Design Review Board

DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION MINUTES WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 1, 2012 7:00 P.M. CITY COUNCIL ROOM PRESENT: Steven Rowland, Chairman; Tamie Ehinger, Vice Chair; Richard Martin; Staci Mannion; Karen Cavotta; Rob DeMarco ABSENT: Robert West STAFF: Bradley Birge, Administrator; Planning & Economic Development CALL TO ORDER: Chair Steven Rowland called the meeting to order at 7:04 P.M. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE ANNOUNCEMENT OF RECORDING OF PROCEEDING: Steven Rowland, Chairman stated the proceedings of this meeting are being taped for the benefit of the secretary. Because the minutes are not a verbatim record of the proceedings, the minutes are not a word-for-word transcript of the recording. COMMENTS FROM THE CHAIR: Steven Rowland, Chairman, recognized two individuals who are not here this evening. Mark Hogan whose term had expired some time ago and he stayed on until replacements were achieved. Also, Jason Tommell who was on this Commission a number of years ago and has remained as a alternate. They have both been very diligent in helping us through the past year and half almost two years past their appointments to continue their service to this Commission. It is very much appreciated. We would like to welcome two new members tonight. Rob DeMarco who joins the Commission. He is a resident in the Historic District and brings some worldly knowledge to this Commission as he has lived both in New York City and London. We are very pleased to have him. Karen Cavotta who joins the Commission and who I have had the pleasure of having worked with in the past. Karen has a very creative architectural mind, one of the best I have ever met. We are pleased to have our two new members here and they will be a great addition to the Commission and we look forward to working with them and their long term involvement here. APPLICATIONS UNDER CONSIDERATION: 1. 2011.096 DICKSON RESIDENCE, 25 Franklin Street, Historic Review of exterior renovation in the Urban Residential-4 District. Applicant: Matthew and Suzanne Dickson Mr. Dickson started they are renovating their kitchen and downstairs bathroom adding an addition to their existing residence. They will be doing these renovations to accommodate their growing family. Bilco doors will be removed and the basement will be accessed through the inside of the house. No work will be done on the front of the house. Steven Rowland, Chairman stated the Commission did visit the site and had some questions following the workshop. Bradley Birge, Administrator, Planning and Economic Development stated the Commission is looking for some clarification. There are some questions regarding elevations in the rear of the property. Windows and door specifications are requested. The rear porch will be moved, and the bilco doors will be removed. There is architectural detailing and we understand that none of that detailing will be removed. Mr. Dickson stated the windows upstairs were replaced and the new windows will be aluminum outside wood inside or natural composite wood. Richard Martin stated the Board would need to have drawings/illustrations of actually what is there currently and what is proposed. Manufacturer cut sheets would be needed for the doors and windows. Steven Rowland, Chairman stated this home is a contributing building to the Historic District. The windows were replaced and are not original to the home. Being a contributing building to the Historic District we try to maintain as much of the original fabric as we can. Steven Rowland, Chairman asked if anyone in the audience wished to comment on this application. Samantha Bosshart, Saratoga Preservation Foundation stated we found the application difficult to read and understand. It is not completely accurate as to what the building looks like today. The windows were replaced in 2010 without review and they were replaced with a vinyl window that I am not sure would have been the correct choice. Unfortunately, they are something the Preservation Foundation would not have chosen or preferred. Steven Rowland, Chairman stated it is unfortunate that the windows happened without review of this Commission, especially with being a contributing building to the Historic District. We try to work as hard as we can to try to maintain the original windows in the building to maintain the original fabric of the building. The applicants who desire to replace windows to increase energy efficiency and we are sympathetic to that. This Commission has approved sometimes to the chagrin of the Preservation Foundation replacement windows, but when we have reviewed and accepted the replacement windows we usually hold them to a much higher standard. These windows do not have the appearance of the windows that were removed and that is unfortunate because that is an important detail in historic homes in the historic district. At this point there is not much we can do about it. It is an unfortunate occurrence and we may have seen our way through to a replacement window that might have been much more appropriate than the vinyl. The applicants stated they did not know that replacing the windows required approval. Steven Rowland, Chairman stated the applicants will need to return before this Board with some additional information. The drawings need to be updated and revised. Cut sheets for the doors and windows. Details on the side porch should be reflective of what is happening on the rest of the house. Perhaps some details on the railings as well. Bradley Birge, Administrator, Planning and Economic Development stated our next meeting is in two weeks on February 15, 2012. If you can have this information provided to staff for the Board we will see you on the next agenda. 2. 2012.007 DZ BAR BISTRO, 384-386 Broadway, Historic Review of restaurant facades in the Transect-6 District. Applicant: David Zecchini, DZ Restaurants Agent: Charlie Hoffman, Hoffman Architecture. Mr. Hoffman stated Mr. Zecchini is looking to open a new restaurant at street level at 384-386 Broadway. The existing windows will remain. We will replace the entire transom and rebuild a new store front. It will be brick and bronze. We will be removing the paint from the brick. Steven Rowland, Chairman stated there were a few concerns from the workshop. There is also a letter the Design Review Commission received from the Saratoga Preservation Foundation. The first and major issue is the removal of paint from the City of Saratoga Springs Design Review Commission Minutes – Wednesday, February 1, 2012 – page 2 of 7 brick and once it is removed what is behind it. Renovations which will take place on the lower level, how can we make sure the brick will match. The Board is concerned regarding the addition of the transom and some architectural details. Mr. Hoffman explained how the paint would be moved from the brick and the methods currently used. Also, he explained how the transome would be built onto the building. Steven Rowland, Chairman stated he would like a sample of the brick proposed for the lower section of the building. Richard Martin stated perhaps they should test 4 areas of the brick to see what is underneath. If the mortar is destroyed or intact or if the building would need to be repointed. If you paint the entire building you can change the color without worry about matching brick and mortar. Mr. Hoffman stated there will be no awnings on the front of the building. Offices will be housed on the second floor. Signage will be attached to the building. Cap stone on the windows using a different color. Vents on top will match the windows. Steven Rowland, Chairman stated this district does require color selection approval. Discussion ensued regarding the cost of paint removal, repointing the building matching the motar and the brick versus the idea of repainting the entire building. Also discussed was the attachment of the metal façade, anchoring for the patio railings, lighting, and the front door. It was decided at this time by the applicant to have the building repainted. Steven Rowland, Chairman asked if anyone in the audience wished to comment on this application. None heard. Richard Martin made a motion in the matter of the application of DZ Bar Bistro, 384-386 Broadway, that the application be approved with the following conditions: the brick facade original and new work will all be painted under Administrative action. The attachment of the metal façade and the colors of the building will be reviewed as well as the type of anchoring used for the patio railings. In reference to the four up lights, they will have glow shields as supplied by the manufacturer. Seconded by Tamie Ehinger. Steven Rowland, Chairman asked if there was any further discussion. None heard. VOTE: S. Rowland, Chairman, in favor; T. Ehinger, Vice Chairman, in favor; R. Martin, in favor; S. Mannion; in favor; K. Cavotta, in favor; R. DeMarco, in favor MOTION PASSES: 6-0 3. 2012.004 THIRSTY OWL WINE COMPANY & BISTRO, 184 South Broadway, Architectural Review of mixed use building in the Transect-5 District. RECUSALS: City of Saratoga Springs Design Review Commission Minutes – Wednesday, February 1, 2012 – page 3 of 7 Steven Rowland, Chairman recused himself from this application Richard Martin recused himself from this application. Tamie Ehinger, Vice Chairman assumed the duties of the Chair for this application. Applicant: Ted Cupp Agent: Lisa Hayes, Butler, Rowland and Mays Visual presentation was provided for the Board's review. This is an 1891 house formerly Kimberly's Inn. This will be renovated for a wine tasting business. The back of the building is wood and brick on the exterior. Some additions to the building have been removed. Some windows will be salvaged, other will be replaced. The stained glass window will be saved and used. Most windows will remain where they are currently located. A wrap around porch will be added. The kitchen addition will be removed. The basement entrance has been redone. The existing slate roof is in bad repair. Asphalt shingles will be used to give a slate look. Columns on porch will be 2 x 6. The addition is now approximately 1600 square feet. A fence remains along Enterprise owners private entrance. Main entrance will be from the alleway which is handicapped accessible. There is an undeveloped lot behind the building on Lincoln. A commercial kitchen will offer lite fare. The owner will live upstairs in the summer. There will be two suites. Entranceway indicated by the Tower. Fiber cement clapboard will be used along with composite trims, 6" corner boards and 4" window trim. The applicant will return to the DRC with more details. Signage on site will be a freestanding sign. Owl bracket detail will remain and composite decking will be used. Trash removal via rolloff dumpsters. Applicant is looking for mass and scale approval. The agent for the applicant stated the footprint of this application has been reduced to 1660 square feet from 2400 square feet. Tamie Ehinger, Vice Chairman read into the record a communication from the Preservation Foundation. The Foundation recommends that as much of the original historic fabric as possible is retained including the patterned slate roof on the tower, windows and the first floor addition. The Foundation has concerns about the rear additions. Additions to historic structures should not appear as though they are original to the historic structure. They should appear as an addition to the original building. Tamie Ehinger, Vice Chairman thanked the Preservation Foundation for their input on this application. Discussion ensued regarding material changes from original building and questioned where mechanical space will be located. Tamie Ehinger, Vice Chairman asked if anyone in the audience wished to comment on this application. Samantha Bosshart, Saratoga Preservation Foundation stated on the proposed east elevation you do not see the other tower, will that be not visible from the front. Is the drawing accurate. Is it taller than the gable or offset. I wonder what that would look like with the two towers. If you come down Route 50 you may see it. Discussion ensued regarding the visibility of the tower from both the Route 50 angle and the east elevation. Additional clarification on the roof lines was requested. Staci Mannion made a motion in the matter of the application of the Thirsty Owl Wine Company and Bistro, 184 South Broadway, that the application be approved as submitted on the attached plans so the applicant can proceed with the building permit. Seconded by Rob DeMarco. Tamie Ehinger, Vice Chairman asked if there was any further discussion. None heard. City of Saratoga Springs Design Review Commission Minutes – Wednesday, February 1, 2012 – page 4 of 7 Bradley Birge, Admininstrator; Planning and Economic Details reviewed the items requested of the applicant prior to their return before the Board. Clarification of tower roof lines and it's perspectives, copies of the roof line schematic as well. Final colors, specifications on the windows and the doors. Details on the shingles and investigation as to the tower slate, being able to salvage slate and retain the design work. Lighting, signage, handrailing details, column details, bracket details along with the knee wall and screening or decorative details on screening. VOTE: T. Ehinger, Vice Chairman, in favor; S. Mannion, in favor; K. Cavotta, in favor; R. DeMarco, in favor. S. Rowland, Chairmnan, recused. R. Martin, recused MOTION PASSES: 4-0 Steven Rowland, Chairman resumed his duties as Chair. Richard Martin resumed his position on the Board. 4. 2012.005 STEWARTS, 87 West Avenue, Architectural Review of signage in the Transect-5 District. Applicant: Stewart's Agent: Jennifer Howard. Jennifer Howard gave a brief overview of the project for the Board. Stewart's received an Area Variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals regarding the size of the signage. Color photos were provided to the Board of what currently exists on the corner, landscaping details, elevation details and the proposed signage as well as lighting details. A change was made regarding the addition of decorative fencing versus shrubbery. Example of proposed stone base was provided to the Board. Jennifer Howard stated the building signage is standard. Cut sheets will be provided for the record regarding the fencing. Lighting white on black. Internally lit signs on building. All LED outside. Steven Rowland, Chairman asked if there were any comments or questions. None heard. Steven Rowland, Chairman asked if anyone in the audience wished to comment on this application. None heard. Staci Mannion made a motion in the matter of the application of Stewart's Signage, 87 West Avenue that the application be approved with the following conditions. Fencing details be submitted for the record. Seconded by Richard Martin. Steven Rowland asked if there was any further discussion. None heard. VOTE: City of Saratoga Springs Design Review Commission Minutes – Wednesday, February 1, 2012 – page 5 of 7  S. Rowland, Chairman, in favor; T. Ehinger, Vice Chairman, R. Martin, in favor; S. Mannion; K. Cavota, in favor; R. DeMarco, in favor MOTION PASSES: 6-0 5. 2011.061 RED KAP SIGN, 177 South Broadway, Architectural Review of a freestanding sign in the Transect-5 District. Applicant: Red Kap Sales Agent: Tim Prescott, Ray Sign We are proposing to retrofit the existing Mobil on the Run sign. The question arose regarding the signage to change the prices of the gasoline to an LED style. What was originally asked by this Board was if there was an ability to dim the signage at nighttime. Yes the LED signs actually have built in dimmers so that at nighttime or when it becomes dark outside the sign will dim down. In the bright sunlight it will become brighter so that you are able to see it. The purpose is of course convenience for changing the numbers. We are able to change pricing with a remote versus going out there with a pole or ladder. Originally when the applicant appeared before the Board the sign was not yet in place. That sign has flashing messages on it changing and scrolling. These particular numbers are going to be changed maybe once or twice a day. It is literally a flick of a switch and it is almost invisible to see it change. There are not many options at this time with the LED signage. Steven Rowland, Chairman stated the Commission had some concerns regarding introducing a whole new level of color and brightness. There are a lot of questions regarding color availability. Perhaps there are some examples we might be able to see. Mr. Prescott stated they have retofit many Mobil stations in the area. Latham, Colonie and even some towns that did not allow them. One on Central Avenue in the Village of Colonie which after they allowed the sign stated it really doesn't change much. The signage right now is blue with white letters. Yellow is used to denote diesel. Steven Rowland, Chairman stated just for clarification there is no other option for the background other than black is that correct? Mr. Prescott, stated that is correct. Mr. Prescott stated there are other animated LED signs in Saratoga on SPAC on Route 50, and the City Center. Bradley Birge, Administrator; Planning and Economic Development stated just for clarification the City Center Sign did not come before the Board for approvals . Rob DeMarco stated the new LED signage stands out and becomes a focal point for the entire corner versus with the way it blends in currently very nicely with the surroundings. Tamie Ehinger, Vice Chairman stated that is a very good point. What I would like to do is to take a step back. Regardless of the intensity of the light itself or how it works there are other options out there besides LED. The previous applicant did present another solution that obviously met with some approval here. Is that something you might consider? Mr. Prescott stated he does not have any feedback on the other options, but he does know that some of the other options out there are the scroll type signs. Again, when you change that scroll sign you can stand and literally watch the numbers change. Steven Rowland, Chairman stated the bigger concern of the Commission is more the impact of the brightness and the contrast of the LED and not the amount of time it requires to change the numbers on the signage. These LED signs are City of Saratoga Springs Design Review Commission Minutes – Wednesday, February 1, 2012 – page 6 of 7 extremely bright and a very high contrast sign which from a signage standpoint is great, but what it does to a surrounding neighborhood with hotels and motels who might not want that brightness. That is the thing we are struggling with more than the actual number changing. The number changing is not an issue here. We have seen a few of them in town, the school district has one, SPAC has one, they are not under our review. If they had been I think we would have given them the same feedback that we are giving you. Mr. Prescott stated during his drive into town he witnessed neon in many store windows. He does not think this will be any more distracting than those signs in the windows. Steven Rowland, Chairman stated the Commission needs to do some due diligence. The Board would like to take a ride to see and example of an LED sign. We need to see one. We are not at a good comfort level. We need a much clearer understanding. Perhaps bringing in a sample. Discuss and get back to the Board. Mr. Prescott stated perhaps a visit to a location would be best LED signage inside does not give one a proper perspective. or a sample. I will present this request to my boss. Steven Rowland, Chairman stated if we are going to set a precedent and allow these things we want to know what type of control we have over what they are going to look like. There are a couple in town that we do now have perview over. One that was installed without our review that we do have perview over. It was installed without our knowledge. I certainly would encourage you not to do that. If you want to see us through this we need to be sold on it and we are not there yet. Bradley Birge, Administrator, Planning and Economic Development stated if you have multiple locations available I can send that out to the Board and have them choose a location to make a site visit. APPROVAL OF MINUTES Approval of minutes was deferred to the next meeting. REVIEW OF HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN GUIDELINE HANDOUTS ANNOUNCEMENT DATE OF NEXT MEETING The next scheduled Caravan and Workshop will be February 7, 2012 at 5 PM. The next scheduled Design Review Commission meeting is February 15, 2012 at 7:00 P.M. ADJOURNMENT Richard Martin made a motion to adjourn the meeting. Seconded by Tamie Ehinger, Vice Chairman. VOTE: S. Rowland, Chairman, in favor; T. Ehinger, Vice Chairman, R. Martin, in favor; S. Mannion; K. Cavota, in favor; R. DeMarco, in favor MOTION PASSES: 6-0 Steven Rowland, Chairman adjourned the meeting at 10:10 P.M. Respectfully submitted, Diane Buzanowski Recording Secretary Approved: 3/21/12 City of Saratoga Springs Design Review Commission Minutes – Wednesday, February 1, 2012 – page 7 of 7