Board of Zoning Appeals (BZA)

Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals November 6, 2024 In Attendance: Josh Fedor, Jim Hurst, Steve Mundy Absent: Kathi Postlewait, Jocelyn Hinshaw Staff attending: Mike Dale, Jonathan Smith, Dan Taylor, Attorney Fedor Call to order the November 6, 2024 BZA meeting. We will start with the Pledge of Allegiance please. All Pledge of Allegiance Fedor Let’s see – Mike, will you take roll please? Dale Kathi Postlethwait? [No response] Josh Fedor? Fedor Present. Dale Jocelyn Hinshaw? [No response] Steve Mundy? Mundy Present. Dale Jim Hurst? Hurst Present. Dale Three present, two absent. Fedor With, with that, with just being three of us up here it needs to be a full three, three approvals. Just so everyone knows if they want to file for a continuance I think we’re open to that with being a little short tonight. Just want to let everybody have the option of they’re, if they want to so. Moving on to approval of the minutes. Everyone got a copy of the minutes from the last meeting. Is there a motion to approve? Hurst So moved. Fedor Is there a second? Mundy Second. Fedor And, all in favor? All Aye. Page 1 of 28 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals November 6, 2024 Fedor All opposed? [No response] Approval of the minutes is approved. And moving on to continuances – Docket 2024-35-DSV, Brant Hile, 480 Isenhour Hills Drive, Zionsville, Indiana. Development Standards Variance pursuant to Section 194.047(C)(5) to exceed the maximum lot coverage in the Single-Family Resident (R-SF-2) zoning district. Jonathan, are you taking that one? Smith I can. It’s just a withdrawal. Fedor Oh I’m sorry – it’s a withdrawal. Smith Yeah for this one long story short – I did the math incorrectly and so he doesn’t need it. Fedor Okay. Smith So we’re just going to allow him to withdraw and he’s, I think, already started his permits so no problem. Fedor Do we need to suspend the rules to do that? Taylor No, just a motion to allow the withdrawal. Fedor Yeah. Do I have a motion to? Hurst I, I move that we permit the withdrawal of 2024-35-DSV. Mundy Second. Fedor All in favor? All Aye. Fedor All opposed? [No response] Motion passes. Moving on to New Business – Docket 2024-41-DSV, Casey Good, 8662 East 200 South, Zionsville, Indiana 46077. Development Standards Variance pursuant to Section 194.082 to exceed the 3:1 lot depth-to-width radio in the Rural Single Family and Two-Family Residential zoning district. Jonathan, do you want to take that one? Smith Yeah so, this gentleman emailed me earlier today. Long story short – he received an unfavorable staff recommendation but he believes there’s information out there that he could put together, I think, with some of his neighbors or something. It’s his first continuance request so we’re required to approve it. Couple that with Page 2 of 28 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals November 6, 2024 the fact that he may be able to present information that changes our opinion, we can continue this or we should continue this till December. Fedor Is there any discussion? If not, is there a motion to move this to the December 4th meeting? Mundy I move to continue Docket 2024-41-DSV to the December – Fedor 4th. Mundy What’s the date in December? 4th? December 4th meeting. Fedor Is there a second? Hurst Second. Fedor All in favor? All Aye. Fedor All opposed? [No response] Motion passes. Moving on Docket 2024-44-DSV, Paul Kite, 320 South Fourth Street, Zionsville, Indiana 46077. Development Standard Variance pursuant to Section 194.052 to reduce the side yard setback in the Urban Village Resident, Residential zoning district. Jonathan, do you have a staff report? Smith Yes sir. So this is, this has been around for a minute in our office. Various, various levels of, of code enforcement. This petition, we’re trying to get this resolved, right, and approval and granting of this variance will get this item resolved and hopefully bring closure to this folder and this, this, the owner. What you’re looking at on my screen, which I can try to zoom in here, is the current conditions for the driveway. You’ll notice it’s busted up, broken up concrete essentially. So what happened originally, this property is in the Village and it had a preexisting gravel driveway in a, I don’t want to say exact location because it may be off a few inches here on either side but a very similar location there was a gravel driveway and a few years ago the Town of Zionsville came through and did work in our right-of-way, essentially paved the culvert and, and different things like that and so concrete was poured in front of this home and when that concrete was poured by the Town of Zionsville in our right-of-way, the property owner seized the opportunity to go ahead and pave the gravel, the existing gravel driveway. So it went from an existing gravel driveway to a paved driveway and what happened when she did that was she lost her, what we call her legal nonconforming status which means according to the Zoning Ordinance, driveways in the Village have to be at least 5 feet from the property line and so by improving, by paving the gravel drive, she lost her legal nonconforming status and through a number of phone calls and different things, landed with code compliance and from that point on it’s kind of been just an unresolved matter for Page 3 of 28 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals November 6, 2024 several years in our office and, like I said, various points of please get this done, various letters. We thought originally it was busted up and removed and compliant. Obviously, the stone pavers or the busted up concrete was put back, as you can see. So, just, just a bunch of different things that’s happened over the span of a few years. This request is to put resolution to this petition. Staff supports the request, really for the fact that it’s a preexisting driveway and all she did was pave it. So we support reducing that. And if you look at other driveways in the Village, there are other driveways that are closer to that. We also believe it’s unreasonable, right? If you look at the – let me go to the picture at the top. If you look at this home from the front of the home, two things: If you scoot this over 5 feet, you’re gonna probably be right in front of the entrance to the door, or at least close to it and you’re likely to have to cut down that tree. It seems unreasonable to make the person park on the street, just not allow them to have a parking space. So staff when we took all these into consideration coupled with the fact that that driveway has been in that spot for many years, the only change was that it was paved, staff is inclined to support the, the request to grant the variance. If you have any specific questions related to the case, I’m happy to answer them. I know Suzanne is here as well. She’s also knowledgeable on the case so if y’all have any questions, let me know. Mundy This may be a question for the petitioner but there was a mention of a complaint from a neighbor that the driveway, the, the paved driveway may have been encroaching onto their lot. Has that been substantiated or? Smith So the, the, there’s two problems – well, let me first off by say this and Suzanne told me this today. The portion of the driveway that was alleged to be on the neighbor’s side of the property line, that portion I was told has been removed. But here’s the other problem that we get into and I don’t know – this might be an attorney question. I don’t know the solution but essentially each neighbor – we had two surveyors essentially. We had third-party surveyors come out and each party, I guess, had one and we got two different markers. So, there’s not like a crystal-clear survey that I could say well, here’s your property line and yes, this is definitively on it. And when you have that type of third-party ambiguity right, it’s hard to say. And I, I, I don’t – to me I feel like I want to say it’s a civil issue. I don’t know that, I’m not an attorney. All I know is there is a resolution to it and the resolution is to get a variance to reduce the setback to 0 and if there is an encroachment onto a person’s property, that’s between them and the property owner. That’s a civil matter. So from a town standpoint, from a code compliance standpoint, we can improve this situation by taking ourselves out of it, right? Remove the town from the conversation and if there is any disagreement, that’s between the neighbors. I’ve been told that it’s been removed off of the property but I don’t have the ability to go out there and stake it and definitively shoot a line on where the property line is at and put a post in the ground and prove it but I’m inclined, I have not heard from the property owner, the other adjoining property owner, so I’m inclined to believe the petitioner as it relates to it being off the property line or off the neighbor’s property but I can’t prove that. Does that and I hope that answers your question. That’s – Mundy It, it did. We don’t have any evidence one way or the other essentially. Page 4 of 28 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals November 6, 2024 Smith Yeah, the best that I can do is get a resolution to the code enforcement issue which is the violation, the, the set, the encroachment, the setback encroachment. If we can bring a resolution to that then it becomes a civil issue for two property owners to hash out where their property line is at which I don’t think that’s the town’s place to be in the middle of that so. Hurst So I, I’m pretty confident I’m right in this – we’re not, any action we might take tonight in favor of this petition, we’re not saying that they can have their drive exactly where it is, we’re just saying they don’t have to have a 5-foot setback – Smith Yeah, yeah. Hurst From the property line? Smith So and they – Hurst So we’re, we’re not entitling a driveway on somebody, potentially on someone else’s property – Smith Yeah. Hurst That is not the action we’re taking. Smith All you’re doing is reducing the standard right now in the Zoning Ordinance is that driveways have to adhere to a 5-foot side yard setback. By granting this variance, you’re approving that side yard setback number to be reduced from 5 to 0. That’s all you’re approving. Hurst Yeah, I understand. Thank you. Fedor Any other questions for staff? Is the petitioner present? Baker Good evening. Suzanne Baker, 10 West Market Street, Indianapolis 46204. Myself and Matt Price are representing Paul Kite who is here this evening. His son is actually the one who rents 320 South Fourth Street and the owner is Shelda Groover. I think Mr. Smith did a nice job presenting. Appreciate the detail in the staff report because I know this has kinda been longstanding. Again, the variance request is to reduce the side yard setback to an existing, the existing driveway to 0 feet. Just a little bit of history – Ms. Groover purchased the property in 1994 and completely remodeled it in 2008. From the records, the driveway location was at least in its current configuration since 2007 but likely probably dating back to the ‘80s when it was originally constructed. Again, it was a legal nonconforming driveway until 2018. In 2012, DPW repaved Fourth Street and expanded the drive cut on the subject property’s driveway. Again, this was all done in the town’s right-of-way and if you see, you see the two photos you can see in 2007 the old residence with the gravel driveway and then at the bottom the driveway as it is today and you can see kind of how that curb cut expanded there. Page 5 of 28 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals November 6, 2024 So then in 2018, Ms. Groover installed a concrete drive, driveway pad generally in the same location as the gravel drive unaware that this by improving it was removing the legal nonconformity and it’s also, to Mr. Mundy’s point, it’s our understanding that the driveway is currently on Ms., Ms. Groover’s property today. It’s not encroaching on the neighbors. I think Mr. Kite also spoke to the neighbor earlier this week and they’re in agreement that the driveway is off the property and haven’t had any conversation or remonstrance knowing otherwise. So with that said, we respectfully request approval tonight due to the fact this is an existing driveway, it would correct a zoning violation. Regarding the hardship, the lot is relatively small to begin with for the Village. I think it’s 5,000 square feet and it only has 30 feet of frontage. By having to comply with the 5-foot setback as Mr. Smith mentioned, it would have to be moved over to the center of the property causing egress issues possibly with the current porch and honestly would probably just look funny and the tree would likely have to be removed. On top of that, possibly having to relocate, remove the existing curb cut that’s in the right-of-way currently. One last thing I would say, if approved, we would also like to ask that the owner would be allowed to repave or just do traditional maintenance on the, the driveway as long as it’s not increased. And with that said, I’m happy to – Paul or myself are happy to answer any questions you may have. Fedor Any questions for the petitioner? Hurst I don’t think I have any for the petitioner except that the petitioner has requested that they be able to pave or re-concrete or all that – I don’t see anything in the action that we might take tonight that would prevent that if this is approved. Would you agree Dan? Taylor Yeah, I’d like Jonathan to weigh in but yeah, I think they have a right to maintain their drive once if, if they resolve this issue. Smith Yeah. Taylor Because they’ll no longer try to maintain a legal nonconforming status right? Smith Yeah, the yeah. So if you approve this, it will no longer be a legal nonconforming, it’ll be conforming, right? So if you approve the variance, there’s nothing preventing them from paving it. They will have the permission that they need to reduce the driveway side yard setback to 0 and then they can improve it however they want. Yeah, so I have no problem with that. Hurst I don’t have anything further. Fedor Any other questions for the petitioner? Are there any members of the public who would like to speak on this petition? Seeing none, is there any discussion on this? I mean, it seems pretty – I, I, I can see staff’s position on this completely. Hurst Absolutely. I think there’s unnecessary hardship requiring them to do anything different. Page 6 of 28 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals November 6, 2024 Fedor Uh huh. If there’s nothing else I’ll look for a motion then. Hurst I move that Docket 2024-44-DSV, Development Standards Variance to reduce the south side yard setback requirement to 0 for a property at 320 South Fourth Street be approved as presented and described based on the findings in the staff report and staff recommendations, submitted Findings of Fact, substantial compliance with the submitted site plans and the evidence presented during the public hearing. Fedor Is there a second? Mundy Second. Fedor All in favor? All Aye. Taylor You have to do a roll call. Fedor I’m sorry, I’m sorry – we need to do a roll call. Dale Josh Fedor? Fedor Aye. Dale Jim Hurst? Hurst Aye. Dale Steve Mundy? Mundy Aye. Dale All approved. Fedor Congratulations. Kite Thanks guys. Fedor Thank you. Mundy Thank you. Fedor Moving forward – Docket 2024-43-DSV, Troy Roberson, 3511 Willow Road, Zionsville, Indiana (Lot 2). Development Standards Variance pursuant to Section 194.082 at Table 3 to eliminate the road, required road frontage and allow for a gated entrance to Willow Road in the Rural Single and Two-Family Residential (R-2) zoning district. Jonathan, do you have a staff report? Smith Uhh, yeah. So, if we can pull my map up on the screen. So if you look at the TVs or your screens, you’ll see the area that is involved with these petitions. I guess I Page 7 of 28 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals November 6, 2024 could start off by saying the rest of the agenda items – the next four petitions are all going to be similar discussions and the reason for that is all four of the next petitions are located behind and off of Willow Road which is identified here as Willow Road but it’s really an access easement and so the need for this request stems from one singular gate blocking off the access easement and to help on an administrative side of things to where we have one variance approval or denial for each address, we split it into four different petitions but the next four conversations that we have is all going to be about the same gate crossing the same easement, okay? So, let’s get to the petitions. Our Zoning Ordinance gives us clear standards for road frontage. Long story short, it’s kind of vague in relation to access easements, okay? This property and the access easement was created under the jurisdiction of Boone County and so we inherited it not with a road but with an access easement and the question that originally started this conversation was the parcels in the back, right? Do the parcels in the back have the standard that we classified as road frontage, right? Do they have road frontage? And we brought that to Mike Dale and we weighed the standard in the Zoning Ordinance that said you have to have 45 foot of road frontage. In order for these parcels in the back to have 45 foot of road frontage, we had to come to a conclusion that the access easement that was created while it was under the jurisdiction of Boone County, that access easement had to qualify as road frontage otherwise, these parcels were landlocked and you didn’t have access to road frontage. So long story short, Mike Dale, we made a determination a few months ago that there are minimum standards but as long as an access easement meets those minimum standards then it qualifies as road frontage, right? And one of those minimum standards for access easements to qualify as road frontage you have to have it open, it has to be open and available, right? So meaning the public has to be able to drive though just like any other normal public road. The problem with this particular project is when you block the road, when you put a gate up you eliminate that standard, right? So it’s no longer open and accessible, it’s blocked. That created the need for these parcels to have a variance, right? The other thing I want to notate is there is a preexisting gate here, right? So prior to this request, there is already an existing gate and that gate is classified I guess as legal nonconforming, right? So if you deny this request, it’s not like we’re going to go out and knock down the existing gate that’s there. It’s just nothing will change, right? What the petitioner is trying to do if you see on the map this is going to be an estimate but where my mouse is at just past the curve is the current location of the gate and so what happens inevitably is people drive along this road and they go straight not realizing that it’s a private easement and also not seeing the gated entrance right past this curve and they get on that easement and then surprise, their pathway is blocked. What the petitioner is wanting to do, if this variance is approved, is move this gate a little bit closer up to the front to where it’s visible, right? The problem, again, with it being classified as a legal nonconforming structure is if you move the gate you move it, you lose your legal nonconforming status, right? So if you were to move the gate and this thing’s denied, then your gate is gone, right? So the goal is to get approval of this variance request which staff supports based off of: A) The preexisting easement, right? The vagueness in Page 8 of 28 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals November 6, 2024 our Zoning Ordinance related to access easements, right? And the standards that we set in order to make this access easement a road, right? We see these things as unnecessary hardship through no fault of the petitioner’s, right? These things were created while they were under the jurisdiction of Boone County. All they’re trying to do as petitioners is relocate this gate in a position that’s more visible and it’s better for the public. They can’t do that unless y’all approve this variance. So, staff supports the request. We think there is hardship in this petition based off of the things that we’ve listed in our staff report. I’m happy to answer any questions you have but that, that’s the request in a summary. Back to you. Fedor Is there any questions for staff right now or? Mundy There, I think there are three properties all listed at 3511. Is that because they don’t have a – Smith So here’s the unique thing – this kinda gets back to a Plan Commission problem or I guess a Plan Commission item. The Subdivision Control Ordinance dictates subdivisions, right? Makes sense. There is an exemption in the Subdivision Control Ordinance, a one-time lot split exemption, right? So if your property qualifies for this exemption, then you don’t go through the standard Subdivision Control process. The Subdivision Control Ordinance and that whole process that y’all see at Plan Commission pretty routinely, that process is where we assign addresses, right? But if you qualify for that exemption, you don’t go through the process and, therefore, you don’t get involved with the addressing, right? This property qualified for that one-time lot split exemption and I suspect, right, that there will be conversations when they come to apply for a building permit for the two undeveloped lots, whenever those are developed I suspect there will be conversations about not having the same address on each parcel, we’ve just not reached that point yet because these parcels qualified for the lot split exemption and didn’t go through the whole Plan Commission subdivision review process. Fedor Any other questions for staff at this time? If not, we’ll move on to the petitioner. Is the petitioner present? Andreoli Thank you Mr. President. For the record, Mike Andreoli, 1393 West Oak Street. I represent Troy Roberson along with the other three landowners of lots that would be served by this, this private drive and, in fact, have been served by this private drive for many, many, many years. In answer to Mr. Mundy’s question – this will not need to be platted. All of these lots preexisted 2000 and if they had not preexisted 2000 and they wanted to do a lot split, for instance, if, if they had gotten one lot split after 2000 and they wanted to do another one, they wouldn’t be entitled to do that without a formal filing of a plat. All these lots were, were platted or were parceled out back in the 1990s, some even earlier and so they, they preexisted the, the 2000 ordinance that, that was the kind of the requirement of what, what lots were at that particular time and whether you were entitled to a lot split after that. If you’d already got one after that, you weren’t entitled to another one unless you go ahead and actually plat the development. So this would not need to be platted. Nevertheless, Mike and, and Jonathan have done quite a bit of work with regard to, in working with us to try to understand how this has all come about. I have a Page 9 of 28 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals November 6, 2024 little history with this because I represented Mark Sanders when he did the Willow and Willow Ridge development out there and Willow Road was a road that was actually a road in the county that existed that went over Eagle Creek and essentially exited from Boone County to the intersection of Little Eagle Creek Road and 141st Street. That’s where it exited and came out. Years ago the, the bridge was failing and the county decided that they, they would not be interested in replacing that. It had very little traffic. It was, the roadway was more like a driveway than it was a, a gravel road back at that time. It really wasn’t a substantial roadway. They never thought it would be a real connector in terms of an east-west connector between Zionsville and Carmel so they decided that they would not replace the bridge. When Mark Sanders came along with his private estate and with the Willow Ridge development, we went in and, and sought vacation of that and we vacated the road formally with the Boone County Commissioners from Willow, Willow Avenue by Austin Oaks all the way to Eagle Creek. Then some years later, the, the, since it was a road that, a little drive that went to nowhere, the Commissioners went in and vacated the rest of it from 141st and its intersection with Little Eagle Creek on up to the bridge to the, to the east side of the bridge. So the entire road then had been vacated and all of that had been served by a private, private access during that, during that period of time. The gate was put there by the Schmidts who owned it prior to Mr. Ballard and, and, and his partner and it had been there for years. What was happening is Mr. Roberson finally brought the 24 acres which consisted of a, the acreage at the front and then the acreage at the back and he split that as he was entitled to do into, into a total of three lots now. The front part has been sold to the Anne Carlsson Trust. That’s a, that’s a parcel that’s right adjacent to the road. Mr. Roberson has the parcel right next to it on the south and then the larger parcel all the way in the very, very back and Mr. Ballard and his partner have the 6 acres that are immediately adjacent to Eagle Creek to the, to the west. What was happening is people were getting curious and trying to come down or figure out where that road went and it would come down there and then the gate is around the corner so you couldn’t see the gate so they’d start down the road and get down there and then they’d have to back out or try to get in the driveway and this, that and the other so when Mr. Roberson bought the property and, and Ms. Carlsson bought the 2 acres and the house up front, they all the four owners got together and decided look, why don’t we just put a gate up at the very front of it. Of course the gate will be accessible to emergency, ambulance, all of those types of things. We have a number of gated areas and subdivisions in Zionsville and we make those all available to all the public services and those types of things and there’d be a source code that would be able to be utilized to be able to go ahead and, and, and get in there and by putting a brand-new gate up at the front, that will eliminate people being able to drive back, getting around the corner and then having to back out in, in limited space back there. One other thing I might mention to you – we received a phone call from the neighbor that is on the northwest corner of 141st Street and Little Eagle Creek, Bret and Mary Skipper, and I’ve known them for a number of years, and they had utilized that drive in the past to, to have a propane truck back down and they have a buried propane tank right by a shed just on the other side of their fence. Page 10 of 28 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals November 6, 2024 They don’t own any part of the road but they’ve used that in conjunction with permission by the landowners out there for years and, and, of course, the Mr. Roberson, Dr. Roberson and, and the others will have no problem with that and we’ve written a letter to, to Bret Skipper but I told them I would memorialize that, that we’re allowing them to go ahead and utilize that and provide them access as well so their propane truck twice a year can back down and they have a buried propane tank so they can put the hose over the fence and be able to go ahead and do it rather than driving it on his lawn and his grass that is northwest of that so. And then, in addition, that tree line has been built up over the years of substantial trees and he trims them and maintains them and does a wonderful job with that. He’d like to be able to get on that area in the future to be able to help with that. We said no problem and I told them that I would memorialize that in front of the, the, the Board tonight and we’ve already sent him a, a letter indicating that we’re going to go ahead and give him access so essentially that’s, that’s what it is. All of it emanates by virtue of the fact that this roadway was eliminated or vacated back a number of years ago for whatever reasons by the Commissioners and I think validly back at that particular point in time because it really wasn’t a road that was used and the, and dealing with them back at that time when we vacated the, the actual expense of a bridge, a new bridge over Eagle Creek at that point, given how wide the creek was and the access points, was going to be a substantial cost to the county, they just didn’t see the cost benefit ratio to the county by spending the money to do that so that was all simply vacated. So we’ve had a, a private road there for years and I think the, the legal significance of what staff has come up with in terms of what we’re required to do makes sense and was born in your ordinances and we’re fully, fully prepared to try to comply with that with regard to this variance. Be happy to answer any questions. Fedor Is there any questions for the petitioner? Mundy Where is the county line? Andreoli Pardon? Mundy Where is the county line? This is very, we, we knew the Schmidts when they lived there – Andreoli Right at Little Eagle Creek and 141st Street. I think that’s really, that is the county line. Fedor Go to the mic. Mundy So, yeah, you may want to get back to the microphone. The couple you just talked about with the propane tank, they are then in Boone County? Andreoli Yes. Mundy Okay, okay. Page 11 of 28 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals November 6, 2024 Andreoli The propane tank, Mr. Skipper lives in Boone County and his property you got 141st and you got Little Eagle Creek, his is at the northwest corner of that intersection which is in Boone. Up on the other side of Little Eagle Creek is Hamilton County. Mundy Okay. We, we knew the Schmidts and have been to their property out there and I know they, I think they may even have a Carmel address but are in Zionsville. I think it’s something like that. Andreoli Well Skipper does not have a Carmel address but we’ve had to notify several people in Carmel since they’re adjacent to it – Mundy Yeah. Andreoli And we’ve, we’ve had to do that as part of our notification process. Fedor This might be a question for staff – is there, on going down 146th or 141st Street there looking to the west there it looks like there’s some utility access or utility easements through there, some larger power lines going through there. Andreoli There are power lines – Fedor Is that, are they going to have access through that gate? Andreoli Yes. They will maintain access through that gate. All utility companies, all Fire and ambulance, all of those will maintain access, access through that. Actually, the, if, if you can kinda see it on the, on the aerial, there’s quite a wide area down through there where they have those, those power lines. I mean it gets fairly wide down in there so they, they do, they do have the ability to have access it. I don’t know whether the power lines are on, on the road or maybe on Mr. Skipper’s property but I, I do know that they, they do have access down there and they’ve come and talked with Mr. and Mrs. Skipper. They, they’ve been contacted about cutting down their trees that are apparently in the easement and he’s resisted that. In fact, he said he hired some young lawyer years ago to work with them on that, named Mike Andreoli, to, to, to push back against the cutting of the, of the trees back then and so I think the, the actual easement itself is, is on the Skipper property and not necessarily in, in the, in the road itself. You wouldn’t think there would be an easement within the road itself so it’s on Mr. Skipper’s property but and they’ve asked, asked him about cutting property, cutting trees and this, that and the other but for some reason or another they’ve, they’ve deferred doing that but you can see just west of where the road turns, that is fairly open and they’ve kept that fairly well trimmed over the years. I don’t think that’s going to affect what we’re doing here at all. Dale I have a question Mike – Andreoli Yes? Dale I have a question for you. Andreoli Yes. Page 12 of 28 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals November 6, 2024 Dale I was wondering what your thoughts are in terms of emergency access and if the gate is going to be locked or an automatic opening or – Andreoli I’m sorry? Dale Whether the gate would be permanently locked or for the, locked permanently or? Andreoli Yeah, no it will, it will be, it will be permanently closed and we intend to have a, a code for that that we will provide and, and we haven’t determined the, the actual, we’ve, we’ve determined the area where it’s going to be, Mike, but we haven’t determined the actual gate itself, whether it’s going to be a clutch gate, whether it’s going to be have, have an access code. In talking with Troy, I think it’s going to be, have, have an access code where each one will have their own access code to be able to enter – Dale Oh. Andreoli Enter that particular gate. The cost of that will be borne by Mr. Roberson solely to be able to go ahead and remove the gate. There’s already an existing gate there and I think the current residents are feeling it’s, if you want to move it that’s, that’s fine. We’re all in agreement with that but we don’t necessarily want to pay for it. We constructed the first one. So all of the, all of the just like other gates that we have around town and the, and all of that will be provided to Fire, ambulance, all of those, all of those types of things and I, I haven’t, I haven’t determined from Mr. Roberson one of the questions that I had, I think was what you were getting to where the mailbox is going to be. Is it going to be, are they going to be up there? Are they going to be in the back? And you’ve got one residence up – the 6 acres is all the way in the back at the, close to the end where Mr. Ballard and his partner live and, and so, obviously, mail delivery is being done there because there’s no mailboxes up front. So we’ll have to work with staff in trying to figure out where those are located and how they’re located to make them easiest for mail delivery and access for those types of things. Haven’t got to that point yet. Dale And I don’t know if we’ve talked about it, but would a permit be required to install the gate? The, the structure improvement location permit? And that’s one, one way we can make sure that it’s placed right where, where he said he’d place it and also that the emergency response have been notified of the – Andreoli Yes. Dale Proper codes. Andreoli Yeah. Smith Umm, honestly, I’ve not been around for any other – like, I know you had to pull permits for subdivisions, right? Like Holliday Farms they got a gated entrance. I’m not sure if we specifically required a permit to be pulled for the gate or if we approved the overall development plan – Page 13 of 28 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals November 6, 2024 Dale Uh huh. Smith Would your client be opposed to pulling a building permit for the gate when they construct it? Andreoli No, I, one of the things that I, I don’t think we have any difficulty with that. One of the things that we need to deal with is Mr. Roberson is planning on building on the very back property, the very south of the, of the property at the very end and, of course, from a, from an emergency vehicle standpoint we’re going to have to provide either some type of hammerhead or turnaround and all of that. We propose to do all of that at the building permit process so all of that is laid out and accessible so that when Fire come down there they have a way to get down, they have a way to turn around and get back – Dale Right. Andreoli And we anticipate we’ll have that as part of our building permit process and especially for Mr. Roberson’s lot – Dale Uh huh. Andreoli Because he’s at the very end and the farthest down there and other, other, for instance, the 6-acre property has a large driveway that can be turned around in. We have nothing at this point so we’ll have to provide all of that as part of the building permit process. So whatever conditions that the Board wants to propose with regard to that, we’re, we’re fine with that. Dale Okay. Andreoli We want it to, we want it to make sure that it works fine for emergency and Fire and ambulance. Dale Okay. I think the permitting is, is, is valuable to make sure that emergency has a chance to review the location and make sure that it can get through, get through the gate. I think that would be valuable for the public health, safety and welfare to, to require a permit for the gate. Fedor That was my next question is how wide is the gate? Dale Yeah, right. Fedor I mean is it 8 foot? Is it 12 foot? Is it you know. Andreoli And we’ve got, we’ve got essentially two issues – we’ve got the issue of being able to place a gate but we also have to come in and get a building permit for, for the two lots that are the farthest south lots and that’s where all of the working with staff with regard to – Dale Uh huh. Page 14 of 28 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals November 6, 2024 Andreoli Access and those types of things with the Fire and ambulance will come in and so making, making sure that, that all of those things are buttoned up in terms of the time of the building permit is fine with us. We anticipated all of that and, and understand that that’s part of the process. Smith Just, just to ask a clarifying question while you’re over there – do you anticipate moving the gate or putting in the new gate at a different time prior to construction of the new homes? I guess my question would be do you plan on moving the gate relatively soon and then five years later building a home or do you think you’ll build a home in the next one or two months and move the gate within the next one or two months? Andreoli You know, I don’t know. That’s, I don’t know what the timing of that is. Smith Because if you plan on moving the gate and that being an individual action – Andreoli I, I think – Smith And then years later building a home I think – Andreoli I think the thought is to try to move the gate – Smith Okay. Andreoli But I know we’re, we’re trying that with our engineer, trying to have discussions with staff – Smith Yeah – Andreoli With, with regard to permitting and what, what you’re all going to need. We’ve already reached out to staff with regard to that. Bryan Sheward is, is the engineer on, on the project itself and so we, we can probably tailor-make those either way you want them but my thought is the gate is already there. We want to move that gate probably before we start doing any additional work back there, getting any approvals but I guess I’m interested in what your thoughts are in that regard or we could work through that but – Smith Well, I was thinking if you were going to build the house and move the gate at the same time you could just apply for one building permit altogether. Andreoli Yes. Smith Which I think is kind of what you were getting to but if you’re going to move the gate relatively soon – Andreoli Yes, I think that – Smith But you have no timeline on when you’re going to build the house – Andreoli The gate’s – Page 15 of 28 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals November 6, 2024 Smith I think you’re better off splitting them into two different permits – one singular permit for the new gate to where Fire and, and emergency personnel can look at the, the gate, the location of it, get the code or whatever figured out. So apply for one singular permit just to move the gate and that will be the only thing we focus on – Andreoli Yeah, I mean – Smith And then a second permit whenever y’all hash out the, the details for ___. 47:01 Andreoli I, I guess I’m not quite understanding what the issue is because the bottom line is we, we’ve got to work with Fire in making sure that – Smith Yeah. Andreoli What codes we have and everything else is provided to them. Believe me, that’s, that’s in our best interest more than anybody else’s – Smith Yeah, agreed. Andreoli We need Fire and ambulance, if we need Fire and ambulance and those types of things back there that’s, that’s important to us to be able to have those services provided so, obviously, we need to work with all of that. I think Mr. Roberson’s thought was that gate that’s there now is really kind of well, you probably have seen it. It’s old – Smith Yeah. Andreoli And pretty ancient but, so we’d like to upgrade all of that and get that, get that all handled so that all properties there have, have gated access. The other thing in case it was inquisitive by the, by the Board, is that we’ve entered into a reciprocal access gate easement with everybody so that the, the maintenance of the gate, the maintenance of the road, all of that, that’s never been done before but we now have that in place and it’s been recorded so that we have all of that and I think it’s part of the, our, our petition that we put together so all of that has been handled so all of the four owners back there are all in sync with who, who has what responsibility to do what in terms of maintenance so that ongoing maintenance and those types of things will have to be done so we’ve got that already in place. Fedor Is there any other questions for the petitioner? Seeing none, is there members of the public who have questions or concerns on this docket? Seeing none, any discussion between ourselves on this one? Mundy I– Fedor I mean – Mundy It makes sense to do this I think. I ride by bicycle up there and we knew the Schmidts and I, I can tell you people drive back there and there’s a gate and you gotta find a way to turn around. Page 16 of 28 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals November 6, 2024 Fedor I mean the, I, I agree with, with staff. I’d like to see a permit filed for, for this separate from that way we be sure that we’re, we’re covered with the Fire and Police and every other one, everyone else who would have access through that. I would assume the utility company would also have to sign off on that if they’re coming through there. I don’t know if their trucks are wider than a fire truck. I’m not sure. I mean – Smith Honestly, I don’t know if the utility companies are involved in our day-to-day what I call our day-to-day permits like an ILP review. They, I know to some degree are involved in our larger projects what we call TAC, Technical Advisory Committee, but I don’t think installing a gate is going to rise to the level of needing to go through TAC so I suspect what will only happen is it’ll just be internal staff that looks at this permit – Fedor Uh huh. Smith Which will be our inspectors, us, we’ll share it with Fire probably just to get their opinion on it and really that’ll be it I believe unless Mike wants to loop somebody else ____. 50:32 Fedor The only concern I have is you’re, you’re going to put a gate up and then we’re going to build houses back behind here. I know it’s, it’s a straight shot through, there’s no turn at this point. It’s, I just want to make sure it’s wide enough that you’re going to be able to get building materials through there as well as Fire and everything else. Smith To speak to that, when they get ready to build – Andreoli It’s serving that area now and has been for 25, 30 years. It’s been serving those properties back there for that period of time, especially the 6-acre lot by Mr. Ballard and for the edification of the Board, the, the drive is, is hard surface. It probably needs to be resurfaced but it is hard surface. It’s not a gravel drive or anything like that because that’s been a concern that the Board’s had in past concerns in terms of the, especially with Fire. This is, this is a hard surface that, in fact, the, the surface itself was the Old Willow Road bed so it’s probably as good of, of a subsurface as you could find in terms of a private drive because it’s in the area where the existing road used to be. So, it, it probably needs to have another coat of asphalt put on it at some point and there’s an agreement with regard to how that’s going to happen but the, it’s not, it’s not a gravel drive. It’s, it’s an existing drive and it’s plenty wide enough to be able to go ahead and go back there and, again, we’re, we’re happy to go ahead and make sure all of those things are handled in the building permit process before we can get building permits all of those things are cleared through Jonathan and, and Mike’s office from a, from a building permit standpoint. Fedor Any other questions or comments, concerns? If not, I’ll entertain a motion. Mundy I move that Docket 2024-43-DSV, Development Standard Variance to eliminate the required road frontage and allow for the gated entrance to Willow Road for a property at 3511 Willow Road be approved as presented and described based on Page 17 of 28 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals November 6, 2024 the findings in the staff report and staff recommendations, submitted Findings of Fact, substantial compliance with the submitted site plans and evidence presented during the public hearing. I don’t believe we need to acknowledge the, the, the fact that they’re going to allow access for the propane filling. I don’t think that that’s any part of it. Andreoli No, that’s, I just wanted to make sure ____. 53:17 inaudible off microphone Fedor No, I think it, I, I would consider that evidence during the public hearing. Mundy Yeah. Hurst What I think might be missing from your motion is the requirement that they get a building permit before they move the gate. Mundy You want that in there? Smith I think that, I think that’s a good idea just – Mundy All right. Smith I mean, the, the building permit is relatively inexpensive in the overall scheme of things and I don’t want to speak on behalf of our emergency services but if I have to pick, I would rather be cautious and conservative and let them look at a permit and tell me well we didn’t need to see this as opposed to them driving up to the property seeing the gate’s relocated and then coming to my, my desk and saying why didn’t you say something? So if you could put that in a motion to make it part of the approval, Mr. Andreoli has already said he doesn’t have any problem agreeing to doing that. It’s relatively inexpensive and it’ll hopefully get out in front of any possible issue that we may have with one of our emergency services so, yes, put that in the motion please. Mundy I will, Mr. Chairman, I’ll amend, amend my motion to include that the petitioner apply for and receive a building permit before work is started on moving the gate or building of residence. Fedor Is there a second? Hurst Second. Fedor Mike, will you take roll call please? Dale Steve Mundy? Mundy Aye. Dale Jim Hurst? Hurst Aye. Dale Josh Fedor? Page 18 of 28 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals November 6, 2024 Fedor Aye. Dale All approve. Fedor Motion passes. Moving forward – Docket 2024-45-DSV, Anne M. Carlsson Trust, 3511 Willow Road, Zionsville, Indiana 46077 (Lot 1). Development Standards Variance pursuant to Section 194.082 Table 3 to eliminate the road, the required road frontage and allow for a gated entrance to Willow Road in the Rural Single and Two-Family Residential (R-2) zoning district. Is, these are going to be the same but is there any additions you want to add from a staff report? Smith Well, I guess just for the record to hit through the, the bullet points so that we have something for the minutes related to this. Let the staff report reflect that we support this petition for the reasons previously mentioned, specifically, the preexisting conditions related to the gate, the location of the gate and the creation of this access easement while it was under the jurisdiction of Boone County just to speak to the questions in our findings, right, staff does not believe this is going to be injurious to public health and safety. As Mr. Andreoli has mentioned, our emergency services as well as utility companies, etc. will have access to and through the gate to be able to provide their services. The use value of the properties in the area will not be substantially adversely impacted. We believe that’s supported by the fact that all the parcels along this access easement are in agreement with this variance request as petitioners. If they felt like it would adversely impact their property, they would not be doing this so staff believes that measure has been supported. The third one, again, the access easement, the location of the preexisting gate, couple that with its legal nonconforming status, also the fact that it’s right behind a curve hidden from view, we think those factors when you add them altogether, relate to unnecessary hardship so we support the request for the record. Fedor Questions for staff? Hurst No. Fedor Is the petitioner present? And want to add anything? Andreoli ___ 57:12 inaudible off microphone Fedor Okay. Is there any members of the public who have concerns or comments on this docket? Seeing none, is there anymore questions or anything between the Board? If not, I’ll look for a motion. Hurst I move that Docket 2024-45-DSV, Development Standards Variance to eliminate the required road frontage and allow for a gated entrance to Willow Road for a property at 3511 Willow Road be conditionally approved as presented and described based on the findings in the staff report and staff recommendations, submitted Findings of Fact, substantial compliance with the submitted site plans and that the petitioner must get a building permit before moving or reconstructing the gate. Page 19 of 28 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals November 6, 2024 Fedor Is there a second? Mundy Second. Fedor Mike, will you take roll call please? Dale Jim Hurst? Hurst Aye. Dale Steve Mundy? Mundy Aye. Dale Josh Fedor? Fedor Aye. Dale All three. Fedor Motion passes. Moving forward – Docket 2024-46-DSV, Troy Roberson, 3511 Willow Road, Zionsville, Indiana 46077 (Lot #3). Development Standards Variance pursuant to Section 194.082 Table 3 to eliminate the required road frontage and allow for a gated entrance to the Willow Road in the Rural Single and Two-Family Residential (R-2) zoning district. Staff report please. Smith Again, the staff report recommends a favorable recommendation. Specifically in relation to the questions in the findings, as it relates to public health and safety, again, we’ve already discussed that all of our emergency personnel as well as utility companies will have access through the gate to do their services. We believe this is not adversely going to impact them. As far as the use and the property values of the surrounding properties, we’ve not received any remonstrance related to the request. All of the properties impacted by this access easement are actually listed as petitioners so, we assume they don’t believe it’s going to adversely impact their property or they wouldn’t be making these requests and then the third and final finding, hardship. Unnecessary hardship as it relates to this property, the creation of the access easement, the preexisting legal nonconforming gate and coupled with its current location, those factors combined together create unnecessary hardship. So we believe these meet the standards for approval. Fedor Questions for staff? Seeing none, is the petitioner present and want to add anything? Andreoli No. Fedor No? All right. Is there anybody from the public who would have any concerns or comments? Seeing none, any questions or concerns between the Board? If not, I will look for a motion. Page 20 of 28 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals November 6, 2024 Hurst I, I don’t see that our technical person is here to elevate anybody that might be online. Fedor All right. Hurst I realize that’s a low probability but we should double check. Fedor Yeah, I’ll give him just a second to sit back down here. Mundy While he’s getting in place, this is another this, this petition what we have described thus far with the exception of one thing is exactly like the first one. Should we be including in there the lot number? Because the only difference between this and the first petition was that that was Lot 2, this is Lot 3. Fedor Did I not say Lot 3 on? Mundy You, you did say that on the – Fedor Yes, but we probably should include it in the motion. Mundy Okay. Fedor Yes, I would agree. Smith I will say the, the motions and the approvals aren’t necessarily tied to the language in your motion. We tie them to the docket numbers – Mundy Okay. Smith And the owners and you got three different owners and four different docket numbers but, yeah, you can include the lot. If you didn’t include the lot number in your previous motions, that’s fine. We’ll figure it out. That’s not a problem. Mundy I, I don’t think we included the lot numbers – Smith That’s okay. Mundy Okay. Smith We’ll figure it out. Fedor Is there any members of the public online who? No? All right. I’ll look for a, a motion. Mundy I move that Docket 2024-46-DSV, Development Standard Variance to eliminate the required road frontage and allow for a gated entrance to Willow Road for a property at 3511 Willow Road (Lot #3) be approved as presented and described based on the findings in the staff report, staff recommendations, submitted Findings of Fact, substantial compliance with the submitted site plans, evidence presented during the public hearing and that a permit to allow for the movement of the existing gate to a new location be granted before any work starts. Page 21 of 28 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals November 6, 2024 Fedor Is there a second? Hurst Second. Fedor Mike, will you take roll call please? Dale Steve Mundy? Mundy Aye. Dale Jim Hurst? Hurst Aye. Dale Josh Fedor? Fedor Aye. Dale All three. Fedor Motion passes. Moving forward – Docket 2024-47-DSV, Samuel H. Ballard and Swati Singh, 3680 Willow Road, Zionsville, Indiana 46077 (Lot 4), Development Standards Variance pursuant to Section 194.082 Table 3 to eliminate the required road frontage and allow for a gated entrance to Willow Road in the Rural Single and Two-Family Residential (R-2) zoning district. Jonathan, do you have a staff report for us? Smith Yeah, so just to let the record reflect staff, the staff report is favorable. We support this request for the reasons again previously mentioned during the meeting but just to reiterate – staff does not believe this request will be injurious to the public health and safety mainly because all of the public health and safety departments and utility companies will have access through the gate so we don’t see any issues there. The property values, again, many of the people, actually, all of the people impacted directly by this easement are listed as petitioners themselves which would imply they do not think this is hurting their property value. We’ve also not received any remonstrance related to this request. Staff believes that standard has been met. Finally, question 3 as it relates to unnecessary hardship, again, the access easement, the preexisting access easement, preexisting gate, coupled with its existing location, we think those factors when you couple them together, create unnecessary hardship and this petition rises to the standard needed for us to support it so. Fedor Any questions for staff? Seeing none, is the petitioner present and want to add anything? Andreoli No. Fedor All right. Anybody from the public who wants to add anything? Is there any discussion between ourselves? If not, I’ll entertain a motion. Page 22 of 28 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals November 6, 2024 Hurst You want me to do it or do you want to do it Steve? Mundy Doesn’t matter. Hurst Well, we’ve been going either. Mundy Tag team. Hurst Tag team so I’ll, I’ll take this. I move that Docket 2024-47-DSV, Development Standards Variance to eliminate the required road frontage and allow for a gated entrance to Willow Road for a property located at 3680 Willow Road (Lot 4) be conditionally approved as presented and described based on the findings in the staff report and staff recommendations, submitted Findings of Fact, substantial compliance with the submitted site plans and that a building permit be obtained before moving or reconstructing the gate. Fedor Is there a second? Mundy Second. Fedor Mike, will you take roll call please? Dale Jim Hurst? Hurst Aye. Dale Steve Mundy? Mundy Aye. Dale Josh Fedor? Fedor Aye. Dale All three. Fedor Motion passes. Andreoli Thank you very much. Taylor Thank you Mike. Fedor Thank you Mike. Dale Thank you. Fedor Other Matters to Consider tonight are some Rules and Procedures for the Board of Zoning Appeals. Mike, are you taking that one or Jonathan? Smith I can take it. Page 23 of 28 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals November 6, 2024 Fedor Okay. Smith I don’t know how much I’m going to take but – Fedor And with just the three of us here I’ll at least say I think I’d like to postpone this until next month – Smith Yeah. Fedor When we have all five of us here or a better chance of all five of us here. Smith So that’s what I was going to say in a summary. If you have specific questions if you’ve read through the, the document, I’m happy to answer. I will say I’m grateful for Jodi carrying the flag on these things through Planning Commission because I’m taking y’all’s feedback that I’m hearing from Plan Commission and trying to incorporate it into this document. So, I know at Plan Commission side of things y’all have had discussion off and on related to requiring people to sign in, right, and that whole, that whole discussion, so I’ve – I’ve updated these rules to reflect where y’all landed at Plan Commission level which essentially says that we’ll put in a sign-in sheet and they can sign in at the front but we’re not going to incorporate it into the, into the book so. Fedor Okay. Smith Anyway, if you want to dive into it I’m happy to answer it but I do not believe we should take action tonight because we’re missing two of the people that this would impact so I’m perfectly fine with pushing this off until December. Fedor Is everyone – Hurst I, I understand the document, I understand the changes. We call it a redline here but there’s actually no redlines within the document. Mundy Exactly. Smith Oh, oh yeah, yeah. This was, so this was intended not to be a redline anymore it was intended to be the final thing and my idea was to have it approved tonight and then we lost two people and I didn’t change the agenda. Hurst Okay, I just – Smith But, yes, you are correct. I will change the name for the next meeting to final draft. How about that? Final draft and then if y’all, if y’all read through it and y’all want to make more changes, I’m, I’m open to them. I’m not opposed to that at all. Just let me know. But just know the next meeting in December this will be the final – Hurst If I was voting on it tonight, I would vote in favor of it. Smith Thank you. Page 24 of 28 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals November 6, 2024 Mundy And I’d, I’d say when I looked at it I looked and there’s no red but I am assuming that this is the same thing we looked at last month – Smith Yeah. Mundy Which did have – Smith Yeah. Mundy It was a redline and – Smith Yeah there, there was plenty of redlines. We’ve, we’ve poked and prodded this thing for a few months now so there’s been plenty of redlines I just, my goal wasn’t maybe thinking about what I was calling it to be honest with you. My goal was just to get it done and get it to y’all tonight. I did that only for us to, to not have everybody here which is perfectly fine. So, this is done, it’s good unless y’all have changes. I’ll change the name of it to final draft and we’ll be good to go by December. Fedor We’ll take, we’ll take a look at it in December then. Smith Yeah. Fedor Moving on to the 2025 Board of Zoning Appeal calendar. Jonathan, you want to thank it, take it? Again, I want to thank you for getting those dates moved around myself but is there any – Smith The only thing I’m going to point out that I don’t know how this is going to go – I sometimes get jealous of the Plan Commission side of the team because they require people to do pre-filing meetings and then oftentimes BZA it’s just kind of like a drop and run at the front desk where I really don’t even get to see people, right? And that creates a lot of problems after the submittal deadline because people, a lot of times these projects are complex, right? They, they come to BZA because they got problems and staff really needs to be able to partner with them ahead of the deadline as opposed to three or four days after the filing deadline because at that point the, the ship has already left the dock, right? So you’re going to see highlighted in bright yellow at the very top this agenda or at the very top of this meeting schedule, a requirement for pre-filing meetings, very similar, it’s actually the exact same standard for Plan Commission, right? So the only thing I’m asking is to be held to the same standard as Plan Commission. I think if I can get people ahead of the deadline, give me two weeks before the submittal deadline and we might just very well be able to work out a lot of these problems. If we can’t, well we’ve had two weeks to hash that out and so if it comes to y’all and we’ve had two weeks’ worth of pre-filings then you know it’s a real problem, right, and there’s not a great solution to it. So, that might be a surprise to some people but that’s the only real change. I’ve posted it now a couple of months. I’ve talked about it and I’ve not had any pushback from any of our, what I call our frequent fliers, or, or anybody else and people that deal with Plan Commission all the time this is nothing to them. It’s a custom thing that they deal with all the time. Page 25 of 28 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals November 6, 2024 Dale Did that make, this rule make it into our Rules? Smith It’s not in the Rules and it’s also not in Plan Commission, well it wasn’t in Plan Commission’s Rules. I’ll have to check and make sure Jodi didn’t incorporate it into the new ones but the only standard that, for Plan Commission was on the application. Dale Oh. Smith Right? Or on the, the schedule so technically, I mean like, I don’t know if we say this over the microphone but technically if somebody wanted to push back at it, there’s only, the only thing on Plan Commission that says you have to have a pre- filing is on the, on the calendar. Dale It might be worth considering adding it to the Rules. Just a little bit of – Smith Yeah or adding it to the application or something. We’re trying to walk hand-in- hand and keep things as uniform just for an administrative standpoint as we possibly can so when somebody looks at the BZA application, they’re not seeing something completely foreign from Plan Commission, right, and we’re trying to just mirror everything. There’s going to be places where we can’t but we’re trying to mirror that and so when it came to pre-filing meetings, keeping it as close to what most people are familiar with seeing is what I was trying to do and all it is with Plan Commission is on their schedule. That’s why I added it there. Hurst Fully supportive of your efforts and we might really seriously consider Mr. Dale’s suggestion that we – Smith Yeah. Hurst Put that in the Rules. Smith I’m gonna, yeah – Hurst Although I’ll put potential petitioners on notice, if you refuse to work with staff it’s probably going to be harder for you in front of the Boards. Smith Yeah – Hurst Just the way it goes. Smith Well the problem is they just don’t, a lot of the people that we deal with are just regular Joes, you know? They, they don’t deal with this every time and, and so they walk in and they want to do something and then they’re talking to our front desk team only to find out that they’re violating four or five things and they’re like oh no and then what, what’s the BZA and so it, it’s really just kind of like a, a brief exchange at best at the front desk. Oftentimes they get told something by somebody over the phone and they’ll come in with a complete application, drop it off at the front desk team and just scurry out the door and you just don’t, you don’t have any interaction with the person, right? And, and that’s through no fault of their own, that’s just a hole or a loop, a loophole in our system I guess. Page 26 of 28 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals November 6, 2024 So this requirement is just trying to like close that up, mirror Plan Commission as much as possible and just quite honestly there’s, there’s times, I mean you’ll see cases in December where people come in and they apply for one thing, right, we got a petition that they came in, they applied for one thing but there’s all these other issues that we’ve identified, right? And you run into problems, especially with BZA where they have to do public noticing, for example, and they think well, we only need to notice for a side yard setback. Well, we get going through the paperwork after the filing deadline and we find oh, well you’re encroaching into this other setback or your lot coverage is a problem and you got all these other issues that you need to address but you’re only addressing this one single thing and we are past the notice deadline or past the submittal deadline, you only paid for one variance and you need three and so we’re trying to like piecemeal Frankenstein a BZA petition a week and a half or two weeks after the deadline and it’s really challenging to get to a good solution with like 10 days left before the meeting, right? And so if we get this pre-filing stuff, just this common practice we’re going to be able to work with people and provide a much better product, I think. It’s all about customer service, right? That’s what we do. We work for the citizens of Zionsville and it might seem inconvenient now but for somebody that’s overwhelmed and doesn’t understand the process, if I can just get them in my office, meet with them face-to-face, explain the process, try to find a solution before y’all guys ever become involved, that’s a win and that’s what this is attempting to do so anyway. Other than that, I’ve not received any negative things about the dates. I’ve received like, I think, one or two emails here and there. I think Kathi has an issue with one of the dates and if anybody else emailed me I’m sorry – I’m not pulling them up but there was not a date where a majority of us could not be here so. And if you could approve these tonight, I would really appreciate it because I’ve got to get these to Amy and get them on Town Council so that I think in December’s meetings or January’s meetings, one of the two, they can approve all these schedules and get us on the calendar before somebody takes our dates and times. Fedor I’ll entertain a motion guys. Anybody want to approve these dates? Hurst I’ll, I’ll move we approve the dates as submitted for the BZA meetings in 2025. Smith Awesome. Fedor Is there a second? Mundy Second. Fedor Mike, will you take roll call or I guess we – do we need that on this one did we? Taylor You don’t have to take a roll call. Fedor Okay. All, all in favor? All Aye. Page 27 of 28 Zionsville Board of Zoning Appeals November 6, 2024 Fedor All opposed? [No response] None, motion passes. Is there anything else? Anyone? If not, I will entertain a motion to adjourn. Mundy So moved. Fedor Wait a minute, I’m sorry – Hurst Oh I’m sorry I thought you said something. Dale No. Fedor Okay. Hurst So moved. Fedor So moved? Mundy Second. Fedor Second. All in favor? All Aye. Fedor All opposed? [No response] None. Meeting adjourned. Dale Thank you gentlemen. Fedor Thank you. Page 28 of 28