Design Review Board

DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION MINUTES (FINAL) WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 16, 2015 7:00 P.M. CITY COUNCIL ROOM PRESENT: Steven Rowland, Chairman; Tamie Ehinger, Vice Chairman; Karen Cavotta; Cynthia Corbett Leslie DiCarlo, Robert West ABSENT: Richard Martin STAFF: Bradley Birge, Administrator, Planning and Economic Development, City of Saratoga Springs CALL TO ORDER: Steven Rowland, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7:00 P.M. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE ANNOUNCEMENT OF RECORDING OF PROCEEDING: Steven Rowland, Chairman, stated the proceedings of this meeting are being recorded for the benefit of the secretary. Because the minutes are not a verbatim record of the proceedings, the minutes are not a word-for-word transcript of the recording. APPLICATIONS UNDER CONSIDERATION: 1. 2014.079 CITY CENTER PARKING STRUCTURE, b/n Maple & High Rock Avenues, Architectural Review of a multi-level parking structure within the Transect-6 Urban Core District. Applicant: City Center, Mark Baker, President, Joe Dalton, Charlie Wheeler, Tom Roohan, Roger Goldsmith, Agent: Matthew J. Jones, Alex Beso, Jones Firm; Jay Stasak, Envision Architecture; Mike Ingersoll, LA Group Mr. Jones provided some background on this project, highlighting a Joint meeting between the Planning Board and the Design Review Commission back on September 17, 2014. The Planning Board accepted SEQRA Lead Agency status and issued a SEQRA Negative Declaration followed by subdivision approval on September 9, 2015. A visual presentation of the site was provided for the Board’s review. This evening the applicants are before the Commission looking for mass and scale approval. Mr. Jones reviewed areas of concern noted by the Design Review Commission in a Joint Meeting held approximately one year ago. These items include the Agora especially relating to security. The weight, mass and scale of the connector. The bulk of the comments had to do with design elements. What the pedestrians will be seeing to get an idea of the mass and scale of the project. The materials were a concern. You urged us to consider a mix of materials, metal, glass, stone and brick, more natural materials. The palette for this project should more relate to the City Center than to the buildings around it. We believe we have a better plan than was presented previously. Mike Ingersoll, LA Group reviewed the site plan and the changes which were made. A visual presentation was provided. The linkage between the two streets was modified adding pedestrian access. The current parking structure provides us with an additional 10’ strip of green space as well as sidewalks. We are working with the green belt trail people to establish a connector. It does allow for a more compliant streetscape. We reviewed the Agora space and we do have a tentative agreement with the Farmers Market. The entrance points flow into the Agora, no steps, ramps or barriers. In meeting with the neighbors on York Street, we will provide after construction approximately 7 parking spaces here which currently do not exist. The setback is 25 feet from the property line on York Street allowing for screening and landscaping. On the Maple Avenue entrance the connector width is decreased in size. Changes in massing has decreased; the building has come down especially on the north side which reduces the connector a half story than previously and now matches the other side. It is not as ominous as some other buildings. Mr. Stasak, Envision Architects reviewed the materials proposed for the project. It is a light sand precast concrete and brick materials. We will create a window type effect throughout the parking structure. The building has been moved back approximately 9 feet from the face to break up the mass along Maple down to High Rock. Blended brick on the City Center will match the parking structure band. The Agora will contain potentially a public art, or some multimedia projected onto the blank wall. Lighting in the agora will have the ability to be dimmed. A review of all elevations and access points. Sternberg lighting is proposed along the property. Lighting in the underpass will be tube lighting. Cynthia Corbett requested to see what the building looked like under the overpass. She also requested some photographs of the area as well. Why was the metal mesh used in the stairwell, won’t snow and rain enter the area here? Mr. Stasak provided a visual rendering of what a pedestrian would view under the overpass. Also, a review of the pedestrian access to the parking garage even when the City Center is closed. The mesh was proposed to allow air circulation. Discussion ensued regarding making the parking structure more open, since there are no windows or glass in the stairwell. Will the mesh provide light? Some examples of how that can be accomplished would be appreciated. Tamie Ehinger, Vice Chairman, requested additional photographs from different elevations. Especially lightening up the connector. Karen Cavotta stated the new renderings do not have any glass elements. Mr. Stasak stated that could be accomplished possibly with spandrel panels. Steven Rowland, Chairman, voiced a concern as well regarding more transparency in the stair tower. Looking for more transparency. Perhaps the elevator could be glass. It still represents somewhat of a barrier. I am struggling with the connector which is an extremely urban element. I expect to see this is a city I don’t expect to see this is Saratoga. What type of lighting will be used on the very top deck of parking? Mr. Stasak stated the lighting is in the center of the parking deck. It is 16 feet in height with LED Lighting. No lighting is proposed on the outside of the building structure. Karen Cavotta asked if people in the apartments across from the parking structure will see some lighting from this parking structure? Robert West stated he was happy that the applicant took all the comments and considerations that the Board stated previously. I would side with the Board members concerning the canopy and to lighten that connection from the building to the connection point with the new building. I like the Agora concept and how that will function. I am in favor of as many parking spots as we can get. From someone who spends a great deal of time downtown, I am big user of downtown. We want to make sure the merchants get as much parking as they can. Tamie Ehinger, Vice Chairman, exited the meeting at 8:07 P.M. Karen Cavotta stated if she could interject and design this she would reduce the size to make it only a pedestrian walkway. I understand why that can’t happen. She also questioned the underneath of the connector and what does that look like. Photographs would be helpful. Steven Rowland, Chairman, asked if anyone in the audience wished to comment on this application. City of Saratoga Springs – Design Review Commission Minutes – September 16, 2015 - Page 2 of 12 Samantha Bosshart, Executive Director, Saratoga Springs Preservation Foundation. Ms. Bosshart stated a letter was submitted to the Design Review Commission on this date. This letter is almost verbatim what was submitted to the Planning Board because it outlines our concerns during the planning process. We are concerned with the height of the connector, the overall length of the connector and how it impacts the historic corridor. Our concern is somebody who is driving down Maple Avenue - are they going to feel it is an inviting corridor to drive down? Right now it feels like the back of a building in some ways. The Design Review Commission is aware of the Saratoga Springs Preservation Foundation thoughts on this structure. We realize the need for parking; that is without question. Roger Goldsmith, resident, businessman and member of the City Center Board. In regard to the connector I hear the concerns and it is an interesting architectural feature and that is not necessarily a bad thing. Don’t focus on the connector negatively. Steven Rowland, Chairman, stated there might be some opportunity for where that bridge meets the parking structure at the southwest corner and the stair elevator tower. There may be some ways to minimize the barrier and soften the impact. It is a large building no question. Some of the site things on the south side are positive. I still struggle with what will happen under that space. I would be good for us to see it. It is important. This is a very important structure to the City and the Commission. I am not comfortable saying we are ready for Mass and Scale. I have concern at the top level and how it affects the condos across the streets. Also, banners, which we haven’t discussed. Are they permanent, do they change out? How often? Are they lit? Are they legal? Many questions in this regard. Discussion of this application is continued to a future meeting. Note: The agenda was heard out of order due to lack of representation for Agenda Item #2. 2. 2015.082 CITY NAIL & SPA SIGNAGE, 46 Marion Avenue, Architectural Review of 2 wall signs within the Transect-5 Neighborhood Center District. Agent: Daniel Roicki, Adirondack Sign Company Mr. Roicki stated he is proposing two wall signs for City Nail and Spa at the Fresh Market location. These signs will be halo lit lettering in a 2 ½ box concealing all wires. This will be adhered to the building, fit between the soldier course of brick. Steven Rowland, Chairman, questioned if the height of the signage will line up with other signage in that plaza. Mr. Roicki stated the signage on the parking lot side, the base line of the sign will actually line up with the adjacent signage. However, the building actually steps up a bit at this point. Steven Rowland, Chairman, questioned the second sign where the top of the sign is at the top of the soldier course of brick. Mr. Roicki stated that sign should be moved down so that it is centered between the soldier course of brick. Some photographs will be sent to the Commission for approval of placement. Discussion ensued regarding the proper placement of the signage. Steven Rowland, Chairman, asked if there were any further questions or comments from the Commission. None heard. Steven Rowland, Chairman, asked if anyone in the audience wished to comment on this application. None heard. Karen Cavotta made a motion in the matter of the City Nail & Spa Signage, 46 Marion Avenue, that the application be approved with the following conditions: Submit a photo to confirm location and alignment with adjacent signs on the building to be approved administratively. Cynthia Corbett seconded the motion. Steven Rowland, Chairman, asked if there was any further discussion. None heard. City of Saratoga Springs – Design Review Commission Minutes – September 16, 2015 - Page 3 of 12 VOTE: Steven Rowland, Chairman, in favor; Robert West, in favor; Cynthia Corbett, in favor; Karen Cavotta, in favor; Leslie DiCarlo, in favor MOTION PASSES: 5-0 3. 2015. 083 QUALITY HEARING SIGNAGE, 8 Circular Street, Architectural Review of a wall sign within the Transect-5 Neighborhood Center District. Agent: Daniel Roicki, Adirondack Sign Company Mr. Roicki stated this is a reface of an existing sign box. There will be translucent letters on the sign box. Also, the applicant is requesting two directory panels for the existing directory sign. Steven Rowland, Chairman, stated this is a simple application. Steven Rowland, Chairman, questioned if there are any questions or comments from the Commission. None heard. Steven Rowland, Chairman, asked if anyone in the audience wished to comment on this application. None heard. Karen Cavotta made a motion in the matter of the Quality Hearing Signage, 8 Circular Street, that the application be approved as submitted. Robert West seconded the motion. Steven Rowland, Chairman, asked if there was any further discussion. None heard. VOTE: Steven Rowland, Chairman, in favor; Robert West, in favor; Cynthia Corbett, in favor; Karen Cavotta, in favor; Leslie DiCarlo, in favor MOTION PASSES: 5-0 NOTE: The agenda was heard out of order to lack of representation for Agenda Item #5. 6. 2015.062 DUPRAS RESIDENCE EXTERIOR RENOVATION, 184 Lake Avenue, Architectural Review of change in exterior materials (siding, windows) within the Urban Residential-3 District. Applicant: Pember Dupras Mr. Dupras stated he is before the Commission requesting vinyl siding and windows on the home to get it up to par with the rest of the neighborhood. Steven Rowland, Chairman, stated at the initial meeting several meetings ago we did an initial site visit prior to that meeting and our question is what materials were on the building. What appears to have happened over the years is the siding which is currently on the home was firred out on what was existing behind it. In that process window trims, corner trims and all those things were lost, which is unfortunate. In the initial discussion we had at that hearing it was determined not saying you have to go back and repair all that wood siding but we wanted to get an idea of what was behind it and what did it look like. Can we either repair which is always a possibility but if it was beyond repair, can we replicate what was there so it looks like it should look. Right now without any of those trims it looks odd and does not speak to the nature of that house. That was why we wanted to perform another site visit. To see what was underneath the siding and what is proposed. One of our concerns is what the material is under the siding, there is a possibility that it is asbestos. In my experience, and in my profession, even if you were going to fasten through an asbestos material that is an abatement issues since fibrous materials will fly through the air. That is a New York State regulation. Mr. Dupras stated he has heard several iterations regarding this. I would concede there probably is clapboard siding City of Saratoga Springs – Design Review Commission Minutes – September 16, 2015 - Page 4 of 12 under the siding. As the owner it behooves me from a financial standpoint to cover this with vinyl siding as 17 other homeowners in this area have also done. Steven Rowland, Chairman, stated no one took exception to the vinyl siding since this is in an Architectural Review District not a Historic District. Cynthia Corbett stated on the other side of East Avenue and on Lake Avenue people are investing monies to improve these properties. It could be nice if it was restored. Mr. Dupras stated this is not a historical property, there are no cornices, no features which are redeeming, maybe the rafter tails. Steven Rowland, Chairman, stated we are still not clear from what was submitted to us what is happening at the corners or around the windows, what is happening at the corners, to make it look more appropriate. Keeping the rafter tails exposed certainly the Commission is in favor of it. When we have allowed vinyl siding we have tried to use more solid materials At the corners and trims. We try to minimize or eliminate the seams in the siding. None of these details have been addressed in the application. Mr. Dupras questioned splitting the application into two sections. The front building and the rear building. Nothing I do will change the neighborhood in any way. Steven Rowland, Chairman, questioned if this application included both the front and rear buildings. The rear building has wood clapboard siding. Karen Cavotta questioned the trimming out the front façade at least. Mr. Dupras stated if with the Commission’s approval we could paint the rear building and focus on the front building. Do more decorative railings and corner boards and trim out the windows. Cynthia Corbett stated the Commission feels the applicant needs to return with the proposal. We need some simple elevations and the type of materials to be used. We need to have something concrete to send to the building department and either approve or deny. Mr. Dupras stated he will provide the information the Commission is requesting and will return before the Commission at a later date. Note: The agenda was heard out of order due to lack of representation for Agenda Item #7. 8. 2015.084 CUOMO ROOF REPLACEMENT, 106 Caroline Street, Historic Review of Roof replacement within the Urban Residential-3 District. Nicholas and Terri Cuomo Mr. Cuomo started they are proposing to redo all roofs on the home with an asphalt architectural shingle. Currently the roof is slate. We have several leaks. It has been patched several times. We are trying to have the roof replaced and completed before the winter sets in. We have tenants and it is problematic. Steven Rowland, Chairman, stated the current slate roof on the home is impressive. Mr. Cuomo stated the slate roof has reached the end of its time. City of Saratoga Springs – Design Review Commission Minutes – September 16, 2015 - Page 5 of 12 Mrs. Cuomo stated large pieces of slate are coming off the roof. Worried about tenants and neighbors. Also, the cost for the slate roof is astronomical. The color we have chosen is quarry grey. Cynthia Corbett stated the roof is a major design element of your home. You may lose some value in your home if it is not replaced in kind. Steven Rowland, Chairman, stated there are shingles out there today to mimic the appearance of slate. Something that looks more like slate. Is this the most appropriate shingle? Robert West stated additional costs may be incurred once the roof is removed for sheeting and additional materials. Steven Rowland, Chairman, asked if there were any further questions or comments from the Commission. None heard. Cynthia Corbett stated she would like to them investigate further into having the roofing repaired. She noted there are resources in the community such as the Preservation Foundation which could help find a reputable repairman. Also if it could be replaced with in kind materials. Mrs. Cuomo stated they cannot afford slate. Steven Rowland, Chairman, stated does anyone in the audience wish to comment on this application. Samantha Bosshart, Executive Director, Saratoga Springs Preservation Foundation stated a letter was submitted echoing the important characteristic design features of the roof. We would like to see the applicants retain as much as possible of the original features, following the guidelines that the City has with regard to roofing. There are cost constraints. The Commission should have documentation of the leaks and some photographs and what the options are and have they been pursued. Discussion ensued regarding roofing this home. The Commission requested the materials proposed and the current condition of the roof and the cost of the slate shingled roof versus asphalt shingle. Photographs of the current condition as well. Karen Cavotta made a motion in the matter of the application of the Cuomo Roof Replacement, 106 Caroline Street, that the application be approved with the following condition: submit to the Commission an option for asphalt shingle to better mimic slate similar to the “Berkshire” style by Owens Corning. Provide better documentation of the condition of the existing roof and interior damage. Provide photographs of the roof to document the existing roof color, materials and pattern. To provide a cost estimate for comparison in slate material for roof replacement all to be reviewed Administratively as authorized by the Commission. Robert West seconded the motion. Steven Rowland, Chairman, asked if there was any further discussion. None heard. VOTE: Steven Rowland, Chairman, in favor; Robert West, in favor; Cynthia Corbett, opposed; Karen Cavotta, in favor; Leslie DiCarlo, in favor MOTION PASSES: 4-1 9. 2015.068 PUTNAM STREET WALL ATM, 24 Caroline Street, Architectural Review of an Exterior wall mounted ATM within the Transect-6 Urban Core District. Applicant: Andi Dolinski City of Saratoga Springs – Design Review Commission Minutes – September 16, 2015 - Page 6 of 12 Ms. Dolinski stated this is the building on the corner of Maple Avenue and Caroline. This proposal is to install an ATM wall mount on the Maple Avenue side of the building. Photograph of the proposed ATM was provided. Steven Rowland, Chairman, stated the proposed ATM is 10 ½” inches high and 27” wide and 20” deep. There is concern this projects into the City’s right of way. A survey to check the property line is requested to ascertain if this is so. The ADA requires nothing protrude from the building more than 4”. Ms. Dolinski stated this was designed with the ADA guidelines. Steven Rowland, Chairman, stated at the workshop it was discussed as to why this was not installed inside the building. Ms. Dolinski stated she does not like to go into the bars to access the ATM’s. Steven Rowland, Chairman, stated the main concerns we have is this is in a contributing building in the National Historic District. How do we treat this as sign? How will it be mounted? When we attach things to historic building we suggest this be mounted into the mortar joints. The City Right of Way is an issue. 20” from the wall questioned the ADA requirements. This would need to be investigated prior to any further action being taken on this application. Steven Rowland, Chairman, asked if there were any further questions or comments from the Commission. None heard. Steven Rowland, Chairman, stated does anyone in the audience wish to comment on this application. None heard. This application will be tabled this evening awaiting further information from the applicant. 10. 2015.059 TROJANSKI EAST AVENUE CONDOS, Corner East & Excelsior Avenues, Architectural Review of a new 2-unit condo building within the Transect-5 Neighborhood Center District. 11. 2015.060 TROJANSKI EAST AVENUE CONDOS, Corner East & Excelsior Avenues, Architectural Review of construction of 3 new apartment buildings within the Transect-5 Neighborhood Center District. Applicant: Dave Trojanski, Builder Agent: Darren Ribulous, Cotler Architecture Mr. Ribulous provided a visual presentation to the Commission. A review of materials was provided as well as reviewing all elevations. Mr. Ribulous reviewed the color choice for this project as well as type of materials. Fiber cement siding is proposed with cedar shakes in the gables. Cultured stone for the base materials. Both buildings follow the same theme. There will be timber beams and brackets in certain areas. Base will be stone. 6,000 square feet of commercial. Upper two floors will be residential. The condo buildings will have different materials on the façade. Fiber cement shakes in the gables. The body of the building will be fiber cement siding. Reverse gables to break up the roof line. False dormers to also break up the roof line. Hip type roof. Balconies will be cantilevered with similar timber bracket details. Color combinations were presented. Karen Cavotta questioned why the windows do not align on the exterior. It is not critical but a little awkward. Steven Rowland, Chairman, stated the windows would be more appropriate if they were aligned. If it works with the floor plan, I would appear more appropriate aligned. Robert West questioned the volume of the gables in the south building in the front and the fact that they seem small in comparison to the building. Discussion ensued regarding that side of the building and a step in the building which was not reflected in the other rendering. Cynthia Corbett questioned the location of the parking on the street. City of Saratoga Springs – Design Review Commission Minutes – September 16, 2015 - Page 7 of 12 Bradley Birge, Administrator, Planning and Economic Development stated there is an easement from the City of Saratoga Springs this allows for the parking in between the two buildings. There is also parking on the street which is promoted. Steven Rowland, Chairman, we will now move to the north building. Bradley Birge, Administrator, Planning and Economic Development stated the Commission was concerned regarding the rhythm of the doorways and windows on the first floor. If signage will be legible under the overhangs. Roof lines and the small gables. Robert West questioned the use of the timber on the second building. There are no other wooden features on the buildings. Discussion ensued regarding mechanicals; question the details concerning the plumbing vents, air conditioning units, gas meters and dumpster location. Steven Rowland, Chairman, stated the big concern was the grade change of the second building. I believe the mass and scale of the buildings is certainly appropriate. Proportions are appropriate. This is not a bad transition. When you return we will discuss the penetrations, gas and electric meter bank locations, venting. Light fixtures, signage and landscaping will need to be discussed at a later date. Dave Carr, LA Group stated there will be wheel outs and no dumpsters due to more office type uses. Steven Rowland, Chairman, asked if there were any further questions or comments from the Commission. None heard. Steven Rowland, Chairman, stated does anyone in the audience wish to comment on this application. None heard. Robert West made a motion in the matter of the Trojanski East Avenue Condos, Corner of East and Excelsior Avenues be approved for Mass and Scale Only. The applicant will return for materials, penetrations, gas and electrical details. Cynthia Corbett seconded the motion. Steven Rowland, Chairman, asked if there was any further discussion. None heard. VOTE: Steven Rowland, Chairman, in favor; Robert West, in favor; Cynthia Corbett, in favor; Karen Cavotta, in favor; Leslie DiCarlo, in favor MOTION PASSES: 5-0 Robert West made a motion in the matter of the Trojanski Mixed Use Building, Corner of East and Excelsior Avenues be approved for Mass and Scale Only. The applicant will return for materials, penetrations, roof details, building penetration gas and electrical locations. Karen Cavotta seconded the motion. Steven Rowland, Chairman, asked if there was any further discussion. None heard. VOTE: Steven Rowland, Chairman, in favor; Robert West, in favor; Cynthia Corbett, in favor; Karen Cavotta, in favor; Leslie DiCarlo, in favor MOTION PASSES: 5-0 12. 2015.055 EXCELSIOR PARK PHASE 2, Excelsior Avenue & Whistler Court, Architectural Review of Construction of 3 new apartment buildings within the Transect-5 Neighborhood Center District. City of Saratoga Springs – Design Review Commission Minutes – September 16, 2015 - Page 8 of 12 Applicants: Peter Rosecrans, Burns Management; John Witt, Witt Construction Agent: Dominick Ranieri, Dominick Ranieri Architects, Alison Parks, Dave Carr, LA Group Mr. Ranieri stated the applicant is before the Commission this evening for Mass and Scale approval, as well as materials. A visual presentation was provided by Mr. Ranieri. Three buildings on one site. We have received some good comments and suggestions and have incorporated some of these in the design. We will walk through what has been changed. The basic plans have not changed. The ground floor is the parking garage for all the units. Handicap parking inside and outside. We have broken the side entrance doors to two separate doors. Trash room in each building no trash outdoors. Smaller wheel outs. We have some sloping variations with all three of the buildings. All exiting requirements were reviewed on all the buildings. Mr. Ranieri reviewed the unit types and locations. Roof plans were reviewed for the Commission. All condenser units will be on the roof and will not be visible. Roof penetrations and venting are also on the roof except for a few on the façade, which will be painted out to match. Building positioning was reviewed with City staff and was acceptable meeting the City standards. The remaining two buildings are mirror images of each other with garages facing each other. We used a modern brick, a sample was provided to the Commission, with metal railing and porch balconies. Materials were provided to the Commission for their review. There is a swale between the hotel and these buildings. The area between is approximately 60 feet. We will plant trees in this area to help buffer headlights. Balconies will be provided with black aluminum railings which were provided to the Commission for their review. The last building on the west side is seen up and down Excelsior Avenue. This is very much in view until further development. In meeting with staff we decided to make this a common area in this area, with benches and helped to break up the façade. A rendering was provided showing this area. A limestone will be used on the base and high quality smooth vinyl will be used on the main structure. Vinyl windows painted black. All the color schemes blend together. Lighting on the building will be LED small high hats in the canopy. Saratoga Lamps throughout the sidewalks. We did receive subdivision and site plan approval from the Planning Board. Steven Rowland, Chairman, stated mass and scale and height is appropriate for what is currently going on this area. One concern that I noticed relates to the materials. Can you provide an idea concerning height from grade to the top. Mr. Ranieri stated at the roof line we are under the height requirements, approximately 45 feet to the highest point. Discussion ensued regarding the siding materials and size of the reveal, and the corner boards. Getting away from the seams in the siding is encouraged. Steven Rowland, Chairman, asked if there were any further questions or comments from the Commission. None heard. Steven Rowland, Chairman, stated does anyone in the audience wish to comment on this application. None heard. Karen Cavotta made a motion in the matter of the Excelsior Park Phase 2 – Three Apartment Buildings, Excelsior Avenue and Whistler Court be approved with the following condition: for Mass and Scale only with permit approval. The applicant will return for materials, details and review. Robert West seconded the motion. Steven Rowland, Chairman, asked if there was any further discussion. None heard. VOTE: Steven Rowland, Chairman, in favor; Robert West, in favor; Cynthia Corbett, in favor; Karen Cavotta, in favor; Leslie DiCarlo, in favor MOTION PASSES: 5-0 13. 2014.109 RITE AID NEW RECONSTRUCTION/EXPANSION, 90 West Avenue/242 Washington Street, Architectural Review of the reconstruction/expansion of the commercial building within the Transect-5 City of Saratoga Springs – Design Review Commission Minutes – September 16, 2015 - Page 9 of 12  Neighborhood Center District. Applicant: Rite Aid Corporation Agents: Matthew J. Jones, Alex Beso, Jones Firm; Jaclyn Hakes, MJ Engineering; Bruce Hamilton, Bruce Hamilton Architecture; David Reif, National Retail Properties; John Shackelford, Real Estate Director, Rite Aid Mr. Jones stated the applicants were before this Board in May. He provided a review of the site along with an aerial slideshow and review of the site plan. Jaclyn Hakes, MJ Engineering reviewed the site. The building has been moved closer to the corner of the intersection. The western ingress and egress is basically the same location as it currently is. The northern ingress and egress is at the location of the shared access between the carwash and the Adirondack Tire. That shared access will continue. From circulation standpoint the drive thru is on the east side of the building. We are trying to preserve the streetscape which exists along West Avenue. The building is shifted a bit to the east. The southwest corner of the building that will be squared off and you will see what we are proposing moving forward. Mr. Hamilton stated we have squared off the corner, so we have doors to be accessed off the parking as well as the West Avenue side. We have clear glass on the lower three windows as well as the transom glass which will allow you to see into the store. I have also added glass in these dormers which will light up in the evening. We took away the dark spandrel glass and added landscaping. Mr. Schackelford stated the Commission discussed a second entrance into the store. This information was taken back to the management and the solution they came up with is what Bruce has demonstrated. We have taken the second entrance and turned it at an angle. Two entrances with a common vestibule. One entrance facing to the parking lot south and the other to the west or West Avenue. It would be visible for pedestrians walking along West and Washington. This is being proposed for an operational situation where we can control one entrance. Two entrances leads into higher shrinkage theft issues, and requires more personnel to be in the front of the store. Mr. Reif stated we are a publicly traded retail investment trust on the New York Stock Exchange. We have 2200 properties in 47 states. We are long term holders. We keep growing and growing at a bigger rate. Steven Rowland, Chairman, stated the West Avenue modification to the southwest corner is a minor step in the right direction. A lot of our discussion the last time was what was happening on Washington Street. You have added some glass that you can actually see through which is an improvement, but we did speak a lot and we understand from the concerns from a security standpoint about another entrance over there. The goal in that district is to encourage that pedestrian interaction. To me there has been some minor changes made but I do not see that as a pedestrian interface. Without some street entrance or presence there that still concerns me. I have to believe that there are two entrances at other stores. I was hoping if nothing was going to happen some design attempts of why it wouldn’t work. I am a little disappointed that we are not seeing a little more on the street interface. I believe there will be pedestrian traffic. I believe we will see more of it along West Avenue due to the development in that area. I was hopeful we would see more happening on the West Avenue façade. Mr. Schackelford stated he sat for about 1 ½ hours and only saw about 6 pedestrians that walked by. I don’t see that changing in the near future. You have a liquor store across the street, two gas stations, automobile service businesses and I did not see the pedestrian traffic you spoke about. Steven Rowland, Chairman, stated the district is trying to encourage more pedestrian traffic. Some other developments happening to the east and is adding to that. There is a senior living area, new apartments. Karen Cavotta stated we understand the security aspect, but I am disappointed if that can’t happen, why wasn’t more offered to make it more pedestrian friendly. I know there has been some artificial ornamentation put on that building, City of Saratoga Springs – Design Review Commission Minutes – September 16, 2015 - Page 10 of 12 it does not even reflect what is going on inside the building. The addition of glass is good. But putting some pilasters in places that don’t line up with what is going on inside and putting dormers in places that don’t lineup is not making me feel like I have any idea of what is going on behind that wall. If there were places in the building recessed a bit, perhaps more undulation along it I would feel less like I am walking along the back of a building until I got to the front of the building. I know we would really like an entrance here but if we can’t get one what we would really like to see is how can we make this building feel like I am not looking at the back of it. Right now to me it doesn’t feel like anything more than a flat building with stuff stuck on it. I think it could be more than that. There has been a lot of time and energy spent on other areas of the building, but this whole side feels like an afterthought. Maybe you need to figure out how to make this building have more character, a big box with the corner cut off. This is an important façade. Steven Rowland, Chairman, stated an example we offered the last time was the Price Chopper Limited at Railroad Place. When the developer was first before us, we really spoke a lot about the same things we are speaking about with you. The super market came back to us stating that is not how we set up our markets. We told them we have to find a way to speak to the street. Eventually, they threw away their standard retail floor designs and came up with a new floor design which they became excited about. They turned all their isles perpendicular to the street and the entire side is glass. It went completely against their standards. What we were hoping for is that Rite Aid would have said how can we make this work and think outside of the box. I echo what Karen said. It does not speak at all to what is happening in the building. Nothing helps to bring the building to the people on the street. I foresee things changing in this area. This building will be here for a long time. We are trying to protect what happens in the long term. I do not believe this speaks to what the zoning ordinance is trying to accomplish in that location. Mr. Jones stated this is a mix and overwhelming traffic in that area is vehicular. This is a T-5 zone which tries to make this pedestrian friendly. I believe 95% of the people will access the door where it is currently proposed. Robert West stated we are struggling with the layout of the dormers and how they are placed, they seem pretty random. Steven Rowland, Chairman, stated are there more opportunities to rethink what happens inside. Get more glass and visual interaction of what is going on in the space inside and what is going on in the space outside. Was any thought given to changing the floor plan layout, similar to Price Chopper. They are in a location which has become very pedestrian. As Karen said, if we can’t get an entrance or an exit there what can we do there to help the façade relate to the street, rather a very long building on a well, traveled street. Bradley Birge, Administrator, Planning and Economic Development stated as you are aware the Transect zones are designed to be development and redevelopment areas. They are designed to create and recreate very specifically, strong streetscapes. What the Commission and the Planning Board does is to try to encourage and and maintain the opportunity to create just that. Particularly, streetscapes are critical. Within the structures themselves. entrances as the main focal points for the building are critical. What you have here is one primary entrance on the north side of your secondary length of your structure. Functionally your primary entrance but for the intents and purposes you have a corner that has largely visible entrances to the City, but also along the entire side of the building with no interaction with that. Mr. Hamilton disagreed with the comments from the Commission. Discussion ensued between the Commission and the applicant’s architect concerning design and style. Mr. Jones asked what could he take away from this conversation. Steven Rowland, Chairman, stated look at what is happening inside to the façade. The things which are happening on the inside of this building currently are turning its back away from the street. There is no opportunity for flow of space from the inside to the outside. Unless there is some thought as to what can we do to change this there is no way to change the façade work better with the street. I think that is what I am looking at. If it is not an entrance than what can it be? Get more interaction into that long façade. This is a busy vehicular area. City of Saratoga Springs – Design Review Commission Minutes – September 16, 2015 - Page 11 of 12 Karen Cavotta stated Fresh Market did use some creative ways to introduce light and flow of space with the use of transoms. Steven Rowland, Chairman, stated we had a lot of this same discussion here back in May. To be perfectly frank I am disappointed that what we got was a few transom windows that are clear and we moved two walls ten feet to get two entrances over there. I believe we had a lot more discussion about what we were trying to accomplish there on the street and I don’t see a lot of effort. I am disappointed in that. I thought we made it pretty clear what we were trying to accomplish. We don’t know the answer that is not our job. Our job is to try and see what is going to be here for the next twenty or thirty years. Our job is to try and convey that the importance of what we are trying to see happen there. If we failed in May I don’t think we did I am just disappointed in the level of response that came out of it from May until now. These are changes that could have happened in a week. It begs the question how much you really want to try to accommodate these things. Mr. Jones stated he will not ask the Board to vote on this tonight. We will table the application. Steven Rowland, Chairman, stated we encourage people to come back with sketch ideas, two or three ideas to kick some things around. What comes out of these discussions gives you a design direction to proceed with. I would encourage you to do this. We are looking for a common path to see this happen. Thank you for your patience. UPCOMING WORKSHOPS/MEETINGS: Design Review Commission caravan, Tuesday, October 19, 2015 at 5:00 P.M. Design Review Commission workshop, Tuesday, October 19, 2015 at 6:00 P.M. Design Review Commission Meeting, Wednesday, October 21, 2015 at 7:00 P.M. AGENDA ITEMS TABLED FOR THIS EVENING: 1. 2015.065 LUKOIL CANOPY BAND, 54 Church Street, Architectural Review of a canopy band Within the Transect-6 Urban Core District. 14. 2015.081 WANG CARPORT, 18 Marion Avenue, Architectural Review of a new 20’x20’ carport within the Urban Residential-2 District. 14. 2013.069 KLEIN CARRIAGE HOUSE ROOF REPLACEMENT, 722 North Broadway, Historic Review of a Roof replacement to an existing building within the Urban Residential-1 District. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: The approval of meeting minutes was deferred to the October 21, 2015 meeting. MOTION TO ADJOURN: There being no further business to discuss Steven Rowland, Chairman, adjourned the meeting at 12:25 P.M. Respectfully submitted, Diane M. Buzanowski Recording Secretary APPROVED 6/15/16 City of Saratoga Springs – Design Review Commission Minutes – September 16, 2015 - Page 12 of 12