Historic Preservation & Architectural Review Board Agendas and Minutes

MINUTES OF THE COHOES HISTORIC PRESERVATION AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD MEETING HELD AT 97 MOHAWK STREET COHOES, NY ON TUESDAY, September 21, 2021, 2021 AT 6:30PM MEMBERS PRESENT: Daniele Cherniak, Chairperson Barbara Hildreth, Vice Chair Thomas Rifenberg John Frainier Evan Lamb MEMBERS ABSENT: None ALSO PRESENT: Sharon Butler, Administrative Assistant Chairperson Cherniak called the meeting of the Historic Preservation and Architectural Review Board to order at 6:30PM. CONSIDERATION OF THE MINUTES FROM THE SEPTEMBER 8, 2021 MEETING Chairperson Cherniak: the first item on our agenda is consideration of the September 8, 2021 meeting minutes. Have board members had a chance to take a look at the minutes? Do I have a motion to accept the minutes? Member Rifenberg; I’ll make the motion Member Lamb; I’ll 2nd All in favor; Aye Motion carried YES NO ABSTAIN Daniele Cherniak X Barbara Hildreth X Thomas Rifenberg X Evan Lamb X John Frainier X CONSIDERATION OF A MURAL PAINTING AT 289 ONTARIO STREET Chairperson Cherniak: next on the agenda is consideration of the mural at 289 Ontario Street. Kristen Holler from Albany Barn; I think the main point that I would like to make is if you look at the 2nd page in the packet, it’s really meant to be a representation of probably more so of the scale and like density of the imagery in the mural, but this is not necessarily 100% final product of what this mural would look like. So far I’ve heard that you would like an image of Silliman church incorporated, so we could certainly provide that feedback and have that done. The artist does not do mock-ups and so the manipulation of the images in the digital space is not necessarily the strong suite, but I do provide to you a link to the artist website for his projects, there are a number of projects that fall into this style of work. The basic point here is that the buildings and people would be put together to create a city that is simultaneously representative of Cohoes but not Cohoes as it is. So you’re not going to see buildings that are next to each other necessarily you might see imagery of buildings or people that are from different time periods, that are put into this photo collage if you will, in ways that will make it look like a single image and again the artist is highly skilled on doing that on a wall and not so digitally, but did create this mock-up for the purposes of letting you see just what that could look like. But I think you’re much better off looking at the images of his completed work because this is certainly not what I anticipate you would be looking at on the wall across the street. Again this is an artist with a lengthy portfolio with doing murals in this style that have come out very well, very cohesive and you would be hard pressed to figure out that there not actually just a painting of a single image on a wall, but are actually collaged that way. I think the feedback that we’re looking for would be if there are deal breakers, we want this included we don’t want this included, that’s important to know but I do caution design by a committee can get a little out of hand, so I would say if there is a single focus on Silliman’s church being that building that you want included, I think that is very doable, but if you start saying we have to include Silliman church on the wall and this specific lamp post, that can become a much bigger challenge for the artist to figure out how to make that look cohesive, and still be his voice and vision, sort of in combination with what you all are looking for. But we specifically chose this artist because he does have a great deal of experience and we know this is kind of the first type of project like this here and we feel very confident that you would be very happy with the final result and it would read well with anybody that would pass and see it. Questions? Vice Chair Hildreth; I only have one concern; we get a lot of snow so maybe this painting needs to move up a little bit because I don’t want the snow against the wall Kristen; sure. So we would seal the painting with a UV protectant and a clear coat to make it easy to clean if it needed to be cleaned and it would protect the paint underneath. We would use super high quality paint that was made for the specific surface type. In general we are in upstate New York so that might not be the final placement and we can give feedback that maybe more negative space in the fore ground makes sense. Member Rifenberg; I agree and to expand on that I wasn’t a big fan, I know it’s just a mock-up, but to just throw the Mills on top, it is really good City scape up til here then this is all kind of….. Kristen; you’re looking at orientation of people who are not…..to move those down, I’ve been working with him through this process and when you mitigate the image digitally you’re removing the background so that’s going to start layering them on top of each other, I’m not a photo shop expert, so this is just meant to be these are the elements and the amount of space on the wall that would be taken up, but the perspective is not 100% and the proportion of things is definitely not 100% Member Rifenberg; I know, just looking at it, it’s flat across and it’s higher than some of the samples that we had so that’s what I was concerned about if we do a collage sort of deal that it would just layer on top of each other rather than a broad across kind of thing Kristen; I don’t think in the final product you would get that because eventually what will happen is he will have likely pieces of those images and project them like in real time, like together. This here in the lower section is meant to look like if you’re standing on the street, so if there is a concern for the black and white imagery being too close to the ground for snow, then you just move all of that. Member Rifenberg; the only other thing that I would throw out there, I’m really a big fan of that photo with the kids, but my concern would be to just have it be a more diverse group. Kristen; the images will be black and white so I don’t think you’re necessarily going to get that in the translation of it. I do know that Sampson’s intention was for it to be oversized, because he did want that to stand out. Steve Napier; I don’t want to be contrary I actually, the people in the image I don’t know, from my perspective that the image of the people that are there, I don’t know that that tells the, adds to, telling the story of Cohoes right? Like the, it’s not, I’m a member of the Rotary, it’s not as if the Rotary is like the central organization of this community. Theresa Bourgeois; what was the purpose of that image can you give us a background Kristen; I don’t know, I do know that Sampson said specifically that the car and the people were intentionally oversized, so as to emphasize them. So if I had to guess it’s a matter of bringing some energy and movement into the piece because most of the rest of it is static Steve Napier; one thing that I saw when I saw the people is that if I were to tell the story of the history of Cohoes to people it would be our immigrant mill workers that is the basis that built this community so I looked it up and this is the best picture I have (gave it to Kristen) that is actually a picture of the immigrant workers in the Cohoes Mills and I think that if you’re painting from a picture like that you can take it and make some of those people female, and have it represent that sort of thing to me the Rotary flag does not tell our story but the image of Mill workers in the mill with that background sort of included in it that tells the story of Cohoes a lot better. Member Rifenberg; I came across a mill worker, I think it was a worker tag or something and it had an amazing little image on it, I’ll have to try to find it and maybe that could somehow be incorporated Steve Napier; I would like to see that. Sorry I came in late, I’m in the middle of a Zoom class that I went AWOL on so I’m just trying to get my comments in. I think that it would be really, really good to for the main picture in this is the old Cohoes Hotel that burned down in 1948, I think that’s a fine thing to include, I wouldn’t make that the center piece of this and if it were me, probably the Harmony Mills would fit in nicely with the mill workers or Silliman Church which was once on this spot, I brought a picture of Silliman church, I would consider and the only other thing to add is that if you’re looking at, is the Canals is an important piece as well. Kristen; do you have digital images of these photos Steve Napier; I have digitals of all of them, can you email me and I can incorporate them. My main concern is that, I know I addressed it a little bit but I want to reiterate it, is my biggest concern here and I’ve talked to the Mayor and he shares that concern is that this is really, really busy looking and that’s not what most of Sampson’s stuff looks like but to me this is like overkill, it’s too much Vice Chair Hildreth; I think it’s great, I like it Steve Napier; ok everybody has a different opinion on art, but that is my opinion and the Mayor asked that I share his as well. Theresa Bourgeois; asked questions (couldn’t make out what was being asked) Kristen; explained the process of sending images to Sampson and what was picked, but there is some openness to if there are specific land marks or things you would like included again it could get really difficult, having people included inside the mills and we want to see the falls and we want to see the Canal, because at the end of the day the goal is make it look like it could have been one cohesive piece. So if there is a landmark, a building, an element that everybody, that there is some consensus that this is a critical piece, and I think the church makes a ton of sense because it was literally in that spot, but not my decision to make, that’s a very easy thing for me to say to Sampson this is a make or break that needs to be included to be a kind of center piece, focal point again doing all of the things becomes a challenge, if we were to use this image of the mill workers, my guess is they would not be in the background of the interior of the mill, they would be somewhere outside on street interacting, with a different building and I think that still tells the story because mill workers were not just in the mills they went out in the town, shopped and did all the other things. Theresa Bourgeois; asked if there was a statement that the artist was trying to make Kristen; I don’t know necessarily about a specific statement but the question I can ask certainly. There is a statement from the artist I believe on the first page of the packet. And she explained some of Sampson’s work that has been done in the past. Debbie Jacques; what is the game plan from here, I don’t think that we are going to get something that we’re going to actually approve. This concept and the artist is going to do what the artist wants to do Kristen; I can ask again, there’s no reason that Sampson would have any objection again to like we want Silliman church included I think that can be done, but again to get everything 100% of what you want, I don’t think that is going to happen with this artist in particular. We like his style of work and you can review his body of work and say yeah that feels like something that you would be happy to have in our town, I think you will be very happy with the outcome but there is little bit of wiggle space that has to happen here and again you can put some perimeters on it, it just gets very difficult when everyone has a different opinion on what that one landmark is, so I don’t know if there is consensus on that. I’m certainly happy to share the feedback and I know Sampson considers the work that he does, particularly these types of projects to be for the community of where they are, so he’s actually more open than a lot of artist are and listening to what people want to see and how people feel about what they are looking at. So again I think I can incorporate some feedback and go back to the drawing board ultimately it’s going to happen outside in the middle of the night with a projector on the wall. Debbie Jacques; so what’s the boards role in this, only because we’re already at the end of September and we want to get this started by October Kristen; October 10th is our goal Chairperson Cherniak; so is the board members ok with the concept with including Silliman church Member Frainier; including the concept with Silliman and the mill workers and having faith that he’ll proportionalize the rest of it. Member Lamb; given the feedback from the community and his previous work, he has a lot of experience in this and confidence, it does seem like a very good shot at getting something…… Kristen; we’re very confident in Sampson, but Tony and I will not let a project commence if we are not totally on board. It can be rough to look at something and go we don’t want this on the wall, because you have to get in your mind to visualize it and it’s hard to do that if you’re not a visual or artistic person, I’m not an artist myself but specifically we did. Member Rifenberg; was there anything like any tours or anything to get a better feel for any of the landmarks in the area Kristen; I did give him, Daniele, your contact information and I imagine he will reach out at some point before beginning. We were able to catch him at a time when he’s not traveling and doing a bunch of other things and we’re pretty near the end of the season, so we need to get something together to show you guys. Chairperson Cherniak; and I do a have a large image archive that I could show him Kristen; again you gave him Silliman church and you gave him 6 images of Silliman church one of them he would make work and it would still be his vision and style but incorporate the things that you all want to see so you can feel like this doesn’t just represent the past of Cohoes but is something that everyone can gravitate towards and enjoy. Debbie Jacques; is the background going to be blue like this? I know that’s a big white building Kristen; that’s an image of, it’s an actual image of the wall so the color that it appears that blue is just a whatever was the color ……………..(to many people talking at the same time) Debbie Jacques: I’m going to be the only one to see it every day all day long, out my window and there’s that wall. Kristen; so the negative space in a lot of those images will be the color of the wall that it is currently so that’s probably just a shadow or the time of day it was taken kind of making it look blue. Because the wall is already conditioned and primed we probably won’t roll another color over top. Debbie Jacques; so what we’re looking at, we really don’t want the images of the kids, we’d rather see mill workers, is that right? Member Frainier; yes Kristen; so the thing is to, is that Sampson could tell you why he selected certain images but unless you are going to write it on a plaque and put it on the wall, people are going to interpret the images of what they are and what they represent in their own way. Member Rifenberg; what was the thing, the QR code was it going to go to specific history or was it going to go to his statement Kristen; so I’m not sure about what specifically, certainly there are opportunities and we have seen other murals that will incorporate a QR code for a link to a, an Instagram handle for an account that’s about tourism or here’s what the buildings are. That is something that would be up to you all if you wanted to do that, include a placard with a QR code and it goes to the City’s website or heritage tourism to talk about what these landmarks are. That would not be necessarily Sampson’s wheelhouse or ours although we could give you samples of other cases that have been done. Chairperson Cherniak; are there any other questions or comments from the board. Do we have to make any motion or recommendation from the board? Sharon; I guess you could do a motion to accept the concept of what’s being done with the painting, including Silliman’s church and the mill workers. Chairperson Cherniak; ok, so does someone want to make a motion Member Rifenberg; I’ll make a motion to approve the concept Member Lamb; I’ll 2nd all in favor AYE motion carried YES NO ABSTAIN Daniele Cherniak X Barbara Hildreth X Thomas Rifenberg X Evan Lamb X John Frainier X CONSIDERATION OF EXTERIOR RENOVATIONS INCLUDING PAINTING, WINDOWS, AWNING AT 239 REMSEN STREET Chairperson Cherniak; next item on the agenda is 239 Remsen Street, Mr. Russell you want to explain a little bit about what you’re doing? Don Russell; sure, so I have color pictures but you guys have. Vice Chair Hildreth; we have color pictures Mr. Russell; ok this is for basically for the exterior of this building. Vice Chair Hildreth; what is it going to be used for? Mr. Russell; apartments and a supermarket Vice Chair Hildreth; apartments upstairs and supermarket downstairs Mr. Russell; yes and apartments upstairs and in the back because this building goes all the way back to the alley and wraps around—two up top and three in the back, the entire showroom and then about a third of the downstairs will be market. The market will be about 3,000 sq. ft. the building in total is about 12,000 sq. ft. There was a discussion on what opened on the corner of Columbia and Remsen—as it looks like a store, there is no sign. Mr. Russell stated that he thought the application for whatever was going to go there was denied because there is a parking issue. Mr. Russell; on the 2nd floor the windows that go across there, the 6 crank out windows would be replaced with 2 sliders basically from the outside, there will be 2 sliders and then it would get blocked off in the middle Chairperson Cherniak; can you do, that configuration of window is definitely not original to the building and Mr. Russell; there’s actually sliders, if you look at the side of the building, if you look at the picture that window on the side of the building is a slider as well. Chairperson Cherniak; but this is, the 2nd floor façade has obviously been extensively altered in its history and I was just wondering if there is any way to bring it back to more toward traditional look rather than do side sliders do a one on one window instead. Mr. Russell; you mean up and down instead? Chairperson Cherniak; yes. Mr. Russell; yea we could do that, I think the slider is going to look better than up/down though in this particular aspect though because the 2 picture windows on the end are staying Chairperson Cherniak; I guess I would disagree with that, but that’s just my opinion. I’m saying those are not typical windows that you would see on the historic downtown, and I think the one over one would be more typical that you would see despite the fact that you have these 2 picture windows on the side. I don’t know what the other board members think about that. Member Frainier; are these wooden framed windows or vinyl clad? Mr. Russell; the new ones are vinyl Member Rifenberg; the upstairs is going to be apartments? Mr. Russell; 2-2 apartments Member Rifenberg; right at the front then? Mr. Russell; one in the front and one is in the back Member Rifenberg; hopefully they get good curtains, those sliders, I know there’s this little bit of rotted wood here are they going to go top to bottom here? Mr. Russell; yes top to bottom and all wood that is rotted will be replaced with wood Member Rifenberg; so that will be replaced then? Mr. Russell; yes that bottom will be Member Rifenberg; so it’s going to be the same then? Mr. Russell; yes, window takes up basically the same amount except these 2 middle windows, that piece down the middle becomes 10 inches wide Member Rifenberg; 10 inches wider? Mr. Russell; wide, it does become wider right now it’s about 4 inches wide, that bottom sill gets replaced, across the front where Miron sign is, that siding get pulled off some of that is rotted which will get replaced. That wood you won’t see in the future because, well you can see a pole from an awning, our intention would be to put a permanent awning similar to what you see at the Daisy or Cascade across the entire front Chairperson Cherniak; will that be a fabric awning? Mr. Russell; yes one complete fabric awning Member Rifenberg; and where will the sign be, I know you said something about a sign Mr. Russell; so the sign would be along here (shown on pictures) Member Rifenberg; will it be sticking out Mr. Russell; it will be like the one at Anthony’s Member Rifenberg; refresh my memory Mr. Russell; oval Member Rifenberg; ok Chairperson Cherniak; so that large vertical sign Mr. Russell; yes basically on this top portion here (shown on pictures) There’s enough space the picture doesn’t do it justice but there’s enough space. Chairperson Cherniak; why are you choosing a sign like that instead of a hanging sign Mr. Russell; because you won’t see it with the permanent awning and because of the size of the building. And then the door, Miron’s had changed the door, you can see the hinges on the outside of the door they changed that around who knows when, so they could get carpet the 15 foot rolls in at an angle so we’ll be changing that back around. The door is original and the frame is original to when that store front was put in, but that door actually swung in so we’ll be changing that back to outward. The door will actually get dropped down about 31/2” so that top piece above the door that is glass will get extended because we are going to put an interior ramp into the building so that becomes handicap accessible. Member Rifenberg; same style door going back? Mr. Russell; same door, at least our intention is the same exact door unless something crazy happens. We had Able glass look at it already we showed how it attached originally on the other side and he didn’t think there would be any major problems. And then I had sent a list of all the colors. The whole building will get painted front and back all the way back to the alley. Majority of the building will be this tan color here (shown on picture with colors) which that is the color it is now it just hasn’t been painted in a long time. But then all the other colors will be used in the crown molding across the top, the brick is going to get painted Vice Chair Hildreth; you’re going to paint the brick? Mr. Russell; yes obviously all around the windows will get painted Member Rifenberg; now when you say paint the brick you mean the whole thing? Mr. Russell; the whole thing Chairperson Cherniak; why Mr. Russell; its ugly there’s two, actually 3 different style of bricks on there, so it doesn’t match up Vice Chair Hildreth; what color are you painting it? Mr. Russell; showed the members on the color sheet. All the colors are off the Historic Color Chart. Vice Chair Hildreth; is the brick going to be painted down to the stone? Mr. Russell; in my pictures, I don’t see that, you guys actually have better pictures. Brick is going to be Buff that is what the majority of the building will be on the front is that white buff with…. Member Rifenberg; it’s going to be consistent with the building next to it? Mr. Russell; correct and then the dentinal is going to be that white buff and the bronze and the crown molding is bronze and then the trim work is pewter tankard it’s a blueish color. Member Frainier; so the window exterior will be the vinyl not the pewter tankard trim? Mr. Russell; yes. The wood is just rotted it just not conducive in upstate New York Vice Chair Hildreth; you’re going to have how many apartments in this building? Mr. Russell; 5 Vice Chair Hildreth; where are people going to park their cars? Mr. Russell; the front people will be on the street, the Rizzo’s actually own the lot next their building and their going to allow us to stone it for those 3 back apartments Chairperson Cherniak; do you have an image of the sign? Mr. Russell; I don’t yet because I don’t have the name of the market yet Chairperson Cherniak; you’ll have to come back then Mr. Russell; the sign will be done by Vital Signs Chairperson Cherniak; you’ll still have to come back once you have the sign for approval Mr. Russell; yes I’ll come back once I have the name and Vital Signs gives me a mock up like they did for Anthony’s and I’ll come back with the color scheme Member Frainier; and the awning will be the full width of the building? Mr. Russell; yup Member Frainier; how far out? Mr. Russell; probably 36 inches. Our intention is along the front here like an old school market, you would have in spring have baskets of apples and things like that so you’ll be able to utilize that and I want to say that that is how far out the Daisy’s awning comes out as well. Member Rifenberg; color of the awning is grey Mr. Russell; yes charcoal grey Chairperson Cherniak; any other questions from any of the board members? Member Rifenberg; I think we hit everything, we got windows, we got paint, we got the door change, we got a sign, we got the awning Member Frainier; we don’t have anything specific yet on the sign Chairperson Cherniak; do I have a motion to approve the parts of the project; windows, door, painting, everything except the sign? Member Lamb; I’ll make a motion Member Rifenberg; I’ll 2nd it Member Frainier; we’re approving the awning Member Rifenberg; everything except the sign Chairperson Cherniak; do you need more information about the awning? Member Frainier; there’s nothing specific in the package Member Rifenberg; do you want him to come back for the awning at the same time he comes back for the sign when he has more detail; size wise everything 100% Chairperson Cherniak; ok if the members want to do that we can approve everything else except the sign and the awning and you’ll have to come back for that. Mr. Russell; the awning is going to be this whole width here (shown on picture of building) where you see that wood that is going to be the awning which you can see where the awning originally was. We’re just going to be raising it up and I’m assuming standard is 36 or 40 inches out off of the building Chairperson Cherniak; so is that sufficient explanation John or do you want to see something else? Sharon; and it’s going to be fabric which is acceptable correct? Member Frainier; ok yes Chairperson Cherniak; and the color is going to be charcoal grey. So if that’s enough information… Member Frainier; so we’re holding off on the sign Chairperson Cherniak; yes we’re holding off on the sign, but everything else is ok All in favor; AYE, motion carried YES NO ABSTAIN Daniele Cherniak X Barbara Hildreth X Thomas Rifenberg X Evan Lamb X John Frainier X CONSIDERATION OF SIGN BRACKET FOR A HANGING SIGN AT 109 REMSEN STREET Chairperson Cherniak; ok last item on the agenda is 109 Remsen Street for the bracket for the hanging sign. There’s a picture of the bracket and if that look ok to everyone Vice Chair Hildreth; what color is it Sharon; it’s going to be black Chairperson Cherniak; so do I have a motion to approve Member Rifenberg; I’ll make the motion Member Frainier; I 2nd All in favor AYE motion carried YES NO ABSTAIN Daniele Cherniak X Barbara Hildreth X Thomas Rifenberg X Evan Lamb X John Frainier X With no other business to discuss Chairperson Cherniak adjourned the meeting at 7:12PM