Plan Commission (PC)

Zionsville Plan Commission February 19, 2013 Call to Order Pledge of Allegiance In attendance: David Franz, Wayne Haynes, Larry Jones, Larry Mitchell, Jay Parks, Allan Rachles, Kevin Schiferl. Roll was taken. A quorum is present. Staff attending: Wayne DeLong, Carol Sparks Drake, attorney. All Pledge of Allegiance. Rachles Mr. DeLong, would you please call the roll? DeLong Certainly. Mr. Franz? Franz Present. DeLong Mr. Haynes? Haynes Present. DeLong Mr. Jones? Jones Present. DeLong Mr. Mitchell? Mitchell Present. DeLong Mr. Parks? Parks Present. DeLong Mr. Rachles? Rachles Present. DeLong Mr. Schiferl? Schiferl Present. Rachles In your packet, you should have the meeting minutes of the January 22 meeting. Are there any additions or corrections to those minutes? If there aren’t any, I will entertain a motion for approval of the minutes. Parks So moved. Mitchell Second. Zionsville Plan Commission February 19, 2013 Rachles All those in favor, aye. All Aye. Rachles The minutes of the January 22, 2013 meeting minutes are approved. Mr. DeLong, I noticed, at least in my packet, we had the minutes of the November 13 meeting. DeLong That’s correct. Those are provided to you for your reference related to 2012-14- DP. That’s the last time the petition on Stonegate Drive was discussed. We just simply provided those for your reference. Rachles Thank you. I thought we had approved them, but I wanted to be sure. At our last meeting, we appointed a representative,-- last year, we appointed a representative to the Board of Zoning Appeals. That was Jay Parks. His term is up. I’ll entertain a motion for nomination for a member of this Commission to be a member of the Board of Zoning Appeals. I will nominate Jay Parks to continue on as a member of the BZA. Is there a second? Mitchell Second. Rachles Any other nominations? All those in favor of Jay Parks, say aye. Aye. Rachles Opposed? Parks Abstain. Rachles Okay. Jay, you are sent for another year on the BZA. Parks Thank you. Rachles I’m sure after last week, you just can’t wait. We had appointed two members of our group to review the petition of Bob Harris for the Bub’s Burger project on what we’ll call South Main Street. Would either Larry Jones or Larry Mitchell like to make a report on the meeting that you had with Bob Harris and give us the status of that? Jones Sure, Allan, I will. Rachles We will recognize Mr. Jones. Jones We met with Mr. Harris and his architect, Dave Rausch, on February 11 and, basically, they came back with some new updated drawings regarding the project. Our primary concern was just the quality of the detail of the architectural renderings and the exterior elevations of the building. The layout, parking, Bub’s Burger, none of that is really substantially changed from what they presented in the past. In general, we were quite favorable in the additional detail that it’s going to really help carry the Town of Zionsville or the Village of Zionsville Page 2 of 20 Zionsville Plan Commission February 19, 2013 down Main Street which is, I think, part of the general plan as we work to redevelop the 106th area, just to sort of provide a nice tie-in between downtown Zionsville and the businesses in there. So, from an architectural standpoint, the project is moving right along. Mr. Harris has a couple of tenants that they are looking for in what we consider their retail space, so he will probably at some point come back with one final revision of the elevations that will be more in keeping with the square footage of the proposed tenants he is going to have. So, basically, the building will consist of a brick building on the southernmost part of the parcel and then sort of a retail center with two to four tenants in the middle, sort of brick facade on each end cap with the southern portion of the building having pretty nice little architectural detail and then the center section having a slightly different hardy plank facade. In general, we were quite pleased with the direction it’s going and we think it’s going to be a pretty successful project when it gets completed. Rachles Thank you. I also attended that meeting as an ex officio, and I believe Mr. Harris expects Bub’s Burgers to be open in September? That’s his current game plan? Jones Correct. Rachles Any comments from any members of the Commission about Mr. Jones’ report? If not, we’ll move on to our continued items. The first continued item is 2012-10- DP Wal-Mart 10950 Michigan Road. This was a petition for Development Plan approval for the development of a 156,621 square foot Wal-Mart facility on 14.5 acres in a business B2 zoning district. This was continued from the January 22 Plan Commission meeting. Is there a representative here from Wal-Mart? Mr. DeLong, do we have any filings or motions from Wal-Mart? DeLong Thank you Mr. Rachles. No, we have had no communications since the BZA hearing last week. Rachles Okay, if I understand it right, and I’m going to call on our attorney for clarification. We have the option of continuing on our own or dismissing it or some other action which I currently can’t conceive what that would be. So, Carol, if you would give us your opinion as to what we have to do here? Drake That is correct, Mr. Chairman. Under your rules, you may dismiss. The petitioner has, I believe, already had two continuances and, for further continuance, they are to show hardship. But, it is at your discretion. Rachles I think what we can do is I’ll entertain some discussion from members of the commission about this and then we’ll take a vote on whether we want to continue or dismiss. Does anybody have any comments? Schiferl My comment would be, I believe I have to be consistent. On substantive matters, I have to recuse myself from Wal-Mart dealings so I’m going to recuse myself from even this procedural matter. Rachles Thank you. Page 3 of 20 Zionsville Plan Commission February 19, 2013 Mitchell This is Larry Mitchell. I will also have to recuse myself from this matter. Rachles Okay, we have two recusals. Do any of the remaining members of the Commission who are eligible to vote on this have any comments about what action— ? We had a question. The process now on the BZA is that was it was voted down but that will not be finally approved until the next meeting, correct? Rachles That’s correct. ? Is there anything that could possibly change that in the interim? Parks The vote. We have to vote on the final wording of the findings of fact. That will be the actual legal document. That vote will be taken at the next meeting. The four members will be able to vote. There was one recusal as well. Rachles May I point out for the record that Mr. Parks, who was elected to the BZA, was a participant in that meeting. He was one of our two representatives to the BZA. Is there any discussion on this issue or would somebody like to make a motion either for dismissal or for continuance? Parks I will make a comment and then a motion. The comment is this: In the past where we have had situations where people have had issues where they wanted to come in, there’s a period of time between the time they may get a dismissal or denial and the time that they can come back in with a modified plan. We have allowed amendments to be heard prior to the end of that period of time. So, there is really no hardship. So, for that reason, then, I will move that we dismiss this particular docket number from our agenda. I’ll just leave it at that. Rachles Is there a second? Haynes Second. Rachles Any discussion? We’ll have a roll call vote on this. Yes means you vote to dismiss. No means you oppose that. DeLong Mr. Franz? Franz Yes. DeLong Mr. Haynes? Haynes Yes. DeLong Mr. Jones? Jones Yes. Page 4 of 20 Zionsville Plan Commission February 19, 2013 DeLong Mr. Parks? Parks Yes. DeLong Mr. Rachles? Rachles Yes. The Commission has voted unanimously by a vote of 5 to nothing to dismiss the Wal-Mart petition. Moving on, the next item on the agenda is 2012- 14-DP M. Hecker, 6828 W. Stonegate Drive. This is a petition for Development Plan approval to build a 6,114 square foot fitness studio with a 1664 square foot second floor apartment for a total square footage of 7,788 square feet in a professional business BP zoning district. This was continued from January 22, 2013 Plan Commission meeting. Would you please identify yourself as a representative for Mr. Hecker? Hecker Yes, sir. Rachles Would you identify yourself, give us your name? Hecker My name is Matt Hecker. I currently reside at 7629 West Stonegate Drive, Apartment B, Zionsville, Indiana and I am the owner of Hecker’s Fitness. Rachles Would you please proceed with your comments? Hecker A quick synopsis. For most of you, you are probably unaware that Hecker’s Fitness is a locally owned and operated family business that started in the summer of 2006 as an in-home personal training business. In December of that same year, we moved into the Wessel Building on 1st Street across from Dairy Queen in Zionsville and then February 2008 we moved out to Stonegate where we currently reside. In the fall of 2008, we actually tried to start this project but due to a lack of time and business and an economic downturn, we were unable to obtain bank financing. Finally, three years later, we were able to get financing and, to make a long story short, as of about two weeks ago, we actually have a workable site plan. I think most everyone here is aware that we are seeking approval to expand our business by constructing a building that will house our live-above apartment and a general fitness membership and a semi-private personal training studio. From or since the November meeting, we have changed the site plan to make the building smaller, incorporate additional parking, on-site parking, that is. We’ve added actually six-plus parking spaces and a basement to the building. Rachles Okay. Any members of the public wish to make any comments at this time? Would you please come up to the microphone and state your name and address? Everybody who’s going to speak, please form a line to save time and please keep your comments, if you’re going to be repeating what other people have said, please try to be succinct so that we can have an expeditious meeting. Go ahead. Page 5 of 20 Zionsville Plan Commission February 19, 2013 Julovich Christy Julovich, owner of the four lots opposite of that at 6857 W. Stonegate Drive where we currently have a dental practice. I’m just concerned with the parking and certain classes. I know Zumba classes or any recreational class can have 20 people in it. From the parking that I saw, I saw slots for 20 which is 5 over what I thought was stated last time. So, that’s my concern. Just for the development of the future, that it fits in. Rachles Okay. Next? Lulu Bruce Lulu. That’s L-u-l-u. I live at 6741 Stonegate Drive in Zionsville, just kind of catty-corner from the lot that Mr. Hecker wants to develop. At the last meeting, I believe, four points or four objections were brought up, only one of which I see is addressed by this plan revision. It may be that Boone County doesn’t have jurisdiction in some of these complaints. But they were, one is whether or not a residence is allowed in this professional business district. My reading of the Homeowners’ Association says not, but you guys may have no standing here but that’s point number 1, so the residence. Personally, I have no objection to that but it was an objection that was raised, I think by Dr. Julovich. Secondly, was the parking and they have upped the parking and they used a model of a lodge with 10 parking spots so double that to 20. But, Mr. Hecker’s own business model has 30. If they have 30 parking spots on site which the Homeowners’ Association for that district states is off-street parking, then I have no objection. 30. Because there is an elementary school up the street with 700 students. Some of the classes start at 8. The rest of the classes start at 9. Traffic just barrels through there like nobody’s business, a lot of school buses as well. At peak times, you’ll see the traffic backed all the way up to my house which would be past Mr. Hecker’s property at the time of the morning. So, the off-street parking is really a concern. The last is, is the hours. From my reading and consultation with others, that the various Boards that have weighed in on this, 24 hours, seven-day-a-week business is allowed but in the Homeowners’ Association it says there will be a committee that will weigh in on this. I think that given the nature of that part of Stonegate, a 24-hour business is not really appropriate. I have no problem with a 12-hour business but not a 24-hour business. Rachles Thank you. Mitchell Mr. Lulu, do you know if your Homeowners’ Association has weighed in on this? Lulu I tried and have not been able to connect but the current standing in the document is until all the lots are sold which they’re not. Obviously, at the discretion of the developer, that would be Mr. Reitz of Stonegate, has the ability to act as the committee. I’m trying to get a finding on that. I know that the restaurant which is in a different business district which has a different homeowners’ set of rules for that, that’s open until a certain time of night, say 10 and then I think the bar might be open until 2 in the morning. But, again, there are no houses directly adjacent to that. Maybe some apartments, but no houses. But, I’m going to try to find that out directly. Page 6 of 20 Zionsville Plan Commission February 19, 2013 Mitchell Thank you. Rachles Next? Venesi Hi. My name is Luke Venesi. I am resident of Stonegate. My address is 6587 Westminster Drive. And, I’m here tonight to support Matt Hecker and Emily Hecker in their pursuit of their family business. A couple points. I’ve got to be fair. I don’t know all of the legal issues involved with this. But, as a resident, I can tell you that I think a good chunk of his clientele base is from the neighborhood. I think he has, the members of this club that wants to see this go through, I think we’ve collected some signatures. I don’t know if we’ve shared with you or not? But, I think there’s a lot of support in the community about it. And, as it relates to parking. It is a fitness area. I personally live several blocks from his current business. I walk there or I jog. I’m guessing there are probably a lot of residents that would do that. Maybe not so much in the wintertime but in the summertime as a way to warm up before his classes. But, parking is something you have to address. I heard a comment about our Homeowners’ Association. I can tell that we haven’t met in probably two years. It is developer- owned and it’s very frustrating. There are a lot of changes that have happened in that neighborhood. There’s an area behind me where I live that was supposed to be created in a certain way and it’s changed. And, that’s not really fair, but you know, when you have a developer that can rule it however they want, he’s proven to do that and so there are still changes that are probably going to happen. I would also comment that I know he’s been working on this for almost a year now, it seems like. It just seems that, this community, for whatever reason, seems to be against bringing and letting new businesses start. When you see something like this, you saw the Wal-Mart last week, the big business that sort of got the push-away and then you see somebody like Matt that’s a, you know, very high integrity, that’s the kind of guy you’d really like to see his business flourish and then you just see that it’s taking this long, I can tell you as a member of the community, it’s just kind of frustrating to see that. I think that’s it. Anyway, I appreciate your consideration. Rachles Thank you. Next? Todd Good evening. My name is Linda Todd. I’m a Zionsville resident, 4125 W. 156th Street. I, too, am here in favor of Mr. Hecker and Mrs. Hecker and their family- owned business. I’ve been a client of Matt and Emily’s for approximately four years. I’m an attorney. I go and work out at 5:30 or 7 o’clock in the morning in a small group with other professionals. I think what you’ll find is the parking is plenty. There are usually only four or five of us for a class. He runs a class at 5:30, 7, 8:30 and 9:30. What you find, a lot of people from the neighborhood come. They do walk, ride their bikes. This business draws professional people. We’re parents, we’re business owners, we’re professionals. We have families. We don’t race through the neighborhood. We have children who go to Stonegate Elementary. I just want you to know what a class act you have here. And, I would urge you to put forward any suggestions you have to Mr. Hecker because I know he would be compliant with them. I would hate for you to lose such a Page 7 of 20 Zionsville Plan Commission February 19, 2013 family-friendly business. And, as Mr. Venesi said, Mr. Hecker has a lot of integrity. We’re here on his behalf to tell you that you would be losing a lot if you didn’t let this business go forward. I can’t speak to the residential issues. However, I do know there are people who live above Carolina Grill and I know that the space above Dr. Martine is for rent, so I’m not quite sure what the issue is with that. But, this is not going to draw the type of people who are going to be problems for the Stonegate neighborhood. Rachles Thank you. Next? Short Yes, I’m Jenny Short. I’m also a Zionsville resident, 4557 Sommerslong Road. I’m also a client of Matt Hecker. I’m just here to support him and the idea of encouraging more small businesses in the Zionsville area. Thank you. Kasper Hello. Thank you so much. My name is Kelly Kasper. I’m an obstetrician/gynecologist here in the city. So, I come to speak on behalf and support of Hecker’s Fitness not only as a participant in his small group sessions as well as my husband as well as my two children, 11 and 9 years of age, whom he trains for speed and agility for their soccer teams, but also as a physician. I have to see patients every single day who struggle with obesity and, although we would all love that magic pill that helps us to become svelte and thin, it doesn’t exist. It is tried and true. Healthy eating, diet and exercise and this is a local business. This is an individual, a small, family-run business, which is one of the reasons I moved my family to Zionsville. I don’t want the Wal-Marts. I want the Hecker’s Fitnesses that I can go and partake of and shop. So, to support an individual such as this who’s going to be in our community and with integrity, help us maintain our healthy lifestyles, I can only come out and ask that you let this continue and move forward because I tell my patients everyday that the way to, you know, the body type that you want is through diet and exercise. To help support Matt in his endeavors, as he helps to support me and my family in our endeavors and my patients in their endeavors, I can only ask that you as a committee support this and I think you would really be remiss not to let this continue and go through. So, thank you very much. Rachles Thank you. Next? Wishmire Hello. My name is Adam Wishmire. I’m at 6740 W. Stonegate Drive. I’m adjacent to the common area that is right next to the Hecker proposed plan. Last time, I brought up the aesthetics of the building as something else that was promised or told to us as being residents in the neighborhood, that these buildings would be brick and not any other type. They all had a certain model like the Julovich’s dentist practice. Again, I’m not opposed to this plan. I just, with Mr. Lulu, wanted to follow the guidelines that we were told as far as there wasn’t going to be 24-hour businesses there and stuff to that effect. So, I just want it to be compliant with what we were promised and told would be going in there when we bought our lots that are adjacent to all this. Thank you. Hecker Am I able to speak again or? Okay. Listening to all the comments that have been made, I definitely appreciate anybody’s support obviously. No offense to Page 8 of 20 Zionsville Plan Commission February 19, 2013 anybody who’s not. Kelly is a resident. I’m not sure; I didn’t hear that but she is actually a resident of Stonegate as well. She is the obstetrician that spoke. As far as street parking, I don’t know if you all realize where Bruce Lulu’s and, I apologize, I forget your name, where the houses are, but they are very close to the lot that I am trying to purchase. I have pictures if you want to see them; I don’t really think it’s relevant but of them parking in front of their homes on a regular basis. Now, I didn’t bring a thousand pictures to show you everyday and, fortunately, for me I am working most of the time so I’m not around that often. So, I mean, we’re talking almost a matter of feet. We’re not talking a half mile down the street. We’re not talking a different section. We’re talking almost adjoining lots. Mr. Lulu’s lot is on the east side of the street and the other gentleman is on the west side of the street and my building is also on the west side of the street or my proposed building is. As far as the Julovich’s, I believe last time, their concern was the live-above apartment and not the on-street parking. I’ve also heard a rumor that they really want there to be all-medical offices up front to increase the value of their property. Sometimes, I think some of the comments aren’t necessarily fair because they’re not inconsistent, they’re not consistent with the Homeowners’ Association. As Mr. Venesi said, basically, you know, the Homeowners’ Association and it says in there so when they moved in there in their CCRs, it states that the Homeowners’ Association has the right to change the CCRs at any time for any reason. Now, I would have actually brought a copy of that to show you but, unfortunately, my computer hard drive crashed on Sunday. It wasn’t the greatest week but . . . or last Sunday. Obviously, I think we all know that the Reitzes are in favor of this. The architectural committee has signed off on the plans. The Reitzes are selling us this lot for this purpose and intent. I’m sure they are more than glad to write a letter for that. As far as the size and the street parking, I also brought some pictures if anybody really cares but about Anytime Fitness. If we look at that location, there are 45 parking spaces and that houses three businesses. One is Oobatz which is a popular facility, Anytime Fitness and then Sherwin-Williams. Myself and the owner of Anytime Fitness are actually friends. Last time, I spoke with him about a year, not the last time I spoke with him but about his membership numbers, he had 1000 members. I’m hoping to have 300. He said last December or last January that the year of 2012 is the most new members he has signed up the entire time of being in business. So, he said he is doing very well. My point of that is that they have 45 spaces that takes care of three businesses. He’s got a thousand members. I am hoping to maybe have 300 someday. I have 20 actually plus parking spaces. According to the Fire Marshall to make some room for their turnaround area we actually have three additional spaces on the lot that are not marked but we were told that we could tell members that they can use those for overflow. Again, back to the parking, we’re talking a matter of feet on Stonegate Drive that these gentleman here have cars in front of their home at least once plus times a week. Then, their neighbor has a car there every single day. I’ve got multiple pictures that would actually show that there are different days but obviously, I don’t have every day since last November. So, I really don’t think the parking is going to be an issue. After speaking with Rick Carney, he said that if somebody complains, yes, he will restrict parking on Stonegate Drive so that would alleviate any concerns that they may have. Puts it all back on me. Of course, that means if they park on the street, they’ll get towed also. So, it’s kind Page 9 of 20 Zionsville Plan Commission February 19, 2013 of one of those things, you open Pandora’s box, you may get more than you bargained for. Now, I’m sure you all understand about the laws more than I do, about what Rick Carney’s abilities are and whatnot but I’m just speaking on what he had said to me. I know that Wayne at Town Hall has an email from him stating that you all would support whatever Boone County had in place as from such-and-such date of 2010 which they were no restrictions on that drive. I have documentation here from the neighborhood stating that they would actually there are no restrictions on the drive. Now, again, we have accommodated and we are comfortable with the number of parking spaces we have and believe we will not need any on the road at this time. My initial assessment of 30 parking spaces as Bruce Lulu mentioned was a worst case scenario. My fear was coming up here and saying, “Yeah, I only need 10 spaces, just get me approved.” I’m an old Kentucky boy and I believe in being honest and, and I’m not trying to pull the wool over anybody’s eyes or give a misleading picture. I’m trying to say, worst case scenario, we’re going to need 300, I mean 30 spaces. But, obviously, if Anytime Fitness has a thousand members, they don’t have any issues with parking, it doesn’t sound like. I don’t know if you all have heard of any. The owner didn’t tell me of any and they have 45 for three businesses. I think some of the other concerns from the last meeting about parking was how many people are going to be there at 2 a.m.? If it’s anytime access. If we have somebody there at 2 a.m., we’re talking one, two people maybe. And, and, to be honest, the person whose going to reap the brunt of this if there’s a bunch of people there is going to be me, the owner, because I’m going to be up the stairs and sound travels up very well. But, we’re talking, I mean all night long, maybe five people all week would use it after hours which would be after nine or 10. But, again, we also have an Anytime Fitness who is located in Zionsville that is 24 hours as well. Rachles Any other members of the public want to make a comment? Mitchell I have a question for the petitioner first. Who, the instructors on this are going to be, you and your wife? Hecker Myself, my wife. We may actually hire another trainer as well. Mitchell Okay. The other question on that is that there is a two-car garage attached to the structure? Hecker Correct. And that’s not included in those 20 spaces. We actually, if you use the overflow, we would have an additional three, so it would be 25. And, to alleviate any concerns of Mrs. Julovich with the Zumba classes of being 20+ people, we won’t have any one designated spot in the building that would house 20 people in a class-type setting. We don’t have a big enough space. I teach over in the Stonegate Community Center, and I wish I had brought those plans, I didn’t know this was an issue, but that place is at least twice the size of this room. I don’t know if anybody knows the square footage of this room. But, teaching a group with 20 people unless we’re staying all in one square which is a yoga class which is not what I intend to teach, we’re not going to fit them in there, running back and forth, throwing balls or doing various activities that people do in our classes. So, the 20 people in one class would not be an issue. I think that one of Page 10 of 20 Zionsville Plan Commission February 19, 2013 the things that we kind of tout ourselves for is all of our staff are degreed, all of our trainers, that is. All of our people get more one-on-one attention so you get that—a pet peeve of mine in the fitness industry is there’s not a lot of regulations on it, so you have a lot of these big business people who like, I don’t know want to name any names, but let’s say a big box gym that comes in and that rate the trainer so you get barely any quality of training. So, we don’t want that. We want to actually, you know, motivate people and teach them proper techniques, not just have them do an exercise because it looks cool in a magazine. We really strive to do that and it’s hard to do that with 20 people. Rachles Would you please reidentify yourself? Lulu This is Bruce Lulu again. I’ll be brief. The developer cannot do whatever they want. They are bound by the covenants in writing and there are certain things they can do according to committees that they staff. There is a 2007 Stonegate declaration for the professional business district which is where Mr. Hecker’s business would be located. The Carolina Grill is in a different business district and that has different rules, okay? In particular, Section 1.02 says, “On-site parking shall be provided.” Number 2, and this is for the business district, for the businesses, “No street parking on either side of West Stonegate Drive.” There are no restrictions for residents. You can park on the street. I think Mr. Hecker’s business is good. We would like to have it there but I just want to make sure that our concerns are balanced for people who live there and the adequate parking and that we don’t have a problem with the traffic in the mornings for the schools. And, on the 24-hour business in Section 3.01Q, the parking lot lights presumably that Mr. Hecker would provide for his parking lot, are required to be off from 10 p.m. at night to 6:30 in the morning during the week and they’re off 8 p.m. to 7:30 Saturday and Sunday. So, that would imply something about hours. But, the parking is really the concern. Rachles Mr. Lulu, what would you have us do? Lulu Well, you only have a certain, a certain amount of authority and I don’t know the full charter under which you operate. I’m taking Mr. Hecker at his word that parking won’t be a problem. The 24-hour issue as I understand is up to the Homeowners’ Association. Rachles Thanks. Hecker The statement that Mr. Lulu mentioned about them not being able to modify the CCRs is incorrect and here’s one modification, one example, that they did modify about street parking in the professional business district. I’m glad to pass this around. This gets filed at the time of closing on the lot. Would you all like me to pass this around or? Rachles Pass it around. If there are no other comments, Mr. DeLong, would you give us the staff report? Page 11 of 20 Zionsville Plan Commission February 19, 2013 DeLong Thank you. As indicated this evening, the request is to improve the site of 5,319 square foot two-story building located over a 2,230 square foot basement. The petition was first heard in November and continued to this meeting through the December meeting as a result of an indecisive vote. In the packet that you’ve received are elevations, proposed elevations of the building, the elevations have been reviewed by the Stonegate Architectural Review Committee and have received their approval. Staff is recommending approval of the petition. We have three conditions related to the landscaping plan and one is provided. The landscaping plan that is in the file is not current to the current layout as proposed. In essence, the uses that are requested which are a single-family dwelling and a fitness facility, are both permitted uses in the PB district and that’s based on the County’s code that the Town adopted and is part of Town’s ordinances. So, the uses themselves are permitted. Specific to the parking, the County’s parking regulations do not call out a fitness facility per se. It is the staff that identified the lodge as the most applicable parking standard that we could come up with. We simply took that number and doubled it and Mr. Hecker has provided even more, certainly based upon the previous testimony from the November meeting. Again, the staff is recommending approval subject to the three conditions as outlined in the staff report. I would be happy to answer any questions. Rachles Any questions for Mr. DeLong from the Commission? Okay. We are now open for discussion by the Commission as to this docket. Schiferl I think the last time there was a vote that was a tie. I was not here. I want to let everybody know I fully read the minutes of the November 13 meeting and Mr. Lulu’s comments made at that time along with Mr. Wishmire’s which they have largely repeated here and the comments of Julovich, Angelo Julovich, I think appeared last time. I think the comments as I read them then were addressed or have been addressed by the revisions that were made, particularly the parking aspect. I appreciate the point that was made about a small strip center we have here in town having 45 spots with a restaurant, a paint store and fitness facility, all being serviced by those 45 spots. I’m sure there are occasions they have maybe been full but it seems to be that the issue of parking may be a whole lot to do about nothing certainly and in the end, I think we should encourage the development of local businesses. I’m in favor of the petition. Rachles Other comments by members of the Commission? Parks In the last meeting, I was one of those that voted in opposition to it because of the parking issue. Just a couple of things that I would like to add into the record. Just this week, we saw in the local paper, I think it was this week. They are very, very behind about getting me my copy; I usually get it about a week later because it goes to Indianapolis in the post office. But, they were talking about Royal Run on the other side, the fact that during the wintertime, they couldn’t plow the roads because the parking on both sides of the street meant the plows could not go down the center. That’s one issue. By the way, the roads in Stonegate are built to the same standards because they are all county standards. They are all county standards that were in the ordinance that when we combined all of the townships, we adopted those standards. The second anecdotal thing that I picked up was Page 12 of 20 Zionsville Plan Commission February 19, 2013 over the weekend, I was talking to an individual who lives in Stonegate near the school and he says, whenever the school has an event, the parking is so bad on the streets that if you had to get an ambulance or a fire truck to the school, you couldn’t get there. Because the parking on both sides makes the street too narrow to be able to get any kind of emergency vehicles to where you need to go. That is an issue that I have raised with town officials. I know because of the article in the paper they are looking at that issue and the possibility of some ordinances, depending on, there is a question as to who has jurisdiction—is it still the County or it is now the Town? But, that will be resolved, too. I really appreciate the changes in the plan, the fact that you have increased the parking by about 50 percent from the last time we looked at it. I think this is a very laudatory work on your part. I would ask that you, given some of the things that you’ve just talked about, if you would agree to a condition that you would limit class size to the number of parking places that you have at this present moment, then I would move forward with a motion. Schiferl So, what you’re encouraging is people not to carpool. I mean, so, in other words, if two people come in one car, you can’t have 30 people? Seems to be non- economical to me. Parks Well, I’m, you, okay. Schiferl I understand your intent but if you’re going to limit so you could have only one person per car? Parks I would limit it, well, what I’m trying to get at, I’m trying to get the cars off the street. Jones I’ve got another couple of questions, if you’re done, Jay. Are you finished? Parks Yeah. Jones There’s a 15-foot ingress/egress parking easement on Lot 107. Has that easement been created? Is it part of your package or do you own or have an agreement to purchase Lot 107? I guess my first question is regarding that. What’s going on there? Hecker There’s an ingress, you mean the road going in on 107? Is that what you’re referring to? It is a shared drive that is considered an easement. The plat has been filed and we, it’s part of the package, so it maximizes the space that we do have and, if I’m not mistaken, well, I don’t know if anybody has heard the rumors, but right now, there’s a developer who has a purchase agreement for Lots 106 and 107. They are looking to put up roughly a 10,000 square foot building to house numerous parking spaces but I don’t know if we can use them or not, but our busy times would be the times they would be closed. Jones Let me ask this question. There is an easement agreement as part of your development that is intended to be signed? Page 13 of 20 Zionsville Plan Commission February 19, 2013 Hecker Yes, sir. Jones My second question and this and even to go back and answer the statement about the frustration that you’ve been experiencing, our process is not one about creating frustration, it’s about creating a certain quality in how all projects are reviewed. My primary concern is that this is a commercial use and it appears that you do not have a licensed architect preparing drawings for you currently, is that correct? Hecker We do have a licensed architect doing the drawings. Jones Okay, then my second concern is that the elevations and floor plans that you supplied me, at least in my experience, are going to have to substantially change when they go to state review, primarily ADA with clearances around ingress/egress doors, you know in and out of the property, restroom sizes, showers. Whether or not you’re going to be able to exit the exercise room through that stairwell out to the side door. My concern is that whatever we approve or do not approve tonight, at some point, it’s going to substantially change before you’re able to pull a permit in the Town of Zionsville because you’re going to need to get a state release as part of the process and that’s, I don’t like the idea of putting our building inspector and Ed Mitro in the hot seat of you’ve got one set of approved drawings from us but you’re submitting a second set of drawings to him for a permit. I don’t know what the and those are a few of the items I see. I mean, I can even question, a wood frame floor system in a commercial building is going to put you 20-odd inches above grade unless you’re going to put your wood framing below the soil and that’s your choice. They’re ways of doing it, but— Schiferl I appreciate your concerns but we’re in a development plan approval process. I mean if we’re going to break it down and want everything all together, we need to change our rules. You’re asking for things that aren’t required right now. Jones I’m asking to make sure that the drawings I approve are somewhat going to be the building that’s gonna get built. And, from looking through these, I see substantial reasons why it’s going to get altered. Substantially going to alter how it’s going to operate, like I said, the ADA ramp is going to affect his parking, his grades, his access to the building. Hecker Are you asking for me to answer, sir or are you--? Jones I think it’s just— Schiferl The reason I raised it is that I think it’s unanswerable, I mean, we’re asking the petitioner to do more than what the law requires to be done. I’m troubled by that. Jones No, the law, well, the process of getting a commercial, a structure that’s used for commercial purposes approved requires an architect’s stamp and a state release. And at the state release, they are going to check for the things I mentioned. Page 14 of 20 Zionsville Plan Commission February 19, 2013 Schiferl I don’t disagree with you. I wholly agree with you but at this stage of the proceedings, when it’s a development plan approval, that’s not before us. That’s not an issue that we can consider under the seven things that I understand that we’re asked to address. I’m just trying to—why is that germane to our decision tonight? Jones It’s germane to me, at least, in my opinion because the drawings that will eventually come back through for permitting are going to be different than what we are seeing tonight, substantially. Schiferl They may be. I think that’s true a lot but that isn’t for us to decide. Rachles Any other comments from the Commission? Mitchell Mr. Chair, I would say that I was also one that voted against this proposal last time primarily on the parking concerns and I feel like the petitioner has made an effort of working with staff and recognizing the concerns of the community and that of this Board in making his changes to and increasing the number of parking positions up to 22 total spaces and therefore, I’m in favor of it. Rachles Okay. Any other comments? Do I have a motion? Mitchell I move that Docket 2012-14-DP Development Plan approval for site improvement associated with 6828 W. Stonegate Drive Lot 108 and a portion of Lot 107 be approved with conditions noted in the staff report based on the findings of fact in the staff report as presented. Rachles Is there a second? Haynes Second. Rachles I think we’ll take a roll call vote on this. DeLong Mr. Franz? Franz Yes. DeLong Mr. Haynes? Haynes Yes. DeLong Mr. Jones? Jones No. DeLong Mr. Mitchell? Mitchell Yes. Page 15 of 20 Zionsville Plan Commission February 19, 2013 DeLong Mr. Parks? Parks Yes. DeLong Mr. Rachles? Rachles Yes? DeLong Mr. Schiferl? Schiferl Yes. Rachles Okay, the vote is 6 to 1 for approval of this. I thank all of you for participating in this. We have one other item of new business. Docket Number 2013-01-DP N. Noell 75 N. Main Street. This is an expansion of an existing deck to 1) support an 11 x 7 and 6 x 9.5 freezer/walk-in cooler. Also, relocate steps associated with the deck. Will the representative for N. Noel, please come forward? State your name and address. Then, I have a question. Prowdy My name is Jay Prowdy. I live at 7401 Countrybrook Drive in Indianapolis. Rachles Okay. I believe that this application was filed and I want to make sure, I believe there are three entities that are Ms. Noel and I want to make sure that the application that was filed is the appropriate entity for ownership of that building and, if not, we need to adjust that. Prowdy Certainly, sir. Then, the question would be whom are we filing under? Rachles That’s the question. Prowdy That would be Noel Realty. Rachles Pardon me? Prowdy Noel Realty is the property owner. Rachles Will you make note of that? Let the record show that. DeLong Yes. Yes. Rachles You may proceed with your presentation. Prowdy Well, essentially, I just, I’m here to petition to like you said, extend the existing deck in the exterior of the building to accommodate a freezer. We will not be taking up any green space. There was an existing freezer on the premises where the deck will be covering and then on the other side where we will be doing the expanding, it’s covered with gravel. We will also be moving the steps from the northern corner and putting them on the east side. This will not take up any Page 16 of 20 Zionsville Plan Commission February 19, 2013 additional space as far as parking goes. We have six spaces in the rear of the building and there still will be adequate parking for six vehicles. Rachles And, what will the freezer be used for? Prowdy We will be using it to store produce. It’s not just a freezer. It’s a walk-in and a cooler. So, the rear is the cooler. So, we will be putting gelato, ice cream, things like that in the rear and then it will be fresh produce in the freezer. Essentially, there was a walk-in cooler that was inside The Sanctuary and it just took up a lot of space. We had always had a third party come in and do our catering and all of the cooking for The Sanctuary and by putting that cooler outside it allows us to expand our kitchen and do all of the production of the food organically inside the building. Rachles The food that is served there, that comes through a concession? Prowdy Well, it’s essentially, in the years past, Nancy Noel has always had restauranteurs in the building. The last one whom I worked for. His name was Ghyslain and he had a production facility in Richmond, Indiana and essentially, he would make deliveries three times a week. He had a small cooler inside and the gentleman that worked there would heat the food, plate it and then we would deliver it to the guests. After September, Nancy and Ghyslain parted ways and we brought in our own chef and we started making everything from scratch in the kitchen and we just discovered the hardships of the limited space that we had. We decided that we were going to expand the kitchen and we contacted several firms and C&T Construction who we decided to go with brought forth the plan to put the cooler on the exterior of the building. The freezer previously was outside. It freed up a lot of space in the kitchen and allowed us to put equipment that was essential for what we wanted to do in the restaurant inside the building and it basically, putting, expanding the deck. The deck that is there now, we’re not going to demolish it. We’re going to reinforce and then we’re going to just expand on both sides so we can accommodate the freezer and the walk-in. Rachles Questions from members of the public? Staff report? DeLong Staff is recommending approval of the petition as filed. As noted, it’s a very minor addition of 32 square feet give or take as proposed is to be added to the rear deck. The rear deck after its expansion will also have its steps readjusted to face, instead of facing to the north, they will face to the east. We do note, in the staff report we talked about, an encroachment into a sewer easement. That sewer easement while it appears on the site plan and in speaking with our sewer utility, our sewer utility indicates that sewer easement does not exist. So, if it is an issue, we can work through it. If it’s not an issue, even better. Again, staff is recommending approval of the petition as filed. I would be happy to answer any questions. Rachles Any comments by members of the Commission as to this docket? Jones I got a couple. Page 17 of 20 Zionsville Plan Commission February 19, 2013 Rachles Okay. Jones Good to hear you’re not going to demolish that deck. I do hope you strip the decking off it, 2 x 8s, all the lag bolts and have a substantial amount of support underneath it to hold this up. This seems to be taking space that use to house the dumpster and currently the dumpster is sitting open in the lot. Do we not have standards for keeping commercial dumpsters enclosed? DeLong Yes, commercial dumpsters, anything over 3 cubic feet, just knowing that number off hand, is required to be enclosed with a gate. Jones So, is there a reason we don’t have that included as part of the process for this approval? DeLong No, it’s assumed that they would make that correction and would be dealt with at the building permit stage. But, that is certainly something good to note tonight and discuss. Jones Second question is we’ve got a residential home, I think that’s been approved on an adjoining parcel and I saw the cooler that went up with Sugar Pie around the--. I would still like to make a recommendation that we request some sort of screening for these just to try to get a little bit of control over the equipment that’s ending up in the alleys and around the buildings. Because these buildings are visible and used on all four sides. So. Rachles Is your client amenable to any kind of screening or have you discussed that? Prowdy We have not discussed that, but I could open up to that discussion with Nancy Noel. Rachles What do you mean by open up? Prowdy I can ask her if she wants, if that’s what it takes. I mean, we’re willing to do what it takes in order to appease everyone. We want to do the right thing. I know one neighbor did come to the town planning office and asked if we were going to put a fence up or asked how high the freezer was going to set [sit] off the deck. With the deck and the freezer, we’re looking at 11 feet from the ground would be the top, 11’1” approximately. Rachles Would you like to ask your client now? Prowdy Could we put a fence around the freezer if it’s required? Noel ? Rachles How much time do you need? Noel Oh, about 12 months. Page 18 of 20 Zionsville Plan Commission February 19, 2013 Rachles Let’s have other members of the Commission weigh in on that? Noel ?? Rachles Could you come up and talk and identify yourself? Name and address. Noel My name and address? I’m Nancy Noel. I reside at 6814 W. 96th Street in Zionsville. I was just saying with the church, it seems like every time I do one thing, another thing appears and it’s been extremely difficult. I’m trying to do the best thing for Zionsville and I think everyone loves The Sanctuary. I don’t know whether you’ve been to The Sanctuary but we’ve gotten a lot of wonderful comments about it and a lot of thank yous for having it there but it’s been, you know, it’s been difficult financially. But, I’d be glad to put up a fence but I’d love it if you’d give me some time to do that. Rachles Thank you. Any other comments? Mitchell My only comment regarding the fence. Again, if we want fences around these things, we should put that in our regulations. I mean, there is a house going up behind it. They’re moving into a resi—urban little area there. We have let other people put in these type of outside cooling containers without requiring them to put up fences so if we want fences, let’s put it into our regulations. I don’t see why putting the burden on somebody midstream is appropriate. Rachles I agree with that. When we voted on My Sugar Pie, I didn’t ask for fence or screens to be put up, so. I’m open to a motion on this docket. Mitchell I move that Docket 2013-01-DP Development Plan approval for site improvements associated with 75 N. Main Street be approved based on the findings of fact in the staff report as presented. Parks Second. Rachles Any discussion? All those in favor, aye? All Aye. Rachles Opposed? Hearing none, your petition is granted. Good luck. Prowdy Thank you. Rachles If there’s no other business at this time. I will take a motion for adjournment. Parks So moved. Rachles All those in favor, aye? All Aye. Page 19 of 20 Zionsville Plan Commission February 19, 2013 Rachles Opposed? The meeting is now adjourned. Page 20 of 20