has a lot of Social and physical harms associated with it and what this underlines is that prohibition makes us all a lot less safe because we're unable to educate about the best way to use these medicines the best context to use these medicines and the right dosage to use these medicines you know Genesis also has a lot of potential treatments for cluster headaches and other painful migraine conditions and may soon teach us enough about the brain to overcome challenges like Alzheimer's and Dementia as well as many early Studies have shown by and large in Massachusetts voters when they are polled strongly support decriminalizing home growing and sharing of these plant medicines a poll in Boston Globe on our work showed that 9 and 10 supported ending those arrests another poll I believe through boston.com showed eight and ten supported this policy it's a super majority support and this measure in Salem will help us build momentum for Statewide reform as well so our measure tonight means more conversations between parents and their kids more conversations between therapists and their clients and more conversations between doctors and their patients it means more choices for people who desperately need them at a time when our Mental Health crisis is rearing its ugly head and it means more transparency and Trust because let's face it when we don't have legitimate policies on the books people start to distrust their City they start to distrust the entire Public Health Community and that's why it's important we are honest and acknowledge the benefits of psilocybin. Chair: Tonight, we will be discussing the actual resolution for the City of Salem. I'd like to bring up Dr Shields up here who helped draft the resolution here and with Chief Miller. I just wanted to make this clear within drafting the resolution we felt that it was appropriate that we start with, specifically psilocybin. So, this resolution is just about Psilocybin plants contain basically psilocybin. I will bring up the Resolution, which all the counselors have, and I know there's a couple being passed around which I'm happy to I have more documents for you guys. Dr Shields: 469 Loring Avenue in Salem. I'm a research scientist who specializes in the intersection of neurodiversity and chemo diversity for cannabis and psychedelics. I've been in the research World in these realms for the past 14 years. I've dedicated my life to researching the molecular mechanism of these substances and how they can help each of us individually and as James mentioned as a community. and one of the reasons why I'm so passionate about decriminalization and specifically when it comes to psilocybin containing mushrooms fungi, is that there is unprecedented like proof and evidence in the scientific literature that there is a therapeutic benefit that isn't seen and that isn't addressed and that is currently a growing problem that we need to address. Another reason I think that psilocybin containing mushrooms are a good place for Asylum to start. has to do with something exactly that James mentioned which is about cultivation and it's about safety and it's about the ability for us to have a knowledgeable and trusted community. and a knowledgeable and trusted built like medicinal community that is more than just individuals and is more than just this kind of sterile interaction of like that that is one molecule that is going to give us this benefit. It’s so it's so much more than that it's been more than that in our communities for thousands and thousands of years. and I think it's a piece of our health that has been missing and that should be addressed. and I think that for Salem, and I've been a resident here for a year now it's a way to get this conversation started. We can build more community support and we can start creating the ability for our others will hear them speak later in public commentary. that there are already people here in Salem who are ready to bring their expertise to the table. who are ready to build something out that's greater and we can be an example for how We can do this in a way that is safe and in a way that is focused on their therapeutic effects. and is focused also on empowering the community so that each of us can feel comfortable even making our own medicine in a way that is controlled and is a way that is safe and accepted. Chief Miller: I touched on a little bit last time and I'll bring it up again. the degree to which substance use disorder and specifically deaths as a result of fentanyl overdose opiate overdose. That’s probably the thing that keeps me up at night the most. that the mortality in Salem as a result of this is more than any other sort of thing that falls under my jurisdiction as it were. So, I think it would be irresponsible to stand in the way of developing a potential therapy that would assist with this. Similarly mental health calls mental health issues drive a tremendous portion of police calls. So similarly therapies that could assist with that I think would benefit Salem. when would specifically benefit the Salem Police Department. Arrests Force possession of psilocybin was already a relatively low priority for the Salem Police Department. But I want to thank you Council Varel and thank you Dr Shields for working with me to put language in this resolution that was really it was it was palatable to a chief of police I think I think the degree to which you call on action or inaction from the police department is entirely reasonable and it's not it's not a heavy lift for me so I'm very pleased to be part of this to take part in the crafting of the resolution but also to get out of the way of progress awesome. C. Merkel: no questions everything's been explained really clearly just a couple of comments first of all I really appreciate all the time everyone has taken to come here and provide all the education on this personally this has been very educational for me and I really appreciate of Chief Miller's perspective as well because I think that's an important piece of this of putting you know putting this together and I really like the points you made of you know in reference to the you know tragic amount of overdoses that we just certainly don't want to stand in the way of any new therapies as someone myself who has been on medication you know for psychiatric reasons any options out there to help is huge also I also feel you know in reading the resolution and the work that women into it you know what is the step we can take towards you know addressing the impact of you know what has been called The War on Drugs is as you know we know has you know led to unnecessary penalization arrests and incarceration of vulnerable people it targets people of color just as written in the resolution here and I think any stuff we can take in that direction is really impactful as well so yeah I welcome all of you being here and the information we've received on this it's been super helpful. C McClain: My apologies to everybody for being late I'm also I'll also start with a comment that I appreciate this this conversation I think I think in the current context of our society where it's very clear that addiction and struggles with mental health are really running rampant certainly I think in the wake of covid we've seen an explosion in the need for a therapeutic and mental health services that unfortunately is not being met I think by the medical system that we have now due to lack of capacity I think having conversations like this is really important and anything that sort of highlights and amplifies the conversation around the need to provide for the mental well-being of the people in our communities is really important so I'm very appreciative of that and I'm appreciative of all the information that's come forward about it now twice so I do want to ask the chief specifically knowing that you've had an opportunity to work on the drafting of this language along with Dr Shields and counselor Varela and in knowing that as it stands now this already is a relatively low priority for our Police Department this is not something that is not something that is generating a lot of issues in our community as it stands do you see anything in the language before us that would impede your ability. Chief Miller: to maintain the safety of the community who should the landscape change right let's say that people do in fact begin to engage with this at a higher rate and in a deeper way do you feel that you'll still be able to do what you need to do in order to regulate the behavior of the community disruptive behavior and make sure that there's sort of a safe a safe playing field going on out there for the average citizen. I do I think you know it sort of rests in that word deprioritization we do prioritize different laws based on a number of different factors dangerousness Community standards things like that but we can always adjust our priorities when a need arises and one of the things that I appreciate about the resolution is it doesn't take away my ability to enforce any law in the state of Massachusetts but it does simply change that priority. C. McClain: I think that's I think that's a really important question because I think a lot of a lot of what we're discussing here is as councilor Merkel said going to be educational for a lot of people there are some people that I think are familiar with information like this, but I think for a lot of members of the community this is going to be something new and so I think that question of are we going to be able to be responsible as the situation changes it's going to be really important, so I appreciate that Information. C. Cohen: so, excuse the pun but this is a high-level conversation and although there's been a lot of three syllable words and I'm exotic four I mean four syllables and I'm excited three I do want to express my appreciation for this resolution for a few reasons when I was share of films no place for hate committee which is not a human rights Coalition, we always brought Wendy Kent in to speak about the stigma of substance and how it the stigma by itself prevents people from maintaining housing getting you know jobs they may have applied for ETC and so I think it's really important that we have in addition to this resolution the kind of Outreach and education that we need, and chief Miller and I spoke before about some potential sources that can accommodate that and I do appreciate the openness and collaboration from the police that involvement is really going to be prioritized when it's necessary so, I'm very much for this I think the other counselors talked about this the impact it has on our marginalized communities and the lack of awareness that we have in our general Community about the benefits a lot of things that Mr. Davis talked about I am going to make a quick plug I was on the opiate task force the citizens opiate task force it’s a little bit dormant now but we've had meetings with the police department the community impact unit and healthy streets who are here thank you and yeah friends of ours in the community and the work they do that is really maybe only underappreciated because people aren't aware of all the good work they do in coordination with the police department, but we are going to re-vitalize an event that we used to do every year and basically, it's a Remembrance Day as the chief said you know although we may have less overdoses this the cost and the severity of some of the substances are so dramatic that we've had more deaths unfortunately and we're going to have a Remembrance Day, so you don't have to live in Salem everyone in the room and the public is invited on August 31st it'll be late afternoon we'll publicize it and we'll have people from the task force and healthy streets and the police department we usually have some t-shirts made up oh you've already approved that [Applause] and I think this goes in in line with the misconception that people have that these substances that people can grow themselves or at some point maybe get into different from a different Source are just meant for people to get high and not used to treat a variety of things that they have no other means to you know to address the things that are affecting them so I'm supportive and I am anxious to hear from other people in the public, but I do want to also express my appreciation to you chair for your you know persistence on this and bringing back an even bigger group than we had at the last meeting. Chair: I just wanted to thank Chief Miller and Dr Shields I really believe that this is a much larger conversation it's about harm reduction how do we get creative with not only education about these substances but how do we figure out a way to treat people differently so thank you for your time on this. Mr. Brendan O'Connor: 211 Rantoul St in Beverly. so, I'll briefly highlight some of the topics that I covered in the last meeting, but I would encourage any questions afterwards if for the details I needed so as my role as Vice President of Operations at Cambridge biotherapies in in Cambridge in in Amherst we treat lots of patients that are struggling from depression anxiety PTSD OCD trauma many of which can manifest into things like addiction right and the efficacy of we use ketamine infusions which is another psychedelic much like psilocybin is a psychedelic so the mechanisms of action in terms of the experience of a psychedelic we don't exactly know how that works right there's lots of exciting clinical studies that are coming out now that will help us understand what the right protocols what the right substances are for the right illnesses but we know that you know for whatever reason the Psychedelic experience is this unifying sort of experience in a sense regardless of the substance that you use to get there so in other words what I'm what I'm proposing is that the results that we see that I thinks are very impressive and impactful for treating these mental illnesses with the only psychedelic we have available to us at a federal level with the DEA which is ketamine right I would argue will are to be expected to also apply to psilocybin so that's why the commentary and experience that I see I think is relevant to this conversation so we'll have someone just to walk through a quick protocol because I feel like that's helpful to make this really you know at the at the Forefront of like actually how this care is administered so we'll see someone who is suffering and they'll undergo a complete psychiatric evaluation from a prescriber at that point if psychedelic assistant therapy or specifically ketamine-assisted Psychotherapy is deemed appropriate for then they'll go ahead and go into the clinic for a series of ketamine infusions followed by Psychotherapy followed by more Psychotherapy afterwards it was just commonly called integration so I wouldn't be surprised if we see similar models come out in the world in the in the clinical world once tools like psilocybin are available to us clinically so let me pause there and wrap up my comments but just encourage any additional questions if there may be any. Public Comment: Matt Stella: 22 Oliver Street Salem. I just want to thank you guys, thank the council for entertaining and considering what I what I feel is important public health and Community Wellness consideration and I want to thank you Chief Miller for being so open-minded and solid in terms of like really keeping in mind the safety of our community where I'm raising my kids but also open-minded to the risk of not considering measures that might actually, improve well-being and Community Health and other levels and so it takes an enlightened police chief in my view to take that position so thanks thank you I'll try to make it brief but mainly what I want to share is that I am a psychotherapist in private practice here in Salem and I work a lot with the effects of trauma in people with histories of abuse and Trauma I worked for about 10 years or so with an organization called men healing that works with male survivors of sexual assault and sexual abuse and I have spent thousands of dollars on trainings for approaches in trying to heal trauma depression anxiety in other words I'm I'm seeking tools to empower me my colleagues’ other clinicians to do the healing that was paid to do and that we care a lot about psychedelic medicine like psilocybin mushrooms like you're considering decriminalizing are offer a certain kind of promise that I just want to I just want to express to you people millions of people take medication for psychiatric symptoms and disorders every day lots of anti-anxiety anti- depression management kind of medications and a lot of the tools that are at our disposal as clinicians are about improving someone's life by helping them cope better and better and better with the things that they suffer by psychedelic medicine or psilocybin used in a clinical setting is a whole different model actually where we're not talking about coping better, we're not talking about being hooked on a medication for your life for the rest of your life or for the next 10 years we're talking about transformation and healing we're talking about clearing a trauma out of your nervous system so that you no longer suffer that way that is radically different model of healing and transformation that is what's at stake here for the community I'm coming at it from a mental health clinical position where I feel it's unethical almost to deprive us of using that tool but Mr. Davis is also making the equally important case for the equity of access of a transformational plant medicine that's been used for thousands of years around Wellness so not just in clinical settings like I would employ it but for someone that has a safe enough trustworthy enough setting or friends that can Steward them through a psychedelic healing experience this plant that grows from the earth should be should be allowed to be used let me make one other similar point which is we talked a lot about the abuses of addiction opioid addiction all of the public health tragedy and expense that comes out of addictive substances that's when those substances are used to numb your pain that you can't face or heal so you self-medicate right do we all do it in our little ways I do it with a glass of wine now and then take the edge off or whatever you want to numb or relieve or soothe some kind of pain internally that you feel like you can't handle that's the avoidant way of using substances in that leads to addiction a psilocybin mushroom is a substance used exactly the opposite way instead of using it to dissociate you or numb you from your experience you're using it to associate you in a healthy way with the very thing that was too scary to face and in doing that you can heal it and let it go so, we're talking about using a substance as an ally to actually get deeper into reality as opposed to check out from reality this is a big deal we all are too checked out from reality so, I really want to thank the council for considering the measure and I'll leave it at that. C. Cohen: Ironically, Council Merkel myself and chief Miller were at a presentation that Life Bridge did this morning and talking about how many of the people who they provide services to have in many cases many different contributing factors for them being unhoused or homeless you know could be a TV it could be you know some kind of addiction it could be some mental health issue or in many cases two or three of those at the same time and one of the themes that I took out of that was instead of always appreciating the problem is trying to find a solution that they can you know focus on and so it sounds like what you're talking about is very similar or are the same thing can you speak to that absolutely but can you say more about what you what you're wondering so, you have mentioned that instead of coping with the problem we try to find some path for someone to be in a different place if I'm framing that correctly right and it seems to be the same thing that they're trying to do and a lot of this is interrelated yes you know there's a lot of intersectionality with people who are homeless and people who are facing other challenges and so, I was just trying to get you to talk a little bit more about how you want to get away from the traditional way of approaching a problem that someone might have yeah great . Matt Stella: wellbeing homeless or having trauma in your history or having multiple complex layering of challenges or traumas especially during developmental years leaves a big impact on your nervous system and how you engage with the world a trauma basically disconnects us from our own body from our own feelings from each other from our capacity for relationship authenticity intimacy a disconnects us from our world so healing from trauma healing from homelessness is a reintegration in the community reconnection with yourself your worth reconnection with your relationships and people self-medicating addictive substances reinforce the disconnect as a way to continue to disconnect from the pain but you're also disconnecting from everything good too it's a package deal you're just disconnected psilocybin as an example of a plant medicine is a connector in fact the mechanism maybe Dr Shields could say a lot better than I could. Dr Shields: well once you learn a little bit more about the mycelial network and how that shifts nutrients for all things that grow in the earth that is a whole other realm of that but actually was what you mentioned about traditional versus non-traditional and breaking away one of the most common reasons why there's medical non-compliance for current psychopharmaceuticals is because of that numbing effect or because of these negative side effects that come from specific targeting and that actually in terms of breaking that cycle or creating new ways of accessing like what James brought up of neurogenerative effects of psilocybin mushrooms it's a novel way of approaching an issue because it can help you to actually reframe or completely it is a processing and there are things that we understand and things that we don't yet understand about it but when it comes to forging new ways for people to actually let go and move on and truly integrate an experience to the point where it's not that you don't have that trauma in your past anymore it's not that you would like never to have occurred but it's the point where you're appreciative of it because of how much it's helped you to grow and to move into a next stage of your life and move on to different plays and I think for your question about intersectionality and how this can be addressed I mean this has to do with a ton of other inputs in society and me agree that it's a similar type of approach of decolonizing Medicine of approaching our way of health of mental and physical health in a way that is different than how we've been approaching it before, and we can reduce it down into you know the compounds that are within these mushrooms are unique and are different and in a different combination than what we've been treating with before we can reduce it down to that and that would be true, and we also can expand it to Encompass way more of what we're talking about today about Community Health and about how as a community we can heal together in different ways of approaching it in different like access to these medicines because again if you were to grow it yourself that is the best access that you could ever have it's the most trusted way that you could ever know the quality of your medicine and in terms of the ancestral perspective of what medicine is it was much more based around everything that went into it and not just about what is in the molecule and how those molecules can help which there are new molecules, and these new molecules can help but that it is much more than that and it is something that requires more than that in terms of the community and that it's exciting and I think that it is something that is unprecedented and it is something that fits in with in that context of you were describing of in terms of the unhoused population and what leads to them becoming unhoused and how this is an issue that is more than just one thing and it's an issue that is more than just one Community for sure and that one of one of the ways that we could address this is to address it as a community in more than one way so it's more than that it's going to be the food pantries it's going to be shelters it's going to be more flexible housing that doesn't require people to be completely sober to check into these housing areas right it's going to be Community Endeavors and I think that psilocybin medicines fit in as part of that and in terms of the molecular mechanism we could just go on for like way too long about how it's Unique but it is indeed unique and there has been more research done on it than has been done on the second Pharmaceuticals and that we have evidence for it as a breaker of Cycles as something that helps people to reframe and refocus and then start again and or view it as building upon a foundation in a different way. Mary wheeler: I live at 12 Gage Street in Lynn Mass and I'm speaking on behalf of myself as a harm reduction worker for over two decades with people who use substances I'm hoping that as this comes to fruition am I appreciate our strides towards a non-punitive drug policy and I know watching and I'm just going to use buprenorphine as an example when buprenorphine became a medication for folks with opioid use disorder it was cash only which limited its availability to people for a very long time and ketamine therapy unless I'm incorrect is not available with anything other than cash for depression and anxiety at this point which limits its availability to certain upper echelons of individuals suffering from these disorders myself being one of them I cannot afford ketamine therapy as much as I would love to and I'm hoping maybe Salem might be a really good starting place to consider if this resolution passes are there a way that Salem can support all communities that are interested with the information in different languages a different just you know supplies that are free that are available you know I know a lot about growing mushrooms it's not it's not cheap it's not an easy process necessarily you have to learn a lot about it you have to have the right supplies and like really teaching that education in an equitable way not just to you know a certain small group of people. Chair: to build off that this is exactly why we're trying to decriminalize mushrooms because it should be readily available to everybody not just who can afford it. Mr. Steve Kapantes: 23A Wisteria Street Salem Mass. I just wanted to say thank you to the committee for having this meeting again now that's properly posted it was great to hear from not just The Advocates and residents but the professionals on this matter as well. Rebecca Gerard: 20 Intervale Road in Salem and I'm a licensed independent clinical social worker and for many of the people with whom I work I am very much considered the therapist of Last Resort I started working with folks on the autism spectrum who would be considered high Cog or high IQ, and those folks have a myriad co- occurring mental health condition that are severe chronic depression social anxiety Etc. so, in my two decades of working with this population I know now we need new tools we need them very badly these folks are suffering they're suffering intensely modern day Pharmaceuticals are not helping CBT DBT weekly Psychotherapy for decades on end is not helping enough I know there are more tools they are here they've been studied there's research there's promising new research and I encourage the community of Salem to embrace that. Chair: So, with that thank you everyone for attending tonight, I think this is a positive conversation, a very reasonable conversation on the direction we should go with psilocybin containing fungi so, with that if I could get a motion. C. Cohen just, a little bit, of Logistics if we move this to the with a recommendation to the full Council it will be before the Council on Thursday at seven o'clock if you are interested in doing public comment you have to sign up by 6 30 on Thursday you could sign up any time before that as the agenda is already in place and with that and then incidentally the public comments are limited to three minutes maximum so a little bit different than a subcommittee. Chris malstrom: I'm on 45 Essex Street. I just wanted to again Echo the thanks for you all for having this conversation and conversation and starting this conversation I know from experience my own friends and family members who have utilized this Venison and have noted they felt more substantial impact on their mental health than they've ever felt on drugs such as Lexapro or you know many of the others, so I think it's really important that we continue to push this forward and I love that you all are doing this so thank you so much. C. Cohen: I would like to mention that I'm just speaking for myself every meeting every person I've learned a lot more from each time and I move that we refer this to the full council with the positive this resolution to the full council with a positive recommendation. Votes: let the record show there's three hands plus my own the matter carries. Chair: before we do another motion, I just want to say again thank you everybody for this thoughtful conversation this is one of many for us to look in the right direction as far as helping our residents continuing to get the help, they need Pharmaceuticals are not cheap they're inaccessible to some whereas psilocybin can be very accessible and can be a tool that all can utilize. Meeting adjourned